Archive Result

Soundfile 19870100GRRTOMLOVCOM_20

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche/Robert Thurman

Location Omega Institute

Topic Love and Compassion

Transcriber Jill Neuwirth

Date 10/15/2023

Rimpoche: …Fourth, you touch at the heart level because at the heart is the place what we say the buddha mind, the mind of all-knowing everything, multi- what you have that video what you give first? RT: Multimedia. Rimpoche: Multimedia video focusing together simultaneously in one room. Like that. That’s way the Buddha sees, hears, smells, reads, experience things. As well as he sees the past, present, and future as it is. Debating point, I’m raising it up. As it is, okay? As it is. When I say as it is means- I’m sure we have debate but however, as it is means Buddha sees past as past. Buddha sees future as a future. If Buddha does not see future as future, then future should not be future. Or, Buddha is wrong. So therefore, Buddha has to see things as it is. So Buddha sees future, now. But as future. Buddha sees past now, but as past. Buddha sees things as it is. If God, Bhagavan, or Buddha doesn’t see things as it is, then it has to be crazy. Or, limited. Knowledge has to be limited. So, if their knowledge is limited, and cannot be all known. You know what I mean? In order to be all known, you have to known everything. In order to known everything, you have to known correctly, you cannot known wrong. If you known wrong, then it’s a problem. RT: Do you want to debate now? You said you wanted- Rimpoche: You’re welcome. RT: Or do you want to pretend it’s settled? Rimpoche: You’re welcome. RT: Well, how then can you say Buddha is wrong if he doesn’t see according to the deluded vision of those beings who see past, present, and future? I agreed with you that Buddha can see future- if he sees future, it is present to Buddha. That you can’t deny. To see it, it has to be present to him. Now that it is present to him, is different than it is to ordinary person to whom it is not present, only some sort of future which they can’t see. Future means that they can’t see it, because it’s not present to them. Therefore, you can’t say that Buddha’s seeing present is wrong, because it is not as it is for the ordinary person. In fact, Buddha’s perception is different from ordinary person and he is not crazy, they are crazy.

[0:03:39.4] Rimpoche: Is this a question or statement? RT: It’s my counter statement to your statement. Rimpoche: Oh, I see. That’s not correct then. Totally. (Audience laughs) Why- I give you the reason why. I give you the reason why. RT: Assertion alone won’t do it. Rimpoche: Why? Because past, present, and future is not wrong. When the past, present, and future is not wrong, the mind which perceived past, present, and future cannot be diluted mind because it is reality. So therefore, past, present, and future is existing. RT: (Inaudible) [0:04:24.1] Rimpoche: Of course. Past, present, and future exists. Hinayana or mahayana. No, whatever it may be. Past, present, and future exists. So past, existed as past, and future exists as future- oh, I cannot use the word exist, I’m sorry. That is wrong. Exist is wrong. RT: Oh good. Rimpoche: I must accept past, present, and future. Past is past, so therefore cannot exist. Future has not yet come, so therefore cannot exist. Existed is only present. True. However, you have to accept past, you have to accept future, because if there is no past and no future, why we work hard for? We are not going to get any good result at all, because there’s no future. Everything is present, whatever it is. So that’s not right. There is a future. When there is a future, that future Buddha has to see. Because it is- RT: Can I ask you one question? Rimpoche: I’m making statement, can I? (Laughs) You choose to make a statement. RT: It’s a statement you never finished. Rimpoche: Alright, then you start debate. Okay, go ahead question. Okay. RT: The first debate point, then- Rimpoche: Then you made a statement. (Laughs) I asked you a question, is this question or statement? So you said it’s counterstatement. Then I said, okay, you’re wrong, I’m making counterstatement. Okay, go ahead and ask question. RT: You have to explain one question, you just assert, past, present, and future has to be, you are asserting whole world has to be, samsara, everything, has to be- Rimpoche: No, it’s not, it’s not has to be. No. RT: That’s what you said. Rimpoche: No, it’s not has to be. No. Past, present, and future there. (Crosstalk as RT and Rimpoche argue) RT: Why then does Nagarjuna then say that there is no past and no present and no future? Why is Nagarjuna saying so? Rimpoche: And present does not exist. RT: Why does he say that? Rimpoche: As I told you, at present it does not exist. RT: Well, he says that, why does he say that- Rimpoche: Because at the present, future, and past does not exist. RT: No, no. He does not. He says present also does not exist. Rimpoche: Of course doesn’t exist. Basic exist- RT: Why does Nagarjuna say it does not then? Rimpoche: Present re zig (Speaks in Tibetan) [0:06:43.6] Natural present does not exist. RT: Oh, because he means it doesn’t really exist. Rimpoche: Definitely. RT: He means it only relatively exists. Rimpoche: When you say- RT: Is that right? Rimpoche: Yeah, yeah. RT: He means that only relatively exists. In some way it doesn’t exist, he means. Rimpoche: Yes. RT: In some way it doesn’t exist. Rimpoche: Yes, yes.

[0:06:59.7] When you read the root text, the beginning, it says da le (Quotes in Tibetan) When you say it’s neither from self, nor from other, neither from the cause, nor from this. We all know very well, we say, rang shig (Quotes in Tibetan) [0:07:21.3] Similarly here, we do the same thing. RT: But when you assert that such and such exists, and that is as it is, when you assert relative reality, it’s the only way as it is, then that means you are not acknowledging what Buddha’s vision is of ultimate reality. Rimpoche: No, I didn’t say that. I did not say. RT: Ultimate reality is meaningless, in short. Rimpoche: No, because relative I respect as well as I accept absolute. If you- (Cross talk as RT and Rimpoche argue) RT: Are they the same? Rimpoche: If you ignore the relative and say there’s no past and present and future, that is total nihilist. RT: If you ignore it. But, if you respect ultimate more than relative, that is not nihilist. Rimpoche: No, no, no, no. But what I mean is, if there is no future, and no past, you may say, in the present there is no past exist, in the present there is no future exist. Or in the eyes of the to na (Quotes in Tibetan) [0:08:24.0] And seeing the emptiness, the past doesn’t see and future doesn’t see it. But on the other hand, you cannot say enlightened doesn’t see the past and the future. Then it’s not enlightened. It is only the present. RT: I only said enlightenment only sees past and future according to ignorance of- Rimpoche: Would you like to debate here? RT: We are debating. Rimpoche: Okay. No, you are not. Can I ask question, or would you like to ask question, then? Then we see which is right. RT: You’ve been around it already. Rimpoche: No, I ask- RT: You don’t consider ultimate reality to be more important than relative reality, because you want to insist relative reality is completely unchanged, it’s just so, that’s how it is, and if Buddha does not agree to relative reality, Buddha is crazy, you say. Rimpoche: Buddha has to accept- RT: …Ultimate reality’s supremacy. Ultimate means- Rimpoche: Buddha give two truths. Absolute truth and relative truth. Both are true, right? If you lose one, you will be Yamantaka without one horn. RT: Both are true but both are true in the different ways. Rimpoche: Yeah, I know. RT: They’re not both- Rimpoche: I’m not talking about absolute level, I’m talking about common people how commonly read commonly take it. RT: But Buddha’s way is- Rimpoche: That’s what I’m telling you. Absolute truth and relative truth both exist. So you have to accept that. When you accept that, you have to accept past, present, and future. RT: Only relatively. Rimpoche: Well, relatively, yes. No, I didn’t say that. RT: …So therefore you have to not accept it too. Rimpoche: No. RT: Yes. Rimpoche: If relatively accept, it’s good enough to be accept.

[0:10:07.6] If relatively exist, it’s good enough to be exist. RT: Relatively accept without ultimate, without ultimately not accepting is no good- Rimpoche: I did not say. I did not say without absolutely- you edited one word here. That’s you’re putting extra word in between. That may change the meaning. So relatively exist, the three times. When relatively exist, it’s good enough to be exist. Absolutely you don’t exist. RT: Exactly. Rimpoche: So you are not here. You are not talking. RT: Absolutely. Rimpoche: What I am hearing, am I wrong? Is everybody gone crazy? (Laughs) RT: … that’s relatively. You could be hearing it wrong, that means. Rimpoche: No. Listen, listen, listen, please. No, no. Could be wrong, but it’s not wrong. RT: …Illusory. Rimpoche: Not wrong. RT: Ultimately wrong. Rimpoche: I’m not asking ultimately. I’m asking- RT: To deal with Buddha’s vision you have to ask- Rimpoche: Do I have the right to ask question? Or you have to make the question yourself too? (Laughs) So then I ask question. Then I ask question. I’m not asking absolutely. Do you exist, or you don’t exist? RT: You can’t ask that, I- Rimpoche: I’m asking the question. It’s my question (Laughs) RT: I do not, relatively I do. Rimpoche: Okay, relatively do you exist? RT: Yes. Rimpoche: It is good enough or not good enough to be exist? RT: It is not good enough, it is samsara. If I only think that that relatively is the only way. Rimpoche: No I’m not asking, I’m not asking whether your relatively is the only way, I’m not asking you. I’m simply asking you, whether do you exist or not, relatively. RT: Relatively? Of course, I do. Rimpoche: Is that good enough to be exist or not to be exist? RT: But then you- Rimpoche: No, no, I’m not asking- good enough to be exist? RT: It’s good enough for an ignorant person, it’s not good enough for Buddha, or Nagarjuna. Rimpoche: According to the Buddha, you don’t exist here? RT: Ultimately, that’s right. Rimpoche: I’m not asking ultimate. I said, according to the Buddha, do you exist or don’t exist? RT: According to the Buddha, I exist. Rimpoche: I’m not ask- according to the Buddha, do you exist? RT: According to ignorance, I do not exist according to wisdom. Rimpoche: No, no, let’s not go through. RT: …two realities. Rimpoche: Okay, let us go through- RT: Can I ask you one question? Rimpoche: Yeah, go ahead. RT: If according to Buddha I only exist, why does he teach two realities, and say that in ultimate reality I do not exist? For what reason does he say that? Rimpoche: According to the Buddha, can I answer? RT: I asked you the question. Rimpoche: According to the Buddha, I’m existing because I am base of my karma. According to the Buddha, in absolute reality, I do not exist because I am emptiness. That’s it. RT: Thank you.

[0:12:58.8] Rimpoche: But in absolute, if you do not exist, it is not good enough not to be exist. That is the point where you overlook. That’s why we have to accept relative. Anyway, now let’s go beyond that, okay, I’m sorry. Okay, now the next- where did we jump this from? Audience: (Inaudible) [0:13:24.1] Rimpoche: Saluting. Okay. (Laughs) Saluting, okay. Praising, okay. Now the saluting is the through the body. And now the virtue, the amount of tremendous virtue, whatever you have, it is tremendous. And if we go in that detail, there are too much, I mean, really, I can talk about five days on that. The benefits alone on the saluting. So, let’s not go into this. And but, some people may think the saluting alone is good enough, so you spend lot of time to building only saluting business up for long, long, time. That is according to my feeling, and according to the Tsongkhapa’s teaching, slightly wasting of time. In other words, you just waste, you just only doing that. Only that will not serve. It is not- do not misunderstand. I’m not saying the prostration is not needed. It is needed, it is good. But alone. Some people will do only prostration, nothing else. That’s not good. Okay? Saluting, praising. Praising is the respect, paying respect to the object of refuge by speech. By making, by composing poems, by singing, by chanting, by writing, by all this, any way through a sound, which you are paying respect is the praising business. I jump quick now. Praising. Okay. Offering. Now third is offering. Now offering is so important, you must make offering. So I’m here to collect! (Laughs) That’s good for me! I’m joking. (Laughs) Offering is really good and important, because as I mentioned to you yesterday, or the day before, when we talk about generosity. Chandrakirti had said, what is it? Min em dewa lon (Quotes in Tibetan) [0:16:28.7] So all the pleasures of the human life is depend on the wealth. The wealth is the result of the generosity. So therefore, generosity is one of the most important recommended activity. And among the generosity we have given you the detail. Generosity giving of food, clothes, medicine, teaching, life, all this we talked two days ago. But here, the offering is another reason because object to whom you offer, you make offering, that make difference for even normal generosity. And generally giving it away is very powerful and helpful and very resultful. However, giving to the needy who need it most, it is more helpful than giving somewhere half needed, half not needed. And giving to a supreme field of merit is the best field so therefore you can get best result. Best result. So that’s why recommended field is the object of refuge. So that’s why offering is very, very important. It build tremendous merit. The offering does not necessarily has to be a money, clothes, et cetera, as I mentioned other day. You can offer anything, and particularly when you are poor, you have nothing to offer, you should not think, I cannot become a wealthy, because I have nothing to be giving it away. You have everything to giving it away. You have particularly, you know, even offering, two different offering, physical offering and practical offerings. The practical offering considered it’s more important offering than the physical offering. The Milarepa does the practical offering. Na sa sing (Quotes in Tibetan) [0:18:56.4] Milarepa says I have nothing to give in terms of material money or wealth, but the kindness of the great master I will repay by meditating.

[0:19:12.1] By practicing. That is the best offering. Offering which makes all the buddhas and bodhisattvas pleased because buddhas and bodhisattvas are enlightened beings wants is for us to do something good. So we are beginning to showing in that direction, so they’ll be happy. It’s like a mother who had a one child, a son, and son always been naughty, terrible naughty always doing something wrong thing. But one day suddenly, if all of a sudden if he or she tried to do something really like something wonderful. Then you think, how wonderful, you know, you really be how happy the mother is. Just like that. We always behave wrongly. Always way the enlightened ones we don’t do it. Way they don’t want it, we always do it. So, but when sometimes when one day we try to do something good, so when they see that, they will really happy. So that makes us additional virtue we develop additional positivity. So that’s why this practical offering is excellent. And even you don’t have anything else, physically, you don’t have anything else to offer, then even a glass of water offering in front of your altar is, and a flower, I mean- I don’t believe anybody in America cannot afford a glass of water to put on the altar, or piece of flower on the altar, no, it’s impossible. And piece of incense. They can definitely offer. So even you don’t have glass of water is recommended, if you don’t have anything else. Because water has so many qualities. Atisha had said eight qualities for water. Well, I don’t know whether this is chemically, did that water have that quality or not, but the pure water definitely have eight qualities. Tang se (Quotes in Tibetan) [0:21:35.1] It is clear, it is clean, it is cool by nature, it doesn’t harm your throat, doesn’t harm your stomach, so since we put in chemical, I’m not sure about that quality. Otherwise, all these are eight qualities. So when you offer a glass of water, and each quality, from that quality point of view, and you gain special merit of offering. So even you offer one glass, you get at least eight glass of water offering merit you get. Because there’s eight quality in it. So you can do that. Even glass of water you can offer. You can burn any incense that you want to.

[0:22:27.3] And even you don’t have that, you say, I’m so poor I have nothing else to offer, please enjoy that glass of water. Even you don’t have it, I see outside a beautiful flower. I have no money, I’m poor, I have no money to buy to offer you, but however, I’m collecting all this beautiful flowers that available in Switzerland and Holland, and then in the United States and every part of the world I’m making this offering, even furthermore multiplied by Samantabhadra system. Samantabhadra system is all this is- you have to do Samantabhadra system, but I forgot to mention from the beginning. Samantabhadra is manifested, one body have hundred body. Each body has a hundred heads, each head has a hundred tongues, each tongue will say a hundred praise, like that. So, whenever though you say one, but it’s multiplied million times and then making that way. So that’s what you do. But if you have it, and you don’t want to offer that, and still you say, I am poor so that I have nothing else to offer, if a beggar comes and beg something and say I am poor, I have nothing to give you but I visualize giving you everything, that won’t do. Particularly, when you’re making offerings, pug e sa (Quotes in Tibetan) [0:24:00.8] When you’re making actual offerings, and you know, it should not be the yellow part of the vegetable and green part of the butter. You know what I mean? You say, well, this vegetable is getting bad, make it offerings, okay? Because the yellowing. Okay, this butter is getting bad, it’s becoming blue now, make that’s offering. So, if you do that, I don’t think it get much merit and maybe you’re getting more, sort of more, disadvantage. But you don’t have that much problem in the West. This problem we have with the Tibetans. And Eastern people, particularly. Eastern people are always like to keep everything and then, says, well, it’s going to be wasted then give it, you know? So till the last minute they keep it, but Americans they don’t give it if you can’t eat it, you won’t give to anybody else, right? So, don’t have much problem for that. Okay, I think offerings enough. And then, addition to that, practically what you can make offering is, you can offer universal. Whole universe, that’s why the mandala offering is. The whole universe here, though you don’t own the whole universe by you, however, you have collective karma to be part of it. So therefore, you have a little right to do it. It’s not totally you don’t have a right. You have a little right in the whole universal. But whatever it may be. So, you take a whole universe, that is every existence in the universe, different galaxies. According to the Buddha’s teaching two thousand five hundred years ago, there are multibillion different galaxies as read in the Vimalakirti. It is not ended here.

[0:26:10.6] It goes too away, very far away. So, you offer all different universal. I mean, that is total highest offering. Without any hope of getting rewarded, or without any hope of getting any return. Though, generosity is direct cause for becoming wealthy, but with the hope of getting wealthy if you throw it away, you’re wasting. Okay? That’s that. That is the offering. Then what is next? Confessing. Okay, that’s very important. All the Americans have a problem, a lot of the, you, have a problem. I really feel funny sometimes, funny about what to do. You brought up such a way thing called guilt what you carry around. A completely stupid. Really stupid. I tell you the most stupid. And it bothers so much and you don’t have (Inaudible) [0:27:28.8] for whatsoever, day and night you be worried about it. And anything whatever happened that comes up you remember, and say, oh my god, I was guilty of that, blah, blah, blah. That is most silliest thing I have ever seen it, among these educated people. I’m not saying that you’re superstitious, okay? It’s not superstitious. Why do we have to carry guilt? Why? The guilt is impermanent. You are impermanent. The hell is impermanent. The suffering is impermanent. Everything is subject of change. Deeds are changing. The human beings are subject of change. Your body is subject of change. Your mind is subject of change. Your hair is subject of change. Your nose is subject of change. Every single damn thing is subject of change, okay? Everything changes. So why the guilt doesn’t change? Where does that come from in between nowhere, suddenly a permanent one there? Where does that come from? Who throwed it in there? At a stupid misinterpretation of teaching, that what made it. If you, what really the enlightened beings say, East or the West or the Middle East, I have seen it, and heard, and read some. What they say, if you commit something wrong, you must have strong regret. That’s everybody says that. Okay. If you do not, if you fall in the hell realm, it is a long time down there. Okay, a long time, they say. That doesn’t mean the hell is permanent. Long time does not mean it’s forever. You have to regret means you have to carry the regret forever. Doesn’t mean that. So don’t go one step beyond to manipulate helpless human beings by using that as an instrumental to control. Regret is a must, you have to carry regret. Regret has purpose. Why? If you regret, you will not repeat. If you do not regret, you keep on repeating it, or you will enjoy doing it. That’s not good to do, anything whatever bad is. So the regret will make you not to do it. Because you regretted what you did it. And that is automatic normally, isn’t it? When you regret it, it’s automatic, you don’t do it again. Then you have to on top of that, you have to repent it. (Asks RT in Tibetan) RT: No. Regret and repent is pretty similar actually. Same. Rimpoche: Then also you- then on top of that, you have to promise that you won’t do it again. You have to promise to yourself, you yourself is your best witness. You don’t have to go and search another witness for you. If you have two things, what we call it (Tibetan word) and teyu (?) [0:32:08.5] The shame and what do you call the other? RT: Conscience. Rimpoche: Conscience. When you have conscience to yourself, and you are the best witness for yourself.

[0:32:23.3] So you don’t have to search another witness for that. So you have to promise that you won’t do it again. You may break promise, doesn’t matter. But with intention of breaking promise, you don’t promise, okay? That’s not a promise, okay? But beginning you have to promise once. And, you also need action on that. Antidote action. Some good action to justify. To justify your repentance, you have to have some good action for that. There are antidote recommended actions are there, but for example, if you killed some creature, save life. Saving life means, well, if that fellow is on that road and well, if I don’t move it he will be killed. But that may be saving, but it is to be sure is those of the animals, or anything who are positive to be slaughtered. Like you know, the sheeps are taken to the slaughterhouse. Or the buffalos are pushing to the slaughterhouse. Or the fish which are in the market which is not dead, or which can be survived. Or the lobster, for that matter. (RT laughs) He’s laughing at me because I ate lobster. All this sort of, you’re sure it’s going to be killed if you could save them. At the moment that person, that creature leaves, and then you gain a positive of a saving a life. You understand? That is how it works. So, that is sort of thing a direct action. Saying om mani peme hung is another action which is great help. Doing prostrations would be another action. So there are a lot of hundred different actions are available. It is not limited at all. Audience: What about guilt and regret? Can you just explain that a little more? What’s the difference between people who walk around and say, oh, I’m so bad, and so bad, and that feeling is guilt… Rimpoche: The beginning, regret and guilt is the same. When you purify, it purifies, no more reason to be carry it out, it’s gone, beyond you. Okay? RT: He doesn’t just mean guilt in general, he means the kind of morbid guilt that people like hold onto in a- under the concept of there’s nothing they can do about it. Guilt and regret are the same. Same meaning. But when they use it in a morbid way, is when it’s rejected. Rimpoche: Good. Audience: Meaning that you can’t do anything about it- Rimpoche: I mean, you be carrying it around throughout your life, crying, screaming, that is what we don’t want it. Okay, now what else? Better be faster. What is it now? RT: Congratulating. Rimpoche: Okay. Now, no, no, no- now I did not finish the four powers yet. Okay, now what else. These are the two powers, power of regret, power of repentance, and power of action, three are completed. Power of base, which I talked the other day. Power of base is, base on which you have to do something to justify. You have to, you know, to educate. You know, do something. That is, power of base. The base is two things, refuge taking, to the enlightened beings, and meditating love and compassion to the nonenlightened beings. Okay? You get it now?

[0:37:13.5] Refuge taking, and meditating will be this power of base. So the beginning, before you sit down and do anything, when the moment you sit down, you take a breath, clear your thoughts, give yourself good rest, thought, relax, then visualize your supreme field of objects which we talked to the other day, whatever way you want to do it, or God, or whatever way you want to do it, in front of you. And then, then you take a refuge, and then you wish all the sentient beings in front of you, four immeasurable. Or thing. By doing these two, will fill the base of power, power of base been fulfilled. Then this stuff you do all the seven, one by one. Okay. Now, next is, rejoice. The rejoice is, is very profitable. It is like business. You know, you don’t have to put anything down, no investment, but full of profit. That is rejoice. Tsongkhapa have said be la (Quotes in Tibetan) [0:38:51.9] So the best recommended to gain profit is rejoice. The reason is what we do, we don’t rejoice our friends normally. We get jealousy. So when we see our neighbors doing something good, we refuse to accept that it’s good, so by- but still, lot of people think they’re doing good, so you can’t say they’re doing bad. So what do you say? Oh, yes, yes, yes wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, but- it could have done that way, I wish if he did this little bit more, or I wish he did a little bit earlier, or somehow or another, you have putting an extra color on top, is the clear sign of jealousy to your neighbors. I’m giving example. You say, how wonderful this fellow is doing this great wonderful. If you put full stop there, you get a lot of advantage. But moment you pull a little more, and then it’s a disadvantage for you. So what happened is, some of them even say, oh yes, yes, yes, isn’t that wonderful, she is doing it, wonderful, wonderful, but- sometimes when she gets angry, oh you see how horror, so I wonder if this is just an act of show, what is it? Sort of, you know, in a reality, though maybe she or he is doing something great, but you have just put it down totally. So what happened to me? I have built tremendous bad karma, tremendous non-virtuous, and get no benefit. And if I rejoice, even I know she’s doing for purpose something bad, as I wonder she is doing something wonderful, and I wish I could do the same way. Okay. So what happens, what does that do to me? I get the same benefit as much as she gets. She worked, I didn’t do it. I rejoiced. I get the same benefit. Same result whatever she enjoys, I get it. So, it is not worth to blow it up by saying but. Just rejoice, full stop there. Don’t go beyond that. That’s none of your business. My business is rejoice, and stop. So similarly, if you rejoice, buddhas and bodhisattvas, and those great masters, those great persons who are doing, if you rejoice, there was how much benefit we get? Though we only get all of theirs. It depends on the spiritual level. It’s a business. The shareholders have a better deal. (Laughs) [0:42:26.5]

So the higher the spiritual- if the higher person rejoiced, or lower one, they get double. The lower one rejoice the higher gets half, equals the equal you get it. That is the system how it works. This is share market rule. So, Wall Street rule, okay? That’s it. So, if you keep on, even though we get half rejoice, half of the buddhas, and all the- how wonderful we get. So that’s why Tsongkhapa said effortlessly one can get tremendous. Okay? So that’s why- okay. Urging is (Speaks in Tibetan to RT) [0:43:19.0] Urging is making request to give the teaching of dharma, sound of dharma, those of the person who are capable of talking dharma giving a guide to other persons, I requesting them to give. If you do not make a request, they don’t volunteer. They don’t volunteer at all. Actually, nobody volunteers. If I had not been asked by Professor here, I won’t voluntarily come here, for sure. I’m sorry, (Laughs) right? Yeah, that’s right. So, that’s why you keep on making request to the- to your supreme field of merit, keep on giving you dharma all the time. And also asking, the next is asking them to remain forever. Don’t leave, don’t go away. Be with you. Believe. And those of the enlightened beings who are in human form, who would like, who are helping others, who would like to go away, also asking them not to go- whoever they are, may live long. And that also benefits us. So this is all profit area. It’s all profit area. There’s no loss here. It’s total profit area. And lastly, dedication. As I told you, if you do not dedicate any virtue, you may get tremendous virtue here, and all these virtues, if you do not dedicate, what will happened? The anger will take them, just like that. One sweep of anger will blow everything out. So to protect from that, you dedicate. Dedicate. And also dedicate is so much, you can dedicate for anything. You can dedicate for somebody to get better, you can dedicate to get more money, you can dedicate whatever you want to. There is no limit to it. But, recommended dedication is, recommended wherever those enlightened peoples have dedicated, I would like to dedicate the same way. That is recommended. Why? (Quotes in Tibetan) [0:45:53.4] So, it is like we have, it is like the virtue whatever we have, like a drop. Those enlightened beings whatever they have like an ocean. If we carry our drop and put it in the ocean, and no person on the earth can separate it, say, hey- this is your drop. It’s mixed in the water. The water mixed in the water no one can separate it. So till that ocean finishes, my drop of water will also not be finished. So, again, it is additional profit you have here. So you may worry, okay, if I dedicated everything for enlightenment what about my food and my clothes and my this and that thing? You don’t have to worry. That has side effects, it automatically comes under. Particularly Buddha’s followers are guaranteed by Buddha, they don’t- nobody will die of hunger. Because Buddha had dedicated tremendous amount of his virtue to his followers. Buddha has even said to the extent, even the food has become so scarcity, that the no one can even afford to waste land about as big as this much, palm sized, even that much land a person has to grow food, but Buddha’s followers will not be hungry. So that was because his tremendous amount of virtue had been dedicated for this purposes.

[0:47:54.3] Neither is necessary to become very rich, also. That’s very critical for this because of attachment. But nobody will be poor, totally poor either. So, that’s what it is. Another thing is, I give you another example. Two Tibetan travelers are coming from East Tibet- no, not East Tibet. From the West Tibet toward Central Tibet. One rich man, and one poor chap. The poor mans in Tibet eat the barley flour- it’s not barley flour (Speaks to RT in Tibetan) [0:48:35.1] RT: Bean flour. Rimpoche: Black bean flour. And the little better ones eat the barley flour. Barley flour’s white. The bean with the skin, there’s black spots. So they’re coming day after day together. The wealthy one has a horse to ride. The poor one has to carry his load behind. Oh no, sorry. They both carry their load behind, and going. So the poor one doesn’t have much to carry because his food is little. There’s no hotels, motels, that’s why you have to carry your food as much as you go. So, the wealthy one has so much. So the poor one thought, well, we both going together, we sit down in the one place we eat together, but he eats his and I eat mine, and mine is not very much left also. He had a lot more. So if I offer him that I carry the thing and he may let me do it. So he went to the, told the wealthier man and said, hey, friend you and I been traveling together, carrying the same food around and cooking separately. So why don’t we mix them together then I carry for you. And if I’m completely exhausted you can help me, but I carry most I carry for you, so shall we mixed our powdered tsampa together? He said, oh yeah, that would be very great, I don’t have to carry. Wonderful, thank you. Go ahead and do it. So he mixed it. So then they keep on eating together and when days went out. And nobody said anything. And then their food becomes little, you know. So then the wealthy one thought, said friend, you had very little, remember? And now it is little. Maybe yours is finished now? Don’t you think it’s over? He said yes, you’re right! And I had very little, I do remember, and you had a lot. Let us see whether mine’s finished or not. So he started looking through it. Said, lots of black spots everywhere. So he said, it’s not- it’s here, here, here. There’s black spots everywhere. So that’s it. That’s what happens when you carry little one, mixed with the great virtue accumulation of enlightened beings. Then your spots are everywhere. So till they’re enlightened beings virtue’s finished, ours will not be finished. So these are the profitable techniques.

[0:51:36.1] Business tricks you can do in your spiritual path. So these are the seven branch prayer, and that’s- you have to do from the meditation from your heart. Whatever I talk to you is the material I talk to you as usual, and you use them, and meditate yourself. And if you do that every day, it is very, very, great. I’m not trying to make you Buddhist again, okay, this is the general, anybody can practice that. And with this, I really wanted thank you so much for everybody. I really enjoyed to be with you. And thank you to the Professor. Thank you for the organizers, and thank you for everybody. And I wish and look forward to be touch with you one time or another, here or there, wherever it may be. Thank you. (Audience claps) RT: So, now we have a little longer to finish up the Vimalakirti. I must confess I feel a bit lazy. (Laughs, speaks to photographer in audience) [0:53:04.8] Now, where we reached here in the Vimalakirti is, we reached to the time when Vimalakirti takes his whole group, and he goes to the Buddha. And I skipped pretty quickly the thing with the Buddha I talked about the other day, you know? About in the one universe, in the incense universe the bodhisattvas there, teach just by smelling incense and in Buddha’s universe there’s all this complicated dharma especially with a big emphasis on suffering, I think I already taught that. We already went through that chapter. And in that chapter though, it’s very much emphasized, the difference between this land from a pure land and actually the advantage of the Buddha Shakyamuni’s land, remember within the context of the initial fact that Shakyamuni put his toe on the ground and showed that if he wanted to, the power of his merit was such, he could manifest a perception of his environment as completely pure and perfect, in a way, to all the beings in it. So that it could be experienced by them as a kind of pure land. Their ordinary perception- in other words, he showed that their ordinary perception of ordinary suffering and ordinary inadequate land filled with sufferings, he could actually change that perception, not to make nirvana, but to make it quite almost perfect pure land, where they could just live in samadhi, basically. He could have them in short sitting. If sitting was enough, just meditating, he could have an environment where all the beings who are just meditating all the time is what he showed actually in his first put, like for when he put his toe down. Like an incense universe, the incense bodhisattvas are in a realm where everything is incense. They don’t have to go and find incense to make offerings, their body is incense, the land is incense, the trees are incense, and the teaching is incense. A perfume comes, the Buddha just radiates a perfume, they smell it, and they attain samadhi, immediately.

[0:55:16.4] It’s like completely automatic, like mechanical, even. So at first we think, that would be great. We don’t have to drive to Omega, we don’t have to stop for lunch, we don’t have to worry about toilet, we don’t have to do anything. Just smell incense, body is incense, pure energy dharma comes in smell, just everyone is in samadhi, that’s it. Yet the claim there is, in Vimalakirti’s claim, which the bodhisattvas seem to accept, is that in that universe, there are many practices that they cannot practice. And those practices that they cannot practice, are not practices having to do with wisdom, and understanding, actually, but are practices having to do with compassion particularly. Because in such an artificial environment, the reality of suffering is removed from these people. Since the world is infinite, there are other beings still left in the suffering. And there’s still the reality of suffering. So how many samadhis they get, they cannot interact with that suffering. Not being able to interact with that suffering their compassion does not cultivate itself well. In fact, ironically, in that pure land to really develop their compassion, they have to emanate or incarnate out of the pure land into a more impure land, and in that impure land, then they can cultivate the compassion because then they are feeling beings around them as suffering. So he says, at the end of that chapter he says, what are the ten virtuous practices which do not exist in any other Buddha field, then this Buddha field which is Shakyamuni’s, which is called by way the Buddha field Saha. Saha means something like tolerable. But the implication is that it’s barely tolerable. Sort of, not too great. So just tolerable, Saha. You know the name of Shakyamuni in Tibetan is Suha, or Suja, or something like that. I forgot. Supow, I forgot what it is. It’s something Supa, you know. Saha means to be tolerated. Rimpoche: (Inaudible) RT: Something like that. Name of this universe of Shakyamuni’s Buddhaland. So the ten things that therefore that are special about this is to win the poor by means of generosity. To win the immoral by means of morality and so on. That means that it is a universe in which there are poor people, immoral people, lazy people, stupid people, et cetera, it has to have these imperfections, in other words. The imperfection, the balance of perfection, imperfection is essential is what Vimalakirti’s argument is, the argument of the sutra.

[0:57:59.2] Which is kind of strange. In other words, in Baba Ram Dass’s dichotomy of it’s perfect, but it stinks, the but it stinks part becomes extremely important to remain close to, to remain aware of. So now then after that happens, then they all go- then Vimalakirti has fed them during that teaching. This is a curious one, he’s given each some food and now the poor monks are upset again because they smell very nice, like they put on a lot of perfume. (Laughs) And then they’re very upset, they feel embarrassed, they’re going back to the Buddha, in front of the Buddha, and a monk is not allowed to wear perfume, or deodorant or whatever, it’s against the rules of the vinaya. So now all these monks are smelling like you know, like a lady that’s very fashionable ladies or something, delicious smell, absolutely exquisite smell, and they’re very nervous. So they say, Vimalakirti, how can we get rid of the smell? And he says, sorry, you can’t wash off the smell. You ate that food. The smell does not go away until if you have achieved this level of enlightenment, you have achieved the next level above. If you have achieved such and such an insight tong lam (?) [0:59:08.7] Until you reach a gom lam (?) it doesn’t go away. Then if you reach the insight path, until meditation path, it won’t go away. If you reach meditation path, until arhat, it won’t go away. In other words, you can only get rid of it by changing your own being, or the smell won’t go away. He said it will be digested in forty-nine days. Only, after some change. Anyway, that’s a small point. Main point, then they talk around to the Buddha and Buddha talks about other buddhalands and how amazing they are, and why this buddhaland is particularly good. And then the bodhisattvas from the other buddhaland, they apologize to Shakyamuni Buddha. They say, Shakyamuni, we apologize. We thought we came from such a great land where just every incense taught the dharma. We came to this very ordinary land where people didn’t even seem to be knowing even the dharma. And we thought is really disgusting land, like tacky universe you had here. Really poor, you know, no dharma, nothing, people suffering, no incense, nothing.

[1:00:12.4] But we apologize, now we understand because of the power of existence in your land, cultivate compassion, we understand that it’s actually superior even to our land. So we’re really sorry that we despised your land first. We realized that in order to develop living beings, the buddha’s manifest such a field though their skill of liberative technique, which are inconceivable to suit the ability of such and such a being. So then they asked the Buddha for a teaching by which they may remember him, even when they return to their own incense universe. And so, then he gives this long teaching of the destructible and indestructible, which again is completely always dichotomies. Taking all these opposite things and fitting them together, one after another. The bodhisattva does not rest in the uncompounded in order to perfect the marks of Buddhahood. And in order to perfect the wisdom of omniscience, he does not destroy the ordinary world. So neither one does he destroy. He does not, like I am doing, Rimpoche wants to say, destroying the relative. Nor does he not, as I am accusing Rimpoche, ignore the ultimate. Both the relative and the ultimate always kept in a balance, and that balance is always a tension balance. If you collapse and say, oh, it’s only the relative, anytime you do that, you’re really off the base. And if you collapse to the ultimate states, only the ultimate, then you’re also really off the base. If I go too strong and say just the ultimate, doesn’t exist, I become a nihilist. If Rimpoche goes too strong, and says just the relative, doesn’t need the ultimate, he becomes an absolutist. The middle way is to maintain a tension, a balance between these two things. I know we’re getting close to debate, but we won’t, I hope. Same balance! (Laughs) Same balance. So this whole teaching goes like that. I’m not going to just read it, because there it is. You read it. It’s balance, again and again. And each one challenges our mind, it keeps a certain kind of tension. This is the beautiful thing. It’s nonduality, it’s integration, even. That’s why I like integration better than union for sum juk. [1:02:22.5] Because integration has the sense that the things that are integrated, made as if a whole, are still separated. They’re kind of in a tension, you know? Like the male female symbol for example of the integration which is a great, very famous tantric symbol. It isn’t like they collapse into one androgenous being. That would be a symbol of union. They become one being somehow, merge. They remain still the two in the play of the duality, and yet they’re completely integrated in a kind of whole through love, type of thing. That’s a symbol like that. Which is why I prefer integration to union. Union means they just completely like, no longer distinguish the separate parts. Anyway, you can read it, it’s very beautiful. And at the end of that teaching, the bodhisattvas they fly back to their universe samduganda suganda (?) [1:03:08.3]

Now, the last chapter, actually there’s one after that that’s quite interesting. A kind of dedication chapter, which is nice, the epilogue. But the last chapter is what I really want to spend just a few minutes about and then we will stop. The first major event in the last chapter that I think is quite extraordinary, is when they- Vimalakirti, after the bodhisattvas have gone, the Buddha taught them this nonduality thing reconciliation of dichotomy, really like Vimalakirti’s reconciliation of dichotomy in terms of created and uncreated, relative and absolute. He sort of balances relative and absolute always. And it’s really quite marvelous one. Now, he then asks Vimalakirti, he says noble son, the Buddha does. When you would see the tathagatas, how do you view him? This is kind of very climactic kind of moment, because remember Vimalakirti, remember all those incidents where he meets the different bodhisattvas and he meets the different disciples. Many times it seems almost as if he’s attacking even Shakyamuni. I mean, he isn’t really, he respects, but yet for example, Ananda was sent by Shakyamuni with the milk, to go and get him milk, I’m sick, oh Ananda, I feel sick today, Buddha said. Ananda comes, Vimalakirti says, don’t say the Buddha is sick. That’s a terrible thing to say Buddha is sick. That’s in a way saying, because Buddha himself said I’m sick, go get me some milk. So he’s attacking almost what Buddha does. It seems, many times. But the other monks are behaving and following this and that teaching of the Buddhas. Vimalakirti comes and says that’s not the way to do it. It seems like he’s almost after Buddha. Even when he criticizes individual vehicles, if you stick only individual vehicles you don’t try to become a Buddha for the sake of all beings like in universal vehicle. It seems as if he’s going against the Buddha. Certainly, the one thing he always seems to be doing is attacking authority. Buddha is definitely the authority figure. Buddha says this, everybody, oh yes. Although interestingly, what the Buddha says about this authority is, if you respect my authority, don’t accept what I say on my authority. Examine it with reason, experience, et cetera, and only then do you use it. Don’t just say, oh he’s a Buddha, he looks so great, he has this and that, so he said it, I accept it. Because accept it, not that it isn’t right, what the Buddha says many times, it’s not that it’s not right, it is that if you accept it in the way of where you simply obey an authority, it is not a full acceptance. Just as you believe today, this authority, so another one who comes looks even bigger than Buddha. Maybe look like four Buddhas altogether. Maybe thirty feet high instead of only five feet high like a Buddha. If you’re following authority, then the next one, the next boss is going to then, you’re going to change over to the next boss. Furthermore, you’re only changing your dependence from one thing to another when you following an authority. You do not accept the authority of the inner lady buddha, your inner wisdom. You do not, in fact, therefore, have any kind of freedom.

[1:06:21.1] Buddha is not in the world to boss everybody around. Buddha is in the world so people can be their own boss. So they can be free. So therefore, that’s why they follow such a procedure. Nevertheless, in the Buddhist community, there is an inveterate tendency to make Buddha into authority. And on some level, he is authority. He is the authority who says no authority is ultimately that good. He says that’s why Vimalakirti remains silent in the moment of being an authority about the ultimate reality. He shuts up. We know Vimalakirti can talk endlessly. But he doesn’t talk there, because he doesn’t want someone to say, oh, you told me now what is ultimate reality. I just remember what you said somehow that’s going to make me free. He wants them to have to challenge both to have the confirmation and affirmation, their own wisdom is what realizes ultimate reality. Even their own senses are in touch with ultimate reality at all times as we discussed at one point. And they don’t need someone telling them therefore, ultimate reality. They need to understand it themselves. So, however, because of this- there’s still this tension though, Vimalakirti and Buddha. Still kind of tension. So when they actually meet, then Buddha says, well, now you meet, how do you see me? Like me and Rimpoche. It’s like dynamic tension there. This is true. This is great experiment, you don’t understand quite. I explained a little but, but even I don’t understand. I may even big mistake, but it’s very strange experiment. You people have to realize, Rimpoche is my lama. At some level, he’s really my lama. I have received initiation from Rimpoche, I respect Rimpoche. I see Rimpoche as indivisible from my root guru, His Holiness Dalai Lama, his own teacher, our mutual teacher His Holness The Ling Rimpoche who passed away. Even my original teacher the Geshe Wangyal. All of my teachers are somehow indivisible. And in a certain ritual setting in which Rimpoche has been kind enough to extend to me, in very precious teachings, I see Rimpoche completely as my guru. As my lama. Under the lama there is a statement in the initiation that says, now I am your Vajrasattva, and you do what I say. There is that statement. His Holiness made everybody faint almost, in Wisconsin, in this country, when he did Kalachakra initiation some years ago. Especially a lot of people who didn’t familiar with the initiations and with the authority nature of lamas, in that ritual setting. Because there you’re supposed to visualize they are indivisible from the Buddha, you see, and you must do that. You must cancel your perception of them as ordinary, in order to receive the blessings of the Buddha, at that context, you must. So Dalai Lama is in this big Kalachakra, a big huge thangka Kalachakra behind, ceremony, he’s just- so now we come in along, he says in the thing, he says, now I am your Vajrasattva you must do what I say. Then at the end he says, except- but, if I say wrong, don’t do it! (Laughs)

[1:09:31.9] Then everybody’s getting- what? What? They are having crisis of faith, or they’re thinking, other teaching they heard was something wrong, everyone’s very agitated. Even Tibetans are looking shocked. This is big boss of Tibet, Dalai Lama. He says no, if I say wrong, then you don’t have to do it, he’s saying. What he’s talking about? Then he has lot of discussion about this and it actually wasn’t settled in that context, no time to. But, he wanted to say something, he says, he said basically that, this level of seeing the Buddha coming through the living guru, which is one of the essential elements of tantric Buddhism. It is why Tibetan Buddhism got the name Lamaism for example, which is a little not fair to Tibetan Buddhism. But in one way it indicates this aspect. It’s a very powerful meditation. It’s like the doorway of entrance into inconceivable. It’s to first of all, allow for the inconceivability of your guru, especially in the tantric and visualizational context. So therefore, what you don’t realize is, Rimpoche is definitely my guru and that counts as my lama, indistinguishable from my other lamas. He may protest, but it is a fact. In my mind it’s a fact. On the other hand, when we are in ordinary reality, Rimpoche’s my friend. On the other hand, when we are debating, he’s full of nonsense! (Rimpoche laughs) When I’m taking the other point of view. And I reject what he says. If I can. I try. Sometimes he rejects me. Because there, it’s not a matter of, oh he said so, so I should say, oh yes. It’s a matter of whatever I can understand, and even if I’m wrong, I have to push what I say until he shows me proof- I force him in a way, to prove to me I’m wrong, then I understand myself. That’s the point of getting wisdom, you can’t get wisdom by saying yes, I respect you, guruji. That won’t work. Any guru who encourages that, is fake. They’re trying to get you to suppress your own ability. A true teacher does not want their students to suppress their own ability to conform to their own sense of themselves, a true teacher wants a student to become better than the teacher. That’s a wonderful thing in Zen, Wang po (?) [1:11:53.1] I love, says, to his teacher who said, and is telling a story about his teacher, his spiritual ancestor, he said, when you hear such a great story about the greatness of your spiritual ancestor, don’t you want to be his successor? He says to his own successor. Guy says, no, I don’t. And his surprised teacher says, you don’t want to be the successor of my teacher- in fact he is the successor, but he says, no, I don’t want to be his successor, he says. And so, this Wang po, he says, what’s the matter, why not? You see how great he is. He says, If I was to be my teacher’s successor, then my own self as a teacher would be bereft of descendants. The disciple who only equals his teacher’s merit, equals his teacher’s wisdom diminishes his teacher’s merit by half. Only the disciple who exceeds his teacher’s wisdom repays his teacher’s kindness, type of thing. So, no, I will not succeed to him. I will myself, take up the responsibility of teaching the beings. And in that way then, his teacher then says, he is truly my successor. Because he will not succeed to me, in some authoritarian line, and then there’s a beautiful commentary by the Chinese man who says, you have to see how father and son behave in that house to truly appreciate this. And actually you have to know Chinese culture and authoritarian it is, father to son, you know? Big boss father, small little son, you know? Because these spiritual things about guru and disciple of course relates to the culture’s family structure. How your model of your own parent is, this is how this business of authority comes from. And the lama relationship is fully aware of that in tantric Buddhism. So therefore, this is big experiment, you see. When I debate Rimpoche, I’m maybe not fully respectful, I don’t say, nuh nuh nuh. In Tibetan they, Lo, lo. Never sit even next to him. Sit down below. But when I do that, and I feel that that should be done, without disturbing my ability to see him as my lama in that context. This is to me, great experiment. Very crucial, I feel. Not only in the American understanding, about an understanding of Tibetan Buddhism. It could very well be very important in Tibetan own culture’s history. Because it may be a very major problem in Tibetan history. For example, today, the Tibetan government in exile has been trying, His Holiness The Dalai Lama has been trying to institute democratic forms within his community. And it’s very, very difficult. Because he gives a ritual to them on holy day, and wangs and engs (?) [1:14:37.8] and then they see him as Buddha. Then he’s trying to say, well, if I say something politically tomorrow, and you think it’s wrong, vote against it.

[1:14:49.0] So this makes real crisis for them, they don’t know how to make this shift. You see, but look at this teaching of inconceivable liberation. You have ordinary reality, with Sumeru is up there and mustard seed is here. Then this extraordinary reality with Sumeru is in the mustard seed. But yet, that extraordinary reality must not destroy the ordinary reality. Now, we have seen a situation already in this country where many, actually, where people’s relationships to their gurus, seeing their gurus as, not just buddhas, as representative of god, minister of Jesus, has Rama, Brahma, Vishnu, whoever it may be, Krishna. This spiritual thing has allowed those gurus to come into a social organization that is totally fascist. There’s no question. Buddhists also guilty, here and there. And the gurus go too crazy, and then they think they can’t make any mistake in ordinary reality. And then what is said this is coffee, then drink coffee. I mean nothing can be wrong. They themselves become trapped by this thing that they have to be perfect. And then they begin to think everything they do is perfect, then they go crazy. They become, in the ordinary level megalomaniacs, we call it. And then they become paranoid and they have to have a hundred thousand bodyguards, and they’re terrified because a megalomaniac always knows that they’re not actually God. They secretly know. And so they’re afraid that someone’s going to get them, and they’re always paranoid, right? This is classical, the megalomania paranoia syndrome. And in Tibetan culture for example, this ability to fluctuate this mental, psychological flexibility to be completely devoted in a spiritual plane, to be completely ordinary and rational in the social plane, this is a very difficult business. It’s something that Tibet only has exper- I’m not blaming Tibet about this. Tibet only has had the chance to experiment about this because, where the tantrayana really started in India and China- the siddha behaviors especially in India, somewhat on China, there was never any question of the tantric masters having social responsibility of a certain kind. You know, the social system, the kings, the political, it was completely separated and monastic institutions were very separated. And they were only a minority few people escaping here and there, some caves and forests and so the guru- you just practiced the visualization of the extraordinariness of the guru, because the guru did not tell you about some political reality. Guru didn’t come and give you instruction on chopping vegetable. Or go out and have an ordinary social organization he’s not involved with. Naropa had no such thing. Tilopa (Inaudible) [1:17:31.0] So there were ordinary social rules or functioning on their own by their own, by their own. Only in Tibet, did the tantrayana become so available to the people, and these issues so broadly known, which is a good thing, that new problems arose.

[1:17:44.5] Out of success, in other words. Because the people’s vision as a whole developed so greatly, out of the success of that teaching, then certain problems that had not been experienced and encountered before in India arose. And here in America we again encounter even new problems. So therefore, this experiment, excuse me, Rimpoche, analyzing even what we’re doing, but in this experiment, I feel it’s something very interesting and it is very- I’m so pleased with Rimpoche that he allows me to be, like, normal with him. Because he knows there’s another context when one is not normal and it wouldn’t be useful if I just thought he was just completely normal. But there’s another context where he has to be normal. And even if he may have a temptation not to be, I have to deal with that. Expose that, you know? Now in this case for example. Here Buddha says to Vimalakirti, now to come back from that to the example of what this connects to I think so strongly, Buddha says to Vimalakirti, well, you wanted to see Buddha, how do you see Buddha? And then thus addressed the Licchavi Vimalakirti said to the Buddha, lord, when I would see the Buddha, I view him by not seeing any Buddha. I don’t see any Buddha. When I would see Buddha, I don’t see the Buddha. Is he crazy? He’s talking to the Buddha. Which says, when I see Buddha, I don’t see Buddha. Why? I see him as not born from the past, not passing on to the future, and not abiding in the present time. Not even in the now. Why? He is the essence which is the reality of matter, but he is not matter. He is the essence which is the reality of sensation, but he is not sensation. He is the essence which is the reality of intellect, but he is not intellect. He is the essence which is the reality of motivation, yet he is not motivation, he goes on. He is not involved in the three worlds, he is free of the three defilements, he is associated with the triple liberation. He is endowed with the triple knowledge, and has truly attained the unattainable. The tathagata, the Buddha, has reached the extreme of detachment in regard to all things, yet he is not a reality limit. He abides in ultimate reality, yet there is no relationship between it and him. He is not produced from causes, nor does he depend on conditions. He is not without any characteristic, nor has he any characteristic. He has no single nature, nor any diversity of natures. He is not a conception, not a mental construction, nor is he a non-conception. He is neither the other shore, nor this shore, nor that between. He is neither here, nor there, nor anywhere else. He is neither this nor that. He cannot be discovered by consciousness, nor is he inherent in consciousness. He is neither darkness, nor light. He is neither name nor sign. He is neither weak, nor strong. He lives in no country or direction. He is neither good, nor evil, he is neither compounded, nor uncompounded, he cannot be explained as having any meaning whatsoever. The Buddha is neither generosity, nor avarice. Neither morality, nor immorality. Neither tolerance, nor malice. Neither effort, nor sloth. Neither concentration, nor distraction. Neither wisdom , nor foolishness.

[1:21:08.6] He is inexpressible. Neither truth, nor falsehood. Neither escape from the world, nor failure to escape from the world. Neither cause of involvement in the world, nor not a cause of involvement in the world. He is the cessation of all theory and all practice. He is neither a field of merit, nor not a filed of merit. He is neither worthy of offerings, nor unworthy of offerings. He is not an object and cannot be contacted. He is now a whole, nor a conglomeration. He surpasses all calculations. He is utterly unequalled, yet equal to the ultimate reality of things. He is matchless, especially in effort, he surpasses all measure. He does not go, he does not stay, does not pass beyond. He is neither seen, heard, distinguished, nor known. He is without any complexity having attained the equanimity of omniscient gnosis. Equal toward all things, he does not discriminate between them. He is without reproach, without excess, without corruption, without conception, and without intellectualization. He is without activity, without birth, without occurrence, without origin, without production, and without non-production. He is without fear and without subconsciousness. Without sorrow, without joy, and without strain. No verbal teaching can express him. Such is the body of the tathagata of the Buddha, and thus should he be seen. Who sees thus, truly sees, who sees otherwise sees falsely. That’s pretty something. He’s talking to the Buddha. He’s not crazy. He knows Buddha’s relatively there, he’s relatively there, but yet, relatively means not so really, really, okay? Really, it means really, but not so really really. It means in a dream-like really. It’s real, but not really real. The point of the ultimate reality being ultimate is that it’s more important. As long as there’s two, it’s more important. Once there’s no longer two, of course, even relative is ultimately important. Compassion wants the relative to be ultimately important, of course. Compassion has no duality, compassion is pure love, there’s no self for compassion, so there’s no duality. Everything is just pure love. But wisdom, aware of the complexities and dualities always wants ultimate more important because that is how beings are freed. And because that is correct. You know, the other is incorrect is an exaggeration. So in the context of this experiment, Rimpoche forgive me again to come back to that issue, it seems to me, that the key, is shunyata again. You know there is, in the master, it now- see, there is one thing against it now, for example. It’s all innocent I talked about this once we were talking about, and he said, well, you see if the disciple tries to switch consciousness all the time, and they don’t visualize their guru, as the emanation of Vajrasattva and so forth, and occasionally switch back and say, now he’s running for Senator, my guru, as a Senator what’s his record? I vote him up or down based on his voting record. I won’t vote for him as Senator because he’s my guru. But he does that, he may get some good political decision, but he impedes his progress in vajrayana.

[1:24:44.0] After all, the goal of vajrayana is when you can see poison as a nectar, and then drink it, and it is a nectar. Someone else it’s a cyanide. To you it becomes elixir of immortality, because you’ve seen it, you’ve actually transformed it by your seeing. That’s the goal of it. So if you can’t relax this practice of purification of vision, you can’t switch out of it and into it, in other words, is what he was saying from one point of view. And that’s true. I concede to that argument. You’re not a real vajrayana practitioner if you switch out, and say, oh, today guruji was behave like a pig, therefore I’m going to go and scold him today. Tomorrow then I’m going to pray to him again, and visualize him as Buddha and so on. Then, it won’t work. True. From the point of view of the guru himself, for example, or from one who has already achieved the goal of the teaching, how about then? Is the guru in the mandala imprisoned to always perceive themselves as the deity in the mandala, or to revert to the original history. Shakyamuni Buddha, you know, who is an orange robe manifestation. Then he goes inside the stupa of danyatathaga (?) [1:25:59.7] and he turns into a deity with four faces and twenty-four arms, and a consort. This, and not that. Not rest in this, and not destroy that, et cetera, right? Which destroys the guru as even worse than the disciple. Because that guru who came over from a culture where there was some restraints on their sort of authoritarianism because it was a political authority that was completely powerful, comes to a place like America where every individual has a power in some theory, and then they become like a mini fascist state in a place like America. There’s no restraint on how vast their ego will become. Except their bank account. And that even grows by the incredible flexibility of the Americans and the wealth of the country. It is the last thing that Vimalakirti does. this is one of the strange thing- I know of no other occurrence in any Buddhist sutra of such an event. After he gives that talk, Sariputra says, hey, where do you come from, Vimalakirti? And then the poor guy has to get scolded in his usual, what does this come from, nobody comes from anywhere, what does this come from, would you ask a magical illusion where they came from, blah, blah, blah. The usual. and so after that, finally Sariputra sort of gives up, kind of. Then Buddha says please, Vimalakirti, he wants to know where you come from, please show them, tell them. He says, I come from the universe Abhirati [1:27:14.5] Abhirati is the eastern universe pure land of the buddha Akshobhya. Akshobhya is central buddha in unexcelled yoga tantras. Almost always. He is the transmutation of anger, or hate, into pure, critical wisdom that discerns the ultimate purity of all things. The Dharmadatu of Shuddhodana (?) [1:27:37.3] The universe, Abhirati, and all it contains. It’s hundreds of thousands of bodhisattvas, its abodes of devas, nagas, yakshas, gandharvas, and asuras. Bounded by its Chakravara mountains, its rivers lake (Inaudible) [1:27:52.3] holds in his hand like this, like a globe, like a kind of globe like thing. And everybody in this assembly looks and sees this entire universe, like a complete hologram, you know, like multimedia. Like a hologram- (Audio cuts and resumes) [1:28:05.9] … vision of Abhirati, and the discussion of the thing and so we can end Vimalakirti’s house, we can see something the future, I think I do that honor of Omega, which I thank you (Audio cuts) especially Rimpoche, for your patience and your good humor, and your not getting too mad at me, and your losing your point, happily! (All laugh) I’ll see you another time.