Archive Result

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Soundfile 20011017GRMDWHAinterview

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Wisconsin Public Radio w/host Jean Feraca

Topic Overcoming Anger and Anxiety

Transcriber Kay Pierce

Date 12/15/2021

0:00:10 Feraca (beginning of sentence missing) ….very high levels of anxiety certainly, especially with this outbreak of anthrax going on, not only that but of course since September 11th we feel tremendously vulnerable in a way that perhaps Americans have never felt before, and also in some cases a desire for revenge. We have with us a man who is very practiced in the arts of transforming all negative emotions. He’s a man who knows whereof he speaks. He grew up in very privileged circumstances in pre-China Tibet and lived through the Chinese occupation of Tibet, had to escape Tibet, ended up actually sleeping standing up in a swamp in that escape and made his way into India, into safety, and then into the United States where during the 60s he did something the same sort of rebellion that a lot of Americas did, (laughter) experimenting and then recovering his sense of equilibrium with the practice of his traditional Buddhist religion. He’s a very wise man, very highly respected and he has much to tell us. We’ll be speaking with him in just a moment.

0:01:50 Feraca (cont’d) But I just want to say that those of you who I know appreciate not just political information but also something that goes beneath the surface. We all have spiritual needs these days. As somebody said just yesterday there are no atheists in a foxhole, and we’re all hunkering down. And we need this sort of wisdom more than ever and we’re hoping that we can provide it in the weeks and months ahead as we continue to face one of our greatest challenges historically.

0:02:25 Bradley And it’s a great challenge and it’s something that I think as you said that as human beings we’re trying to come to grips with what are those issues about being human and being personal, and that’s happening on this show. You’re gonna have this conversation this hour, your listeners are going to be invited to participate and we would really appreciate their show of support for this kind of dialogue. [phone #]

0:02:51 Feraca And we’ll find out in just a moment why this is a book you might want to have. Rimpoche will be talking about the book and signing copies of it. He’s very kindly signed this copy that I’m holding in my hands, um, for me. He’ll be at University Bookstore on the State Street mall at 6 PM this evening, and that’s why he’s right here in the studio right now. And it’s wonderful to have him with us. Doug, it’s great to have you with us as well, and we look forward to seeing you later on in the hour. Again the number if you’d like to pledge your support to Wisconsin public…

0:03:27 Rimpoche Thank you.

0:03:28 Feraca Rimpoche Gelek. You are a naturalized American citizen.

0:03:33 Rimpoche Yes I am, and I’m very fortunate to be American citizen. And particularly this time, at a time like this. And I hope that I have a little bit of service that I can offer to the American people. So after all I been through that once already in ’59. I been kick out Tibet by the Chinese.

0:04:04 Feraca And first as I understand it, the Chinese came to live with your family, under what circumstances?

0:04:13 Rimpoche Well when the Chinese came over Tibet the first thing, what they really did is they played the Tibetans’ own game, the game of love and compassion, against the Tibetans. And they sort of came up not as enemy, they came up as a friend. The friend who can liberate the Tibetans from the control of old feudal, as well as from the western expansionists and all that type of thing. They came as a friend and so they moved in a number of houses. And I remember when I was a younger, the Chinese living there, yes. They came as a friend and later drove (laughs), kept, became the owner. That’s what happened.

0:05:10 Feraca That was a kind of cultural revolution. The militia came in and began a campaign of violence to take over Tibet. And you know the Dalai Lama has always preached non-violence, and non-violent resistance to this affront.

0:05:33 Rimpoche That’s right.

0:05:34 Feraca Of course he had, he was forced into exile as so many Tibetans were, and in the West that choice of non-resistance is a difficult one for us to understand.

0:05:49 Rimpoche Yes, right, Jean, but if you look but not only His Holiness really emphasized so much on the non-violence and resistance both together, but it also a very important principle of the Buddha. And the Buddha is very non-violence, really extremely important in that, and he’s also very important in people’s life, and he preached that and he himself is non-violent. And then followed by Gandhi, the Mahatma Gandhi in India, and also the Dr. King here. And all this non-violence principle has really proved to be very important not only to the Buddhist viewpoint, but also from everybody. And so that is very important one and we’re very fortunate to have Dalai Lama as a leader of Tibet, who can really bring not only the Tibetans but in the world, the movement of non-violence and the movement of compassion.

0:07:01 Feraca I know that the Dalai Lama has been adamant in his attempt to preserve the culture of Tibet in diaspora, and that you have been a part of that effort.

0:07:17 Rimpoche Yes. The Tibetan culture unfortunately today is a dying culture. And it is, well, by being born in Tibet, I mean myself, as you know I’m American-Tibetan, so for instance I consider it’s my duty to try to save the culture that is dying. And not only just culture, culture that can bring a tremendous amount of peace and harmony and love and compassion in the society. If we lose this the world will be much more poorer. So I try my best to try to save that culture.

0:08:09 Feraca We usually think of peace and harmony coming out of war, after, in the aftermath of war. How is possible to cultivate peace and harmony and compassion in the midst of war?

0:08:26 Rimpoche The point really here, what I notice, is the hatred which really brings tremendous suffering. Hared, fear, anger, these are [8:39 unclear] as negative emotions. They bring tremendous pain to the people. Now what had happened on September 11th in the United States, New York as well as the Washington and elsewhere, what had happened, all of this are vivid example how hatred can hurt people. So knowing this, so hatred is definitely not good, hatred brings hatred, violence brings violence. So it is very important for us to stop the hatred. So when you have to stop the hatred you have to replace the hatred. Hatred really has to be replaced by love, by compassion, and that is very important in our life. Yes, you’re right. Normally the peace and harmony is the aftermath. But you can definitely have peace and harmony during the war like this, particularly today. The need of the hour for me, when I look at the American society, the need of the hour is the love and confidence and the fearlessness. And that is very important because if we submit to fear and hatred we will continuously suffer. So I think it’s very much that you and me, and you can do together, to stop this hatred and to stop this fear. And I think that will be very important thing to do.

0:10:27 Feraca How does one do that? Are there practices? Are there beliefs? What is the most important way to restore calm and confidence, as you put it, to one’s personal internal state?

0:10:46 Rimpoche Jean, on September 11th, you know when incident is taking place, and I had very difficult to get off the image of the second plane hitting the second tower, couldn’t get off my head. Took it weeks, as well as I noticed that I was angry. And I was angry with what’s happening, and so I had to process that anger. If I could not process that anger, this anger going to bring me a lot of trouble and even depression. So I need to process this anger and what I did is I sat down and started looking in the minds of those hijackers, and what are they thinking, how they’re functioning. You know what I found?

0:11:41 Feraca What did you find?

0:11:42 Rimpoche You know, they are supposed to be educated. As human beings, naturally normal human beings are good and kind nature. But these fellows are, unfortunately, completely overpowered by their negative emotions. Crooked ideas, twisted brain-washing, and it is so harmful not only to thousands of people, but for themselves. Even they lost their own life, killed themselves. So I found, what should I do with that people? So I cannot help it but thinking, poor thing. Human life, good human beings’ position wasted such a terrible way, and wasted their life. So I developed compassion to them. And they are definitely object of compassion. But having said this – may I continue? Having said this, compassion does not necessarily mean you cannot stop what they’re doing. You have to stop what they’re doing. In other words, we have to go and get them with compassion and stop what they’re doing. Otherwise they will hurt us and they will hurt themselves. I think we have to protect themselves from themselves, and that is the job of the compassion.

0:13:16 Feraca I know that long after you had escaped Tibet you discovered the fate of your parents, that your mother and your father both were captured and tortured. Your mother in her extreme state of suffering, committed suicide.

0:13:42 Rimpoche Yes. But she made attempt to commit suicide twice when she was under a sort of prison. It’s a sort of funny prison. It looks like house arrest but tremendous torture, much more than even usual prison. So she commit suicide three times and she did not manage. And finally she was released and then she died three days later. All her bones are broken and really, really bad shape and she’s a sort of completely gone crazy. And on that level. So that sort of anger, though you know it’s really stayed with me for very long time and I try to work that out. And I thought and I worked out and I thought I’m no longer angry with the Chinese. There’s no reason why I have to be angry with the Chinese. But as far as the Chinese leaders, particularly the Chairman Mao, I realize I still have anger because when I went to China and I have to put the Chinese money in my pocket and that has Mao’s head on that, it gives me creeps. So realize anger is still there with me although I have been in love compassion business for 60 years. (laughter)

0:15:18 Feraca But isn’t anger appropriate considering, you know, what your mother endured, how innocent she was, how vicious the enemy was in this respect? You as her son, isn’t it an appropriate human response to feel anger?

0:15:39 Rimpoche Definitely it is. It is, and particularly what had happened in the September 11th and many Americans, many including myself, were angry with this. And that is basically human pain. But anger gives terrible result. Anger takes away our peace in our mind. Anger disturbs us. And a lot of Americans we know go through depression . And you know I certainly expect aftermath of September 11th there are going to be huge, again, emotional problems, a lot of people going to suffer with this. These are all because of anger. The anger, though it give you a little hot air at the moment, but for the long run it will do more damage to ourself than help. So anger is no good, and particularly if anger change into the hatred. It creates a lot of suffering to so many. I’m so glad that you started looked a little internally as well because you know these days we’re all looking for external things and particularly you know, sort of electronic type of bombardment, we were looking at it, so that may not do us to help, to process the sufferings that we Americans are going through. I’m so glad you looking a little internally because we have to heal internally rather than externally. So internal healing can only be done by ourself, by making the part process of that anger, making sure that doesn’t change into hatred. And if possible change them into compassion. But that doesn’t mean you let them get away, get them with compassion and stop their action. I think that would be the solution, and that would be the answer what every individual Americans can do today. So that’s what I really felt and I hope my book here will help, little service to the people how to deal with the anger, and all variety of different angers. So I talked about that and I hope that will have a little service to people.

0:18:24 Feraca We’re talking with Rimpoche Nawang Gelek. The book is Good Life Good Death. I’m Jean Feraca. You can join in by calling [phone #]. In Madison it’s [phone #]. This is the Ideas Network of Wisconsin Public Radio. If you’d like to make a pledge of support to Wisconsin Public Radio, and you’ve helped us raise $1,055.00 so far this hour.

0:18:59 Rimpoche Oh, thank you so much, I’m very happy and I rejoice (laughter)

0:19:04 Feraca And so do I.

0:19:05 Rimpoche Thank you. You know one of the rejoicing is one of the best way to build a good sort of fortune or luck in the buddhist tradition. (laughs)

0:19:16 Feraca We have had precious little of rejoicing in recent weeks. Maybe you can help us recover our sense of that.

[audio glitch] 0:19:29 Caller Hi, I’m Tom…

0:19:31 Feraca Open lines right now for anyone who wants to join this conversation with Rimpoche Gelek. The number is [phone #]. Rita joins us from Crystal Lake, Illinois.

0:19:43 Caller 1 Good morning.

0:19:44 Feraca Hi, Rita.

0:19:45 Caller 1 Hi. I’ve heard your guest before and I think he has wonderful things to say, and I’ve got a question about Buddhism. I’ve got a Buddhist practice myself, a Zen sitting practice which is local. I don’t go all the time but I go frequently. And since the hijacking I’ve thought more and more of something that happened during the Viet Nam war when some Buddhist monks set themselves on fire as a demonstration against, I’m not really sure what. Against the United States coming into the Viet Nam war? Does he remember that and can he explain it?

0:20:19 Rimpoche Yes I do remember that. Thank you for calling. I’m glad you have a meditation practice. Yes, I recall that. You know, the Buddhism is actually non-violent religion but any other ancient religion Buddhism also had sometimes this violent actions. I do remember very well, I still have the vivid picture that I saw on television at that time, the monk was burning, the monks are burning themselves which I personally, well I do not really like that. Whatever the cause is, whatever they think they’re doing, and I think it is hurting yourself is violence and Buddhist principle is non-violence. And yes I do remember. And so that’s what I think, it is not that great to do.

0:21:21 Feraca He doesn’t approve.

0:21:23 Caller 1 Yeah, I didn’t either, and I know that Buddhism itself takes many different forms throughout the Asian culture and I was just kind of baffled by that kind of thing, where they were protesting so vigorously that they gave their own lives. And that didn’t sound like the kind of Buddhism I been used to hearing about.

0:21:48 Feraca It was a very effective device, however.

0:21:51 Caller 1 Yes it was. I’ve never forgotten it. Nor has anyone, I think. And it kind of, there’s something analogous, I think, seeing people who sacrifice themselves and I wondered if these people, these monks, might not have been led to do this by someone who impressed them greatly. We’re all vulnerable to that, I think.

0:22:15 Rimpoche Very true. Sometimes in the spiritual path, and if we cannot use our common sense very well people can mislead. And we have a lot of incidents we have seen, like Jim Jones as well as the Heaven’s Gate. And all of those are, sometimes if we really follow the blind faith, sometimes we have a problem. But I don’t think the Viet Nam thing is something like that. Maybe some of those younger, maybe even older monk, really felt about this anti-war very strongly and maybe they had no other alternative to express their way, how to stop that war they might have done that also. But I don’t know because I don’t talk to them and I’ve been through their minds I don’t know, but in general the violence action like this, I don’t like it.

0:23:10 Feraca Thanks for the call, Rita. Open lines right now for anyone else who wants to join in. We’re talking with Rimpoche Nawang Gelek. The number is [phone #]. In Madison it’s [phone #]. Rimpoche, obviously you are, you pay attention to world events. You are in the know in terms of what’s going on in politics and in history, and yet you obviously have a different set of criteria from which to discern what constitutes right action in the world. How do you be in the world but not of it? In other words, how do you preserve this inner core of calm in a time when, as you put it, there’s so many negative amotions swirling around, so many reasons to be depressed because of the news of the day and so forth?

0:24:16 Rimpoche Well what I try to do is what Buddha shared with us 2,500 years ago. So actually I try to keep my mind very stable, #1. And #2, all my motivations are always try to be helpful even for a single human being, even then no matter whatever we have to do I try to be helpful. And the total my life I have dedicated to be helpful for the people, and that helps me to be able to be with today’s contemporary affairs, political, economic, whatever, social. And yet I try to maintain my principle of love and compassion oriented [25:16 unclear], I don’t know if I’m [25:20 unclear] or not, but I’m try maintain really compassion oriented mind all the time.

0:25:28 Feraca Paul joins in from Cambridge. Hello Paul, go ahead.

0:25:30 Caller 2 Well, I recently tuned in just about 10 minutes ago and caught a little bit of conversation about your speaker speaking on hatred and that it is a negative type thing, and anger and such. And it really caught my interest because I’ve recently been in counseling where I wasn’t showing anger or hatred towards a 20 year break up where I was, where maybe I had reason to be, but my counselor says that’s why I’m not going to move on. I feel that, my own way of looking at it is that the same comments your speaker made, that it’s not a good thing, and I feel no anger or hatred towards the person who decided to leave me because it was just the way it is. And I just think that, for my counselor to say that I need to give that expression or that feeling outward to get going with my life isn’t right. And that’s what I wanted to comment on.

0:26:42 Rimpoche Thank you, Paul for calling. I’m glad you’re taking care of your, so to say, anger. But the most important thing to realize is everything’s impermanent, it changes, and it always changes. So you have to really realize and get a grip that every situation is changeable. So then you will find sunshine in there, Paul. Thank you calling.

0:27:12 Feraca Patty’s next in Madison. Hi Patty.

0:27:15 Caller 3 Hi Jean, thank you for taking my call, and welcome to Rimpoche. I was calling because I wanted to just share a very brief story and then ask for Rimpoche’s comments on this. My husband recently spoke with somebody who had a conversation with a Tibetan buddhist monk who had been incarcerated by the Chinese for a number of years. And apparently every day he was beaten for many years. And she asked him how did he endure all those beatings? And he told her everyday after the beating he would go back to his cell and he completely forgave the people that did this to him. And she said how could you do that? And he said because if I did not forgive them I could not have endured the next one. And that story has had tremendous impact on my life in terms of understanding the role of forgiveness and how we are in the world. And I wondered what Rimpoche’s comments and thoughts are about the concept of forgiveness and moving beyond the anger we as a nation have endured what happened on September 11th and I’ll take his comments on the air.

0:28:24 Rimpoche Thank you. The forgiveness, yes, it is important. But at the same time I have mentioned earlier the love and compassion does not have to be door mat. So we should not be door mat, but we should never have hatred and anger. And as far as I’m concerned even, no question of taking revenge, even bringing justice is also not, I don’t really care. But what do I care is to stop the action and that’s what we have to, that’s what I said earlier, try to go and get them, get them with compassion. Compassion stops hatred. I’m so glad you called, and I really appreciate what the monk did. Is in individual level is forgiving very good. And over this situation the forgiving may not be really appropriate or whatever. But we have to forgive but at the same time we have to stop their action.

0:29:30 Feraca You know for so many people anger is a fuel. It’s one of the reasons why it’s hard to give it up because it impels you to action. And Americans, as you know well by now are a people who really value action. In the place of anger what is the fuel, if you give it up?

0:29:52 Rimpoche Compassion. I was talking with late American poet, Allan Ginsberg, and Allan told me I’m moving this demonstration, anti-war demonstrations and all this He said I try to lift the Pentagon up by chanting om. And I joked with Allan, I said well you try to lift the Pentagon up with anger and om but you should’ve tried to lift the Pentagon up with love and ah and they would have worked better. (laughter) But one thing, you know, one problem what I noticed with Americans, you know they did not, many Americans, not all of them, great Americans are great, but some of us, some Americans, we don’t have the basic strong love and self-confidence. So when the news of when they been abused or something had happened they don’t have basis understand so they have to hold that anger because otherwise you lose base completely. I noticed that with a lot of Americans. So it is important to replace the anger with the love.

0:31:16 Feraca Yes, otherwise you live with a vacuum.

0: 31:18 Rimpoche That’s right, that’s right, yes.

0:31:22 Feraca I want to ask you how you think of yourself as an American.

0:31:25 Rimpoche I’m very proud to be American (laughs). I’m very fortunate and very proud to be American…

0:31:33 Feraca what are you proud of…

0:31:34 Rimpoche …and I’m equally proud of Tibetan, born in Tibet. I’m proud I’m American because of the freedom, because of the choice that you can make, because even a single individual like me who been kick out of my country, whose been sort of a homeless, but even though I can make a difference to the people’s life. I can contribute to something to the society. So that’s why I’m proud of being an American.

0:32:04 Feraca We have Jill joining us from Kewaunee next. Hi Jill, go ahead.

0:32:08 Caller 4 Hi. I want to thank you, guest, very much for coming today. I’m appreciative of your message of compassion. I want to ask you (Rimpoche: Thank you) if the Bush administration came to you and asked you how do we stop this with compassion, can you give me some particulars of how we would do that?

0:35:27 Rimpoche Well, I will first say I hope this is the conservative compassionate action, so you know, remember when President Bush was running he saying conservative compassionate policy…

0:32:40 Feraca Oh that’s true, he did say that.

0:32:43 Rimpoche So I hope that is his action, and I hope he will really have, really have achieved his goal for whatever it may be, and I hope a lot of innocent people are not hurt. And I hope the war will not drag on so long, that’s what I will tell.

0:33:06 Feraca Uh huh, okay, thanks Jill. Carl’s next in Rushford, Minnesota. Go ahead, Carl.

0:33:11 Caller 5 Oh Hello. I’m very pleased to hear our guest speaking. I just wanted to comment that regarding how anger begets anger, or you might say brings it, there’s many ways to say that but it amounts to a form of math or calculus or logic or algebra about the way things work, that there’s the beginning and the bringing and a circular motion and it’s a worth paying attention to…

0:33:58 Feraca You must be a mathematician.

0:34:01 Caller 5 I am, I’m trying to analyze, understand systems, I’m a systems analysis or holistic author, how, the physics of how everything works in nature. Um, also I…

0:34:20 Rimpoche …very good.

0:34:21 Caller 5 …yeah, if we ask ourselves what is the difference between an act of God and an act of man and an act of nature in terms of either the gifts or the disasters and tragedies we gain some ground there. And in regard to Afghanistan and Iraq, I was thinking of them as our a, as the birthplace of civilization and therefore our very old parents who are worn out and lost their health and used up their resources, and some of it’s our attitude towards the aged there. So please come in.

0:35:09 Rimpoche Well you do have a point there it is the, yYou do have a point there, it is the ancient civilization source, it’s very unfortunately lost. But I will be in Minnesota tomorrow signing my book so I would be happy to see you.

0:35:31 Feraca I think you’ve become Americanized, Rimpoche. (laughter) Doug Bradley is back with us. And let me just mention once more that Rimpoche Nawang Gelek, that’s spelled “Gehlek” by the way, will be at the University Bookstore on the State Street mall at 6:00 this evening talking and signing copies of his book, Good Life Good Death. And by the way, we’re sending out copies of this book to anyone who calls in and pledges support at $180.00, which as we’ve mentioned is about half of a dollar a day, about 50 cents a day. If you think we’re worth 50 cents a day we’re very grateful to you and we’ll send you, with the generosity of Rimpoche Gelek, a copy of his book. And the number to call, if you’d like to help us out in that way is [phone #]. In the Madison area it’s [phone #].

0:36:35 Bradley Jean, you remember at the beginning of the hour, it was again a wonderful conversation…

0:36:41 Rimpoche Thank you.

0:36:42 Bradley …and it was terrific to have the kind of dialogue you were able to generate here, and you will in Minnesota tomorrow. We had $4,000.00 established as our goal and we’re inching our way toward that. This is when I think people really start to get excited and start to…

[audio glitch] 0:36:57 Feraca …now our borders. People like Rimpoche as he was just telling us earlier found a home in this country, having been kicked out of Tibet and (Rimpoche: that’s right) having had to have made his way under extremely dangerous, perilous circumstances out of the country. He finds his way to this country and he finds a place here and a voice and a microphone (laughter) and someone who’s going to publish his book, and bookstores all around the country that are going to welcome him. That’s what I’m proud of.

0:37:38 Bradley Sure. Jean, you and I have talked about this a little bit before. For me, it was on my mother’s side of the family, my Italian and Albanian ancestors, who made that journey, who came here to find a better life and to raise a family. And that, that’s carried on. And that’s what happens here in your shows, too, I think. You get a diverse perspective, points of view, you have people... we had a professor this morning talking about Afghanistan and now we've got the kinds of conversations we’re having around anger and anxiety. People need to call to let us know that they value this, that it’s important to them, they want to participate. Again the numbers are [phone #]. In Madison you can call [phone #]. On the internet, don’t forget the internet those of you who are listening to us, streaming audio, wpr.org.

0:38:32 Feraca And you know, the wisdom of American life, is what has happened since the beginning of this country, this incredible strength that comes from our hybridization, the fact that there are so many different ways to be American, the fact that we have so many rich streams to draw from. I think this is what makes our country great.

0:38:59 Rimpoche That’s very true. There is no place like America in the world. I’ve been all over and born in [39:09 unclear], brought here, this is fantastic, the freedom. And especially any individual, one person can make a difference to the society. This is the beauty of.

0:39:20 Bradley The beauty of what we’re doing now is we’ve got a non-profit, public radio…

0:39:26 Feraca …to say a few things that might help us out here.

0:39:29 Rimpoche Well, you do wonderful job and I will always listen to the public radios wherever I go because this is place where people can associate themselves, get the news, can get whole variety of the culture and it is the beautiful public service. And we’re very fortunate to be able to participate in that. Every citizen can call in and participate. It’s very, very beautiful. Because I was under communist control and you have no freedom. You can do nothing, and here it’s a big difference. And I really hope people appreciate that and make best use of the freedom what we have, and support people like you who trying to do great service. And I think that’s how we live our life, we have to overcome our fears, particularly fears that are generated in aftermath of what had happened September 11th. And we really have to overcome that, which we can and we will. Thank you.

0:40:36 Feraca Thank you [phone #]

0:40:37 Bradley Thank you very much.

0:40:40 Feraca [phone #] It’s wonderful, those wise and kind words. In Madison it’s [phone #]. We’re almost at the $3,000.00 mark. Um, $2,980.00 (laughs) Somebody call in a pledge of $20.00 and we’ll make that $3,000.00 mark. We’ve got another $1,000.00 to go, which’ll make our goal for the hour. We’ve got about three minutes left in which to do it. Again, I just have to reiterate it’s such a great privilege to be able to talk directly with someone of the stature of a Rimpoche, with his tremendous life experience and a tradition that he represents, that we can call American, we can call American. I think it’s the hope of our future. And also it goes back to something I learned from John Nichols that Thoreau, Henry David Thoreau, studied Buddhism back in the 19th century, that our own founding fathers and framers looked into the whole world to find the greatest ideas, the most potent ideas, the greatest traditions to draw upon in framing the constitution and in developing the new ideas that really created an America that had never existed before. And we’re continuing to do that.

0:42:06 Rimpoche Yes, this is great, this is a wonderful thing and I just mentioned when I became citizen of the United States the Michigan Supreme Court Chief Justice made a special ceremony and sworn me in, very kindly, and in that he said America found a wise and wisdom, and you found a way to contribute your wisdom to the well-being of the American society. So I really thought that’s…

0:42:37 Feraca That’s tremendous…

0:42:38 Bradley I’ve never really… I’ve not wanted to thank Michigan government for much but I’ll thank them for that (laughter) We’re delighted that they did that. They have good taste as does Jean and her listeners in the next couple of minutes, we can continue to take your calls. Jean, we’ve popped over the $3,000.00 mark, I think the less they hear from me and the more they hear from Rimpoche we’re probably, the better off we are, [phone #] is the state-wide number, [phone #] Madison. Thank you all who’ve called and contributed this hour. The dialogue continues. Jean will be back tomorrow with more thoughtful and inciteful conversation and we're lucky to have it

0:43:24 If we get, let’s see, nine….