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Wisdom teachings NYC 05 Lam Rim Chen mo

Part II

Talk 7: 3-24-05

Thank you, and welcome tonight

We will be continuously reading. If there is anyone new, good luck. Because they really are not going to get anything. I doubt it, you know. And even if you missed anything in between, I think it will be a little difficult to catch up too.

Actually you should be looking into the outlines. The outline here actually is explaining the emptiness. Also, if you read the Lam Rim Chenmo, the translation, I don’t know. what page it comes in, but it says, according to the Tibetan De kho nan ni lang dzung pa ren pa da dre kho nan ni....??? “How one gets into this suchness, and how you establish the suchness.” There are two basic outlines. Do they have an outline put in on another page? Upper or lower or somewhere? Or do you have to find the outlines in the middle?

Audience: at the table of contents, chapter 9 is “The Stages of Entry into Reality”

Rimpoche: Entry into reality they call it. OK.

Audience: And then Chapter 10 is “Misidentifying the Object to be Negated”

OK, sRimpoche: o Tthe basic point here is: How to enter in., that is what it is. They call it Chapter 9? OK. I don’t read English, so I don’t know how to read it, that is my problem. So, when you look into this system of entering in. I think that is what we covered.

They introduced it to us, and said “what is our goal?”, and we said the nirvana is our goal. And we said “how does one get to nirvana? That is only by gaining this wisdom. So, I think that is basically it. Then they say, Aat the end, when you understand that "self", “me" and "my” – when all of them are free of inherent existence – when you understand that –ultimately – the completion of that is the suchness of this, and the dDharmakaya.. I think we have come up to that level the other day.

When they say that the ultimate goal you want to achieve is nirvana, that is also, since we are talking at the Mahayana level, this nirvana is not a usual nirvana, also known as . Or the hinayana “no more learning”. You know, there are the five paths. I am sorry, this is very complicated. There are also the three yanasWhen you look into every yana: (forget about the vajrayana): pratyekayana, sravakayana, and buddhayana. When you are looking into these three yanas, normally when you read something about Buddhism among the usual, normal things, you are going to say mahayana, hinayana and vajrayana. That is what is normally known. It is commonly taught in English. I do not know why, but that is nothing wrong, from the point of view of individual practice, that is what it is. But basically when you talk about the three yanas in the Tibetan, or in the Sanskrit, you are talking about sravakayana, pratyekayana and mahayana, rather than talking about hinayana, mahayana and vajrayana. That is exactly what it is. Sravakayana, pratyekayana and buddhayana.

The practitioners of the Svravakayana are the disciples of the Buddhas. They are known as nyen tu in Tibetan, nyen and tu, meaning “listened and heard”, meaning the just listen and don’t practice. This is referring to those who are practicing the hinayana path. They listen to the Buddha’s teaching of mahayana, but they don’t practice. They pass on the message, they carry the message. So there is [extended Tibetan quote??] It says “we listen and convey your message.” They behave like the postman or the post office. They deliver, they carry the message, they deliver. That is called svravakayana. They also have five paths, just like the mahayana.

Then you have pratyekayana. Pratyekayana means is “self liberated”. The period where the pratyekayana comes in is not all the time, only w. When there are no Buddhas, when there is no Buddhism, like in between the stage of 1000 Buddhas. They are self-taught, self-liberated. They are called the pratyekayana buddhas. Both are considered hinayana.

Buddhayana or the Mahayana has the sutra part and the tantra part. Both are considered mahayana. So, when you talk about the three yamas, when you are doing serious work like this, then we cannot go on saying “mahayana, hinayana and vajrayana”. We have to think “sravakayana, pratyekayana and buddhayana”.

Each one of them has five paths: 1) path of accumulation’ 2) path of action; 3) path of seeing; 4) path of meditation; 5) path of no more learning. The same name, the same thing, but different.

The path of no more learning in the sravakayana and pratyekayana is that they have completely exhausted all negative emotions. They have exhausted them all the way so they will never grow again. But their seed, their source, their effect is not completely cleared. Therefore, at the Buddha level, when you have the mahayana Buddha level of “no more learning”, that is the Buddha level. Nnot only the negative emotions, but also its seeds, its effects, its imprints, are all completely cleared. That is why it is called the mahayana: bigger achievement, bigger vehicle, bigger thing.

From the emptiness point of view, the wisdom point of view, whether you are sravakayana, pratyekayana or buddhayana, or even vajrayana, it is the same wisdom, no different wisdom; the same emptiness. Vajryayana has no special emptiness different from the emptiness shared by Buddha at sravaka, pratyeka, buddhayana and vajrayana. All are the same thing.

Here this text isey are talking about it. How? How does one get up to that level?. So again, it refers you back completely to the Four Noble Truths. Knowing the truth of suffering, and knowing where the sufferings are coming from. When you check in to what and how the suffering comes in, suffering doesn’t come in without cause. Suffering is not something that someone has granted to us. Neither the suffering, nor the joy, nobody has granted it to us. Nor has somebody imposed it on us. It is only our self who is our own manufacturer; our own manufacturer. (My mouth is almost slipping itthrough: “our own creator”. But, it is true: we are our own manufacturer. We manufacture our own joy and our own misery, both. That leads us from the First Noble Truth to the Second Noble Truth.

When you begin to see the Second Noble Truth, , it is coming from none other than our karma, and ultimately our negative actions. That deeply points down to negative emotions. That is the Second Noble Truth. That leads us to the Fourth Noble Truth, the Truth of the Path, which brings the Cessation, the Third Truth. Cessation means that something is finished, you are free of it. That leads to the path. Cessation is the Third. How does the Second Noble Truth level lead to the Fourth Noble Truth? Since we are in samsara, there is nothing but then trouble. Nothing but then trouble. That is the reality, no matter whatever we do. We may have great success, what we call success in our life, . tThe best success ever possible, the best health ever possible, the best wealth ever possible. Whatever we may have, at the end, the at [suffering??] will completely come, or weit will submit to it, we, it will lose, by pain and suffering and misery. Nothing can really – that It doesn’t end in glory at all. It always ends with something sad, though we try to make it as glorious as possible. When people die, we say it is wonderful, nice and peaceful, and all these are our common cultural things e that we will say. But how peaceful it really is, that, how really, it is a big question. Nobody else knows except the departing person. The departing person doesn’t come back and tell us “no, no, no, it is not glorious. No, no, no, it is suffering.” They won’t say that.

Our culture has also made it into something that looks nice. In addition to that, it is not like the old times. When somebody dies we pack them in a nice little funeral home. Then they are washed and dressed, and made up., and they do all these things. Again, it is made into that way. This is culture, nothing wrong, I am not criticizing. But we try to make it as best as we can, because that is what we see. That is what we feel. But, no matter how much we cover up, how much we do, how much we dress it up, how much make up we put on it, how much we comb the hair, whatever we do, actually we are doing it to a body whose tenant has just left. That is really the reality. No matter how glorious it looks, or how glorious we make it, it is ended with suffering.

That also is not an easy thing. It is difficult. It is not easy. No one can says it is easy when you die. It is not easy. Normally we talk about it asis wonderful, blah, blah, it is natural, blah blah blah, all this. True, but not easy. Mind you, this body and this mind really depend on each other. The body is the base. The mind is – Tthe person is the one who occupies that base. And it is separating. When you have lived together throughout your life, ever since you were born, even before, throughout you have lived together. When you separate, you have to separate that, it is not going to be easy, no matter whatever, whoever, says what. It is not going to be easy at all. We know that.

So why do we have all of them? Why? Not once, not twice, n. Not thrice, but one after the other, repeatedly, repeatedly?. We take itthis for granted that you are accepting reincarnation. We are talking from that angle. This teachign is presented from that angle. Repeating one after another, this thing is happening. Why? Because it is samsara, b. Because it is circling. That is the reason why we have Buddha’s normal statement, stating:

“Samsara is suffering. Nirvana is peace.”

His normal statement.

When you want to move yourself from suffering to peace, you move yourself from samsara to nirvana. You transfer yourself. Samsara is suffering, nirvana is peace. That statement tells us that if you want to make yourself joyful, peaceful, nice, wonderful, then transfer yourself from samsara to nirvana. There is no other way, as far as Buddha knows. It is bBased on the Buddha’s experience, based on the thousands of disciples – maybe millions – who have followed through Buddha and who have obtained that stage. According to them, that is the way.

Then the question arises, what is the best way to cut this samsara? What causes the samsara? What makes the samsara function? Samsara is continuously functioning because there is a mechanical system in great that keeps of moving samsara moving. that is in gear. It is in gear. It is moving. What is thate mechanical system? It is the karma and the delusions. That is why they say the Second Noble Truth, the Truth of Cause, is divided into two categories: causal and delusional. Actually, our karma and delusion. Actually karma is the direct cause. If we do not create karma, there is not going to be a result, for sure. It is the karmic reality, or karmic system, or natural karmic law, whatever. Anyway, that is the basic system that is functioning in that way.

What is the cause of that? The cause is the negative deeds we do. Why do we do the negative deeds? We know, we are not very convinced, but we somehow know that if Iyou hurt someone, I get hurt too. If you punch someone, someone will punch you back too. However, we can’t stop. We keep on doing it. Why? No matter how many people try to do their best, . Nno matter how much you try, we will repeat the same old mistake, again, and again, and again, forever. That is what is really going on. That is because, tThen, of course, a lot of us, a lot of people, a lot of spiritual paths, try to reduce, or even try to negate, or try to eradicate all negative actions. All morality is all about that. Whether you look in the East or the West, or whatever you do, that is what it is all about: . Negativities. tThe reduction of negativities. That is what it is all about.

Or Ppeople try to overcome hatred. People try to overcome obsession. People try to overcome jealousy. Each and every one of them, every negative emotion, we try to challenge them. When you try to challenge them, you are working against a countless number of emotions, one after another. TThis is what this is talking about. You keep on attacking one negative emotion, then another one, another one, another one, another one, continueously. ... Even obsession, if you have handled one obsession, then out comes another one, another one, another one. When you overcome that, it is replaced by another one. That is replaced by another one, unless and, until we really work at the root cause of it.

All negative emotions are rooted in one root. That is the reason why hatred brings obsession. Obsession brings hatred. That is why love and hate come together. It is normal American talk. Yeah, it has truth in it. All of those are, because it is rooted at one level. Now, what Buddha, at the wisdom level tells you, thenis this: how are you going to cut this? What are you going to do? You cannot keep on chopping the branches of the tree all the time, because in the sSpring they will grow again. So you will keep on doing the same thing again, and again, and again, and again. It is important for us to recognize and get where it is really rooted.

Cutting the branches is great. But why not go for the root, once and for all?. Remember? Wisdom. We need to know what the root is. If we get it, if we get at the root, we will see how samsara is functioning by karma and delusion. When we understand that, we have to reverse this huge wheel that is running in one direction. Somehow, we have to reverse that. Otherwise it is running towards one direction, it is only giving us suffering. In between that they may give you a little picnic spot here, a picnic spot there, just to encourage you a little bit. Otherwise it will be traveling [troubling??]. Therefore, it has to be reversed.

When you are wanting to reverse it, it is only the wheel that we see. There is nothing to cut in between. No matter wherever you are going to cut it, it joins together, except at the root level. So for the practitioner, the question becomes: “What is the root of this?” “Why is this going on?” This is going on because we have this horrible thing called ‘jig lta, or ignorance, or not knowing. Why is it horrible? Because it filters all our thoughts. It makes us confused. It gives us a dualistic point of view. Because of that, we are confused, we have a dualistic thing, and we continuously create suffering, and make sure samsara continues. In other words, ‘jig lta’s responsibility is to make sure that the individual person remains in samsara, and that samsara is well maintained. So, how is ‘jig lta the root of samsara? That is our challenge.

Once we know this, once we know this, once we truly understand this, then we begin to challenge the ‘jig lta and we develop the strong desire within us that we want to be separated, we really want to eradicate the whole ‘jig lta ignorance, whatever that isthose are, completely out of ours system. This is the first motivation, looking into wisdom.

The question really arises: “Is it ever possible for a human being, like me, to be able to cut that ‘jig lta completely?” If you are intelligent, yes. If you do not have such great intelligence, you may have difficulties, but basically, everybody is eligible to become fully enlightened. Therefore, it is possible. The question really comes: How? How do I cut this ‘jig lta?”

You have to find out what ‘jig lta does, and what the main focus is that ‘jig lta puts on. We find that ‘jig lta’s main focus is “self”. What kind of self - , that will come later. The wayAs ‘jig lta is projecting or perceiving “self”, and when we know it doesn’t really and truly exist that in the way and how that ‘jig lta perceives it, . Tthat perceiving mind we call wisdom, actually. For such a wisdom to grow within us totally depends on us seeing how ‘jig lta perceives self, what kind of self this is. Is, is it an independent self, or is it a dependent self, or is it an a priori self? Or is the self that the irreducible essence?. Or is the self the indivisible being, or not even a being, but an indivisible thing? Or what is it? That becomes necessary, because we have to see that ‘jig lta is wrong. As long as we don’t see that ‘jig lta is wrong, there is no way that we can reduce or reverse that big wheel that is going in one direction continuously - . lLike a the rolling stone, rolling down from the high hills. To reverse it, to push it back, we have to see this. That is why it becomes necessary.

All other practices: love, compassion, purification, all of them. Ye lha de dha tam jey ney tu bey she rab dön du sol ??? TheAs the Bbodhisattvacharyavattara says:

All other practices: love, compassion, purification, all of them all of these, Buddha has shared them with us in order to develop this wisdom.

It is a difficult and boring subject, boring, it doesn’t make sense at the beginning. Things don’t add up together as we talk. But at the end they all do. But for a long time it doesn’t. The reason why it doesn’t, for us, is that ‘jig lta has filtered our thoughts. That is why it doesn’t make sense, and you don’t want to do it, and all of those.

When the uUnderstanding of selflessness or “I-lessness”, and when it is really fully developed, fully matured, completed, we call it dharmakaya. The dharmadhatu is the one who enjoys – the one who enjoys that. It is – I hate to use the word – the “kick” you get out of attaining dharmakaya. For example, , Like if you are drinking, you drink and there is a kick, . You know, there is a kick, or if you are doing whatever, so you get that sort of a high from in it. One enjoys, and I think that is called dharmadhatu. That is why it becomes necessary. In Tsongkapa’s Lam Rim Chenmo here it says [Tibetan phrase???] “This is absolutely necessary if you are seeking liberation.” I am sure it is there.

Then how do you do it?the “how”. What is this dharmakaya you are talking about? How does one get it? It is jJust like we explained above, that “self”, which I call the “I and my”, the translation here says “self and that belonging to the self”. Right? That is how they address this. Neither “I”, nor “my”, any one of them, whatever it is, there is not a single thing which is truly, naturally, inherently existent. It is never there. That understanding, not only as understanding and meditating – Ffirst you have to understand. If you don’t understand, you cannot meditate. When you have some understanding, you meditate. As The result of the meditation, both analytical and concentrated, you gain some experience. That experience is called “view”. That is a very great stage. Not only just a view, It is the view that clearly sees that “I and “my” do not have the slightest inherent existence. That view, when you meditate, will be improving, improving, improving, and finally there is nothing more to grow. That level is called dharmakaya. At the ultimate level of the Buddha, that is called dharmakaya. That is the stage we are seeking. From every Buddhist point of view, for spiritual practitioners, that is what our object is, that is what we are seeking.

The question arises: “can love and compassion alone deliver this?” The same question was asked by earlier masters, and the same reply was given by Dharmakirti [Tibetan phrase??] So Hhe says,

that Llove-compassion, etc., is not a direct contradiction to this ignorance, or ‘jig lta. Therefore, love-compassion cannot destroy this. In order to destroy this, you need only this wisdom.

This wisdom alone can deliver theat goods. But that wisdom, without compassion, it doesn’t work, again. Compassion becomes necessary. That is why, no matter whoever or wherever you look, any Tibetan schools or thoughts will all say

toung nyi ning yeji nyingin po che - , meaning the

emptiness is in the essence compassion.

There is no one who says there is no need. Without compassion, it becomes sravakayana, prateykayana. It doesn’t become buddhayana. That is what it is. This part is in the Lam Rim Chenmo. That says this is dharmakaya. This is how you obtain dharmakaya.

IIf you look in the beginning of the madyamaka texts, Nagarjuna the praisesing to the Buddha. as

by Nagarjuna, he says [extended Tibetan quote, then interspersed parts of it with the next phrases]. One who sees interdependencedentness, one who doesn’t come, one who doesn’t go, one who is not separate, one who is one oneness, . oOne who does not manifest.

“One who does not manifest” is referring to this particular dharmakaya. “One who does not manifest” means you do not have any manifestation. It means you do not have any more dualistic viewpoints, and that is why it is called dharmakaya. That is the ultimate thing the practitioners meditate, and that is the ultimate thing the practitioners get. Nyi nennan gey tdrul pe nang l wa ??? - tThe dualistic manifestations , of dualistic, and theirits imprints are all completely cleared.

In other words, our problem is dualistic perceptions. Dualistic perceptions, Wwe somehow knoew there is something ultimately pure or something, yet we do not see this, we see something else. That is dualistic. It is not like when you have a camera. , and Yyou try to focus on the nose, you see two noses when the focus is not right. We are not talking about that dualistic… – or maybe we are talking about it.

What does this show us? It really tries to convince us, tries to tell us that the root is ‘jig lsta. I’d rather conclude with that, because otherwise, it is goes for so long. If you read the Lam Rim Chenmo, Tsong Khapa quotes from again, there is Chandrakirti’s Clear Words. , and there are some quotations. Chandrakirti’s – there is another quotation here that comes in. It is called “Clear Words”. The quotation in Tibetan isThat is tsik tsel. Tsik is word, tsel is clear. Thword, erefore : Clear Wordsso clear word. In his this Clear Words, Chandrakirti says that, at the beginning, it is the delusions – or what normally translators call “afflicting emotions” – that are the cause and that cause the creation of ed karma. That and that karma then creates the results, including our body, and in there is the creator of that karma, the being.

The being within the body that you have created experiences good and bad results, and they are dependent on each other. That seems to be true. If that is true, there must be truly, absolutely, depending on that manner. If that is absolutely dependent on that manner, it that absolutely exists. If it absolutely exists, how can you change it? Because it is absolutely existing there, how can you change? Or, is this dre ko nani? Is this suchness? They reply is:, no, that is not suchness. ItThat is not truly existent, but it functions that way. They give Tthe example is of ti sel trong cheir??? I don’t know, it is some kind of ghost town. You are In our translation reading there, they have a name for this: . Phantom Ccity - , the cityies where the smell eaters travel alone. [Discussion to clarify the term]

Whether phantom city is the right word or not, phantom city, the real example is the hologram. It is like a hologram. It does exist, it does function, but it functions like a hologram.

Audience: It says phantom city, page 120 of volume 3.

Rimpoche: What is a phantom city, anyway?

Audience: ghost town.

Rimpoche: See, that is exactly what I said. In Tibetan it doesn'tthey don’t say ghost town. It says ti sel trong cheir . Tibetans have so many divisions ofon t these spirits. So, this is one of them they say “those are smell eaters, the only eat smell”. Toe jams, they love toe jams. [laughter from audience] Just joking.

The smell eater’s city, they call it. It is very much like – not only in the Tibetan tradition, but also in Western culture, I have seen movies also – I wish I could remembered – there are a lot of things you see that really do not truly exist, but theyit functions. The hologram is very, very interesting. Or, in Star Trek, they have the thing where they go and have holidays, what they call is it, the "holodeck". So you can have a whole completely functioning exercise playing, a beautiful city, whatever you think, it gets there, and the individual can enjoy it there, though it is not really, but it is a hologram production. This is exactly the example.

They say this dependent [existence???] is also dependent like that. If you are on the holodeck and you are playing there, you are having fun, or whatever you are doing, you very much depend on this electronic holo-movement, whatever it is, that view, and all of those. You depend on that. If one collapses, everything will collapse. But as long as one doesn’t collapse, they all function there. It becomes sort of reality for that. In other words, I think the Buddhas tryied to tell us that we are all living in that holodeck. We are seeing the "not nice ones". We are seeing the ultimate destructive nature, and that is why they call it the "perishable vegetables". I am sorry, the perishable aggregates. Easy to become, straightaway it can go. So, like the delusions, the karma, the creator, the experience, all of them are naturally, from theirits own true nature, it is not there. It, it is not a suchness, but we see it asis really true, and we see it asis really suchness. So that is howwhy we are cheated. We are lied to. We are living in a not a real reality. In other words, the Buddhasy say we have to get beyond this.

It is amazing. For us, what is really happening is really as good as it gets. However, they tell us, that is not reality. As good as it gets, they tell us it is not reality. That gives us a lot. Something much more, beyond that, we have to see. I think almost the wholeall the idea of going beyond, gone, gone, gone beyond, all those, I think gives – tryies to – all talks, about thatall of those together anyway.

Then the question arises: , if that is not reality, then what you are talking about here, yyour result, your method, your practice, your generosity, etc, ., all these are not reality.

It is the same thing, the parallel to that the Bbodhisattvacharyavattara raises the same question: i. If they are all not reality, why are you troubling yourself?. Why are you giving trouble to yourself to be generous, to have morality, to have patience, why are you doing this?,? Because that is not reality. Ultimately, getting enlightenment is not reality. Ultimately, getting free is not reality. They are all dualistic. All are holograms. Then why bother? That question arises.

The answer is not given here, it is given later. But atin our level, if you don’t have an answer then everyone is unhappy. The answer – I always keep on telling a funny thing – Tthere is an English sentence I cannot make straight, always. That is, I used to say

“iIf we do not existt, truly, it does not mean we do not exist. And if we do exist, relatively, it is good enough to be existent”.

I can never make that straight, anyway, but t. That is the answer. That is the reason why there are two truths. Otherwise it is so simple to give one truth. We all say, truth is truth, it is one, there is no problem you will look for. . But the Buddhas always tell us there are two truths, not one. Maybe the total knowledge is maybe, all the lawyers, you know. The total knowledge must be knowing all the faults of the laws, and advantages of the law, so they give you two truths. I think that was the answer. If you don’t have an answer, we are not happy.

There is again the Chandrakirti’s Clear Wordss, comments in there, exactly as we have stated above. The system here is that every statement they will is proven it by one quotation and one logical reason, at least. The quotation here is fromis putting Chandrakirti’s words, saying, "Uultimately, when you have finished or , exhausted the “I and my” perceptioniving (they call this “mystic perceiving”), when that is completely exhausted, that is called peace or . It is called peace, nirvana. This, that is ultimately what we aim for, this is what we meditate for, this is the dre kho nan ni, which is suchness. This the is dre kho nan ni of sangye ge chu po nye drö???, which means Buddha’s dharmakaya.

I guess now we have come to the system of how to enter into this. I don’t know whether we can cover it today, probably not. So, for me it is number six, how to enter into reality. – because this, I noticed that the outline in English and the outline in Tibetan don'tesn’t tallytell it, at all. In English I think they made an easy system of outlines, it looks to me. Maybe not, maybe I am wrong. I have a very difficult time to put these two together.

O.K. I said the other day I would give you time to ask several questions.

if people have them. Because I said last time that I would give you time for questions, if I don’t, then it is not right. Go ahead:

Audience: You said that emptiness is the same for hinayana, mahayana, etc. and presumably the experience of it is the same, so what I am confused about is that if that is true, why the difference in the viewpoints about what reality really is, like the Mind Only school, the Madyamaka. I would think they would all view reality the same way. Why the difference in “this exists for this reason, but this doesn’t really exist”?. They all seem to be very different. If the experience is the same, why doesn’t everybody agree about what really exists out there or doesn’t exist out there?

Rimpoche: I myself always wondered that too, wondering why.. I think the answer is: each one of their viewpoints of emptiness is emptiness. The quality of the emptiness differs. The quality differs. It is like it is all – I have an example, I just forgot – making sushi. All sushis are sushis, but there are different qualities. I think that is really the answer. That is the reason why the later schools – I mean, besides, each one of them presents their own school, but both in India and in Tibet, I am talking about 2000 years – what they do is they present the viewpoints, and ultimately they choose, they say Nagarjuna’s viewpoints are the best. That is what they say. But no one is wrong. It is , it is sushi, it is sashimi, but not.the same quality... They all have a truth, but the quality differs. It is improved. The quality differs because the object of negation differs. When you get the really truth of the object of negation right, then you get the best quality of emptiness. Otherwise you get number two, number three, number four, number five. All of them you do get, and that is emptiness.

Because I wondered that myself for a long time. I think that is what it is.

Audience: So we should presume that the madyamaka is the best quality?

Rimpoche: We are presuming – [interrupted by phone ringing]. We are not only presuming that Nagarjuna’s viewpoint is the best, but those words we rely on, the teachings, they all tell us that Nagarjuna’s viewpoint is the best one. For that matter, for the Tibetan traditions, whomever you talk to, Sakya, Nyingma, Kagyu, Geluk, any school. I don’t know what the Bonpos’s say. The bonpos are [could not hear words???] They all say they are following Nagarjuna, but I am sure the interpretations differ. I think there are points our intelligence can catch without danger of making a mistake. And there is a level where our intelligence at this moment cannot catch it until we improve. When you reach to that level, youwe have no alternative except to rely on someone who knows better. That is common, normal, even in the West, it is normal. Someone who has recorded and has truly found things, we rely on that record. Here we do the same thing.

What we are getting from all these teachings and books, all of them are telling us that Nagarjuna is the best. That is why, at the beginning here, Nagarjuna and Arayadeva are called is also – they divided into great umapas, great madyamakas. , that is Nagarjuna and Aryadeva. They are called the great umapas. Then the explanations copmes that are slightly different, likethen it goes Buddhapalita, Chandrakirti, Bhavaviveka, and all others. , sort of dividing into it. Then we bring Tsongkhapa to that level, not only Tspongkhapa, but also again, all the Tibetan schools will follow Chandrakirti and Buddhapalita.

Then they are no longer called the great madyamakas. Then they are divided into – after the great madyamakas – Wwhy do we call Nagarjuna and Aryadevathem great? Because both sides accept. They are great. When you divide the followers of madyamaka, there areThen they call this the tal gyur wa, who areit is totally relying on reasoning, and the other is rang gyu pa, who are not totally relying on reasoning, but sort two little things come out.

Ultimately, it seems they all try to follow the tal gyur wa system. When you get to the tal gyur wa system... Up to the rang gyu pa level, the different schools y always have some kind of object, what we call it, it is self, or the name, or whatever. They always have something. That something is what we keep on searching for all the time. Why they want to search for it, ? Wwhen you want to search for it, you keep on negating it. When Yyou find “that’s not right, that’s not right, that’s not right”. When you are finding it, then ultimately you see what you can really get it. Or do you really get it? And if there is nothing to get, then maybe there is nothing.

Up to the tal gyur wa level, there is something, they try to make it. So that is why, you know, they talk about the irreducible essence, and then indivisdible essence, all of those, or independent existent self, or the independent self free from the delusions and karma, or separate from the mind, oneness with the mind, separate from the body, oneness with the body, or the body- mind combination of something. A, all kinds of different points will come up. And the reason why we are tracing that is because each one of them we will catch hold of it, see whether it is right or wrong, check it, then find it, what it is. Ultimately we see what is really right. That is the idea.

At this level, we get – Tthe other day I mentioned to you the irreducible essence. Indivisible is very common, a lot in traditions in the West. They tell you that, indivisible, nothing can be divided any more. [Rephrase: The idea that there is something indivisible, something that cannot be divided any more, is common in a lot of traditions in the West. ???]. Forget about Nagarjuna - for , from anybody in the Buddhist thought, this is not even possible, for a very simple reason. Whatever it is, no matter how subtle, from the form, material point of view, no matter how subtle it is, it is divisible. It is very simple. Why? Because, the moment you produce it, you produce it in space. The moment I bring my glass here, I produce this in space. This is space. I put my hand in, it is space. Whatever I have produced in space, it will cut the space. Space is empty, this is form. It comes in and cuts space. The moment it cuts, it cuts the directions, east, west, north, south, up, down, both, straightaway. The moment it cuts, no matter how subtle it might be, the moment it cuts, there is an east side and a west side, and that is division. That is very simple, straightforward.

Then you say mind. Mind has no form, there is nothing to divide into east and west. But mMind has time: past, present and future. You are never going to say yesterday’s me is today’s me, unless you are crazy. Nor are you going to say tomorrow’s me is today’s me. you are never going to say it. So it is just divided. Even there is no form, mind is also divisible. divides. That shows you that there is nothing called indivisible. Very simple, straightforward.

Just like that, irreducible essence is another one. Independent self is another one. Interdependent self is another one, and all of them, there will be a very simple way of looking through that. Anyway.

OK, Becky, you have come all the way from Philadelphia, I’d better give you an opportunity.

Audience: Rimpoche, a few weeks ago, I don’t remember exactly when, but I probably have this wrong, so I wanted you to clarify it for me. I thought you were sayingtalking about that the true dualistic perception meansis looking at the difference between me and what I do. But I may have that wrong – do you remember saying something like that, between I and I do?

Rimpoche: probably “I and my”, do you mean that?

Audience: I probably heard it wrong. I thought it was between yourself and an action that you might do.

Rimpoche: What do you mean? Yourself and your actions are two different things. There is no problem with that. Is there a problem? I am not my action, my action is not me. It is quite simple, I think. If I am my action, that becomes a problem. Or if I and my action become one, there will be a big problem.

Thank you. Maybe I will call it a day. I am sorry.

A couple of things. I have to tell you about the Buddha image. I got a new note on Tuesday, last time I told you it was $61,000. Now it has come to $82,000. So it is coming up very well, thank you. Still not there yet.

Then I have these two: Spring Retreat, May 27 through May 30. Then we have the summer retreat:is: “Be Fearless, Choose Love”. Jewel Heart presents Tara Retreat with Gehlek Rimpoche, June 19 through 25th, Albion College, Michigan.

We always enjoy our retreats. Just to remind you, so if you keep it, we are looking forward to both retreats, the springummer retreat and, the Tara retreat.

I’ll be here next Thursday, three more Thursdays, because this is a six week segmenttage. So the next three Thursdays I’ll be here. Looking forward we will continuously go through. As I said, the other day, there are some people who will be interested to do this detailed study. I hope you are finding a way to function. I think the Jewel Heart - , I had a talk with the Jewel Heart administrative people – they are happy to be accommodating.

03/28/2005But still, we need someone who really – screen a couple of people – so you will have it, ultimately if you ... [end of streaming audio]