Archive Result

11

1Soundfile 19980904GRSR

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location ??

Topic Buddhist Psychology

Transcriber Vicki Cahill

Date July 12 2021

I. I don’t have much thing to say, because you’ve been hearing whole day. Right? Whole day and night. And so I really don’t have much thing to say here. And, and I better started thanking everybody. And. Because then I don’t know the last. You know, we have been very active this time. Very Busy. We even forgot to send that. Did we send it? How you feel. What you want to improve and all this question. You already sent it?

Audience: They’re in the packet

Rimpoche: Oh. They’re already in packet. Ok. Oh. They’re more efficient than even my thought. Because you know. Because of previous years, the questionings and your answers always improve our next time. That’s why it’s been very helpful. And I wanted to thank everybody. I’m sorry I pushed Chris today. I said, “Sing right now.” And so I’m sorry (applause, can’t hear 0:01:08.4) .I do hope you’ll sing again tomorrow. And everybody, really. I really want to thank everybody. It’s doing so good. Alright. So. Now, do we have anybody has any questions that you’d like to raise. Ed?

Ed: What is the puja for tomorrow? Empowering.

Rimpoche: Well. Ok. The question is he says, tomorrow’s puja. Oh yeah. Thank you for raising that question. Tomorrow morning, the White Tara practice. You people can get up, like usual, come down where the fire puja is. Seven thirty. And start your own usual prayer, there in silent. And join us with the OM TARE TUTTARE TURE SOHA. The fire puja’s going to go at that time. We probably hope to be there by six. But they’ve been working so hard. The. I don’t know what do you, to call the monks and ex-monks. Our group. Our club member. This exclusive club members. Been working so hard and you know, even today, I’m not sure whether some of you might have recognized, or some of you might not have recognized. By the time when lunch was over, we’re supposed to go down. Sonam and I walked down and I saw that yellow thing going on. That yellow tablecloth. I said today is supposed to be red day, but why are you doing the yellow? When you went down. Everything ready for the yellow. The drawings, sand mandala, everything. So. Within a matter of forty minutes they removed everything. Take them down. Take all sand mandala down. Put new one. And it was done. So, I think. (applause) I think Lusia(?)0:03:42.9 took picture but I don’t, I don’t think she saw the earlier one but she came almost when the new one’s starting. So, she came in. But earlier, they all, they had to take everything down. And then within certain amount of forty minutes. Took the old one down. Put the new one up. That’s why you saw those directions are moving. That’s the reason why.

0:04:06.3 So. So, tomorrow we’d like to do the prosperity part of it. So, Jewel Heart probably needs some prosperity. So. If you don’t have prosperity, we’ll be, be, what do you call this? Nomads. Good old Tibetan nomad style. So. So, prosperity thing. And we’re doing through Tara, today’s Hayagriva. Tomorrow through Tara. So, we do early in the morning. So, that morning Tara practice session, you people can chant mantra and do. That’ll be around there. I hope it’s not too cold. If it’s too cold, bring some blankets. And if you’re too warm, then you can take them off. Ok. That’s that going to be added. That answer your question or not?

Ed: Yeah. I wondered if you comment maybe on today’s a little bit.

Rimpoche: Well, about the fire puja, I explained the other day.

Ed: Yeah

Rimpoche: So, it’s almost the same. The purpose is totally; the first day it was peace. And, and today it’s to be able to stabilized. When I say power, power really doesn’t mean, “you conquer me. I conquer you.” That, not that power. But power is to be able to stabilize. And sort of settle down. Stabilize. That’s why this power base. Normally fire puja is done on the four activities; peaceful, prosperity, power and wrathful. The wrathful is almost like exorcism type of thing. So, it is a little dangerous and you’re supposed to do only at the middle, in the middle of the night and things like that. And, so but, the rituals are almost the same. The mantras are different yidams you use at that level. And almost the same thing what I explained the other day. Nothing more. The major emphasize what means/mays0:06:34.6 for purification and peaceful ones, the peaceful business. And power is to stabilize and to be steady and to be sort of grounded. That’s the for power. And prosperity is prosperity. So, let’s hope the stock markets will go up a little bit. And when Robert has been predicting. What did you say? Rather scarefully, he cracked up. Sunday, didn’t you tell me in the morning? And I said, that was air Chrysler. Huh?

Audience: I said skillfully and scarily

Rimpoche: Scarily

Audience: Scarily.

0:07:13.4 Rimpoche: Scarily. He said, correct. So, he’s been protecting. He’s being predicting. I said, protecting. Right? Protecting.

Audience: Predicting

Rimpoche: Many other things. Earthquakes and then the Moneyla(?)0:07:30.6 business came up. So. It’s almost getting there. So. So, now let’s hope to be able to stable. Stabilized now. By this. I mean, somehow, we planned this and did not know. I didn’t talk to Robert. There’s no. Did not know it’s going to be almost rough like that week. But for us, we quite good (laughs) But the whole world has very rough time and going. But we planned those fire pujas on the basis of certain rimpoches and been urging from India for, like a couple of months. So. So, that’s why they’re, that’s why we planned it already. And it worked out in that manner. So, I hope we have, it some help. That’s it. But. That’s it. So, better go on your dharmic practical practice questions, if you have. Dimitri.

Dimitri: . Since Dan and Tara were talking a lot this morning about the benefits of mindfulness. And you know we had Jack from the Theravadin tradition also talking about mindfulness. I was wondering if you could talk about mindfulness a little bit in terms of daily practice, since general, in my experience, it hasn’t been emphasized that much as far as the vipassana tradition. You know, watching the breath is not something that you emphasize that much in my experience. So, I was wondering if you could talk about how we either might integrate that into Lam Rim or any kind of practice or not. And why not. Or, you know, just sort of your thoughts about mindfulness meditation in general and daily practice.

0:09:38.8 Rimpoche: Mindful, mindful, what do you call it? Mindful, mindfulness. Mindfulness practice is very much within the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. If you look into this thirty-seven Wings of the Buddha. What do you call it? Thirty-seven wings of Buddha. Huh?

Audience: of enlightenment.

Rimpoche: Huh?

Audience: of enlightenment

Rimpoche: Thirty-seven wings of the enlightenments. And if you look in there, the first four is mindfulness. Mindfulness. Body, feeling, mind and general phenomena awareness. So, it is very much emphasized in, in, as labelled as mindfulness. And if you don’t label as mindfulness, every practice. Every single practice. You say, compare.[(baby in background) Oh, I see. I’m sorry]. Every single points in Lam Rim. [It’s alright, you stay there. It’s ok.] Every single point, what you raise in Lam Rim, you have mindfulness there. Because, do you remember we emphasize that meditation is a tool? Analytical and concentrated mediation. The concentrated meditation is mindfulness of the, what they talk about, Theravadin tradition, which you labelled as mindfulness. Because they may, they may like to talk to you, feeling of the body and all this and that. But the, the real training on that is whatever subject or point that you’ll be able to establish by analytical meditation. Then to become it, a part of your life, or to make it part of your own. Yeah, life. Yeah. And your normal, usual, habit or tool to make it the bridge between this is the mindfulness. What we call concentrated meditation. It is nothing but being mindfulness. Be mindfulness of the point, whatever you’re raising. Or focus whatever you are focus on. Whether it is, it is Buddha image, or whether it is yidam, or whether it is mandala, or whatever it is. It is. That is the mindfulness. And if you, just because you don’t label them as mindfulness. And then throw it doesn’t really mean you are not using mindfulness at all. Is that clear to you? Make sense to you. And does that make sense to everybody else? Or you think I didn’t say enough? What do you think?

0:13:19.3 You. No. Him.

Audience: Me?

Rimpoche: No.

Audience:….

Rimpoche: Yeah.

Audience: (quiet hard to hear) Concentrate on a point of the Lam Rim seems different to me then

Rimpoche: I’m sorry

Audience: I’m sorry. Concentration, as an example, you are offering concentration on a point of the Lam Rim, to me seems different from what they were talking about of just. Of kind of, bare awareness of experience in the moment.

Rimpoche: Yes. Yes. But what I’m saying is concentrated on the point of the Lam Rim is a mindfulness meditation. Ok. I did not say, what they’re talking is the concentration on Lam Rim. Nor I’m telling, the Lam Rim concentration is what they’re talking about it. But the technique what they’re using and the technique, the points what you’re going to gain, the stabilization of the mind is the same thing. Same purpose. That’s what it is.

Audience: Same end point or goal.

Rimpoche: I think the goal is the same. The purpose is the same. Since I am Tibetan, I have to say the Tibetan Buddhist thing is a little more superior. Because it is not only just being dealing with awareness. And you’re using the awareness along with training your mind. Not only to be able to focus and awareness, but also changing together. And that’s why it’s a little superior. That’s Tibetan propaganda. One minute. Ok. Sean.

Audience: Yeah. I was. I’ve been studying a couple of different Lam Rims over the past twenty minutes or so.

Rimpoche: (laughs)

Audience: And I wanted to know if. And I know that they have the same things in them. But is there a benefit from studying Lam Rims from many different teachers. Or is studying one over and over and over again enough.

Rimpoche: Would you repeat your last portion? Benefit of studying from what?

Audience: Is there a benefit. Is there a greater benefit from studying from, say your Lam Rim, a Lam Rim from the Dalai Lama, a Lam Rim from some, some, some, some, some. Or should, would it be, would it be more beneficial just to study one, get through it and keep studying on just one person’s Lam Rim such as yours?

0:16:14.6 Rimpoche: Well, if you study my Lam Rim, you definitely have a better benefit, because it’s from me. (laughs) Well, you know Lam Rim is Lam Rim. Doesn’t matter from whom you study. It doesn’t matter. I believe you have to study with a person, at least once. Because it is a living tradition. You just cannot take out from the book and do it. Otherwise, it doesn’t really matter from whom you ever you study. It makes no different. But the individual will choose for yourself, because whichever has been helpful to you. That is the most important. You know, it’s not that Mr. A’s Lam Rim teaching is better than Mr. C. Or the Lama B or the Lama D. Don’t call it Lama D. Sounds like Dalai Lama. So, forget it. Lama E or F or whatever. You know? So, it really doesn’t matter. And what does make difference is, which one has been helpful to you. And that’s. On that ground, you choose, rather than they choose you. I believe that’s how it is. And most important thing, whole purpose. I really don’t. I don’t know. People begin to call Lam Rim and all this. And then, you know, it is very strange thing, people call it. They don’t even know how to say Lam Rim. And just say Lam Rim. Number one. And number two, and then they, you have no idea what it is and they go and say, “What is that?” And then someone said, “Oh, it is a kind of a Buddhist philosophy cult thing.” Or a kind of this thing, that thing. And without actually knowing what it is. It is. So. So, they make a pre-judgement of what really we’re talking about it. So, that’s the reason why we chose to call Odyssey to Freedom. And if you still want to call it Lam Rim that’s fine. Yes sir? The mike is coming to you.

Audience: Rimpoche you talk about this last summer, but I’m still a little unclear. In The Odyssey to Freedom, there are sixty-four steps. Ok. When it goes to practicing, I don’t know what step I should be practicing, or for how long, or what stage I am. For example, I could spend forever practicing on the preciousness of human life, or on compassion. And then I feel, well, there are sixty other four steps, but I don’t know. I don’t know very. I don’t know what stage I am. I don’t know how to proceed. Do you know what I mean?

0:19:33.0 Rimpoche: I heard you. Yeah, you could spend whole life for precious of life. And that’s no big deal. I want to make joke, but better not. Ok. So, you know, I think I, I think I, I’m quite sure I have mentioned. And if not, I’d like to say now. What do you do is, where and how you studied this. From one to thirteen, you just need to know. And you’ve been doing it hear and there, everywhere. From thirteen to, where does this Vajrayana initiation comes in? Huh? A lot of people have them there. Fifty-seven. Ok. From thirteen to fifty-seven. And way and how you do this. What is Fifty-seven. Can you read it?

Brenda: Fifty-seven is celebrate the quality and rarity of Vajrayana.

Rimpoche: Ok. From thirteen to fifty-seven, the first thing what you do is, you try to get understand the main point, the message, the main message, whatever you’re getting. Except those Buddhist what do you call that?

Audience: Four seals

Rimpoche: Four Seals of Buddhism and all this. And except those. And just try to get a gist of the message. And go over. Sort of overviewing them. Overviewing them and so that within the short period of say, two, three, four, five minutes, and you could sort of follow it. Completely, one after the another. Without making any imprint or any dent on your mind. Just simply recognize, acknowledge and accept the points. Just go over. And you may spend for even a couple of months. Or even year or two. Just simply maybe doing that.

0:22:00.6 And once you’ve sort of comprehends that by yourself, without it looking at the piece of paper. Just going within your mind. It sort of mentally organized. Mentally it is functioning. It is working. And then you make emphasize on each point. And while you are emphasizing each point. But that period could be a year or month or whatever it is of, like, point number thirteen. When you’re emphasizing on point thirteen, you though generally, you review everything as you do every day. Yet, the emphasize, spend time to find out the point thirteen’s, what they’re trying to tell you. And analyze then. Criticize by yourself. But you use your intelligent mind. Criticize. Argue. And you read and you talk to people. And draw a conclusion. Draw a conclusion that, drawn by you with your own understanding and with your own analyzing. And with your own convincing point, draw a conclusion. Once you’ve drawn that conclusion, make sure your conclusion tallies with the teaching. If it doesn’t tally with the teaching, something is wrong somewhere. We have to find where what was wrong. Once it tallies with the message given through the teaching, then you have found subject meditation for concentrated meditation. So, you focus on that. Just focus on that. And then it becomes. It also. It make, gives you big imprint. Not only as an intellectual knowledge, and but it is becoming the part of a person. Part of a person’s character, way you function, way you think, way you live. So, this is, I believe the people are talking about bridge between the intellectual level to a practical level. That’s how you link up. You will not be able to link up unless you have the intellectual level of understanding. I think two days ago, or three days ago, I believe it is Dimitri raise a question. “Well, I do understand what they are talking about it, but how do I take it in.” Or something like that. Didn’t you? In that matter. And when you begin to see, “I do understand”, that means you’re getting some message there. But. And when you think, “I got message” and when you think, “I understood”, probably it is the beginning of the level. So, the chances are, you did not really understood.

0:25:40.1 And I’m not talking about you as individual, but generally. So, that’s why I say, your understanding, your conclusion of the point, check it against the teaching. And when it is tallied, somehow your conclusion is getting right. But do you have a convincing reason of reaching to that conclusion by your intellectual exercise, which is analytical meditation. If you simply don’t have, you’re totally relying on book information, teaching information. Or you read it, you found, you heard, then you are not. Your conclusion is superficial. There are certain points, like karmic point, where you cannot really confirm by your intellectual capacity. And what that case is different. Otherwise, most of them, if you have a convincing reason by you, then you begin to really understand. And once you begin to understand, you draw a conclusion. And your conclusion is the main point on which you will concentrate. Then it will become a part of your life. And that will be your first spiritual development. That builds up on you. That is how. That’s how the individual comes up. So, otherwise, when you talk, it is talk. It is picture, projection. It is over there. So, this morning, this afternoon, I told you. I said, “Lam Rim is brainwashing you.” Well, I don’t think brainwashing as you think, but. I mean what the English language says.. Brainwashing is not that necessarily great, you know. But on the other hand. You know, on the other hand, for somebody else told me, immediately after that somebody else came up and told me, one of the most important point in the transcripts in the AA programs. And the first thing, you become very suspicious and this and that. “You’re all brainwashed.” And blah, blah, blah. And all this, and then they say, yeah. You. Yes, you brainwash yourself. But you, you brainwashed by yourself. So, I think that’s a very important point. The Lam Rim is the same thing. You do brainwash. It is brainwash. But brainwashing has to be done by you, for yourself. Not by third person. Or second person.

0:28:27.5 We’ve been able to provide you the information for sort of flashing, throwing some information. And then the second thing is, you’re looking at it. You like it or dislike it. Or “What the hell is this?” Or, you know, whatever it is. And begin to look around. Sometime you hate it, reject it, to walk around a couple of blocks and come back and looking once again. Well, slightly different. And you may like it. You may like to pick up and twist and turn around. And picked it up, throw it around, and walk away. Or you know, then pick up again. Do all this. And finally, what’s happening is, you’re getting it. You know, pick up. It’s only, pick up by you. Nobody else. Nobody else can force you. Nobody else can do anything else. It’s only you can pick up. When I say, “pick up”, means you’re getting the analyze and getting the information. That’s pick up. And once you pick up, and then you adapt/adopt(?)0:29:23.5. That is your focus and concentrating and all this. And without knowing, I think, Ruth used to tell me, “I found it’s creeping in.” Right? Creeping in within me. So, that’s what it is. And that will sort of somehow creeping in within. Without realizing, saying, “Hey. Here I am.” I made you yourself Buddhist and this and that. Without all this, nothing, nothing of that sort. Simply made some difference when you approach your life. Without taking label. Without, without giving anything. So, the moment you are taking label, you’re boosting your ego. And so, whatever it may be, good or bad or whatever. Ego is so funny. And even you become. Even you may. Let’s say you become a cult member. And you say, “Wow. I am cult member.” And even that will boost ego, so. We all know the cult member’s not necessarily great, but still to that individual, that will boost ego. So, it doesn’t have to be right or anything. Even it’s completely wrong, but that boosts ego. So, the Lam Rim should not go to raise any negative emotions. It should always go against the negative emotions. It should, sort of, sort of, without realizing within you, how you approach. How you think. If you look back three years later, three years before, how you used to handle and you do. And then you probably notice. Three years.

0:31:03.8 Don’t try to look what I did yesterday, what I’m doing today. Nothing going to happen. If you maintain journal, you call it journal. Right? If you maintain journal and then if you look at your journal, like ten years later, eight years later. And then you’ll see big difference. Many of them are, due to mature age too. And then many of them, you’ll find a lot of Lam Rim influences in there. And that’s how its affect your life. And that, the bridge is also, I mentioned. I showed you bridge. And I also showed, I mean showed you how the intellectual information you take and the process it through and becoming part of the practice. That is the link between the analytical and concentrated meditation. And that make difference. In our level, right now, that is what we have. And later on, these steps will change. But right now, that’s what we have. Did I answer your question, sir? Ok. Now I think Robert’s been raising hand for a long time. And.

Robert: I was wondering.

Rimpoche: The mike is coming to you.

Robert: One of the thoughts I had about a lot of things that were said throughout the week was about. Kept thinking about the middle way as being. Lot. You see a lot of opposites. Wisdom and skillful means. There’s a lot of opposites. Or you’re being mindful in holding yourself still while something’s happening. There’s something in between. But the question I have that is with this is, is, in your tradition and what you know, “Is wisdom the same thing as truth? Because it. You know, the word truth isn’t used that much. Krishnamurti uses it a whole lot. And it starts to sound almost like vipassana. Listening to find some truth. But I’m wondering if wisdom is the same as truth and if one were to say, wisdom and compassion. If one were to say truth and compassion, is that relationship like, dharmakaya, nirmanakaya. You know, is this. Is this related? Is this some kind of, certainly between all opposites we stand looking at it or experiencing it, and something’s born out of that as a middle way, that isn’t here yet. Or it’s only here in potential. That’s one question kind of about the middle way, but the other question is, is what is truth? And how is it different from wisdom? Does wisdom some kind of element of love or compassion in it. Or is there something more obvious thing?

0:33:47.8 Rimpoche: I’m sure it is a very good question. But very complicated to me. Again now, let me make it simple. If I understand correctly, the wisdom means the knowledge of the truth. Well, wisdom means it’s, isn’t it?

Robert: Something that comes with time. I think wisdom is related to.

Rimpoche: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. If I understand correctly, the wisdom, almost follow, almost trying to follow the Tarab Tulku step. The, the, the word what you translated as wisdom, the word in Tibetan is shedrub. Shedrub is the, is a, the, the, knowledge information and capacity to be able to know the, get the truth. So. So, to me, the wisdom is the, well, I mean, on the other hand, you say it is wisdom. I think it’s the, it’s the knowledge of the truth is wisdom. I’m not sure whether the truth itself is wisdom. But truth must be wisdom but. I don’t know how to answer Robert’s question. That’s number one. And number two, and wisdom and compassion when you’re talking about that. And that is you’re talking about knowledge of knowing the truth which has strong influence of compassion. Or in essence, it is compassion. And it is knowledge of knowing the truth. Probably basically wisdom and compassion. And then when you’re talking about the dharmakaya and wisdom. It is the different stage. The level of the truth, what when you begin to understand and when you’re at the middle of the level, when you’re at the end of the level, I think it’s differs. Differs. Not only the intense, but intenseness of the truth, but also the clarity and everywhere, every point level differs. So, that’s why the names goes on changing. Because. Because the nature of the lucid nature of that level changes. And that’s why, I believe the name has been changing in that way. What else did you say? What did I forget in there?

0:36:59.1 Robert: Well I was. I think that’s

Rimpoche: Oh, oh. You said the middle path. Ok. Middle path. Middle path. Middle path. Middle path is, is used everywhere. And basically, when you talk about the middle path Nagarjuna’s middle path and all this. And more or less, they’re not talking about the compassion. They’re talking about the wisdom level. And that level of the truth, free of two extremes. So, whether the right extreme or the left extreme. (laughs) In other the words, the nihilistic point or the existentialistic point. Free of that. There. I think you come in the middle path, somewhere around that level. I guess that’s that.

Robert: But it’s very dynamic. The middle way is very dynamic between opposites. It changes appearances.

Rimpoche: Must be.

Robert: They don’t. It’s not as

Rimpoche: Must be. Must be. Must be balanced level. Must be balanced level. Yeah.

Robert: So, the truth is timeless. And wisdom comes through time. It has something to do with the body and something that comes through the experience on this earth. Wisdom. Truth is timeless. You could. Everything disappears there. Truth will totally know(???)0:38:22.6 , and disappear. And love. It does not disappear

Rimpoche: I don’t know. I don’t know whether truth is timeless or truth have the, truth have time.

Robert: I’m saying that wisdom is, wisdom comes through time. I’m saying that wisdom comes through time and experience. And truth is timeless, in that there’s some kind of major difference. Because the Tibetan tradition doesn’t use truth, like you’d see Krishnamurti would or so many people. There’s no religion higher than truth. The theosophical model for instance. Truth is a big word. Not facts

Rimpoche: Must be. Must be.

Robert: So, wisdom is some unique thing. I can stop. I just wanted. You answered my question. That it changes through levels and that it’s the really the same thing, but it’s changing if you’re not. I understand if you can’t use it. It’s no good.

Rimpoche: Thank you

Robert: Right.

Rimpoche: Ok.

Robert: I plan on use it.

Rimpoche: Ok. Can you put, can you give that mike to Margaret. Please.

0:39:23.2 Margaret: I’m just wondering, Rimpoche, as you, as one becomes sort of making that bridge, you know, the analytical to the concentrated meditation. Do you feel like there’s a correlation with sort of life challenges. Do you see that being?

Rimpoche: What are you, what do you mean?

Margaret: Well. It’s in. As you’re become smarter in your meditation and sort of, you know, figure out what you are doing, do you feel like that, therefore the life seems to. Your challenges become more intense. I don’t know. Is there a correlation? Is what I. Do you see that as being?

Rimpoche: The challenges always become more and more until certain level. And then after certain level, the challenge will go down. If you’re talking about that.

Margaret: Yeah. Ok. Well, that’s all I wanted.

Rimpoche: Thank you. Don’t pass there. You know. Just give it to back to mike. And then goes to Jonas.

Jonas: Rimpoche. I have a request. I wonder if the Odyssey to Freedom can be taught in the Jewel Heart Centers in a more intense manner.

Rimpoche: I thought we’re doing it. Aren’t we?

Jonas:

Rimpoche: Huh?

Jonas:

Rimpoche: Yeah. I think we are doing it. If you want intensify, go ahead and do it.

Jonas: I meant. Or I guess, I meant with the teacher.

Rimpoche: Did you get it? What did he say?

Jonas: He wants more challenges. He wants it one to one.

Rimpoche: Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, it be easily be can, can be done in Ann Arbor, if you have time. We have a place. And it could be done. And. Other places according to the conditions we have to go. And we’ll be happy if you have to do every day. That’ll be also be fine, you know. If you can. You should be doing it actually. Can you pass the mike to Brenda please?

0:42:10.9 Benda: So, question that came up in the Lam Rim group in Chicago and was answered. But I’d like to hear your answer also. The question is, whether spiritual development is a one way street or whether there can be back sliding. So, I’ll give the example that was given in the group. Let’s say a person really feels that they have understood the preciousness of human life. And the sign of development for precious human life is that, you don’t resist doing your dharma practice and you pay a lot of attention to it. And that could be going along for some period of time in someone’s life and there might be other challenges that come up. And the dharma practice deteriorates in quality, let’s say. So, does that mean that, that person really didn’t recognize precious human life or get full development of that point. And can you, can you backslide? I know how I answered it. But I’d like to hear how you answer it.

Rimpoche: Oh, you can definitely backslide.

Brenda: You can.

Rimpoche: You can. Yeah. You can backslide till certain level. And if you remember those five paths. Out of five paths, till you get the second path, and that also divided into four. Remember? And until you get, what is it? 0:43:23.3 (Tibetan: tu tsenmo tsova tu chog…) Huh? Yeah. But no. Up to the patience level, until that you can have backslide. You can slide back. So, if you are looking at the Lam Rim, definitely, even at the, even at the level of paramitas, even at the level of initiations, even at the development stage level, and all this. You can definitely go back. Go. That’s definitely. It is. That’s very definite. And so that’s why you have to have that, that encouragement and enthusiasm and all this sort of. You have to go along with it, otherwise they’ll definitely go back. Until that level comes. Uh. Could you give that to Jonathan, please?

Jonathan: In the Ganden Lha Gyema, thin the Migtsema it says, “You are Avalokiteshvara, great treasure of compassion, not aimed at true existence.” And I always get confused by that phrase, true, “not aimed at true existence”.

Rimpoche: You know, they, they’re talking about the emptiness. When you talk about. I don’t know how I’m, I’m going to explain this emptiness over here. But emptiness means empty of something. It’s not empty of me or you or empty of things are there. But empty of something. So, what will that empty of something be? Be. It is that something which we, something which we. You know, I think it’s always easy for me. We project. We project something solid, permanent, independent, standing something. Which will be, we project. Ok? We project that on everything. And everything. So, the projection whatever we do. However, we project. Whatever we are projecting, it is not there. Less of that. Thing whatever you project. That has become your object and lesser of that object. That’s what they’re try to say. Mig me.

0:46:22.6 Jonathan: So, this. I understand that point. But what then I don’t understand is, it says, not aimed at true existence. Strikes me it should say, not aimed at the delusion of existence.

Rimpoche: No

Jonathan: Or the illusion of existence

Rimpoche: No. No. The lack of true existence or, or, or even projection of true existence might not necessarily be delusion. Delusion in the sense of dualistic point. Yes. But delusion in sense of negativity. No. So, it might not be.

Jonathan: So, it’s the illusion of true existence.

Rimpoche: I guess so. Yeah. Ok. Now. Let’s go over way over there. There’s a lady on the gray shirt over there.

Gray shirt lady: Rimpoche, I was wondering, what basis should a person use to determine whether they’re

Rimpoche: Can you raise that volume a little bit?

Jonas: she’s on max

Gray shirt lady: What basis is used for a person to determine when they’re ready to enter Vajrayana?

Rimpoche: Well. If you want the true answer, when you have a good well-established understanding and adoption of compassion and love and some wisdom. That is the point. Shall. 0:48:09.0

Audience: Thank you sir. Just a follow up question to the spiritual backsliding. Which is such a crazy phrase. If one spiritually slides down the hill, is it possible to regain all that?

Rimpoche: Oh, why not?

Audience: Oh, well, I, I’ve been reading that the danger of becoming hardened to the dharma.

Rimpoche: Danger of what?

Audience: Becoming hardened to the dharma where it will no longer sink in. So, that’s all.

Rimpoche: No. It’s different. Hardened to dharma is. You know, if you slide down, spiritually back slide down, you can definitely come up. There’s no problem. But, you know, the hardened to dharma is something else. What happened is, you get all this done informations, and you collect all this informations on intellectual level is made available to you. And then did not apply as an, as a person with your thoughts, with your understanding. It never. If you don’t, focus is not put in. Focus is put out. Focus is put out. And so, you have information here. You have information there. There’s no shortage of information. It is stored in somewhere, some kind of your brain way of. Dan was talking this morning. Right? Last night then. Somewhere you store them. And. Huh?

Audience: Keep going.

0:50:03.5 Rimpoche: Just take your hands off from there. (laughs) And you have lot of informations. The informations are never utilized to push down your negativities. To challenge your negativities. The informations are made available to you to talk to different people or to show off or to, all kinds of things, you know. Everybody can use all sorts of things. So. So, then at the consequences of that, any information comes in you say, “Yeah, I know that. I know that. I know that. I know that. I know. I know. I read. I heard. I read. I heard.” So, anything whatever is really important will not affect as individual person. There’s no effect at all. But everything, you know, I know, you know, I know business. So, whatever it may be. And you know, like there may be a really strong, true, solid cases. But if that (beak in tape) raw, leather dry hard. You know. The skin out of, taking animal’s skin. Which is sort of remained under two or three summers and then dry and then all this. Even then, doesn’t matter, you can pick them. You know, Tibetan’s don’t have chemical thing to treat the leather. Leather. So, they use butter fat to treat the leather. So, they said, no matter how dry it might be. Year’s gone. So, you take them, apply the butter and work with that and you can treat that leather and can make jacket or coat out of it. Or make bag or whatever. Can become useful. But leather that used for keeping butter and that when it go, you can’t do anything. So, 0:52:34.2 (Tibetan: Mar go mar get…) So, no matter how sinful, how mean, how terrible person it might be, that person can be helped by dharma. But if the person is like the raw leather put, keep the butter and then no matter whatever you do, that can’t help. So, even though that person is not a, let’s say normal Christian language, sinful person. But when he says, what you use, what you use, dharma right?

Audience; harden

Rimpoche: Dharma hard, that’s right.

Audience: Harden

Rimpoche: Harden dharma. And then nothing can help. So, that’s what they use the traditional metaphor. So, that is the thing.

0:53:35.5 Everything went into the intellectual level. And it all becomes only intellectual. Nothing connected. And so, then, you know, many of those geshes, who are very good for debating and every information is used to cut down the, your opponent’s viewpoint. No matter whatever it takes. You know. Cut them in two pieces and it’s never used to challenge your own delusion. So, the sharp knife is always focused out. And then also, there’s some meditators. They’re all the sort of. These are truly spiritual materialism. That’s what it is. Elizabeth. Mike’s coming to you other way. Other side.

Elizabeth: Rimpoche, this is a question followed by Brenda’s comments and sharing on spiritual backsliding. The first question is, I’m very interested in hearing on your thoughts about what really on a practical level, constitutes spiritual backsliding. What that, I mean, what are some very, very, very simple examples of that. And my second question is, for a person, I’m aware that one of my forms of self-cherishing is to underestimate and to, to do a lot of self-criticism. At times it’s not appropriate. So, I often engage in, like, beating myself up about doing what I think in, is a concept of not being connected to the teachings. So, I’m just. I’m very interested in your thoughts on some sort of practical pointers of how one realizes if you’re not, if you’re not strong, you don’t perceive yourself as strong enough to be doing practice every day in the most regular way possible. What are other benchmarks you can look towards to assess where you, where you’re going?

0:56:10.2 Rimpoche: Ok. Let me. You keep that mike there. Let me deal with your first question. So, what is really spiritual backslides. It’s not that you would like to do your practice today, you can’t, you don’t feel like doing tomorrow. It’s not spiritual backslides at all. Or you like to, you used to enjoy it and now you don’t enjoy anymore. That’s not necessarily spiritual backslide. It happens when if you are tired. It happens when you didn’t do for a couple of days. It happens. So, any reason it can happen. It doesn’t mean. But what really meant is, if you look at your mind level. Mind level, generally, if you have a lot of hesitations to indulge in negativities and you begin to lose those hesitations. And those are the points we’re really spiritual backsliding. Are you are a person who would not like to hurt, even a fly. But suddenly you begin to recognize. You begin to realize you don’t mind fishing. Or you won’t mind, you won’t mind shooting deer over here, you know. Things like that you have not hesitation to indulging in negativities and you always wanted to be nice and helpful, but begin to realize I won’t mind letting people do some undesirable things. Or things like that is the really a clear sign of sliding at the spiritual, what you call it? Slide back? Or whatever?

Audience: Backsliding

Rimpoche: Backslide. That is your question one. Then, what is your question two?

Elizabeth: My question

Rimpoche: Because you put them all together and, and I’m such a stupid mind, so I can’t really keep it, you know.

Elizabeth: My question two went to, for a person like me, who, one of my forms of self-cherishing.

Rimpoche: Who, what?

Elizabeth: Someone like me. I said,

Rimpoche: Yeah.

Elizabeth: One of the forms of self-cherishing that I

Rimpoche: Oh. I didn’t get that in between.

Elizabeth: One of the

Rimpoche: Person like me, then what?

Elizabeth: Who has, who works and who has a big problem. Right? With self-cherishing in the form of underestimating myself.

Rimpoche: Self-cherishing. Underestimating. Can you clarify a little more?

Elizabeth: Yeah. You answered this for me a few years ago.

Rimpoche: No, no, no, no. Wait, wait, wait. I would like to get this.

Elizabeth: Ok.

0:59:28.2 Rimpoche: Self-cherishing

Elizabeth: Right.

Rimpoche: Underestimating what?

Elizabeth. What? Ok. Free all suffering beings and place them in bliss. If you.

Rimpoche: Underestimating what?

Elizabeth: From six session. Where you say

Rimpoche: No, no. Forget about six session. Talk about from your mind.

Elizabeth: Ok. If. If

Rimpoche: Self-cherishing now underestimating who? Self or the other?

Elizabeth: Self. My own self capacity

Rimpoche: Oh.

Elizabeth: to make the grade. To get through.

Rimpoche: Ok

Elizabeth: That’s what I’m talking about.

Rimpoche: Ok. Then?

Elizabeth: Then, what I, I segued into asking, if I have this kind of yucky tendency to always be picking at myself, and saying, “Oh. Didn’t make the mark. Didn’t make the mark. A little bit more, you know. A little bit more. Not quite good enough.” Then what are some of the benchmarks or what are some of the things that I can look to, to say, to cut that down. To cut down that because it cuts down getting a stronger practice in place. It’s a real insidious little loop. No?

Rimpoche: I heard you.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Rimpoche: But the. But I have a problem up there.

Elizabeth: Ok. What’s

Rimpoche: Ok. One; self-cherishing. Ok. That’s fine.

Elizabeth: Yeah

Rimpoche: Because I don’t have a problem in that.

Elizabeth: Ok

Rimpoche: Underestimating your own capacity. I don’t have a problem with that. Now, saying not up to the mark yet. I want. Need to go a little more. Need to go little more. And how does that work?

Elizabeth: It works like. Ok. Let’s go back to our first point. Our first point was, I asked you.

Rimpoche: I thought we settled the first point. Let’s not go back. Let’s stick on that point. Yeah. Ok.

Elizabeth: We did. We did. Ok. But. But we. But the question of like, looking at what constitutes dharma backsliding. Ok? And then you take a person like me, and I am. I will. I will imagine or not recognize. Either imagine dharmic backsliding. Or imagine that I have not been dharmically backsliding because it relates back to, to, whatever form of self-cherishing I’m dancing around with at the moment. If it’s a negative form of self-cherishing, it will make it be that I can never make the mark. I can never do enough to make myself feel that I’m part of the club. And if it is a sense of feeling extraordinary about myself fleetingly. Then I may not even notice that I am, you know, I am getting real lax in terms of noticing where I’m easily going into negativity.

1:02:52.4 Rimpoche: No, Elizabeth excuse me.

Elizabeth: Yes

Rimpoche: Really excuse me. I’ve been hearing everything what you say. But somehow, I can’t figure out. Either I’m too tired, or I’m not catching up, or it doesn’t give me anything, you know. With the word what you’re using, self-cherishing. I don’t have problem with that. You’re thinking, I’m not, I’m not backsliding. I’m doing fine, but in reality, I’m a backslider. I’m sliding back. Whatever. Backsliding. And that, I don’t have problem with that. I don’t have. That, I’m not sure whether that’s self-cherishing or something else. I’m not even sure whether that point is self-cherishing or not. That must be something else. That is number one. And then, number two. Now when you bring underestimating yourself and bringing point a little bit better, more. And if you look that as bad, I don’t think that is bad. That of pushing mind of a little bit better. A little bit more, little bit better than this, is good, either both in material and spiritual both. It is good one. It is not bad one. So. So, now there’s another lingering point which I couldn’t get it.

Robert:…

Rimpoche: It’s ok. One minute. Let her say it. I’m sorry Robert.

Robert: …

Elizabeth: It relates back to what people have been working with all week. Which I’ve been working with most of the week of the issue of how not to turn mindfulness on yourself. How not to.

Rimpoche: How not to turn.

Elizabeth: How not to turn it on yourself. How to use it. How to use it to support your practice, to give yourself a small but significant boost, you know, each day in whatever way in which you’re able to connect to Dharma each day. And to notice also at the same time, to use mindfulness to help yourself know those points where you stop connecting strongly enough that all of sudden there’s these, you know, little funky things going on that you’re doing. And you’re not like. You’re not dealing with certain parts of your life very well and it creeps in. That’s the negative way of creeping in.

1:05:45.3 Audience: What I’m hearing is in the question is, how can I stop sabotaging myself with my dharma practice. I sabotage myself with my dharma practice several ways. One way I sabotage myself is by saying, “I am spiritually backsliding. I’m not doing well.” You answered that one. So, I can also sabotage myself by saying, “I could do better. I’m doing fine, but I could do better.” So, there’s a sense that I get, that there’s a constant mindful preoccupation with how I’m doing and no matter whether I’m doing good, or I’m not doing good, it’s not good enough. Elizabeth: And that’s the point I was trying to make about self-cherishing. Ok? Because that’s

Rimpoche: I don’t, I don’t look that as self-cherish. That’s the problem.

Audience: It’s still a problem, whether it is self-cherishing or not.

Rimpoche: Yeah. Oooh. It’s a difficult one.

Audience: Yeah. It is.

Rimpoche: So, one; you’re sabotaging yourself; I’m not doing enough. And your mind is occupied all the time, thinking you’re not doing enough. So, let’s deal with this. How do we handle that problem? I believe it is a really big problem. Isn’t it? Philip?

Philip: Yeah. Yeah…(everyone talking at once)

Rimpoche: it is a big problem. But on the other hand. One thing I don’t understand, why do we have to think about my practice all the time? Why do I have to think that? All the time. I can think that I have to go to go down to the lake. I have to think I’ll go to swim. I have to think I can eat. I have to think I would like to know other things in the life, beside practice. I have to think about how to look after my own physical aspects. I have to think about, how do I change my hair style. And what lipstick will suit me better. Why not? I have to think what I’m going to sing tonight. What happened to all those? Am I right or wrong? A. B. Again, this is emphasized on top of it.

1:08:48.0 Dharma practice, though normally, you may read somewhere, books, say “twenty-four hours and blah, blah, blah” But no one can ever do it. Dharma practice for twenty-four hours a day. I’m quite sure even Buddha didn’t do it. It’s not even possible. Physically possible for a human beings to do it. What I’d been hearing from the traditional teachers in the traditional time. That’s like fifty, sixty, hundred years ago, with this all this no modern development at all. Good old back Tibet on the Himalayas and you probably have nothing else to do. Or even over there. Even over there. No, no. Please. Please. No, no, no. Don’t laugh. Even over there, what I’m hearing from those teachers. They say, if you practice sixty/sixteen(?)1:09:46.2 years of your life, actual time what you putting is less than five years. So, that tells you, no one does. No one can ever do it all the time. No one. So. So, idea of not doing enough, if you’re say, you are putting like fifteen, twenty minutes, or half an hour, maybe forty minutes. Say hour. And out of hour, you spend like, forty-five minutes to just say blah, blah, blah blah,. Read like a parrot. And fifteen minutes you think. And that is good enough for us at this time. And nobody is backsliding or sliding back. What is it? Backsliding. Nobody. And there’s. It is not that, not good enough. If you can do it more than that, wonderful. But if you cannot do it, no one think it is not good enough at all. And then it also not depends how much you put efforts. It depends, what do you get out of it. The really true is. This is. This is because of the Vajrayana. That’s the reason. What you get out of it. It’s not that. You know, it is wise investment. And so how you gain your yields. These are the main points. It is not how much time you put on. It is what the yield you get in.

1:11:45.0 That’s why we say, it’s profound. It has this. All of those. This is the reason why. So, the mind or the thought rather, of saying, “I didn’t do enough. I didn’t do enough. I didn’t. I could have done better than that. “ Is an actually, it is a disturbing thought. Thought that one should not even entertain. Thought that one should reject. When Robert is talking about the middle path, this is an extreme thought. Thought should be negated. These are my honest thoughts. Knowing you, personally and that’s what I. And it might not be true for everybody else. But the person who doesn’t even say OM MANI PADME HUM a day and if they think, “oh that thought is thought to be negated.” It may be true for that person, you know. So, it is really. So, that’s what I feel. I don’t know whether it’s been helpful or not. It’s been confusing for me. (laughs) Ok. I think I have to call it a day, because it is already ten-thirty. [And I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Yes, please. Yes. Otherwise, I’m going to close the shop. I have to get to Supa over here. Catch those flies. There are so many of them.]

Kathy: just wanted to let.

Rimpoche: Yeah. I think we will not close because 1:13:45.1 (???) that people are missing.

Kathy: Ok. Tomorrow being. Is tomorrow Saturday? Yeah. Tomorrow being the last day before our last day, we would just like to ask if everybody could be mindful, just a warmup. If you could be mindful about the space. Maybe start picking up things and returning things, so that packing up on Sunday’s just a little bit easier. Just use the day throughout tomorrow with that sort of thought. That’s it.

Rimpoche: Ok. I think we should close just simply saying: Dag gi ji nye…(first verse of short Lam Rim dedication)