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19860910GRJHNLSAS2

0:00:05.2 DT

0:01:41.8 Spiritually speaking, when you understand this emptiness and selflessness, then out of the five paths you are on the third path. That is the seeing path. Only then you understand. That is quite a high level. The moment you understand that nature of emptiness you are called “Arya”, a special person. So even if you don’t understand anything tonight, you have a rough idea and that’s good enough. If you don’t understand it in detail, you don’t have to feel bad, because that understanding is only possible at the level of Aryas, the third stage of the path. Then you become a special person. The division between ordinary and special person is on whether you have seen the nature of the truth or not.

0:02:35.5 In absolute reality the person doesn’t exist. I tried to show you the best and quickest way, through the dependent arising. If you depend on a walking stick it is clear sign that you cannot walk. Similarly, when you arise through dependence it is the sign that you don’t exist by true nature. This is the best and easiest way to show this and that’s what I have done. But that is not the beginning of Buddhism at all, it is almost the last step. But also, it is necessary. If you don’t have that, then that’s the difference. I won’t name them, but some spiritual practices have a fall back. Some practices have no fall back.

Chö kyi den pai jin du wa

Sam ten ngö shi ma to wa

Dü chi me pe sag yen tu

Si ma ta le thob par gyur (spelling??? 0:03:44.9)

There are special spiritual practices where you sit and concentrate and develop tranquility, harmony and all this and you get into levels that are higher and higher. There are four form realms, four formless realms up to the 17th level you can go, layer after layer up to the ultimate top. That is sometimes referred to as dü she me, feeling-less, yet not without feeling. It is almost without feeling. You can go up to that level. But even then you will fall back. Why? Because the root of ignorance is not cut. This emptiness has not been practiced. So the understanding of emptiness makes you not fall back. This is the key where falling back has been stopped by emptiness. Therefore, it is important, however, not so much in the beginning, not at our level. So that’s it.

0:05:22.2 DT

Questions and Answers:

0:08:09.8 Audience: Is there a correlation between ignorance and innocence?

Rimpoche: Innocence? I don’t think innocence is ignorance at all. Actually, don’t ask me, it is a language thing. I told you I don’t know English at all. But innocence does not harm the person at all, nor does it create any problems or delusions within the person. So I think there is a big difference.

Audience: inaudible

Rimpoche: Normally, you understand first, get some kind of understanding, then think about it, then concentrate and then you will see. That is the normal procedure. I don’t think there will be some extraordinary way where you get before you know that you get it. I have been asked some interesting questions. Sometimes people ask me, “Do you think I am enlightened?” Then I ask them back, “Do you know if you are enlightened?” But the thing really is I don’t think you can have any experience before you know what it is about. So all the spiritual development – and that is important – there is no instant spiritual development at all.

0:11:24.8 If there is instant spiritual development, then naturally you will experience it before you know. But when that is not there you have learn first, think second and meditate third, and then experience. I think this is the procedure how it develops. Thank you

0:12:00.3 Audience: inaudible

0:12:14.0 Rimpoche: The Dalai Lama is a manifestation – no, that’s not right, he is a reincarnation of Avalokitesvara. Now, from the absolute truth point of view Avalokiteshvara is a totally enlightened person. Now the question of the Tibetan reincarnate lamas: that is the same principle. It applies to all reincarnated lamas. That principle is that the person in his true reality is the manifestation of whatever or whoever, like Avalokitesvara, Manjushri, Maitreya and so on. So everybody claims to be the reincarnation of Avalokitesvara, Manjushri, Maitreya and so on. Everything is there. That’s the absolute reality, if it is a reincarnation. Yes, an absolutely enlightened person. But that person has appeared in this world as one of the human beings. So he has to function as an ordinary human being. Therefore, even the Dalai Lama went through with his learning, his studying, his teaching, meditation, retreats and so forth. That’s how it functions. In absolute reality the person is enlightened. But on the relative level he has to function as a relative [being].

0:14:35.8 He cannot function as a supernatural being. On the other hand, the absolute influence comes into the relative, a little bit here and there, here and there. However, in basic principle he has to function as an ordinary human being. That’s how it works.

Again, you see the absolute and the relative becomes important (laughs).

0:15:21.9 Audience: inaudible

0:15:37.7 Buddha has given the two truths: absolute and relative. You will hear the Four Noble Truths very often, but you will also hear the Two Truths. The Two Truths are absolute and relative truths. What is the relative truth? It is everything we function. We walk, we talk, we create karma, we pay the result of karma, everything whatever is functioning is functioning on the relative level. Relatively we can function, absolutely we don’t exist. If you start searching for the absolute existence you will never find it. That’s why absolutely you don’t exist, but relatively you do and that is good enough to function. That’s why I said it right from the beginning. I don’t blame you, this is a hard subject, really.

0:16:52.1 Every day, whatever we are doing, walking, talking, chitting, chatting, making jokes, drinking coffee, making jokes, whatever, all these are relative truth. It is truth, it functions. It is not a lie, it is not cheating. It is truly happening, therefore it is relative truth. You get me? Since it is not absolute, it has to be relative. Simple.

0:17:38.0 Audience: inaudible

0:17:59.8 Rimpoche: You are right, moral character is more or less binding. It is not mind, it is sort of binding – the good things have to be done, otherwise you face bad consequences. People don’t see it. Let me make it simple. There are two things.

0:18:37.4 One is: if I don’t do nicely, if other people see what I do I will be ashamed. The other: even if other people don’t see it I should be honest to myself and say, “I can’t do that, I am bound to that”. Any moral character is bound by these two reasons: other people seeing it and that’s shameful and the reason of myself, my honestly, making myself bound to certain behavior. That is what I understand as moral character. That becomes a mental commitment, acknowledgment and awareness. That is moral character.

0:19:44.5 Mind is totally different. That is the nature of the person not bound by anything. It is formless, yet existing with the person, being able to go and do anything, without any bondage.

Now spirits are something totally different. That is full of some different person you are referring to. We understand “soul”, the Christian terminology. Then consciousness – you are referring to a third person that can be good, bad, enlightened, ghost, why not? Spirit is formless. When you using the word “spirit” you are getting the soul of the person which is formless. When I say “formless”, in the cycle of existence there are form areas and formless areas. These ghosts and spirits are all formless, including hungry ghosts. When they don’t have a physical form, they have a mental form. The mental form has no blocks, not like the physical form. We have physical form. If I want to reach to New York I have go by plane, ship, train or whatever means. But I have to go there physically.

0:22:01.3 But if I don’t have this form, but a mental form, the moment my mind reaches there, I reach there, because of my mental form. Get me? So mental form has much less blocks than the physical form. So those ghosts don’t have physical form, but mental form. They function totally with the mental form. I think that’s what it is. If I am wrong, I am sorry, but I should be right.

I presume there are no more questions. My God, I am sorry, it is very late. I didn’t realize it’s quarter to eleven almost. Very sorry, there was a misunderstanding in the beginning about the timing. I only came to know it was supposed to start at 8 ‘clock when I came near the door.

0:23:05.6 I thought it was 8.30, then I was informed there was a mistake, it should be 8.30. Then I am sorry it went too long talking here, wasting your precious time with my senseless, selflessness talk (laughs). Another thing: now we have been able to talk all this, but in Buddhist general practice emptiness is important, however, the other part, the method, moral character and whatever, is also very important. So that’s the message I am giving you tonight. This is probably my last talk for this visit in Holland. So the message Buddha has given is two-fold: Theravada and Mahayana. Both are relevant to everybody. It is simple. One should also take a helpful attitude, always try to help others, be good, be pure, be sincere to yourself and then try to be helpful to others. That’s the Mahayana message.

0:24:32.2 If you cannot be helpful, do not harm anybody. Don’t be a mean person. That is the Theravada message. That’s what the Buddha said and I repeat that today. I wish you all the best and all success in your spiritual quest. Thank you.

0:25:05.7 DT

0:26:39.5 I have to mention one more thing, I am sorry. I have to thank the study group that made this talk possible. I really thank you for everybody, thank you Helen who has taken a lot of trouble, trying to help everybody and share her knowledge with everybody and also the other members of the study group, Marianne and Piet and all others. Thank you for arranging all this and I hope you will continue to study. We also are looking forward to expand the study group to do more study. Studying is what you really need. If you don’t know you can do nothing. So if you are looking for the opportunities contact the study group and they may be able to do extensions around here. That’s all and I wish you all the best.

0:28:05.2 Informal chats of Rimpoche with various people.

0:33:26.0 End of recording