Archive Result

Soundfile 20020912GRNYOTF

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location New York

Topic Odyssey to Freedom

Transcriber Glenn Powers

Date 2021-06-07

Welcome here this evening. What we are talking here is the continuation within that Odyssey to Freedom and that also common with the medium level. And tonight, like to briefly talk about what does Buddhist practice mean to us. What is the purpose? Why do we do? I think basically we are linked up with the four noble truth and talked quite detailed about this truth of suffering, also in the four different forms of truth, suffering itself. And it’s causes. And it is wisdom. All of those, we talked detailed. They are all interlinked. You know, many of you not been to the Summer Retreat, quite a number of you been there. They are all interlinked up. So, here now comes what is the purpose of the whole Buddhist practice is all about it. It is just simply to get rid of the sufferings and to get into peace. I can’t very detailed, but I should say normal slogan, saying samsara is suffering, nirvana is peace. That you heard. Samsara is Sanskrit word, I don’t know if it’s Sanskrit or Pali. But, one of those Indian languages, early. So, maybe it is common, I don’t know. Another words, circle of continuation of life, without control is basically samsara is all about it. Though, technically, it is wrong. 0:04:48.4

Technically, samsara relly means continuation of the contaminated identity is samsara. That is technically. In other words, the suffering nature, the body, we take one after another, without our choice, without our control. That is samsara. So, when you really want peaces and harmony and joy, we have to get out of the suffering. In our life, life is wonderful, beautiful, the body is great, nice, wonderful and all that. We get all pains, problems, sufferings, one after another continue no matter whatever we do. We do have that. Even nothing happens, we get old, we decay, we die. That’s the reality. It is nothing surprise because we all go through. There’s no one who really lives forever from one physical body. Yes, we all live forever. But, we take different bodies all the time. You know, I talk in the Summer Retreat, continuation of life, past, present and future life, which I never talk detail, but I did talk in Summer Retreat how it’s continuing, because I’m quoting from one of the Buddha’s teaching [Tibetan] 0:06:35.9 So, the the mind is always continuation of the mind. Nonmind cannot become a mind. Mind cannot become nonmind. So, it is always like that. So, the mind is the continuation of the mind. Therefore, today’s mind is continuation of yesterday’s, last week’s, last month’s, last year’s, youth time and childhood and even in the mother’s womb. Even beyond, up to the mother’s womb, we can see it. Beyond, we cannot see it. Because, there is a big transition. But, it is continuation. Otherwise, where it’s going to grow? Where it come from? There is not going to be new mind born because the mixture of egg and semen, there. It’s not going to happen. Otherwise, every mixture of semen and egg has to have a new baby. It doesn’t work that way. Some do, some don’t. That because of the entering of the mind make difference. I’m not talking about defective ones or non-defective ones generally. Even mixture doesn’t become baby. We all know that. All the doctors know, the scientists know, we all know that. There’s reason why because there’s no continuation of occupant. It’s empty house. So, empty house doesn’t grow. That’s what happens. So, there’s a continuation. When you have the continuation before, you’re bound to have the continuation afterwards. You know, I mentioned in my book, I said no one has proved past and future life, but no scientist has proved it’s not there. Because they cannot. Because it’s there. It’s there because we can really see it, very clearly. So, it is continuation. So, from the Christian point of view, all souls are old souls. Now new soul at. 0:09:02.9

So, we continue to run into the different identity without our control, that’s called samsara. Within that, we carry joy, we carry suffering, we carry changing suffering, we carry suffering suffering, pervasive suffering, all this we carry. So, what we wanted is end of that suffering. What we don’t want is continuation of that suffering. That is clear. So, that is the goal of Buddhist practice. That’s what Buddha’s short time ago, not long time ago, sort time ago, at least free of pains, that’s what it is. So, how you going to get that free of pain? Where the pain is coming from? The pain is the creation of ignorance, which we call it, ego. I will not go in detail, because I describe that in the Summer Retreat. So, I’m not going to talk here. So, that ego and so it is really ego creation. The traditionally, in the Tibetan tradition, called ignorance. But, it’s really an ego. I don’t mean the ego that psychologists have created to be boosting up. I’m talking about ego, the bad one. Because of that ego, we do have a tremendous amount of confusion. Because of this confusion, then we have this fear. Because of the fear, confusion combined together, we will go for protection. And you know, like you know you have anger and hatred and obsession and all of them coming up. We are behaving like porcupine ready to shoot anyone, anything. All of those are because of that confusion, because of that ego. So, getting rid of that ego is the really a path to the liberation. To make it very simple, it is path to liberation, get that ego sorted out. Clear that confusion, sorted out. Make it absolutely clear, whatever you are doing it. So, what makes that to be able to do? That is only wisdom. Wisdom is the only thing that sort it out. Wisdom is the only thing that can help. Wisdom is the only thing, no other. Not even love and compassion. It is the wisdom’s job. [Tibetan] 0:12:19.6 So, love-compassion is not direct antidote or opposite of that ego. Therefore, I’m not saying love compassion not great, it is great. Don’t misunderstand me. But, will not be able to clear that, it is only the wisdom. Wisdom, you know that’s why three higher trainings of the Buddha give, three higher trainings. Right? Or, three higher teachings. Or, they even call it three baskets. Whatever. Three major things. The wisdom, concentration, and morality. Wisdom is the one who does all this jobs. Can we develop wisdom within us? Straightaway, no. we can learn about it, we can think about, we can meditate. The wisdom here, traditionally in Sanskrit they call it vipassana. It’s not, I don’t think it is exactly vipassana that we see now here in the United States, that comes from dharma or all that. 0:13:47.1

I don’t think that is the vipasssana we are talking about it. It is same name, different meaning. That wisdom, vipassana nature, it’s called specially seeing. What does the word vipassana really mean? Specially seeing inside, which is only possible if you have shamata, concentration. So, they’re all interlinked, interdependent. Without shamata, you cannot develop that vipassana. The shamata necessary, absolutely. Shamata cannot be developed without proper morality. So, the three basket teachings is the morality and shamata and wisdom. So, they’re sort of built on top of another. So, the morality is fundamental basis. So, the subject what I’m supposed to talk tonight is the morality part of it. This is big question and big thing. It is interpreted, morality been interpreted in positive way, negative way, pulled in this way, pulled in that way, everybody did everything whatever they want to play with it. But, on the other hand, it is so important. I like to read a sutra, means Buddha himself said, [Tibetan] 0:15:43.4 Buddha said all this, the crops, they rise and wheat and for Tibetans it’s barley, all of them are grown out of ground. Without ground, there cannot be anything that type of growing. Likewise, all the positive qualities that we have, everything grown out of this basic morality. The basic morality. From that basic morality and then you add up, like you know, compassion, like water like compassion, add up on that basic morality like ground, add up compassion like water. And then, what good quality or spiritual developments or all of them are grown. So, it is one thing to ignore morality. But, on the other hand, it’s equally so important for us. If our basic moral system is wrong, then everything can go wrong, everything. Nothing can be right. That is Buddha himself said. So, in short, all spiritual development, either talked in the sutra or tantra, both. Sutra and tantra, both, depends on the proper morality. A lot of people thinks or even interpreted, even say it and propagate, you don’t need morality for spiritual development, specially in Vajrayana, which is not true according to Buddha. [..] Buddha himself said [Tibetan] 0:18:12.0 So, he says, he’s talking to his disciples, he said, fellow disciples, if you have good morality for long time, you’re going to develop shamata. If you have good shamata for long, that makes your wisdom remain with you for very long time. And if you have strong, good wisdom, then you can get, you can make your mind free of obsession, hatred and ignorance. See, it is really simple, straightforward layout. Build the morality nicely. On top of that, build concentration. Ones build another. Then, you have the wisdom. If you don’t have the basic morality, then you loose everything. I know, in this country, sometimes the moral issue is something very strange. Everybody had it’s own interpretation of morality and everything. I think because a big country, lot of people with a lot of wisdom. And so, I guess that’s what it is. But, really, according to the Buddha’s teaching, that’s what it is. So, your mind can be free from those obsession, hatred, and ignorance by building those three higher trainings. In another words, what is our goal of spiritual practice? To get ourself liberated from the suffering and to become totally enlightened. So, what blocks that? That confusion. 0:20:45.5

Sometimes, it refers as true existence perception. Sometimes, it refers as dualistic feelings. But, in short, the people give lot of different names, but in short, it is the ego perception that really blocks us, hold us. To challenge that is the wisdom. The real essence of developing vipassana type of wisdom is shamata or concentration and that based on the perfect morality. [Tibetan] 0:21:54.7 One of the great earlier Tibetan master who actually wrote the commentary to the bodhisattvacharaavatara, he says [Tibetan] 0:22:10.5 without proper morality you cannot fulfill your own purposes. If you want to fulfill other’s benefit, it is nothing but laughing stock. If you can’t help it, yet you try to help others, it’s joke, it’s laughing stock, that’s what he’s saying. So, [Tibetan] 0:22:44.1 here it says, without having a proper morality, one who says I have great concentration power and great spiritual development is huge lie. It’s huge lie. So, the morality is extremely important. The moral things are very, very important. Lot of people like ignore the moral issue. They think well, some people say the moral issue is for those people who are not so intelligent. Some people say that. Some people say it is old religion’s slogan, it’s not applicable for us. And, I think they are all wrong. But, also the moral issue is another point. And what does morality really mean to us? I think that’s very important. And specially these days, we have so many issues. You know, earlier, in the time of the Buddha and all that, it is very small issue. Really, the morality is even you hurt someone, even you hurt people, in a very limited way. Whatever you do, those days, the consequences and effects are not so big as today. Today, with the scientific development and all this, every consequences are huge compared with those days. Those days, you know like you cannot kill cow, you can kill cow, you cannot kill cow. We’re talking about cow, you know. Or this holy animal you shouldn’t kill, you should kill, you can eat pork, you cannot eat pork, you can eat beef, you cannot eat beef. It is different time in those days. It’s no big deal, really, though the earlier great spiritual leaders made it big deal. It is big deal at that time. Today, it’s not big deal. It’s not big deal. So, it’s not that big deal. But, now you know it’s any, because of this scientific development, anything we do wrong and that will affect tremendous amount of people. That is a big deal. It is really a big deal. If you go to war, the earlier wars are you know, one hero comes from there, and another comes there and get two knives and get one killed and whatever. Today, it is not that way. If it goes in war, how many people going to killed? Of course, we’ve also seen it, you know, we have to get Iraq. If you get Saddam Huessien, I have no problem with that. But, if you killed so many innocent people, it’s a big problem. That is moral issue today. And then, of course you have those scientific developments. 0:27:32.4

Almost everything, the medicines, the pills work differently than before. It all makes difference. So, you look you in the genome projects, you’re going to provide a different type of, category of human beings. I don’t want to repeat. I’ve been talking that so long. So, you all remember. This type of things are very moral issue today. So, I’ve been talking with Dianna for maybe a year, what we been talking, something whether you can have… whether you’re having sex here and there. Old issue, today there is tremendous amount of moral issue. So, we really have to be very careful. This moral issues are concerned of each and every human being. And specially those of us who are on the spiritual path, it’s very concerned for us. Because, it’s the fundamental basis of spiritual development lies on that. As I told you earlier, remember, how it builds on top of another. Morality built, then concentration built. You know, without morality, no matter how many months and years you meditate, you’re not going to develop shamata, I can guarantee you that. Every effort, you may get a little more power of concentration, that’s all. You’re never going to develop shamata. Because, it is built on top of another. So, that’s moral issue. Morality, then concentration and then wisdom. That is how they are built on each other. Without wisdom, we’re never going to get liberate. We’re never going to get enlightened, forget it. So, it is become a fundamental issue. Remember we used to talk about guru devotional practice, root of all development of guru devotional practice. Likewise, here, root of spiritual points here is fundamental morality. This moralities are so important for us. Particularly, keeping our own vows intact, it is very easy way for us to do. And that also, you can boil to, really boil down to five major points, killing a human being, stealing, and what are those? Sexual misconduct, lying, add up intoxication, that makes five. You know, bottom line for us is even that much is important. So, this are basically when you take refuge to Buddha, dharma and sangha, what you not to do is that. That’s your vow. That’s your commitment. And keeping that, killing is not everything, you know cannot. You drive a car, you’re going get a lot of insects underneath for sure. No doubt. We’re not talking it. It’s killing a human being. Stealing something very valuable that hurts the other people. If you steal somebody’s penny, or wooden nickel or something, it doesn’t count. You just don’t chop off somebody’s hand, because somebody steal a wooden nickel. So, that is not right. And then lying, also you know like the used car dealers, that type of lie is not talking about here. Here you’re talking about big, black lie. I am somebody, I developed something, I have seen, I had vision, I have seen this and that. Even you have seen it, make sure it’s correct. Because, you never know it’s vision or delusion or hallucination or dream or know half sleep half awake, could be hallucination or something. By doing that, not only misleading, you’re also misleading yourself. Even you have it, good ones, keep it for yourself. Don’t talk to other people. And then, if it’s really true one, it will come more and more and more and more, stronger and stronger and stronger and it proves to be correct and correct and correct for hundred times, then you begin to see it may be something. Otherwise, two, three things that you thought about it happened it called coincident. Don’t make yourself something which you are not. That becomes that big, black lie. 0:34:26.4

And then, you know you can’t figure out it is whether it is person really telling you something truly or just a thing. For example, when Allen Ginsberg passed away, a couple of months later, quite a number of well known American Buddhist teachers talked to me and saying I saw Allen on the road and he said you help tremendous. And I don’t even know what to say. I was embarrassed myself. But, the person who tells me, they don’t get embarrassed. So, I keep my head down. I don’t know what to do. Maybe it’s true. They seen it. Maybe it’s just making up story. Or, maybe it’s hallucination or something. It’s not right. So, even it’s true, you don’t want to say about it. You want keep it. [Tibetan] 0:35:45.4 So, every quality you have to hide like that of burning lamp inside a bowl. So, you hide. You don’t show it. You know, if you show it, there is danger of becoming that black lie. So, it’s always better. And then, there’s no danger of misleading others. If it’s proved to be more than hundred times, then you may say few words, few things here and there, you may suggest as maybe that’s better for you. But, you figure out, you find out. That is how the tradition taught me. But, in this country, you know, if you have little bit of something, then you know. As I remember, that’s about twenty years ago, somebody’s telling me I have seen clear light. So, again it’s very well known person. You know, I was very embarrassed myself and then, keep on telling me, how it look like. It’s like a star, it comes. Oh, I see, okay, thank you. But, don’t you think it’s it great? I said maybe. Thank you. So, clear light is not star. We know that, right? Clear light is a procedure that happens within ourself. It looks like morning, everywhere not completely clear, but it’s like dawn. That type of feeling. There’s nothing like star. You know, bright star there. So, that sort of thing is that black lie. They’re not talking about used car dealers lie, they are talking about that type of lie. So, we have to be very careful. If you have your own development, if you seen those, it’s great. But, you don’t have to make it public thing, if you do, then you get these downfalls. There’s so much danger of misleading people. Because, spiritual path is uncharted territory. So, it is every individual will experience it’s own. So, if you mislead people, its tremendous downfall and thing and that’s why. Killing a human being, I don’t have to talk to you, you all know that, how terrible it is. And what is the consequences be. And intoxication is equally bad, that doesn’t mean, again, though the traditional teachings will tell you not even a drop should be drinking. But, that doesn’t really mean if you are alcoholic or something, that’s not right, I shouldn’t encourage. But, if you’re drinking a pack or something, I don’t think it’s talking about that. But, if you get drunk and intoxicated and loose your mind, that is they are talking about it, actually. So, in order to make it pure and thing, they go to the extreme of saying not even a drop. That’s what it is. But, on the other hand, there’s a big question. Some people who have Vajrayana commitment and in the Vajrayana tsoh, they have this alcohol, so people will ask question, what to do. It is just simply touch your finger on whatever and then taste. That’s good enough to keep the commitment. It doesn’t mean, I have a friend who I noticed in Ann Arbor, keep on saying I’m not drinking. I can smell. He said, no I’m not drinking. So, I smell. Oh, yeah, I had this inner offering. So, inner offering and tsoh offering, you have those whiskey, drinking by cups, whole thing, and say I’m not drinking. That’s not right. That’s not right. So, for commitments, just touch is enough if you’re not drinking at all. That’s good enough. But, the main objection really comes if you intoxicate yourself, you loose your control. That’s what it is. It’s not only alcohol, it applies all intoxicating materials, substance, everything, it doesn’t have to be. 0:41:15.1

Then, left is sexual misconduct. Sexual misconduct is if you hurt the other person. Very vivid example is the rape. And that type of hurting people is sexual misconduct. So, at least five of those, not killing a human being, not stealing property worth that hurt other people who loose whatever the value. You know, the law comes into one lane and you cannot go against that either. Then, what else, lying I talked to you. Really, that big, black lie, intoxication, at least that much, if you keep it pure, it will reach long way. And if we have a problem, everyday in the evening, you try to purify. If you don’t have a problem that day, be happy about it. So, that’s the, that’s what I’m talking about it. At least for us, but if you claim to be celibacy or monk or nun, they have different issue. Totally different, those of celibacy, they have different vow. For us, basically that five points are good enough. And, on top of that, I mentioned to you, the killing not only your killing somebody, but you’re contributing and putting towards killing of human being. They all go in that category. 0:43:38.7

So, that sort of pure vow, you can take it. Even there’s lay vows are there, whether you take vow or not vow, but that sort of basic five commitments. If you keep it pure, it will sort of give you a basis of spiritual development. Just like guru devotional practice gives you a place develop all others, one by one, just like that, this will give you a basic foundation of development. Without which, it is really difficult. And that differs, specially you’re decision making person. Decision making for the future of generations and future of mankind and then differs. It really differs, their morality really differs. So, that is important to be remembered. If you have that, that purity is representing a buddha for yourself, representing total enlightenment for yourself. That’s within you. That’s why traditional will say, like in case of Buddhism, they will say whether Buddhism exist or not exist depends on the morality exist or not exist. Pure sangha existence, pure sangha depends on the pure morality. And that individual have found you’re own representative of Buddha within you and that’s what you can keep it. That helps tremendously. So, in case, if we have broken those basic fundamental morality over here, and then even we think we can do something great with Vajrayana, it is not true, according to the Buddha. It is Manjushri root tantra, that is wisdom root tantra says [Tibetan] 0:47:09.4

He said those who are breaking this basic morality, they can achieve no spiritual development, highest spiritual development they cannot achieve. They cannot achieve middle level spiritual development. They cannot even lowest level of spiritual development. [Tibetan] 0:47:38.1 One who broke basic morality, Buddha never said they can achieve Vajrayana through tantra. [Tibetan] 0:47:52.1 So, such a people, how can they develop spiritual development, forget about it. How can they develop even Vajrayana development with them? [Tibetan] 0:48:07.3 So, when you don’t have basic perfect morality, how can you have good life? How can you have liberation? What Buddha shared of the Vajrayana practice are not eligible for them. So, that’s what it is. So, sometimes, we badly misunderstood, particularly in this country. We say we can ignore the basic morality, then some wise way or skillful way or something within the certain excuse and contacts which is definitely not at all. So, here, Buddha made very clear statement. One who doesn’t have morality does not have Vajrayana or spiritual development at all. So, at least much. Okay. So, basically, then of course as the time goes, as I say, the time changes and the basic morality also changes very much. If we cannot live up that, if you try to insist basical morality is whether you’re going to eat beef or not going to eat beef or going to eat pork or not going to eat pork. We are back, way back, we’re left there. Now, we have to move according to the time and it is effect and it is consequences. Even the scientific effects had very strong basic morality issues. And, I say this because in Jewel Heart, at least I know there are a number of scientists who are them. So, they can help themselves. And that is important. Because, they keep on making decision of the future of people down the road, 25 years or 50 years from now. They keep on making decision now in their laboratory with their white coat. Really. No one knows they are making the decision, except good scientist, they are aware of it, rest of them, they don’t even know. None of us will know, but it will effect to our life down the road in one or two decades, we will see it. So, that’s where this morality will come. And everyone of us, whatever we do during our lifetime, you know, really, we have to see is this goiong against basic principle or not? Then, if you conduct our life in that way, nothing can go wrong. 0:51:27.2

Nothing can go wrong for us. We are very fortunate to be born, to be in this sort of time, and period where so many thing happening. We can contribute and help tremendously or we can harm and hurt tremendously. We’re in this sort of period where this sort of guide, you know I only mentioned five, not 200 or 300 or this and that. Just simple five basic points. And anybody could do it. And then there are 24 hour vows or things like that. If you take very often, they’re helpful because 24 hours to keep pure is easy than life long. You know, at least you say, well I have vow today. So, I’m not going to do this and that, I’m going to postpone ‘til tomorrow. The benefits what we get is tremendous. When the Buddha’s life, at that time, every 253 they are protecting throughout their life and simple little one in our one day, today, we get more benefit today, because it is degenerated age, according to the Buddha. I don’t have scientific proof for that. But, that’s what it says. So, we do have great opportunity. So, whenever we are in that huge age, of you know, whatever we do it make tremendous difference at that level, we have benefit tremendous, we have disadvantage tremendous. So, it is opportunity in one way, to take advantage, and if you can’t, then you can’t. That’s what end of it. [..] 0:53:52.7

So, I guess since Sonam now arrived, we should stop. Just joking. So, that’s what I wanted to talk to you, basic morality today and next Thursday, I’ll be here next Thursday, right? [..] Okay.

Audience: I have a question about complacency and morality.

Rimpoche: What does that mean?

Audience: Being complacent, when you feel morally something is going on like I’m wrestling with the fact we may be going to war and killing millions of people, that I don’t feel morally is right. But, I’m complacent about it because I don’t know what else to do. So, am I therefore immoral, is my complacency an immoral act. Is complacency immoral? If you’re in a town and a mob goes by and they’re going to lynch somebody and you close your door and say I’m not going to deal with it, I can’t stop them, so I’m just going to close my door and not deal with it. Are you in fact being immoral?

Rimpoche: You know, it’s very interesting question. Extremely interesting, you know why? In this country, before and specially during the Vietnam war and all this, people did not pay tax, because they did not agree with the war. I’m not sure what does that do to the individual. It may be, you may be protecting yourself from the killing of thing, yet you may be getting the stealing thing, you know. On the other hand, you may be stealing the thing. So, what really should be doing is you disagree with this, you’re not in agreement with this, you’re opposed. But, we are in the society which we’re supposed to be with the majority’s choice. But, I don’t know whether it’s majority’s choice or it’s executive’s choice. Whatever it is. So, when you’re not agreeing with this, from your heart or from your conversation or in and out clearly we don’t agree. Yet, you pay your tax. I don’t think it is immoral at all. Because, if you agree with this and you go out for do that, unless there really is a valid reason, if it’s really valid, if it’s true, they’re going to have a nuclear bomb and throw out the world in a year if you don’t destroy now. If that really true thing, then of course, it is even in this Buddhist practice also say, in such circumstances, they do that. Like example given when Buddha was a ship captain and somebody going to kill 500 people. So, the ship captain has no choice but kill that person, was given that way, example. But, if it’s not true, then we’re killing millions of people for nothing. Nothing. It effects the ecology and effects everything, everywhere, makes everybody miserable. Then, that is not right. But, as an individual citizen, what do I do for me? If I don’t pay my tax, they’re going to catch me and I don’t want to get behind bar. And also, I don’t want stealing. So, I pay my tax. But, I disagree. My disagreement, I’ll keep it myself openly. So, when you disagree with that policy, but you’re simply paying your tax. You know, tax paying can be used a generosity practice. I talked that another time. I did talked, maybe it’s coming up with generosity, too. You got to pay, anyway. Whether you like it or not, so might as well use it to be generosity practice rather than just simply you got to pay. So, in that way, you can do. Disagree with the war and if the whole country goes, country goes. 0:59:54.1

Audience: So, basically complacency is not immoral.

Rimpoche: If you are in the position of making difference, yes. If you are not in the position of making difference, though each and every individual can make a difference. But basically, if you make big difference, then it becomes immoral. If you don’t make, it’s you and your family only and it doesn’t make that much difference. Somehow, you got to draw line there. I’m not even sure what I’m saying. But, I think that’s right.

Audience: With regard to sexual misconduct, other than rape, what would an example be that would effect our capacity to develop concentration?

Rimpoche: If you break your vows and commitments, it is sexual misconduct. If you have commitment of one-to-one, if you break that, it becomes sexual misconduct.

Audience: To get back a little more to Dianna’s question, when you were just saying in this fortune time that we live, that all of our actions have enormous consequences, so then wouldn’t the time’s action have an enormous consequence? So then, would it be immoral not to act in some small way? Whatever we can.

Rimpoche: Yeah, if you can act, it’s great. Whatever you can way. I did not encourage you not to act anything. But, question is, if you don’t do anything, if you disagreed and sit in there, will you get the downfall. That is the question. I’m not saying don’t act, just follow it. I’m not saying it. Okay, we have to be clear on that. I’m glad you asked that question. It makes more clear. Did somebody raise hand? Johnathan, what did you say?

Audience: We can all write letters to our congressmen and newspapers and things you can do, they add up.

Rimpoche: Great. But, even you can’t do anything. The question is, even you can’t do anything, do we, is that downfall, does that become immoral for us? That’s the question we are dealing. From that angle. I’m not saying don’t do anything. Please, don’t misunderstand me, okay? Stokes.

Audience: [..]

Rimpoche: Killing is killing, whether there is nuclear or there is no nuclear, killing is killing and you do get killing karma for sure. In positive way or negative way. You do get killing karma.

Audience: [..] The example you were giving, you said if you knew if they were developing weapon

Rimpoche: And, if they are going to misuse it. Developing nuclear weapon doesn’t mean much. We have nuclear weapons. The Russian have. The Indians have it now. You know. Pakistani’s have it. But, if they’re really going to misuse it. In that case, preventive measure is must to save much more life, if you have to sacrifice, that doesn’t mean we don’t get downfalls. We do get downfalls. We do get killing karma. But, it is not becoming that much immoral. Because, moral point of view, that is justifiable. Killing, yes. Killing karma will be there. It is a negativity even though you are saving even though, it is negativity. I believe that’s how it works. Gordon? 1:04:36.8

Audience: Most of these five round virtues make a lot of sense, they are really easy to understand, because you have impact, hurting another person. But, the intoxication doesn’t make as much sense to me. What is the basis for that?

Rimpoche: Okay, I tell you a story that I was told when I was kid. There was a sort of guy, monk or exmonk or whatever, spiritual practitioner, and somebody came and brought a sheep and young girl and told this guy, you want to rape this girl or you want to kill this sheep or you want to drink. You have three choice. So, the guy kept on think, I can’t kill a sheep, that’s killing, certain, I will not hurt the girl, because that’s not right for me. But, this is okay, I’ll drink. So, he drank. He got drunk. By the time when he woke up, he had killed the sheep, he had raped the girl. That’s reason why. Intoxication makes that. When you realize, it’s too late. I was told when I was little kid. That’s the kids story. Okay. So, looks like, next Thursday, what will the date be? 19th right? So, I’ll be here 7:30, New York. Okay.

[announcements] 1:09:01.5

Okay, now I’m going to close here, close shop. But, before close shop, we like to say whatever we learned here, can we put that into little practice. Practice means not necessarily sit down and meditate, but in your daily life, when you go out in the world, remember it. And see wherever you can help yourself. That is practice. Thank you.

[dedication]

Thank you.

[end of audio]