Archive Result

Soundfile 19950926GRTGG.mp3

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location ?

Topic Perfection of Wisdom

Transcriber Sally Tittmann

Date 11/ /2022

Good evening. We’re talking TAYATA GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SOHA. So basically, what we talked earlier, we explained a little bit what is TAYATA: Like This. Like what? Like the absolute reality and the true emptiness is not a separation from that of interdependent relationship. The meaning of emptiness, to be able to be able to found from the interdependent relationship, and the meaning of interdependent relationship to be able to be found in emptiness. I also made it clear what does seeing emptiness mean? But I don’t think I made that clear. But what I did make clear was, seeing emptiness directly and seeing emptiness indirectly. Seeing emptiness directly here actually means you don’t see yourself as the watcher watching the emptiness as something other than yourself, or other than the object that you are focusing on.

4:26

I gave the example of water, of honey as the same taste, and all this. What I did not give you an example, which I should have given you, is like water into water, and like milk into milk. These are the basic examples of seeing emptiness directly. So, when you say TAYATA, “like this”, it is that.

Then you have GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SOHA. There is five of them. TAYATA GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI. So each one of those five …

OK, I’m not sure what I said earlier. I think I did the quality of the teacher, or the author who gives this. Quality is the quality of the buddha. (I don’t think there’s anything wrong if I repeat.) The quality of the buddha is not because the buddha is enlightened, or any of that sort. But the teaching that the buddha gave is totally based on his true understanding and true development, and that’s why buddha is considered a great master. (TIBETAN) And that is the quality of the teacher.

The quality of the teaching is two qualities. The quality of the direct teaching and the indirect teaching. Or rather, it should say here, hidden teaching. There are two different things. Indirect teaching and hidden teaching is actually two different things. Indirect teaching normally means, even you read very carefully the direct teaching and you think about it, and you can get understanding what they are talking about, and that is called indirect teaching — though the word doesn’t convey the direct meaning or direct message. Whatever the word conveys that is the direct message is direct teaching. Indirect teaching means, the word doesn’t convey directly, however you can keep on thinking, analyzing, and doing it, you get the meaning, and that is called indirect teaching.

7:51

Hidden teaching is more than that. It is actually hidden, so you can’t really get it, whether directly or indirectly. Hidden teaching is, no matter how much you analyze or do, you will not get the message at all, but you do need a teacher, from an unbroken lineage, with a teacher who tries to give you, they have more than this meaning. These are called the hidden teachings. You find them in the Tibetan teaching a lot. They say, Oh, direct teaching, indirect teaching, hidden teaching, and then they will interpret a lot. Hidden teaching really doesn’t mean it was hidden in the trees or rocks or something. That is a different issue altogether. But basically, the real true hidden teaching really is, the teaching which has the perfect meaning; however will never be figured out by word or by commentaries alone. You will never be able to find out. And that’s called hidden teaching.

9:45

So this particular GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SOHA has a direct meaning and a hidden meaning too. The direct meaning is nothing but emptiness. It will tell you only emptiness. Emptiness is the true reality of all existence, whatever it is. Every existence: human beings, non-human beings, articles, whatever it is, in the reality, it is emptiness. Like we have, in those of you who remember the yamantaka teachings, we have

TIBETAN

So what it is really telling you is, the nature of reality of all phenomena is the nature of Manjushri. The Manjushri is the wisdom. You remember all this. And there is nothing going, nothing is coming, and we give the example of the moon shining and there’s a thousand different reflections coming together, yet the moon does not really have to be a thousand different moons. All these examples we talked about. That is really talking about the nature of reality.

11:43

So the essence of the nature of reality of emptiness, there is really no difference. The enlightened beings’ essence, and non-enlightened beings essence. The emptiness is emptiness. One emptiness, actually. One emptiness.

However, that doesn’t mean we are all one person. So that sort of giving the message of emptiness, within the direct encounter with that emptiness, and there is no physical form, sound, smell, taste, touch, all of those, all of them, while you are directly concentrating on emptiness you don’t have that. There is no dualistic. There is no extra one. So it is only when you are focused, you are — click! — focussed on the subject on which whatever you are shooting with this camera, is focussed right, there is no two unfocused things there, and that is what they mean, focused on emptiness. It’s the direct, the quality or meaning of this mantra. But indirectly, what they tell you indirectly is they tell you 5 different stages: alright, if this is the direct method, how does one get there? How do I know where I am? How do I know what I’m doing, what level I am? How do I get there? How do I get it? So then they give you 5 different stages. And everywhere, wherever you look, any buddhist teachings, they will teach 5 paths, whether it is hinayana, mahayana, vajrayana — no vajrayana’s slightly different, I can’t say that, really. But hinayana, mahayana, sarvakayana or prochikayana, or buddhayana. That is really truly three yanas. In the west they count hinayana, mahayana, vajrayana, they call it three yanas. But that really doesn’t mean it. What it really means is, sarvakayana, parchikayana, buddhayana: three yanas.

All these three yanas are basically, How does an individual get on the level? It’s the five levels. 5 different spiritual standards. Once you get some kind of spiritual standard, then you get one of those 5. And the five doesn’t come together. It has to come one, the second has to come on the basis of the other.

Now I remember. I gave you the other day the example of the matchlock, and they have to keep on rubbing it in order to get heat. The more you rub, you get fire spark, and then the fire will burn. I gave you that example. Now I recollect.

That is basically 5 paths. These 5 paths is the hidden explanation of this GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI.

So how does that work? GATE is the fist path, which is called Path of Accumulation, right? Why is it called Path of Accumulation? In this level, you have no understanding of the path itself at all. Here it is the only path. When you are talking about the path, you are talking about wisdom, emptiness alone.

16:27

You are not talking about bodhimind, love-compassion, and all this. In this level, we are talking emptiness only. I remember now: I sad the bodhimind and compassion and all this are not counted. I don’t mean they are not counted in one’s life and in one’s practice. I mean at this moment, about this particular word. Because somebody else later called me or talked to me or wrote — I forgot — saying, “You said it’s not counted. But I thought Buddhism is based on love and compassion.” Maybe somebody told me that. She misunderstood what I am saying. What I’m saying is, it’s not counted when we’re talking about this particular mantra and what they are talking about. I don’t mean it’s not counted in practice in general. It’s very much counted. It is the foundation. However, you go to this level. The first level, you have no idea about wisdom at all. However, you have opportunity to be able to accumulate inner merit to be able to get it, or to be able to understand. To understand emptiness is not something which you can study and get, alone. This is so important. That is the difference between the academic study and the spiritual here. There’s a difference. It is any subject, it is material scientific, or anything, you can study, and work it out, and you can get it. But at the spiritual level here, it is one more step beyond that. You have to have inner accumulation of merit also, which means you have to be lucky enough to get it. Otherwise you’re not going to get it.

So the Path One is the path of accumulation. Accumulating merit and purifying. It is the period of contemplation, where you can purify negativity, where you can collect the merit to be able to see that real wisdom within the individual. And that is Path One.

19:31

So that is why Path one is called Accumulation of Merit.

So how does the Buddha present it here. It says, GATE. It means Gone. So “gone.” What does that mean? Gone. It means somebody’s gone, or goes, or going, all of those.

It reminds me of a joke. Geshe Tsutim Gyentse (??) — we called him the LA Lama, remember — when he was in London, I believe, about 20 years ago, and he wanted to know — he was in a place called Sussex and he was visiting London. So he wanted to know whether the bus that goes to Sussex. — was gone? is going to go? or has already gone? or what happened. So I think he was dressed as a monk at that time. So there’s nobody, except one lade, on the bus stand, and she’s sitting there, and Geshe-la wanted to ask her that, and he doesn’t know how to do it, so he moved near her, and she moved a little bit farther, and he moved a little bit farther, then she’s so, “hey, what’s going on? Who’s this strange-looking man, what is it?” So then Geshe-la suddenly opened his mouth and said — he’s thinking past, present and future — so he said, “Busses to Sussex gone, gone, going!” She ran. So that came into my head.

So: gone, gone, going. All three work here. So I’ll explain to you later, ok? But, when you say go, or gone, automatically, we have to think. who is going? from where to where? and how?

Let it be me. I am going. But where am I? And to where am I going to go? And how do I go? So: GATE, the first GATE even, gives you the message of the Four Noble Truths. The Four Noble Truths and the Five Paths is the hidden message from this GATE GATE PARAGATE. The first message itself says, Gone (or going). Where am I? I am here, perhaps stuck. Stuck in the midst of unending, continuing problem. Unending, continuing problem. You get the message. It’s all about samsara and all this. Unending, continuing mess, in which I am stuck. But what message Buddha was giving: Don’t get stuck! There is a way out. Keep on going. So, going, go. To where? To a freedom. To a free of all these problems.

24:16

Will that be just a freedom enough? Free of all the pain? Buddha says no. That is ordinary nirvana, and it is not good for you (in these particular cases). It is not good for you. Go beyond that. Go to the free of not only the pain but the cause of the pain, and even the imprint of the cause of the pain. Go beyond that. So that is why the first Go is even asking the individual, introducing the ultimate enlightenment is [something] human beings can achieve and you have to go there. That gives you — each one of them gives you the Four Noble Truths. The first Noble Truth, on this level, is the actual problems in which we are stuck, that is Suffering. However people may think, I have no suffering, it is totally not true. We do. Each and every one of us. One thing or another. We have suffering, problems. Giving hardship to each other. Giving hardship to your parents. Parents giving you hardship. Even if you don’t think about illness and dying and all this, but basically we have all this. That is actually where we are. And going to is that level.

And what makes you to be here? We talk normally — now here it is slightly different, if you notice — we talk normally, oh it is the ignorance and the delusions and all this. True, no question. But here in this particular case, when you talk about GATE GATE, at this level, you not only introduce those delusions and all this, but specifically you point out attachment. Attachment which makes you think something is great which in reality is actually suffering. In reality it might be true suffering but somehow you might think it is the greatest thing that happened in the world, the greatest excitement in the world, or greatest excitement that I can have. But then you do have that attachment of longing, sticking, holding it, not letting it go, holding it. You know, all this. That very attachment is the actual glue to keep the individual continuously remain in this particular point. So here when we talk about cause, we specifically figure to this particular attachment. Attachment which some how… We have attachment for money, attachment for wealth, attachment for whatever… body, yours or others’, whoever, whatever. So attachment for samsaric joy which ultimately gives us a problem rather than a solution, which somehow we will seek, and longing, and holding it, and willing to suffer one after another, no matter how much pain you have to go through, yet you still digging it, longing for it, working it, holding it. And that is the attachment, particularly in this case, which makes the individual to continuously remain in samsara. So the first GATE’s Second Noble Truth is especially emphasized for attachment.

29:28

Looking now at life. How much we are willing to suffer with attachment. No one can bear pain as much as attachment makes you to bear pain. Nothing can make you do that. But attachment does. Physically, mentally, emotionally, we hold. Whatever the pain may be. How many times it may repeat, you couldn’t care less. Keep on repeating it. Very familiar thing, one after another, is because of that. And that particularly is emphasized here.

Then the Fourth Truth, on this first GATE — and all the GATEs anyway; it’s the same thing — The Fourth Truth here is only the wisdom is counted. No others. It is actually each one of us, really getting freedom is the wisdom. No other can deliver the freedom except wisdom. Nothing can deliver. Nothing. No matter how much compassion you have, no matter how much love, no matter how much ultimate Bodhimind you may have — I can’t say ultimate bodhimind, ultimate bodhimind will become absolute bodhimind which is again wisdom. But from the point of love-compassion cannot. The only way that the individual can become free is the wisdom. That’s why, in this particular path of the Fourth Noble Truth is the path is counted. It is only wisdom.

Related to that wisdom — it may not be direct true wisdom, but it looks like it, focussed on the same point, trying to bring the same result, it may be counted as like within “etc.”. Otherwise, people will say, “I don’t have wisdom at all. I’m not getting it. So therefore I don’t have the Fourth Noble Truth at all. So don’t make us feel bad. You put it within “etc.” Focus on the same way, it’s sort of counted in that.

33:01

So the result is the mahayana point of view. It is only the Buddha level is recommended, arhat level is what we call ordinary enlightenment, which is not really recommended, because Vajrayana buddhism, or mahayana buddhism will tell you don’t settle for less than the best.

That’s what it is. That’s why the Fourth is always referring to the total enlightenment level. GATE.

Now we have to talk a little bit about this particular path. Whether we are there or not is a big question: each and every individual will know. Another thing I have to talk here. What about the great Lam Rim? Lam Rim, common with the lower level, common with the medium level, common with the mahayana path. What is all this about? Where is it going to go within this GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SOHA? The answer here is talking about appreciation of life, talking about impermanence, gross impermanence, subtle impermanence… all of them are cause to be able to receive, to be able to see the true path. So it is the powerful translation in which the individual can be moved from the sleeping point. It is very interesting. The traditional example given here: if you are in prison, and you don’t know what that means, and you don’t know that it’s bad. You don’t know that somebody will come and torture you or something. You have no idea. And you still go on sleeping. And then some kind person will come and say hey! don’t keep on sleeping there, because you are never going to get out. If you don’t get out of here, you’re going to have tremendous suffering and tremendous pain, and then it will be too late for you. So he gives you the message.

And I used to think a different way. I used to think, if you’re stuck under a dictator or communist Chinese rule or something, if you are stuck in Tibet under a communist Chinese rule, particularly a cultural revolution or something, during that period where everybody is put in jail and tortured and all this, think that you’re stuck there, and you still don’t know. You do know you’re stuck but you don’t know what to do, or you don’t even know you’re stuck. So you keep on sleeping there. And then all of a sudden somebody says Hey, how can you sleep like this? You should move. You should run away. You should go to some kind of free place. Run away to freedom!

37:00

I will show you how you can run away. I will help to transport you. You know, we see in the movies all the time what had happened during World War II. That style, if somebody gives you that message, and when you get that message, it’s a great message, and it gives you a tremendous inspiration, it wakes you up. And that is basically appreciation of life, impermanence, even almost taking refuge level, all of them will push you to that level, that is the powerful transition where you can really make it. It is the point where you can choose freedom or [living under a] dictator’s rule.

For the people over here, it doesn’t make much sense. But for us, it makes tremendous sense, because I escaped from Tibet. So it makes sense. So, it’s a way out. That’s what it does. If you don’t take this message, you get the message, but still you’re stuck to your little warm bed, and you don’t wake up, and you still would like to sleep another 10 minutes more, or another 20 minutes more, keep on sleeping, and not getting up, and keep on doing that, then, no matter what message you get, it is useless. You do have a message, you do have a powerful inspiration, you do have a powerful way out, but still you are stuck with this and you don’t want to wake up. You still would like to sleep.

And Buddha gives an example for that.

KOR KA MA …. TIBETAN!

So you think that maybe it’s a great comfort, but in reality, you’re going to suffer tremendously. It is like that of a needle point. Wherever you go, whichever direction the needle point points, it’s not going to be comfortable. It’s going to poke you. Or like that of a tick, sleeping in the middle of the manure. You keep on sleeping, and you sleep, but you’re totally full of shit, and you’re sleeping in there, and you’re not going to wake up, because you are still attached for that little sleeping and you keep on sleeping. And that’s exactly the example that the traditional teachings give you.

40:02

So in the Lam Rim, when you take out those that are common with the lower level, and the medium level, are actually, it is the powerful… it’s like when the swimmers jump in the swimming pool, and you do have some diving board, and the spring, which throws you up, and that gives you a power-boosting jumping power. Just like that, the basic, common with the medium and the lower level, should be providing the individual the springboard which will be able to give you power — and it is tremendous power, actually — to be able to really dive into the water. And that’s what they should do. But it’s not an actual path, in this case. Until you find the path of emptiness, you are not on the path — according to this, direct or hidden explanation of GATE GATE PARAGATE. So even at the GATE level, though it is the path, because it is called the Path of Accumulation, it is the first path out of five paths, but even then it is not an actual path. It is not considered that. You are on the path because you are having a tremendous boost. So actually, the Lam Rim level, all this, should be able to get individuals to be able to work for this. So, the Path of Accumulation. GATE.

Second GATE is the Path of Action. Now you move one stage. In this particular path, the first path, you don’t have anywhere you are knowing, though it is divided into three, as small, medium and big. It is divided into three categories, but forget about it. Don’t even think about it. It is unnecessarily confusing for not. Don’t even think about it. But whatever it is, you really don’t have a way of judging where you are. But the Lam Rim level will give you where you are, whatever you are, what you are doing, and how you are getting it. The Lam Rim level will give you some understanding, but within the path itself you have no way of judging.

43:26

However, in the Path of Action, which is divided into four — remember? : heat, peak, patience, and best dharma — anyway, the four divisions of that is — forget about it — look at the Path of Action as one. So, the Path of Action is also called NI KI CHO TUN. NI KI CHO TUN is actually not seeing, but it looks like seeing. “Looks like Seeing Path.” Here you begin to have a basic understanding of, Oh, what is this wisdom? What is this emptiness? How does the relationship between the interdependent relationship and emptiness work? You begin to get some understanding at this level. It looks like actual, but it is not actual, but you do have some understanding. So that is the Path of Action. You can take some action. So it is the Path of Action here. So when you begin to understand, first understanding comes from learning all this. So, you are seeing, you are getting some idea of emptiness, and whenever you focus on that, you see the emptiness as over there: that’s her emptiness, this is his emptiness, that is this emptiness, that’s that emptiness. You see the emptiness as corresponding to the relative being and its nature you see that way. We call that dualistic. You are really seeing two separate realities: your emptiness, my emptiness, his emptiness, I’m the watcher, I’m watching all different types of emptiness. Or even emptiness is there, I’m here: I’m looking at emptiness. All this. This is what dualistic really means.

When you get the path level, when you have gone beyond, then it is PARAGATE. How do you translate that? Gone, gone, gone beyond. The word Beyond comes. What is beyond? Beyond of this side and that side. Traditional teachings will give you … in Tibet there are a lot of mountains. The mountains divide this side and that side, right? And also rivers. You are there, I am here. That side, this side. Division of that either by a river, or by a mountain. Or by whatever line you draw. There is nothing permanent. It is impermanent. It is emptiness. It is dependent. The dependent, this side and that side are dependent on each other. If you don’t have that side, you can’t have this side. Wherever you draw it. You just bring a chalk and cut a line in the middle, and say this side and that side. It will become this side and that side. It shows you actually how flexible it is.

So, gone beyond means beyond from the ordinary to extraordinary. Why is it called extraordinary? Because from here, PA BA … TIBETAN!

48:01

“From here, no more illness. No more aging. Suffering of illness, aging, uncontrolled death: all are totally free.” And that’s the line that’s been gone beyond. And that’s why this side and that side. That’s why it’s called gone beyond. So, until you get beyond, you’re on this side. What happened on this side, is our views are limited. No matter how great scientifically we can see it, feel it, and touch it, and even understand it, no matter, but still we will be limited. We are only limited to be able to see this side only. That’s because of our karma. No one can change. Until you get out of this, no one can see it. That’s the curtain was drawn. The mystery show is coming from the other side. So we could never solve the mystery of life, because the play is going on from the other side of the curtain.

49:32

Or even this side. It is within you but we don’t see it. It is off limits. So we can’t solve it. The great masters will say, Ho, I have burst the basis of the ultimate lie. All of them are referring to this. The moment you get in to the other side you are free of all this. I don’t mean negative karmas, but the dualistic delusions you get over. That’s why it’s called beyond. Gone beyond.

You will also see total emptiness, directly. Directly here means no separation. Water into water, milk into milk. You cannot separate. So you are no longer the watcher. You are part of it. You are totally becoming part of it. No separation comes. That’s why it’s called non-dualistic. It might not be union. Union is still beyond that level. It is not union. It is non-dualistic. And that very perception of true nature, there is nothing else happening. Totally focussed is the direct wisdom with cuts the root of all trouble.

I should stop here. Did you get it? Or have I completely gone over your head? Keep on thinking, keep on analyzing, because it’s very simple: you don’t have to think so much. Just, GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SOHA. That’s what it is.

52:42

(Talk about new space in NY…)

Questions:

56:25

Q: You were talking about once you experience non-duality, you see the emptinesses… Do you ever go back to perceiving in a dualistic way? Do you just see it and then go back to experiencing mostly dualism and then you go gradually back and forth?

GR: It’s not like a glimpse of your experience that you get through drugs or chemicals. It is not like that. This is because of the meditative experience, so it lasts long, and however you want to stay there, and you wake up from that sitting, and then you call it JE TOP, which is what you get afterwards. There will be a little difficulty of adjusting, sometimes the walls move or you go through them or something, but somehow you have to learn how to adjust to it.

Go through walls, yes. Or the walls move. They expand or something. That really happens. I’m not even joking. You pick that up and you have to adjust. It takes a couple of times just to adjust properly. You can go back to the same old thing again.

Q: Do you ever see dualism as being your primary reality, or having experienced this emptiness, or touching emptiness, do you always keep that?

GR: You keep that all the time. But perceiving of the relative world is also there. You don’t lose that.

Q: It doesn’t become a prime…?

GR: No. Everything’s not a big deal. That’s what happens. When they say it’s no big deal, they say what is a big deal? That’s what happens.

Q: You said that once you went to that point, you weren’t free of negative karma at that point. You touched emptiness and you had a different perception of your daily reality, but you’re not free yet of negative karma. This doesn’t automatically purify your negative karma?

GR: Yes it does. Well, you do have negative karma. But very little negative karma will be left. Really. But you are not enlightened. That is a problem. A lot of people think— books are written! — well-respected professors, saying that if you have seen emptiness, you have become enlightened. It is total bullshit. It’s not. You have seen emptiness. The emptiness that you have seen at the Seeing Level and emptiness that fully enlightened beings see there is no difference. However, you are not enlightened. The example given here is a bird flying in the air. There is no road; however there is measurement.

1:00

When the bird flies in the air, there is no path or road which they can follow, however they can measure it, and see what level they have reached. The measurement on the ground: they have covered the country or a city or town or gone beyond a river. So then what happened is again, the measurement is taken by the method part of it. The method part, compassion and all this other part will become the measurement. So what’s happening is the emptiness that you see at the Seeing Level and the emptiness that you see when you are enlightened is the same emptiness. However the measurement of the relative path is missing. That’s why the bird has one path. There is no separate path; however the measurement has to be done on the ground.

Is that your question? I didn’t even get your question. I thought of my own question and answered it.

Q: I guess there was some confusion between emptiness and the enlightened state, because I was wondering, the thing about negative karma, even though you might be in a state where there’s no more illness or no more death, but..

GR: Because there’s no more cause available.

Q: But you’re still purifying leftover negative karma so you can …

GR: Imprint.

Q: …still get sick.

GR: Well, there’s a little question on that. There’s still some left, yes. It’s not free. But still a little bit is left. But not a big deal at all. After that, nothing is a big deal. It’s true.

Q: A couple of us were talking the other night and wondering what the Tibetan word is for shunyata.

GR: TONGYI . STONG NYID I don’t know how to spell it.

TIBETAN…

Emptiness. Emptiness itself. Emptiness. Or suchness.

It arises because emptiness seems like such a bad translation from the Sanskrit.

GR: There are a number of great Hinduologists Buddhalogists Tibetologists and …

Q: When you reach the Path of Seeing you go to make an escape ??? you see emptiness from a meditative way, and then adjust it when you actually get up and start functioning in relative reality… There’s a difference between that and at the Buddha level? Does the Buddha have to make an adjustment too? Or is his state more of a constant being able to juxtapose emptiness and relativity constantly?

GR: Afterwards, relativity is there but it is not so solid as it used to be. Actually, it is the solution to all our problems. Fears… Everything. Emotions. It is really the solution. Once you’re out of there you are a different person. Totally. The things that you perceived before and act and function and perceive after and act and function… To the other person it might not seem that different. To you it is a big difference. No longer solid you see it. You almost see the substance of every little sheaf (?) or collection of dust or something, rather than the solid nice little polished piece.

1:06

But you don’t lose the relativity. If you lose it you have gone to extreme.

Q: You mentioned that the difference between the Path of Seeing and Enlightenment that the emptiness perceived is the same, but for the Buddha there are all these levels of detaching and so forth. However, for the shamatas

and the pratyekas the difference between the Seeing Path and the No More Learning Path is that simply a matter of effort and effortlessness? Or is there something else?

GR: Something else. At the end of the Meditation Path, there is something called GOM YUNG PRATZITA GU TING TZE ??? Vajra-like — I don’t know whether it is vajrayana influence or not… — it is a vajra-like meditative path. At the end of those nine levels of meditative path, or the Path of Meditation. The fourth Path. And each one of those nine levels, there is a direct opponent which has to be cleared, so it is not the imprint of the delusions but however, some kind of subtle delusions, they still have to be freed. So it is still Shamata and Pratchika, it is still not the same.

1:08

The bird and the sky example is applicable to all three yanas. Maybe we are talking over the head of everybody. Maybe we should cut that out.

If I talk over your head, I’m sorry. I’ll try to talk under next week!