Archive Result

Soundfile 19950400GR/19950402GRCOLivDie1_01.mp3 (1/2)

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location New York 1995

Topic Tibetan Living and Dying

Transcriber David Klaviter

Date 09/13/21 Revised

Recorded live at the Art of Dying: Spiritual and Scientific Approaches to Living and Dying. Held March 31st through April 2nd 1995, in New York City. Tape number ADE7, The Tibetan Buddhist Approach to Living and Dying with Gelek Rimpoche.

Audience: [Applause]

GR: Good morning, I should say. And I feel a little funny here today. Sort of, I'm not Sogyal Rimpoche, you have to know that. And I just, I was in the morning when Bob Therman was talking. And he said I'm not Sogyal Rimpoche but the workshop will be done by Gelek Rimpoche and Rimpoche family. So, right? You people where there. So, maybe it's a Rimpoche family. So, I'm here to work, do the work of understudy of Sogyal Rimpoche. Before I go ahead, I'm looking for either Sandara or Kristen or one of Sogyal students here. I would like you to come up and say a few words before I go ahead. Ok? Thank you. She is Sogyal Rimpoches, work she does here in United States. American Coordinator. Ok, here you go.

Coordinator: Ok, we're connected. It's all interconnected. It's one of the basic buddhist principles of being interconnected here. Anyhow, unfortunately, Rimpoche is a little bit ill. It's not anything too serious. But he makes an annual trip to India this time of the year, every year. And, unfortunately, got a really bad Asian flu. And then that led to, he has kind of a sensitive back, and then his back went-out. So it was really impossible for him to travel. But he sends his love to everyone. And he really is sorry that he is not here. He really very much wanted to be here. And feels very, very badly that he is not here. But at the moment he's been in Sikhim and, believe it or not, with his mother and father. Even Lama's have mothers and fathers. And actually his parents are really great practitioners, extraordinary practitioners. And he is with the wife of his master. Who's name is Khanjo Serin Chudren. And they are all practicing together at the tomb of his master. So, that is what Rimpoche does every year, this time of the year.

00:03:00

And, again, I'm really sorry that he is not here. But, I'm soo delighted that y'all get to meet Gelek Rimpoche. Who has, Sogyal Rimpoche always talks about with soo much respect as really, really, an extraordinary and fantastic teacher. So, you're really lucky.

GR: Thank you soo much. Ok, so what I would like to do, is, actually, I'm sure quite many of you have attended yesterday’s workshop, right? And those, is it majority attended yesterday, or? No. Ok, that changes, slightly. Yesterday I talked about, basically, about the death and it is situation. And what death really is. And when people die and how you get the feelings. So, this is what I talked yesterday. The feelings of different stages of dying. Eight different level of dying. And that's what I talked. And I also begin yesterday with a dialog between the young, youthful, whatever. And the older guy, old, maybe nineties. And conversation between them I begin yesterday, from there. What I thought I would share the other half of the conversation. Which I didn’t touch yesterday. And then go on to the, the death itself, and also, if possible, look beyond the death. And what can you do. And if you’re dying, what can you do to yourself. And if you’re standing by and helping others to sort of bidding farewell and what can you do. So this is what, basically,

00:06:00

This is I talked yesterday too but I’ll talk the different way today since the majority was not there yesterday. And also, I have to say, from the beginning, I’m going to talk from the background of buddhism and that of Tibetan Buddhism. So, that’s only what I know about it. And so, so, I have to talk from that angle. And so, if I touched certain points where, sort of, a little too sensitive or pushing close buttons, so, please forgive me. And it doesn’t mean for anybody, it’s not talking to any individual person but in general. So, from the angle what I know. So, that’s what I’m going to talk. So, what angle that I know is the teaching what Buddha gave. It doesn’t mean I know everything what Buddha taught. But I had the opportunity to study the Buddha’s teaching and that of Tibetan Buddhism. And, I said yesterday too, I’m sort of a little bit of proud that I was be able to be born in Tibet. In the period which you refer as Shangri-la period. Because it was in 1940s and 50s, that sort of 20 period of the 20 years. So, I’m born in ’39 and kick-out of Tibet in ’59. So, that’s exactly like a 20 years period that I been able to study in Tibet. Which is really the last golden period of, at least Tibetan Buddhism. So, I was a little bit of proud of that. Oh, proud. I look as fortunate to be able to have that opportunity. And so, what we talked is the essence of the Buddha’s teaching. And Buddha gave very interesting thing. And Buddha give you some kind of extra ordinary four logos of buddhism. The first one is: everything whichever is created is impermanent. The second and third, I’m not sure whether you are interested or not. But I might well as count it. The second one is: everything is contaminated, is suffering.

00:09:00

Contaminated is suffering. Every contaminated thing is suffering by nature. Every phenomena is nature of emptiness. And Nirvana is peace. These are the four major important points that Buddha made. The first is, everything which created is impermanent. And that is very important. And "impermanent" is actually, it is one of the beautiful thing in our life. People like it, people hate it. A lot of people like it a lot of people hate it. But, it is one of the most beautiful thing. Because it gives you room to do anything you need to do. Change, process of healing, process of purifying. It gives you room for movement. And it is not impermanent, it is permanent, then it is static fixture. So, that is difficult. And even those who hate the change, who have to think carefully, because it is totally static and permanent, it is very difficult. So, it is impermanent and it gives you a lot of room to do everything. Side by side, along with that, also the change is applicable to everything. To our body, to our life, to everything. So, that's why we change, every minute we change. Every week, every month, every minute, we change. Disadvantage is, we don’t get younger, thought we’d like to, we don’t. Day by day, we get older, and it is unavoidable. So, the conversation what I shared yesterday between this young guy, youthful, prime age. Excuse me, I never learned English. So, if there is difficulty, forgive me. If you don’t understand, don’t hesitate, stop me. Because there is no point if you don’t get it, right? So, it is traditionally Buddha’s teaching, actually, and then it is Tibetan points have made

00:12:00

it is a little more as usually, every point do, a little more exaggerated here, a little more exaggerated there. The dialog between the youth and the old age, the old guy, person. And so the young man told the old man, saying ‘hey, what a terrible looking are you. What are you? Who are you? Why are you here?’ I told that yesterday. And the young man looked back and said ‘Ah, I was also better than you, looking much better than you, and more powerful healthier, I’m much more physical strength than you, long ago, while ago.’ And I said, ‘you are fortunate if you be able to be like me. But I doubt it, you can live that long.’ So, the guy, Yea, that’s what he said. And the young man said “Well, I’d rather be dead than be looking terrible like you.’ And the old man replied again ‘Wow what an interesting, people would like to have longevity, healthy, and enjoy in life and wealth. How come one doesn’t want to get old.’ He said ‘that is stupid.’ Actually, He used the word ‘stupid.’ I did bring that book anyway, so, I better. The reason why I bring this book is also try to show you, that, it is the 17th century Tibetan Master. And that is how they actually teach a lot of Tibetans. Some of them, some of them are actually very receptive, open and dharma and you can straight away go and talk. And some of them you have to go in this manner. So, that what they used to do. So, he said most important thing here. He said ‘You will probably not live as much as I do but if you do so you are lucky. But if you don’t want to be old, it is not possible. And what a stupid you are. So, the other conversations between these young man and old man, most of them, most important ones, I shared yesterday. And so, I’m not going to repeat again. So, at the end of the conversation,

00:15:00

at the end of the conversation, the young man asked the old man ‘Well what you said is true, and that's what I can see, and it is very helpful to me.' Essence of what he said, essence of what he said is old people may look not so great physically, but old people have the peace in mind, experience in life. And it is the source of inspiration, and with a lot of dignity. And all this. Actually, the aging and the way how we treat the old people in the tibetan, old tibetan way is, I shouldn’t say everything is buddhist way but what way that they treat may have some contribution to be able to make in the western society. What a surprise to me is the people told me, don’t talk about your age. And that’s what I learned first, don’t talk about the age. So, that was a little surprising to me. And it’s one of our usual habit in Tibet, is in the good old Shangri-La Tibet, people get old too, as Lama’s have parents and the Shangri-La members get old too. So, they will ask ‘how old are you?’ It is a normal thing. And, you know, when I get to the west. Outside of Tibet, rather, and they told me not to ask ‘how old are you?’ So, it was a little surprising. But old for me is really a dignity rather than bad. But what bad is if you try to shut up these old people, what we call it. I’m getting old, so I’m an old person. So, that’s I’m not saying because I’m old. But I’m saying it way we treat people, and try to lock them in another sort of place, which we give a nice name. Whatever name you might give it, and just lock them there and try to wait when I’m going to die. It is a little, can I respond, that’s not very nice. It’s not a nice, it’s a little surprising. And even old they can do tremendous things. They have a lot of contribution, they have wisdom. Contribution to be made to the society. And living old age is one of the great thing, you know. One of the great thing because it is opportunity

00:18:00

to see the true reality. And it is opportunity to for yourself to improve your spiritual standard. And I’m going to say from the Tibetan background point of view, for better for your rest of the life and for future lives. And though I was listening last night the conversation between the Doctor, was it, Newman? Newman and Professor Therman. And it was really very true. The questions that Doctor Newman raised are, absolutely, correct. Really true. And we don’t have any scientific proof, or we don’t have anybody who had come back from bardo. I mean he said ‘I never met anybody who came back from bardo or the next life.’ It is absolutely true. True. Though we do have a lot of writings of, you know, what you call it autobiography of return from dead. I myself have edited a couple of them. And I look around, in the United States, in the libraries, there’s seventeen different of them available in, even in the United States. Written in Tibetan. And however, it is the story. It is story we have never met those authors. And those authors are somewhere said to be someplace this and that. And it’s not scientific at all. However, in my personal opinion we can always have to give the benefit of the doubt. And I think it is really true and what if there is a really future life. As myself, I personally believe there is reincarnation. I have to believe because it’s my job. I told you yesterday, I’m called incarnate Lama of Tibet, that’s what the Rimpoche is. The word Rimpoche comes from. So, other wise I’ll be kicked out the, I’ll lose my membership from the Rinpoche’s family. So, I don’t want to do that. I like to believe it. Believe it in the sense, not absolutely blind faith. Blind faith, not absolutely blind faith. But there are lot of things which you wonder. Like for example, at the young age our habitual patterns will repeat all the time. I mean, you people know more than I do. You don’t want your kids to see certain programs in television.

00:21:00

Playboy magazines or anything, you don’t want them to read and see. And you surprise and they know more than you do. And you discover this, ‘ah where are they coming from.’ And don’t talk about the Tibetan incarnate lamas, you know. I mean, as myself, I was recognized as an incarnate lama by age of four. Do I remember anything? I don’t even remember what I remembered at all. But I might have remembered something because I have to pass those tests. And some of the tests that I failed, true. You know, I was in the list of Penchan Lama. I didn’t share that yesterday with you. As a candidate list of the Penchan Lama. Two top Tibetan Lama’s the Dalai Lama and the Penchan Lama. And I was, sort of, number three on the list. So, I was told I pass quite well after the test. And at the end, I said "I have a gold mala, bring it gold mala." And there is no gold mala at all. So, that’s what I had failed. So, whether it is indication that I am not Penchan Lama or I don’t remember anything. So, whatever it is. So, that’s that. But I did see a couple of young incarnate lamas. I had myself encounter with them, at a young age they talk to you about their previous lives. Some of them tried to show you ‘that I am this person’ and that little boy will lie down just like that old one used to sit, does. When you go and see, particularly, they show you. You know, they show you how the old one used to act and sit and they try to, the little one will act the same way as the old one does. Oh, I had pain here, oooh, oooh, that sort of thing they do. Actually, the kid doesn’t have pain at all. And then they say ‘Oh today I think the sun is very nice over here, and with that with that reflection. And then they look at you and sort of seem, remember that type of thing. And I had that couple of experience within that. Anyway, most of those Incarnate Lamas, all, basically, nothing surprise. If you believe reincarnation, each and every one of us are incarnated, ok. Where all reincarnation of somebody. It is only that few of us in Tibet, somehow, haven’t had this label put on your forehead, marked you. I don’t know it is fortunate, or lucky, or unlucky, or whatever it is.

00:24:00

So, that have happened. But basically, each and everybody is reincarnation of somebody. As a matter of fact, Nagarjuna, one of the India’s greatest saint and scholars, said: [Tibetan, 24:10], says ‘What you really have to do is make sure that you don’t reincarnated and if you do that, you can not achieve anything better than that.’ This was the earlier great masters teaching. So, so, the reincarnation is nothing surprise. However, they do have memories. The memories will tell you whatever it is, a little bit. At age up to seven, by seven, normally they fade away. I’d just like to mention that. And then, I’ll go beyond this. Much to go here. And then the conversation between the young man and the old man. And the you man says ‘Is there anyway that I don’t have to suffer this aging way. And can you tell me is there something, can you tell me true, straight forward.’ The old man says [Tibetan, 25:10]. He said [Tibetan, 25:19] ‘Everything, everybody, who born will have to die. But those who will die with old age with dignity is only few.’ ‘Many of them die at a young age, they don’t have opportunity to remain for a long time to become old.’ ‘What you really need is a method not to die.’ He said ‘That’s not anywhere [Tibetan, 25:53].

00:26:00

He said ‘Before us, those who have come, the spiritually very powerful like Buddha, or any other great spiritual teachers, all gone.’ ’Not a single one is living today.’ ‘And those are the people around here with the spiritual power, material power, economic power, military power, or any power you name it, they will also go.’ ’So, how can you, alone by yourself, continue to live, it’s not possible.’ ‘But what can you do, is, you may get old, you may die but what you need is the joy in the mind.’ ‘You need happiness and joy in the mind.’ ‘If you do that, if you have that, even you die, it will be like child returning to the parents’ home.’ ‘And this is the best way how to deal with the life.’ ‘Even Buddha comes in life today, he has nothing more than that to say.’ That’s what the old man says. So, that’s what it is. It’s a reality. So, the how the Tibetans face the death. And we’ll divide it three different level and I have to talk from the spiritual point only. I can not talk material point. And so, spiritually, we divide it into three different categories. Those of great spiritually developed, that actually looking forward for dying. Because they know where they are going and they know what they are doing. So, that’s why they looking forward, like a returning to the family. The second category level should not have any regret. So, whatever, whenever it comes, it comes and you go through it. And when I say, whatever it comes, it comes when you go through it, it really doesn't mean that death is wonderful natural process, don’t worry about it, I get through alright. You know, this morning I was there short period when Therman was reading the Soygal Rimpoche’s book. About that time I had to leave. But that’s not the point. The point really is, when you have no regret, I mean, we are talking from the basic point of karmic point. So, the karmic point of view

00:29:00

when you don’t have any negative karma’s left with you, so then, even you die and you know what you going to get. It is only the positive karma’s left with you. So, therefore, they have no hesitations. I’m sorry, they have no regret. When it comes, it goes. And the last and the least, you should not have any regret. And that is how, no regret. Well, I have to regret I did this and I did that, no regret. And that is how the TIbetans look people to face the death. That is how it is. Now I would like to, so touch the last point. How can one can go with the no regret [silent pause]. Where is our most regrets comes in? It’s coming out of our negative thoughts and negative actions that we do. Our negative thoughts make us to do something not right. I mean, this is really, I’m not going to talk about this virtue and non-virtue. I’m going to talk about it, basically, right thing to do and the wrong thing to do. Our negative actions are wrong thing to do because it’s create suffering for the others and for ourselves too. whether you believe it or not, it create suffering for ourselves

00:31:00

and suffering for others. So, the negative acts. But can we do negative free, can we do everything right? It is not possible. No, not at all possible. Even, I shouldn’t say, but even Buddha. Yea, even Buddha, previous lives, create tremendous amount of negative. And negativity is something that we will do it. Without anybody has to teach us how to do it. We will do it automatically. It is basic, our habitual pattern, we always do it. Why? I don’t know but that’s what we do. I said ‘basic habitual pattern.’ We always do it, negative. But if you did some negativity and is that end of everything? I don’t think so. I don’t think so. And Buddha said ‘No.’ And I’m non-believer of guilt, I’m sorry to say that. Basically, as human being we do have a wonderful nature, within each and every human being have the wonderful nature. If you like it or not, whether you recognize or not, we do. The basic deep down in human being there’s a wonderful nature of human being. The kindness, the compassion, all of them, we have. Do you like to know whether you have it or not, how you know you have it. When you see some people are suffering, when you see people are under difficulty, you feel it. Particularly, in the west. Their one good quality, I like to say it, one good thing, more than Asians, I’m Asian. One good thing more than Asians, the vivid kindness, and the gentleness, and the loving the western people will show really good. And I keep on thinking all the time, I mean I can’t say that you’re kinder than eastern, but you are much more open and kind people. When you see people are suffering, you feel from your heart, you want to do something. And always, the americans like talk, so what can I do, you pick up your check book and they think that’s what you can do. That’s very nice, kind and wonderful, no doubt. Particularly, when I came out of Tibet as a refugee in 1959 with nothing. You know, like with empty hand like this, when you walk across the Himalaya. And when somebody gives you some food and cloth and all this. It is a great from that receiving point of view it is very great. So, I always appreciate that

00:34:00

kindness and that shown, particularly, from the west. And but that kindness shows that you have feeling, and you have compassion with you. And that’s why if you look in the television and the television people, though they give you a very short period, like a couple of seconds. Every information is, you know, too much you get. You know, everything is about, sort of, everything is bombarded on you these days, you know.

[Audio stops briefly]

GR: In that period and they want to report the only show you the sufferings that people have. People get gun, get killed and dead. And we don’t even (?) though seeing that all the time, all the time. From Bosnia to Somalia and everywhere we see that. And why do they do that? Because people have the kindness, it moves, it makes difference. That’s why they showing that, right? So, basically, we do have kindness and compassion nature. That is the sign, you can see it. This is how the buddhism taught us. You know [Tibetan]. When there is a smoke, you know there is fire. When there is a seagull sitting in the air, you know there was a water. And when you show the kindness, and the real gesture, kindness, you show, you know there is compassion inside. And that is exactly how it works. So, when you see that kindness and you know there’s compassion in there. As you know, you do have the wonderfulness, which we call it ‘Buddha Nature.’ Anyway, that’s buddhist, we call it Buddha Nature. Whether it is Buddha Nature, or it is

00:36:00

Human Nature or whatever it is, there is kindness and compassion, deep wonderful in there. But that wonderful, we don’t show to our friends equally. Normally we like to give a rough and cold shoulder to those people, right? That’s what we do. We don’t share the wonderfulness with others. We show them with roughness, we give them cold shoulder all the time. Suspicious, whatever it is. Where does that come from? Is it wonderful nature inside? Where does that come from? That is our habitual pattern. How we been acting in that way. Habitually we’ll do it. Habitually we have a strong attachment. Habitually we have strong anger and that’s what we do. That’s what we have. And that makes our life miserable. And that is our emotions. Emotional thing, that, that is what it is. So, what will that do? That will not only give us misery in our life but it also gives us trouble when you die. Particularly, attachment and anger is the one of the worst problems we have. Attachment is very strong so every single thing that I’ve read about or learned about the teachings from the Buddha on the death and dying level. Number one is, what that they tell you not to have attachment. And it is very easy to say, not to have attachment. But it is very difficult to do when you go through with this because we are within attachment. We are very much within attachment. It is very difficult to cut. But attachment is one of the biggest problems we have. So, that’s why people even say ‘let it go, let it go, let it go’ and all this sort of thing. I don’t know how, won't you let it go. But attachment should not be carried. So, when you approaching to the death, so, you can to cut attachment. So, easy to say, difficult to do. And so, if you look in the buddhist teaching they give you a lot of method how to cut attachment. But whether it worked or not, but what I noticed, what I noticed and what I experienced is, if you can change. Also, I’m sorry, in the buddhist tradition will tell you, especially, vajrayana will tell you, transform the attachment into love. Yea, very great, wonderful. Easy to say again, how? Is it difficult. They tell you there is steps how to do but if you do it, it takes million of times to do that. That’s reality. So, what do you do? What I noticed, what I’m experiencing is, if you change your attachment in appreciation, that is not impossible to do. Appreciation. And that’s what you really need it, appreciation. Have two benefits, ok? From the spiritual point of view, by appreciation, you sort of created another positive karma and also you gain tremendous amount of merit. Almost double if you appreciate what you’ve been able to do. So, that way, it’s good way of building positive karma, as well as, cutting attachment. ‘Clinging on,’ attachment is one kind of ‘let it go.’ Somehow you have to hold on and somehow you have to can’t let it go.

00:40:00

So, that’s clinging on is really the attachment. People call it messy. Some people tell it, ‘get off my back.’ That’s what attachment really is, a clinging on. That’s what you don’t need it. What you need it is appreciation. Appreciate what you had. Appreciate the friends, what they have done to you. And appreciate what you could have done, you’d been able to do for the others. So, that appreciation is the key step, as far as I’m concerned. It is a step to really transforming the attachment. From that level, then you can go beyond that. That is one thing. Another thing is, free of the negativity, is another thing. Free of negativity. Ok, I’m not going to talk to you, I’m not tell you the buddhist language for that is a purification. Purification is the buddhist language for that. However, purification here really means seeking a forgiveness or something. That is the normal language, right? Seeking forgiveness, right? Isn’t that right? Yea, forgiveness. Ok, it’s not that you are asking God to forgive you. It’s not that you are asking Buddha to forgive you. It is your asking forgiveness, the act what you did is somehow substitute that. That is the real forgiveness. What you are seeking forgiveness within the buddhism it is a very really great thing. Actually really wonderful thing. As a buddhist, I don’t believe in guilt at all. I am non-believer of guilt, whether you like it or not. And I’m very proud to be non-believer of guilt. If I understand guilt correctly. I’m believer of karma, ok. On the other hand, I’m believer of karma but I’m not believer of guit. Guilt is to me, if I understand correctly, means you have done something and now you can’t do nothing and you are stuck. Is that right? I don’t believe that at even a minute. You know why? It is impermanent. The basic impermanent. Our lives impermanent. Our everything is impermanent. If you don’t believe it, look in the mirror, you will know it. Look in your old picture of twenty years ago and look in your picture of today. Put them together, that will tell you that you are impermanent. I believe that

00:43:00

and see it. That is what it is. It is impermanent that changes. So, it is possible to be able to change. So, something which you can not do is totally, I do not want to use the language but, it is to me, it is almost like b.s. Excuse me, but that’s what it is. You can’t do, what can you do, what can you do, right? There is everything that you can do, everything that you can do. Buddha taught four powers, four powers. Power of base, base. Base on which you work. Power of base. Power of antidote action. Antidote action. Antidote. Antidote action, thank you. Power of regret. Regret. And not to repeat. Recognition and antidote action. And regret. And promise not to repeat. Commitment not to repeat. And that is the, basically, power that Buddha shared. And Buddha did not share his power like me here sitting there and talking. What he did is, if you read the Jataka story, and it is a true story of Buddha’s life time. Unfortunately, nobody is living today to ask whether that is true or not. It is a recorded. There is a story called Angulimala (45:06). Angulimala. There is a guy who had some terrible teachers. Spiritual teachers. Sometimes you have to be careful. A terrible spiritual teacher who told him ‘If you go and kill one thousand people and put their tongues in the rosary form and wear it and come back to me, I’ll liberate you.’ And the guy picked it up a huge knife and goes and chops everybody. This is two hundred five thousand years ago, there are no police I believe. So, nobody really catching them. So, what happened is, this guy managed to kill nine hundred some ninety people. And could not fill up the last one. Really true, could not fill up the last one. Because everybody run away.

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And what do you expect in a little village a thousand people not going to sit there and get killed. No, they run away. But who did not run away? His own mother. His own mother did not run away but scared, hiding. But tried to talk to him. Hiding. Tried to show her face and hide and all these things. She been playing. This is interesting, note this, ok? The Tibetan Buddhism will tell you, treat everybody like your mother, and your mother is great and this and that. And if you look to your own mother, you probably get angry or upset, that’s what happened in the West. But I believe, there’s a many lady, woman here, if you have your own children, how much you care to the children, look from that angle. Don’t look from the angle and look ‘Oh, I hate my mother,’ don’t do that way. Look the other way around. Yourself, put yourself as a mother and how much you care for your children. And if you, everybody is a reasonably good mother. Every reasonably good mother will have no hesitation to take all the suffering of your own kids. You would jump to save the kids life, say if somebody walked in here with a gun and started shooting. If your kids there, the mother will stand in front of the kid. And others will go behind everybody, no matter how much we talk love and compassion. But we will be hiding others, you know. That’s will be the reality. And that way shows how much the mother, as mother yourself, and care for the kids. Your own children. And that’s there. And same thing two thousand five hundred years ago. His mother is hiding, try to save this guy. Try to help him, yet sacred that he may kill you, you know that thing going on. And he also hesitation, hesitated, to kill his own mother. But he’s not filling his one thousand number, here. That dilemma there. So, suddenly, Buddha walked by. Buddha walked by and he said ‘Hey, now I don’t have to catch my mother, I catch this guy, here you go.’ And as the Buddha walking slowly, slowly and this guys a running but he couldn’t catch Buddha. And they keep on going long way around, long way around. And after a little while, he’s getting tired and he says ‘Hey, wait.’ So, Buddha says ‘I’ve been waiting here, come faster.’ That’s what he did. That is how it begin the conversation. That the moment you begin to talk, then you have openness. You can exchange idea, you can give something. So, Buddha brought this guy, finally, to his own, whether you call it monastery or ashram, or whatever you call it. So, on his camp. So, Buddha brought this guy to his own camp.

00:49:00

And gradually made him practice, and make him become one of the Arhats. That’s in the buddhist level, it’s sort of nirvana guy. So, became one of the nirvana guy and Buddha gave that as an example. Here is a guy who kill nine hundred and ninety-nine beings with that big knife of his and he became purified and become Arahat. So, why can’t you and me. And that’s how, Buddhas’ level, he could do that. Unfortunately, we are handicapped to be able to do that. But that’s how Buddha did it. So, if a person who killed nine hundred and ninety-nine human being can purify, why not you and me. We are far better than that. So that’s what I say is impermanent. Impermanent, it’s changeable. How Buddha taught them to do, is you do need a regret. You don’t need quilt but you do need regret because the regret is something important. If you don’t regret, why should you bother. Right. If you don’t recognize what you did is wrong. And if you don’t regret, you keep on doing it again and again, there’s no end to it. Why bother, forget it. So, if you have regret, and then you have to do something. If you killed somebody, you save life. You know, antidote. If you have stolen something, steel someones' property or something, whatever. Then you be generosity. And if you been angry because of some little bit of patience. If you been lazy, put up a little diligence work, enthusiasm. If you been ignorant, build up some wisdom. Easy to say, thats’ one. So, anyway, so, that is the antidote action. I mean, if you are beyond that, if you are buddhist or whatever it is, there’s mantras and there’s this and there’s that and all this is there. But, even buddhist or no buddhist, the principle how the karma works, how the thing really functions within individual it is everybody the same thing. It’s not only the buddhist goes to the nirvana or the heaven. Or atheist doesn’t go to heaven, that not true. Everybody has a equally opportunity and chance to go to nirvana or heaven or whatever it is.

00:52:00

It is whatever you are atheist or whatever you are Hindu, Muslim, buddhist, Jain, Judeo-Christian or non-believer of anything, everybody has the. Should I say the American language ‘the right to go.’ Everybody has the right to go to nirvana or heaven. As well as everybody has the right to go to hell too. So, that’s what it is. So, antidote action is the most important. Do something to substitute. Though, from the karmic point of view, you may have to do something specific and this and that. But, so, the time goes so fast, I thought it’s like five minutes that I’ve been talking. So, anyway, so, so antidote action. And if you engage in that, basically, I like to tell you what. The most important one what you do, is to be a nice and kind and wonderful human being. What you are, to be try to act according to what you are. And that will really do. You don’t have to have a mala carrying around and identify yourself as I do, you know. So, identify yourself by saying mantras and all this, and wear it in your neck, do all sorts of funny things. You don’t need to do that at all. What you really do is nice honest and wonderful what you are try to short it out. Ok? So, since many of you are not there, what I would like to repeat yesterday, since many of you are not there yesterday. What I would like to repeat is the dying state a little bit and the meditations what I give you yesterday. I’m going to give you different ones today. And so, I’d like to take, I was told we have to take like ten minutes break. What? Five minutes break, all right? Five minutes break is on leave (?) So, five minutes break and then we meet again. Ok, now, I try to talk less and get more on the point. Because if we keep on talking, I don’t know where the time goes. So, the question that I raised earlier, ‘How the Tibetan Buddhist practitioners face death.’ Because I don’t think that there is a single unified answer for it. Last night on this conversation between the Dr. Newman and, ‘Newman,’ right?

00:55:00

Newman and Professor Therman. Newland and Professor Therman. I must tell you one thing, you know, I have a big difficulty to pronounce western names. I have a friend who’s name is "Yael," I keep on calling her for two years ‘Yaya,’ ‘Yoyo,’ all sorts of names, so. So, that’s what I did. So, I couldn’t say Yael properly, it took me two years. So, that’s me, so forgive me. But anyway, I was listening to there conversation and one of the important question that he raised said ‘How do you console when people are dying.’ Remember that? So, I keep on thinking myself, and when he’s talking I can’t help thinking ‘How do you do that?’ So, I begin to see, not begin to see but, that’s a different level. And the different level of people have a different way you have to do it. And because I don’t think we can do it one uniform for everybody. I’m looking from the spiritual point of view now. And spiritual point of view way and how you console and we will see the level of where the individual is, try to give whatever the boost is we can give. Because death is such a thing and that is a great opportunity to transform. You can, we talked about it, we said ‘Transform the anger into patience,’ or ‘Transform the attachment into love or compassion.’ Whatever it is anger and love, you can talk that easily. But the process is not that easy. The death gives opportunity. I mean, I’m talking strictly from the point of reincarnated business, ok. That is a tremendous opportunity where the process is can be done fairly quickly and very effectively and very powerful. And that is the death. Why? Because the mind, at that moment, it has become a subtle. It is very subtle mind. Subtle mind is free of all garbages. Yeah, really true. We don’t carry the garbage around and it is the free of that. So, whatever you have, wherever you apply on that, it is in a very powerful, penetrating, and wonderful period. And that’s why I can agree when the people say ‘That is wonderful,’ and blah, blah, blah. And opportunity and all this and that. That is definitely true.

00:58:00

So, that is the one point. So, in my personal opinion we do have to consult people in various levels. Do you know why? The Tibetan buddhist gives people a lot of different ways of handling the death. Number one, the great people, great spiritual high people. What they do, they don’t go through the ordinary the ordinary death. Ok, now I’m talking about the religion again, I’m sorry. Buddhism. You don’t do through death. Death been substituted by three different levels of, death has been substituted, rebirth has been substituted by the three different level of becoming buddha, fully matured and functioning as a fully enlightened beings in three different levels. So, that will be substituted, that is the very highly developed spiritual guys up there. And the second ones, what they do, if you’re not in that level and what else you do. Use this opportunity to cut down your bad habit. Yesterday I said, somebody asked me ‘What is the reincarnation?’ I promised to reply, then I said Tunmo Rimpoche said ‘reincarnation is nothing but other than your bad habit.’ But I don’t think I explained that. So, I think it’s opportunity I have to take it here. And explain it. The bad habit is the habitual patterns that we have. We function as a positive or negative. Whatever it is, it is some kind of ‘impinge’ (?) we carry on our consciousness. Or soul, whatever it is. And when you have that, when it comes with, it is like a seed. Then you have this seed and you put them in the ground, put some water and give some heat, it grows. Right? And so, but what I did, I bought some seed of grass, in the Michigan. And I put them in the garage and forgot to put them down, it doesn’t grow anymore. So, why, the conditions not there. It’s not that I don’t have seed. I do have seed in the garage but doesn’t grow because there is no condition. Even karma depends on condition. Whether karma materialize or not, it depends on condition. Do you know that? That’s why dependent originated, we all depend. Interdependent relationship with the person, people, world, environment, everything is interdependent. Tremendous amount of interdependent. One can not function without other. I can not function without you people. You can not function without other people. You can’t function without me but.

01:01:00

You can’t function without other people. Human beings can not function without environment. You know, all these, their very much interdependent. Tremendous interdependent relationship there. That’s why even karma is dependent, interdependent. It is conditions that are required. And that’s why we have room for purification. That’s why we can have room for getting forgiveness. And that’s why we have room for appreciate, appreciate. Because of the interdependent and because of the impermanent. That’s what it is. I don’t want to talk too much. So, I better go on. And please make sure that I give some room for questions and answer. At least fifteen minutes or something. So basically, when the death approach. I talked yesterday, I’m going to repeat because it is important and that I know. And how it happens to you. What I told yesterday, our existence is also interdependent. Interdependent with other person. Interdependent within ourself, within our elements. Elements of earth, elements of the water, element of fire, element of air. And that’s what we are dependent. If you don’t have air in you, you can’t breath. If you can’t breath, you’re dead. Simple as that. And if you are, so each one of those elements within us. Like the flesh and bone are the earth element within us. Digestive powers are heat element within us, or fire, whatever you call it. Within us. And fluid in our body is the water element within us. Air in our body is the circulation. If there is no air, how will we move. So, that’s what it is. So, when you do a healing or when you die the process depends on those elements. And that is the, what Buddha taught. That’s what Buddha experienced. That what I’m sharing with you. It’s not necessarily Native Americans are only, when they talk about earth and water and all this. Oh yea it’s Native American. It’s not only the Native Americans but Buddhism do that too. Really true. And many of what Native Americans are doing is also correct. Because buddhism is correct. Excuse me, anyway. So, so, what happens is when you heal, you have to heal with the elements. And when you dissolve, let’s call it dissolve, and you dissolve when the elements dissolve. So, when you die, what we call death or dying, what happens is elements in our body is not functioning.

01:04:00

And that’s, then its the body become un-serviceable. And so, I normally, during the time when I talk, I always say ‘We live in a rented apartment.’ Our body is a rented apartment. When the apartment doesn’t work, the water doesn’t function, there’s no heat, there’s no light, we have to go. We can’t stay there and that’s how it happening. So, the death, the process of death is the death for me, is the separation of the consciousness, or soul, or whatever you may call it. I’m not saying the soul is right and consciousness is wrong or vice a versa. Actually, that is the separation of the consciousness and this body, this life. We call it life. Who are you, I am so and so. Don’t we say that, right? I’m so and so. We do this here, Gelek Rimpoche. So, I’m not trying to tell you that’s what I am. How do I exist. I exist on the combination of my consciousness, my functioning body, and my label. Combined together is becoming me. I’m not going to repeat what Professor Therman give last night, the basic principle of emptiness, what he was talking last night. But I’m not going to repeat that. But actually, Interdependent thing, is not only outside, within me. I depend on my body chemicals. It’s called chemicals, right? Items, or each and every unfortunately. Anyway, of that, my name, and my consciousness meet in there together. And if I don’t have the consciousness, within me, then my body is something else. You call it dead body or. Corpse, whatever you call it, ok. That’s what it. And if my name is not there, there is who i use it. Oh, I don’t know who am I. So, so, all of them are there. So, when you dying, what happened is the separation of that ending of that dependent relationship. Of my, particularly my body elements and my consciousness. That is the buddhist point of view. I am believer of reincarnation. So, it’s not end of everything. It’s not end of everything. It’s not like candle light blow out. When the candle lights blow out and then there’s nothing left, right. There’s no continuation, it’s blow [Tibetan].

01:07:00

So, candle light been blown. And there’s nothing left, no feeling, nothing, nothing, is gone. So, the Buddha doesn’t agree with that and Buddha says ‘I’m continue.’ And I don’t want to loose my name and my job so I will say I continue. So, the death becomes the separation of that consciousness and elements. So, how you separate with elements and yourself. What is the process. The process number one, is actually, the earth element within our body is no longer functioning. It stop, it disconnect with us. So, when the earth element disconnect with us we feel, I’ll give you two signs. One sign, what you are the dying person will experience. And the external sign, what other peoples can see and then you’ll know what’s happening within the individual. From looking at it, because you are, lot of you are here to help others, to service others. So, if you are looking for this process, if you know the external sign and then you begin to see what’s happening. So, the internal sign first. This is my training, unless I have the, at least, even not experience. But at least to extend of meditating and visualizing and going within me. And then I wont be able to know yet. Whatever I know it will be the intellectual knowledge. So, intellectual knowledge not necessarily bad but not necessarily that great either