Archive Result

1Soundfile 19871116GR&RTMN1_01

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche & Robert Thurman

Location ??

Topic Tibet Mystic Nation

Transcriber Vicki Cahill

Date September 29, 2021

0:00:22.2 (interference before this) Robert: This is not going to open ?????, What we’ve started is Tibet House. Which exists in the astral plane only, so far. Does not have a physical location. But it is located wherever it is functioning. And from the moment we begin these meetings, it is functioning here. And we are teaching about the history and this is sort of, well I’ll put it this way; culture of Tibet. And we are very delighted to have you with us tonight. Now, we are going to begin with some discussion. I am going to begin orienting to us to the Sakyapas. I have an outline that will come up; that they’re xeroxing, that I can give to you. And what I want to explain; to introduce about the Sakyapas is several elements that the Sakyapa school really is the initiator of in Tibet. In the period of the later thread of the dharma. Of which we began talking about last time and more in terms of; we talked about yogic Tibet and Milarepa, as you remember. And we talked about Milarepa as representing a certain phase in the history of Tibetan Buddhism. Of the yogic full-scale, and yogic appropriation via Tibetan of the dharma and the practice of that path. And the Sakyapas, they are the initiators of the full-scale Tibetan style monastic system. Not that they built the first monastery, but they built the first strong monastic establishment of the later period. And in that, it developed all the traditions of scholarship and of the curriculum of monastic training and so forth that then marked many of the schools of Buddhism later in Tibet. From which 0:02:01.1 Tsongkapa(?) for example adopted much of his later system. And that’s one thing for which they are very important. And the second thing for which the Sakyapa moment is very important is that; they began to experiment with various models under which the monastic establishment began to take responsibility for the social governance; for the social situation. This which becomes eventually, as you remember in my overview of our original classes said to be kind of a unique factor in Tibetan history. This begins with the Sakyapas. Not only with the relationship between the Sakyapa Pandita. Sakya Pandita and Phagpa. Chogyal Phagpa. Which I will show. I’m going to show some slides with some of the pictures of some of these important figures. But also, before that, in the relationship between the aristocratic families known as the Khon family. K H O N family and the Sakya monastery. As you know, the Buddha left his kingdom in India, just to recapitulate for some of you. I think most of you. How many of you here were not here in the earlier classes, by the way? Yeah. Very. Oh yeah. A few of you. So, I don’t need to recapitulate too much. Most of you were here.

0:03:19.5 If you see Buddhism as having three phases; the monastic phase, a messianic phase. A monastic phase which is normally called Theravada, focusing on monastic Buddhism and the monastic community. And of the individual liberation. A messianic phase which is usually known as Mahayana, focusing on not only the individual’s liberation. Including that, but going beyond that in trying to develop a social ethic and seek the liberation of all living beings. And beyond that messianic phase, an apocalyptic phase, or phase of immediate revelation, Tantrayana as it is usually called, seeking to accomplish this universal liberation, not only in sort of the normal part, future of the millennial time to which the messianic or Mahayana vehicle looks. But in the more immediate reality by a sort of mystic transposition of dimension. Which is the characteristic of, and to achieve it more immediately; a characteristic of apocalyptic Buddhism. Or, you know, Theravada, Mahayana, and Vajrayana as the three layers. Right? Now, in that light, therefore, the monastic institution in India had always remained associated with monastic Buddhism in a way. And therefore, has always emphasized its renunciation or its apartness or separateness from the normal social reality. And in Tibet, in the early phase, it was also somewhat the case. The monastic institution was separated from say, Padmasambhava’s lay disciples who practiced tantra. And the king operated himself in another kind of a sphere. Now with the later dissemination, because of the fact that the later dissemination did not involve the revival of any centralized dynasty, political dynasty in Tibet. There was no new Dharma King. They were not into conquering any more. Tibet had already become too pacific to be, sort of, be conquerors by the time of the later dissemination. That is the eleventh century, tenth, eleventh and twelfth century. And so ,therefore, and also the aristocratic families were not into sort of setting themselves up as dynasties or warlord or whatever. And so, there was a kind of power vacuum, you could say, on the social and political level. Who was going to be involved in administering and running and managing the countryside? You know, collecting taxes and enforcing things and taking care of the social situation. Now, it so happened that at this time in Tibet, the most important sort of public institutions were the monasteries. The monasteries produced the most important, most educated people. And so, the monasteries had the greatest legitimacy as large scale public institution. So, therefore, when you looked to someone to get something done, like how to arrange this and that piece of land; how to create a treaty. Who’s going to talk to some neighboring central Asian conqueror who is running around and sort of speak for everyone. You look naturally to the head of the monasteries.

0:06:11.6 So, the monasteries began to experiment with a completely new form in the history of Buddhist monasteries. They began to experiment with actually being in charge of the government. And running, which was in a way, kind of opposite, but it’s like full circle in a way, from the time of Shakyamuni, where he was a prince and a king and was supposed to be in charge of the government. He abandoned the government, because he said, governments normally can’t accomplish what people’s really aims are. He didn’t just abandon it, because he wanted to be a hippie or something. He 0:06:41.8(should change???) that. He told his father, he said, “I’ll run the government, Dad, if I can do what really my subjects need. I can really address their real problems.” You know, politicians got to do to take care of the people’s problems. 0:06:54.6 Yeah, well I must(?) honest politician. He wanted to get up and give them a speech and take care of their real problems. And he noticed what were their real problems. Suffering of birth, sickness, old age and death. So, being the king, he figured he couldn’t do much about them. It took spiritual methods to really do something about these real problems, the fundamental problems of suffering. So, he went out and he established a monastic community, apart from the normal social community. Now, therefore, when you come to the tenth, eleventh century in Tibet, to the year 1073, When Konchok Gyalpo, the leader of the Sakyapa, the leader of the Khon family, who had gone and studied with many siddhas and many masters. And he founded the Sakya monastery. This was the noble family of that region. It was the most powerful political force in that region, expressing its power through a monastery. And from this time, members of that family, slowly, because they also. They sort of. They were legitimate by being members of that family. And then they also, which was the ruling family of that area. And then they also were legitimate by being great dharma masters and enlightened sages. And so, they began to experiment with the fusion of these two roles. Then on top of having developed that on a local, on a local level, and this having worked very beautifully. And satisfied the people in that. Excuse me. Satisfied the people in that region very well. In other words, it was creating great enlightenment, great good vibrations. The countryside was prospering. There was no war and it was peaceful. People were happy. They were enjoying this sort of lama, lama administration. Because monks are pretty good. You know, they don’t have lot of relatives. They don’t get into so much nepotism. You know, they have some, but, I mean they’re not, they don’t have biological descendants or they’re not into having, you know, create, you know, getting a big bank account to leave to their kin and so forth. They are, they’re taught abstract philosophy. Their also good at social administration. They have a natural bureaucracy in running a big monastery. So, they were doing very well. So, they were doing so well that when it came time for Tibet to have to sort of, define itself as a national entity, again, which happened under the pressure of the Mongol conquest of all the world actually. Not just Asia. But as you know the Mongols at that time conquered the whole world, pretty much. I don’t know if you all know that. Their empire was actually the largest empire that anybody ever made in the history of the world. Larger than the British empire. The Mongolian. Even without battleships, or anything, this war system.

0:09:32.1 And because the Mongols were conquering the whole world, the Tibetans had to deal with them. So, they had to be defined as something. And who did the Tibetans look to, to represent them, but the Sakya, the leader of the Sakya order. As being, that region being the most well governed, the most peaceful, the most stable, the most happy part of Tibet, in a way. So, they looked to that for legit, for legitimacy and the Sakyapas represented Tibet to the Mongols. They sort of carried the news to the Mongols that the Tibetans were not going to challenge the Mongols. They were going to recognize the Mongols as the conquerors of Asia; of the world, actually. And as you know, first Sakya Pandita went and he became the preceptor. He was, by his great sanctity and his great magical powers and his great wisdom and his kindness, which details will be, Rimpoche, Lama Pema will tell you about the details. But he went and he converted, began to convert the Mongol king Godan, whose name was Godan. And after that, other Mongol princes. And then his nephew, Phagpa, eventually became Imperial Preceptor of Kublai Khan. You know, the great Khan when Marco Polo visited. And if any of you saw Marco Polo on television, that character who was going around in the back corridor with Marco Polo in the Yuan court was Phagpa. One of the hierarchs of the Sakyapa order. If you remember seeing Marco Polo; he was the 0:10:49.4side(?) of Marco Polo. Phagpa figured in it. They made him a little more sinister than he really was in Marco Polo’s own story. And because there was a certain competition in the Khan Empire between historians, Christians, Taoists, Confucians and Buddhists, and Phagpa sort of won that competition. So, they kind of were annoyed with that; a little bit. Since he was the Imperial Preceptor. Anyway, this then established a certain pattern of lama rule over Tibet, which lasted from about 1260 when Phagpa was named the lord ruler of Tibet and it was divided into thirteen different regions, administered centrally by the Sakyapas. Until 1360, the 1360’s when. Or. No, no. 1340 I think, or fifty, when the Phagmodrupa, the new secular dynasty arose in Tibet. So, it was a period of over a, over a, about a century. Now, let me quickly show you some of these; give you a sense of. [can you turn on the slide projector, please?] Give you some sense of this and I will conclude my section. Some sense. Some sense of the people who actually played the role in history. And I believe this is Virupa 0:11:53.6 (?? Tibetan: ) Now, I’m showing this. This gentleman is, I think I showed this slide last week. But I included again today, because this is Virupa. Lama Virupa. 0:12:07.0 (Tibetan:RT and GR) And so, this is the siddha Virupa. Rimpoche is scandalized. It’s actually left/right reversed. But I said, it’s really not that. Virupa will forgive us, you know, I know if that’s 0:12:18.9 (??) switched around.

0:12:20.7 And he is once the great siddha from whom, who is specially looked to by the Sakyapa patriarchs as the originator of some of the most important teachings that they, that they met, that they used, that were central to the Sakyapa synthesis of Buddhism. That’s why this begins with him for those Indian origins. She, I put here her again. This is Vajra Nairatmya. Also left right reverse. As they sit, this side is right. I’m sorry. So, anyway, this is Vajra Nairatmya, meaning, the diamond selflessness, which is Buddha in her female form. And around her are many Sakya siddhas as you can see them. And also, for all the Sakya masters. This is a painting, very early and very beautiful painting of the Sakya period. We will actually use this painting in our Treasures of Tibet show that Tibet House will do in a couple of years. This is French collection and we will be using, using this one. And it is a very remarkably well-preserved quality, very beautiful classical style, known as the Sakyapa style. This is the Siddha Damarupa who was an important disciple of Virupa. And who was the direct master of the master named Gayadhara, who was, I believe, a direct teacher of Drogmi, if I have the lineage correct. I hope I do. But anyway, he was an important figure. Damarupa means, one who has a drum, which should be in his right hand. Apparently, all of these are going to be reversed. I’m sorry. But, anyway, this is another very ancient and very beautiful piece. You can see how beautifully painted this is. This is unretouched. And the color is from the, probably we have too much light here. Could someone get the light? The color is from the.

Rimpoche: It is outside.

Robert: Thirteenth Century. The Switch is outside. Out the door.

Audience: 0:13:56.0 no….it’s on a different … Rimpoche.

Rimpoche: Oh, is that so?

Robert: Where is it?

Audience: It’s around the corner.

Rimpoche: Oh. That’s right

Audience: ……

Robert: Thank you. You can see what a beautiful. …See it. 0:14:19.3 See how brilliant and fantastic. We’ll also have this in the show. This will be one of the ones in the show. Look at that! This is a jewel painting. It’s actually a jewel painting. It is a jewel painting. It was painted with jewels. Ground up very fine; embedded in a kind of glue to make it; make it the pigment. And then painting with that. So, you have, actually; these are actually; this is actually lapis lazuli. Lapis lazuli and this is coral and so forth. 0:14:44.9 (??) to agates and so on. So it actually is jewels; painted with jewels and therefore it lasts for centuries, without any decay. Look at it. Incredible thing. And, what?

Audience: What’s the time on this?

Robert: Oh, it is painted. And this is from around the thirteenth century. This is, 0:15:04.2 (Tibetan:. ) This is a form of Hevajra which I included here as the central yidam for contemplative Buddha, form of the Buddha. Central to the Sakyapa order. I’m going to go through. This is another rather ancient and very marvelous painting of yidams here with many Sakyapa lamas above. Which is also. See this Hevajra Buddha form was very, very important to the, in the Sakya order. It is their major yidam, I guess you could say. 0:15:27.9 (Tibetan: ) Major yidam. Hevajra. He Dorje.

0:15:33.1 Now, I wasn’t sure about this. I thought this is Konchog Gyalpo. However, I’m not sure. I couldn’t be sure. I couldn’t find the book that I found this from. Is it possible or not? 0:15:44.1 (Tibetan…) You don’t think so?

Lama Pema: Maybe, probably. 0:14:44.9(??)

Robert: I see. Well it is

Lama Pema: I have no idea

Robert: a master in the order but not the original founder. I had thought this might be the original founder. These are four Sakya lamas which are unidentified in the text. But I thought these might be some. There is, if you note, one of them is a layman with a white robe.

Lama Pema: Yes.

Robert: Perhaps you can identify this lama.

Lama Pema: I’m guessing it just may be Drakpa Gyaltsen

Robert: Drakpa Gyaltsen. That’s right, who was the son of, what, a Sachen (Kunga) Nyingpo.

Lama Pema: Kunga Nyingpo

Robert: Son. I see

Lama Pema: And other one is 0:16:22.3 Lobpon Sonam Tsemo(?)

Robert: This one here is

Lama Pema: That could be. I’m just guessing it be Sonam Tsemo

Robert: Sonam Tsemo

Lama Pema: And this is Sapan

Robert: Sakya Pandita down here.

Lama Pema: This 0:16:34.6 (?)

Robert: And this one we’re not. One is. Could it be Phagpa, you said? No. Vajrapani incarnation. He has bell and vajra.

Audience: Could be Phagpa.

Robert: I think Phagpa. So, these are the, all four of the five early patriarchs of the Sakya. Which in a sheet that will come back. Oh, it is here. Oh good. I give this kind of an outline sheet that you can pass it around. You know, one by one, take one and pass this second page, which can follow it. And so, these, some of these names in other words and their dates will be there. I’m going to quickly do this. I don’t. This is Sachen Kunga Nyingpo. I think. Marvelous painting. This is one of the great, founding figures of Sakyapa. First of the five First Patriarchs. And this identifies these as Sachen Kunga Nyingpo. Hope it’s correct. That’s how the 0:17:31.3 (?) identifies. And it’s a marvelous, this is a marvelous painting, as you can see of a later period. This is a seventeenth century painting. It was from the book, from a painting commissioned by the fifth Dalai Lama to commemorate 0:17:45.2 (all elements?) and eras in Tibetan history. Which we’ve, we’ve already shown you some examples from. It has a biography of him around there, which we will be, we could examine in great detail. But we won’t. Anyway, that’s the founder of Sakyapa order.

0:17:59.5 And this is Sakya Pandita, the great master. And who was a debater who knew Sanskrit. He. Well, I’ll leave the detail and biography to Pemala. So, I won’t tell them. But there are some wonderful stories about him. And he’s debating with one Indian yogi here, which is a famous incident. And that is Sakya Pandita. One of the greatest scholars, incarnations of Manjushri, and greatest scholars that Tibet ever knew. This is another one of Sakya Pandita. This one is an older painting of Sakya Pandita.

Lama Pema: It’s more a meditative 0:18:24.4 posture (?)

Robert: Right. There his face is more in meditative pose. This is very beautiful old painting. This one is. Fifteenth century. This is Phagpa. Supposed to be. Chogyal Phagpa. Everything is left/right reversed. I’m sorry. This is Chogyal Phagpa. The one who became the preceptor of Kublai Khan, with scenes from his biography around him. And. Oh, that’s the same Sakya Pandita. These are two lamas, who, I’m not sure who they are. They are later Sakyapa lamas. Very beautiful painting of the Ngor tradition. I am not sure if they are two of the 0:19:05.2 Ngor (?) lamas.

Lama Pema: They could be. I saw the picture some time. Could be.

Robert: Yes.

Lama Pema: One might have 0:19:10.3 (?) might be Kunga Zangpo.

Robert: The founder of the Ngor tradition of Sakya Phagpa; Kunga Zangpo.

Lama Pema: The other one is more like Tsar; Tsarchen Losal Gyatso

Robert: Tsar. The other one is found with the Tsar. Because Ngor and Tsar are later on in the sixteenth century, I think. Yeah, sixteenth. Two major 0:19:27.5 clients(??). Above that you can see, in direct line the lama with the white robes are some of the Sakyapa heirarchs who are laymen. And then other monks and so forth. But those are all different types. These are all the Sakyapa deities, important deities, down below. This is beautiful again. Very jewel like and beautiful painting. From about sixteenth century; that one. This is again another two siddha masters and I’m not sure, as I say. They are not identified and I’m not sure who they are. Just skip these paintings. And we can catch the flavor of these later masters of the tremendous 0:19:56.3 length(?). This, begin to get this feeling of this huge you know about. You see, for example on the shoulders, you see here a bell and a vajra, and yet you have the monk’s robes, and we know that they are often, well by this time they are also political rulers. With the exception of the local region. But you begin to get this sort of, synthesis of the three vehicles. These are two other Ngor Khenpos I see. From Ngor. But exactly which ones, I’m not sure. Why they kept this style of painting, two together, I’m also not sure. Do you have any; do you have a theory about this 0:20:26.2 phenonema(?).

Lama Pema: I have noticed they usually earliest paintings.

Robert: The earliest paintings. Something to do with the system, maybe, of two kinds of preceptors. In the Ngor monastery, they would paint two together.

Lama Pema: Yeah. Or I noticed two kind of teacher/student at the same time.

Robert: Right. Right. And this is. Who 0:20:48.0 ???

Lama Pema: Looks like Kunga Nyingpo/Zangpo (?)

Robert: This would be the founder of the Ngor monastery. Different kind of a pose. The Lama Kunga Nyingpo.

Lama Pema: Kunga Zangpo

Robert: Kunga Zangpo. I’m sorry.

Lama Pema: Kunga Zangpo.

Robert: The founder of Ngor monastery. Who was incarnation of. This is a later one. Ngor Khenpo, who I don’t know. In a later century. Also, very beautiful painting. All these paintings are really very real treasures.

0:21:15.8 See, here’s a Ngor Khenpo. See, he has a book in his hand, very scholarly. You see. So, you get the scholar, sage. The sword over his shoulder indicates that he’s an incarnation of Manjushri. Above him, though you see Hevajra on the one side and Chakrasamvara Dem Chog on the other. Two yidam forms of the Buddha. Although very fierce protectors and so forth, so that sort of mystical side and you’re, you’re interest; did not; I include this becauase this was a very old, very marvelous painting of Mahakala and the Mahakala was a very important protector for the Sakyapa. And 0:21:49.7 (Tibetan..??) That’s amazing painting, then we’re going to have that at the show, by the way. Going to put that; that will be on Tibet, Tibet house. This is another one, a form of Mahakala. Very old one, very, 0:22:07.3 in pose of(???) Sakyas. And this is the famous good one, the 0:22:11.6 Panjera Naga, guardian of the tent, that they called him. Mahakala. And what does it mean? Could have 0:22:20.2 (Tibetan:..). So, what he is holding. It’s interesting, you know. Although he’s a fierce protector inherited/ Tibetan inherited from India. What he is holding in his arm is a kind of wooden drum that is beaten to assemble monks for. So, it shows him to be a protector of the monastery. You see. This thing that’s; the thing across his arm there. You know you beat it. It’s like a big wooden thing. It makes a noise. You see it in head monastery. Ok. I think that’s enough. Just a few more Mahakala. That’s enough. Can you turn off now. So, now I will turn the floor over. That’s my brief introduction to the Sakyapas. You will see. We have such a lot. [Could we have a light, please? You will see that summarized in the; whoever succeeded with the light. Philip could you stand with the light again? Because the light…..Alright, Thank you] And as you notice, the section one here, these main points that I made are summarized here just in a sort of little mini outline. And now to turn to Gelek Rimpoche, who will very briefly give us a little more siddha songs.

Rimpoche: 0:23:18.1 (Tibetan:..) Is that for me?

Robert: No

Rimpoche: 0:23:20.6 (Tibetan:..)

Robert: Oh, you want to go straight. Ok. I thought you were going to add something about siddhas again. But if you don’t want to.

Rimpoche: Ok. Fine.

Robert: Very briefly. So, there are fifteen of them. Have you got your microphone?

Rimpoche: Microphone should. If you could let it go for a minute please. Thank you.

Robert: You’re next.

0:24:09.3 Rimpoche: As Professor Thurman has given a interesting and good introduction to the Sakya tradition and of course, we are very fortunate to have a real Sakya teacher, Sakya monk, and Sakya practitioner to represent the Sakya system of presentation. Unlike, last two Mondays, we have a Kagyu and Nyingma but we both been sort of presenting it on behalf. But today, we are very fortunate to have you together. So, I really don’t want to take much time on it. So, but I was told to speak about a little bit of siddhas. As you have seen the photo of Virupa here.

Robert: Virupa yeah

Rimpoche: The Virupa here and today when we look at the Virupa with that sort of photograph. And with intention of knowing he is fully enlightened Buddha and we see is nice and interesting and maybe some people may bow down and prostrated, fold their hands together and all this. But if you really wanted to look into the Virupa’s life, incidentally, I just had been looking through and this very particular book here I have. And I been having the opportunity of spending whole day with old friends, 0:26:08.4 Philip/family(?) today, all day. And they’ve been kind enough to take me to the Columbia library. So, I got this book out. And just now, I looked through and found Virupa’s biography in here. So, if you really wanted to know the Virupa, he happens to be the man who is looking after the animals of a certain kingdom in India. One of the king. And he’s looking after the animals. In other words, you know, he’s cleaning the, what do you call it, that?

Robert: Dung.

Rimpoche: Yeah. The area where the animals been locked in, he’s cleaning them and washing the, the, buffalos and feeding them and that’s his job. So, that is the great Virupa. And he’s born and he had studied that and he is a student and disciple of the great Nagpopa. I said Naropa. I did think I mentioned about Naropa to you. Earlier in connection with Marpa Lotsawa’s studies. So, he’s a disciple of Naropa. And after studying with Naropa a little while, and he happens to be travelling from one to another different cities in India.

0:27:42.8 And one day, what had happened to him is; it happens to be what we call it, tsoh days, nowadays. This is the, what I picked it up from our dharma friends. They call it a tsoh day. Do you understand? I thought that’s English. Probably not. So, the tsoh is a Tibetan word. Day is English word. So, I thought that’s why you have trouble of understanding it. Actually, what happens, every month, twice in a day, two important days where the dakinis. Is that word familiar to you? How many people doesn’t know the dakinis? Please raise their hands. Ok. Oh. Quite a number of them. Alright. I have to explain to you. Briefly, there are two kinds of things; dakas and dakinis. A Sanskrit word for identifying certain particular group of persons. Dakas are the man and dakinis are the females. These are the real sangha of tantrayana or the Vajrayana Sangha are the dakas and dakinis. The true sangha of the Vajrayana. Ok. In the, as the Professor had said, three different Buddhisms. What did you say? The individual vehicle and messianic vehicle. Am I saying the right thing?

Robert: Yeah

Rimpoche: apocalyptic vehicle. Is 0:29:08.6 (?) or?

Robert: ….(?) Apocalyptic

Rimpoche: Apocalyptic. Whatever. We call it Vajrayana, tantrayana, diamond yana, this and that and now we have this, what is? Apocalyptic yana. .All these. And the sangha in the order of the Vajrayana is the dakas and dakinis. And these are the powerful female living in the male form, or not male form. I mean the human being form. Sorry. The word for the man is me in Tibetan. So I get that; get mixed up all the time. So, me in Tibetan, people always intend to translate as man. But actually, it means human being. So, that’s why I’m getting mixed up. So, in the human form, a living, or some are formless. They are not ghost. Don’t worry. They are not ghosts. Ok? So, they’re very important helpers to help, assist and to work with you, to push you through the spiritual practice and through the path. So, that’s why they are the real Vajrayana sanghas.

Robert: I like to call them, angels.

0:30:26.3 Rimpoche: Ok. Well, the angels in the Chinese tradition are another different angels. Right? So. Ok. No objection. No argument. Do have something to argue with you. Perhaps both of you, maybe. Most likely. So. So. So, now what I’m talking is 0:30:50 Dromtonpa(?). Right?

Robert: Virupa

Rimpoche: Sorry. Virupa. And then after, he’d been studying and then went into an area sort of where a capitol, where large capitol of Indian kingdom at that time. He went through that. And he’s the strangest person in the community. And community really did not accept him so well. And they have a little trouble with him to adjust. And so, he sort of kept quiet, himself, all the time. And one day, it happened to be time for him to show his power and also to make the people ripe on the time. To be able to practice and accept the teachings. So, he went at the middle of the market area. The market. Right? It’s like a bazaar area. And sat in the middle of the road and sit there .And one of those three most important persons of the town, who had been travelling around and saw him sitting there. Saw him. According to this book. Ok? (laughs) Saw him sitting there meditating. So, they talked to each other and one of them said, told the other, “This fellow is blind.” So, they sort of goes. He’s meditating. So, he goes and rub his hands. He doesn’t look. So they say. I mean, he says, “We know this fellow. He’s blind.” Ok. So, one said, “No, no, no. He’s not blind. He’s crazy. Totally crazy. And dumb. Who can’t speak or can’t hear it; anything.” And one of them said, “No. this is dead body. It is not even human being. Just dead body. Corpse standing there.” That’s what they remarks. So, suddenly he opened his eyes and look around and he said, “As you have said, you may become the same.” So, suddenly what happens; one of them is dropped dead. One of them become blind. And one of them become dumb, could not speak words. That’s what happened. So, they realized he is a highly developed person and they’re, I will not drop there. Ok. They’re relations and came and beg 0:33:24. (?) All this. And he prayed and as a result of prayer, they revived. They’re no longer dumb. They’ll be able to speak. And they become normal human beings. This is how he managed to get himself accepted in the community.

0:33:41.8 I guess that’s enough about siddhas really tonight. And one thing I would like to agree with what your presentation.

Robert: Aha.

Rimpoche: with all due respect to you. And I briefly had discussion with Lama Pema as well. Is the style of the painting, which professor has introduced as in Sakya style. He asked us, Lama Pema, “Well, would you really say that as Sakya style?” and he said, yes. And he said, “Yes, when you look at it, you can distinctively recognize that as in the Sakya style.”

Robert: Yes. But

Rimpoche: However. (laughs) I’m so sorry. I beg to differ. That statement. And I had this same argument with His Holiness the 0:34:39.9 (wod chenpo(?)) Rimpoche, about presenting certain style as a Drepung style. And that was a couple of. Two years ago. So, actually, excuse me. Oh. Maybe I have to go a little bit, this side. That maybe my fault. Sorry. So, what really happened about this. I do not know whatever the reason is. I guess my mind. I guess. What happens is, certain tradition of this painting style been developed in certain areas, more than other areas. And people intend to accept that as this particular style and that particular style. However, as far as my knowledge of the Tibetan painting is concerned. If you look into the 0:35:39.9 (Tibetan: gundan yonten gyaltso…) Encyclopedia of Tibet. Tibetica. Called. By the great Kunden Yonten Gyaltso. He called himself, as one of. I think he follows most of the Kagyu tradition. But sort of, you know, accepted every path. And great scholar. So, if I remember the words correctly, it says, 0:36:07.8 (Tibetan: Rim…) So, the Tibetan painting has been divided into three categories of originated from Nepal. 0:36:21.5 (Tibetan:. Rim o pa..) So, the original is: 0:36:28.5 (Tibetan: me re, ke re, and dru wa che wa lo ..) The chewa system. Chewa is the rat or the

Robert: mouse

0:36:38.5 Rimpoche: Mouse. The why it’s called mouse system. Because this particular person lama, incarnate lama had been travelling from all over the place for looking at that style that he can picked it up, like mouse run everywhere to get food. So, the system what he developed is called

Robert: Mouse

Rimpoche: Yeah. 0:37:00.8 (Tibetan:..) a mouse system. These had picked it up in the Nepal border and travelled towards the close land and style based on the Nepalese style with their, sort of, knowing their. Professors know they are all different. Right? Not only this thing, but the Kashmiri styles and the Gupta styles and the Nepalese style and when you look in this and they have the influence of the Nepalese styles of the drawing; four square lines. And in addition to that, using certain different colors which adopted. Well, I will not go detail now. So, those of most of what we call it now, they presented as Sakya style, as well as the Drepung style all fall into the category of 0:37:57.1 (drupa chewa) styles. If you do not accept that, that’s very hard to present the real, the 0:38:04.6 drupa chewa authentic piece of the 0:38:07.9 (cho lo?). Which is going to be lost. And the religious sort of sect, the rather the order, which is linked with the style is only Karma Gardri as far as my knowledge is concerned. The Karma Gardri has been developed from the, from the Karmapa when he travelled to China and he took painter with him, so 0:38:34.6 (Tibetan: …) They are persons with the name of three. Tashis. They are three different persons, each one of them called 0:38:44.2 (Tashi Namkha…) From this Tashi, three Tashis the system of the Karma Gardri has been started. So, the Karma Gardri now is, if you listened today, I won’t talk to you. There are certain ways of looking at it. Colors of different pictures and drawing sceneries, hands and all this. So. But this is just for argument sake and for presentation, for knowledge as well as for consideration of the people. I don’t know. Whatever. So, that’s all. And I’ll just stop here. And I don’t want to take the floor much. Thank you.

Robert: Thank you Rimpoche. I. I withdraw saying Sakyapa style.

Rimpoche: Not yet. Not yet. Ok. You can study, argue and finally we can come to a conclusion.

Robert: There is no question that certainly there are more monasteries, each have certain styles. And we call it just in relation to the monastery. Maybe it will be better not to call it a style. Call it such and such a style and then a tradition of that monastery. So, we can

Rimpoche: No objection

Robert: modify

Rimpoche: I’m good (laughs) Thank you

Robert: Modify our category.

Rimpoche: Um hum.

Robert: Ok

Rimpoche: Thank you

Robert: So, thank you. So, now we turn over; this would be two different sets of introduction. [I’m afraid I almost left. Give me the other mike. This one is getting loose. It’s ok.] We now turn over the mike to Lama Pema.Wangdak and for the main central course of the evening. And it is on the outline. I put here, an outline of quintessential teachings of the Sakyapa. But Lama Pema has his own plan and structure; the next hour or so. And I think that will be preferable and he will touch on some of these matters. So, now the floor is entirely yours, Lama.

0:40:28.8 Lama Pema: Oh. Thank you. So, basically saying, same topic we’ve done. So, first of all, I feel very good as a Tibetan to kind of present the Tibetan side of education or things that we can share in the West. You know, stand by the Tibet office, Tibet House, and have 0:40:53.1 (seventy-three???). To me it’s very good. To do that part of the job. And maybe, probably, out of that, rest of you, maybe get some out of that too. So, this is a long, long journey. So, these are beginnings. So, we’ll start from the beginning. If they 0:41:09.9 (ask issues?) to do those on great gratitude. To doing that part of path. So, the, as you may have already gone through the previous lectures, so you have maybe a lot of ideas by now, the basic history of the Tibetan. What I am trying to do about is based on specific part of the history where Sakya tradition of the Tibetan Buddhism has to do with the Tibetan history as a whole. The. And it’s part of the role of the teacher or king or ruler or as society, whatever. So, the. Now, here we have my outline for the talk is what we have called Lamdre teaching here. Now, the Lamdre longer teaching is basically is a teaching that’s usually known to the Sakyapa, which meant actually the overall teaching of the Buddha’s teaching put together into these specific systematic, kind of systematic way presented. Lam means path. Dre means result. So, the. First of all, to talk within the context of the monastic institution in Tibet, we may be. It will be helpful a little bit to consider the words of the Buddha. In other words, ask the teacher of his follower. Of his followers, suggest, the Tibetans are. So, before the Buddha passed away, there were a lot of doubts and a lot of questions that students haven’t asked. A lot of questions that many raised right after his passing away. And one of the most, you know, common question was just as we always do, is what we should 0:43:05.6 (recording stops)

0:43:14.9 (recording resumes) long. Who will be our teacher and what is that thing we look for? So, Buddha basically said that, rely on the vinaya. He didn’t say, any other person; say you should ask him. He didn’t say anything else. He said, “rely on the monastic laws.” Means vinaya rules. Now there are more disciplines that he has taught for the monks and for the nuns, for the lay people and for the 0:43:43.0 novitiates(?). So, that means the, in Buddhism the overall importance is 0:43:49.2 relayed(?) from the monastic system of law/life(?). Because the overall, what do you call it? Measurement of whether, how far the Buddha’s teaching will ever. How you measure the Buddha’s teaching is still existent in this world. The measurement is whether the vinaya rules still exist in the world. So, that means, in order to maintain this. Maintain the pure rule, the law the Buddha laid down as foundation of the overall teaching that he taught over his fifty years of life, teaching career. The importance should be laid on the community who uphold this, these teachings. The moral discipline. The monastic institute, the rules and regulations. So, there comes the importance of the monastic system. So, so, as you will know, of all the religions in the whole world, all the monastic systems you know of in all the different country religion, the Buddhism house is so systematic; this, the definite rule, how the monasticism should be taught by the original teacher himself. Not by the letter/later on is 0:45:04.2 (??? and a rap???) we have the same rules and regulations still extant. And still are being practiced and prevalent still in the form of sutra; in the Buddhist canon, they call works and so forth. So, the, as the Buddhist, what they should look for is as long as it’s sangha exists, then there is dharma, there is dharma. If they, if you don’t see sangha at all, maybe in another part of the world, in some part of the world right now, if you don’t see sangha, that means there is no dharma. In the same way that finally, the time will come, when after, what do you call? Ten, five hundred, what do you call? Then ten five. Buddha himself gave the time, how long these teachings will remain. He said, “It will remain ten five hundred years.” So, right now, according to our own calendar we’re on the fifth. So, we have two and a half, two thousand five hundred years and we still can have the Buddha’s teaching.

0:46:07.8 So, of all the teaching that he taught, the vinaya is the main thing upon which all the forms of Buddhism, such as Theravadan Buddhism, Paramitayana Buddhism, Vajrayana Buddhism is then laid down. In other words, one cannot take away this moral basic disciplines of our individual self and social discipline and then to place this kind of religious spiritual practice. There is no way we can do that. So, at the foundation of this. So, we can look at in both way, individual spiritual foundation or the social spiritual foundation; one cannot do away, without this. Now, one misconception you may have is this, what kind of, monastic means like me, maybe wearing a different robe, some different clothes. And trying to shy away a little bit from the world, you know. That kind of thing. Maybe that is thing, but you have to look for something else to understand what actually monastic community means. That is one thing for your consideration. Now, the importance of the monastic, of the discipline, is stressed, if you look through the lines of Tibetan Buddhism. First of all, you may have already heard it, but I want to say again. It says one, that Buddhism is founded in Tibet seventh century, should I say. Seventh century. The, even though it was founded by the great tantric teacher, Padmasambhava, the second next step. Because that was to actually stabilize. To make the ground firm. On the firm ground. The second step, the king and the ministers did is to invite the teacher called Shantarakshita, right after to set up. Right after, to set up this monastic system. So, the. So that, you can see the importance. In other word, the very moment you light up the stove, the second thing is, you want to boil something. You just keep running. In the same way, the first moment when the Tibetans settled itself, to make themselves home as Buddhist country, then they actually, importing the teacher to set up the monastic system in Tibet. And that’s how it began, when the seven of Tibetans were, were ordained as the, what do you call it? The first Tibetan monks on probation, basically to see whether, how it is going to work in Tibet. Whether it is possible or not. So, one of the, one of the monks was this, the great teacher of this heritage, great Khon race that Sakyapa is famous for. The Sakyapa as. The Sakyapa as the, tradition hasn’t yet proved, hasn’t risen yet. But that is the same teacher, who later down, to the, towards the end of the tenth century, then the actual Sakyapa grew up now.

0:49:13.1 So, the. That is one way of looking at it. And second way of looking at it is after the great destruction that went through again, the end of the ninth century or something. I’m not good at numbers. So. So, Buddhism went down, big degeneration. Then the, the. After that, the Tibetans split, all non-central political thing. So, for the next over two hundred and ninety years Tibet actually sort of remain, kind of, what do you call? Fiefdoms, you know. Small chieftains, looting each other. But they’re life again, is pretty much spiritual oriented. It didn’t mean that they forgot their spiritual lives. Even at that time, when Buddhism went down, 0:50:00.2 (????) the teacher basically fled from the center of Tibet towards the east. And they are called. 0:50:06.8 (Tibetan: mar yo sam sun) is a kind of initial name for his teacher. They later on, came back when the, when there a small peace. And they came back and slowly ordain other people and then came back to reinstitute the monastic system back in the center Tibet. That, that was after this big devastation. So, second, second renewal, what we call revival of the monastic system happened from outer Tibet, where actually, I’m from. This is by this king called Yeshe O, Lha Lama Yeshe O, and Jangchub O. A uncle and a nephew. So, you can see this, the king always patronizes. In Tibetan life, you always have this other king or the wealthy person to patronize things, just as we always have some kind of institution to give financial kind of profits, you know. (laughs) So, there is already spontaneous response. And they, what they did was they first sent twenty-one, Tibetan young smart Tibetans to India. And there was the same tradition they had been practicing for the last three or four hundred years. But they then again, are from the Western side of Tibet and then sent. One of them was the great teacher called the Rinchen Sangpo. Lochen Rinchen Sangpo. The great translator, Rinchen Sangpo. That what he’s known, named to be. And this one person, together with the Legpai Sherab, and 0:51:43.1 Loden Jungne and other smaller and greater translators then they invite. They’re called kind of new system tantra, that has been brought from India directly. Instead of trying to revive the old system of tantra, that we have had at that time. That is the second part of the monastic institution. At that time when that same king invited the teacher called Pala, Dharmapala together with two other Palas. 0:52:16.1 Pala namsum (?), called, you know praji(?) pala, Aguna(?) pala and they slowly reinstitute this monastic system. Third monastic system later on happened when Sakya, Sakyapandita when he came of age; at the age of twenty-seven, and then took the ordination from the Kashmirian, the northern Indian teacher called Sakyasribhadra. From there this lineage is called the Pandita lineage of this monastic system.

0:52:49.2 So, these all talking about later revival of the Buddhism in Tibet. Now, this is again, history, and at the actual foundation becomes the basis. Now, the. Now, the, that is the general focus. But then, every now and then in the Tibetan life history, there is always a group or family, usually a king, takes over this, like the, special responsibility towards something. Just as we also do in the West, you know. Sometime you have very much 0:53:22.1 oriented(?) towards them all (?) writing novels or something like that. You know, father a novelist, mother a novelist and so on and so forth. Here, the Sakyapa, the tradition, the history of the Sakyapa is intermixed, totally took responsible by this thing called, family name called Khon family. Is the actual 0:53:43.4 hereditary(?) Khon family. And that took around the seventh century. And the first version of this story is a little bit unrecorded. But as Sakyapa teacher and myself, I have to believe that the actually Khon lineage is called, very specialize. One of the highest race in Tibet. Just as like the Prince of Wales in England, or something, the same thing. Same idea. This hereditary race is so important, because it has three reasons there. First, this race came from the place called, the celestial realm called Clear light celestial realms. Three brother came down to the world and the youngest took a human wife and then he fought the war of the human beings. And then elder brother came to help him. But finally, actually, elder brother settled the, the idea actually gives it called “fight between the evil and the good.” The evil and the. And these are the ones who fought over the evil. Took the wife of the evil being and married. And then, there came, a call a child. Called, his name is called Khon. Khon means a conflict. The child born out of conflict, his name is called.

0:55:01.9 So, he had two special reasons. Because first his spiritual race. Second his, is the mix of good and evil, that the combination there. Third, the. So, this Khon family, until at the time of this first introduction of Buddhism in Tibet, all like sort of, the chieftains of the seven tribes in Tibet. Ruling their own fiefdoms and so forth. One, at the time of the king Trisong Detsen, in eighth century, he then, one of the Khon family becomes a great warrior and fighter. And became the minister who later became the, who’s son later became the first ordained monk of the bodhisattva Shantarakshita. And that was the first time the Khon raised itself as the what we call in Tibetan term, the holy family. That took itself as a responsibility in the dharmic activities. Then, after that, about ten or twelve or thirteen generations become actually are the practitioner of the Nyingmapa school of Buddhism. Until one Khonchog Gyalpo’s brother, when he saw a lot of relapses, lot of downfalls, degeneration of the specific tantra, then finally gave up this whole thinking that the tantra, the secret system, the tantra is now exposed. And he said, there will no longer be any 0:56:41.1 tuptok, meaning enlightened beings are practicing this degenerated practice. So, basically they’ve hidden all the teachings. What we call terma, hidden treasure. But of all the teachings they have in the Nyingma system, they can’t totally give up because the Dharmapalas, protectors, won’t let it go. So, the Sakyapa have to accept the teaching called Vajrakilaya, which is very much the same as the Nyingmapa teaching that you know right now these days. So, this Khon, this Khon Khonchog Gyalpo, was then advised by brother to study under the Drokmi Lotsawa. This great Lotsawa. The, the. Just as, you know, number two, the translator Drokmi and this Drokmi. This the first such Tibetan teacher, who first actually went to Nepal and then to India. So, it is just like we going to Tibet and India right now. Now, the difference is, it is like matter of life and death those days. You know, right now, we can always come back if you’re discouraged studying one or two months. So usually, it is the 0:57:54.1 ??? borders there and they spend a lot, ten, twenty years like that.

0:58:00.3 Drokmi Lotsawa first studied under the Nepalese teacher called, Shantipa. There are many Shantipas, so we don’t worry. Studied for together with two of his friends. They all went together, sponsored by the same, same sponsor. And this Drokmi was really a great scholar. He pick up the Sanskrit methods, colloquial and started translating within a year. And he already assumed the name Lotsawa right there within the year. His two other friends were not really good at it. So, they went around here and there and they didn’t discouraged. But they later on maybe decided to go to the Vajrasana, to the Bodh Gaya to study further. So, finally they went and studied further three years. And there he met the king, the great teacher, actual direct one of the, one of the, indirect lineage students of the Virupa. The great first progenitor of these Lam Dre teachings. His name is called the 0:59:07.4 dowa dorje, means Viravajra, in Sanskrit. So, from this teacher, he studied about eighty major tantras and countless other minor tantras. So, at that time, those were the days that you can study anything from your birth to death. And even that much won’t accomplish that much. To study all the knowledge that you can study in India, such as the languages, Sanskrit languages, grammar, tantras, sutras and so on and so forth. So, it’s like going to 0:59:41.4 jewel island. You know, samadhi, you can spend a time. You can learn. So, Drokmi first, even though he studied under this teacher, he didn’t quite receive this actual complete system thing called Lamdre system. So, usually it is a tradition of the Tibetan teacher to, to, to prophesize this next coming teacher. So, you go such and such. And then you will meet such and such. It’s very traditional of these enlightened teachers to indicate further teachers from whom they have to supposed to study. And he was introduced to, it’s called the tantric. He was told by his teacher that you don’t have to worry, that you will be meet by a teacher who will come to your door to teach you. You don’t have to go to his place. So, when he went back to Tibet, there is a teacher in Tibet, instead of in India called Gayadhara, the Indian great teacher. Now Gayadhara teacher, as a role of teacher in Tibet, is almost like the Pundit Atisha. Because it’s almost at the same time, a lot of India change is going on, just like now we have here. Lot of India change. One of the main reasons is, after all the relapses and degenerate practices, there is a big separation of the practitioners, between the sutra practitioners type of, you know, paramita type and then the practitioners called Vajrayana, the esoteric type of Buddhism.

1:01:16.1 So, there is no authoritative teacher to look for to really come to a conclusion how these overall systems of the Buddha, the three levels and this high level can be integrated and understood and can be practiced. There is no teacher. That is the main reason is how Lama Yeshe O, sent his. Although he gave up his own life to, to, to invite Atisha and; I don’t want to go into detail. And he lost his life, in that regards, but he sent his nephew to go to India to invite. So, Atisha was the main reason. That is the main reason why he was invited; to have such a teacher so the Tibetans can look for to have a complete idea what is the, is the dharma is after all about. The Tibetans, themselves, have it, you know, are too much degenerated there. Even at the time of Atisha was little bit difficult. Didn’t yet quite come to the conclusion for the public that that actually after all is the sutric and tantric system works. Detail like water and heat, you know, starting boiling each other. So, the, that is the, one of the main, overall systems Atisha brought. The Gayadhara served to the Tibetan life is this; to integrate the existing teaching in a more systematic way in this Lamdre teaching. So, sometimes this Lamdre teaching is called, the path including the result. It is one term that we use. The reason is that it includes the, you know, causal path, such as, you know, Mahayana, Hinayana and resultant path, we call the Vajrayana itself. So, it includes the overall, kind of. It is not a synthesis. In other words, somebody put it and synthesized and presented. It is a compact kind of synthetic itself. It is a synthetic presented for one person in one life can practice the complete entire path. That we are right now facing, these days. The problem, how to 1:03:31.0 introduce/interpret/integrate(?) this practice. This practice. Oh, Lama Pema, what should I do. I’m doing this, do that. That kind of problem comes up. So, the, this Lamdre teaching is first learned, studied, by the Drokmi Lotsawa. And this Lamdre teaching is first comes from the teacher called Virupa, that Rimpoche already gave some idea. This Virupa is the teacher from Eastern India, probably Bengal. I’m not good historian. So. I’m sorry, anything I make wrong. Call 1:04:03.9 Somapura(?). He came from the place 1:04:05.9 Somapura(?). And became a monk for; and practiced tantric Buddhism by practicing the tantra called Chakrasamvara. On the basis of yidam called Vajra Varahi, for twelve years, reciting one hundred, one hundred thousand times the mantra of this specific practice. And nothing happened.

1:04:30.0 So, the later on, he, some historian says, went to Nalanda and became a great teacher called 1:04:36.0 Palden Chogyam. Dharmapala. And then still, as a great monk, practitioner, he remained the secret practitioner, practitioner of the Vajrayana. So, when he gave up his hope, the Vajra Nairatmya. He just saw the picture, the female aspect of the enlightened being. See, actually, finally, when he threw his mala, brought the mala back and sort of, 1:05:01.0 Dagmema(?) saw it. “Don’t worry, my son. Don’t worry, my son. You just keep. I will be your guide” So, the very next day he got the first bhumi as bodhisattva’s level. And for the next five successive days, he reached the enlightened stage called sixth level of enlightened bodhisattvas. So, in this way, he become enlightened through the direct teaching of the Vajra Nairatmya. And his teaching later on , it’s very succinct. It is not a big corpus work, as we see now. It is like few pages. So, the, he then started acting strange as just here Rimpoche related. And the, the. I want to explain a little bit. You know, you may be surprised during the teacher acts strange. You know. Because you may be confusion what to do with that. (laughs) The reason is, when the teacher actually acts strange, it is actually to put in one word, it’s to show that they transcend our form of reality. They’ve gone through that. That doesn’t exist. Free there. That is basically what it is. In other word, they’ve realized no more afflictions. No more entanglements with the kind of reality we have built up. So, that, they usually do after they become enlightened, called chopa. How do you call it? 1:06:31.3 (Tibetan: )

Robert: Well. Behavior.

1:06:33.5 Lama Pema: Behavior. When they finally lack the doctrine practice through six year and what do you call. Practice. Yeah. When you really 1:06:39.6 (Tibetan: ..chogin..), what do you call? Practice. Yeah. Something like that. When you’re really enlightened, then you practice. Then you’re free. From the social norms. And you do exactly within the enlightened state to subdue, to help, to protect, to, to, teach. You use your power, just as Rimpoche said already. So, he started eating the meats of the pigeons in the monastery and drinking the wine, what we call chang. You know. See. And then all the monks are very upset, you know. He’s transgressing the, you know, basic rules. And then he said, “Don’t worry. I will give up my monastic robes” So, he offered back the monk’s robe and then he started going. Then one of the monks said, “Where are you going? “ “What do you care? Since you all kicked me out.” Then he started going, wandering around in the areas where the 1:07:33.3 (feet and? wandering leads?). So, he came across Ganga River. And he asked there, of a woman talks there and said, he asked some road, and they didn’t answer. And he become very angry. And stopped the river into two halves and he walked by. So, in this way, he started kind of subduing the people who cannot be subdued by sweet talks, or gradual teaching. A direct method he used. So, at one point, when he was asked by a monk, “Where are you going?” “I don’t care where I’m going.” He just walked over the pond, you know. He just walked over the river, basically. So, this in that way the great teacher actually subdued all through his direct powers. You can go on and on with stories like that. And it will be really helpful for those people who believe in that, who don’t believe it is just a fairy’s tale.

Audience: Have you experienced that yourself?

Lama Pema: Pardon?

Audience: Have you had that kind of experience?

Lama Pema: No, not at all.

Audience: Ok. …Not you particular, have you observed it? in other teachers?

Lama Pema: In one, I can say. Not that, you know, totally strange. But I can, in a very natural state, I can say especially when I was little. Yeah. So, the. So, this great teacher, then later on, subduing the overall India, subduing. He went later on, down to the South India, taught many people and so forth. Now, this is that same teacher, from whom the Lamdre system comes from. From him the overall tantric system is passed on from word to word, you know. From what we call mouth to ear. Mouth to ear system. It came all the way to Tibet. Almost all the systems except the paramitayana, lower system are mostly kind of a secret. And you even don’t hear about it. If you ask the teacher to teach me something and teacher will just kick you out saying, “I never heard of such thing. “ So, such is the secrecy and later on the Tibetans finally through the Drokmi Lotsawa, they got this teaching. Now, these are the Sakyapas are the sole inheritor of this specific, the original inheritor of this Lamdre system. But that doesn’t mean the other traditions of the Tibetan Buddhism does not have this system. They have that. Because the lineage doesn’t confine to a specific teaching, the lineage actually emphasizes specific teaching, they have it. So, they are constant in flux and interchange of the teachings within the different schools and different lineages either, even.

1:10:24.1 Though this one the teaching, then through the; through the Drokmi Lotsawa, it was then taught to the first Khon family called Khon Konchok Gyalpo. Basically, it’s not the direct, what do you call, the, the; there are other teachers such as the, the, Shakya Yeshe, another translator and then Sakyan Kunga, Sakyan Kunga Nyingpo and so forth. So, the first Khon family is called Khon Konchok Gyalpo who built for the first time. In order, after studying for over forty, sixty years of his life. To actually reinstitute the monastic system to finally to set up. This, to school, for to impart this specific teaching. And that was in the year 1073, in eleventh century. And that first, the Sakya word, the Sakya came to be because Sa means earth. Kya means white. The first monastery was built on the kind of white patch of ground on the mountain called Ponpori. And there was exactly, according to what happened, Atisha passed by the same road, fifty years ago. And he said, 1:11:44.8 so it’s(?) technically same area. Saying, the one he’s 1:11:48.6 teaching (?) us/Shigatse(?) “What are you doing towards this direction?” He said. “I see the seven deities and they to, ah, so forth, mantras. He can see and he said, he prophesized after fifty years there will be a constant, continual emanation of Manjushri bodhisattva, Avalokiteshvara and Vajrapani will continue and their work of benefiting the sentient beings of this area.” Same prophecy has been given by the Padmasambhava about five hundred years ago, already. So, that actually, this, the prophecy changed to, when they first, the Konchog Gyalpo built the monastery and gave birth to a son called Kunga Nyingpo. Sachen Kunga Nyingpo. We just saw actually a picture on one of the slide. The other teacher looking teacher. The. So, the, until basically, until around that area, era, the Lamdre was passed on from mouth to ear. And Khon Konchog Gyalpo is the major teacher who finally took to work, to put it down in its written format. And that too, he simply wrote a different commentary on the different aspects of the Lamdre. He didn’t wrote it as complete entire corpus the Lamdre system. As the systematic way. So, he’s writing regarding about the, regarding the Lamdre system called 1:13:22.9 (Tibetan: Nam gyo cho nyen). Twelve commentaries to the Lamdre teachings. So, the. So, this Khon Konchog Gyalpo is the first, what do you call it, patriarch. The founding father of the Sakya tradition. And he’s the emanation of the bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara.

1:13:45.0 He has four sons and three, four of them are regarded as, four of them regarded as the emanation of Manjushri. And then the first son went to India to study, passed away there. Can’t stand the heat. And the second two son become great teacher for exposing the next second and third, patriarchs of the Sakyapa tradition, called, Lodren(?) Sonam Tsemo, who was very young and died at a very young age. But became famous founding father of the Sakyapa tradition. And then, next to him, his younger brother, the Jetsun Drakpa Gyeltsen, he took charge of Sakyapa school there. And then the, the, one of the brothers, the fourth brother is the father of the Sapan, Sakya Pandita. So, you can see; the father and the two sons and the nephew and a great-nephew are basically the four founding, five founding patriarchs of the Sakya traditions. So, the. Now, I want to emphasize a little bit. Please tell me the time.

Robert: Go ahead.

Lama Pema: The. The. So far, the Sakyapa teachers, the Khon family, who undertook this special teachings in many different forms, such as Lamdre, such as 1:15:07.8 thirteen(?) golden teacher, teachings. You know, very secretly kept up and so forth are very much on the basis, what do you call it, internal, meditated esoteric practitioners through which they help the sentient beings. Now, that doesn’t mean that there’s not a learned scholar or anything. There are great learned scholars in Tibet itself. But they didn’t really came out as the prominent figure in terms of, what do you call it, learned, what do you call, in the Tibetan life history. The fourth, basically the fifth person the kind of line in the patriarch is the patriarch and the fourth as the four founding father is the Sapan called Sakya Pandita.

1:16:02.6 This word Sapan, means Sakya Pandita. Pandita is an Indian name and this is the great teacher who basically set the bar to one of the most famous, most influential, most great teacher. One of the most great teacher of the Tibetan history, as a teacher, as a, as a leader, as a, a, a, you can name him anything, basically. And the. And that he is the first such teacher who actually, actualized the Buddhist point of view. What we call, to be a Buddha, to be a bodhisattva. One has to undertake, what we call, to learn everything what is in the sphere of learning. So, in the Indian system, that is called, ten or five major. Sometimes five major signs of learning. The overall universal learning can be classified in this five signs of learning. So, he actually, is the first teacher who actually come up to show the Tibetan the path towards that goal. That is not a separation from the bodhisattva. It is part of the dharma practice. So, you can call the Sapan the great sage and great mahasiddha. You can call him the great poet. You can call him the great musician. You can call him great artist. You can call him great logician. You can call him great grammatician. Whatever! Because that actually is person five. His life and his. Between his life that he gave to the Tibetan world. So, first of all, he as the young, the little boy asked about learning the Buddhist system. It’s very easy to understand is that he’s not a teacher out of blue. He’s not the type of teacher like Milarepa. You know, in other words, starting from the scratch. Maybe you don’t understand.

Robert: Starting from scratch.

Lama Pema: Right

Robert: Yeah, yeah.

Lama Pema: In other words, we as Buddhist system believe the overall result that you see, that you can produce, that you can effect, has to come from the causes. So, his lifelong erudition, his learnedness realizations is product of his life, other lifetimes thing. So, in the very place when he was born, he could read and write Sanskrit. That is, you know, sort of easy to understand. For him, it’s very easy. For us, it’s a myth. So, and then, but he assumed this kind of human culture. Tried to learn what the human side has to do to teach us. So, in other words, whatever he learned is basically a kind of act to study. So, he learned from a teacher this chapter. From that teacher, such as he learned Pramanavarttika epistemology. From the Shakya Shri Bhadra and his other students. Other three shris; he studied it. And he, he studied basically of all the esoteric teachings from his own primary teacher, his own uncle. Jetsun Drakpa Gyeltsen. So, basically he learned the logic. He learned the grammar. Basically, he knows already. He learned the, what do you call, the medicine. He learned the, what do you call, the 1:19:33.3 (Tibetan: da rigpa so so rigpa) and then the, what do you call? This art basically.

1:19:39.6 So, that, in other words. See. To the Tibetans, there are many things we can consider him as person, who is endowed with such quality. But that may be a consideration for ourselves, probably how much we get out of this. So, consideration are many. From the religious system point of view, he’s one of the foremost teacher after all the dharma coming up, to really come up. And to write the books. To really, to, to look at the dharma in a critical way. In the sense that he taught and he saw that the dharma need actual protection from the critical understanding, not from the devotional blind way of looking at it. So, he’s really the foremost teacher who first came up to show that path. And following the same Buddha’s word. As we say, he followed the same word. 1:20:42.6 (Sakya dowa sechen?) “just as we cut, rub, melt gold to judge whether it’s true. Same way.” That is the, the, his. So, he’s like, he studies and towards the, he wrote a book called, the Dom Sum. Dom Sum means three vinaya rules. Means the overall, it is basically a small topic. It looks like. But that includes the overall subject of the overall Buddhism. That means, he’s questioning and is trying to examine the whole systems. The vinaya rule of the Theravada system, the bodhisattva vows of the Mahayana system, and the samaya vows of the Vajrayana system in a most critical way. He look at it. He wrote the book. He criticized; examine it. He question it and he debated for the question back forth. But no one basically came up in front. And that; this is the Dom Sum which later became the one of the famous things to be discussed; to be annotated; to be written; to be basically, what do you call it? Criticized. To be examined. Up until now, this and has a big influence on the Tibetan literally and meditational and certain part. And Tibetan Buddhist life.

1:22:17.4 And within the Sakyapa tradition, this became the overall Dom Sum that rose over the centuries. The fifty or seventy other Dom Sums, same topic, the same thing. The same topic to relate with either to commented further or to, or to, what do you call it? To debate. Or to clarify. So, it took a different form. Some took in a form of 1:22:45.0 (??). Some took in the form of kind of criticism. Some took in the form of further studies or inspiration. So, this is the Dom Sum that he basically actually, he go and then sent it out to all Tibet. And later on this Dom Sum became one of the most kind of a text, that you always have to either comment and teach or things like that. So, that became within the Tibetan life story, that became famous and basically he wrote a book called, 1:23:23.9 nagyema. Eight “I’s”. I means me. Just to 1:23:27.7(incite debate with??), the other thinkers, see what they have to say of my writing, you know. And he wrote, you know he say, 1:23:36.1(Tibetan:..), you know “I am the logician. I am the philosopher. I am the writer. I am the poet.” And in other words, just to. Just to in thought provoke other people so that he can; he can talk and further study. But basically no one really came up and still, he’s unquestioned, in a way. A teacher throughout the centuries. The Tibetans didn’t look to ask the critical point. Even though, his writings are really critical on this topic. The. Another style he took as the logician is the, what do you call? When a much later age, when he was very much like sixty years old. Around that. When he spoke, which actually, when he studied under the Sakyasribhadra and other Indian teacher on the pramana; epistemology, he wrote a book, a kind of book called the 1:24:38.2rig ter, means the Treasury of Logic. And that is the, actually the, giving the essence of the teaching, of the writings of the great Indian Buddhist logics, such as Dignaga and Dharmakirti. Until then the. Until the Sapan’s time, the logic system was introduced but it was basically is called, 1:25:05.2 (Tibetan: terma nam ye) The pramana elixir ?). One system. One aspect of the teaching.

1:25:11.5 But from that thing, Sapan took a different turn that until now, the overall system is usually Tibetan, even I studied. Other book called, Pramanavartika, of the same teacher, basically written by. But it took a different shift, because the influence. So, this Rig Ter was written and was the first supposedly non-recorded text to be translated back to Indian scholar world. That was the one thing that. And his fame known out, even in India, through that, now they can read about what Tibetan’s write. So, that provoked the Indian logician. Of course, with a great kind of feat, great thing to do for the Buddhist Indian logician to debate in open space. And so, there came a Indian teacher called, who are the followers the 1:26:11.5 Shaivas, Shaivas means the Shiva. And from South India called the teacher called Harinanda (recording ends)

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