Archive Result

Soundfile 19910210GRAALR2_01

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Ann Arbor

Topic Lam Rim

Transcriber Robin Trimarchi

Date

0:00:00.0 If you look in the leprosy colony, and then you really see it. And then you look, I mean, they’re all human beings within us, and around us. Also, we are also totally subjectable. AIDS now. Another one. And we’re all, we don’t have immune system to all of us, right? We are also subjectable. We can be. So, you cannot really dissociate ourself as a way from the pains. No matter whatever it is. And these are the small, a small pain compare with our major sufferings that people go through. The beings go through, it’s nothing. The human level is the, the real, the realm of pleasure. I mean, it’s not realm of pleasure, but it’s not the realm of suffering. So, but we still have that much. And compare it. The animals now suffer. They suffer tremendously, right? They can’t speak, they can’t express. They don’t have right. Yeah, they don’t have rights. They don’t have right to be in the house. We have to kick them out. The cougars, we don’t want them. The mice, we don’t want them. The skunk. We don’t want them. I don’t know what happened to our skunk, it’s not there anymore. Doesn’t seem to be there anymore. Huh? [student comment: they hibernate in the winter.] Means they go deep down somewhere. [student continues: he’ll be back] Oh, (chuckles) So. So, do we want to be free of those sufferings, pains. That is probably everybody, there’ll be nobody who doesn’t want that. Right? And we call that a pleasure.

0:03:00.9 Happiness without that. As less as possible, we try to call that happiness. So, everybody, like it or not, try to work for happiness. Everybody. Nobody is there not working for happiness. Everybody. So, the material point of view, the material people will say, ‘alright, if you don’t want suffering, you need money.’ If you have money, you can get off your suffering. You can have a house, you can have a car, you can have this, you can have that, you can have that. So, that becomes the answer. And they think it is answer. So, we go for it. And it eliminate to certain extent. As well as it creates. But that solves only a temporary, eh, suffering. Actually, isn’t that right or wrong? What I said. Why does people work for? Why does people need money? Why you have to pay your bills? Why? Because you want to be happy. And then it does become part of baggage. Right? And actually, when you work for, you’re working for your happiness. Even for the material point of view. Nobody, not so many people works for, just for sake of working. But everybody works for, and then when you, when you look for job you say, ‘how much you’re getting? How much you pay? How much would you pay? How much you’re getting. How many hours do we have to work?’ Blah, blah, blah. All of them, is you’re looking for money. Why you’re looking for money? Because people think it can solve the problem. And that’s why money is become everything. And so the, the tantric monks called money [TIBETAN], everybody likes, and it fulfills your wish. (chuckles) They call [TIBETAN]. Funny. So, so, that’s, that’s why. That’s why we think that can solve. That solve to certain extent, you create certain things. Now the spiritual path is looking for the other way. It is alternative to the money solving a problem. That does not mean you don’t have to have money. You give up, forget completely. No. You have to go how the society goes. And in addition to that, you see if you can solve.

0:06:00.0 So, it is not really alternative, maybe I’m wrong saying alternative. It is another way. And looking from the different ways. So, I believe that is purpose whether nobody will deny that. Right? I think that, that has to be. Nobody can deny that. No matter, whoever, maybe, they can’t deny it. That is the problem. If I say you’re for Buddha, ah, the Tibetan Buddhists say, ‘I’ll go, go, let along with that,’ sort of thing and then see what happens. And that won’t do great. But, but, we wanted eliminate suffering. I don’t think anybody denies that. Right? So, the Buddha’s answer for this is different. Instead of saying, he’s saying, he says if you have money, you can do this and this and that. Instead of saying that, Buddha, Buddha says, well this is the result of certain things that we have done. We have been responsible for certain thing is a result. So, if you, want eliminate that, you can’t eliminate on the result point. It be like only treating a symptom. Why don’t you look into the cause and try to cut the cause. And then it doesn’t become anymore. It’s like, eh, it’s like water dam or something. If you have water dam of suffering here, if you want eliminate that, instead of picking the water out of the dam, why don’t you stop that, uh, that river is coming into that dam. You know, like a river valley project or something. Why don’t you stop those rivers coming into that, and it will automatically go. And that’s what the Buddha’s saying. Buddha’s saying the answer, I mean, he says, ‘I looked and did not find answer in those way what we are doing it, but I found answer by cutting the cause.’ And that was real Buddha’s message. It just how the Four Noble Truths works. So similarly, if we want to stop the suffering, let us stop to the cause from the cause level rather than try to stop result level. Did you get me? Huh? Okay.

0:09:05.3 So, that was a, that’s what is. And then they said, ‘what kind of cause we work.’ And Buddha says, ‘let’s look from the [?], sort of, deep root cause rather than the temporary cause. And that’s the thing. And then here we are introducing, that’s becomes introduction of our aim. Yeah. I may become a, a little radical for lamrim tradition because lamrim tradition has to say, say Buddhahood is the, your end. And uh, then, then they go on different level. But let us work the other way around. Instead of saying it’s possible Buddhahood, then otherwise this, otherwise that. So, let us look otherwise up, an up way. Removing the suffering and cause of suffering from ourself completely. Eradication of suffering. Which is acceptable to anybody in this world today. And that’s the language which you speak. If we say to become a buddha, that language we don’t speak. You know what I mean? So, that is become a, that is become an aim. And then you, then you channel, what does lamrim do? They channel, you channel the energies to be able to work towards that goal. Otherwise, you do this, you do this, you do that, you do that. And you be nowhere. So, try to, what does lamrim really do? Channel all your efforts, solidly put them together to achieve certain goal. That’s what really it is. Right? So, let us, uh, at least our goal is to eradicate sufferings. And cause of suffer. To eradicate sufferings by eradicating the cause of suffering. Right? So. Then the question comes, does this practice, whatever we’re going to learn or do it, have the capability of doing that?

0:12:04.7 The next question, will this practice be, is it capable? The answer for this is, yeah, it is capable because through this practice all the buddhas have achieved their result. And all the bodhisattvas, what we call it, achieve their result. The arhats have achieved their result. So, by looking at those things, these people who have achieved, so, if I do the same thing, I can also achieve it. A lot of things we act, right? Normally, in life somebody did something, we just follow it. So, we call them, we know it works. How do you know it works? It works for this and this person. So, did, and this person did it. It worked. Right? So, that means, that, for that we call that works. [student question: inaudible] I do know that. [student continues: but I say this in all seriousness because to, um, you can see if the path works, I mean a lot of people would say, what group do you have, you point to (inaudible).] In other words, what we talked this morning [side comment]. I mean you’re right. There’s not so many people you can say it’s proof here. Besides that, I don’t, uh, I don’t really know whether you’re spiritually, spiritual developments, can you really prove like some scientific thing. Not even sure that, you know. Right? [student continues: I didn’t mean to be facetious, but I think the point would be that people in sangha are happy, but that would be proof (inaudible)]. Well, I don’t think it is the sanghas are suffering-free sangha.

0:15:02.2 (laughter) I don’t think so. I don’t think so. We don’t have immune system. This membership does not immune you out of, immunize. [students play with the word ‘immune.’ Side comments] Yeah. But, but you have to also have to think, uh, it is group of people, uh, huh? I’m going to say something funny, but never mind. It’s group of people, huh? [student comments] Okay. A group of people who do have all kinds of problems, get together, it is that’s what, that it is, sanghas normally. (chuckles) A group of people who are also very intelligent, and uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m not, uh, I mean I’m not joking, that’s true, what uh, uh, it is. Who are very intelligent, uh, who will be willing to, sort of, see. I mean, who are very intelligent, see beyond money. There is, uh, there is ways and means of solving, solving a problem better than that. And who’s also see the money doesn’t solve all the problems. And there’s other ways and means. And group, this is the sangha. So, number one, one, uh, I did think the sangha will be very much aware of pain and problem. Very much. Awareness is there. Is not the ignore the superficially want over, it doesn’t. They’re really very much aware of it. Just by aware, by awareness itself it will also have a problem of its own plus opportunity of solving it together. And uh, so, what we been saying this morning is looking back to the people, looking back to the people and looking back, and that’s why people finding they are very….

0:18:05.0 … somehow, number of people have find, been helped. And uh, and number of people looks like much more grounded than ever before. Really. I mean, at least decide to say the right thing and on the right direction. (chuckles) Yeah, really. Right? Number of people do. And uh, a tremendous improvement within the sangha, you can see it. And I think that itself is a, a sort of sign. I don’t even say it’s proof, it’s a sign it may help. But there’s no guarantee. There’s no, no, no money will be refunded if it doesn’t work. (chuckles) That was a, sort of, joke, I believe. It’s not really insurance. What happened is, during the retreat we talk about that. And when I went to, to Chicago somebody got up and said, uh, that’s for you, and it just made it. So, don’t think it is, it’s not somebody thought, seriously planned it and made it. Okay, don’t misunderstand. I think it’s sort of [student comment inaudible] (chuckles) It’s not insurance to be selling, you know. You thought there’s something sale, on sale? (chuckles) If you want to buy, you can buy. But no money guaranteed return, okay? So, anyway. So, that’s what we do. And that’s, that is the aim. That is the goal. If you have to have some aim. And let’s be, this is beginning lamrim. Let aim be there. Let’s not jump, upset Buddha and all this. Ultimately, Buddhism introduced that, for sure. But when you read this, and uh, they say they’re telling the ultimate goal, but not, but not the immediate goal. So, immediate is eradication of suffering. Maybe that’s offer too much. Eliminating and eradication may be too much. Reducing. See, this is suffering. See? Can you see? It is hot and cold begin to get already cold. So, that’s what it is.

0:21:04.5 So, that is the aim of it. So, can this practice help do this, and that’s what we been talking. What we have seen. And what we don’t see is, we will rely on the reliable words of the enlightened beings because after that we cannot see. Even we see it, when we experience, we cannot communicate to the others because something called death in between. Which separates us, separates from the living and the dead. The sign of which we cannot communicate. We cannot talk to face and face. Otherwise, living and dying is same thing. Right? If you keep on talking the same continuation. So, you don’t. I know, some people have what goes on their head, but that doesn’t mean much. Anyway, so. So, so, what we can judge, what we can see is use our intelligent and make decisions. And when you cannot use, then we rely on the reliable words, hopefully. That’s how Buddhism introduce people. You know, the object of something, if we can see how much we can see, how much we can plan, we rely on ourself. And when there’s a limit gone beyond our limit, then we rely on the words of the buddhas or something like that. And uh, when Buddha also goes, and use your intelligence, blah, blah, blah, and when you talk about karma, when you talk about something beyond human comprehension, then they say Buddha goes with extent to say, all the moons and sun and stars can fall on the ground. Or the ground can dry empty, and all the wet ground can become dry, or dry again, be filled up water. However, the buddhas will not lie, blah, blah, blah. And uh, this is, they make to that point of going to the statement because just to, at least to get some kind of, uh, ah, don’t want sell it ‘faith,’ but I don’t want, do want sell it some sort of at least the, um, benefit of doubt. So, that’s what they go to that point. To that point.

0:24:00.6 So, I even raised the question, and, various place, do you really think there is in a future life? And all this and that. And did ask some question Allen Ginsberg, and he said, ‘I don’t know, I don’t buy. I don’t know. I don’t think I’ll buy that. However, if I’m doing my working very hard because, in case if that’s really true and it’s there, it’s not going to hurt, and I better be prepared. I’m not going to get the suffering and regret at that time. So, if that’s the truth.’ So, that’s, that is a straightforward answer he’s given, you know. He said, if that’s true, I rather be prepared than that of cut sorry figure at that time. After all this I have opportunity. That’s what he said. I don’t want cut sordid figure. Oh, that’s straightforward answer. And lot of people, lot of us, we probably say, ‘oh, yes, there is.’ Are you sure there is? ‘Yes, there is.’ How do you know? ‘Well, the books said so. The Buddha says so. Rimpoche said so.’ Blah, blah, blah. Which is worse than what Allen says. What Allen says is straightforward answer. True, right? So, if there is, why not prepare? Why not prepare. But the, the signs are ninety-nine percent is more clear that there is. Much more. Because there’s a lot of indication. And we’re intelligent enough to observe those. There’s tremendous amount of sign that there is future life. Really. I’m not saying because the ghost comes back and talk to you. No, no, no. Lot of indications. Lot of different where that, I mean, at least, when you look at this people here, why does all this, everybody has same face, I mean, face and all this. But everybody has different. There’s different instant, different thing. Everybody has different character. Why all this? I mean, if self is the answer, even you have a tween, tween, twin, ah, looks the same, walks same, but have different character. One good, one bad. Or both good, or all sorts of funny things. They have different character. Where that come from?

0:27:01.8 Each one of them, I mean really, if you trace back, if you keep on tracing back there’s endless trace. I mean you can endless trace. The indication of those endless trace are the different behaviors the people have. Nobody taught them. Even you taught them by same parents, same way, same time, same school, same teacher, same movie they see, same restaurant they go, same day but they have different ways of approach. Different behavior. Where does that come from? It is the previous, uh, thing. I mean, we accept the elderly people, when you become elder you behave different because at the childhood you had different experience. We accept that, don’t we? More or less, don’t we. We do accept that. And why the child behave different? You have to accept beyond that. Anyway. So, I’m not going to go in there. That’s not our, uh, in a way it is our business, but on the way it's not our direct business today. (chuckles) So, either way, it is. It is. So, when you can’t find the answer, then, then this we made different or something. You find some sort of artificial answer in between and try to cut it out. Right? Did you know, do you know what I’m saying? Yeah. Some artificial answer they give you. So, God made it different way. Uh, or different morals. Uh, (chuckles) [student #1 comments: there are a lot of people that question whether that particular argument really supports the developing understanding of reincarnation. I mean, I think that relativity is really about the only thing, in terms of the things you’re talking about …

0:30:03.2 … because there are a lot of people that would say that the conception, embryo, and pre-verbal experiences of the child, you know, have impact by which they have necessarily no idea, and then they can trace back and find, oh yeah, you know. I mean, so, whether or not that proves, whether or not you can separate two children] I don’t think it is proof. [student continues: no, but I think that the point, that point is a little bit shaky I guess is what I’m saying in terms of really trying to develop faith in past and future lives. It doesn’t hold up very, very long wall. And I think that when’s there’s so much hesitation and confusion about that subject already, it’s a little more helpful to work with things that don’t collapse as quickly as that, I guess is what I’m, what I’m feeling because there is a lot that could be argued and is argued, and this is reasonable. You know, concerning the makeup of an individual that can be in many, many ways traced back to, you know, even the uniqueness of twins, the parent can’t control the friends or the people that they contact, the foods that they, you know, there’s a lot of things that are independent that they experience as infants, that they experience, and all kinds of things that uh. I don’t think it’s building a good argument for reincarnation, I guess is what I’m saying] Yeah, maybe. It may not be, that’s true. But even the imprints may be behaving differently, too. [student continues: right. But again … (student talking over each other) … but the conception and embryo experiences, you know, if you look at …] Are twins different astrology …? [student #2 comment: … a developmental neurobiologist would point to, it's simply chance. Science is based a lot on statistics. And even two twins, the chances that the brain will, that all the neurons will branch out exactly the same, exactly the same pattern, which is very small. So, there’d be very subtle differences between twins, which science would point to. It’s strange. The reason why I asked you that is because I believe in reincarnation. I do believe in all that. But I don’t know why. I’m trained as a scientist, so, it becomes problematic for me because I believe it.] If a scientist become reincarnated, it may be problem. (laughter) [student #1 continues: I think that the, like I said, that the relativity, the (inaudible) the interrelationship (inaudible) and things which are (inaudible) are really the areas that can raise the strongest questions and provide the most stable ground. And not, the direction your going has openings for tremendous debate, and it’s really inconclusive.

0:33:01.6 And there’s reasons, there’s good reasons why it’s inconclusive as (inaudible). There’s lots of other reasons, too. (inaudible)] Well, it is an important subject. But I do not know how much, uh, we can really comprehend, um, beyond that. Unless we have somebody who died and come back and tell us, hey there is. But which is, which if course, even they do that, if I was raise tremendous question, and saying this is our imagination, blah, blah, blah. All this sort of thing are there. Uh, yeah, go ahead. [student comment: … (inaudible) that we can’t even remember our birth. Everybody assumes they were born and that they can know their parents. But reincarnation is, uh, I mean, there are a lot of, a lot of very good arguments per reincarnation. I’m not sure of that’s the direction we want to go today.] True. But I think we should go limited direction. I don’t really think within here, uh, nobody will deny. Um, hundred percent. You know, that’s total bullshit. I don’t think there’ll be anybody who have. And if you have that, it is a problem. I think you have to work first for that. I mean, even dharma can work without working for future life. It can definitely work, for sure. It has its own scope, and it has its own thing. However, um, however, I think that is, that is the question has to be sorted out. Ah, you know why? Because if there is, you know, I mean, this is funny way, my way, may way of thinking. If we know if there is no future life or anything, why should we have to worry about it? Why don’t we do everything what we would like to do? You know what I mean? Why we have to restrict ourself for doing something. Doing certain things. Certain things. [student #1 comment: Yeah, but there’s the whole eternalist viewpoint, which is in neither of those. And that also is a very strong viewpoint in this country.] What do you mean eternalist? [student #1 continues: that you have one life, but then you go on to an eternal heaven or hell. And so, I mean, there’s a lot of dimensions to the question, really.] Well, if you go, if you go in it, what you call that? Eternal heaven or hell, I mean, you know with that body you don’t go, you change the body. So, that is that. That is the future life.

0:36:02.1 I mean, even by accepting eternal, eternal, [student #1 continues: Right. But that sense you sort of believe that you came out of nothing. You didn’t come from a previous life.] And that’s alright, you can come out of, yeah. I know, you can come out nothing. What I’m try to say is, if you don’t have to worry about the future, you can do anything what you want to. You can marry to your sister, if you like it. And why not? And uh, maybe the law may stop, but the law is law. Uh, why not, you know. [student #2 comment: Well, I think there are immediate results to certain things that you do that cause your immediate suffering if you just do anything you want. For example …] They put you in jail, that’s why. [student #2 continues: … eat three hot fudge sundaes at one sitting, you’re gonna get a stomach, right?] That’s true but, but eh, beyond that. [student #2 continues: Well, then it goes on (?) from there]. I’m mean, sort of things, yeah. [student #1 continues: There are natural barriers that keep you from… Student #2 interrupts: If in the heat anger of you kill your husband or your brother or your child or your loved one, you’ll regret it afterwards, after you’re angry. You will miss them, and then you did it. (Student #1 interjects: Whether or not there’s a hell, right.) And it’s too late. And if the police catch you, that’s even worse. But even if we lived in a totally anarchist society, we did that, we’d feel that regret, most of us, or we’d be totally insane. Student #3 comment: Most people don’t have any sense of the future or very much of the past. The past, our history, our biography becomes whatever you happen to remember, which usually is very limited. And it seems to me, that the main argument that I’ve seen is that if you don’t, if you don’t believe in reincarnation, there is no, if you really look at the argument, there’s no belief then in karma. You cannot believe in karma without believing in reincarnation. And from a strictly scientific, materialist point of view, even they believe in a form of reincarnation in the sense that, even if you were to go to heaven for eternity, how could you be in this heaven and not have to communicate to your sons and daughters and your friends who are still suffering on this earth, or their children. So, there’s always going to be this connection once you’ve ever loved anyone, or scarred anyone, or done anything that had any impression of virtue or non-virtue on this planet, you would have some type of connection by sympathy or antipathy to this. Unless you were able to completely cut off all love or compassion.] You, you, you’ll be, you’ll be, you’ll be cut off by death. [student #3 continues: No, but you would have, you’d still have something that you put yourself into. We, um, human beings learn to live in each other, and human beings both carry other people inside of them, and they also project themselves into other people, right? Whether it's your guru or your lover. Student #1 interject: (inaudible) … dissolve back into the nothing, then that part of us …

0:39:01.2 … Student #3 interrupts: But even the worst person loves somebody and has the, even the worst person has a friend and buddy that they shared with, right. They care what happens …] Not after death [student #3 continues: … no, but even if they die, they have some part of themselves they projected into, that they’ve given themselves over to that goes on, right? I mean, your land and your money and all your things, that’s why people have wills.] Well, it has nothing to do with you then. You’re gone. [student #3 continues: Um, I think that there’s a bigger, I think that most people have a sense that there’s something more. Even the materialist who says they don’t believe in anything afterwards has this whole five-hundred year program. I know multi-millionaires, five hundred years down the road he’s thinking about his son’s sons, children’s children, who’s gonna own the land, who’s gonna own all this stuff.] That’s true. [student #3 continues: and they’re, even though they’re gone, they’re not gone. Their works and their actions are still living here.] But, but that actions, their actions and their works are not themselves. We argue that way. For argument’s sake. But you can do all this (chuckles) What did you say? [student comment: maybe they are and maybe they aren’t. Student #3 continues: one argument I have which we could continue debating. The other argument is that, from what I understand from all the thinkers that I’ve read, and I believe it’s true from my thinking it out, is that you can’t, that if you don’t believe in reincarnation, then you don’t believe in karma, that means that you don’t think there is justice.] Well, I, I, I was, I was saying that. I didn’t say the exact word as you say, that’s why I’m saying, well, if there’s no reincarnation, then why worry about it. Why don’t marry your own sister? And things like that. What I’m saying that, then (name) comes out, if you eat three sundae or something, you get, eh, you get, eh, stomach ache. But that’s not bad. You get a diabetics the worst. (chuckes) Anyway. [student comment: That’s a small example of what kind of results will happen …] Well, that is, that is a small, that is small example of how karma really works. And that is another way, it is positive example of how karma really works. Anyway. So, let’s not go. This is, I think, beyond our scope. Anyway. But it’s important. These arguments, if you, did you read that “Cutting Through Appearances.” Uh, do read that. And uh, I’m sure there’s a, one of them says, Jeffrey Hopkins and Geshe Sopa. And uh, I’m sure if it’s, they’ve done well, and if it’s done well, they probably have this viewpoints. This viewpoints, and this viewpoints will tell you exactly, if you accept up to that, and then there’s a long argument.

0:42:00.0 These are ancient arguments. May not really, uh, sometimes they may give me, find lot of ways and means in between, ah, like the, like the, like the, like ah, the continuation type of thing. But there’s definitely valid answer. I don’t think there is, there is true, uh, hundred percent say it’s not. I don’t think it can be. If scientists, if scientifically really prove there is no future life, I don’t like any sensible, uh, spiritual person will hesitate to accept that. I really don’t think so. Unless you are stupid, hard-headed, uh, stubbornness. Which means no [?]. If the scientifically prove there is no future life, and that’s definitely. [student comment: Rinpoche, we have that very thing going on with fundamentalists in the United States who dispute and refuse to allow evolution to be taught in schools, even though a hundred years ago evolution was established without question scientifically, yet still, most of, I mean, such a large segment in the U.S. won’t accept that evolution exists. And I’m sure in the world many, I mean, millions upon billions of people will not accept evolution, whether it’s scientifically proven or not.] Well, as far as I’m concerned, I give you in writing today. (chuckles) I will accept if the scientifically proved there is no future life, I’ll do, I’ll know, I will not hesitate a minute to accept. I really do. And uh, I think that, I think His Holiness also said somewhere, if I’m not making mistake, he said that, ‘I won’t hesitate to accept.’ That’s true fact. Because scientifically proof is true. [student comment: inaudible] As long as you cannot, cannot prove or disprove it, we have room to play with it. (chuckles) [student comment: But the scientific thing, that (name) brought up earlier which we didn’t get much into besides her mentioning it, is the theory of relativity. And if that’s true, the theory of relativity, that everything you do influences everything else, then each one of us, if one would just think a little bit, then one would see their, both their individual and their social responsibility, and their role as an artist or as human being that has a gift or something that can benefit themselves and others, which are inseparable actually, it seems that, but that, I mean …] I’m begin to, I’m, I’m glad you said that. It is benefit others and themself is inseparable. I’m glad you said that.

0:45:01.8 [student comment: I think that reincarnation, karma (?) to (re)transform the earth overnight almost] What did you say? [student continues: If reincarnation karma were to be understood and accepted, that literally within a couple months then whole world would transform quicker than the six …] (chuckles) Well, if, it’s true, but. It’s true, is true. It is true but, eh, it cannot be done, either. [student continues: But only the Tibetans are the first ones that I’ve ever encountered that really went into this thing about, uh, I mean, I remember the shock I had when I first encountered Tibetan Buddhists and lamas, the shock when I first met Rinpoches and Tibetan who would be so concerned over the future lifetime, when everyone in esoteric circles I was in only talked about the last lifetime, or previous ones. And it took me awhile to realize that they were deadly serious. That they really were …] I mean, it is serious what we are talking about it. (chuckles) It is really serious. That, that is serious business. It’s not a joke. I mean really. [student continues: (inaudible)] This is the karmic-shaping time for our future. And that’s for sure. [student continues: It makes one’s pathological pettiness about their own parents completely disappear. I mean, you start realizing that you are responsible. And you thought your parents gave you problems but, and you’re the one that’s, by the way you’re living now, is picking, you’re already in the process of picking your next, you know, incarnation] On the other hand, on the other hand, it’s not that there’s no relation with the parents is also not true. They have some relations, too. It is, it is, eh, it is all multiple, you know, it is dependent rise. So, everything contributes for everything. Definitely. That is the relativity-ness. That’s the relative truth. And every single thing has contributed to every single thing. So, the child who had abuses contributes to the behavior of later age, and all this are definitely contributes. And the parents’ behavior contributes to the children’s behavior. And especially if the children picks anybody, young one, pick up role model, and they will definitely contribute to the behavior of that person because you like to be like that. You wanted to be in that way. And with or without realizing, you do all this. These are definitely contributed factor because it is relative truth. Because of relative truth, that is definitely, everything contributes on everything. But the major contribution is our own karma.

0:48:00.3 And the minor contribution comes for everything, whatever has happening around you. These are the things which create the condition for the future steps. Ah, I don’t remember exactly who, one of the Tibetans, earlier who will give example, giving your own karma, you know, we weave this, you know, this cloths you weave. You know, this woven, wools and carpets and all this, the major thing, the thread goes ‘round. And then the main, the other things goes cross, you know. Then you weave. And then you put that throughout, tack, tack, tack. So, your own karmic is like the major thread that goes inside. The, all other events that have taken place crossed, uh, within your lifetime, or whatever, and that all this are the, the side thread that goes which you pull [audio cuts out]. They named that way after that way. This is called [Tibetan word]. [Tibetan word] means a relation. It has some kind of relations. So that even in all our lifetime, there are own karmas are the [Tibetan word], and the conditions are the [Tibetan word], or [Tibetan word] it becomes. So, that is how it’s really shape. And that’s what it is. Anyway. So, we’re gone a little bit beyond that, anyway. So. So, the result, now the, our, whatever what it is, what we are looking for is eliminating the suffering. How can eliminate suffering? By eliminating the cause. This thing going straight. By eliminating the cause, you can. But by eliminating the side thing going, you may not completely be able to eradicate because this thing will stay stand. And if this thing is not standing there, this side going business cannot function. Even it goes, there’s nothing to stick. Do you see what I’m talking? So, that’s, I believe, how it works. So, when you eliminate, you eliminate that one, not this one. This one is the sidetrack for us. So. So, the lamrim can definitely help. I’m not talking about it, earlier historical points. I’m talking about it, what people can improve today.

0:51:03.0 And what have happened. And that can, and that really can see its benefits. It’s tremendous. People who goes around lot will tell you more. People goes around tell you much more what lamrim can help, and how much it can help, and how much it cannot help. They can definitely tell you. We have, we have examples within our sangha. I’m not going name it today, because it’s not that nice. (chuckles) But, yeah, but I mean it’s, it is a good improvement, though you can name it. But eh, but eh, we can see. You know. I don’t have to really say. So, it does, yeah. [side comment to student. Student question: On the weaving, okay, I’m still trying to get this on the conditions and the cause. Dharmakirti said that if we don’t create the conditions, then the karma can’t arise. So, if I don’t want that fabric woven, I also don’t create the conditions. So, then the karma doesn’t have the opportunity to become a result.] You are, you are absolutely right. If you don’t have the condition, you cannot produce the fabric. But the cause will still remain there. [student continues: So, I’m also looking to eradicate the cause as not having the karma arise, but can’t I help contribute towards that change by watching the conditions, and not permitting to the conditions to become effective?] How much can you watch? [student continues: I know. It’s like cutting the branches instead of the root.] You can’t watch that much. [student continues: … we have to spend more time (inaudible] I have to just sit up there and watching all the time. Do nothing and keep on watching. Even there you go to sleep. No, it won’t. [student comments] I mean, that may not be the answer. (chuckles) Good thought, but might not be the, I mean really, it may not work, you know. [student comment: There’s a whole other side, Rinpoche, too, besides the fact of looking for results, that people are bettering themselves or more grounded, or more on the path, or doing more virtuous work. One could also argue that once you really find the dharma for, uh, the results could be the fact that you just want to wake up to the, to their suffering in a better way. One could argue that after finding Buddhism, now I really started to suffer, and that before (laughter)

0:54:06.6 I was suffering before but I was always steering to avoid it, or that I didn’t, I was, I was, my head in, like an ostrich under the sand, and I wouldn’t, a lot of people do a lot to avoid, um, they’re in denial and they’re dysfunctional, and they don’t understand anything that’s going on. So, when they finally get on the path, for them, for a few years, it’s really a question of finally finding the shit in their life, or the unprocessed stuff. As they say, you know, it’s common language these days. (GR chuckles) And um, if Allen can say it, I can say it. (GR laughs). But that’s what it is. It’s all the stuff that’s unprocessed, and the residue, and the, you know, I mean, one really, you know, I remember a friend of mine wrote an article, “Troubles on the Path.” That when you first get on the path, really things get worse. And that all of a sudden, when you turn on the light, now you see the dark corners and the dirt you have to work on. And these, but it’s more real and you get, one really feels like they’re more human, and they’re actually engaged in life. Or that you’re really here now and you’re not just fading away somewhere. I mean, there’s an argument for that. It’s kind of like, more like the Americans that are happy to be at war, you know, there’s this get-tough attitude. There’s a whole side of spiritual practice where one wants to be a spiritual warrior. Anyway] Anyway. Yeah, that’s true, yeah. [student #2 comment: I don’t think things get worse. I think you just see them. Whereas before you didn’t. (Student #1 continues): Right, that’s what I’m saying. That’s right. It seems like they get worse. Because for the first time you see all these things, and then you, it’s like you pull the string and it’s all this other stuff attached to it.] Okay. So, well, let’s us do little bit down now. Um, if you find difficult to follow this, uh, it’s okay. There’s another one, um which we had earlier worked out. And uh, some people find that’s easier, ah, go ahead and use that. Doesn’t matter. So, basically, what I’m going to introduce here, the quality. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I think I, did I told, did I talk about the fourth quality? I like I did. [TIBETAN] That is, they said, uh, well, what did, what did they say?

0:57:00.2 Outline say? [inaudible] But they will, you know the, what happened is, you know, to me it doesn’t matter. You know why? Because I’m thinking in Tibetan, so I’m not thinking in English. So, the, the, somebody else use these words. Somebody else use this word. It landed in me in the same way, what I’m thinking. Prefabricated thoughts that I’m putting in. Yeah, really. And so, the interpret, the translators will use this language, that language, and if you are looking through that language, it sound different here, sound different there. Slightly, but it’s almost close to each other because that’s what’s happening. So, anyway, the, the fourth one quality is [TIBETAN]. The great non-virtuous will automatically stop, or something like that. The, the, that is great non-virtuous is, eh, is, eh, this is another, another similar to the non-contradictory business type. Another thing. Well, yeah, we are good, and you are bad, and uh, you do that sort of thing lot. So, if you understand lamrim properly, and if you get it, then all the teachings of the Buddha will become one. And it is, it has one purpose, to help all beings. To, to, to eradicate sufferings of all beings. And so, you can’t say this is good and this is bad, and that’s good and this is bad. So, otherwise, we are in very much of habit of saying, uh, ours is good, yours is bad. And this and that. And particularly among the very little, uh, Tibetan Buddhist practitioners. And within you find lot of a, um, ‘guru-ism’(?). Particularly among the Western people, not so much with the Tibetans. Fortunately, or unfortunately, not so much with the Tibetans. There’s tremendous amount with the Western people. And these Western people, they did not make up. They’re also instigated by few Tibetans, for sure, I’m not deny that. However, the, the, the, the, the, the, the majority, uh, in the Western dharma society, dharma groups, if you look, everybody will tell you, ‘Ours is best.’ Yeah. The, the, the, if you go to the, if you go to the, to the KTC here, and they will say they’re the best.

1:00:01.6 The Kagyupa system is the best, the system, and blah, blah, blah, and it is the Marpa, the Mila, then Naropa, Tilopa, blah, blah, blah. They will tell you that. If you go to the Nyingma tradition, they say, the way the earliers, and Padmasambhava, and this is the best, and blah, blah, blah. And if you go to the Gelugpa centers, well, we’ll indirectly telling you that Tsonghkapa’s great. (chuckles) That I’m telling you all indirectly. I mean, that’s not to emphasize, uh, the others are not right. But we telling you because look at that, and that’s what is happening. And um, and uh, so, but eh, if you, that’s alright. That is, uh, you’re the best, great, fine. But the, but you can’t say that yours is wrong. You’re the best. That’s fine. You be the, let you be the best. But you can’t say the others wrong. And if you say that, it is, this is what they’re talking about. The great non-virtuous. And that’s what they’re talking about it. It is the, if the person knows the value that they’re taught in the lamrim to the dharma value, then they cannot say that was wrong. There are lot of people who say that is wrong, they say, you know. This, if you want to do the right thing, you have to do here with this way. And if you do that way, that was the wrong way. And people tell you that lot. But eh, that is what, what this referring to, the great non-virtuous. Directly they’re talking about that. Indirectly, what we are talking about, our ignorance. The ignorance, um, lot of people, I might, I might well as say here. Lot of ourselves will think, ah, the teachings on wisdom will come. When the teachings on wisdom will come, there is some kind of illumination which will clear the darkness, boom, like that. And the people look for that. It’s not. Teachings for the, teachings for the wisdom is, begin when you open mouth. It is the begin at that time. When you’re introducing the suffering, the teachings on wisdoms begin. And there is no such thing which illuminates like that. (snaps his fingers) No. And lot of people do think it is there. And that is another misunderstanding. So, the teachings, the lamrim particularly, ah, begin to cut down the ignorance tremendously.

1:03:06.2 And when it started cutting down the ignorance, opposite of the ignorance will be the wisdom. I mean, at least, here you know the karmic system, how karmic functions. What does karma mean, how it works. How does the, all of them will be, sort of, cleared, cleared, that is the wisdom. And that’s not only the wisdom, there more, but this is part of wisdom. When the whole picture comes up together, at the end you’ll see it clearly. Until then, I don’t, it’s all built up gradually. And there’s no such thing, really, like this, illuminates. So, so, the fourth quality of cutting the fault behaviors, which is non-virtuous karma, will gradually begin. I mean, the moment we sit down and started talking, it is started functioning, cutting down the faults. By cutting the faults, the action of the faults cut down. By cutting the action of the faults, the, the, you cut down the bad karma. And that is automatically affecting the individual. Automatically effect on the individual. And uh, particularly, the effect of the individual, whether it’s been effect or not been effect, you have to see it a longer period, and then try to see. Try to see. Try to read back, look back. And look back. And uh, then you see the difference. And you don’t see it now if you try to look back. What you are you looking yesterday? What I’m thinking today? If you try to see [?], you try to see the same reflection, you’ll see nothing. And then you get disappointed. Then you get worry about it. And then you call me and cry on telephone. People do that a lot. Anyway. So, uh, so, that won’t work. So, but if you see, go long period, long period, and then you started watching, you’ll see the effect. And that is the how, uh, I will interpret the fourth quality. And also tells you, it’s fine, you can be the best system. But don’t say the other systems wrong. If you say that, it is the, uh, no matter whether you’re teaching, whether you’re Kagyu, you are teaching Tibetan Buddhism. You’re doing Tibetan Buddhism. If you’re Gelugpa, you’re doing Tibetan Buddhism. If you’re doing Nyingma, you’re doing Tibetan Buddhism. And you’re doing Buddhism. And, if you’re doing, I mean, you don’t teach somebody else’s “ism,” right?

1:06:02.3 That’s, that’s, that’s, really true is, you taught, you’re teaching the dharma what the Buddha taught. And that’s what it is. And this, I think [?], too. So, that is another quality. So, the qualities, if you look in that, um, thing, oh, you have it. The breakdowns. Yes. What do we have there. [student #1 responds: Qualities and benefits of the lamrim tradition of meditation and how to practice.] How to practice. What did you say? [student responds: How to practice] No, no, no. Before that. [student responds: Qualities and benefits of the lamrim tradition of meditation] Okay. I think that will cover that much. [student continues: You don’t have this because we’re still working on it, so, sorry.] You don’t have it because, eh, still, eh, I’m not a hundred percent happy with this. But eh, (name) worked out that system how, we tried to put all the lamrim studies together. Chicago, here, New York, we would go together, work unified, little bit of, uh, what you call this? Curriculum. Yeah. So that, huh? So that readings and the book what you read, and what page to what page, or the chapters, rather, and all this, sort of, try to put them together so that, that’s what we’re trying to do. But it’s not a hundred percent through, yet. So, so, we may have more contributions on there, little bit more corrections and things like that. So, that’s why we not doing it today. So, the qualities and teachings is, what is the other one? [student responds: How to practice. And next comes, next time is Guru Devotion] What does the ‘How to practice,’ what does that mean by that? What do you thinking? [student responds: Guru Devotion and Precious Human Life is session 2, according to (name) outline. This one is Meditations, Contemplating the qualities and benefits of the lamrim in order to develop good motivation for study and practice. (Student #2 comments): Well, that’s probably where she does ‘how to listen, how to teach more in detail,’ (inaudible)] So, anyway. So, let us cover this qualities, this are four qualities which been already covered. Now we’ll change the, the second is how to listen.

1:09:00.0 Right? [pages turning] This is, we have a tremendous amount of subject to have to cover with this. [pages turning] How to teach and listen, and which maybe she said how to practice. That’s probably, I think in the lamrim, shortest lamrim, probably don’t have the teaching business, but it goes on the practice business. That’s why. So, anyway. Now let’s try to cover that up. The ‘how to practice.’ Okay. How to practice, let’s go to that. How to practice. I will divide that into three. [student #2 comments: Maybe she meant that during sessions, in between sessions …] That’s right. No, no, no. I think she has to cover the six, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the preliminaries. So, that’s why, ‘how to practice.’ Um, so. [student comment: It wouldn’t be under Guru Devotion?] No, no, no, no, no. No, no. Um, the, the, the beginning session, and uh, session, and end of session will probably go below Guru Devotion. So, here, how to practice. Uh, is that, is that we say, ‘how to practice?’ [student #1 responds: She says ‘how to practice,’ but when she talked to me, she mentioned the vase, the upside down vase, the cracked vase (GR: That’s right, that’s right. Upside down vase.) specifically. So, didn’t, I don’t think she did the preliminaries.] That’s okay. You have to do the preliminary. So, we, we, we covered here. Okay. She, she told you the vase. Okay, so we tell the vase then. Okay. Vase, when you telling your vase means how to listen. That’s what it is. Okay, now, let me put this way. How to practice. Before you practice, what you practice you need to know. Alright? If you don’t know what you have to practice, you can’t practice. That’s true. Isn’t that true? It is true, I’m don’t, don’t look at me saying ‘it may not be.’ So, don’t give me that, okay. It is true. (laughter) So, you have to know what you practice, okay. So, in order to know the practice, you have to either, you have to learn it, either through reading or listening. Okay. So, sort of, through listening or reading, as matter of fact it is absolutely necessary to have both.

1:12:00.3 You have to have reading because you can, by listening you can have very limited information pulled in because of our timings. And there times we have to waste, too. So, so, the readings become absolutely necessary. Listening is also absolutely necessary because if you don’t listen, ah, then the, then the book cannot be spiritual guide. No way. Number of reasons why. But most important reason is that carries, the spiritual teachings traditions carry a tremendous backbones are the lineage. Unbroken continuation of the lineage practice is the backbone. It’s backbone. And which cannot be provided by reading. Even by the, even by videotapes, or audio/visual, everything, cannot provide that. For the teaching, listening is absolutely necessary. And in both cases, now you say the vase, okay, in both cases whether you’re reading or listening, three things has to be clear. Three things. The number one, the most important is also you have to listen it. You really have to pay attention because you’re not going to learn it. It’s like this upside-down glass, you cannot pour water in because it’s upside-down. That simple as that. And uh, well, another is not a big deal for the West today, it’s, was a big deal for the Tibetans before, is you cannot forget. Because of there’s a hole in the glass, no matter how much water you pour, that much water will go down. So, nothing can be filled up. So, that is the second problem. That is not a big deal, because in the West now you can leave all your information in the books, they’re very good taking notes. Tibetans are not good taking notes. They’re, they’re very good notes, so, you can leave it in book. Or you can put in tape recorder and leave it here, so. So, so, it’s not a big deal. So, there’s something to take. [student comment: I don’t understand the analogy. Is the analogy being made that the hole in the glass represents, ah, loss through (inaudible)? Okay, thanks, like water] Yeah, I do not know whether can be filled up by the books and tapes. I mean, I just say, I don’t know whether you can really fill it up or not.

1:15:03.8 Ah, most likely not. Most likely not. You know why? What really you need it is at the time when you need it. At the time when you need it, the books won’t be there. The tape recorders will not be there. It is only you and your brain be there. So, probably, so, probably the books and tapes will not fill it. I’m just sort of, just sort of, you know, running through and just, sort of, making it joke and going. So, that’s what I’m doing. So, now the most important thing is, if there is piece of shit in the glass, you cannot use it. That’s that. No matter how much nectar you poured in, you cannot use it. Okay. That is, is if you have the wrong motivation, if you have wrong motivation it won’t work. The, our purpose cannot be fulfilled. Your purpose. It becomes useless. Even you don’t have wrong motivation, if you’re angry, uh, that is a problem because the anger will affect. If you’re frustrated, if you’re not angry, if you’re frustrated with anything, and that won’t help. That is again become affected. Or, or you’re being there is just for totally another reason. For attraction or something or another. Another. Then it is again, a piece of shit in it. Yeah. So, all of them will not serve purpose. So, the first thing, when we say, ‘please generate pure motivation,’ means you have to watch that. Just simply saying, ‘for the benefit of all beings,’ will not be sufficient at all. It is the right thing to do, but not sufficient. You have to see your mind’s clear. If you came with a pre-(conceived) idea of the answers that you have, and you try to be here, and uh, then that is another problem.

1:18:02.0 Because then what will happen is, if that suits with your mind, you acknowledge. You say, ‘that’s right.’ And if it doesn’t suit with your mind, you say, ‘that’s not right.’ So, because you have a pre-(conceived) ideas, so, pre-(conceived) idea doesn’t work with the thing. Because you have to remember the whole purpose of the lamrim is to correct our mind, to smoothing our mind, and to develop ourself. So, for that, doesn’t work. For listening, it doesn’t work. For saying practice, it doesn’t work. For meditation, it doesn’t work. So, don’t have a pre-(conceived) idea. Don’t have frustrated idea. Uh, don’t have, uh, attraction or any sort of, in other words, the hatred, the jealous, the attachment, and ignorance, all have to, no, sorry. Hatred, jealous and attachment has to go. If that is gone, the ignorance will be affected. And if that’s not gone, no matter, the ignorance will be protected. So, with that idea you have to listen. Then the system, I might well as mention little bit because it is now maybe a point to say. And uh, also, there are system. You have to respect to the teaching. You have to respect to the person who teach. Why? The person who teaches at least carrying the message of the buddhas and bodhisattvas. So, they’re representing. And, if you don’t have respect to that person, it becomes insult to the buddhas and bodhisattvas. They give you the example in traditional old Tibetan. If there two villages, and if the one village is sending a representative of the village to the other village, and if they did not receive the representative with well respect, and if they started kicking, or if they, sort of, sort of, uh, if they did not receive representative in according to what they expect or whatever, according with respect, then it becomes insult to the other village. Right? I mean the old primitive society you function that way. Even today, you function, if you send a representative to Iraq, and if they don’t respect, we all get hurt. Right?

1:21:00.7 You, they say, ‘look at them,’ you know, this sort of thing you do. So, that is because, not because you loved James Baker, but, but because you’re Americans, so, reason why disrespectful for America, for, nobody’s going to be happy. Right? So, it’s the same manner. It is, they give you that example, so, that’s why you need respect. Now the respect is, how? How. There system. So, [TIBETAN] So, the system, if somebody’s sitting down and if the teacher is standing, what’s happening? [side comment] So, if the teacher is, uh, if the, if the, if the students are sitting and the teacher should not teach by standing. Which is in the Western schools we do, anyway. So, [TIBETAN] Dharma should not be taught in that manner. And if the student’s sleeping, lying down, and you cannot give teaching by sitting even. So, so, that’s why I said don’t go to bed. Don’t sleep. I don’t mind you stretch your legs, but, but don’t lie down. So, if you put your body like this, and then you cannot supposed to, like this, then you’re not supposed to, to teach dharma on that manner at all. Then the teacher should also lie down. (chuckles) [student question: What’s the purpose of the teacher sitting and the student sitting? And how is it not effective if the teacher stands, is it …] It is some sort of old rule, you know. That’s the, that’s the traditional rule how this becomes disrespectful. That’s what it is. [TIBETAN] And you don’t teach to the person who’s wearing toppy. [students clarify] Huh? Hat. [students talk, laugh] What’s wrong with that? [student chuckle about ‘toppy’] I said, ‘toppy.’ (chuckles) [students talk]

1:24:00.3 [chatter continues for a while. Student #1 question: … is there some sort of symbolism. I mean, there’s obviously a symbolism implied in the dharma not being taught while standing while the students are sitting. (GR: What?) I said, there’s sort of implied symbolism in that, and I was wondering if it was explicit, as well, in it not being proper to teach the dharma standing when you students are sitting.] I did understand, would you answer it. I need you … [student #2 answers: Rinpoche, I have no idea way the Tibetans made that up. (laughter) I have …] It’s not Tibetans didn’t made up. It comes from … [student #2 continues: I have absolutely no idea.] It comes from this Sanskrit tradition. [student #2 continues: I mean, I have no idea why that exists in that tradition] You know why? In that, in that culture, in that culture, uh, in that culture, I think, eh, sitting is the appropriate, and uh, then uh, um, then the, um, what do we do? Our system, if you notice, the old system, if the elders or the respectable people come, you get up, you don’t sit like that. So, the getting up is respect, right. But then this, eh, then this other senior people comes, and some mediocre senior come, the other senior will not get up, but others will get up. Sort of, you know, the standing is respect. And um, um, and sitting is lesser respect to the standing. But then the students cannot stand all the time because there’ll be difficult, so, sort of, commonly they settled on them, on the, on the sitting procedure. But if somebody is sitting and you have to talk dharma by standing, sort of, you know, the standing is the lower order to sitting. Right?

1:27:10.6 And that is the culture. Lower in the sense, yeah, they do that. The lower person said, stand when the other person said. So, that’s why dharma doesn’t work that way. So, that’s why you stand there and respect, and all this. [student comment inaudible] Huh? [student comment inaudible. I was thinking it had to do with getting up and leaving. You know, how sitting implies that you’re staying] Well, no it isn’t. No, it is not that. And then the, then the, then the lying down will be even more disrespectful. So, that’s why you don’t do that. [student comment: I was thinking perhaps it was that the teacher ….] But, but, but if they’re both are walking, standing and walking, you can do dharma teaching. That’s okay. Both are. And there’s so many ways. You don’t go too much detail, then you must go to right side, you must go to the left side, not supposed to go to front side, you’re not supposed to go back side, all that there. If you read this [TIBETAN], what does that say? [students answer inaudible] It’s all of them in there, you know. So, don’t worry about it. Don’t ask where I put them, (name) who runs around, boop, boop, boop, and then I catch the wrong place. [student comments, chatter. Student comment: You know, standing has a great tradition in the Druids, as well as the Western mysteries both (?) and Masonry, and the standing was the standing stones. It was the erect posture versus the, this spin of the, not only the earth but the animals had the horizontal. So, if you laid down, you were returning to the animal realm. And that by standing, the erect spine was something that only the humas could have. And that it’s a relationship of standing and sitting. Of not wanting the spine, but the whole body to the center of the fires of the earth and the stars. And you have this relationship of consciousness that, consciousness rises higher and lower. There’s a whole tradition of this. The one that’s standing has the energy, and the one sitting remained down as receiving.] Well, that must be true. But eh, what I’m, what I’m talking you is what I know of it. What they, what they talking I don’t know. Yeah, really. I mean, I’m not saying that that’s not true, you know. That must be, yeah, fine, that’s [?], yeah. So, anyway. Ah, so, that’s the, how to listen.

1:30:01.9 And the most important thing is mental part of it, clean, mental part. And um, as I mentioned to you, I do not know whether I did mention. I think I did mention to you. Kyabje Ling Rinpoche once told me, it was Ling Rinpoche, went to a teaching with [? Rinpoche] uh, Kyabje [?] Rinpoche’s another great teacher I have and was very well-known teacher. And not very high ranking like Kyabje Ling Rinpoche become high ranking because he become Dalai Lama’s teacher and all this. And became Ganden Tripa later, the, the chairman of the Gelugpa and all this sort of thing. Become very high ranking. But eh, but eh, Kyabje [?] Rinpoche’s not. Sort of, you know, [?] Rinpoche always has white hair. So, Kyabje Ling Rinpoche attend one of the [?] Rinpoche’s teaching, and [?] Rinpoche have a habit of saying wrong things all the time. Always. Always he’s, I mean, always. Because, eh, eh, when I first had teaching with Kyabje [?] Rinpoche, I didn’t really realize what Kyabje Rinpoche saying, all sorts of funny things. And afterwards, you know, when the, we will teach, we will tell others before. Kyabje Rinpoche will say such and such and things. For example, there’s one quotation by Sakya Pandita, [TIBETAN]. Says, one without learning who would like to meditate, or who like to do practice, he says, somebody without arm try to climb on the rock. And that’s what Sakya Pandita’s quotation is. So, Kyabje [?] Rinpoche will always say the opposite direction. [TIBETAN] means short rock, try to climb on leg. Or one hand or something. He always say. So, everybody will tell the new, those people coming in, lama, incarnate lama, because they will make joke, laugh, and all sorts of funny things. They do. So, so, we tell them don’t laugh, Kyabje Rinpoche going to say that, don’t laugh. So, we tell them don’t laugh, so, they listen more carefully, and they giggle (makes giggling sounds), you know. They giggle more. So, Ling Rinpoche went and took teachings from Kyabje [?] Rinpoche when Kyabje Ling Rinpoche’s already very famous, and very famous at that time. So, nobody will dare to tell Kyabje Ling Rinpoche that [?] Rinpoche’s going to say that. Maybe he didn't hear. So, Kyabje Ling Rinpoche was sitting next to Kyabje [?] Rinpoche [inaudible] was saying wrong thing, he started giggling little bit. And [?]. And then Kyabje [?] Rinpoche say, ‘well, I, since I’m an old person I say the wrong things. And you correct me if I say the wrong things.’

1:33:03.9 Then he started reading something. Whether he says, it is a [TIBETAN] means negative, not been. So, he will remove the negative word out and [Tibetan word]. And when there’s no negative words, he adds up all the time. (laughs) So, Kyabje Ling Rinpoche keep on started correcting for couple of times. He said, Kyabje [?] Rinpoche told me. Couple of times. And he said, he said, couple of times he acknowledged it and then, sort of, [?]. After some time, he picked the book up, tried to read it, something wrong, said, ‘oh, two of you have come here to find fault for me.’ (laughs) It become my fault. Two of you have come here to find my faults, in that case, you better not stay here. (laughter) So, [?] says, ‘since then, I, since then, I didn’t say anything.’ So. I don’t know why I said that. Uh, so, the idea is, you should not be here to find the faults. That’s what it is. There you go. So, if you have looking for faults and problems, uh, then you don’t have to be at the lamrim to finding faults and problems. Ah, you have enough faults and problems outside. And so, when I say the, the, the, the, the, [?] is totally clean, here, means all of them should not be there. That’s what it is. Now, oh, how to listen. How to teach. How to teach. Might well as covered here, now. How to teach. The teacher should not be preparing for himself, saying that how best way I can teach, so that I can be very impressive. And so, that uh, you know, this sort of motivation. And how can make, how can I make myself very presentable. The best way presentable. If you wanted to make the best way to affect the people, and you want it worked out, fine. But if you wanted make it very impressive and say the right thing, and don’t say the wrong thing, you wanted to make in that sort of thing, teaching, it is wrong. It’s wrong. That is again the piece of shit inside the utensil. So, that’s from the teacher’s point of view. No. It is always, you have to always think that you are only sharing things you know. Okay. You don’t talk things which you don’t know.

1:36:02.7 Uh, that is very important. Not only you know as knowledge, but things that you have practiced yourself. And have little bit of insight and try to share that. On that basis you may add a few scholarly things here and there. But eh, you have to be based on what you know. And rather than, and so that’s why you don’t find a prepared lesson, lessons, like the classes you have prepared lesson, you don’t find that. You shouldn’t do that even. And uh, if it becomes, and then they will, there’s a tendency of taking over from your own personal knowledge and touch and insight taking over by the preparations. So, you know what I mean? You read a couple of books here and there and prepare this very nice things. So, it is look very presentable, nice, wonderful, on the time, complete everything, but effect of the, effect to this, to the individual practitioner is very little. It becomes less effective. It becomes very, not very much effective. So, even Kyabje [?] Rinpoche reads everything wrong. Says the wrong thing. But we understand after some time, he doesn’t mean the, he doesn’t mean the short rock will not climb on the (laughs) hands. So, we know that you know. So, but he’s in habit, in his mouth, told them [TIBETAN], he will always say that. Always tell them [TIBETAN] The very short rock, where you have to put [TIBETAN]. The words, you, there, there’s something you say in English. You read backwards, or, dyslexia. So, Kyabje [?] Rinpoche must have dyslexia, really. Must be.

SESSION ENDS