Archive Result

1Soundfile 19871109GR&RTMN2_01

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche & Robert Thurman

Location ??

Topic Tibet Mystic Nation

Transcriber Vicki Cahill

Date September 15, 2021

Robert: Well trained in it. Although he lived in Nepal. But nevertheless, his insight about the story is actually quite fascinating. For example, he points out that Milarepa’s father died when he was young and he had a wicked uncle who usurped his fortune. A sort of Hamlet/Claudius story. A real oedipal story. And he and his mother were stuck off in a corner. And then his mother wanted him to get revenge against his, against his uncle. So, the mother figures were kind of transposed. And in effect he went out and he got revenge. He became a black magician, a sorcerer, at the behest of his mother. And he pulled the house down around the ears of that uncle and he killed off the entire family of his uncle. Thirty-five people, he killed. He murdered by black magic, thirty-five people when he was a young man. Then having therefore committed his, done his sort of Hamlet thing of destroying Claudius, you know. Killing his surrogate father, you know. He then just became repentant. Then he went off and he became. He founded another father, a spiritual father who was Marpa. This great translator, Marpa. And he found a new mother in Dakmema, which means selflessness. And which is wisdom, perfect wisdom. And then under this father and then the first thing this father did was, he was the most nasty father you can imagine. Marpa used to kick Milarepa. He used to beat him up. He used to make him build buildings until sores and welts were coming out of his back. He would never teach him. Secretly he would tell his wife and tell people, “This is going to be my great disciple.” But to Milarepa, he made him believe he was the scum of the earth. He was totally nasty to Milarepa. Completely, unbelievably nasty and harsh. And Milarepa man; he finally wanted to commit suicide. And many times he tried many ways to get around dealing with this man. But he couldn’t get around it. So, finally Marpa does accept him. At the point of suicide, Marpa relents. And also, because he’s; they’re having these terrible family traumas. Actually, Milarepa, one of the things in the year of Tibet that we’re going to do in Tibet House is, we hope to make an opera of Milarepa. Which it really should be an opera. Actually, when I first read, I thought it was a very serious story and I was there worrying about whether Milarepa would make it or not. And it took me about fifteen years to realize that it was, it’s a laugh riot. Milarepa’s life story. It’s very funny. Milarepa is a comedian. Tremendous comedian. He always gives teachings by singing a song. And he’s always doing something that shows the kind of comic nature of life. One of my favorite stories about him is when he’s. When he’s already a siddha. It’s when he, he goes around naked, you know, in Tibet. He was, he practices tummo, the yoga of inner heat and he’s always naked. And so, you know, he’s kind of naked. So, his sister is very embarrassed about this and she’s very annoyed with him, because she’s living a hard life, selling tsampa or what. Collecting yak dung. I don’t know what. She’s very annoyed. And very and. Her brother, she realizes has become very enlightened and is very charismatic. And he could be a big guru and have a big bunch of disciples and she could be wealthy, as the sister of the guru, you see. So, she says, “Now, we’re going to fix you up.” She comes in. Meets him in his cave. Say, “We’re going to fix you up. You’re going to get nice clothes, go downtown, teach the donors and get wealthy and have me set up a big monastery and then finally your poor sister can relax. So, I’m going to go down and get some provisions to make you some beautiful lama clothes, you know, with silks and things. Meanwhile, will you please make something to wear like a loin cloth at least. I mean, it’s disgusting, going around like some kind of nude weirdo.”

0:03:26.4 So, she gives him a beautiful blanket that she made. So, when she comes back. Trudging back from the town with these provision, Milarepa comes out and he surprises her with his new costume. He comes out from behind the rock and he goes “Ta da.” Like this. And he’s modelling his new costume. Well, do you know what he is wearing? He has a penis sheatth that he made out of this blanket. Just covering the penis, like kind of. Kind of jock strap sort of thing. That’s about it, you know. But then, as an afterthought he has finger sheaths and a thumb sheath. Then he has toe sheaths. So, that all twenty of his other digits are covered with little sheaths. And then the final touch was a little jaunty cap. So, he’s stark naked, but he has sheaths on everything that sticks out. And she goes, “Arghhhh.” Like this. And she actually has a fit. She froths and she falls down. She has like a seizure. She’s so, like, freaked out by him. So, he said, “What’s the matter sister dear?” You know. And then he just, “Well see, the thing is that I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to really scare such a scare.”, he said. She said, “You ruined my beautiful blanket, you maniac. You…blah, blah, blah”, she 0:04:36.0 screaming(? like this. He says, “I didn’t mean to really ruin your thing.” He said, “But, I knew it was really my member that was bothering you.” He said. “I don’t like to wear clothes. I’m always generating inner heat. It makes me hot, you know.” But anyway, “I thought it was my member, so I covered it up.” He said. But then he said, “I got in. That’s all I meant to do. Cut a little corner and cover my member.” He said. But then he said, “I became. I got into your sort of embarrassment and your shame consciousness and my fingers began to look very obscene to me. So, I covered the fingers. Then my toes looked off.” He said, “I admit the hat was pure show.” He said. Now, if that isn’t a comedian teaching by comedy, I don’t know what is a comedian. You know, he really was a great. So, it would be and he always sang everything. He never spoke in non-melodic voice. I mean, he spoke but he never taught. He always taught in a song. And so, I think it would make a marvelous opera. I mean, it’s really quite funny. Anyway. So, then he had this long, he actually had a very long life. And you know, Rimpoche, what you said about him being in the mountain. I used to think of him sort of as being in the mountain. But what you see in the hundred thousand songs. Of course, he spent time on this mountain. On the other hand, he interacted with all these simple villagers to a tremendous degree. And he, he had a very profound impact on the people. And as this Robert Paul pointed out, his story is a perfect symbol of, if you look at it carefully, of the supplanting of blood lineage by dharma lineage. This guy had a real insight. This Freudian guy. Beautiful. In other words, all of the Tibetans’ sort of blood lines, in the Milarepa story are cut off. The uncle’s family is killed. Milarepa’s own father is killed. His own family turns into a kind of nightmare scene. And then. And various other lines, like his sister and all of these sort of blood lines. You know, these sort of ancestral tribal blood lines are all cut away. They none of them work out. They all, like cut off their, you know, progeny. You know?

0:06:34.3 But then, from Marpa through Milarepa, this dharma line of, you know track, becomes, becomes important. So, to Milarepa, the Buddha, you know, wisdom and compassion become the most important parents. And his children are his children are through the dharma. See. So, it really is a marvelous thing where sort of the Tibetan racial sort of genetic, sort of blood sense of a tribe, of a set of generations is cut. And Tibetans become a set of dharma generations. It’s a very brilliantly. It’s almost as if some psychologists had designed it. But of course, it happened naturally. But it does account for the tremendous power of the story. But then, anyway, Milarepa meets. He adopts all of Tibet in that sense. He becomes, in that sense. That’s why I like to think of Milarepa, yogic Tibet; I call it. Because you cannot get people to transcend these inner deep levels of egoism by some royal edict. Because you build a statue or make a temple. Maybe you’ll bring a monk. It won’t happen. It requires a deep penetration to the unconscious of Milarepa. Milarepa did a dying and being reborn many times of the tantric yoga of the subtle chakra yoga and so forth that he was doing. And he was not just hiding in that cave. He was practicing this kind of tantras and going into this subtle level of where he died and was reborn many, many times. And he became sort of genetically connected to all beings. And only in that way can you actually become a Buddha. In other words, when a tantric yogi. We pull(?)0:07:56.2 and we think of tantra as the easy way. People think, “Oh, tantra is the easy way. No pain. No fuss.” You know. Wrong, you know. Tantra is. Reason that they call tantra easy in Buddhism is because, instead of accomplishing something that might take a million or ten million lifetimes. That means being born again and again and again and being a crocodile and a human and an elephant and struggling and struggling. It’s a long struggles of life. You compress that kind of struggle. And you make that kind of evolutionary achievement within one life. But that’s difficult. You have to die and be reborn many times every day. Or maybe twice a day. You go through a certain death/rebirth process. The great tantric yogi does. And in that fire, that inner fire yoga not some gimmick. You know, where they sort of light a hibachi in their stomach or something. The inner fire is the burning away of genetic impurities. The burning away of millennia of negative actions and karma. And to sort of develop transmuting sort of whole evolutionary stream in a very powerful time. That’s what that fire is. Right? It’s a hundred thousand charnel fires, on which a hundred thousand ordinary embodiments are burned by the yogi himself.

0:09:09.0 That is what Milarepa is doing up in that hill. And in the process, he is adopting many different people and he’s drawing many men and women into that circle. And they are creating the sort of energy that is really from the grass roots transforming the Tibetan national at beginning this part. Or sort of, reaching a real key stage of the transformation of the Tibetan national identity that we are talking about. Where Tibet is the country. Go to Japan. You go to other counties in Asia. And you find, everybody’s going round worshiping their ancestors like crazy. Everybody is going around thinking they’re the best race around in fact for the most part. They are all very, very tribal. Intact. They’re identity of , the “We’re the central people.” In China, “We’re the big people. You’re barbarians.” It’s like, it’s intact inside them. But Tibet, they don’t know who is their ancestor. Tibetans, you might be their ancestor. They know it. Even the dog might be their ancestor. They don’t go around ancestor; a few aristocratic families are proud of somebody they remember the name of. But most Tibetans make very little fuss about it. And you don’t feel that. When you meet Tibetans. Why people like Tibetans? Because you are immediately a member of their family in a certain way. Sometimes they can be proud and some of them are 0:10:22.3 groutfully(?) and groutfully(?) and grizzly even now and then. And they get grumpy like every other human being. But you immediately feel like you are a part of their family because they relate to all beings like they were their family. Because they conquered this kind of genetic racism that most tribes still have today, as we have seen recently. And as we can find actually, even in our own hearts. So, what one thing Buddhahood and siddhahood means is not just some sort of mystical thing far off. It means a real transforming of the heart. Opening entirely of all the knots of egotism including racial and genetic and other kinds inside the heart. And Milarepa did that. Now, I want to just read one story of Milarepa; just a few lines of it really. The time will probably not suffice, but I want to read a few lines just to show, sort of what he was. Now, he was a poet. And it’s a. He was a supreme poet. Tantrics are all the supreme poets. Why? Because as I said, the emphasis to the Mahayana is the path of the imagination. The tantric yogi is adding; he’s not, not, not substituting for the other yogas. A tantric yogi has achieved the detachment of the individual vehicle. Is able to look at his own body, his or her own body, as it were, rotting corpse and has no vanity about his or her own body, has transcended that. Has no normal passions, has transcended ordinary passions in a certain sense. And a tantric yogi has cultivated the love and compassion and the wisdom of the ordinary Mahayana. Realizing wisdom and compassion on the gross reality level. And the tantric yogi is beginning to work on the subtle reality level that is dealing with the unconscious. And in order to do that, the tantric yogi adds to those earlier achievements a cultivation of the yoga of the imagination. And in the cultivation of, because they have realized the fundamental emptiness of all things. Meaning that all things are empty of any intrinsic substantiality. Meaning that all things, nothing is ordinary anymore to the tantric yogi. Everything, even the ordinary is created by routine imaginations. So, the tantric yogi is using the imagination to transform reality of their own unconscious as well as of the world. And that makes them supreme poets, because when you work in the yoga of the imagination, you realize the power of language which in its most creative aspect is mantra and is poetry.

0:12:42.0 Poetry is where the word is not just reading off reality as sort of repeating some information about it. It’s where the word is creating reality. You know, the word is like finding a new reality turning around the conventional perception of something. So, he was a great poet. So, when people would come to him with their ordinary perception, it would collide with his extraordinary perception. And then he would sing a song about how he saw the world, compared to how they saw the world. And we cannot understand the impact of these songs if we think that it was just sort of one song and another. We don’t realize that when he sang that song. When you heard him sing that song, you saw these things, because he saw them. He didn’t just make them up. I want to make this to you; you cannot quite understand me what I mean til I make it concrete. Now, Milarepa came to a place and one yogini. He met a yogini who was a green girl with golden hair and shining eyebrows, who is leading a youth about twenty years old. This was in a dream. A green girl with golden hair, like some sort of Irish girl. Cute. And she said, “Milarepa, you will have eight petals from the lotus of your heart. This is one of them. Please bless him and bring him up.” She then disappeared. Upon awakening from his sleep, Milarepa thought over the meaning of his dream. He decided that the girl must have been a dakini and one of these goddesses of inspiration that are important to the tantric gods/tantrikas(?) 0:14:00.7, who dwell in all these realms and they also dwell inside this subtle reality in the microverse of the tantric yogi’s body. Must imply that he would have eight superlative destined heart like disciples. He said, “Today I shall probably meet a karma exhausted disciple.” That’s a kind of an awkward translation. Someone who is ripe. You know, their karma has made them ripe for the teachings; that means. “And I will try my best to help him.” With this in mind, he climbed the road leading to Bong, when he reached a road that flowed like a silver, he paused for another nap. After a while a young man riding on a black horse approached and asked, “Why, dear yogi, do you sleep here?” Milarepa parried the question by another one. “My dear patron, where are you going?” “Oh. I’m going to cross this brook and go to Din Ri near Everest.” Milarepa then explained, “Because of my age, I find it very difficult to wade through water. Could you give me a ride?” He’s asking. The young man replied, “Well, I 0:14:53.6(don’t?), am going to play with some youths over there. I’m in a very great hurry and will not be able to take you with me. Besides, it would strain my horse too much. And he might be hurt.” After saying this, he went on ahead alone without even looking back. And this guy was on this, like, very fancy black horse, you’ll see, with silver saddle and he had. He was like a dude. A total dude. He’s got. He didn’t want to strain his horse. He was like, really fussy about all his things. His equipment was fantastic. Like the sort of Porsche. He had like a BMW, Porsche and like suits. And talk about top things. This guy was tops in Tibet.

0:15:24.6 Thereupon, Milarepa with sincere concentration, entered the samadhi of great union. Holding his breath, he walked softly on the water, gliding smoothly across the stream to the other bank. He looked back and saw that the young man and the horse were floundering in the stream, making a big splash. In the meantime, the boy had noticed Milarepa walked past him on the water without sinking. Although he had seen it with his own eyes, he still could not accept it. He muttered to himself, “What’s the matter with me? Am I having a hallucination? If not, this man must have been born to float.” When he reached the other bank, he approached Milarepa and observed his feet carefully, discovering that not even his soles were wet. Whereupon a deep faith towards the Jetsun arose within the youth, the holy 0:16:04.0 even(?) if I arose within the youth, he cried out, “I didn’t realize you were an accomplished lama. I regret very much I didn’t allow you to mount my horse. Please forgive me and accept my apology.” And saying this, he bowed to Milarepa many times, with great sincerity and faith he asked “Lama from whence you come, to what order do you belong? Who is your guru? Where is your temple? Where did you come from this morning? Where will you stay tonight?” In answer Milarepa gave a sort of introduction to who he was. He said, “Ah, my good young friend. Listen to me young playboy.” He says. “Do you know who I am? I am the yogi Milarepa.” And then he goes on. He talks all these things, you know: How he’s trained. 0:16:38.4 He’s(?) Naropa’s disciple. He took the vows of Dem Chog. He met his guru, Marpa. He. It was in the four river teachings of the whispered six session. He learned the nine essentials. He mastered his subtle yoga system of his nerves, of his winds, and of his drops inside his subtle body. He can fly in the sky. Blah, blah, blah. He goes on and he sort of gives his whole story, you know. About what a great yogi he is. He sort of sings it as a song, you know. You know, like his qualifications. He gives his curriculum 0:17:04.8 b tied? up to kid. So, then the kid says, “When I’m hearing this song”, an unalterable faith in the Milarepa was established in the young man. The tears fell incessantly. He then handed the reins of his black horse to Milarepa and sang. “You are the sage, unrecognized. A man of the beyond. You are the Buddha whom one meets so rarely. Your instructions are the preaching of the nirmanakaya. The body of emanation. It seems that I have heard your name before, but I’m not sure. I may have seen you before, but I’m not sure.” And he goes on with a lot of, sort of, obeisance, you know. Obsequious. Kind of, “Oh, I love you. The great guru.” Then he says, “Let me give you my horse. You need a horse.” And he describes, he shows how he likes his horse; this guy. Now you begin to see what a dan, what a, what do you call it, fancy. Dandy. This guy is. A dandy. He says, “This black horse of mine runs like the wind. On his neck hangs a wondrous bell. On his back, the well-known pedigree is a saddle cloth, most warm and smooth. On it rests a strong wooden saddle. A girth is fashioned of steel from Mon. A dainty knot adorns his reddish crupper. Close to the headstall of reddish grey, his forelock curls like a tiger’s smile. Shining brightly like a mirrored star. Whip in hand, give your command. Shake the rein, he will obey and run. When he sees the flag before, he will win the race. When you cry, “Run fast.”, he’ll gallop at full speed. To a man of the world, a good horse is his pride. I give you this fine horse as an offering, praying that you will keep me from the hell into which I else would fall.

0:18:32.1 So, he’s sort of being, “I love you, my guru.” But what he shows in his poem, is that he loves the ordinary reality. He loves his horse. Really. He sort of like dominated by Milarepa’s power of walking on the water and all this. But he really loves his horse. That’s what he sees as the most amazing thing in reality; he sees this horse. Milarepa says, “I don’t need your horse. I have a much better horse.” He says. “A horse of the prana mind have I. That is the inner wind. I adorn with the silks; like my inner energies are my horse.” He says. “I adorn him with the silk scarves of dhyana.” Of zen that is. Contemplation. “His skin is the magic ensuing subsequent dhyana state.” That is the after-enlightenment dhyana stage. “His saddle is illuminating self-awareness. His spurs are the three; my spurs are the three visualizations. His crupper; the secret teaching of the two gates. His headstall is the prana of vital force. His forelock curl is three pointed time. Tranquility within is his adornment. Body movement is his rein. And ever flowing inspiration is his tack, is his bridle. He gallops wildly along the spine’s central path. He is a yogi’s horse, this steed of mine. By riding him, one escapes samsara’s mud. By following him, one reaches the safe land of bodhi, of enlightenment.” So, he takes. What he does is he takes. You know, to the young man, the horse was power. Like the modern Americans, you know, modern Westerner would be like a Porsche as I say, or a Rolls Royce or something. Is that powerful, beautiful thing. And he somehow takes this powerful thing, like this corvette or rolls Royce, whatever it is, and puts it inside his body. And makes out of his inner energies, this thing and he runs the Indianapolis 500 up his spine and he achieves, like, ecstasy in his brain chakra. And the kid realizes that he means it and the kid feels it. But of course, it’s not that easy to change your ordinary perception. So, then the kid tries something else. He says, “You. Well, he doesn’t want my horse but gee, his feet are bare. Maybe he’d like my shoes.” He says. And he starts in on the shoes. “These blue boots are your faithful servant. They are made of skins of elk. Wild yak and crocodile. They’re the mark of the young men.” Blah, blah, blah. And he goes on. Then Milarepa makes a pair of shoes out of. He says, “His boots are cut from the hide of the renunciation of the samsara with the leather of awaking, awakening from the transiency and delusion. He made his boots with the craftsmanship of deep faith and karma with the dye of non-clinging to the myriad forms and etcetera.” And he goes on and again he sort of creates out of these samadhi’s of his, he clothes himself in a very magnificent pair of boots. And visionarily he sorts of forces the young man to see it through his poem.

0:21:13.4 But then, that’s not that easy again, the man’s ok, he doesn’t want shoes. Maybe he wants my reddish green jacket, which is so. So, he gets his blazer, you know, his Pierre Cardin, you know, his Giorgio Armani. He said, “This beautiful jacket I have.” And he has this fancy jacket, he says, “It’s made of the best tailoring. It’s made of the reddish green Mandari cloth. The front is silk. The lining of best quality. It’s trimmed with lynx fur. A collar of otter skin matches the hem. The shoulder pads are well embroidered. It is light to wear and grand to see. In it one does not fear of the biting wind, for it is a noble’s jacket. Please accept it Reverend Father and bless me and grant your grace.” He says, “I don’t want your boring jacket.” He says; Milarepa says. And then he says, “When you wear a jacket, you can escape some wind but over the cities of the six realms of samsara, with fury blows the evil karmic wind. Driven by the senses and deprived of freedom, one wanders between life and death; roving in the between. In the bardo, sometimes one climbs the summit of the mountain in the dreamlike state between life and death. Sometimes one sleeps in the street in the bardo city of samsara. But for my part, I aspire to the realm of reality and adorn the cloth of pure mind and heart with the embroidery of immaculate discipline. Mindfulness is the tailor cutting my clothes into the shape of the three yogas. My clothes; coat’s lining is the art of uniting the three key points. I brighten the shoulder padding with the great light that shines at the time of death. I cut the hem of bardo, enlightenment to the measure, measurement of my pure magic body. This is my coat. The coat of a yogi. I have no wish for yours. Goodbye young patron and be cheerful.” He goes on. Then he tries the short coat, some sort of undercoat. And he tries even another coat that he had in his saddle bag. It’s even better. Like a big raincoat. No use. And every time, Milarepa doesn’t just say “no”. He shows he has another coat made of his achievement. And he weaves his achievement into something beautiful that he shows to the boy in a visionary poetic way. Finally, he keeps going; they keep going and they keep going and they keep going. Coats. Neck jewels. Jade. What else? Weapons. And let’s see, a knife, belt. He says, he thinks Milarepa needs a belt and a knife. Milarepa has a better belt. He says, “Other kinds of goods.” He says Then he goes to give him his land and home, so he can have a temple there. Milarepa won’t take that. And then he says, “take my sister as your servant.” Milarepa won’t accept that. He talks about the sister he has, the servant. He has an illumination woman, you know. Angelic dakinis, he has and blah, blah, blah. He doesn’t need a sister. His wonder. He says, “My wonder woman.” I like that translation. He says, “My wonder woman is the lust free shunyata.” Says Milarepa. “There is compassion on her face and kindness in her smile. The red and white elements, the inner nervous system, are her clothing. The two in one unity, her silk ornaments. Indiscriminating action is her girdle and the four blisses, her adornments. Her necklace makes all things taste as one. She is such a charming wench. The realization of truth is her origin. This is my wife; the yogi’s mate. I have no interest in your samsaric women, young patron. It’s time for you to go.”

0:24:31.2 So, now finally he says. He offers his pants. He says again, they always 0:24:36.3 get around(?) naked Milarepa’s bare butt, you know. So, he says. e Oh ,he says, you know, according, “although your enlightened mind,” He says, “Master. There is no such thing as shame or disgrace to be human and to prevent possible scandal among the people, I now sincerely offer you a pair of trousers. Please accept them.” So, then he says, “Here’s the pair of trousers.” Milarepa says, “Forget it.” and he talks about his trousers, which are much better trousers, of course. They’re all made of initiations and the compassion and etcetera and blah, blah, blah. And he just goes on this very long one. And you know, every, every element of reality, basically, of this young man’s entire reality, he tries to give to Milarepa. Trying to get him to accept something about his ordinary life. And it’s the best ordinary life in Tibetan society at that time. This guy is the total dandy. Aristocratic boy with all the wealth you could want. And Milarepa won’t have any of it. Absolutely any of it. And at the end. What it’s, what. I love, think is wonderful is that he then says to Milarepa, Involved in it; it sort of comes out over it that, you know, where, where Milarepa’s going and he are going is this place called Din Ri. And it turns out, after all of this reveling in his ordinary reality, his great horse and all of his things, this kid is paranoid. He said, “Guru, don’t go there. There’s bad people. There’s bandits. They will give you poisoned food. They will, like, beat you. They. They are awful. They’ll rob you.” And he shows he’s totally paranoid. He’s terrified of the world. And Milarepa then says, “Look. That place is like heaven to me. Everyone is nice to me. They all talk to me. They love me. They like my relatives. I have no problem.” And that’s what finally gets the kid. He realizes that the other guy is in a much better world, than his world. With all its finery and with all its beauty. And you just have to; we have to read this slowly. And you see what I mean by yogic Tibet. And he does it with everyone. Every farmer. He even does it with scholars. He goes and he gets these geshes who are very learned. And they come and they think they know the nature of reality. And they have the knowledge. And they say to him, “Did you study the Prajnaparamita transcendent wisdom. And Rimpoche, and he said, what did he say? He says, “Transcendent over here. Transcendent over there. That’s all I studied.” And what did he say? 0:26:47.0 (Tibetan RT and GR) He said, he said, “I don’t know about transcending and 0:26:53.9 (?) is descending. But all I know is.”

0:26:55.7 Rimpoche: (Tibetan:..)

Robert: When I go from here to there.

0:27:00.6 Rimpoche: (Tibetan: kali RT kali)

Robert: And that means transcendence. “When I cross the.” He made it very ordinary. He made a joke out of it anyway. And this, and then he does things like this joke, “Ok Geshe. You think you know what is reality. What is the definition of empty space? “ “Oh. The lack of obstruction.” The Geshe says. “Oh, really?” says Milarepa. “The lack of impenetrability is the definition.” Yeah. The double negative. “The lack of impenetrability is the definition of space?” “Yeah, that’s what it is.” Says the Geshe. “Didn’t you know that? You fool. You didn’t study the books.” So Milarepa says, “Well. For example, this around your hand. Is that empty space?” the guy says, “Yes.” “Would you move your hand for me please?” The guy can’t move his hand. It’s like stuck in stone. Like it’s completely solidified, this space around Milarepa, totally solidifies and he puts like a force field around. The guy can’t move at all. Then Milarepa says, “Would you say this stone is space?” “No. That’s a stone.” “Really?” And Milarepa sticks his hand through the stone 0:27:49.9 (?).”I guess I don’t know your definitions.” He says. He like waves 0:27:53.8 (?) sticks and stones. So, anyway Milarepa does this all the time.

0:27:57.3. Rimpoche: (Tibetan.. GR and RT) You know, when they asked the Vinaya rules.

Robert: Yes, yes, yes.

0:28:09.9 Rimpoche: (Tibetan: dowa…)

Robert: “I don’t know the vinaya rules.

0:28:14.0 Rimpoche: Uh huh (Tibetan:..)

Robert: But I have tamed my mind and I just wander alone.” 0:28:17.9 he says. He may, he makes many statements like that. Basically, he shows, he transformed his perception, he transformed his country. And he showed the supremacy in a way of this transformation to that of the ordinary life of the Tibetans. And it has a great powerful thing. Now. Quickly I want to run through these next bunch of slides. And then we’ll come to the later Kagyupa thing. We might run a little late tonight. I’m sorry. Those who really have to leave, leave. It’s to the line. I just have to show you because physically you have to see Milarepa’s world a little bit. Ok. These are the. These are the siddhas. I just trying to give you a taste of it in his encounter with the yogi. And they’re much more, sort of, he meets goddesses. He meets demons and demonesses. And he has the long talks with them all. The extraordinary thing. And this is Tilopa. These are many of these siddhas, sort of weirdo types. Right? Here’s another one. See, he’s living in this, that’s, that’s 0:29:09.6 (Tibetan:.RT and GR.) Naropa. This is Naropa.

Rimpoche: Naropa.

Robert: Living in the jungle with his wonder woman, who is shunyata, you know, dakini Not an ordinary … woman.

0:29:22.9 Rimpoche: (Tibetan…)

Robert: And he also had a consort. ordinary. And then this and above there is a form of Dem chog. Right?

Rimpoche: right.

Robert: It’s a special form of Hevajra, of Chakrasamvara. The bliss void indivisible Heruka form of Buddha in the space above it.

0:29:39.1 Rimpoche: (Tibetan:..)

Robert: This is Atisha. I’m just showing because I mentioned him in the context as one of the main figures in the later dissemination. We will come back at length to talk about Atisha. Sort of zooming by Atisha. Just to show.

0:29:50.6 Rimpoche: (Tibetan: ka dam…)

Robert: And these were great translator, the Ngok Lekpe Sherab, who is one of his disciples. A great translator of the second period. And this is Dromtonpa who was the first incarnation of the Dalai Lama line of Avalokiteshvara in Tibet. And was a layman however, in this lifetime and was the disciple first, the foremost disciple of Atisha.

0:30:13.3 This is Nagpopa he saved. That Kanhapa. You know, the proud one. You can see him. The umbrella thing held up by a fairy, you know. And he’s like, loping along, you know. He’s really fancy. He was great siddha too, but he didn’t quite finish his job in that life for various reasons. He kept blowing it. As Rimpoche mentioned. [I’m sorry. Wrong way.] So, Nagpopa. This is Machig Labdron.

Rimpoche: Machig Labdron

Robert: This is her. Isn’t that a good omen, Rimpoche? I didn’t know you were going to talk about her. This is Machig Labdron. The female. One of the greatest female siddhas of Tibet. She was amazing. And we might come to her a little later. There. That’s her. This is Vajrasattva himself. Form of. No, no, no, no, no.

0:30:57.8 Rimpoche: (Tibetan: ..GR and RT)

Robert: This is Dakmema. This is the selflessness. Vajra selflessness. The goddess of wisdom in her tantric form who was the incarnation, whose incarnation, whose. Marpa’s wife was her incarnation. This is Marpa himself.

0:31:17.8 Rimpoche: (Tibetan:..GR and RT)

Robert: This is Marpa.

0:31:26.9 Rimpoche: (Tibetan..GR and RT)

Robert: Milarepa’s not there. His other major disciples are there, but not Milarepa. This was a very. This is picture of Marpa. This is an illustration of some of Milarepa’s activities. And what that is, is the nine-story tower that he built. And Marpa made him first build these three forms. He made him build it up to nine stories on a semi-circular foundation, on a round foundation, on a triangular foundation. Finally, he finished it on a square foundation. And he built it all the way up, had to take it all the way down and put all the stones back to where he got them. Then get them again and build other one. He did all four. These are symbolism of the four elements of wind, fire, water and earth. And of the four chakras. There was a total internal purification he was doing, but he didn’t realize it. He thought he was; his crazy lama was making him build and take down. Building. Driving him totally insane. And here he’s meditating later. When he’s a yogi. And there, there are other stories all illustrating deeds of his life. This is from a set of Milarepa’s life story. And he always held his hand up like this when he was singing his song. He would hold it up for inspiration from the dakinis. Then he would sing his teachings as a song. And then I am going to go quickly through. This is the one that I have in color. Unfortunately, I don’t have other ones in color. This is a very beautiful set of eighteen life tangkas of Milarepa, that we want to bring in our show, but they only let us bring two. They won’t give us the room. Unfortunately. But anyway, then they’re presently existing in Stockholm. Very exquisite set. And I’ll show you them in black and white. I’ll run through them quickly. They’re not in too good order. I didn’t have them. Sorry. I didn’t get them all exactly in order.

Audience: When were these done?

Robert: They are, they are seventeenth century or could be early eighteenth century. They’re very, very beautiful. Quality of the painting.

0:33:10.9 Rimpoche: (Tibetan…..Tibet House….GR and RT)

Robert: They originally came from the area in Kham called Dagyab monastery. Belonged to a friend of ours; Dagyab Rimpoche. Here he is. These are scenes again from. Our guess, this is the time he was with his mother and so on. And some when he was living as a layman, you know. They have a great way of compressing sort of narrative on a flat surface like this around a central figure, who’s sort of telling his story, like, you know. A beautiful way. You can unpack sort of each one if we take the time. Here he is where he is in his meditative period. Out in the woods. And all these different things are happening. There’s Marpa, doing some teachings and all this, little stupas, little landscape. Wearing his cotton cloth. That’s his meditation cord around him. There he is, when he’s in his skinny period. He had a period that where he ate only nettles and he turned green. Because he was so skinny. He lived in this cave in the Himalayas during his early period. And there he’s in; see he did interact though with the people. And you have all these songs. You know, he has like, more recording of his activities with people than all of the other, like, siddhas combined, actually. That’s what’s so marvelous about him. I’m sure every siddha; if somebody was following them around, writing down their songs, would have a huge also. Because they had an immense impact on their whole society. In those marginal areas. But since they were in non-literate areas, it wasn’t recorded. This is where he ploughed the field for Marpa. This is when he first met Marpa. All these are stories that if you know his biography you’ll recognize them. We just don’t have time. Just wanted to give you a feeling of it. The marvelous liveliness of it. Sometimes he’s chased by hunters and warriors and things. And he always overcomes them eventually. And he shows them that he’s better and his way is better. This is a marvelous one. It shows that his dream that he had. That special dream that was very auspicious with Marpa, where there were these four animals on these pillars. And a vulture and a lion and a tiger and an eagle. He, Milarepa, symbolized the vulture. And the other symbolized others of Marpa’s disciples. And it symbolized the emergence of the Kagyupa school around the snow mountains with the sun and moon on either side. It’s a very auspicious dream. Marpa unpacks it in great detail. Here he’s getting initiated. This is where he was initiated by Marpa. See the mandala there by Marpa. And the deity. There’s Milarepa offering his gift to the other monks are playing the drums. And they’re. Actually that , that deity is Marpa. Because they saw Marpa transform himself into a deity during the initiation. Again, there’s some initiating going on there. I’ll go quickly, because the time is. It’s just, I want to give you a feeling of this sort of richness of the detail of it, you know. This is going to be the opera, you know, when they make this opera. It is like a. It’s really the divine comedy of Buddhism. It really is extraordinary, you know. Sort of mixture of all we see. Here’s when these hunters come and they shoot arrows. The arrows go right through them. Then finally, they lay down their bows and arrows. And they become tame. Here’s the guy who was chasing the deer. And then the deer and the dog. And the guy also became his disciple.

0:36:21.6 This is later on. And there’s a great scene of his death. Where he’s showing various manifestations to Rechungpa when he emanates himself as Dem Chog, and he emanates himself as terrific deities. Shows he’s like, spinning wheels of light above his head. And here’s his death scene, where he dies and that’s also comedy. There and there’s his body’s being burned in the fire. But it’s a real comedy; the death scene. You know, his disciple, Rechungpa comes from far away to be at his death scene. And the new disciples who are there won’t recognize Rechungpa and they won’t let him in. And he says, “Look. I’m Rechungpa. And you have to let me in. I’m the master’s earliest disciple.” They say, “We don’t even know you. You. Where’ve you been for about twenty years. We’re the disciples. You can’t come here.” So, then he; they won’t let him in actually. Milarepa sits up. The corpse sits up and says, “Let him in. He’s my disciple. You can’t light me on fire until he comes.” And he lies back and he’s dead again. Then they talk, you know, and then, then. He’s. Milarepa burns immediately as soon as he comes in. And they start squabbling over relics and Milarepa sings a song out of the fire to them; tells them, “Stop squabbling over the relics.” Then, they still squabbling over the relics. This crystal stupa comes out. See that little crystal stupa? And at the end, the dakinis come and they take Milarepa in that little crystal stupa. And they fly away with him. And all the time he’s singing. A little miniature Milarepa, this high, is singing out of the crystal stupa, “You guys really blew it. Where you could’ve had some relics but you still like being egotistical about it and blah, blah, blah. And if you want my final inheritance, go to a cave that sits such a place miles and miles away. And you’ll get my real treasure teaching” he says. So, they get. They stop fighting and they’re very sad to see the relics go, because they didn’t get the crystal stupa. The dakinis took it away. And then they rush off to this neighboring place, to this thing. And then they got; this is what I love. Then they got to this cave and they went in and deep down under the place, under the fire pit, in this cave, where he’s meditating. They found this little bundle. They opened the bundle. Inside the bundle was a knife and a lump of sugar and a note. The note was written on the cloth itself. And they were freaked out and they looked and they said, “Cut this lump of sugar in as many pieces as you want. And it all tastes the same. And there’s no special secret teaching from me to you, because you all got my special teaching all the time. Like the taste of this sugar was indistinguishable to all of you,” he said. And he said, “This is my final treasure.” He said, “And if anybody says that Milarepa accumulated gold, let his mouth be stuffed with shit.” (laughs) That’s what he wrote. Am I right? Now, I just wanted to give you a glimpse. This is Vajrayogini. This is Mrs. Buddha. Or Ms. Buddha, perhaps I should say. Ms. Buddha. This is not just a consort. This is Buddha herself, in her form of Chakrasamvara male/female indivisible but in her female form.

0:39:10.7 And this is the Naropa form. This is the Indrabhuti form and that’s the Maitripa form, which are the three major forms that the different great siddhas used to be taught by. And when you become such a siddha, you’ll meet such a being and they inspire you and they teach you and so forth. And they are very extraordinary. We may talk more about her in the future, but I just wanted to show her because she so much inspirer of the siddhas and Milarepa and so forth. It’s Vajrayogini is her name. Vajrayogini. This is marvelous. It’s the unique thing where you don’t see feminine forms of the Buddha. In bodies. Buddha bodies are usually male in almost all cultures. Only in Tibet, you see feminine Buddha. You see feminine bodhisattvas in others, but not buddhas. This is the Gampopa. The founder; Milarepa’s disciple who had also been trained by Atisha school in monastic studies and was a great scholar and a monk. And he founded Milarepa’s teaching and Marpa’s teaching on the, as a monastic order, so it became an organized order. In other words, they began to contain this tremendous yogic charisma within a monastic tradition. Milarepa, himself, had a lot of conflict with different monks around, so people think of it as a non-monastic. But it isn’t; it’s a monastic tradition as founded by Gampopa. This is the first Karmapa, Dusum Khyenpa, who was the disciple of Gampopa, and who founded one of the many branches of the Kagyupa. Which, Rimpoche, I might as well just run through this Rimpoche, then you can, please. Or you wanted to. How do you want to? Do you want to tell about them now?

Rimpoche: No, no. Go, go, go. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Robert: You, will you please tell?

Rimpoche: No, no, no. You.

Robert: Rimpoche did some research on the many branches of the Kagyupa. There are so many.

Rimpoche: Go. Go ahead.

Robert: Go ahead?

Rimpoche: Then I will

Robert: This is the Taklungpa

Rimpoche: Taklungpa

0:40:46.7 Robert: This is the founder of the Taklung branch of the Kagyupa. One of the four main; the Karmapa one, the Taklunpa one. This is the Shang branch. Shang. Lama Gungtang Lama Zhang. This is the lama named Gungtang Lama Zhang, who founded again another branch of Kagyupa. All of those were disciples of this Gampopa. This is a later Karmapa. I think, Deshin Shekpa. This is the Karmapa who was a friend of the Ming emperor, Yongle and who was the preceptor of 0:41:19.5 (Tsongkhapa when Zhaba) was a little baby. He gave Tsongkhapa his first vow. Traveling in China at that time. So, it was fourteenth century. And this is again the. I think this. I’m not sure of this one. I forgot who it is. It’s a later one. 0:41:31.5 Khakhyap(?) I think. Eastern Tibet. But I’m not sure. In the eighteenth or nineteenth century. And this I think is Mikyo Dorje. Seventeenth. This is Dem Chog in his mandala. This is again Heruka form. Chakrasamvara. Which Milarepa was practicing, which is why I wanted to show the center of the mandala with his consort. This is the same as Ms. Buddha. But this time it is Mr. and Ms. in union. But same Buddha. Same being. One being. Not two. Oh, this is the color one from that set. That’s the same one in color that we saw. Same you. I’m sorry, we’re not in color. It’s so beautiful in color. Ok. So, now, Rimpoche, please, talk about the later development. Can you? I’m sorry. I haven’t left you much time.

Rimpoche: That’s fine. Thank you.

Robert: But by now. Little bit before we go. Just to touch on the later development of the different Kagyupa. I know we’re almost to the end. But just take ten minutes with you Rimpoche. Please. I don’t want to waste your research. [You can turn that off please and get the lights.] Sorry to keep everyone. If anybody’s really pressed to go; But otherwise Rimpoche will go on for a few minutes on the later developments of the Kagyupa. That’s an order.

0:42:36.0 Rimpoche: Thank you. Now. The, the tradition of the Kagyu order of the Tibetan Buddhism is a very important order as you have already seen it. It’s a lineage linking through the Buddha Vajradhara to Tilopa, Naro and all this. So, I’ll be failure if I do not go a little detail, a little bit in this. How does the Kagyupa started and why it’s called Kagyupa and where does the word Kagyupa come from? What does it mean? Because Kagyu, Kagyu, Kagyu is very popular in the West. More popular so in the, you know, in today. So, everybody knows and hears about Kagyu within the dharma circle. But I do not know how many people really know what does the word Kagyu really means. So, I got this little piece of word say, 0:43:49.0 (Tibetan:..) Now, this is the root text where the really Kagyupa actually is set up. 0:44:05.4 (Tibetan: Marpa to je lo dro kagye du) the Marpa, the great lama Marpa, who had took all the hardship and been able to obtain four ka’bab of the 0:44:20.2 (Tibetan: nori ….) Four ka’babs of the Tilopa. The great Tilopa has four different ka’babs. That is

Robert: Transmission. Transmitted text

Rimpoche: It’s a little more than that really. 0:44:35.8 (Tibetan: sound, deshe dula and phowa) The Ghuyasamaja and then the illustration body

Robert: Illusion body

Rimpoche: Illusion body and transference

Robert: Transference of consciousness

Rimpoche: and 0:44:49.4 (Tibetan: deshe…GR and RT)

Robert: It’s something called the four truths, which is connected to Hevajra

Rimpoche: And these are the four Ka babs that we, Tilopa had. It’s not only the traditional lineage having. It’s more than that. In Sanskrit I think they really call it. I think 0:45:11.2 parasana upa. up

Robert: Oh. It’s sort of clear descent of authority

Rimpoche: Uh huh. Clear descent of authority. That’s what it is. Really. So, that’s what Tilopa had called them. And which letter. It is clear descent of authority

Robert: Oh, it’s revelatory descent

Rimpoche: Which is, sort of, Marpa be able to obtain through Naropa. So, therefore it is called Kagyu. The Ka, ka, is sort of order, descent 0:45:52.8 (opitara)

0:45:53.9 Robert: Right, right. So, the ka means that kind of revelational authority. And the gyu means the continuation of that.

Rimpoche: Continuation of that. Oh, that is what really Kagyu is boil down to. Now, I have very boring things here. Before I go through all this boring, let me talk a little bit of Marpa. Because we see the Marpa’s picture. We heard a lot about Milarepa, but we did not hear much about Marpa. I would like to say a little bit about Marpa because a very funny incident I had. About two years ago, I was in Malaysia, giving a talk, teaching. And in a place near Penang. That is the. Penang is the Malaysia island. Near the Penang, the other side on the peninsula, place called Batu Barat (?)0:46:50.8 . And before I landed there, sort of the organizers have advertised and so much thing and whatever it is. And there are a lot of Buddhists and all this, about over a thousand people are attending the talks that, wherever, sort of the place where I went in Malaysia those period. So, when I reached Batu Barat(?) 0:47:13.0 and the Chinese language there was a book. A free distribution book was distributed and before that. Before that’s before I walked in. Free distribution of book has been distributed. A thick book. And then after my talk is over and I give a little time for the questions. And then people started questioning about Marpa all the time. So, I was a, I’m not, I was not aware of it. And then one of them brought up and told me the book what was distributed here today has 0:47:52.0 written(?) how mean, how very unkind Mara is. And how coward Milarepa is. And.

Robert: (laughs) What a coward he was?

Rimpoche: Huh?

Robert: What a coward he was?

Rimpoche: Coward he was and how mean Marpa is. So, it was written in San Francisco by somebody and published by the City of Thousand Buddhas and especially distributed just before I went in area. And distributed.

0:48:26.3 So, they got up and told me this about it. And I said, “What kind of book?” And they just sort of briefly mentioned me, blah, blah, blah. So. I don’t know what to say. So, however, the next talk is Penang. So, I give detail about what really Marpa is, why Mila has to work so hard and why he has to build this buildings in different places and have to dismantle it. And I, I even went to the extent of every time when this, when this Mila faces so difficulty and having the, you know, sort of back boils(?)0:49:04.4 and cuts and on this and Marpa’s wife tried to help. And Marpa sort of get angry and beat him up. Throw him off. However on the other side, Marpa himself is sharing tears. And that part, people have not read it. Not talking about. Marpa himself was sharing tears. He’s helpless condition because Milarepa has been a position to be able to kill so many people’s murdered. And during his, even this very lifetime. So he has to purify those with hardship in for him in order to obtain total enlightenment. This position what you see in that lifetime. In that single lifetime, without going a number of eons. This part we overlook. And they only simply seeing the hardship and getting angry and kicking and throwing him out and all this sort of thing. So, that’s why, I mean, it be to the extent of a Buddhist scholar and Buddhist organization to be able, sort of, to go through the extent of writing that book and then it’s Buddhist. I think it’s because they overlook a certain position. So, anyway. So, Marpa is born in a place called Lhodrak as you know in all in southern Tibet. His father’s name is Wangchuk and mother is Gyamo Woze, I’ll cut off. Marpa born in 1096.

Robert: …0:50:33.2 ???

Rimpoche: And he also died, well I don’t have the date in, date, but it’s, you got it there. Anyway. He died at the age of eighty-six. And first he went with Nepal at the age of fifteen. Was a kid. Learned the all the Sanskrit language and started going to Nepal and picking up the Buddhist teachings. And finally, he went three times in India. And there are lot of different documents, give different things. However, I will not go into detail that. Even Marpa met Atisha, the great Atisha who came up through Tibet and Marpa was going down they met on the way and Marpa even took some teachings from the Atisha, which is very clear. And it was all documented by this later publications that have come out of Lhasa, nowadays.

0:51:37.8 And it has strong; every, everything’s very detailly documented in those different. Now, I got only two here. They are about seventeen or eighteen books on this. And they have documented everything, all this very detailly. Now, I must tell you here, another thing. The last Marpa’s going to India is after the death of Naropa. Naropa physically died already, but Marpa could not take it and saying that, “How can Naropa die without calling me?” So, he just doesn’t believe it and he went all the way to India to meet Naropa and where the place where normally he meets Naropa. Started going round the jungle. And he could not find. If you look in Marpa’s biography, it is, it is sort of, you know, really unbelievable stories there, how he went through. With the, you know, sort of meeting different birds and fires and waters and all sorts of things. Anyway, finally he be able to meet Naropa once again in that, in that, in the, in the jungles of India. And, and he sort of slept with Naropa that night. At the middle of the night Naropa wakes up, says, “Hey, son Marpa Chokyi Lodro. Get up. Get up. Your yidam 0:53:03.1Kye Dorje is up here.” Sort of, he said, “Get up. Get up. Your deity, the Hevajra mandala and everything is standing here. You get up. Get up. Get up” So, the Marpa 0:53:13.6 house they also sort of wake up and sees the complete mandala of, mandala of Hevajra. And then there are a lot of other stories related to this which is not as relevant today, so I will not say it. So, anyway in total, Marpa has so many lamas, great masters. Like 0:53:37.5 (Saraha, milumpa, lhalungpa,?) Dakima and Maitri and all this. But out of, there are something like over hundred different masters that he had in India. It’s not only Tilo, Naro and all these. And but out of these two, the great outstanding two masters, that is Naropa and Maitripa. These are known as 0:54:01.3 (Tibetan: gen.) Two great masters who have no equivalent. And that’s what, from these people, Marpa had studied, and then he went back to Tibet. He got married to lady named Dakmema as he had mentioned. And Marpa had seven sons. Seven sons. Out of seven sons, the senior most son was 0:54:30.2 Tema(?) Darma Dode. He’s famous. Now, there are a lot of stories. And how; who fought with whom and what and what. And that detail, I will not go. But if you; I’m sure later you can start.

0:54:44.3 And for, for Marpa, there are, as you see in the Mila’s thing, there are four pillars. Similarly, Marpa had four outstanding students, disciples. The first is Ngok Choku Dorje. He was one O three sixths.

Robert: One O thirty-six

Rimpoche: Huh?

Robert: 1036

Rimpoche: 1036. 1036. And lived sixty-seven years. And then, second one is Dorje Tsurton Wang Nge. And then each one of them. Yeah. Then the third one is 0:55:18.6 Tala (?) Meton Tsonpo. And four one is 0:55:22.4 Gungtang gi Milarepa. These are the four outstanding pillars of 0:55:27.7 (Tibetan: Wangi Choku Dorje… meton Tsonpo.. Gungtang gyi Milarepa) These are the four outstanding then sons of the Marpa. And as you have seen already, that Milarepa’s story and then this. As I told you, there’s four different clear authorities which Marpa had been obtained. Has been divided to the four different disciples of the Marpa. Out of which later, this whole, this Kagyu, has come out of Milarepa only, but all these, there’s four others. Three others are not really developed that way as the 0:56:21.8 Jetsun other Kagyus did. So, the Milarepa had two outstanding disciples. Is known as like, the sun and the moon. Sun and the moon. Jetsun Milarepa 0:56:32.9 (Tibetan.…)Like sun and moon that is Rechung Dorje Drakpa who, just as professor had mentioned, they didn’t even recognize, Don’t let in and Milarepa corpse gets up, “Let him in.” Goes off and all this. So, that is, the one of the sun like, like sun, outstanding disciple of Milarepa. And the second is like the moon. Dakpo Lharje.

Robert: Gampopa

0:56:57.2 Rimpoche: (Tibetan:..) Gampopa or Dakpo Lharje. So, you have seen the picture. So, Dakpo Lharje, he is known as Lharje. Why? Because he is a medical doctor. Medical doctor is called Lharje. So, that’s why he gets this name of the Lharje. So, Dakpo Lharje, now I skip all this. And anyway, Dakpo Lharje’s married. Ok. Dakpo Lharje’s married and he has a wife and two kids. And his wife is the daughter of 0:57:35.0 (shan karma/chim darma?) and he got two sons. One son and daughter. And both of them died. And his wife also died. Which is in the hundred thousand songs of Milarepa. Here it groups. So, later wasn’t it? Ok, later he went to the place called 0:57:35.0 (tempo/penyul?) where he met a kadampa Geshe, like Geshe 0:58:03.3 noringba and all others and from them he had taken the kadam tradition of the teaching. And then become a monk. Sort of old age monk. And, well, I’m sorry. It doesn’t mean anything in the West, but in Tibet when you say old age monks, it means something else. Anyway. So anyway, why he’s called Dakpo. The way the Kagyu monastery first started was he built the monastery, called 0:58:31.8 Daklha(?) Gampo in the year 1121. Year 1121. And this is the starting of the, the Dagpo Kagyu. And then Kagyu has two divisions. First, you’d really see it. If you, I, I hope we’ll be able to draw some sort of a chart like family tree type of thing. You have to draw it. Otherwise it will be difficult. But first Kagyu has two divisions. One is Dagpo Kagyu and the other is Shangpa Kagyu. So, the all other Kagyus are branch of Dagpo Kagyu. The Shangpa Kagyu is all Kagyu alone; went all by itself. Separately. But all other Kagyus you see are now the branch of Dagpo Kagyu..

0:59:18.4 So, the first one is Phagmo Dorje Gyalpo. Phagmo built 1158 a monastery called Dentsa Thel and then, it’s now 0:59:29.1(???). Ok? Dentsa Thel. And he started the Kagyu called Phagdru Kagyu. Phagdru Kagyu. It started in 1158. Then the second Kagyu is Karmapa Dusum Khyenpa. The first Karmapa had built a monastery called Tsurphu in 1189. 1189 and the first Tsurphu is known as Tsurphu Kagyu, rather than Karma Kagyu for some time. And later it become Karma Kagyu because the lama who is in charge of the monastery was the Karmapa. And the Karmapa also been divided into two; the black hat Karmapa and the red hat Karmapa. Now, I will not go. That is subdivision, too detailed. So, the Tsurphu Kagyu or later known as the Karma Kagyu is started at the year 1189 with the monastery Tsurphu. Now the; now the second, third. Isn’t that third? Now

Robert: Yes, third

Rimpoche: Third is the Barom Kagyu. The Barom Kagyu is started by the disciple of Gampopa, by Barompa; Barompa Darma Wangchuk. His name is Barompa Darma Wangchuk. He built a monastery called the Barom in the 1153. And that Kagyu is called the Barom Kagyu. Barom Kagyu. Then, the fourth one is the 1:00:57.2 Dakpo Lharje/Kagyu’s? nephew. 1:01:01.8 Tsondru Drakpa?. You have showed the picture. 1:01:04.9Tsondru Bombo/Drakpa? had built a monastery in the year 1175. That monastery is known as Tsel. Tsel. And then from there is Tshalpa Kagyu, it started. For this four Kagyus; that is Phagdru Kagyu, Karma Kagyu, and Barom Kagyu and Tshalpa Kagyu are known as four big Kagyus. Now, subdivisions. Now subdivisions out of other four. But still continues from the Phagdru. And the Phagdru disciple called the 1:01:41.5 Kyobpa Jigten Gonpo ??? Jigten Sumgon) had started the monastery called the Drikung. The monastery called the 1:01:49.3 pea(?), in place called Drikung. It is in the year 1179. And that was the beginning of the Drikung Kagyu. Drikung Kagyu. And then six, the student of Phagmo Drupa. 1:02:04.9 Thangpa Tashi Pal Taklungpa Tashi Pal in the year 1180. He had built the monastery called. Now the monastery, 1:02:15.7 Yazang(?) that’s right. Yazang. Oh. Sorry. Taklungpa Tashi Pal. He built a monastery called Taklung. And started Taklung Kagyu.

1:02:27.7 Then the Yazang was built in 1206. A monastery in Yazang. That is in south Tibet and started the Yazang Kagyu. So, these are two counted together. Now number seven then is Phagdru’s disciple again 1:02:43.1 Gyeltsa Rin Gonpo. Gyeltsa Rin Gonpo built a monastery called Trophu. Trophu. That is 1171. It started the Trophu Kagyu from there. And Phagmo Drupa; another disciple called Lingrepa Pema Dorje, Pema Dorje. And his disciple, Tsangpa Gyare built a monastery 1193. Druk. It’s called Druk. And that is the Bhutan. The whole Bhutan started from there. That is Drukpa Kagyu. The Drukpa Kagyu tradition is the Bhutan national 1:03:16.3 (nala ata dharma). You know, that’s why Bhutan is called Druk in Tibetan and that Kagyu order is called Drukpa Kagyu. Another Phagmo Drupa’s disciple called Marpa Sherab Yeshe. You called the picture some Khampa lama, from Kham area. This was Marpa Sherab Yeshe. He built monastery 1167 in Kham. 1:03:39.5 Pu Sho dgon(?). And from Pu Sho dgon it started 1:03:42.8 Martsang Kagyu. Number ten. Phagmo Drupa’s disciple Yelpa Yeshe Tsek has built Yelpuk monastery, Started Yelpa Kagyu in 1171. And Phakmo’s disciple called 1:03:58.4 (?????Gyergom Tsultrim Senge/shukseb jetsun choying zangmo????) has built a Shuksep monastery. This is totally female nunnery. Shuksep monastery and decided this; this division order is called Shuksep Kagyu. And well, now, I think. How many you counted? There are so many of them.

Robert: Twelve

1:04:22.7 Rimpoche: So, anyway I’m going to. Yeah, that’s right. So, I’m going to skip it. And I’m going to skip it because I’ve got all the data’s worked out today, the dates and all this. So, anyway there are totally, if you call it Kagyu. They’re all Phagdru Kagyu’s part of it. Part of the 1:04:41.3 tero Phagmo Kagyus under the Phagmo Kagyu is all this divisions of the Kagyus have come. And each one of them are different orders. The Karma Kagyu, the Drikung Kagyu, the 1:04:52.7 tshalpa Kagyu, the Barom Kagyu. All these and there are twelve of them. Twelve of them. So, twelve different orders. Each one of these founders has been great, greatest masters. Now, I don’t have the time to really go through. But if you look at the, for example, look at the Karma Kagyu. From the Karmapa Dusum Khyenpa til the late His Holiness Gyalwa Karmapa, sixteenth Rangjung Rigpe Dorje. Up to that, a great many sort of really, really one after the another and have come up and developed Karma Kagyu. And so many, hundreds of different disciples and various places, even the United States has good experience up to the Chogyam Trungpa. Chogyam Trungpa is the Karma Kagyu lineage. So, up to the Chogyam Trungpa, late Chogyam Trungpa Rimpoche. Up to that is. Up to now. That is up to now, right? So, it is the Karma Kagyu lineage has developed. So does the Taklung Kagyu. So does the Barom Kagyu. So does the Drikung. Now in the West, the Karma is the mostly known. Shangpa Kagyu is a little bit known because of Kalu Rimpoche. And not very much. But then Drikung, you know a little bit because of His Holiness Drikung made two tours around. And but all other Kagyus, all sixteen, all other twelve or ten, all their, sort of all their orders, everything is still intact. I do not know how large it is, but it is still intact. And all this twelve different Kagyu orders are still functioning and their monasteries there. The head lamas are there. Their founder’s reincarnations are there. There are practitioners there. Everything going on. And it is still a living tradition. Ok. Now the division of these Kagyus is not based on the, out of. You know, the Buddhist divisions are normally it is not the tradition where you belongs to. It is not the who lama who you have met. It is not that way. The division is based on out of three things. One is the viewpoint. Two is the behavior. Three is the gom. 1:07:31.9 (Tibetan:.)

Robert: Meditation

1:07:34.2 Rimpoche: Meditation. So, out of all these three, these divisions of the Kagyu is totally based on the approach. Approach. Now, for example. Ok. Now. So, the difference between the Karma Kagyu and Drikung Kagyu. Ok. The Karma Kagyu. I rather read out of book here. Rather than I say. Ok? Because I don’t know what I’m going to say.

1:08:23.7 (Tibetan:…..) 1:09:10.8 Ok. Did you get that? You heard. Good. Thank you. So, it said the presentation of the Phagmo Kagyu’s essence is the in-depth sort of really, really seeing the nature of the pure nature of the mind. Which is emphasized. Very briefly. Pure nature of mind which is emphasized from the beginning level onwards and take people through that sort of passage. So, this is the special Phagmo Kagyu’s tradition. But in the, in the system of the sutra, there is a way of taking. In the system of tantra, there is a way of taking. So, each one of them clearly mentioned. I will not go into the detail for it is not relevant much. And now, for example, Drikung Kagyu, 1:10:09.6 (Tibetan: ….) Drikung Kagyu takes the other way around. Instead of presenting this way, they say, “It is like a lion, but if you don’t have a, called five efforts, it’s a lion without eyes.” So, they insist on the 1:10:33.0 (Tibetan: nande) first. The nande, that is the five points. That is: the meditation on the bodhicitta, meditating yourself in the deity’s form, you’re meditating your master as a total devotional protector, and then meditating on the emptiness and, and dedication and prayer. These are the, they emphasized before you do anything. So, this is the. Like that, there are each one of these Kagyus, slightly detail, detail, subtle difference of approach. Or each one of them has been there. And this book particularly, I found very useful because it is published by the Chinese. Communist Chinese. Worked out detailly what the really each one of these orders has different of their views, their viewpoints, behaviors and meditational points and divisions and detailly worked out. So, unfortunately, it’s only in Tibetan. If you can read it, you’re most welcome. (laughs)

Robert: Actually was worked out by Tibetan scholars.

Rimpoche: Yeah. Tibetan scholars.

Robert: Chinese

Rimpoche: Well, yeah. I’m just joking, you know.

Robert: Yeah the Chinese

1:11:57.3 Rimpoche: Because I mean. Excuse me. I’m not. I really doesn’t mean Chinese published it. they are a great many Tibetan scholars are still living in Tibet. And these people had worked out and they had given the opportunity of the modern Sanskrit approach, by working with the Chinese and other professors. And they sort of really worked out in the scientific modern presentation. Where it’s easy for me to get them, read it and get to you where the point is. Otherwse old Tibetan system, I got the book here. It has no indents and no distinct. I have to spend time to read all through in order to get one point. But here I don’t have to do it. So, anyway. So, these are the very briefly mentionig about the general Kagyupa system and how Kagyu works. And unfortunately, we’re supposed to have a Kagyupa abbot is supposed to be here. But. So, he couldn’t make it and so.

Robert: He went to Florida instead

Rimpoche: So, well. And so.

Robert: He was coming. He’s supposed to come on the fourteenth of December now. This Khenchen Konchog Gyeltsen who wrote this book. Which we could also recommend. So, Drikung Kagyu section of the fivefold form of Mahamudra, as Rimpoche mentioned. It’s Garland of Mahamudra practices by Konchog Khenchen Gyaltsen and Katherine Rogers. And Khenpo himself had to go to Florida, but he’s coming in December, he says.

Rimpoche: So, therefore

Robert: Make up for it in December

Rimpoche: Yeah. Therefore, we substituted and presented quite straightforward clear picture of the Kagyu tradition. I thank-you. I hope, well, I’m sorry, it’s really running, sort of late. I hope

Robert: It’s running a bit late.

Rimpoche: ..set aside. 1:13:38.5 Shall we take any questions? Or.

Robert: Ok. Great. It’s not time for questions. Remember. Note them down. And we’ll take them up at the beginning of the next session, next week.

Rimpoche: Good

Robert: I mean, some people have to get home

Rimpoche: Thank you

Robert: ??????? I almost forgot,???? Professor, big research you did.

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