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;;;Soundfile year/month/day/author/location/topic = 19950513GRJHNL2 (2nd of 2 files)

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location eg: Netherlands

Topic e.g: Self Liberation

Transcriber Janet Diamond

Date

The cause of the illness. Here comes the difference between the holistic doctors and allopathic doctors. So allopathic doctors will treat your symptoms. The holistic doctors will treat you with the cause. But what you need is both. You need to treat the symptoms. Otherwise, you’ll be miserable. And you need to treat the cause, because you’ve got to get better. It’s not only the time. So that’s why knowing the cause of the problem . The cause of the problem is nothing than that of karmic cause and the delusion cause. And when you talk about the karma and the karmic, and all this, it’s a very mystical thing. However, it’s not important. The important point is behind the karma, what makes karma. And what makes karma is the delusions which are of course, there’s another word they use is something like infllicted or afflicted emotions which I never know how to say it, affected emotions. (Dutch speaker: Afflicted) GR: Afflicted emotions, which I never know how to say. So how does that emotion function? And those emotions, whether you call it delusion or whether you call it what is is? afflicted emotions? (Translator: afflictive) Afflictive. All right. Whatever it is. The point is, how it functions.

0:02:57.8. It is, you’re referring to anger, hatred, jealousy, attachment. All this. That is what you are referring to. And how is it functioning with us. It is functioning with us as though it were our nature. Right? Although, it is not our nature. It functions as though we are born. We are born with this. This is true. We are born with this, as though it is our nature. Right? So,to make it separate from our wonderful nature. To make it separate, you need to work. Without working, it won’t work. It’s like silver or gold. Silver. If you have a silver piece here and if you leave it there, it tarnishes and so much so, it looks like a little black piece of iron or something. So to make it look like silver, to make it shine again, to make it like a white metal, to make it beautiful, what you’ve got to do is you’ve got to clean it. You’ve got to do, what do you call it? Silver polish, thank you. Silver polish, and then you’ve got to get a cloth and clean it and all this. It takes time and energy and effort. And if you do so, it looks like that silver pot looks like a black rusty metal cup, but when you polish it, and then it comes out the nature of clean and clear.

0:06:05.3 But you’ve got to do something. Just by putting an injection and go to sleep won’t work, and that’s the reason why even though some of the drugs have shown. The cause of the illness. Here comes the difference between the holistic doctors and allopathic doctors. So allopathic doctors will treat your symptoms. The holistic doctors will treat you with the cause. But what you need is both. You need to treat the symptoms. Otherwise, you’ll be miserable. And you need to treat the cause, because you’ve got to get better. It’s not only the time. So that’s why knowing the cause of the problem . The cause of the problem is nothing than that of karmic cause and the delusion cause. And when you talk about the karma and the karmic, and all this, it’s a very mystical thing. However, it’s not important. The important point is behind the karma, what makes karma. And what makes karma is the delusions which are of course, there’s another word they use is something like infllicted or afflicted emotions which I never know how to say it, affected emotions. (Dutch speaker: Afflicted) GR: Afflicted emotions, which I never know how to say. So how does that emotion function? And those emotions, whether you call it delusion or whether you call it what is is? afflicted emotions? (Translator: afflictive) Afflictive. All right. Whatever it is. The point is, how it functions.

0:02:57.8. It is, you’re referring to anger, hatred, jealousy, attachment. All this. That is what you are referring to. And how is it functioning with us. It is functioning with us as though it were our nature. Right? Although it is not our nature. It functions as though we are born. We are born with this. This is true. We are born with this, as though it is our nature. Right? So to make it separate from our wonderful nature. to make it separate, you need to work. Without working, it won’t work. It’s like silver or gold. Silver. If you have a silver piece here and if you leave it there, it tarnishes. and so much so, it looks like a little black piece of iron or something. So to make it look like silver, to make it shine again, to make it like a white metal, to make it beautiful, what you’ve got to do is you’ve got to clean it. You’ve got to do, what do you call it? Silver polish, thank you. Silver polish, and then you’ve got to get a cloth and clean it and all this. It takes time and energy and effort. And if you do so, it looks like that silver pot looks like a black rusty metal cup, but when you polish it, and then it comes out the nature of clean and clear.

0:06:05.3 But you’ve got to do something. Just by putting an injection and go to sleep won’t work, and that’s the reason why even though some of the drugs have show something behind that, but you don’t get the silver polish, and put it and clean it, easily you can clean it but if you don’t get silver polish and you try to wash it with water, try to put soap and use a brush and rub everything, no matter how much you work hard, it’s not easy to get off. So, it’s not only that you have to work, but you’ve got to do the right thing. And that’s the reason why we’re not enlightened today. That’s your thought. Good thought, very good thought and that’s the answer why it didn’t work. So any other questions? Dutch questioner: I want to know what exactly is the problem. What is the reason that people can’t do these efforts. Very simple question, right? Why can’t you do it? A very simple answer. Dutch student: Lazy GR: Yeah. (laughter)

0:09:06.7 She gave an answer. That’s one of the answers. I think it’s our habit. A simple answer. Habit. To change habit is extremely difficult. If you form a short time habit. Let’s say you go to work in the morning . Do you go to work in the morning? You take a certain direction, a certain route. You keep on doing that for one month, going that road and come back on the same road and the next day, if someone says “Would you give me a ride?” You don’t have to do anything. You just have to change your route a little bit. Right? You have to change your street from A to B or something. Just have to change your street and what do you do? In your heart, you just have to say, yeah, because you’re obligated, right? But in your heart of hearts, I have to get up early in the morning. I have to take a different route. I’m not sure whether it is. You’re going to get irritated. Even simply out of habit. That’s the difficulty. Forget about changing the habit. Even acknowledging habit is become a big problem. It pushes 2 painful buttons.

0:12:00.6 So you don’t want anyone to come near the buttons. You like to protect it., put shields around them, put locks around or… You know there’s an animal called the porcupine? That’s what it is. That’s why I said habitual. We deal with that. This is the whole, 2 whole days we have to deal with. We said 2 whole days, but half day is over. Anyway, I guess that’s it, and if you have any other questions. Yes, sir. Dutch translator :”Can Western types of therapy have a function within Buddhism?” GR: Definitely. Translator: What therapies? GR: Definitely. I don’t know much about therapy, because I don’t know anything about it (laughter). But there’s a lot of therapists who work and who have been a great help and there’s a complete set of Buddhist psychology and Buddhist psychotherapists both are valuable. It is only a matter of identifying it and (name of one Rimoche here)0:14:18.4. He tries to pick up the Buddhist mind functioning and its related things. You put them in Buddhist psychology and psychotherapy, as you know. 0:15:01. And the ( 0:15:05.4 I can’t make out a word) is not only the person. There’s a more well known personality, Jack Kornfield and Joseph Goldstein, (can’t make out a name 0:15:23.0) and all these people with a psychology background. Oh, there’s one more, a guy called Surya Das a contemporary of Ram Da , Surya Das, and all this and they try to use the Buddhist mind and mental functioning things combined with, even in our Jewel Heart we have our Aura Glaser. She does that and there’s other people quite a number of them do this and there’s definitely very strong connection and linkage and working and being helpful with Buddhist mind and mental functioning, mind and mental faculty functioning, and using with the terminology and ideas of psychology and psychotherapists is very helpful.

Questioner: 0:16:57.9 Is meditation the only way to achieve those efforts or can the lifestyle or the way you stand in line be also a way to achieve those (unsure of word 0:17:16.0) GR : Where does the word meditation come from? Do you have any idea? Huh? I mean, where it’s coming from, is it a Latin background, or is it from Greek or Latin, and what it is, a Sanskrit background, meda, what is it? Dutch translator: The word meditation has a Latin background and the first part as far as I know, medi refers to center, medium, medius and tari could be, I don’t know but I think it comes from the verb stare (pronounced stari) which means to stand, to be , stand in the middle. I think it’s that. GR: In the Sanskrit, also too , mandal,, mandala all of them function as principal in the center. So, if you look in that way, the meaning of the word of meditation and its background, and I’m not sure whether we’re right or wrong but we got the consensus is here is like a center and which means focus, balance point and balancing point in the middle. If you look from that angle, yeah, the meditation is the only way to get out.

0:20:11.7 But in the Tibetan origin of the word for meditation is Gom, which means really concentrate and hold on which really doesn’t give you that central point of balancing but if you look at meditation as what meditation instructors have taught, on how to sit and focus, and all these type of things, I don’t think that’s the only way at all. But what you really need is analyzing, understanding, acknowledging, and changing. And that’s what you’ve got to do. And without which we can not do. So, I will not say that meditation is the only way in which you will understand as meditation today. But I think you’ve got to think, you’ve got to analyze, and you’ve got to make corrections. And that’s the only way whether you do it this way, or Christian way, or Muslim way or Hindu way or your own way, I think it’s not big important. But important is changing, correcting.

0:23:00.2 And I believe it is 2 o’clock. I’m wondering if people in the back. Are you people comfortable? Are you ok? OK. Before we stopped, hands raised Klas raised his hand and said we’ve got to stop, so Questioner: I was wondering if you can see the experiences are similar to experiences….(can’t make out what he’s saying 0:24:54.3, possibly drugs or chemicals?) GR: I don’t know really. I don’t know whether we can say it’s the same experience or not but there’s certain people, particularly during when it is pure essence, before, now we get the mixture. That’s what I was told. Anyway, when it was the pure essence, a number of people have benefitted too. A number of people have gone down too. A number of people have been benefitted so I do not know if the experience that they get is the same as meditative experience or not A. B, another point meditative experience is an experience you get by working and the chemical experience is a chemical experience and it lasts as long as the chemical effect is there. Whether it’s going to give a positive effect or negative effect, I don’t think we have control. At least in those days, and so whatever negative or positive effect you get, it remains with you as long as the chemical effect is there. The meditative effect is different because it is from hard work, by putting in your mental, physical, pyscho energy combined together, and so it is something developed within your own psychic system, so therefore, it comes and goes but I don’t think its effect is like that of chemical effects because way and how it comes from itself. 0:27:04.9 But I don’t want to sit here and act like a drug counselor because I really don’t know anything about it. And another thing I brought up this morning, when I was talking about experience with the psychology and the child molesters, and all this and a very dear friend here brought up a point, which is very important point, which is absolutely I did not overlook, but I did not pay attention. It is absolutely true to people who have been molested during childhood, when you’re working with a counselor and psychologists, it’s very difficult to bring in to the point of remembering. It is also absolutely difficult, and I’m totally aware of that but when I was saying this morning, the bearded one I’m not referring to those . I’m not saying that people were wrong, but sometimes the patient who goes to the counselor is extremely difficult to express, particularly women . Women have tremendous problem of expressing their difficulties. What I understand, like you know with rape cases, and like 60% of the people will go free because the women will not come out in the open to say in the court. Just they don’t want. It’s too much for them to take it. And to be able to come out and to say and that much is a great difficulty and it is no doubt. I’m not saying that what they said is wrong. That is definitely a very hard time and hardship .At the same time, the counselor, whoever it is, has got to very careful too. This is what my main point is. You just can’t make a blanket perception and point it out the finger on some father, who might not have done anything, also true, isn’t it? That is the point and it is very difficult for women to come out to the point of being able to bring that level . It’s also very, very hard and one who does that has to be really encouraged.

0:30:59.9 I’m glad to bring that up to you. It’s not the first time I did this, ok? This is the second time and maybe my Tibetan background or monastic background, or whatever it is. When I go on this I always see the counselor’s point and forget the patient’s difficulties that they face. This is not always but this is my second time and it happens you know. I’m reminded just like you did. Aura reminded me in America once, so this is the second time , you know, really true. Because the monastery is only male. (laughs) It’s not that males are also free of that problem either. You know. But man has so little courage to say it. I don’t know maybe. Maybe not. (laughs) Robins shaking her head.

0:34:00.9 So you’re right. That’s true. It is a general society problem. You can’t be open, embarrassed, you feel shy and you’re intimidated, and all this is a general society problem. So, now I would like to move from this point of what we’re talking about, the psychological point and drug point to a Buddhist oriented point. I really don’t have to move, but link it up . The way and how, again is we’re on the first noble truth. So in this society today, whatever we’re experiencing, whatever we’re acknowledging is this type of little problems we’re acknowledging but we’re not really acknowledging the total suffering at all. Basically, in Buddhism, if you look very carefully, they give you even birth, as suffering and difficulty. And I’m sure there is a lot of pain when you’re born but I don’t remember a thing. I don’t know whether you people remember or not. You’re supposed to remember, you know, but nothing , but they cry all the time . I don’t know. Is that the sound of the expression of pain, crying, or expression of joy? I don’t know. People cry both ways, anyway. Whether the child had pain or you remember or not, the mother had tremendous problem . We all know that. But along with that, there’s joy too. So somehow, it balances out, I believe.

0:37:01.0— Since, I’ve never been a mother, I don’t know. I believe it balances out, somehow. So, even the suffering of pain also has the joy nature in it. Then the second point that Buddha clearly pointed out is the aging problem. Is it again, very much the same thing as the mother’s pain been balanced by the joy of having a child. Similarly, the aging has a tremendous problem and pain. No doubt but at the same time, the joy of experience of life and source of experience, source of information and dignity of life, and all of them there too and there is a great teacher called

(can’t catch the name 0:38:58.3) , the seventeen hundreds, and he wrote a very interesting poetry . It is a dialogue between the youthful, young and very extremely old person. I’m not sure how much I’m going to remember, but a few of them I’ll share with you. The youth goes and tells, “how horrible you’re looking, who you are what you are, where you come from, what you want”.

0:40:04.1 And the elder one says, “a few years ago I was much more handsome than you are, and I had much more athletic power than you do now, and if I had to run, I could catch a running horse, I feel like I can catch the flying bird too”,. No. “If I run, I run faster than a horse . “That’s it, yeah. OK. But, I had them. It means, it becomes the past tense. “And I had tremendous experience in life, which you don’t even know by now what it is. And that’s what I am. I have grey hair. I did not paint it. I received the invitation from the lord of death, one after another. And when I speak, my sound is not straight . I’m not trying to say a strange secret mantra. But I spoke so much that my tongue is tired.” (laughter) . I don’t think I’m going to remember much, but the bottom line come to finally, the youth has been convinced by the older person that the older person has tremendous experience, and had dignity in life. Everything what you talk about today, the person had already and so, finally, the youth agreed with him and says, “Can I have the method that I will become not like you?

0:43:13.5— And the older one says, “Yes. it is easy” He said, “There’s so many people who die, yet very few people will die old and with dignity. It is funny that you want to have a long life, and you want to have success, but you don’t want to become old. That’s funny. But if you can, you should have a method of not dying, and that’s what you need, but you’re not going to get that at all. But you have to appreciate the aged person , their experience, their knowledge and he agrees. I skipped . He agrees that he has to very much appreciate experience, very much appreciate the source of knowledge, and the source of everything, but he doesn’t like the look . That’s what he’s talking about. So, the aging is another problem. And, again, it matters how you look at it. If you look at it as a problem, it is a problem. If you look at it as dignity, and if you look at it as a source of joy, source of information, source of appreciation, then it is quality. 0:46:00.7 Here is the difference between the ancient society and what we call the modern developed society. The ancient society respects the elder and you know, it is the head of the family , it is the one who makes the decision, it is the one who you look to for guidance, it is the wise. And tremendous things, the role they’ve played in history and we even refer to them as

Tibetan word( mayboy?)0:47:10.2 in Tibetan which is sort of ancient guidance or something like that. the word is (maypole?)0:47:27.2 but in the modern western society, they lose the respect, and people put them aside somewhere. And which is very unfortunate, actually. You shuffle them in something called an old folks home. This is what we do today. I’m sorry, really. Which is not the right thing to do., is not necessarily a good thing to do either, but on the other hand they also have difficulties of managing and responsibilities, and all these are there, but it’s really there’s a problem. It really has to be addressed properly and people have to find a way and how. I’m not saying it because I’m getting old. I’m not saying that ok, really, truly but I think of the elder as a statesman. I don’t know, if you look at Native Americans and how much respect they give to the elder statesmen and they ‘re called elders and they’re not called old folks. They’re called elders and all these are another general society problem which we face today which again needs complete attention in the way and how you look because the society is society. People make the society. Society doesn’t make people. And when you become old, our physical body, is such a thing, it has limited capacity.

0:50:03.9 Everyone is going to have the same problem. You’re going to have arthritis, some of you, you ‘re going to have any sort of those aging problems. You’re going to get them. It’s just simply because our body is such a chemical, such an elementary way, so it has its limitations. And if those limitations all of a sudden come overnight, and there would be no (more) serious suffering than that. I’m saying this because traditional teachers will tell you that way. but the good thing about the aging suffering is that it comes gradually. So, somehow, you adjust to that.,but the society needs to adjust as yourself adjusts. Right or wrong? Definitely because that is something very important people have to pay attention to. And we are very good to have the compassion to sort of somebody who are ill, physically ill or wounded or something like that.We’re very good at that. We might not be that much alert and aware of suffering, like aging or physical limitations. Physical limitations, people may not be so much aware of as when wounded or somebody sick. So it is absolutely important to pay attention. And we all will go through with that if we’re lucky.

0:53:04.0 The elder person says everyone will die. Very few will die with age and dignity. So, briefly about that much, the aging part of it. I’m sure you do have a lot of questions and all this. Now next comes the dying part of it. Basically one thing is very good in the West. You know, what I noticed with people, there’s a kindness within. Everybody has it . And there’s really kindness with everybody because basically, in principle, you will refuse to accept certain injustice. Which is somehow, very much in the east. A few years ago, I had a friend who’s a young person, about 17 or 18.Now he’s a full fledged lawyer named Matthew. He came here, in Holland and then went to Singapore with me. Remember? And in Singapore, the place where I was staying there’s a Chinese business man’s house and they have a domestic servant coming from the Philippines and the treatment given by the family to the domestic, which if you compare with others, they really treating her so well, but for Matthew, it’s not right.

0:56:12.7 because they’re not treating equally, they’re not eating equally, they’re not sitting together , they don’t have the right to share everything together so by the third week, I have to keep Matthew quiet because he’s biting the dinner everywhere so as I said, it’s because they in the west, people have the openness to be able to accept, and when it is not there, they’re unable to accept. You have that attitude. It’s a good quality you have that , the westerners have.

0:57:13.8 So, that’s why there’s openness there. That’s why I say it’s good in the West but then in the east it’s slightly different because they will accept this inequality as part of structure or whatever you call it. It’s nothing strange, nothing new, nothing wrong, you know, that sort of attitude. So why? Why? We cannot dismiss it as society. We can not dismiss it and say that that’s how they do it but we may not be able to do anything but we need to understand why.I think it’s because of the capacity of the individual. Capacity to be able to accept and in certain society, the capacity is limited. And that is true to all of our problems. And some have the capacity to accept. I don’t mean accept suffering as it is but spacious enough to be able to see it, to be able to discriminate to be able to correct and some don’t. Then you have , that is one thing. Then another thing is I like to cover the ground as much as good. Then another point is again general suffering, which is the death.

1:00:09.4 And death is definitely something that we cannot avoid. Yes. I’m aware of the medical development and development of the genetic genes and somehow they can extend it and they can put the body in frozen and bring it back in 200 years or whatever it is and all of them there. And I’m not going to say it may not work. I’m going to say it will work and I have reasons. Don’t let me talk about the reasons, but the point is for practical purposes, we’ll all die. So then, what happens? What is death? How does the individual die? And why, and how you feel? These are the questions we have to see. So that death is unavoidable , simple reason, no matter whoever you might be the highly spiritually developed persons like Buddha and all of them are gone today. All military power ,all gone. I’m looking at this European history , all this Napoleon and Julius Caesar and all this . They’re all gone. And look at the Chinese emperors, this dynasty, that dynasty. Tang. Quing, Ming, all of them are gone .

So every. (not sure of word, universe? 1:02:59.2 ) is gone, really. And how you can you and I can live on? It’s not possible. It’s true, right? If you don’t think, I mean it’s no problem to accept, yeah we die but the point is, can die any minute. not only can die any minute but we are running towards dying. The 7th Dalai Lama I think said

“Tibetan 1:03:51.1 The moment you’re born, you don’t even have the right to live a minute. You’ve been running towards death. So it is an unavoidable thing. so then what happens? How do we handle that? If I’m dying. Let’s say me . it’s myself , not as here, each and everyone of us. When I die, how do I handle it? When others die, how do I handle it? And that’s another big question. And I think . I do not know whether Tibetan Buddhism contributes to that or not but talks a lot . It talks much more than the normal western talk because the knowledge of the western knowledge ends when you stop breathing. The eastern religions are supposed to be going beyond that , not only eastern religion, every religions goes beyond that I think. So the spiritual path has a little more to say than mere scientific thing. But on the other hand, the medical doctor, is he from Harvard? He teaches at Yale and Stanford and everything. I forgot his name. Normal something but anyway he wrote the book called “How We Die”. ( I looked up the name Sherwin Nuland-JD) He told me I haven’t yet to shake hands with someone who came back from Bardo. And so, once I do that, then I know how to explain, and there’s certainly no explanation on that. (laughs)

1:07:04.7 He literally told me we have a lot of information on this. But we don’t have scientific information on that. And scientific, meaning no matter whoever the person is experimenting, wherever the place is maintaining, If one works with one, it should work with others, all 100 different people. This one doesn’t, and that’s why they say, we have this information. It’s not wrong but they’re not scientific. So there is no scientific information but in a lot of religions, people talk about it and a lot of people who returned from the near death experience and what we call return from death in Tibetan like in 17 different biographies. I have seen it. So whatever it may be, we would like to know exactly what happens if I die. what do I do? If I see another die, what can I do ? So what disturbs me if I die? What kind of mind will disturb me? William Burroughs called me from Kansas to Ann Arbor and asked me,”Will the addictions hold me back?” I took it literally, the addiction, as he smoked all the time. He smoked pot all the time . William Burroughs, very famous poet right?

1:10:07.8 It is normal language, smoke pot, smoke weed, smoke grass , which means, hashish, right? (laughter) I can see you have no education . Good thing or bad thing. I don’t know. So I told him the pot will not disturb you. However the addiction to anger, the addiction to jealousy and all these, will definitely disturb you. So Burroughs was quiet. The telephone went silent for awhile. Then Allen Ginsberg told me this time, just 3 days ago in NY, he said Burroughs gets very angry. That’s why he was silent. The reason he was silent, I didn’t know. Because Burroughs gets really irritated, he said. So that’s it and there are certain emotions like anger , attachment, and hatred . These type of emotions addiction to those emotions will definitely make people’s lives miserable when they die.

1:12:45.3 And generally, I also notice and people who have been nice and kind and good person in life, will always have a better way of going. But the person who’s doing something wrong always has difficulty at the time of going. One example I was in Delhi 10 years ago. A friend of mine who is the head Lama of Ladakh and presently he’s the Indian ambassador to Mongolia called Pogola Rimpoche. And he was a member of parliament at that time of the Indian government. And one Tibetan Nepali mixed guy who is the benefactor. I forgot this guy’s name now, quite a well known guy. Anyway, he was dying in Delhi, in the hospital and he’s having a terrible nightmare. In the Tibetan tradition, we sort of bring the image of the Buddha, or picture of the Buddha, or picture of the Guru or pictures of the Deities, or things like that. We bring them to near the dying person. And the reason why we do this, we try to engage the focus of the dying person to one of those levels.

1:15:36.7 So that, the person dies while focusing on the Buddha, or the person dies wile thinking about the Guru, the person dies while thinking about the Yidam. That’s the reason why we try to interlink the thoughts because just because if you can see it picture. And this fellow, they could never bring the Buddha image in his bedroom, or whatever, the hospital room. Because he had the hallucination, saying that the Buddha jumping off the altar and all the Buddhas coming out of the walls and smashing him, crushing him. And when he was well, he was a big smuggler. And big smuggler in Nepal. He smuggled all different images out of temple. I was even told he sold an image of a big temple in Nepal to a British collector , with images in the temple. And the way they do it, they take the collectors there and they show it to them, then they will make a deal, take 50% payment in advance . They steal it and do something and ship out and deliver them somewhere outside Nepal. That’s what they do. I was told that’s what they do. So this fellow sold one image of one temple to a British collector. He is not yet delivered that. And so in order to deliver that, he tried to what he did, he invited the Karmapa, the big Lama at that time. The Karmapa . He invited The Karmapa to Nepal.

1:18:42.4. And he had a big show going with the Karmapa, you know huge, 1,000 people moving around and doing all sorts of things, going from temple to temple and taking the Karmapa around. Luckily, he did not steal the image before, when the Karmapa was there, you know, really lucky that. And he dropped the Karmapa at the airport and took the same car and went to the village and tried to take that image off. And all sorts of people went there, and tried to take it off and they couldn’t take it off. It was grounded so much they couldn’t take it out. And they digged and digged, everything, and couldn’t get it out. Finally they cut it with an electrical saw. And it took a long time. And by that time, somehow, the temple keeper got free and he started ringing the bell. The whole (can’t make out word,-“ religious”? )

1:20:23.7 came in. They couldn’t skip. So they arrested him, and he was put in Nepalese jail. So he’s taking any advantage anyway he can. That maybe how he came in contact with Krishnagopola maybe, you know . Try to get him out of Nepalese jail. So, whatever it is. Anyway, so that’s the result of it. When he was dying, he was seeing all these images jumping on him. So, while he was dying I got a letter from Krishnagopala in Delhi, with 50 rupees in it and saying this is what’s happening with this man, and please pray for him. I jokingly replied back to Krishnabokola. (not sure if i’m hearing the name correctly-

1:21:42.3) saying the 50 rupees is not a heavy enough weight amount to pull him out. So anyway, that’s what happens. And there are other people I’ve seen dying where they’re hearing music. When people die, there’s a lot of confusion, some hallucinations too. All the time. Even those people who die very peacefully. They also, this one, they’re hearing music, or chanting of Tantric college monks . At the same time, they may say, “Where’s his wife? He says, we have to catch a plane. She’s not ready. We’re going to be late. We’re going to miss the plane.” You know, things like that going on. So, whatever it may be, whatever you do during the lifetime, it has tremendous effect on how your mind’s going to celebrate that moment. And what we have to do for the dying person is provide the spacious , the space to the people to accept. Of course, the dying person freaks out quite often .

1:24:04.1 But people who are near there, should be able to take that. It’s all right for him or her to freak out and we get freaked out. When we lose our job we get freaked out. When we lose our house, we get freaked out. When we lose our companion, we freak out. Not only freak out, we remain in long face for a long time. You hear me? Long face, long time . iI’s really true, but then this poor dying person is losing everything, by losing his job, losing his companion, losing his. old bank balance, losing everything. Even the body. So little bit, ___(can’t hear word-

1:25:37.1) is Ok . So provide the space , be able to accept, like if you can like a sky type of space, where you can have good, bad and everything. Can be, come out, and can be acceptable. We used to say, you know there are some earlier teachers used to say in the monastery ,these great monasteries like Drepung, or Sera or these sort of big monasteries where 10,000 monks are there. You know, some people do funny things and they used to say these great monasteries are like an ocean. There are a lot of good things, but also funny things and bad things, all of them there but it’s the quality of the monastery to accept them, you know. Whether the monastery accepted everything or not, but I think we have to provide a space to be able to accept all this with the dying people. Then, of course, you have assure them . It’s going to be OK.