Archive Result

Soundfile 19940515GRJHNLVT 1

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location NL

Topic Informal Vajrayana

Transcriber Glenn Powers

Date 2021-03-8

[..] Basically, this is not formal teaching or anything. Just make it informal conversation. Basically, what happened is when I was talking with Marianne the other day, she said it’s nice to talk something about Vajrayana. So, I said yeah. I will do that. I will really do that. I’ll try to talk in Vajrayana because basic, the most important teachings on Vajrayana is actually from Tsongkhapa’s tradition is Lamrim Chenmo. Just like Lamrim, there’s Lamrim Chemo. So, Lamrim Chenmo is very complicated and very big. So, some kind of essence look like Lamrim Chenmo, something some kind of essence, look like Lamrim Chenmo, something small like to talk. I try to think this morning what to talk, I remember nothing. Totally nothing. That’s what it is.

I have one little notebook, sort of try to look in that ten, fifteen minutes, after breakfast and seeing what to talk. Virtually nothing. Basically, in Vajrayana, when you look at it, how Buddha had obtained enlightenment and how Buddha generated bodhimind like normal Tibetan buddhism talk about it. The first, generating bodhimind. Then, accumulating merit and finally obtaining enlightenment. When they talk about normally about that time. It’s not so much difference… In other words, Vajrayana has nothing special to explain how Buddha obtained enlightenment different from that of Mahayana path. [..] Another interesting thing is if you translate it is you have the Dutch version left. It may be useful later. [..] I don’t have much to say until I remember something. If I remember nothing… So, that means they dismiss you.

So, when you look at how Buddha had obtained, there is not so much difference. Specially, when you look at clear and archrya system, they don’t even say much difference of where and how you become enlightened. Then, some people on that ground, they will say chariya and arya has no… not mentioned how individual obtained enlightenment. Or, other in words clear and chariya system did not have the person becoming enlightenment, which is probably mistake, quite a lot of people say that too. It probably made mistake. Kira and archaya do have a way to obtain enlightenment, but it’s not separate then that of Mahayana sutra. So, even in kira and acharya, what they will say is the person, who on the last stage will leave that person’s body and go to Akanesha and then obtained enlightenment and then function, come back in same body, it functions. So, it is almost same as Mahayana. 0:06:58.0

Whether that itself is the yoga tantra’s way of doing it or not, I’m not sure. But, yoga tantra accept that as way the obtain enlightenment. By doing that, what gives you another message. The message here is without depending on Vajrayana, the Mahayana alone is capable of delivering enlightenment. Mahayana alone is capable of delivering enlightenment. So, normally people will tell you in the Vajrayana, they will insist everybody will have to be in Vajrayana path to obtain enlightenment. It also true. To the teaching traditions, initiations and all this, that statement made. However, when you go deep in that, Mahayana is capable of delivering Buddhahood. However, it may take a lot and lot of time.

Then, the most of the tantras, sort of going through over here. The most of the tantras are, of course we say, it is stated by Buddha and this and that. But, then there’s a lot of questions. Specially, the Heurka Tantra. The Heurka Tantra is some kind of, the period of the Heurka Tantra is even before Buddha Shakyamuni. So, does the Yamantaka Tantra and that also has the red Yamantaka, the fearful Yamantaka, and black Yamantaka. Also, like three Yamantakas. And there also seems to be period does not really correspond. So, this sort of thing, it is absolutely true. It is Buddhist tantra. It was stated by Buddha. May not be Buddha Shakyamuni. But, it might not stated by Buddha Shakyamuni, even then, it is Buddha’s teaching. There is no question. There’s commonly accepted. Not only commonly accepted, it functions in Buddhist principle. So, maybe the person who spoke this first tantra might not be Buddha Shakyamuni. They’re there when you study. So, it looks like funny that I”m talking before I talk even in general establishment of the Vajrayana path. I’m talking sort of controversial part from the beginnning. But, it’s mentioned here. So, that’s why. This is, what I’m trying to read here is the little notes that the great Umdo Lama called [Tibetan] 0:10:52.7 is not on the tantra studies. I was not planning on giving tantra talk here. But, just before I left Ann Arbor, I saw this book on the table. So, I just grabbed it and put it in bag. [..] A signal happened to bring that in. 0:11:16.4

Basically, all the teachings of the Buddha will definitely go, sort of you can sort of conclude Buddha’s teachings in two categories: sutra and tantra. There is no problem. It is totally accepted. You cannot find anything else beside that. Now, the question rises, how do you make distinction between sutra and tantra. That is very complicated. Lot of people will tell you lot of different things how the sutra and tantra been divided. But, normally we say it is result yana and this and that. So, what really happens? In principle, in practice itself, you meditate yourself in the form of Buddha, environment, body and the things round with you, you can use them as enlightened being. In the Vajrayana you meditate yourself in the form of deity. You make offerings to yourself and you also make offerings to other enlightened beings. Most of your activities are through a generating a light or nectar, light liquid, etc. From your bory, reaching to all beings, purifying them, just by the touch of the light, purifying them, becoming pure environment, pure beings, etc., etc. These things, it is almost you function as though you are already enlightened. That is mostly in Vajrayana. You don’t do that in Sutrayana. Sutrayana mostly you pray, you say prayers to achieve this and that. You pray to the enlightened beings to materialize this and that. Sort of, you make requests, you pray. In Vajrayana, you do that. In addition to that, you yourself in the form of yidam or things like that, generate. Even the beginning of the Lama Chopa, what did they say? [Tibetan] 0:14:33.5 [..] You become lama-yidam and generate light and things like that, right from the beginning you have that. Right? So, even in sutrayana you take refuge to Buddha and say Buddha’s mantra and then Buddha dissolves to yourself. And then, finally, you beceome a buddha and you generate light and all this. And that’s probably not in the pure sutrayana. It is Vajrayana mixed. So, in short, what happens is in Vajrayana you function like fully enlightened beings from the beginning, whether the text says or the practice describe that or not, that is where the difference comes in. In the West nowadays al ot people try to use this thing here, that thing there and then try to mix them together, which is one of the biggest objections in the Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism. Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism is very strict. For example, Yamantaka’s special qualities, special meditations, you cannot pick them up and put them on Heurka. You can’t do that. But, in the West, we have tendency to pick up everything and put everything. So, it becomes hodge podge soup, which is very strongly restricted in the tradition. So therefore, it will say whether you have this in that practice or you don’t have in that practice. That way, it will give the special quality of each practice. Like Vajrayana here, you say you have those, using a result, fully enlightened being, functioning. You don’t have that in Sutrayana. That’s what it is. But, people, practitioners they pick up from the Vajrayana without knowing, because they head half way through. So, they just picked it up and put it here, put it there. So, it looks nice and attractive and beautiful. But, in actually you do disservice. Disservice of mixing them up, which is not right. Even the Vajrayana deities are themselves the practices. You cannot mix them up. So therefore, forget about it, taking Vajrayana path and putting in Sutrayana. It is only qualified, authorized persons may do it. But, not for everybody. So, that’s why they say this practice has this thing or doesn’t have that thing. That’s how the distinction is made. 0:17:34.3

[Tibetan] One the special qualities in Vajrayana and when you visualizing in the form of yidam, etc. It materialize. It becomes that way. It materialize that way, which is Vajrayana’s special quality. It is in Vajrayana’s special quality when you meditate yourself in the form of deity. It becomes deity. That becomes cause of becoming deity. All the energies directed towards that. That cause is capable of delivering the result. That is Vajrayana special quality. The difference is, if you keep on thinking you Napoleon or Julious Ceasar or Henry the 8th or something, if you keep on thinking that and meditating that, it’s not going to become that. You not going to become neither the Napoleon nor you going to become Henry the 8th. That’s the big differenece. Even you keep on thinking, meditating you tree or cloud or something. You’re not going to become tree, you’re not going to become cloud. But, if you keep on thinking I am Heurka, I am Yamantaka, I am Vajrayogini and visualize that way. That is capable of delivering goods and you will be becoming. That is big difference. Don’t ask me why, because I don’t know. It is Vajrayana’s special quality. [Tibetan] 0:19:53.5 So, it is extraordinary quality of Vajrayana if you meditate in form of yidam, which is fully enlightened beings. Enlightened beings have provided that body, environment, and that function as capable picking up people and making them work, making them observing in that. So, that is something which you can do and can become. [Tibetan] 0:20:37.0

Then, there’s also like question rises, don’t you have anything meditating and becoming in the Sutrayana and this and that. That’s different issue. So, one of the Vajrayana thing is visualization. Number of people also thinks if you visualize I’m Yamantaka or something, I’m cheating myself. I’m not Yamantaka. Some people think it’s almost like hypnotizing myself. They’re all not true. Because of this reason. [Tibetan] 0:21:20.1 So, when you are meditating in the physical appearance of certain yidams, you will become that way. That is extra ordinary quality. It’s different than that of meditating yourself as Napoleon or something.

Audience: How can you say that you meditate on a yidam that’s more likely to become that than become something else.

Rimpoche: One, you not becoming Napoleon, because Napoleon is history. Two, you will not become tree. The tree is no something of… you know, the person does not take birth as a tree. And, over here the yidams, yes, you do become yidam because you work for it. That is something which obtainable. The causes of the creating that appearance and that environment is meditation itself become in that way. In Vajrayana, one thing you have to carry on in addition to direct line just like sutra, in addition to that, you really have to carry on lot of the statements made by the enlightened beings. There’s a lot of extraordinary qualities which somehow become beyond out comprehension, which also has to carry quite a number of times. 0:23:16.6

Auidence: When we say we cannot become a tree and this and that, then a yidam must be of a different… thre must be difference, if we can become a yidam. So, then what is a yidam? It must be of a different…

Rimpoche: Yes, yes, yes… It is different. You know why? It was Napoleon. That’s one person. Let’s forget about past tense. Even future. If there is going to be another Napoleon and that’s one person. Right? It’s one person, identify as one person. Yidam is not one person. It is like enlightened being, like great ocean, great beings like Dharmakaya. So, it is huge sea of being which we have individuals it is entity. However, there are million difference of that yidam functioning. That’s the difference. Like buddha. Buddha Shakyamuni becomes single individual, but buddha is not single individual. Make sense?

Audience: [..] Napoleon, you want to become like him…

Rimpoche: Like him and becoming him is two different things. Like him, yes.

Audience: ...integrate his qualities…

Rimpoche: Yeah, that’s different than becoming him. In other words, even you say you integrating Napoleon quality, probably you looking for different things then here. The quality of the Napoleon if you integrate probably Napoleon’s way of calculating how to fight a war, except Waterlooo, where he was defeated. Am I right? Except at Waterloo or something. In general his planning, functioning great quality. That quality, you can integrate it. But, that does not mean you have become Napoleon. Or, you integrate Napoleon being with you. But, in the case of yidams, it’s different. In the case of yidams, all the qualities of all the personalities and all of them are integrated and that individual can become that yidam and that buddha. Here, you cannot become Napoleon. You can integrate certain qualities of Napoleon. Certain qualities you not want to integrate, even the Waterloo planning you don’t want to integrated. Right? [..] Let Marianne Suters say something.

Audience: Isn’t the difference of the compassion and the emptiness because if I start meditating on Yamantaka, like I would meditate getting the qualities of Napoleon, then I would also get a one point Yamantaka which is not a buddha.

Rimpoche: How can you say that?

Audience: Yamantaka, yidam, buddha, it should be something that has to do with compassion, isn’t it? Otherwise, it will not be a buddha. It will be a ghost or something like that.

Rimpoche: I don’t get you.

Audience: If I want to have the… to meditate on the power of Napoleon, become Napoleon like, because of putting my mind on it. On meditating on it. If I put my mind in the same way, like wanting to have that power of Napoleon put it in the same way, Yamantaka, then it won’t be a buddha Yamantaka. If I do not integrate of compassion and out of emptiness. 0:27:40.7

Rimpoche: Oh no, now I get you. Yeah, you can become Yamantaka like ghost. There is stories like that, too. But, the point here is... what we are talking about it. What we are talking here is meditating yourself in the physical form of Yamantaka will be the cause of becoming Yamantaka. Meditating yourself in the physical form of Napoleon is not going to be the cause of becoming Napoleon. I think we have to clarify a little more in that way.

Audience: [..] To become Napoleon would mean that I become a different entity. So, that does not work. But, becoming the yidam means integrating certain qualities within my own entity.

Rimpoche: Why you use the would “certain?”

Audience: The idea of Yamantaka is not that I become blue guy. But…

Rimpoche: You could become blue guy… Especially for the Germans, it’s easy to get horns.

Audience:The definite meaning of Yamantaka is this bliss-void combination of inseparability. So, into that state, it’s more like becoming dharmakaya or so…

Rimpoche: Yeah, you have to make the Yamantaka as buddha. The existence, functioning, and appearance of the Yamantaka is that of equal to Buddha. So, when the person obtain the Buddha Yamantaka state, or any buddha state, you do obtain that state. So, you do obtain that physical appearance. You do obtain that speech power. You do obtain that mind. Actually, have you become Yamantaka? Yes, you did become Yamantaka. You do become Yamantaka. You will become Yamantaka. Yamantaka, you cannot look as one individual person. It’s simple, you become a buddha, you can accept that. Likewise, you become Yamantaka, you’ll accept. Whether every Yamantaka has to be running around with horns and blue may or may not, doesn’t matter. It depends on individual. You do have that. You do have that quality. You do have process on this. 0:30:43.7

Audience: When you say you become the form of Yamantaka…

Rimopche: You have to remember what are the two horns. The two horns are the purity of the two truth. Right? 37… The legs and hands, plus, body, mind and speech. Right? 34… [..] 37… Each expresses quality. But, what do you have? The purity of those. Pure part of 37 what virtues or whatever they call it. [..] 37 factors of enlightenment. Thank you. 37 factors of enlightenment. So, you do have those. Whether you use them as hands or the arms or whether you use them as something else, footballs and basketballs or whatever you use it, you have them. So, the appearance of the Yamantaka as Yamantaka, you have them. Do you have to go with two horns, running around? You don’t. But, do you have them? Yes, you do. That’s how it works. Entity as such. Not the quality as alone. But, entity as such. That is difference between Gastup Je and Kerbub Je. Gastup Je accepts all become one entity and joins in together like big sea and drop of water in it. But, Kerbub Je objects that, saying that yes, it’s true, I don’t want to refute Gastup Je. However, there is separate identity of individual. I do not know how you identify that. So, that’s really what it is. So, it’s difference. It works difference, affects difference, get different result. So, that’s why they say by meditating in the physical form of yidam, you become a yidam, that is the quality of Vajrayana. 0:33:58.0

Audience: So, it’s using the tone of Yamantaka or any other deity just a tool to get to the state where you have these qualities and then whether you keep this form or not.

Rimpoche: It’s your choice. Buddha appears as Yamantaka. When he manifested, he choose to take take physical form and showed people to do. When he goes as peaceful buddha, he goes peaceful buddha. When he takes the physical form of Tara, let’s say, then he takes that way. They’re all, you have the quality, you have that capability, you have that possibility. You are the person. That’s there. That is the difference. [..] That depends, whatever the sadhana you are following, that is giving you because you actually following sort of link, connection with this particular yidam. So, you’re following that. When you following that and that is become the path and tool to you. Because, that is the Nirmanakaya of that. So, you meditate through that. It’s depends sdahana tradation what you follow.

Audience: When you do two different practices, it can be confusing.

Rimpoche: No. No. No. No. The reason is the essence of the practice what is geared to. That helps that individual to develop that quality first. Like Yamantaka, if you practicing, Yamantaka, Guhysamaja, etc. It was geared to develop illusion body. So, that’s another thing you have to remember that illusion body. The illusion body is illusion body. So, that will have strange physical appearance as well. So like Yamantaka, etc. geared toward illusion body. Heurka and Vajrayogini, etc. geared towards clear light. So, what happens is instead of getting confusing, it helps to bring what is there main thing. If you have two good cook, chief, [..] French and Chinese, you don’t get confused. You can get the best cuisines of the east and west. I just thought, maybe not a good answer. Maybe it is funny. [..] 0:36:55.0

Audience: The vision of Yamantaka, how did a person become that? [..] That is a fixed form, isn’t it?

Rimpoche: No, even in Yamataka, you’ll 13 deity and solitary look the same thing, but 49 deity Yamantaka and Yellow Yamantaka look different.

Audience: People who use the sadahana and have to do a certain yidam or to have practice yidam, you always have to see that special form of that special yidam. Isn’t it?

Rimpoche: Why you have to? I don’t get the idea of “have to.”

Audience: You mentioned several forms of Yamantaka.

Rimpoche: Yeah. When you do the sadhana of particular one, yes you do have to do that.

Audience: The first form, how is that seen?

Rimpoche: What do you mean, “first form?”

Audience: The physical form.

Rimpoche: I don’t get the idea of “first.”

Audience: When did it start?

Rimopche: Oh, you mean when the tantra is taught. How that happened. I was not there. I’m sure the tantra describes that. Right? Tantra describes that. So, tantra describes that. Therefore, it appears that way. You know, this tantra functioning the tantra’s totally, very strange way, rather different way. What happening is while Buddha is appearing and giving tantra of this and that, at the same time, simultaneously, Buddha was appearing there and giving this and that tantra. So, I don’t think it’s very much restricted. But, in sadhana itself, it is restricted. When it appears, I don’t think it’s that much restricted. Even in our own sadhana, we do have this, instantaneously arise with one face, two hands. The later one, you go and had big one, multiple face and multiple hands. Even within the one sadhana, we do today. So, in one way, it’s restricted, in another way it is movable. I really don’t know how it appeared first. That’s why I said I was not there. Even I was there, I don’t remember. I don’t recall. That is Reagan’s way of putting it. [..]

Audience: A question in connection with form. For instance, Heurka. You visualize in the full form, with four face and so on. When you visualize, when you begin to use it as a tool, do you visualize on the body as such, this arm has this implement etc...

Rimpoche: Yeah

Audience: Do you always, simultaneously have to think this implement means that and that quality I have integrated now. Or, just concentrate on the…

Rimpoche: Two things, to develop clarity and to develop pride, is the two main things. At the beginning level, you can’t even think. Forget about hand implements, you can’t even think four face. It is extremely difficult to think back face, particularly. So, gradually, your mind get trained. So, at this moment, what you really do, is you just do “Ah, I am Heurka with four face and twelve arms” and so and forth, just say it. That I am. So, roughly we get some kind of lump, picture without specifying what hand, what face, how it look, what implement. Just simply going on that. When you keep on doing that, you keep on focusing more and more and more, probably you get the first face. The first face sort of semi-wrathful, blue, big, [..] macho type of blue face, little wrathful, not fearful like Yamantaka. But, semi-diginified sort of that sort of face you get. Gradually, you add up one or two more. So, little more, similar to that. Color different. So, what you do is without loosing the earlier, you add the second one. So, that way, ultimately, when you develop the clarity, the clarity, that clarity will really carry. That clarity will really carry. All the hand implements, hands, legs and face are absolutely clear state. That is the beginning of even development of the development stage. So, the clarity and pride. Both has to be combined together. So, the answer to your question, hopefully, is both, the clarity as well as the pride. [..] 0:44:02.1

So, I am Heurka. What does Heurka mean? Why I have this? Why I have skull cup, why I have elephant skin, blah, blah, blah. All this type of thing are all combined together will be the combination of clarity and pride which will be the beginning, not really the beginning, but sort of more stable part of development stage. It is necessary, basically, even development stage they say you have to have a deity which your focus is also you have to have more than five deities, they say that. Then you rest it. Anyway. So, you have to have more than five deities in that. So, your focus is not only on one person, but there five of them more. Minimum of five. 0:45:08.7

[break in audio]

Solitary Hero Yamantaka, but that’s only one.

Audience: If you identify with Heurka and consort…

Rimpoche: You also have to identify with the five dakinis.

Audience: Then, do you have the feeling that those are some aspects of you as one entity…

Rimpoche: That’s you. That’s you. That’s you. I’m the dakini, I’m the lama, I’m vajrapani and khandrohema at the back. I am khandrohema, I am the dakini, I’m the lama, I’m the vajrapani, and I am the Heurka, I am the Vajrayogini. I don’t think you have to make certain aspects of me is this. That will be problem. That’s me. This is me. This is me. This is me. This is me. I am five, I am six. Actually, I am five because my consort and me is one person. It’s more romantic.

Audience: Our common idea of identity…

Rimpoche: That’s the difference. You have a problem with that.

Audience: Yeah.

Rimpoche: That you pick up later. You cannot think two. You accept as one.

Audience: No, I have another picture in my head. It’s like getting introduced to a family. [..] There is the father, mother, the kids. [..] Now, I am in this circle and I have the possibility to deal with their capacity. Because, they let me in. [..] At first, I get to know their physical apperance that I know, dark hair [..] and later I find the more subtle parts of their being and later I find their different characters and diffrerent capabilities…

Rimpoche: That’s right. Then, later you learn they are all me.

Audience: They are all aspects of me.

Rimpoche: No aspects of me. That’s me. That’s what it is. This is, again, you are touching the extra ordinary part of the Vajrayana, when you experience, you will know it. Because, in our rational mind, that’s me is a little difficult. That is the first reaction, from father and mother, four children. Four girl sisters. That is great impression. Yeah, really. That’s how the Western mind, not only Western, I think everybody’s mind will proceed in that way. Yeah, you can present Mahayana, the family, the four kids, the is getting more serious. 0:48:46.9

Audience: Normally, having the focus on one…

Rimpoche: For what?

Audience: [..] I think that easily goes into that, primarily maybe identifies, let’s say [..] additional aspects…

Rimpoche: This is gradual process we pick up, right? The first is extremely difficult, if you’re the male, to become the female. And, if you’re the female to become the male is extremely difficult. But, then you go trhough the union. You kknow? Particuraly when you talk about this mantra and we talk about this mantra is also not facing each other, but in hugging position. The mantras are also union and joining. So, what do you visualize? Suddenly, you loose the skin in bewteen, protecting. Right? Identification of separation and skin, you loose that. When you loose that skin, both the front of the female and the front of the male, when you loose the skin what happens is sort of goes and joins. So, what happened is it sort of goes and joins. So, what happens is the heart chakra joins in and the third chakra joins in, then half circle joins in. Then, specially, the secret chakra joins in. It’s almost like becoming one. About that time, the it’s becoming problem and try to think to separate. Right? Becuase there’ no distinct there. So, that becomes difficult. Right? When you really building is the unionness in that. Separations become difficult. When you get used to it, on that and becoming oneness. This is because our ordinary, rational mind when lays the division and it becoming oneness type of thing. That’s what’s happening. Right? Yet, you leaving the rational mind out and pick up the wisdom mind. So, what’s happening is the separation is there. Likewise, it can function with all five of them. Or, four of them. I think it’s a matter of practice and nature of picking it up. So, I don’t think there is a problem at all. It is difficult to conceptualize. I don’t think it is a problem. I don’t think anything is wrong with that. 0:51:38.3

Audience: Just the wisdom of interdependent existence and so on…

Rimpoche: I beg your pardon, where does the interdependent come from?

Audience: The wisdom part of it, the emptiness part of it. I don’t know what emptiness is. But, does it help in getting the feeling on oneness?

Rimpoche: Sure. It is the two. Otherwise, you’re not going to get it. Because, the dualistic ideas and perceptions are only be taken away by the wisdom. So, that wisdom here is the understanding of nature of reality, whether you call it emptiness or not. Emptiness is become Buddhist terminology. Terminolofy, whether Buddhist or not. It is a concept. When your perceiving it becomes conceptualization of concept. [..]

Audience: You say that in reality there is one buddha who manifests in different forms. Is that correct?

Rimpoche: Yeah…

Audience: That’s about the same as in Christianity, they say there is only one God.

Rimpoche: I think it is very similar. I don’t think anything wrong with that.

Audience: Wouldn’t it be easy then, to also be only one manifestation of that one buddha…

Rimpoche: It will be easier for some people and it will be not easier for some people. There are a number of different people who will be… who will like certain aspects and will feel connected. Number of people who do not like certain aspects and don’t feel connected. Even you look in the concept of god. It’s only one aspect. There’s certain number of people who don’t like God or don’t like to hear about God. For them, there’s no alternative. 0:54:15.3

Audience: The other day, several times, I stepped into conversation…

Rimpoche: With whom?

Audience: With several people. We talked about [..] the idea of [..] transforming attachment, it’s not accepted by [..]

Rimpoche: It’s here.

Audience: How to… that is bad picture. Could you say more about it?

Rimpoche: Let me read here. What did they say here? It’s mentioned here somewhere. Here, you go down a little bit to reach to that level. So that otherwise, I will loose total deity what I’m talking. You have good conversation. But, I loose total basis. So much detail, you may not need it. Basically, in the Mahayana, if you sort of, what we know about Buddhism. Basically in Sutrayana, if you divided the schools or thoughts you do have four divisions. Right? You know about that. I’m sure Klaus knows. Basically, there are like four divisions. Right? What are they? [..] Two Hinayana schools and two Mahayana schools. [..] So, we call it [Tibetan] 0:56:35.0. Basically, two sort of point on the Hinayana schools and two Mahayana level schools. Most of the abidharma kleshas are mostly the important points of the chitimara, which is [..] the basis of the two schools. Two higher schools, one is called mind only school and the other is Madyamika, the center path. The middle path or the central path, which Tibetans divide into two, I don’t think in traditional Indian they don’t divide into two. The division of this Madyamika path is the Tibetan tradtion, not Indian tradition. Anyway, that is how the school wise if you divide by four. This is necessary to study tantra. That’s why which I mentioned that. And then, if you divide by the vehicle point of view, it’s divided into three. That’s why normally three yanas. Right? Three yanas. How do you divide three yanas? [..] This is theoretical point of dividing three yanas is sarvakyana, practicayana, and Mahayana. Sarvaka, the word Sharvaka is.. The meaning of Sarvaka will come down to something like third which means we hear it and we deliver the message. Like postman. Postman doesn’t hear it, but delivers. So, what they do is when Buddha talk about Mahayana, they say we’re not interested. But, since it’s Buddha’s teaching, we like to attend and we convey message. So, you hear it here and you pass on the message, you don’t practice. [Tibetan] 0:59:50.8 That’s enough. The other one is called self liberation, which sort of comes in between the time when Buddha’s not there. The solitary guy, person, who be sitting solitarily somewhere and finding path by himself or herself, obtaining liberation by him or herself, without depending on any information, teaching, guidance, which has lot of questions. So that is basically what it is. Mahayana is divided into two. The Mahayana sutra and Mahayana tantra. Mahayana sutra is the bodhisattvas path without influence of tantra which also for the activity point of view, it is divided two categories, six paramitas to develop oneself and four other paramitas to help using as method to help other beings. All of them, all of them, what are they work? How they work? What they work? It fundamental basis of basic functioning of Mahayana, Hinayana, all of those are the base… there’s always base, path and result. Base, path and result. Base is what we are. Path is what we do. Result is what we get it. The base what we are is two truth. The, always, base is two truth. Path is accumulation of merit. It is the relative merit and absolute merit. Two of them. Result is you get dharmakaya and rupakaya. That is the nontantric talk. The base is two truth. Path is accumulation of merit, absolute and relative merit. What do you do? You accumulate merit. That’s why in Mahayana sutra people will only talk contemplating, contemplating, contemplating, and influence of Mahayana sutra, Mahayana comes in, purifying blah, blah, blah business is very strongly coming from that side. And so, that’s what it is. You have to purify and accumulation of merit. Because, in the Mahayana, or the Hinayana, the path is only two, accumulation of merit, which is the relative merit and absolute merit. That is the path. There is no other path. So, all this principles of work hard and get your result and so and forth and all this are coming from there. Base is two truth, relative and absolute truth. So, as result, you also get two state, rupakaya state and dhramakaya state. That mental state of enlightenment and physical state of enlightenment. Rupakaya is Sanskrit word. Physical aspects of enlightenment and mental aspects of enlightenment. Then, the duration, how long will take? Actually, it’s three countless eons or something. So, now the difference in Vajrayana. What is the Vajrayana really do? [Tibetan] 1:04:17.5 So, in Vajrayana, the difference here, instead of saying accumulation of merit and blah, blah, blah business in there only. So, what the focus on is all appearance are look as pure appearance. Whether the environment is pure and inhabitants as pure beings. Or, almost looking them as enlightened beings. Like Nyma tradition and Dzongchen, they will also emphasize so much all males are Avalokeshvara and all females are the Tara and blah blah blah. So, all this type of thing normally you get is because of this. [Tibetan] 1:05:23.6 All appearance you are perceiving as pure. That’s why the object what you have is far bigger than Mahayana sutras. By keeping the commitment and you get blessings much quicker, much better, much faster and more powerful. That’s why the help is bigger in Mahayana. So, what you aiming, looking at, is bigger. The help is bigger. The activity is bigger. Activity is bigger because you started directly begin to help sentient beings, almost functioning as enlightened state, enlightened level. At least you pretend to be functioning in that level. So, the activity is bigger. 1:06:37.0

So, these are like three qualities here. The difference from the basic Hinayana and Mahayana. I should say basic sutra and tantra. Over here, you do have special yidam, special god for yourself. The would lha they use in Tibet. Somehow, in English translators they refuse to translate as god. But, the original translations, if you look them, they translate as god. So, you do have special lha. With the activity of that special lha, you can visualize yourself in that form. You can praise yourself. You can make offerings to yourself. Where and how you accumulate merit is huge difference. I mean extremely different. Time wise, effect wise, every angle that you look is huge difference. I was noticing maybe it’s during the Winter Retreat, when we’re just doing the teaching on Vajrayogini, I think, the seventh yoga, yoga of purification. The yoga of purification, if you really do it nicely, it sort of take you what, two or three minutes and the effect of that in the sutra, when you compare it, in the sutrayana it is seven eons. So, here you may take seven minutes to do it and there is seven eons. That’s why I said huge difference of time and effect. And then, of course, in Vajrayana, you do have meditation of protection, protection realms, etc. Protection realms and returning of obstacles. I’m sure, when we talk the last time, when you talk, the story of Ralazawa and Geshe Chenowa. If you just look at this and just straight away you look at it, Ralazawa is very proud and blah blah blah and Geshe Chenowa, people feel sympathetic towards Gehse Chenowa. But, the point really is, what they trying to show, I don’t think Ralazawa kill Chenowa or Chenowa dies by Ralazawa’s magic power. The dharma, what they have shown to us, is try t tell the difference between the Vajrayana and Sutrayana alone power. Actually, those Kadampa geshes totally pretend to be sutra alone. But, when they die, you will see the bells and vajras and things like that. They bring a great Vajrayana practioners. However, the appearance, what they have shown, is only pure Mahayana sutra alone. The pure in the sense not a superior pure. But, no tantra was ever used it, sutra alone. They have shown it. So, when they’re showing that appearance, Ralazawa going running around here and doing funny things. So, the Ralazawa’s power destroys Gehse Chenowa, which really actually showing the Vajrayana edge over the sutra alone practice. That’s why this meditation realm. Becuase, remember Gehse Chenowa and all the Kadampa geshes get together, they can only say Heart Sutra and chant Heart Sutra and say the Heart Sutra mantra and the cannon of the Buddha or the collected works of the Buddha brought them in, they try slip in between and sort of protections are limited to those. But, in Vajrayana, it goes beyond that. 1:11:22.6

Audience: Do you mean the protection in the Vajrayana is much more greater?

Rimpoche: Oh, yeah. In sutrayana, they will not tell you what to do. There’s no protection realm. There’s no meditation. There’s nothing. In Vjrayana, you have so many of those. No matter how many you have, but when your karma comes on, then that’s it. When Buddha get headache and backache. So, in another way, but in one way, you have those.

So then, of course, Vajrayana is called Vajrayana. Why it’s Vajrayana? Why it’s called Vajra? Vajra means indestructible, which means inseparable. You can’t separate. What you cannot separate is the method and wisdom. Vajrayana method and wisdom not separable. In sutrayana, it’s separable. You accumulate merit and you meditate wisdom. Do all this in different way. In Vajrayana, it’s inseparable. That’s why it’s called inseparable yana. So, what you don’t separate is method and wisdom here. It’s also called secret yana. Why it’s called secret yana, because you practice it quietly. You don’t blow horns outside and do it. If you do so, it doesn’t work. So, that’s why it’s called secret yana. 1:13:17.1

It’s also called result yana. Why is called result yana? Because, even from the beginning, you function as though you are at the result level. You don’t act like beginner. You act like master. Complete, you know what you are doing and you functioning at the result level. That’s why it’s also called result yana.

Audience: If you are practicing and you are not quite where at [..] and wisdom, then you are not practicing Vajrayana, you are in Sutrayana. Is that…

Rimpoche: No, [..] one thing is we do have lot of guide. Like if you give you Vajrayana practice, it’s already formalized. It already made. The steps been already worked out. So, you sort of just matter of go and read and think about it in those lines. It’s already organized. When it’s already organized and there’s no way you can escape that. It is organization itself will push you through that. Way and how they organized, the words that you read and you say, it is already formulated in it.

Audience: You can’t go wrong.

Rimpoche: You can’t go wrong, that’s the idea. You can’t go wrong, so you don’t go single out. So, you can’t go wrong. That’s why they already worked out.

Audience: The question, if you get in contact with Vajrayana or with Sutrayana, it’s a question of luck?

Rimpoche: Yes, we did mention the other day, one has to be very fortunate, has to be extremely lucky. More lucky that Rockefellers.

Audience: It seems to me a little bit like calculated [..] it’s a great fact and people who don’t hear about it, they can give much effort but reach [..]

Rimpoche: That’s right. It is.. I don’t know whether it is calculated or not. But, they maintain this as secret. So, we don’t want to talk a lot. People who are fortunate enough, they will come to the contact. Those who does not have luck, they don’t get in. It’s not a cult society. But, it is like that. I do not know whether you call that calculated or not.

So, such a result yana or the Vajrayana, within that, those certain tantras who are emphasized more external activity over the internal meditative activity is called Kirya tantra. The external and internal equally considered equally important, Charya you call. Right? [..] I have a problem following the Sanskrit words. We call it Chagu. Chagu means cha means activity cha means chawa activity. So, activities, outer activities, are considered more important than inner activity. This are called the Charya, Chagu. So, in almost all this Chagu deities it is decome extremely necessary that you have to wash, you have to, got to be vegetarian, got to be not eating garlics, got be this, got to be that. All sort of external activities are so much emphasized. So much so more than even internal meditative state. That category of them, all compartmentalized and put them together. It’s called Chagu. [..] Kiya, okay. Chgu activity. 1:19:12.6

So then, the second one is yes, the external activities also very important, so does the internal activities also important. Sort of almost balanced them together, Both external and internal things balanced together. All of them, that type of tantra which balances all of them together, was put in one box. And that box called Chudo. The second one, Charya. I could not figure out that always. That Chudo. [..]

Audience: [..]

Rimpoche: In the third one…

Audience: What do you mean by internal activities?

Rimpoche: Meditation, etc.

Then, the third one, is the internal yoga considered more external yoga, external activity. First one, external important. Second one, balanced. Third one, is considered internal more important. Than the external one. It’s called yoga tantra. Because the internal yoga is considered more important. So, it’s considered yoga tantra.

Then, the fourth one, there is no yoga better than that, it is called fourth one. So, it is maha anu yoga tantra or highest tantra and all this sort of thing. Then, certain traditions, like they will way say there’s above that, there anu and ati and anu yoga namochimba, ati yoga and all this sort of ati anu, all this they will say. But, Tsongkhapa did not accept those. Tsongkhapa says highest yoga is highest yoga and therefore, there is no other activity. So, the teachings on the Dzongchen, etc, the Dzongchen activities and the way Dzongchen does and all this are included in the… Tsongkhapa puts them in the completion stage. Tsongkhapa put them in completion stage. That’s how it works. Even you look in the Dzongchen and all this, what they do is they will say well, you don’t have to do anything, you just do this and that. Then, you gradually have to go back to the Lamrim and comes up. So, where and how they introduce. So, I’m sure there’s quite a number of Western people have studied Dzongchen and now they know. So, that is how it functions. So, Tsongkhapa does not want to make separate division and so he will cut it out for divisions here. Highest tantra is highest tantra. 1:22:54.4

So, what does this tantra really does? What does that mean? Let’s say, the example what they give is very interesting. [Tibetan] 1:23:38.9 So, where, how they divided just told you internal activity and external activity and all this. But, if you pinpoint that down, how does the division make it? What do they do? So, this some kind of practice with the attachment will be taken as path. If so, how it works. That’s the question. In the division of, let’s say, the attachment, rather not attachment itself, but the joy. The joy that one develops. Using the joy as method. The joy, the pleasure, as method. And then, intensify it. The first one will only have, let’s say, if it’s sexual activity, like say sexual examples we use as an example here to show. In ordinary sexual activities, so let’s talk about the union of partnership. The partners looking at each other, when you see each other, when you look at each other and you like it, you develop certain joys. Right? That we all know. That sort of label has been used at the first tantra.

The second tantra goes one more step, let’s not sit there and look at each other, let’s touch it. So, you start touching it. Touching it, it’s more than that. So, there’s one gap in between. [..] Let me give some indications, let me smile it. Sort of getting little more intensified then just staring at each other. So, the label expressing point of smiling or sort of indication or signaling, which you communicated the joy which you experience is more than just staring at each other. Then, as well, let’s not sit there smiling at each other, let’s touch it. Let’s start touching it. Let’s touch it. Maybe you limit it there. Just touch it and then limits there. That is even more intensified than the smiling at each other. A little more than that.

So, the maha anu yoga tantra is not satisfied with touching alone, let’s really go into it. Go into it and see how you feel about it. So, that is how they intensify this, using the sexual activity as an example. Using the joy and label you get to use, the tantras are divided in that way. Basically. It is very conservative way of expressing. But, that’s what the book describes. I like to stick to that.

Audience: In the example of sexual pleasure, it’s in all other fields of sharing pleasure…

Rimpoche: Yes, sexual used as example.

Audience: In the yoga tantra you use it a little bit, in the high tantras you go more into it.

Rimpoche: That’s right, even bodhisattvas level, too. But, it is strictly restricted is the Theravandan self liberation vows. So, that’s why they don’t go. That’s why the difference between the Tibetan monks and Theravadan monks, the Tibetan monks, they sort of… they sit up there and then smile and laugh and come down and talk and do all sorts of things. The Theravanda monks sit like this. You know. They won’t move. Just strict like that. And, even they walk one walk behind like this. The Tibetans have problem of keeping them together, everybody is going here and there. So, I think it is the…

[end of audio]