Archive Result

20050528GRGRMRMOM3

Questions and answers:

000046 Rimpoche: Okay, good afternoon everybody, sorry I was a little slow here... So try to figure out where I am so okay now we will be continuing what we’’ve been talking earlier I hope you people have a good discussion group and I’’m sure there are going to be a lot of questions but so we will deal with that later and right now what I would like to do this is not the time for answering questions right? it is oh I see I thought I’’m going to.... okay thank you this is answering and oh I see okay well that’’s interesting good actually it’’s good because it is just fresh okay let’’s go then who has it?

audience it is me

Rimpoche: Okay Clair...

Audience: it is on? It is on all right first off there are just a few just factual questions the first one is someone asks if you could give us the title of the text upon which you’’re basing the teaching?

Rimpoche: actually it is translated into English John Moraine showed me this he said mind in the Buddhist psychology and it is translated from the Tibetan by Harvard Guenter and Leslie (?) Karamoorah this is the text that I have in here and that was actually I’’m basing on this what I’’m looking is notes that have been exchanged here and there and things like that and this is interesting but I did not know it is available in English until John Moraine showed me it is you know it is Dr. Guenther 000329

is a German guy earlier I just looked at it because a few of those terminologies will be helpful for me 000342

But it is sort of interesting you will see it it is a little old-fashioned English oh I don’’t know you say old fashioned English or German English whatever it is some of them there.... yes Claire

Created and non-created things:

audience: okay sorry you have said that there are created and non created things and that within created things there are three sorts form formless and then the third which was not mentioned can you tell us the third?

Rimpoche: the third is known as Deh min do jay.... it is well I know in Tibetan but I don’’t know how to say in English Deh min do jay... and it is not so important either because for our dealing there if you’’re thinking there is a common of created and non created it is not Deh min do jay. is part of created ones and yes I think that I’’d like to leave it there thank you how many questions you have?

audience: a bunch but they come in three groups so we are in group one similarly among non created things can you give us some examples and is any part of the mind permanent or non created?

Rimpoche: no Buddha the concept of a Buddha is permanent living beings are permanent but normal very usual example is the sky but I think the sky is a human being isn’’t it? She is sitting right here (Rimpoche laughs)

audience: and then so if among things that are impermanent and interdependent (?)

Rimpoche: among things are...

Audience: if among the things that are impermanent

Rimpoche not impermanent

audience: that are impermanent

Rimpoche: they are impermanent

Audience: yes and interdependent what is the relationship between dependent arising and continuation

Rimpoche: what do you mean by that actually you know among the things.... impermanence are dependent arising actually everything is a dependent arising I mean the question I didn’’t get it if it’’s a dependent arising what is the relation ship between dependent arising and continuation impermanence are discontinued and yet it is a continuation right like I’’d like to use the Tummu Rimpoche’’s terminology continuation of discontinuity there are people who gives you idea like the mala pulled through the strings or the ice when joined together and all of those I’’m not sure whether they are good examples or not what’’s really... what it is impermanent really meaning here 000827

Gross impermanent and subtle impermanent

impermanent there’’s gross impermanent and subtle impermanent gross impermanent is very clear to us we are born we grow we develop we die we are committed or buried or whatever and then sort of then gone it’’s very gross in that way or the cups or glasses are there they are broke and all that so it’’s gone finished and these are very gross level of gross impermanence but the subtle impermanent is not even subtle you know subtle is even more subtle than that but the thing is changing continuously all the time even in our body if you look it we know it is growing it is getting older and we are getting you know so becoming more salt-and-pepper and then becomes snow white and all that type of thing everything it is sort of it doesn’’t happen overnight it is gradually happening it is continuously happening whether you’’re sitting or sleeping or walking or doing something else or whatever is happening constantly continuously changing and that is the reality that is what it is that’’s why we get difficulties in our physical body we are older and this and that all of them that’’s what happens so that is dependent arise and it is the impermanent and when you think about impermanent and I think you have to think about it more the subtle impermanent than that of gross impermanent gross impermanent is a big thing it’’s there today it’’s gone tomorrow but the subtle is the one which constantly continuously the thing changes within us like the old man’’s beard keep on shaving it and no matter how much you shave there’’s a five o’’clock shadow always comes in so this is quite clearly we see and also or physical look appearance everything goes on and that is dependent arise some people no matter how old they are looks very young and youthful looking and the conditions are some people who are maybe young but when you expose to different conditions looks much older you know so all these are there so it’’s very much interrelated unless the person who’’s asking question has something in mind something more than in your mind otherwise I don’’t... I couldn’’t understand why the question in that connection between the impermanent and dependent arise is there something beyond that would you like to own the question there must be some important thinking behind that yes what do you have in mind

audience: we thought you said (?) there is continuation because of dependent arise we didn’’t really understand....

Rimpoche: did you say... I said what? 001253

Audience: I thought I heard you earlier today mention because of interdependence there is continuation was that not what you said?

Rimpoche: it’’s okay because of interdependent situation then what?

audience: continuation...it exists because of interdependence the interdependence implies continuation something there we thought you said

Rimpoche: Oh yes, I don’’t know about this way but that way yes (Rimpoche laughs) okay are you happy with what I said or do you have more questions beyond or do you have more reasons

audience: I was okay until you said it’’s okay this way but not that way

Rimpoche: oh questions (?)

audience: he was okay until you said it’’s okay this way but not that way

Every independent arise does not necessarily continue:

Rimpoche: okay no I didn’’t say not that way I didn’’t know what that way is and you know it is continue because of dependent arise and that I’’m not sure it is impermanent because dependent arise could be valid reason not tested not tested yet anyway could be wrong reason you’’re thinking because it continues because it’’s dependent arise that might not be valid reason because every dependent arise is not necessarily continue well okay that is something else then they said eight special qualities of Pass ahn gee kah and they will say even the (past tense?) is continuous so in that case it is slightly different otherwise say let it be that way anyway so okay Clair you have the next question oh is it....

Audience: okay Rimpoche the next three questions have to do with the function of the mind what is the definition of immediate and original conditions you mention this when you said there are conditions that make the mind work original... I don’’t know whether there is a definition or not 001553

But the original condition and then the immediate condition and the condition just before the immediate condition so like three different ways you can go. Without original condition no matter original cause I should say without original cause no matter whatever the condition comes in nothing happens nothing happens you know we have seen so many incidents 001643

There must be an original cause or condition

which you may call it a miracle or this and that but whatever it may be and it clearly shows this is huge thing happened but person still survived the whole plane a lot of crash and two people are still alive and just little scratches or something and all of those happens because we just simply say it’’s not time to go so it survived but what is really happening is perhaps there’’s no original cause not connecting with the condition of whatever the blowing or whatever it is and when it is not connected when the original condition is not there at that moment and no matter whatever the immediate conditions are there this will not materialize just like you try to make the soil perfect and you put manure and you provide the water the heat is there and everything you try to grow whatever you try to grow

but when you did not put the seed when you forgot to put the seed and no matter how much you keep on pouring the water and doing whatever you do and no matter how many times you look and nothing is coming up except the weeds will come up right all these weeds will be pop up of everything else and what you are really waiting for is nothing will come so that is the original condition without which nothing happens the triggering condition or the condition.... you put the seed you put everything but you forgot to water and then no matter whatever happens it did not rain nothing will grow so Tam ah tah...

causal condition and condition that makes it happens and immediate condition immediate condition also you know like the glass falls off and yet someone catches in between 001927

so sort of another condition interrupted in between so that’’s why it doesn’’t break so when you go in that it is quite an detail and also I forgot actually quite a lot and so when the moment we say condition we should not think of just one condition will create one result it doesn’’t work that way and a number of difference conditions and the cause combined together and makes things become materialized so that’’s why dependent arising is even much more than what we think it is honestly dependent arising it is so many factors will be involved so many things and did I answer that question or did I say something funny?

Audience: they were asking him specifically on how the mind works if you want to be more specific about this....002046

Rimpoche: okay mind immediately like you know like eye consciousness the consciousness itself is the original thing and then there is eye consciousness make it work and then the immediate condition is physical form that appears in front of that eye consciousness traditionally they always use blue I don’’t know why but whatever you see it and then suddenly this is interesting you have the form you have the eye consciousness you have the number six the mind consciousness and all of them in together in order ready to perceive and however if some kind of something comes in between then you don’’t see it

the immediate condition is interrupted and when there is nothing happens that moved out and then the immediate condition is right so you perceive and that is how it works this is how conditions we are talking about it on eye consciousness alone very similarly to everything else anyway 002146

Brain and mind

audience: okay the next question is what is the relationship between the brain and the mind

Rimpoche: on that I don’’t know honestly if I know it I would’’ve said it but you know the relationship between the physical aspects and the mind is something very tricky and very difficult yes it definitely does something I think the thought process and all of those and very definitely does and other than that I have no idea no knowledge of the brain process and how it is I have no idea so I better not say what I don’’t know

audience: this next question I think you have in essence answered the first part how does the mind takes thing in how does it function when it receives external phenomena such as eye, ear, nose etc. the second part is how does it function when it receives internal phenomenon such as thoughts

Mind nature is luminous

Rimpoche: that is interesting, actually it’’s a good question an important question I have been saying that the mind nature is luminous the luminous here it doesn’’t mean radiating a light it means more clarity and I’’ve pointed out three different ways of looking at clear this morning and one of these points is the mind it is the nature of the mind itself is such it has the capacity to perceive and to project not project to receive and to perceive and I even talked about the camera taking pictures so and forth, all of those so that is internally it is interesting let me answer this way today but you will know much more when I finish these two sets of five faculties which Guenther uses interesting terminology here he use terminology is one of the first one is he says five omni-present ones that is omni he used the word which is always continuing with the mind 002530

Objective Determining Ones

and the second one he says he calls this objective determinating ones objective determinating ones and they are not bad translations so when you know these five figures those five sets are you probably more clear on the question that you used (?) here but still I would like to say this at this moment whenever the thoughts appeared thoughts appeared mind sees it see you know like the eye sees the mind sees the mind sees and acknowledges thoughts and whether that thought has been entertained or not it depends one of those five determining faculties 002636

and some of them are noticed and some of them are not noticed some of them occupy the mental attention some of them don’’t so it is like it sees it’’s like a sky any cloud that comes in and it appears it sees and it’’s also like when you see the cloud person like me when I see the cloud no matter whatever the cloud may looks like whatever it is it doesn’’t mean anything and (not?) anything but when the person artist when they see it cloud and they see all this 002723

They see all different beautiful and wonderful and it is the orange color and it is the sun setting and it is the flower shape and elephant and god knows the pig and everything they see so it is just like that it is there it’’s sees but whether it is occupied attention or not it is different matter but when you’’re learning meditation when you’’re learning meditation when we’’re learning and we try to show the... try to get the mind the sixth sense is focus on certain things and without bothering whatever is happening and whatever’’s happening let it happen and let it go let it happen let it go doesn’’t let it stuck so I think that is how mind perceives the thoughts and it is extremely easy to influence because it is nature pure it is extremely easy to influence (it?) actually after you hear this set of five two of them I’’m presuming I won’’t have time to do the rest because the rest is mostly tell you these are the virtues and these are the non-virtues and these are the more basically 11 virtue what is it 002944

11 virtues, thoughts or emotions or six root negative emotions and 20 secondary negative emotions and four changeable plus 5, 5 makes 51 mental faculties. So they’’re simply telling you this is virtue this is non virtue for Buddhist practitioners it is very very important but when you are looking at the mind and its functioning it is lesser important so I thought this set of 5 because this set of the 5 actually makes the mind focus or not focus object or not object and being objectivity or not and all of them are those faculties do. Mind itself is something huge as I told you earlier clean clear crystal lampshade and the mental faculties makes everything difference in there and that is why that is why motivation makes it going into virtue and non-virtue it is so sensitive so easy to change you know it is very the word is not fragile but it is very sensitive extremely sensitive don’’t have to do much just slightly touch a little bit and it will become whatever it is 003124 it is extremely easy to handle and difficult to manage so that is what it is

Audience: Rimpoche that is the last set of this and Clair and I each have one more set of questions.

Rimpoche: Alright

Audience: So Clair is next

Primordial Mind

Audience: Next there are a bunch of questions about Primordial Mind and the first might be do we each have an element or piece of of Primordial Mind and is it uniquely ours.

Rimpoche: the question is each and every living beings have a Primordial Mind and that is absolutely unique to that individual 003215

The questions that we have been talking earlier is things like I have been saying the no beginning no ending and yet there is a completely separate... I don’’t know.... entity separate entity it is very unique and not only the primordial mind is unique but the energy air like energy in the traditional Vajrayana teachings will always simply tell you it is subtle air and air here does not necessary mean the air it can be more energy so not only the primordial mind is unique but even that energy is also unique it is very individual I don’’t know whether it is unique or not 003349

it is very very individual and completely separate then A’’s primordial mind has nothing to do with B’’s when I said nothing to do and then you may go bigger picture isn’’t that dependent arise and all that that is a different story but as an identification it is separate completely unique until one becomes enlightened once you become enlightened what happens then 003432

then there is different points .like even in the Gelupa tradition if you look the Tsongkhapa has two disciples outstanding disciples and one of them says its independent-ness is still remain and maintained one of them says it sort merged into sort of a sea of enlightened yet individualization is still there, so it becomes very subtle for us to figure out so at that time I don’’t know what happens but until then it is absolutely individual and unique and very individual and very private.

Audience: then there is a series that goes.... is the principle... I am going to read all of them and then we may have to split them up if that is okay... is the principle mind the same as the primordial mind is the primordial mind the same as the enlightened mind is the primordial mind unchanging or is it the part of the mind that develops toward the enlightened mind and if it is not that part what part does develop toward enlightened mind? 003551

Rimpoche: Good question I think the principle mind I am not sure whether that principal mind is... principal mind is not....this is a little difficult here. Primordial mind and when you say primordial we get an understanding it is some very original not today but I think here the idea is not those time factors but I think it is factor that how subtle it goes when the primordial sounds like very original it is original but it is extremely subtle 003656

very very subtle things yes that very subtle mind has a Buddha nature yes that very mind becomes enlightened mind yes that very mind is the mind that it develops 003724

But are we at this moment directly exposed to that very subtle mind probably not what ever our thinking of a mind even sixth consciousness what we are right now can comprehend and think is the gross part of that mind we are not in touching with that subtle mind that subtle mind is nothing separate than us but is still is not exposed to us I think that.... how many points you have got I think these are the interesting questions and that are my thoughts on that do I have reasons? yes I do each and every one of them 003839

Primordial Mind not equal to Enlightened Mind

audience: okay the next one... I was just reading over it to see how it was affected by what you said but I’’m just going to say it straight okay so if primordial mind is not out of the gate the same as enlightened mind by definition not identical to enlightened mind and if principal mind is not identical to enlightened mind but it is clear lucid non-biased and reflects positivity and negativity without preference

Rimpoche: without preference that is the language I was missing this morning thank you (Rimpoche laughs)

audience: and if enlightened mind is positive and if removing obscuring negativity results in the expression of inherent positivity where does this third enlightened mind reside in relation to the other two?

Subtle Primordial Mind becomes Enlightened Mind

Rimpoche: because of my previous answer I don’’t think I have to answer this because the mind that really becomes enlightened is the subtle primordial mind so therefore there is no separate place to remain however the subtle mind even we call it whether we call that a primordial or not but very subtle mind has a place to remain in and the place is what I told you that subtle air energy and that also in physical condition as a human being according to the Tibetan Buddhist teachings it is supposed to remain at the center of the heart chakra center of the heart chakra 004109

it always remained there as long as human beings are in life and never moves never wavers never shaking always remains there supposed to remain there and that is the difference when we are talking about it something important thinking and concentrating and when we talk about a life and all that some of those Eastern traditions will point to the heart rather than the brain and in the West we are talking about a thought process we put a finger on the brain rather than heart level and that perhaps is the background of difference so the center of activities the what you call it the commanding position or the bridge is according to the Vajrayana it remains at the heart level and that is why heart chakra the heart is considered most important and but that doesn’’t mean the other chakras are not important they are equally important throat chakra and head chakra naval and secret chakra all of those are important especially throat and head chakras are as important as heart chakra is so that subtle let’’s not even call it primordial because that makes more confusion the subtle mind the subtle energy mind that has come from the previous life and is remaining here and one that goes to the future life that is very subtle one is remains within that energy which is supposed to be remain at the center of the heart chakra enlightened mind I don’’t know whether it remains anywhere else or not enlightened mind is not a subtle mind it’’s a very gross mind it’’s a very gross mind and it’’s a very pervasive mind extremely pervasive everywhere in the Ganden la Gyema those of you who have Ganden la Gyema teachings your remember Shay Jay shung....

when they talk about the quality of the mind and the quality of the mind is as so they referred as a measurement you measure whatever to be known and the knowledge is measured whatever to be known so whatever to be known everything is not up here it is all out there so it is extremely very pervasive and it is everywhere and that is all reason why the enlightened mind is everywhere and knows everything simultaneously and that because it is pervasive so it doesn’’t have the physical restrictions the law of physics I think we call it right so and the restrictions you can’’t limits and restrictions and physically impossible things are happening here and break through that is because of the pervasive nature everything is known everything is aware to everyone every enlightened mind so the measurement is whatever to be known is known to the mind it is like the feet and cloth what if you measure it’’s going together that’’s how much the enlightened mind total knowledge is all about it so it is (like?) not the total knowledge remains something remains inside and reading everything 004623

Thurman, Gere, St. John the Divine, and 1000 candles

but it is everywhere and remember Locho Rimpoche here started scolding because of the idea of then you know enlightened mind is has been inside you (too?) and you know thinking of (?) he said and this is wild thought remember? wild crazy thought it is not an intelligent thought and that are these points and I don’’t know whether anyone of you know or not many years ago maybe Amy knows I don’’t know many years ago those are the days that the Grateful Dead’’s been taking this (Urtra) Tantric college people around and they had a some kind of singing and function in the St. John’’s the Divine right? In a huge one big one and then a couple of people who are supposed to be speaking there and I was asked to speak and I was asked to speak less than 2 minutes (audience laughs) and my job was they are supposed to bring 1000 candle lights 1000 or 100 I even forgot the numbers are not very good with me the time and number I think it was 1000 candle lights anyway and I’’m supposed to be speaking and then begin to light the candle and supposed to hold the candle and the Richard Gere was there and try to make me not speak more than 2.... make sure not more than two minutes. try to tell me (so?) I’’m clamming up Thurman comes running from somewhere and he grabbed me when I was climbing up on the steps and I fell down when he grabbed like that....(Rimpoche laughs) and he said they forgot the candles don’’t say candles they forgot the candles 004910

They actually forget (all the?) candles so there’’s no candles so there is no candle lighting, that is what I am supposed to be doing already there Richard is the MC you know who is doing and then I spoke exactly 1 minute something less than that and I talk about the pervasive nature of the enlightened mind

Different frequency of enlightened mind

and the enlightened mind is everywhere... everywhere because the reason why it can be pervasive everywhere is because the (frequency?) On which their body and mind are functioning is different than ours we as an individuals people we have a body way of function (frequency?) On which physical thing functioning and a frequency on which mind’’s functioning is two separate (part?) but as the enlightened level it becomes one 005020:

So there is no separation of a body and a mind so it is (omniscient?) so I think that’’s all I said and that is about maybe less than a minute and Richard went up and said I never seen any Tibetan who is speaking taking such a short time or something (Rimpoche laughs) when I came down 005056

a huge African-American minister who’’s really sitting right in front some big guy came in and give me huge kiss on my lips sorry really gave me and he says you spoke better than Southern Baptist ministers that we train all the time and I’’m not even sure whether that is a good remark or bad remark (audience laughs) and I said is it a complement? Of course compliment he said... so I can’’t forget that kiss you know big so he is of course thinking where God is everywhere but I’’m thinking the enlightened mind is everywhere I’’m talking from that angle but the point will be (meet?) at the at the end because its pervasive nature of it so I don’’t think it is when you’’re enlightened it is not restricted as though you’’re sitting sort of a glass box and looking out I think it’’s sort of very pervasive everywhere so that becomes unlimited and no limitation where you can go where you cannot go that’’s probably how it is functioning yet until it has been enlightened perhaps that’’s why they say enlightened level there is no limitations until it is enlightened and this subtle mind is limited is grounded like you ground the kids it’’s grounded and this is might not be appropriate to say it here but there’’s something called indestructible drop or some business and that also indestructible drop that they have again a gross level and a subtle level and that and that’’s probably what it is so it’’s been grounded so it cannot be separated cannot go away if it does the individual dies and at the enlightened level it’’s gone beyond that limitation when they’’re going beyond that limitation your body becomes the mind the mind becomes the body and the body mind is no separation and that is the reason why we consider image is not just representation but also living I think they’’re all based on that idea did I say too much in here? okay

audience: this is the last set of questions it has to do with the activities of the mind and how the mind is affected by that and then the result hopefully which is enlightenment a few questions about that the first question is is there a difference between motivation and intention? 005504

Motivation and Intention

Rimpoche: maybe not that’’s what I was thinking this morning when I said motivation then I thought dedication and there’’s a difference between motivation and dedication but motivation and intention are probably the same I’’m not sure I don’’t know I think it is I don’’t know English language-wise and don’’t tell me you people are experts and I am the layperson here for the language really I don’’t know what the language point but from the.... what I understand what we talk about use Bodhimind as motivation and so I think that is probably intention of the individual try not to make it individual gain or anything and try to be more completely sort of open and for everything I think it is... well if you really go in detail there may be some but basically it is same intention okay well I for the time being I’’d like to say it’’s almost the same but yes intention may have a little more activity than motivations because motivation is always a good intent to be good but then intention may make you to do something not necessarily.... I don’’t know I don’’t know maybe not it is better I’’m getting the signal from my editor saying it better be the same

audience: Rimpoche in this one the questioner says in the past you have said that through meditation we can become the object of meditation such as compassion now it seems that you said the mind cannot become the object of mind can you please clarify?

Mind and object of Meditation

Rimpoche: thank you for raising and I thought I might have said that a couple times for a very recently too become is a different thing but for mind become Bodhimind mind become compassion that’’s fine that’’s fine there’’s nothing wrong with this and mind becoming if mind becomes everything they observe then the mind becomes second person and third person and that is difficulty... Bodhimind love compassion becoming enlightened becoming there’’s no problem for whatsoever that is true fact but everything mind perceives mind may not become if it becomes you know the mind becomes third person or second person and that might not be right because they perceive I think that is clarification 005851

but on the other hand when you are meditating love compassion it’’s really training when you’’re training yourself not to think about be a.... you know... be suspicious and always thinking everything is here to attack for me attacking me and so try to think everything into a try to generate compassion towards everybody love towards everybody and the consequences of that what you get back is becoming even something horrible but it changes into something positive and these are the realities facts and reality that reminds me that Ramadass’’s story of telling that some kind of dinner that from his business associate businessperson okay so from his businessperson so businessperson all these arrows are shooting out of his mouth during (Rimpoche has an aside) so I came back from Europe (one thing?) not to let the South people to believe that’’s what Tie Rimpoche and everybody told me because you know he said they will make you aware something on your head and make something put in front and you insist what you are comfortable with that and he says if they produce terrible sound that’’s their job we are not sound people so I came back as a different person to Yonas so before that I used to do everything whatever he told me wear this and put this and put that out and so I’’m saying now I have been fighting this (warning?) 010133

so now he wins again anyway so the fact is love compassion and all of them (are, our?) true nature truly right and hatred obsession et cetera truly wrong and so it matches with the nature of the mind so it becomes and there is nothing wrong with this yet hatred and all this it is not the nature of the mind it is not the nature of mind because it is not truth so it doesn’’t match with the nature of the mind so that’’s why it becomes the example like a cloud and sky and all that for that purposes because it doesn’’t match with the natural reality I think it is about a few years ago Amy raised a question about that and I did give that answer on the telephone (?) I don’’t know whether you remember it or not I don’’t remember the date I do remember it was in the afternoon

audience: Rimpoche so the next question is about these clouds

Rimpoche: (Rimpoche laughs) which clouds?

audience: Well that’’s the question partly but.... what are the clouds it sounds as if you’’re saying there are these afflictive emotions the negative emotions if so how do we get rid of them?

Buddhism is geared toward driving away negative emotions

Rimpoche: get a lot of air that’’ll blow it out the negative emotions are the whole Buddhism is geared towards that to drive away those negative emotions and every Buddhist practice is geared towards that some are done through discipline way some are done not so much discipline oriented but thought and analyze oriented some are done combination of it and the most recommended one is combination of it 010429

first understanding and the second analyzing and third meditating so what happens is that is how you really making that sensitive mind to adapt in this positive natures and at the simultaneously try to reduce the negative causes and by reducing negative causes and by avoiding negative conditions and the negativities are discontinued when its negativities are discontinued it takes the positivities take over and it becomes just like 010524

Sowing many good seeds works better than pulling the weeds

I’’ll give you one example I’’m not sure whether how many people are aware of it you know what you do when you’’re gardening when you’’re growing nice beautiful grasses here like over here you say what Kentucky grass (?) nice blue green grass if you are growing and you see a lot of weeds coming up right and you keep on fighting with the weeds keep on picking them up and you know you can discipline and morning till evening you sit in the garden and keep on picking the weeds up and it weed will go too but also another way to do is you know you keep on continuously supplying the good seeds continuously keep on giving and then the good grass seeds will develop and choke the weeds and the weeds will be out you know that and it is exactly the same thing here the positive things keep on seeding continuously and then it chokes the negative ones and that’’s what it is and when you have to through a discipline you cannot do this you cannot do that you cannot do that and it is like you have a big head and sitting in the garden morning till evening digging each and everything here and then you dig something here you took it out and tomorrow you find four more five more in here and you turn around and keep on digging you will be sitting in one spot for a month the whole summer keep on digging all this roots or you keep on throwing seeds good seeds all the time even not within that year by next year by the year after all the weeds will be choked and the green grasses grow very similarly you apply that that is how you get rid of those clouds

audience: okay so Rimpoche so

Rimpoche: oh one more thing sorry... that... oh I think I answered it okay thank you

Enlightenment remaining

audience: okay so we’’ve gotten rid of the clouds and have a green grass and so the result so those are the causes the seeds and the wind and we then have the result which is enlightenment since enlightenment is caused why is it not reversible 010814

Rimpoche: well I did answer that remember because it is the true nature it is truth and the way you get rid of those clouds also there are two ways right one you just temporarily block them and second you completely it is not only block them but you block them that they never can grow again and that is what it is that’’s why it made into never can grow again and that’’s why enlightened remains and that’’s why I have a problem when you say primordial mind is enlightened mind and then I have a problem for that

audience: okay one more question about enlightenment so is the enlightened state of every religion the same do you think that Jesus was enlightened from a Buddhist point of view?

There are other paths to enlightenment not just Buddhist path.

Rimpoche: I think you’’re talking about the dogma now but why not why not I think the ““ism”” is some kind of artificial again it’’s not a true nature it is some kind of artificial boundary we put in almost all religions ““isms”” and this and that it is artificial boundary that we put in and if you look beyond that artificial boundary I think when you’’re enlightened you’’re enlightened and when you’’re not enlightened you’’re non-enlightened whether you are a Buddhist or not Buddhist or Christian or atheist or whatever, whatever so to become enlightened no one says you have to be Buddhist as the enlightened stage has been referred as Buddhahood or enlightened stage been referred as ““saint”” or enlightened stage been referred as whatever you know so under that circumstances because of the way it is described and then it follows through the tradition but whenever you reach over there I’’m quite sure absolutely there is no difference between whether you have enlightened through Buddhist path or any other path or no path but your own intelligence and thoughts and efforts and they’’re all there you cannot rule out even when you talk about the three Yanas even in Buddhism this Purchigayana is called self liberating the time and the period where the Purchiga Buddhas appeared is the gap between the two Buddha’’s official period 011234

so it is self developed no teacher no nothing self developed becoming enlightened ones so they’’re all there and none of them you cannot say not enlightened at that level when you reach you are going beyond the dogma and it is Dharma without dogma and when you have dogma (attracted? Attached?) then Dharma with the dogma it becomes difficult did I answer your questions?

audience: yes thank you there’’s one final question that didn’’t really fit in a category I think it has to do with unbalanced mind and (?) it’’s a practical question the person wants to know how do we deal with someone who is mentally ill?

Rimpoche: you have to act the same way (Rimpoche laughs) perhaps we will know later what makes mentally ill I think one of those five objective ones or something what Guenther calls 011425

Objective Determining ones

Rimpoche: objective what? Objective Determining Ones and there are five of them and one or more is not working properly and so probably that’’s what’’s happening with the mentally challenged people and truly to be able to help is try to make sure which one is not working and why and try to bring that up but that is become very challenging thing and sometimes and even you don’’t know what you’’re doing and it creates more problems and yet something definitely the mentally challenged people will never accept they are mentally challenged and they’’ll definitely say I’’m perfectly fine you all are crazy but I am perfectly fine but one thing what you never say is you’’re crazy and that’’s what I said behave like them

half jokingly and only thing for us to do is by suggesting by suggesting the suggestion will only work if they trust you but mentally challenged people will not trust anyone because mentally challenged they have been very doubtful of everybody it is all completely suspicious until it’’s completely gone if completely gone then it’’s really become very difficult but until then become very very suspicious of everyone

and to gain their trust it is quite difficult but if anyone begins to trust you a little bit and then....in this therapist do their job anyway if they do it well most of the therapist anyway doesn’’t do any good at all so but I am sorry there are a lot of therapist here today (Rimpoche laughs) I don’’t mean and don’’t take that as an individual

as a general statement and then to some of them are since the physical and the mind relations so (closed? Close?) 011818

Wake up the facilities that are asleep

and so the lack of some chemical things are also very much affected and for them taking the pills also nothing is wrong in my opinion and I think... I notice a number of people have been very helpful very helpful and basically every chemical thing have its own problem but since it’’s very helpful and nothing is really wrong intrinsically there’’s nothing wrong in that so they are very helpful and when it’’s helpful why should you (not?) take it and any help which ever the corner angle you can get it and personally I think you should really take it and make use of it and basically settling the mind down is the most important what’’s really happening is the mind is agitated extremely agitated and so it couldn’’t settle down couldn’’t focus anything and the mental faculty of feeling and the mental faculty of recognition and the mental faculty of focusing they are all completely get mixed up and not working together completely mixed them up so that’’s why it tries to build each one by one each of those mental faculties which is lacking to this individual person and try to build that up through suggestion only because when mentally challenged people if you tell them meditate they may sit a few seconds or then mostly they don’’t even they sit physically the mind is not settling down so it is only the suggestion that may work and try to re.... what you call it wake up the faculties and that is asleep or not functioning or overloaded circuit or whatever it is when the moment I use the word circuit then it becomes like electricity 012109

then you begin to think with brain chemicals and waves and all this but what I mean is those sleeping mental faculties to make it function whatever the best way we could do and it is always easier to handle if it’’s yourself before anything goes wrong badly so that is awareness and alertness and mindfulness and that will prevent and that is something you can train yourself awareness alertness mindfulness and they prevent those mental faculties are going wrong and crazy and that prevents (a gong sounds in the distance) Okay so that means dinner is ready so and that prevents getting crazy mentally challenged perhaps on that subject we may come back and talk too okay so well I have something else to talk to you but I think we’’ll do that late... there is another session right yes thank you. (The tape ends with no prayers or chanting)