Archive Result

Soundfile 19930608GR3P

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location 3P

Topic Determination To Be Free (First Principle), Karma, Bardo

Transcriber Bob Marsh

Date March 7, 2021

0:00:00.0

[File opens with Rimpoche speaking in soft voice. Sounds like he is talking to one person, informally, prior to beginning his talk to the group.]

Six hours, um, it is interesting how these two traditions are working together. And, uh, seeing the, particularly, the number of Jewish Rabbis there. They try to see how the Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism and traditional mystical part of Christianity or Judaism, whatever. So, it is quite interesting [unclear sequence] like to mention here. At the same time, I also heard that European newspaper [unclear sequence]

0:01:05.3

[Rimpoche now speaks in full voice to the group]

And, uh, so why we get back to the point where we left. The last Tuesday, if I remember correctly, we talked about the, um, impermanent and not so much solid foundation as we think in the life we have.

(Are you fitting there okay? There’s more room here, more room here, and also there’s lot of empty room in front here, you know. So, Supa, too, if you want to move. Probably you don’t want to move. That’s fine.) [Laughter]

I thought we did that, is that right? Last week? Where did we stop? Second Principle. I can’t believe it. Did we? Did we cover that? Can somebody read the textbook? No, no before that, please read the verse.

[Someone reads to Rimpoche. Rimpoche recites verse briefly in Tibetan.]

0:03:27.1

Okay, probably the what they’re talking about karmic system. Okay, so the karmic system.

[Rimpoche speaks in Tibetan]

0:03:53.8

So the dependent structure of how karma works, and sufferings in the samsara, in general, will also tell you you’re not only the attachment for future lives also not good. So when we are working with the First Principle, that is, to make yourself, to determine to make ourself to be free. In order to make ourself to make free, we should not have attachment from what we’re going to free ourself. We give lot of examples, right? Attachment to do, can do this, this, this, that. Attachment can make people blind. Attachment can make people slave. All this we talk. So, so that’s why, basically, if you want make free, you should not have attachment to the subject from what you wanted to be free. So subject from what you want to be free is the, the continuation of uh, of life, and the problems and difficulties.

0:05:26.2

In order to make ourselves free from that, we should not have attachment to that. And then you divide it into two: attachment of looking things for this life, say, ’til you die. Or attachment of looking things for the next life. So we basically covered why should we should not we have strong attachment to this life, and, partcularly the material things: because they are impermanent. Where it is here just now, it can go away. It is absolutely true. Even those people who think there life has no problem, no financial problem. And totally settled, no problem. Even then, those people, something can go wrong. And all of a suddenly, you found they are left nothing. And not only you have left with nothing, but you owe tremendous. And that’s what happens. And that is totally realistic in our life.

I give you example. When I [unclear word] Tibet, [unclear word or words] left there, overnight. And tomorrow morning, and when you landed at Indian border, you find yourself a totally penniless beggar, in that situation. But uh, that’s what really happened.

Wait ’til they see the [unclear word] going around with the wealth, rich people, have this hostile takeover of their company. And things like that. And you see them every day.

0:07:41.5

So that really tells you there is nothing as solid thing that you can really help to be, what you really sort of put yourself to make slave of that. And then particularly, [the following in parentheses unclear to transcriber] (you know nobody takes someday you are the bottom of that.) Right? When you die you don’t take anything. When you die, you die. I mean you don’t take anything. What does that mean? What does that mean? To me, it is you’re disconnecting. Disconnecting the relationships, disconnecting whatever we are able to have it and use it; we totally detach, disconnect from that. That is the main thing. Whether you accept reincarnation, or you don’t accept reincarnation, but whatever it might be, what happens? We disconnect. And we leave everything and go. Right? The Tibetan lamas, the earlier teachers who would give you the example, when you die it’s like a little feather of a bird taken by a storm. So you go, and there’s no time to look back. Though we always hope to look there, at least. So we leave something behind, hoping to. I talked the other day, I think I did, I think I did. So, but there’s no time.

0:09:30.9

You go. You go, you go, you go. And you have no idea. To millions of galaxies away, somewhere else, another, all over certainly you have to start all over again. True. That’s what it is. And if you are lucky, you have better life. If you are unlucky, you have miserable life. And miserable, I’m not talking about the miserable what we talk here. It’s a terrible miserable. I also forgot to inform you, uh, by the way, the Buddha says there’s a Hell realm there, too. Lot of people think, you know, you go to Hell, Hell realm, right? And they think it’s a Christian notion. They think, well, the Christian places will tell you you go to Hell if you don’t do it good. And if you do it, if you do it well you don’t go to, you go to the right side of the God. People have that notion, but Buddha also says there’s a Hell realm, too.

I don’t understand one thing. Even the Christianity, when you say you go to Hell realm if you don’t do it well, you’re not going to go in Hell in this life then, right? Has to go to another lifetime. After you die. (Students say, “Forever.”) Well, forever is, again, the Buddha says not forever. But the point is, the point really is, that something happens after you die, right? (Student speaks, inaudible.) Well that is the continuation, and that is the fundamental basis of reincarnation. (Student, inaudible) Yeah, but who goes to the Hell? Who is the soul? Yeah, that’s it. Yeah, okay, you don’t…so how do you suffer in the Hell realm without having a physical body? There’s no physical suffering, right? I mean, I’m not, I don’t mean, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t really say that. Just sort of carried away by the little thing, but I’m sure the continuation of the individual suffers. That’s why it’s called the Hell realm. Or the continuation of the individual enjoys. So there you’re in Heaven. So that is continuation. So what happens is after you die, you just don’t disappear. There’s something continue. There’s something continue. Your soul continue. The Buddhists call it consciousness. And Christians call it soul. But something is continuing. That’s the main point. Interesting. Anyway, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to get in that, but sort of funny thought went away. So I should talk from the Buddhist point. [Laughter] That’s what I know. I should not talk that things which I don’t know.

0:13:43.1

So, according to the Buddha’s teaching, or the experience the Buddha shares, is, uh, basically, the death is disconnecting. Actually, it is really you’re disconnecting your own consciousness with the existence that things what you did: your physical body, even your mental body, you disconnect that, actually. Even in Buddhism, the mind and the consciousness - technically, you really have to make separation from that. Technically. You have to make sep…technic, uh…it’s not a technique, but, ummm, theoretically, I should say. Theoretically, you have to make separation from that. So, the consciousness, what we call it, the consciousness will continue. Whether the true consciousness, as it is, will continue or not continue, is another question. But there is consciousness continue. So, it is the evolution of consciousness growing and dissolving. It does not disappear. Does not disappear completely down. And whatever has fully grown with the body and all this started gradually dissolving it, gradually dissolving in the sense [unclear short sequence] dissolve in the sense, it is disconnecting with the gross physical body outside, whatever we had. We started gradually disconnecting it. The process of which, of course it began, even we are age of 12 or 13, I think, somewhere around there, when you are fully grown…maybe it’s 25, is it? Twenty four, twenty five, something like that. When it’s fully grown, physically grown. And then the decaying system is already starting it. And gradually starting, the things doesn’t work, you know, you lose the sensation, particularly, if you’re diabetic. They always tell me that if you don’t careful, you’ll lose your toes and this and that, and all this. And that’s really exactly what’s happening is the consciousness is begin to disconnect. The consciousness and, you know, the feeling of the individual, the sensation what we experience, is also channeled throughout our body. Throughout our body, they have this travelling, they travel along with the energy, or the traditional Tibetan books will tell you, the texts or teachings will tell you, it’s that air, a-i-r, air. Air within. Air really doesn’t mean air, but the energy, which is travel…circulation. In normal western language you call it circulation. The circulation, you think the blood is circulating within you, the food is circulating. Yeah, the blood is circulating, the food is circulating, but the energy began that. It’s also circulating. Not only the pumping from the heart and pushing the blood around, but there’s a sense goes through this because when the moment when you poke your finger and get hurt you jump. All the time, because there’s a sense somebody feels here. That feeling is immediately, sort of, the message goes through. So that is the energy which goes through; the energy that also has some kind of consciousness that’s going through. That’s why six senses we have, right? Six senses. The Buddhists always talk about six senses. There’s a lot of subsidiary, smaller senses running around, all part of body. So they have begun to sort of withdraw, or they’re disconnecting it. And when you lost the contact, when you lost the connection, the message doesn’t get through. It’s no longer functioning as a sensate sense. You don’t get it. So then you started losing things, and all this. It’s started from the, from almost when you’re fully grown, like 20, 25, maybe.

0:18:51.8

And about that time it started going back down. And started coming down. I’ve been telling, you know, this white hair we get on the head, on the head, is the invitation of the death. And all this type of thing. I think this is actually process you begin. And gradually it goes into the bigger senses, you lose your hearing; maybe you may not lose, but you don’t hear it. You go on saying, “What? What?” more and more, and also nowadays you have this thing put in there. And so it may help a little bit. After sometime even that will not do that good. So that will do the glasses on. And so and forth. You know? And it is sort of the unable to function as it should have been functioning, which is the, which is the process of losing the senses, with the contact of those physical points. So you’re disconnecting it. And [unclear word] you even begin to disconnect with the memory.

0:19:59.6

So you’re getting forget, you don’t remember, you don’t know it, and you even, you know, to the extreme, sometimes you don’t even remember your own name. And you don’t recognize the person that you have been living all your life. All of them, because the memory part of that mental faculty is losing the connection with the principal mind. And all this. These are the how slowly it’s going. And, finally, you hear nothing, you see nothing, you smell nothing, but you’re still there. For now the consciousness is actually disconnecting all of the five senses. And at the end they even disconnect the principal mental faculty, that mind itself. Even they disconnect. Then, after that, you cannot function in that body, so now, according to the Buddha, after that, you cannot function in there so you cannot live in there. You cannot stay in there. You really need to get out of it. You’re suffocating in there. You’re totally suffocating. It is dark, it is a feeling of darkness, there is nothing, you see nothing, you hear nothing, and your body is no longer serviceable. So you have to go. The apartment is no longer rentable. So whether you pay the rent or not, you have to get out. Otherwise, you get [unclear word]. So, so just like that, you have to leave. So you get out. You got your consciousness, goes out of the body. So what happened is you lost the memories, you have lost all your contact, and, uh, you’re sort of reduced to a tiny little, tiny, very, very subtle little thing which doesn’t even have, which is not even tangible. No color, no smell, no taste, no shape, nothing. Nothing to behold. Something formless.

0:22:21.0

Some kind of, some kind of thing. That’s what call it. Consciousness, or me, or my soul. Whatever you may call it. Label, it’s a label given by different traditions. Different religious traditions, we give different label. And, uh, if the scientists begin to discover that, they will put another label for that. For the label is a label. It doesn’t matter whoever discover probably they put that name. Somebody. So whatever happens, that’s, that’s, the label is a label. So what’s the reality, what’s happening is that you are totally disconnected what had happened. What you have. So the process is from the small little thing, consciousness that from the fetus level [unclear word] until you’re fully grown, it sort of process this way. And then it process other way around. So started dropping gradually, dropping everything, up to the level of that tiny little nameless, faceless, shapeless, intangible, [unclear word] or that little consciousness.

0:23:42.8

And that remains for a little while. And try to look, and that is what we call it, like a little piece of, little bird - don’t think big bird - that little sparrow type - you call it sparrow, right? That little birds. Type of little feather, piece of little feather, or maybe a piece of little hair, blown by the big storm. So you have no way can trace it even. Right? If you have a little piece of hair, or something, if the storm took it, it took somewhere you would never be able to trace it. So in that manner, in that manner there is a storm of karma moving around, and that, that sort of tiny little nameless, shapeless person that called me is caught in that storm. So the control what you have is nothing in your hand. It’s totally gone. Totally gone. Noone can hold back. Nothing. It is gone with that wind. But even the gone with the wind, you have to go somewhere. Right? Even gone with the wind, when the wind drops, you have to drop somewhere. So, likewise, you’re going to connect with something else. You’re going to connect something else.

0:25:18.0

So, the period you’re disconnected from this life, and the period when you connect the next one - so I have to talk from the Buddhist point of view – so, to connect the next one, you’re still there. So, Buddhists label that as a Bardo period. So, the state in between. Bardo period. Period Bardo.

So, the moment your consciousness gone, from the death, and even the moment you click with the Bardo period - where you’re flying period, Bardo period - even that Bardo period, you’re supposed to have some kind of mental form, according to the Buddhist teaching. There’s mental form. You may not have physical form. There’s a mental form there. There’s a form. The formless period is very, very short period of the death period. It is so subtle period, it cannot be anything. Cannot be good, cannot be bad. It cannot be negative, cannot be positive. It has to be a neutral period, because it is so subtle; so subtle, so that there is not power to be positive or negative, or good or bad, or anything. It cannot have any effect, so it is a neutral state. That is the death period.

And the people who have Vajrayana developments, what do they do? What they do is they substitute this particular ordinary death. They substitute these by different practice of the Vajrayana, like the concentration on clear light, and the development of the illusion body, etcetera. Use it on this, and this is the main clear light, the mother clear light and the children clear light, connecting it; it is at the stage of the death level. Which means those people who can do that, who have that power, is not having death. They’re not dying. The death has been substitute by clear light. That is the Vajrayana point. That is not a point for us to talk, that level, these are the Vajrayana level of the talk. But you have to mention little bit because otherwise people won’t know what it is. Why the Vajrayana Buddhism is so important and so different, because that’s what happens. Whether anybody makes or not, who knows, but those who make it, they make it that way. That’s what it is.

0:28:48.4

They’re substituting the ordinary death by this clear light state. They’re substituting the ordinary death by this clear light state. But those of us who are having the ordinary death, the moment, the period where you remain in the black, the darkness state, and that was the actual death state. It is darkness. It is darkness because you don’t, you are completely disconnected. Completely disconnected. (You want to move here, Aura? Okay? Even here, there’s room here.) So, that is the period. And so, what happens is, the moment you come out of the death state, you connect to the bardo state. That state itself is called bardo. So you enter into bardo, the bardo state.

In bardo state, as I mentioned to you, they’re supposed to have some kind of mental form. It’s not physical. Mental. There’s five qualities for the bardowas. [Rimpoche speaks in Tibetan.]

0:30:08.7

In Vasubandhu’s Abhidharmakosa, the Buddhist metaphysical book, that’s called Abhidharmakosa, it has clearly mentioned how the bardo works.

I forgot word.

[Rimpoche speaks in Tibetan.]

0:30:53.9

I’m missing one word in between.

[More Tibetan.]

So, anyway, it has some kind of special karmic power. Very strong. Very powerful. That bardo person is a powerful person. Powerful in the sense, you don’t have power over you, but you can…I don’t remember the word - anyway, the point is, they cannot stuck anywhere. Whether it is a rock or a wall or whatever it is, they go through. I mean, that has the power of going through the walls and rocks and trees, and all, anything. Nothing can really stop them. They go through. We can’t go through because we have this physical body. So it gets stuck. If the door close, you try to go through, you’re not going to go through, you’re going to bang! Right? So the mental body, they don’t bang, because they go through. So that’s why there’s no block, they go through anywhere. And also, for us, we have to travel, right? We have to go, and, really, we have to drag the body, whereever you put it, in train, or plane, or car, or whatever, but you really have to drag the body in order to get in another place, that’s what you have to do. But, it’s true. [Laughter] I mean, you can’t get it there unless because this will pull us back. That’s really true. That sort of pulls you back. So that’s how the attachment pulls back. That’s what it is. So when you have the mental body, you don’t have to go, because you remember. You think about it, your mind will think about it. It’s just like here, when you sit down and close your eyes and started thinking. If you think the Greenwich Village in New York City, and you get there. Because your mind gets there, right? You don’t have to go through, you don’t have to drag the body there to get there. So, likewise, when you don’t have the physical body, when you have the mental body, the moment you think there, you get there. Doesn’t matter whether it is five million miles away, or it is two blocks away. It doesn’t matter, they take the same time. There’s no time difference of the traveling, because you don’t have to travel. You just think, you get there. Get it?

0:33:47.4

[Rimpoche speaks in Tibetan]

They’re supposed to have all their five senses.

[More Tibetan]

They have karmic power. So now, I forget. I forgot the words, I’m sorry. But the point is, they’re supposed to have a physical body. Not physical - mental body, which can be recognized among themselves, each other. Those bardowas can sort of talk to each other. They can communicate to each other. They can convey message to each other. But they cannot talk to us. We cannot talk to them, unless you have certain special power. Or the psychic power, or whatever it is. It is quite interesting. Recently, I saw a movie where some guy goes down, something to do with the bank, and he got killed, and his consciousness is going around, and tries to talk to his girlfriend. “Ghost,” right? I mean it’s very similar to it. There’s a lot of truth in that. The bardowas are like that. You’re powerless. You do have tremendous karmic power, to be able to go and [unclear word] and all this. And do you remember that Coca Cola [unclear word]? The try to move, in the train. And they try to kick. You don’t move because you don’t have a physical thing, you don’t move. And the other old ghost tells him that you have to use your mental power if you move. I mean, they’re really true. At the bardo state, it functions like that. It’s all you have to work by the mind power, and not by the…nothing [unclear word] works.

0:36:00.2

So you can have tremendous power. You can jump in the running train, jump out of the running train, and all this. They’re big. However, you can’t even move a penny. You have to have very strong mental focus to put in.

[Rimpoche speaks in Tibetan]

0:36:30.8

So how do you look like it? According to the Buddhist teaching and the movie what is the difference is, how do you look like it? In the movie they try to show you it looks like the same old person. Otherwise, you cannot connect, right? We cannot connect. But, according to the Buddhist teaching, you don’t look like your old person at all. You will look like about youth of 30, 48 of your future life. Not the past life, but the future. So that’s why it is extremely difficult to recognize. Then a lot of people will ask the question: that can’t be true because so and so died, they came back and talked to the family. This and that, you know, there’s a lot of those stories. And what is that? They’re not lying. There is truth in that. There’s truth in that. The truth is, I mean according the Buddhist text - I can’t say true because I have no experience, I didn’t die yet. According to the Zen teacher: “I’m not dead yet, so I don’t know.” Right? So, but what is really, when you are born, along with you, there’s a number of spirits also born with that. The terminology in the Buddhist text they use is:

[Rimpoche speaks in Tibetan]

0:38:15.8

In the Tibetan, which means simultaneously born spirits. So, what happened is, there’s millions of spirits, that consciousness, millions of consciousness, who could not get a proper rebirth, had probably reborn as some kind of spirit, which probably a ghost. When they say, it’s not me, it’s my ghost. I mean, there’s a truth in that. So you’re probably born with a certain number of different ghosts, too. They can be ghosts, or they can be god - small ‘g’ god, not big ‘G’ God, but small ‘g’ god, they can be. Yeah, true. The good ones, I would label them small ‘g’ god, and bad ones, label them hungry ghost. So that’s how the division of that. So, so what they do is they have the simple strong attachment. When they’re unable to take rebirth easily, so whatever sort of identity they can hold of it, so they got your identity, because they’re born, simultaneously born, with you. So they have your identity with you. Not identity card. Not the driver’s license, but the real identity to identify, it’s there. So they carry your name, they know your secret, and they’re longing, and they will appear and tell you the stories, too. And then you cannot 100% rule that’s not the person who died before, because sometimes the person who died can become ghost, and they can come back and tell you the truth, too. So you cannot say 100% this way, or 100% that way. These are the possibilities, how it works.

0:40:15.8

So, let’s say we don’t become a ghost. We become another human being, let’s say. So, the period, the bardo period, the period of flying around, bardo period, intermediate state, it’s limited for 49 days. There’s a total limited for 49 days. For 49 days of your past life. The time period allowed to have that, maximum period, is 49 days. Minimum, from 1 second, to 49 days. That is the period what they have. So, when you get exhausted that period, then you become a spirit, like a ghost or whatever, that type of, you go in that category. You’re no longer in the intermediate bardo period.

So let’s say our rebirth, you find another human form. Another human form. Now this is going to touch a sensitive subject, but, whatever it is, I have to tell you whatever I know. So, the moment you connect another rebirth, these bardowas, or the intermediate persons, can run through everything, except, two blocks they have, two. One, I don’t know, it is the Hindu Buddhist mythological thing. They said that when the Buddha had obtained enlightenment, in Bodhgaya, that under the ground, under the layer of the ground in Bodhgaya, they cannot pass through. That’s what they say. It has something to do with a lot of Hindu Buddhist mythological thing. So, let’s leave that out. Second thing what they [unclear word] is the rebirth. Wherever the rebirth going to take, once they hit that place, they cannot get in or out. You are tapped in. That’s what it is. You are tapped in. The tapped in, and then the moment it started growing. The evolution of you know, going, going down to [unclear word] from nothing, to that level, and then it started again. Then there’s sort of 86,000 different, um, some kind of physical thing. And 80 different mental functioning things, which started gradually developing, and maturing until the fully grown level. And then process again. Again to the back same old position. So, when we say samsara, when we say continuation of life, and that’s what we’re talking about. When we say life after life, continuation. That’s what the Buddhist, that is the true reincarnation. When you talk about incarnation, that’s really what that is. It’s nothing great, nothing big. And never think of coming back to the same old house. It is very difficult to come back. But you may come back after 100 different lives or something, but then everything’s different. But that’s what it is. And in the west, some people like the idea of incarnate because they don’t want to die. They want to live forever. So there’s a good [unclear words]. Oh yeah, that’s right, and so there you find try to take comfort out of it. “No, I’m not going to die. Even I die here, I come back, right? So let me save my blue jeans here so that I come back and wear it,” or something. So, anyway, but you can’t use your bank money because bank will not recognize your signature. You will get your blue jeans back, but….That’s joke. So, anyway. Probably blue jeans will not fit either.

0:45:17.8

So, and that is called incarnation. [Next sentence interrupted by brief audio glitch in original recording.] Who makes the decision? That is the question. So, according to the Buddha, or the Buddhist teaching, no one makes the decision. No one makes the decision. Because if somebody’s making decision, I mean, the person who makes the decision is compassionate one. Then you have to always have good life because somebody can not, somebody have that…[again, audio problem in original recording.]

0:46:26.1

Another karma. There’s four different types of karma you can talk. But here, let’s talk about two. One is the karma that will, sort of, run through. Through the birth to death, there’s one karma. There’s another karma is pushing through that. Sort of, [unknown Tibetan or Sankrit word starting with ‘p’] karma and [unknown Tibetan or Sanskrit word starting with ’s’ or ’tso…’ or ‘dzo…’] karma. So the karma that, sort of push you like springboard type of thing. To…what you call those?…boosting karma. A boosting karma, the boosting karma will boost you up, throw you up, and so you click to the karma which you run through the life, from the birth to death. There are a million different karmas will run in between, and that’s why you feel good, you feel bad, and you feel high, you feel low, and all this are because there’s a million different karma runs up and down. But at the same time there’s one karma which is running through your life, basically. Basic [unclear word(s)] of your karma. So that is called [unknown Tibetan or Sanskrit word starting with ’s’ or ’tso…’ or ‘dzo…’] karma, karma which completes your life. So [unknown Tibetan or Sanskrit word starting with ‘p’] karma, karma which throws you out, or pump you, and whichever that karma will click to the [’s’] karma, you know, so when you are running through, with the storm, somebody will hit you, little powerful thing. Little powerful air, and you’re stuck here. And then your power of running around everywhere has been disconnected. So that is the [‘p’] karma, that pump, push you, and clicks you. And then this running karma will take over.

0:48:44.6

So, it depends on the karma, whatever you have. It’s exactly the monster which we created will govern us. If you look in those science fiction movies, you look at them, and the scientist will create a big monster, and then they don’t know how to control it, they start controlling you. Right? They show that all the time. Very similar to that, there’s a karma we created and we can’t control it. We lost control, totally. We lost the control. You don’t have control over. They control it. They control it when they’re running. And when they’re not running, you have to control it. This is very tricky part of it. Some people will think, “I have no control over my karma.” That’s not true. You have control on your karma as long as this karma’s not running. Right? It is very similar. Very similar. If the Senator is running for election, you all have the control. You all have vote to put him off or on. You have that. Once he’s elected, it is very difficult to call him back. So he has the control.

0:50:23.5

We have seen the governor angle [unclear word]. Same thing. Now you have the idea of the campaign going around to call governor back. It’s difficult, until he finishes his time. It’s difficult. It’s like he’s got the control. He’s got a karma running. So you have no control over. But before you put him in, you have the control in your hands. And just like that, every karma, when they started functioning, when they take the office, and when they started running, you can do nothing. It is the characteristic of karma. That’s why I called, karma is definite. So that’s why this word, “evolution,” something where they said, definite word they use it - what’s that word they use? - “inexorable.” You can’t change it. Right? Does it mean? Yeah, so unchangeable. You cannot manipulate. You cannot do anything. So, as long as they’re running. That’s what happens. So, the gross karma is definite. Until they start running, you can change. You have everything in your hand. In your hand. You don’t even have to share with others, like a [unclear word] boarding the governor or the senator. You may have one board; there’s millions of other boards. Right? Make difference. Your one board will also make difference. But karma’s not like this. Your own karma, so the board is only you board, nobody else board. So you can board. So you have the control when they are not running. When they are the stage of - what we call it? - stage of, sleeping state. They’re not functioning. They’re there, ready to go. And they’re sort of…[student speaks, inaudible]…yeah, they’re not activated. And it is sitting there. Once we activate that, then you cannot really do anything. Don’t ask me why. There is no logical reason I can give you. So, karma is such a subtle thing. That gone beyond our level of understanding, logically, or systematically. We have to really rely on a lot of the words of those enlightened beings. The Buddha always have a way of saying it. Whenever he give teaching he say, “Don’t buy because I said so. You do whatever you have to do, like buying gold, and all this.” You always hear that. But, when you talk about the karma, then they say Buddha change his statement. He said, “The stars can fall under the ground, and the ground can go, the lower part of the ground under the water can go the higher, and the higher peak can go under the ground and under the water, and this and that. But the stars can fall down. But enlightened will never tell lie on the issue of the karma.” They have to go to that extreme, and then tell you.

0:54:07.2

So, in order to understand - not understand - you can understand the karma theoretically, as I’ve been talking to you. But to really do understand it, to make sense to you, you really have to have some kind of faith in the karma. Whether it can be intelligent or whatever it might be. Some kind of faith, according to that, your karma works. So, in other words, you just have to buy the word. Otherwise, you prove otherwise. Sort of, you take it that way. That’s what really is. Because it is gone beyond our human intelligence. To be able to at this moment, to understand it. Future time, it may be; but at this moment, no. So, basically, that is how karma functions. Karma is definite. Once they started taking shape, they can’t do anything. I’m not sure whether you people have noticed or not - some of might have noticed - when the Dalai Lama was here last month - was it last month or month before? - anyway, end of April, early part of May. So, in Washington, he had that press conference, and somebody asked him question - in that, I think it’s press conference, or maybe the talk he gave in the National Cathedral, one of them - they asked, “What do you think what’s happening in the former Yugoslavia? What best can you do?” And Dalai Lama turned back and said, “This is not fault of anybody else but the politicians. Of the old politicians. You are seeing it clearly, they are going to have trouble. And before the trouble breaks, people should have to taking action, and prevented everything. So now they’re taking the full circle, full bloom,” he said, full bloom. “And so, until the circle complete, no one can do anything.” So he’s thinking from the karmic line. And when the karma is fully functioning, you, I mean, hopeless. Everybody has to watch. I mean, the whole world may worry, but you worry and watch it. You can’t do anything. Because the karmic circle takes that away. It’s the same thing when our karma that we have to die, when the dying karma takes place, no matter whatever you do - you may have the best doctor in the world, and best medicine, medication available. Best healer standing behind you, even the best Buddha or something, standing behind, and all this. Maybe the medicine Buddha himself comes and gives you medicine. And whatever they do, you won’t survive. You’ll die. Because of that karmic power. So, it is so powerful. But your own deed and your own experience. Your own creation which you experienced. That’s what it is. And that is how the samsara functions.

0:57:27.8

So, what we’ve been doing is repeating this again and again and again and again. So, it is time for us to cut that out. So, what pulls you back is, again, the attachment. Again, the attachment…that pulls you back. So that’s why when you want to build a strong freedom - strong determination to be free - when you really want to be the freedom, you have to pull out all the attachment of these and the futures. The word what you said is what…

[Rimpoche speaks in Tibetan]

0:58:18.6

So what happened is, if you keep on thinking this points, and thinking this points, and meditating again and again on that, and then give you some understanding in that, and then they begin to see, then you begin to see, not only the pointless of material world, but even the pointless if this keeps on repeating it one after another. So then you begin to see the pointlessness. And then you begin to see, what is the worth of doing it. What is the worth? Where is the really something solid good? I don’t know whether there’s something called solid good or bad, but what is the really good, and where is that? And then the Buddhism begin to introduce the nirvana. The nirvana…and samsara and nirvana. Sort of, side of this and side of that. The nirvana side where you have no problem, the freedom, sort of, picnic, heavenly, happy style of thing, they will introduce you there. And that is how, you see. But in order to have interest on this, you have to see the problem on this side. And right now what we have is interest here. We don’t - even our problems, we will see them as a problem, or as procedure, or whatever it is. Somehow, the problems here, we will try to solve them one by one, which is definitely you can do, but at the same time there will be continuation of problems that will never end. ’Til the cows come home. [Laughter] You can keep on solving the problems, but it will continue.

1:00:26.1

So…[more laughter]…I learned that expression last week, so…[laughter]….So, so it is there. So, what happened is it is not individual problem by a problem. But it is the whole total structure of the [“life as we are talking” (?) Unclear sequence.] And if they keep on repeating it, even you commit suicide, you do it again. You have to do it again because the pointless on the committing suicide is because you repeat the same thing. Even worse manner. You may probably be suicide hundred times more. Because of the karma. The karma is such a funny thing. You may just think of it, I kill somebody, I have a killing karma, I get killed, I get clear it off, paid out. No, it’s not. You get paid out that particular karma, that’s okay; but, along with that, the side effect of that, the side effect of that is, and you build some kind of habit, some kind of habit in that, some kind of addiction you’re building. So what will happen is, it is the, you will like to do it again and again. And that’s why, if you look at some kids, some kids will just like to kill anything they see. They would like to kill, all the time. Some kids would like to save, save; and save lives and do this. That is the addiction or habit they built in the previous life. So what happened is the worst of the karma result is not what you pay, but this addiction is the worst of result. So which will make more and more continue. So, that is the internal evil ignorance work. Internal, evil ignorance work at how to keep yourself, ourself, in that prison of samsara. That’s how they keep it. And that is the continuation of the, continuation of the rope, the iron rope that tied you down to the identity, and have the function of the samsara continue. That’s how it works. So when you are making free, you’re freeing from that, you’re freeing from the rope. You are detaching yourself from the glue, and you are taking it away from that pointless, waiting ’til the cows come home. And that’s what it is.

1:03:23.2

So that covers that part. Right? The next is, [student reads from text, inaubible]. Thank you.

[Rimpoche speaks in Tibetan]

1:03:50.6

That is the words she read, translated. So by thinking that, by meditating that, when you really begin to see it, and then you really see things are a little below. You don’t really withdraw from them, but it is a little bit lower, you know, not - the things that are meant so much, that you are willing to die for it before, it doesn’t really make that sense. You begin to question that. And things like that, you know, things that “I must have that,” because, some people, when they see something beautiful, they must have it; otherwise, they’ll die. Whatever. And all of them, you begin to see, “Well, is there really purpose for that? Is it really meaning?” Well, you have to go with that. You have to have that, but it’s not that important. There’s something more important than that. So, the change with the outlook of the individual to dealing with everything will slightly change. But when you change, you have to change carefully, too. You don’t want it to be a, “I couldn’t care less, whatever it is.” Okay, you cannot become a total, um, you know, the attitude that we picked up in the 60’s. You cannot go to, that is going extreme again. That is again gone to extreme. So, but, you are not, sort of you have to find between the yippies and hippies. In between, balancing in between. So, just to make a simple [unclear word], you know, you have to make balance in between. So, that’s how you have to look. And uh, so, if you keep on thinking that, keep on thinking that, are driving you crazy by the something in the life, whatever is happening, a lot happening, or happening, are driving you crazy and making you mad, you will go away from that. You will go away from that. You will be sort of more matured in the spiritual field. That’s what really word. You will become more matured, and your views are much more bright. You see much more. And you’re not looking from the death, from the birth to death, you’re looking after, the life after life view. And you’re also looking overall view of the every existence.

1:06:32.0

And every environmental effects. And individuals within that. You’re sort of, your view of overlooking on the life much more than that narrowly thinking, “It is beautiful, I have to have it! Otherwise, I’ll die! Otherwise, my life is meaningless,” blah, blah, blah. And all this type of thing. You’ll be a little more matured. And more matured, and more looking, and more seeing, and taking account of whole karmic system, the whole universal system, and looking that way. And that is the beginning of getting the determination to be free development. That will be first spiritual development within individual. When you’re picking that up. Then you can’t pretend to have that. Lot of people like to pretend. They pretend: “Oh, at the end, it all zero, make no difference. I understand, I have seen it all.” All these are totally fooling yourself again. And I’m telling you, you’re fooling yourself again, though you don’t see it. You understand, and you feel it, your broader view, you’ll be more matured, but nothing of you seeing it, doing it, everything, you don’t get it at this level at all. Not only this level, even quite higher level, you don’t get it. So that takes much more. But this is the beginning of grounding the individual on the spiritual path and developing one little thing called development, you’re getting it. That will be the foundation of development. And then you build some on top of it.

1:08:27.7

So, out of Three Principles, I believe the First Principle is over. The line just now Kathy read is the sign if you develop that within you, this is the sign, that feeling you get it. When you’re feeling that, and then you have this as a sign that you have that development. So, the sign of spiritual development, also, you see how your mental capacity functions. They will not measure whether you can fly in the air, or get under the ground, or read somebody’s mind. They don’t measure in that way at all. Thank you. Any questions?

1:09:16.3

Audience: Is there some effect, the longer you’re in the bardo, the lower your birth?

Rimpoche: No. Make no difference. If you have extremely heavy positive or negative karma, then your bardo period is short. Because they really drag you up or down. That’s what it is. Bardo period will be shorter. Sort of, like us, not so extreme this way or that way, we hang around and fly around a while. Because the heavy karma people, good or bad, they pull it.

Audience: [Inaudible]

Rimpoche: The job of the boosting karma is to boost you and pump you up.

Audience: [Inaudible]

Rimpoche: That’s your own karma.

Audience: Is it coming from another life, or is it coming from this life and what I’m doing with it now?

Rimpoche: It probably comes from another life. Or could be coming from this life.

Audience: Is there an exhaustion of karma before enlightenment? [The rest of this question becomes inaudible]

Rimpoche: I don’t think so. If there’s no good karma you cannot enlighten. Enlightenment is also a karmic result. When you finish exhaust all bad karma, you’re only left with good karma, you become enlightened. Then you go to the right side of the God. And when you exhausted all white, all good karma, then you go to the left side of the god. [Laughter]. No, really true.

Audience: [Inaudible]

Rimpoche: We’re always moving forward in time. I don’t think we go backwards at all. We always move forwards.

1:12:09.7

Audience: [partially inaudible. Basic thrust of question was asking whether Rimpoche, earlier in the teaching, was referring to natural death, or, perhaps euthanasia, when he spoke of the body no longer being serviceable.]

Rimpoche: It might be. Even Dr. Kevorkian’s help, they have to make the body unserviceable, in order to make the consciousness leave the body. Even at service of Kevorkian. You have to put something in, make the body unserviceable, whether it is a gas or poison, or whatever it might be.

Audience: This is relating to the clear light: I just was curious what the difference is when you see the clear light and when you’re in the bardo state.

Rimpoche: Oh, they’re extremely different.

Audience: Well, can you explain just a little bit what they’re experiencing when they’re seeing the clear light that’s different from when you’re just residing in the bardo plane?

Rimpoche: The bardo plane, as I’m telling you, you’re running around all places. No control. The clear light state, you’re not even running anywhere. You are in a concentrated meditative state. And the bardo period, it can be like taking a drugs. And can be very comfortable, or can be fearful. Can be very fearful, or very funny experience. Or nice and smooth feeling. So the clear light stage, there is no fear and no wrathful thing at all.

Audience: So do these people pass on to their next life, like you were saying, you can do it within a second, rather than 49 days. Would they pass on right away, or would they reside in this meditative, clear light state for a period of time?

Rimpoche: [Beginning inaudible] Well, my late father remained fourteen days, or something. And even Kyabje Ling Rimpoche stayed about thirteen days. And then, basically, the sort of most, some just like that, but some, basically, remains every like fifty two hours, or something like that.

1:15:20.8

Audience: Why is it wrong or unclear of you to say it doesn’t matter what we do because it all comes out the same in the end?

Rimpoche: Because it makes difference. It doesn’t come out the same. That is wrong. But you may think it is empty at the end. Emptiness. But emptiness doesn’t mean it’s empty. Because, lot of, hell of lot of different things happen.

Audience: I don’t know the reasons why that would be true, or that, I can accept that that’s the answer, but I don’t know why that’s the case. Why that’s true.

Rimpoche: Well, it’s always different, isn’t it? Whatever you do, it makes difference. Because of the karmic. The moment you…karma is something which doesn’t [inaudible].

Audience: [Inaudible]

Rimpoche: Generally, you call it “time.” That is permanent. But within the time, the individual time, of your time, my time, is impermanent. Time is permanent. Your time and my time is impermanent. Enlightenment is permanent. Human being is permanent. And you being human being and I being human being is impermanent.

Audience: …rebirths after rebirths…it seems [inaubible] it would all balance itself out in the end.

Rimpoche: Because our habit, the habitual patterns will tell you. Our habits will act. We don’t just sit there, we do something. We always do. Whenever we do something, we create a karma. And that karma will make a difference. So the habit will make negative karma move, so that individual time is longer. Individual, it becomes heavier. That’s how it makes difference.

1:18:47.2

Audience: In the text it says then you experience transcendent renunciation. Can you describe that for me?

Rimpoche: [inaudible]…determination to be free. Then you really have the idea of “I really need to be free.” Until then, you say, “I like freedom. I like to be free.” But we don’t have the really drive, and really, we don’t understand, and we don’t really get it. So we don’t have that. But by meditating on this, if you begin to understand, when you know how things are functioning, then you really have the urge of moving yourself, whatever the direction may be. And that’s called transcendental. Transcendent means you transcend, means go beyond, right? Go above or beyond. You transcend from the ordinary level of looking in the life and functioning. You transcend from that. Go better way, like the transcendental meditations are actually supposed to bring you to that level. That’s what it is.

Audience: [Broken up]. Being unable to move or to act. You say the actions create karma. Is that correct?

Rimpoche: Every action will create karma. But we cannot go karma-less. There is no such thing called karma-less. So what we want to get out of it, out of the negative karmas out, and get into the positive karma.

Audience: …Not able to move. There are periods of time when people are unable to move.

[Unclear sequence back and forth]

Rimpoche: …you’re doing nothing, but you’re still creating a karma….You may be physically doing nothing, but you’ve been active in mentally. And even by act of not doing anything, can be positive and negative. And if it is negative [unclear word] it will create negative karma, and if it is positive act it will create positive karma.

Audience: [Unclear]

Rimpoche: Even mental. A lot of karma create mentally, not physically. Mentally. [Unclear interval]

I mean, it is the whole point. It is whole point. It is the whole point. So, that’s why the Buddha recommends, if Buddhist practitioners, early in the morning, always recommend you sit down, and think. And think and have a good motivation for every day. Good motivation, whatever I’m going to do today, whatever I’m going to do for the rest of my life, and lives, particularly today, what I’m going to do I’m going to be able to do positive and good, and this and that. And the motivations you do in the morning. So that helps. Even you do nothing, it becomes, it doesn’t become negative. It can become positive. So, because of the mental capacity. So, the motivation in the morning. Every morning, they recommend it for that.

1:23:14.1

Audience: How do you know if you’re creating good karma if the mind creates illusion? For example, Kevorkian and the whole issue of what he’s doing. He thinks he’s doing something that’s good.

Rimpoche: You don’t. You don’t know. I mean, basically, we have to say, Kevorkian is doing bad. We have to say that. Because of the society, because of killing, and also [unclear word]. Whether he’s really doing good or bad, who knows. To tell you the truth, and it will only know when his karma reacts on him. And that’s how we’ll know. But we all won’t be there. We can’t witness, let the God come down and tell him you’re wrong. You can’t see that. Won’t be able to do that.

Audience: What is the Buddhist view on euthanasia? On what Kevorkian’s doing?

Rimpoche: [First part inaudible] But whether you have right to kill yourself, or not, the Buddhist doesn’t come in that. The right business is the legal business. I don’t think Buddha’s coming that. And whether he gets killing karma, sure. That is no question. He gets killing karma. No question. He does get killing karma. And that is his business. It’s not for us. We have no right to tell him it’s right or wrong. That is his - if he wants to find out, he should find out. That is, I’m talking about from spiritual point. Legally, I don’t know.

1:25:23.9

Audience: [Inaudible]

Rimpoche: You get a karma of killing a human being. Even you kill yourself. And if you’re vajrayana practitioner, you will not only have karma of killing yourself, but you will have karma of killing god.

Audience: Question has to do with the role of intention in the creation of karma. In particular, as pertains to Kevorkian and euthanasia.

Rimpoche: He may have good intention. I can’t say, right? But along with that good intention, he also has a motivation and intention saying that “I have to disconnect a life.” That is good enough to have killing karmas thought. And he may say, “Oh, well, I’m sorry, I had to do that. Now, anyway, the person died.” So he may not say, “I got it,” but the person died, so that is good enough to complete that.

Audience: I was going to say, so did the suffering die, but that doesn’t…[becomes inaudible]

Audience: You had said that the bardo being has this special power, where their mind is their body goes at the same time. How is that different than the mind body union of the enlightened?

Rimpoche: Mind body [of enlightened] has no limit of being here or there. This one has limit. This one goes here, you can’t have same time, there. One thought will come. Two thoughts cannot come together. So if the bardowa is thinking New York, middle of New York, Greenwich Village, at that moment that thought is encountered in Greenwich Village, and that very thought at that time is not sitting on the [unclear word] in Detroit overlooking the Detroit River and the Canadian side.

Audience: Questioner articulates question such that it sounds as though questioner’s understanding is that bardowa takes body of future life.

Rimpoche: [Rimpoche’s response largely inaudible] You’re not taking the body of your future rebirth. Looks like, appearance…that period of consciousness. I’m not even sure whether there is mind or not.

1:29:02.3

Audience: If the bardo being is having alot of discursive thought, in other words, many, many thoughts, like most individuals do when they try to sit down to meditate, does that mean the bardo being will be experiencing that level of chaos at a physical manifest level?

Rimpoche: That’s right. That’s right. Exactly, exactly. But even then, they’re limited to 50 different or something. Not 500 or 5 million different things. They’re not seeing it. One at a time.

Audience: Where does the responsibility for another’s death begin and end? If you can possibly do something to keep another from dying, is that a responsibility? Are you responsible for that person’s death if you don’t do everything?

Rimpoche: I don’t think so. In America, people would like to help, and then, sort of, then they help, they go beyond limit. They don’t draw the line. So I have to do everything, otherwise I’ll be responsible. But you will not. Karmically, you’re definitely not responsible. You have to do whatever you can do, if you’re asked to do it; or, if it is your responsibility. And if it is not your responsibility, if you don’t do anything, that person died, and you have no responsibility. Though maybe you’re around there. You may be watching. You may be nurse. And you have to do everything within your [unclear word] responsibility. But if you are nurse and you know if you treat it differently this person will leave, but did not, because the person died, the nurse has no responsibility, no karmic responsibility for whatsoever. But the doctors do.

Audience: We decide as a society to allocate resources in one area which may prolong life, but not in another which might prolong life.

Rimpoche: These are collective karmic responsibility. This is different. Now you call it collective karmic responsibility. The collective karma is totally different. Today we are living in this universe. This universe, we are sharing with everybody in this university. Excuse me, universe. The universe is the collective karmic result. And as we are sitting here, the temperature, the wall, the house, the environment, everything, is our common karmic, collective karmic result. And the moment we disposed of the collective karma, karmic result disposed of, then the collective karma, maybe two persons’, or one person’s, or whatever it is, that goes on changing in that way. It’s not really depend on the society, but society depends, sort of, very much interlinked in that. That’s what I understand.

1:33:35.1