Archive Result

19931109GR12L8

0:00:05.2 The 12 links of the dependent origination – how the life is taking place, what is happening on the basis of the Buddhist tradition. We do have the pictures and tangkas and all of them. Incidentally I did notice in the big, thick Lam Rim transcript you have, we also have talked quite a lot about the 12 links there. We even provided a chart, where the different translators used different names. Aura showed me that 2 days ago and I don’t read English. Whether it is my talk or somebody’s talk, I don’t look back. If I read two pages I have to leave it. I don’t know what it is. There is also quite a lot in there. So we talked about the first link, confusion or ignorance. What is confused with what?

Audience: confused with the true nature of mind?

Rimpoche: You can say that, but almost anywhere, wherever we are confused we create a lot of things anyway. It is easy to link up from the first link to the second, action, and if you are confused you can definitely create a lot of different actions. If you are not confused you will probably not create negative actions anyway. And then what is the third one?

Audience: Consciousness

Rimpoche: What does that mean?

0:03:10.7 Audience: Consciousness flits from one thing to another.

0:03:54.2 Rimpoche: I need a little more detail….

0:03:54.2 There is the causal consciousness and the result consciousness. The causal consciousness is usually the consciousness that by ignorance creates wrong actions and later the result consciousness will experience the consequences.

0:04:26.1 Rimpoche: That’s a good answer. You said that causal consciousness creates the confusion? The action? Then what happens?

0:04:54.7 Audience: We experience the results of those actions.

0:05:06.Rimpoche: When?

0:05:07.5 Audience: At the period of the result consciousness, which is actually going out at the same time.

Rimpoche: what happens in between?

Audience: in between cause and result?

Rimpoche: the moment you create the cause, you don’t get the result immediately, right? So what happens?

Audience: it makes an imprint.

Rimpoche: on what?

Audience: on the result consciousness.

Rimpoche: Is that right, then when you experience the result what happens?

Audience: It would also influence the result consciousness.

Rimpoche: So it leaves the imprint on what?

Audience: on the consciousness

Rimpoche: on the causal consciousness, result consciousness or somewhere else?

Audience: I have to say both

Rimpoche: But you can’t leave it on both because the result consciousness is not there at that time.

Audience: The result consciousness now acts as the causal consciousness

0:06:31.7 And the imprint would be on the causal consciousness.

Rimpoche: Great, thank you. So the consciousness, when you divide it, is not only [as source of] influence but also provides the basis on which you can leave the imprints of the karmic actions you have. Otherwise we lose the total basis on which we can leave the imprints. We don’t want to lose that. Then what is the fourth one?

0:07:12.4 Audience: name and form

Rimpoche: What is name and what is form?

Audience: physical form and mind

Rimpoche: When you have this particular link system, at that level are all the forms included or certain parts of form are created or what kind of aspect of form are you referring to?

Audience: From the parents, the sperm and egg form and the four mindfulnesses

Rimpoche: Do you agree with that? Do you think they have mindfulness at that time? Everybody is shaking their heads. Is that consciousness able to think at that time? Both form and name are referred to cover a particular period of life. Actually it is the period where we link name and form. It is only that time that the parents do contribute, at that level. So the individual’s consciousness is now stuck in there and is that consciousness really able to concentrate? I doubt it very much. So I don’t think there is mindfulness in that. The question rises: what is name referred to?

Audience: I believe we are talking here about the psycho-physical aggregates.

Rimpoche: That’s right. And that covers the fourth. Now, the fifth is a period that is a little longer than that, the sixth one is even longer and the seventh is even beyond that and by the eighth one, one is able to grow attachment and so forth and feel and have attachment and so on. We can come back and talk about that. We still have a couple more weeks, so it’s no problem.

I asked you questions and it looks like it’s okay, so now I would like to open to any other questions you have – anything

Audience: My question is about the 49 days of the bardo. Once the consciousness of the bardo being is attracted to the father and mother, they are attracted to one sex or the other depending on what their gender will be. My question is: if they are not going into the human realm, is it a birth process or do they somehow just fly there? How are they attracted to a hell realm or animal realm or god realm. What’s the attraction here? What’s the thing that attracts them?

0:12:41.8 Rimpoche: Good question. What we normally say is that sometimes when people, when human beings die, sometimes a human being feels so cold a little before dying and because of that there is a tremendously strong urge and wish to be warm and a strong attachment to heat. Lets say that a person may go to a lower realm, not to a hell realm. So that person generated a tremendous amount of desire for heat. That will probably force the individual to be born in a hot place. Vice versa with cold.

Attachment does not necessarily have to be attachment to something great. It can be very strange things that people get attached to. It is a very dirty saying. We Tibetan have a funny saying:

Pen na tong gye pan gyu kup 0:14:44.6 (laughs) I am sorry, it may sound dirty when you translate it in English:

Some people have very strong attachment to (laughs) – I better don’t say that word…..

It is strange, really true. Okay, I say it: some people have strange attachment, even to the donkey’s ass. That’s what it is. So it is not necessarily great, but it is attachment. I am sorry about that, but it is.

0:16:10.0 Attachment is such a thing, it doesn’t have to be so great, particularly attachment is exaggeration. It picks up some good quality, whatever it is, whether or not it exists in the object that you are attached to, whether it is a body or mind or combination or place or article or something movable or immovable, whatever it is, you tremendously exaggerate and probably project it almost as the best in the world, to that extent. Attachment is capable of exaggerating and does it. Then the individual seeks that and is really attached and is willing to even die for it.

0:17:20.0 Attachment has that capability. So it does not necessarily have to be great. Pigs are attached to slums. Mosquitoes are attached to blood and swampy areas. Not necessarily great.

Audience: So if you are attached to a hot, hot place you better freeze to death, otherwise you are going to a hot hell…

Rimpoche: Not necessarily. It works sure, definitely. But I don’t know how long you want to stay there. So that’s the problem. So we have no shortage of attachment. We can get attached to anything, anywhere. That’s true reality.

Audience: Will mantras protect you from attachment in the bardo? If you feel attached and in danger of getting swept away?

Rimpoche: Mantras? Do you think bardo was can say mantras?

Audience: If that interest is in their consciousness…

Rimpoche: Do you think the bardo was won’t forget how to say mantras at all? Can you do that in the bardo period? Will you remember? I doubt it. The person when they die forget a lot of things. That will raise another big question, but you do forget a lot of things. Your memory is almost stripped off completely. You even forget your own name. You won’t know who you are, actually even long before you die. You will not know who you are. We know that, people who are dying in hospital, if you ask them for their name, they don’t remember any more. So it is very difficult to remember mantras at that time unless you are so used to it. If you are very used to it you can go back to the mantra. It is possible.

0:20:34.8 That also has to be a mantra you are used to. Kyabje Lhatsun Rinpoche, one of our great teachers in Tibet, died, after living a long life, during the Culture Revolution. Whenever he fell asleep, no matter what he was doing, he went to the migtsema. Whether he was doing prayers or saying another sadhana or giving teachings, when he fell asleep or even semi-falling asleep he went straight back to the migtsema or Yamantaka’s OM HRI STRIH VIKRITA NANA HUM PHAT, either one of them. So people at that level, yes, sure. So check with yourself. When you fall asleep, do you find yourself say the migtsema? And bardo was find even much more difficult to remember, because that is the period in between.

0:21:48.3 You might have gone for a very short period in that, compared to the period of our life, but it really strips off all your memory. You leave everything. Therefore, whether the mantra can protect you from attachment is doubtful. It is very difficult to say no either. Your question is a very tricky one. You can’t say completely no, because there is blessings, there is mantra power, there is something. Even a second or third person doing mantras and rituals for you is able to help. That’s also there. So you cannot totally say no. But basically, the chances are more no than yes. You can’t say no completely because a lot of other things are there. Percentage-wise, maybe it is 60% no and 40% yes.

0:23:11.1 Audience: What exactly is memory in Tibetan Buddhism?

Rimpoche: It is the mental faculty of recollection. That will only function if the basic mind is at the gross level. If the basic mind is at the subtle level it is capable of doing one thing only, one and one only. When the mind is at the subtle level it’s capability is only one, whatever you are focused on, it is capable of only doing one thing. At the gross level it is capable of moving around here and there. We learn to be able to do two or three things together, with one consciousness at one time. You can learn that, but otherwise, at the subtle level the mind is capable of doing only one thing. I don’t think it is capable of reading the memory back.

Audience: Is it oral memory or virtual memory?

Rimpoche: Whatever it is. There are many categories of memory. Sometimes Tibetan Buddhism is so strange. It is almost scientific. They make all these categories and packages and there are a lot of those systems. For almost any of the mental faculties, except the five [omnipresent] consciousness has to be a gross level, a little gross level, not totally gross level.

Audience: You may be able to get the bardo muscle memory if you can catch yourself right in the middle of where you slip into unconsciousness or non-virtue or whatever, there is a way to practice and if you can practice 24/7 a day you can catch yourself and actively practice. I think that can quality as the enlightened stage at the bardo level where one can actually learn and function.

Rimpoche: I doubt it. One can hope to, but I do not know if you can really rely on it in that way.

Audience: I like to think that we can experience the bardo even now, and I don’t think people stop adjusting in the bardo….

Rimpoche: During life any transition I don’t think we can it death stage nor bardo stage. The 12 links will tell you exactly. That will definitely not happen. It is very definite. There are the four periods: birth, death, bardo and and in between and I don’t think there is a common thing in there at all. They are really totally separate divisions where you can cut and identify. We do have a thing called mu sum and mu zhi, sometimes there are two commons or three commons or four or whatever, but in those four categories I don’t think there is anything common. So it is the totally clear cut state of the individual.

0:27:42.8 It may be short or long, but it is total clear cut separation. You cannot bring in the bardo state while you are in life. A bardo-like experience is possible, but that is a big difference.

Audience: Does the practice of lucid dreaming help to prepare?

Rimpoche: If you do lucid dreaming at the level where you are supposed to do it, sure. It will help you. Not only that, actually truly speaking, what does the spiritual practitioner, particularly the Vajrayana practitioner, aim at? We aim at not experiencing ordinary death and ordinary bardo. We try to substitute the ordinary death by the practice called dharmakaya and the bardo with sambogakaya. That is the aim. It is almost like learning how to cheat death and bardo. It is almost in that way, to use the normal American language. Using the proper word, we say “substitute”, but really you want to cheat death and instead of experiencing death you would like to experience something else. Actually what you need to do is cover the transition of the consciousness from the present body to another level. That is the thing. Instead of the normal procedure of death, we would like to do something else. That is actually the goal of spiritual practice, particularly Vajrayana practitioners.

0:30:42.0 So then you don’t have to experience ordinary death and you don’t have to experience the horrifying ordinary bardo, because you will be substituting it. If you can it will be great to aim for that. If you can’t, even if you can’t reach there you can reach to some different level. Even if you don’t get all up there, maybe you can get halfway through or midway through or quarter or a 10 per cent or 5 percent or 25 per cent or something like that and that much benefit is there. You may not be able to control it completely but may be able to substitute it.

0:31:31.4 Audience: Are there guides that help individuals through the bardo stage and also help to remember the practice leading up to death?

Rimpoche: Yes, practices leading up to death and even the bardo, that is possible, provided the individual mind is able to focus and settle just a minute before death itself. Death itself is such a subtle mind. It will never be able to be positive or negative. It has to be neutral. It is so subtle.

Guide or no guide, I don’t know whether there is a guide or not. That must be a metaphor. I don’t think there is really a person who comes and takes you by the hand and pulls you here and there or up or down. Maybe that is a metaphor. But totally you can’t be. If you are a Vajrayana practitioner you always pray:

Chi tse gön dang pa wo ma sog kyi

Me tog dug dang gyel tsen tog ne su

Röl mo sil nyen dra nyen sog chö ching

Ka la chö pa nä su tri par chog

At death, may the Lords, Heroes, and Dakini hosts

Offer me flowers, hold up umbrellas and banners

Play music of cymbals and sweet voices and so forth

And take me to the Heavenly Land of Dakinis

0:33:25.9 We pray that every day at the end of the sadhana. That is probably for when we are not able to cheat death and bardo completely, however there is some kind of in between path you find and get away and that is the level they are talking about. In those categories that might not be a full-fledged bardo but these things are possible. On the other hand we also say

0:34:19.3

lhen kye a wa lang ku tab dong gu ngö drub non gu tun drö gi chi dag

There are those messengers from the hell realms that will give you lots of torture, suffering and so forth and what can help at that time

That is all there as well. So the individual does experience those things. Whether there is actually a being that comes or not, this may be a metaphor.

0:34:51.7 Audience: Does that help also people who are not Vajrayana practitioners to cheat death?

Rimpoche: I don’t think so, I really don’t think so. That is one of the extraordinary qualities of the Vajrayana, to be able to transform the ordinary death, bardo and rebirth into extraordinary positions. Those people who say the sadhanas can tell you. That’s why they have agreed to do the practice. I don’t think the non-Vajrayana practitioners have that particular practice. That does not mean non-Vajrayana practitioners cannot become enlightened, they can, of course. But they may not have that particular method. That also, it is a Maha anuyoga tantra, the Highest Tantra practice. It is not even in the lower tantras.

0:36:01.3 Audience: Can we hope for a better, fuller experience if we use this life to purify and work on our negativities?

Rimpoche: Sure, very true. The terrifying bardo is a manifestation of negativities. If you purify negativity, then there is no basis to manifest terrifying problems and where would the problems come from? So that’s true.

0:36:42.6 Audience: I was wondering about the effect of an accidental violent death on the bardo?

Rimpoche: makes no difference. Accidental death is accidental death. Bardo begins after death. It is not starting during death.

Audience: But isn’t it necessary to have a calm mind during death?

Rimpoche: If you have an accidental death, the shock will take over. I am not sure whether you are calm or not. That’s difficult to know. If you can sure, it is better. To have a natural death is always better than anything else, whether it is accidental or kept alive by a machine and die later. The natural process is always better than a death prolonged by mechanical or electronic or chemical means, or accidental death.

0:38:09.0 I was remembering in India, there was a very famous Hindu sadhu called Ajra Vimuphalba??? a very famous Indian saint who decided to end his life by not eating food. All of India, the political-economic culture and religious leaders all went to him and appealed, but he won’t listen and finally ended his life by not eating food. Krishna Menon was there during the period in India and a friend of mine, Samdhong Rinpoche, who was here last Tibetan New Year’s day. He was a very close friend of Krishnamurti too. So he went to Krishnamurti and asked him, “What do you think about Ajra Vimubphalba ending his life?” Krishnamurti said, “I don’t know why Ajra wants to interfere with the natural process.”

Audience: would it better then to die awake than in your sleep? In the west they always say, “He or she was fortunate to die in their sleep…

0:40:01.5 Rimpoche: I don’t really know if they die in their sleep or not. By the time they die we think the person died in their sleep.

Audience: They might have been aware of dying?

Rimpoche: Sure, could be. Possible. We think they died in their sleep and we label and identify that in a certain way. But we don’t know what the individual really experienced. Did they really sleep or did they die? Most probably they died (laughs)

Audience: My mom has multiple sclerosis and is basically laying in bed. She seems to come in and out of consciousness. Is there anything we can do to help them?

0:41:24.4 Rimpoche: two years ago when I went to Kalimpong, a village in Northern India, Matthew was with me and we went to see an elderly Rimpoche called Tandu Rinpoche??? I visited him and talked to him and as matter of fact he recorded all the Chö tunes at that time. I thought it’s not that great. Anyway he went through them from the beginning to the end. He was quite old and he chanted them and we recorded that. We were talking something and suddenly Tandu Rinpoche turned to me and said, “Well, to tell you the truth, last year, when I was sitting here I had a visitor talking to me and suddenly I had a stroke. When I had those symptoms I knew I was getting a stroke. I kept on talking to him and not letting him know that I was having stroke symptoms. Now I think I am better. But at the time I thought, “If I come out of that stroke and can’t speak, it is not worth living. I should die.”

A year later, about this time last year, when Domo Geshe Rinpoche, who is in New York, came back, he told me, “Did you know, Tandu Rinpoche died.” I told him that was news to me. Domo Geshe Rinpoche told me, “I don’t know what happened. He had some kind of stroke and couldn’t speak for two days. They thought he was okay, but by the third morning he died. He was gone. They said it hit in the left brain or right brain or something and made some difference and one difference was that he could not speak. So the doctor told him that he was not going to die and was okay and only one portion of the brain was gone and he could not speak. So then next day he died.

0:44:26.3

So I began to realize what he meant with his statement when I was there 2 years ago. He said, “If you can’t speak, there is no point of living, it is better to die.” So he chose to go. If you are capable of doing that, that’s what you should do. Let me finish this thought. If you are capable of dying, you should do that.

There was another incident in Germany a year ago. There was a young incarnate lama in India, quite a naughty guy, who didn’t do any study and he started going out with a young German girl and finally that girl took him to Germany and they did a lot of drinking there all the time. Ever since he got to Germany he was totally drunk, nothing else. As result he damaged his liver completely. So he was in hospital. Dagyab Rinpoche, who you know, who came here three years ago, went to visit him in hospital and talked to him. He told him everything he had gone through and finally he said, “There is no use of living in this body”. They couldn’t repair the liver and transplants were not possible at that time. So he couldn’t function and there was just suffering and no point. So that’s true. I never thought about it. Anyway, Dagyab Rinpoche left and drove him, which took about two hours. By the time he reached home there was a telephone call, saying that he died.

0:46:34.2 So things like that, if you have the power in your hand, that’s what you do. If you don’t, then you don’t. You can’t do anything. You don’t have the power. You can practice and try to gain that power until you are perfect. No third person will transfer your soul, that soul at that level, because that person would have the non-virtue of ending a human life. It is not a natural death. So nobody will do it. But there is a practice called phowa, transference of consciousness or transport or ejection of consciousness.

Maybe it is like what you see in Star Trek! (laughs). By the way, I realize that since we changed the time, 7.30 is quite late, it is not like earlier. So we hope to be really on time. It’s my fault, I am always late. I hope to be on time from next Tuesday onwards. We will really start at 7.30 pm sharp and finish by 8.30 sharp. That makes it easier for people, particularly those who have small companies

Thank you 0:49:05.2 end of file