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20050529GRGRMRMOM6

Questions on mental faculties

Audience: Rimpoche we have four sets of questions about a similar amount maybe a little less than last night and Clair will read the first two sets 000009

audience: okay if we understood correctly Rimpoche you said that the mental faculties were products of the mind if the mental faculties are produced by mind how can they be out of sync or out of matching character with the mind?

Rimpoche: good question I think I did talk yesterday about that... not today yesterday about.. it is called products of mind but it came simultaneously combined (together?) sort of you know that has to have five points of significance has to matching together so I don’’t think we will think products of something like the seed and then becomes the.... you know the evolution of the seed grow started shoot and becomes and then flower and fruit I don’’t think I’’ll think that way and also the mind level the process can be simultaneous but I think it can be simultaneous process 000143

But let’’s not because this is simple straightforward Sutrayana so let’’s not talk about it but it is called products of mind because the word Sim choon...

It is something out of from mind yes I guess that’’s it

Audience: and then you may have answered the next part just then but just to clarify if the mind changes 60 times per second are the mental faculties then re-created each time?

Mental faculties and mind are simultaneous

Rimpoche: mind probably changes 360 times per second and so the mental faculties it has to be simultaneous, it has to be simultaneous as it becomes much more sophisticated than we thought it is isn’’t it?

Audience: this whole first bunch is more just sort of short, factual questions you have said that mantra is mind protection of the mental faculties which one or ones are affected by mantra?

Rimpoche: oh I think a number of them... particularly you know the mantra the word mantra is protection of a mind it is interesting when you try to pin point it out which mental faculty it works I can’’t say it but it has to be one of those not only one but almost all of those five Omni faculties and plus one or two out of objective ascertaining okay so I guess that’’s it beside that you know we said earlier when we talk about it and a couple of them I pointed out here the motivation how it works and here and I think you can really figure out from there you know...

audience: both the third mental faculty of the first group of five directionality of mind and the fifth have the characters of focusing and directing what’’s the difference or can you distinguish these further?

Rimpoche: I was looking at it I knew this question is coming, I try to find it I try to look in here there is a distinction yes and I was looking I did not find it yet can we what is the third mental faculty that what is the third one.... can I borrow a pen from you

Audience: directionality of mind as activity....

Rimpoche: Ohhhh that doesn’’t work for me I have to get the Tibetan....

audience: something like Sinjeh sempah?

Rimpoche: oh Sempah okay thank you Sinjeh sempah and then the other one is?

Audience: the other one is the fifth the egocentric demanding something...

Rimpoche: oh Yula chaybah yes Yula Chaybah all right okay thank you all right Sembah yee geh leh... The Sembah is mind activities mind activity it directs, it is mind directs and I think Yeelah chaybah will make a very specific point 000624

where you can hold it I think these are the two difference, I didn’’t find yet I think these are the two differences I think its quite....I think I remember that quite clearly yes the moment I have that Tibetan then I know I’’m sorry

Audience: later you spoke about mindfulness and said that mindfulness when combined with awareness results in accomplishment

Rimpoche: yes yes

Audience: the question is, is awareness a mental faculty?

Rimpoche: yes if you look in those positive virtue somewhere around there there is one of them there

Audience: okay then of the first of the five ever present mental faculties do they.... you said do they happen simultaneously or do they happen sequentially and if they happen sequentially in what order? 000730

Rimpoche: no no not all five? which ones?

Audience: the omnipresent the first ones

Rimpoche: I believe it has to be together almost for us it has to be together we can’’t be figure out because what happened is you know we’’ve been talking with that yesterday with someone here the primordial mind is whether (pre-ego?) and all that type of thing they are all very very I think they really quickly happens in this and I don’’t know this speed in which they go I think it’’s really really very fast and we may not be able figure out but all five of them has to be functioning well and it also has to be continuously functioning with the every principle of the (sixth?) consciousness changing it has to be functioning along with this and otherwise you will have a problem of missing, not catching up on of all on those and when it is working perfectly it should be working very very fast with that...

audience: okay then we get into the second set of 5 the second set of five mental faculties the five object ascertaining why are they called object ascertaining our object recognizing....

Rimpoche: because it makes you realize and makes you remember and acknowledge and recognize and that’’s why it’’s called Yue neeh.... 000917 whether it is object ascertaining or not Yue neeh, the focal point the focus actually the mind works what we call it Sung zing... Sung and that whatever you’’re holding it and Zim the mind labels... Sung Zing joining together making recognize that’’s why it is called Yue neeh because that is the job of those mental faculties....

audience: does that second set have a positive or negative character?

Rimpoche: well by virtue I don’’t think you can say they’’re either positive or negative but neither they variable either because variables are counted as (four, for?) separately but I don’’t think they are either positive or negative because this is the... just happens to be the (massed?) Retinue of a functioning mind properly

audience: there are number of questions on how they... the two groups relate or function with each other?

Rimpoche: do they have to function each other? 001040

audience well that’’s the part of the question is there a relationship and if so how do they relate for example how does the omnipresent mental factor of directionality of mind relate to the object ascertaining factor of aspiration?

Rimpoche: I look a different way I look those five Omni five mental faculties are sort of has to be there and this second set of five will function whenever mind recognizing there it doesn’’t have to be there all the time otherwise it should be the Omni 10 rather than the Omni five so I don’’t look in that way at all

audience: then someone was wondering

Rimpoche: (laughing) someone was wondering

audience: the question arises out of I think wondering how these faculties function differently in persons of different states of development and so specifically they ask could you walk us through how the five Omni present and the five object ascertaining mental faculties function in an ordinary person compared with how they function in a person who has mastered concentration

Object ascertaining mental facilities in a student vs a master.

Rimpoche: I think the level of I don’’t know whether I can walk through probably not but the level of those mental faculties also becomes more sharper and more you know alert and all this when the mind level is increases I think they all function much smoother and faster and stronger and when we are beginning to even now when we try to look into it our own mind and begin to see where those are the omnipresents are there and how which mental faculty is doing what it is rather hard for us to see exactly what mental faculty is doing what but when you get used to it you begin to see it and not only you begin to see it and you will also notice what is missing and when you notice what is missing within you then you on the basis of your own knowledge of what is missing by using that as a reasoning when one of them doesn’’t work or not there so what happens to us using that as a reason and watching for the other persons and we may be able to to ascertain what is the problem of that very individual I think it needs time because I don’’t know whether you can sort of interesting if we could point it out here, here is this here is that, that would be interesting but I don’’t know 001431

audience: and then last one on my set is could you speak a little more about the faculty called egocentric demanding

Rimpoche egocentric demanding which one is that

audience: that is the fifth one of the first five (they have an aside) and then is there a minding a function of this mental faculty and where’’s the ego in all of this

Rimpoche: that’’s a very interesting question where is the ego I don’’t know if we know where is the ego we can catch them(audience laughs) but Yeelah chaybah I don’’t know let me look if I can find it.... is the fifth one from the first row right? And it’’s lost it’’s lost completely can you ask another question rather than waiting for this because this I may or not be able to find

audience: Rimpoche you just address this from the point of view of someone who is advanced concentrated and meditation....001744

Rimpoche: one minute, one minute. I found that Sempa here ummm... we don’’t have a question on Semba right? You know the Semba really is.... really they talk more about Semba they talk more about the karmic thing the karmic thing is really working by the Simjo Semba....

audience: Rimpoche we do have a question about that so we might as well ask it now if we understand correctly karmic functioning directs the mind toward positive or negative at the third of the first five directionality of mind

Rimpoche: can I interrupt you for one minute? I found the difference between this Semba and the Yula cheba it is exactly Semba ney cheurah.....so it is exactly what I said the Semba moves the general direction and the Yula Cheba makes it stick to very specific point these are the two differences...... sorry

audience: okay so this is about Sempah the directionality of mind if we understand this correctly karmic functioning directs the mind toward positive or negative at the third of the first five....

Karma does not push the mind in certain directions

Rimpoche: whoa whoa whoa whoa wait a minute when you say karmic function directs the mind I think it is not a correct statement..... I don’’t think karmic functions.... Sembah makes karma and I don’’t think karmic directs mind this is something different there 002011

audience: so the second part of the question is how does this happen and how can we work with this

Rimpoche: I think the question does not rise because karmic doesn’’t direct mind so the first part is not right Sempa is I mean when I say I didn’’t say Sempa is karma, Sempa is the one who creates all different karmic system because it pushes mind and do this and that and activities that is how karma created I don’’t think karma pushes mind to a certain directions

audience: okay so this next question may be equally.... how do all positive karmas come from number two firm apprehension Lupah.. l 002109

Rimpoche: What is that?

Audience: you said this today (out of?) Lupah that all positive karma is built (we built?) come from Lohpah

Rimpoche: oh Nervah! okay Sawa Nervah tue oh no okay this is Shantideva’’s one particular verse and they said the root of all positive karmas are the Nervah so that does not necessarily I don’’t know whether you can literally take it all positive karmas come out of Nervah though it is stated that way but more or less what really that statement tells us that most of our virtues positive karmas are become strong and powerful by using a Nervah so I think you may have to think that way I don’’t know whether that Shantideva can be taken as literal otherwise the Mervah has to be the cause of karmic and all of those questions must be coming from you and your mind is working in that direction so (Rimpoche laughs) okay

audience: they do appear to have similar handwriting (audience laughs)

Rimpoche: oh is that right?

Fortunate Karma, Unfortunate Karma, Unshakable Karma

Audience: appear to..... I’’m not pointing any fingers (Rimpoche laughs) there is one in a different hand that.... it’’s kind of a spinoff and it is what is unshakable karma?

Rimpoche: Hmmmm...that is a very interesting question when we talk about fortunate karma unfortunate karma and unshakable karma 002306

we are talking about we are really talking about almost karma that brings life continue in samsara not leading you for the liberation outside the samsara and within the samsara unfortunate karmas brings the lower realm rebirth and the fortunate karmas brings higher realm like the human realm or the Samsaric God realms and all this that unshakable karma brings above that you know like four forms and four formless and those are the result of the unshakable karmas so yet within the samsara it’’s not out of Samsaric that’’s what it is and a lot of those meditations without using much..... without having proper Shamatha or without having much of Bibashana are the most of them becomes unshakable karma because they give you rebirth in the formless like space-like conscious-less like and nothingness and even the peak of the samsara and all of those because it doesn’’t move much perhaps not moving karma but if you read those transcripts in those Lam rim as well as those Lam rim books even the Odyssey to Freedom and also the Liberation the Palm of Your Hand they should give you (that?) quite clearly here I do know the liberation does and it’’s there

audience: do you change karma through purification or just the conditions?

Rimpoche: what happens is.... is when you purify.... the purification itself does work against the negative karma and working of the purification, work of the purification itself is positive karma so therefore I think it does change I mean you will see the result has been changed whether that purified negative karma changed into positive or not I’’m not sure it depends... what kind of a person what kind of purification and all of them I think it depends on that basically the result becomes positive because of purification whether that old karma which is sort of neutralized, no more functioning whether that made into positive or not I’’m not sure I don’’t know

Dedication of merit

audience: if someone does a lot of good healing and taking care of people but they don’’t have a system of dedication what happens to their merit?

Rimpoche: temper tantrum will take it away..... that’’s what dedication is supposed to do... it is the question coming from someone who quite new in here? Oh I mean quite... or is it somebody who knew already or what? 002802

okay well what happened is as you know what happens is the un-dedicated positive deeds doesn’’t have the security of not burning out by hatred and so

audience: I just wanted to clarify little bit I think the question was asked (in the content?) because you had said earlier that everybody will reach perfection that you don’’t have at some point and it doesn’’t have to be (?) And so the question was if people come from other traditions you know where those traditions do not have as Buddhism does a system of dedication does that mean that these people doing these good works are losing their (?)

Rimpoche: I don’’t know how to say that but what I do know in this Buddha’’s teachings is because the dedication is the security part or aspect of it and if it is not secured sometimes it can be exposed by hatred and hatred could really burn that 002933

And that is why the dedication is there but even they don’’t call it dedication as a dedication or dedicate but if the person even prays or wishes this may be helpful for benefitting all living beings all sentient beings or or even this and that even you don’’t call dedication and I think it becomes dedication I think all of those are you don’’t have to have that label called dedication because the person who worked and who did the thing with the motivation intention and even when you are completed and you are sort of thinking that way by the virtue it, it becomes dedication in my understanding dedication is maybe a terminology we used for specific things in the Buddhist field I don’’t know whether the other fields have it or not but when your mind is done that way whether you call it dedication or not I think it becomes dedicated once the karma is dedicated even you don’’t call it dedicated done for a purpose and when you think that way and then it is because of karma is definite it is sort of really remains until that particular result was given and no matter whatever happens anything else happens and that doesn’’t get affected because it is secured it is easy now when you say it is secured so does everybody understand what we are talking about?

audience: the last set of questions have to do a little bit more with our experience of these faculties in action 003210

Thoughts on mental facilities out of balance

Audience: the mental faculties this one you addressed a little bit but more from the standpoint of a person realized in concentration but I think this is more about what we can do now.... how do we determine which mental faculties are out of balance in ourselves and then how do we adjust the loose screw?

Rimpoche: you know we talked earlier what does mental faculties do...... sort of look into it carefully and what each mental faculties do and then start looking within yourself and you’’ll notice what is missing and what is not working and I think that really has to be from the activity of the mental faculties which is supposed to do what and then seeing whether you are doing it correctly or not and that is how we will probably recognize I don’’t think you have.... if you have a like a roll calling type of list saying do I have this do I have this do I have that and started taking you may not see anything and you probably see something everything is present or you see nothing is present but sort of watching it and how your mind functioning and what is really functioning where it’’s lacking what is lacking, so you begin simply like laziness is working enthusiasm is much less and so you begin to see that’’s what it is - just like that you begin to see each and every one of them gradually what you really do is familiarize the activities of those mental faculties and then watching yourself and seeing are they really there and so what is lacking when you especially when you’’re not watching and when you’’re doing it function it and when you look back the minute before or past mind what has been lacking and you know it is easy to be able to catch it with the past mind rather than the future or even present so that when you say the past mind you begin to see what was missing 003503

and that is probably how you can find out and then you begin to see the past it is missing and then it is continuously missing one after another the same thing continuously missing then you see you have a problem on very specific mental faculty then try to work out with this and that is how you can keep yourself balanced maybe I make too strong statement maybe I should withdraw that but it may be helpful to keep yourself balanced.

Audience: the second part was how do we adjust the screw do you want to say anything about that

Rimpoche: I think I just already said it yes

audience: by recognizing it

Rimpoche hints at an alternate method to re-balance mental facilities

Rimpoche: no by recognizing and then if it’’s constantly missing then it’’s a problem one time it is missing, it’’s no big deal, two time it is missing no big deal and constantly one of the function has been missing within the one individual and then you know that is a problem and here is then you have to focus very specifically to try to bring that mental faculty functioning

audience: the next question is related...

Rimpoche: you know actually when you diagnose the mental difficulties perhaps these are the basis on which you can do diagnosis what was wrong with the mentally rather than I mean at least it gives you a little specific thing to look for and specifically what is going on rather than saying something wrong with the mind this is on that in sort of in not in general whole mind moving you know

audience: the next question is about diagnosis

Rimpoche: oh

audience: you’’re good at this as a psychologist I am interested in your definition of the laziness I often find clients I consider blocked and not really lazy is there a difference?

Laziness versus block - an alternate view

Rimpoche: well to me one who doesn’’t really want to do and it sort of try to find out... Try to keep themselves absolutely busy except what you’’re supposed to do you know what I mean?

I don’’t know whether you call it block or laziness and to me it is the name I consider it laziness it may be a mental block you know because in order to avoid what you’’re supposed to do and you keep yourself absolutely busy I’’ve seen this a number of times, with a number of people do that 003827

because something which you just don’’t want to do so you may like to call that block just don’’t want to do because you have some hesitations or you just don’’t want to do being stubborn or maybe it is you have the person individual might have experienced some kind of difficulty dealing with that so this mental faculty called Mervah remembers ““oh that difficulty”” so it tries to avoid the mind functioning in that way so then this laziness finds its own way and keep yourself completely busy so that you don’’t have opportunity or time to think or do about it and I don’’t know whether you call it block or laziness but that’’s a problem and that very specifically that is that problem I think why individual try to avoid something they did not like it and what they did not like it has to be either an experience of unpleasant or someone told them the information might have either come through the one of those mental faculties on that earlier those omni mental faculties and through that so whether it has come as information or experience or as a memory or something so and that’’s why people try to avoid it otherwise there’’s no other reason some people will say Oh it is ghost that block me but I’’m quite sure there’’s no ghosts that blocks you....99.9% is not ghost but there’’s a 1% possibility honestly you cannot rule out 99.9% is not ghost particularly if you go in the South America there’’s a lot of ghost business everywhere... everything is ghosts so and even in the United States a number of people think it is ghosts it’’s not a ghost that plays so much with your mind it is your mental faculties but also I would like to talk to you one important point I just sort of you have to know.... each and every one of those mental faculties is the not only it is the agent of the mind but it is also the function of the mind itself too 004156

otherwise people may think it may go you may get 51 mind up there and split personalities of 51 different personalities and there will be instead of helping it’’ll be harm so have to remember it is the agent of the mind and it is the function of a mind itself it is one of those aspects of the mind and you can almost think that way otherwise if you think it is completely a separate entity functioning over there it’’s going to be extremely busy we have a problem with the single mind and now we have 51 minds running around and we have 51 more problems so we don’’t want that so just please remember that carefully too

The mental facility of Doubt

audience: okay we have a couple questions about doubt can you explain the mechanism of doubt and how it functions in relation to the mental faculties

Rimpoche: doubt itself is a mental faculty remember down there yes one of those mental faculties

audience: and how do you know when you’’ve cleared doubt?

Rimpoche: When you’’re convinced you re-check what you’’re convinced once again and once again when it’’s reliable that’’s what all these Sema or the Parmana.... It is the logical main point is clearing the doubts.... Clearing the doubts is really done by the reliable reasoning reliable reasoning is becomes reliable by confirmation confirmation is done either direct understanding or indirect understanding 004415

Direct understanding is just like when you saw it the very famous and usual example there are many of them the rope and the snake is the very commonly used and when you first you thought there’’s a snake and you label them snake and then you believe it is a snake and then you are scared that the snake is going to bite you and you’’ll be very careful and all that and suddenly you have a big light or whatever something happens you realize it’’s not a snake and that fear created by the doubt of that being a snake and doubt of being a snake both are like that cleared because directly your eye consciousness saw it and confirmed it so that cleared that doubt that is what you called direct defusing of doubt now indirect defusing of the doubt is reasoning 004530

if this is the case then it has to be this, it has to be this, it has to be this, each one of them must have solid reason and then reverse the back one is this not then cannot be this then cannot be this then cannot be this and reversing it back and through reasoning knowing it is not right or it is right and that is how indirectly diffuse the doubt.

And then there are certain doubts for example like reincarnation or karma and all of those and many of them you cannot diffuse our doubt either directly or indirectly and though karma seems to be simple and easy and comes at the earlier stage of study so we begin to look down on karma but it is it isn’’t the subtle karma is more difficult to understand than the emptiness itself. Buddha repeatedly said that many times so there are a number of them you cannot even clear through reasoning and when you cannot.... You know if you look in the logical reasons and doubt has come out when you’’re not knowing what you’’re not knowing is divided into three categories very not knowing (Rimpoche laughs) and absolutely not knowing and very not knowing and not knowing so not knowings can be cleared by the direct things direct mind (concentrations?) and very is also by logical reasoning and all this cleared absolutely not knowing impossible to know it is really and that is only done by.... Now it becomes slightly dogma and then that is only done by reliable quotations of reliable person such as Buddha or things like that.... that is why quotations sometimes becomes important because our level there is something which can sort of almost impossible never can understand 004814

so those levels have to be solved only by quotations until the individual person’’s level increases and they may be able to see it better... Emptiness is not one of them subtle karma is one of them. So did I go off your question or completely out somewhere or……

Audience: no no I think that was appropriate to what... The field of this question and it may touch on this next one in some way.... How is what we experience as intuition or described as gut feeling related to the mental faculties?

Intuition

Rimpoche: I think this mental faculties are working and that’’s why this intuitions are there and because mental faculties are working there is intuition and correct gut feelings are there and then the…… I don’’t know it is…… one of those mental faculties I don’’t know maybe combination of a couple of them maybe I don’’t know the answer is I don’’t know but on the other hand I am not ignoring the intuitions intuitions are very important and but it is not necessarily correct either nor its necessarily wrong either so that is there too so you have to be open minded I believe that’’s no mystery about it anyway simple straightforward, okay

audience: okay this one is a general practical question how do we use what we’’re learning here every day?

Rimpoche: I will think about it I think it should strongly support our daily functioning and daily practices and daily work whatever we’’re doing by seeing all this how it’’s working it should really enhance rather than not knowing what to do but it could be confusing too I don’’t blame you I don’’t know what to say (Rimpoche laughs)

audience: Rimpoche we have one last question from yesterday that just floated down here on to this paper so if you don’’t mind changing subject.... what is the energy as you refer to the horse and what is the relationship with subtle consciousness? 005231

Rimpoche: the energy is the base and subtle consciousness is supposed to be remain within that base and it is just like we’’re giving you the example horse and horse man and horse man rides the horse and go and horse carries them around so very often that energy... we even call it Shembellung... Shembellung means air that you’’re supposed to ride on so…… So what was the question?

audience: what is that energy and then what is the relationship with subtle consciousness

Rimpoche: I think there’’s a dependent relationship between these two subtle consciousness and and they really dependent each so dependent relationship without that subtle consciousness I don’’t think there is that subtle energy without that subtle energy I don’’t think that subtle consciousness (doesn’’t, does?) work so this subtle consciousness what were talking about is 005408

Actually we are talking about this.... what we’’re saying the continuation of discontinuity we’’re talking to you mind that comes from the previous life to the future life and the mental basis or the physical basis that functions within this life I think we are all referring to that one to that one and this one is this energy and this mind is the mind and that really caughts into when you’’re taking rebirth and that caughts interest through the....interest at the womb and all of those I think are referring to this particular mind and extremely subtle extremely subtle and it is so subtle that question of pure, impure if it does not even rise since it is not impure so it is considered to be pure so that’’s my take it so subtle so that sometimes they think this is some kind of ultimate level which it is certainly not which is the basis of our self whether it is part of something else or not I’’m not sure so a lot of earlier (grayree?) Hindu philosophers called that Atma and Nagarjuna Buddhist said there is no Atma 005628

so the Hindus probably referred this one as Atma so we referred this as collectively existing still although it is there almost there almost look like permanent it looks like inherent existence but it is not because collectively existence and it is almost say here it is the you can almost say here it is the..... this is it yes you can almost say that and it is to that point and because but it is.... it is not because it is collective so I guess that’’s it and it’’s interesting to notice sometimes even really the great peoples are sometimes will take this as this is it because beyond that what else.... what else does not mean it is that is also true but sometimes it does work I can’’t help it but.... not think this... one of the excellent Geshees available today in the Losaling is not becoming abbot or does anything but just teaching in the city and two years ago he came to Ann Arbor and we had dinner together and so he was talking to you and he’’s referring to the Lamrimbah the very famous teacher who passed away two, three years ago in Tibet, Lamrimbah and the (Banitah?) was telling me the Lamrimbah’’s view is definitely mind only school not 005903

his hands going on like that and so and because certain view where the Lamrimbah looked into this and Banitah said if this is not the mind only view than what else is mind only view tell me and he try to talk to me and I said look Lamrimbah is a great being and you know and so lets not call it mind only person he said what? 005940

If that’’s not where else? That is how sometimes even great ones been work that way and that is this the subtle energy and subtle mind what we are talking about is the mind only and it’’s the identification of mind only school this is it what it is this it so I guess that’’s it

audience: that was the last question

Rimpoche: okay John Moran wants to ask a question can you give him that microphone?

Subtle consciousness

audience: a minute ago you said that the subtle consciousness was pure

Rimpoche: because it is not impure

audience: but doesn’’t the subtle consciousness carry your positive and negative karmas from one existence to the next?

Rimpoche: karmic imprint does not necessarily mean it is a part of it

audience: oh I see

Rimpoche: your mind is working it carries negative karma how can it be pure right?

Audience: yes that’’s what I was thinking

audience: if it’’s part of samsara it doesn’’t have to be contaminated? Because everything is contaminated?

Rimpoche: hah! Mind works well very good you caught me there you caught me there yes everything is contaminated if it’’s contaminated how can it be pure and how can it be not impure? Big question really I don’’t know I don’’t know I think it is too subtle so it is way beyond way way beyond really talking about pure and impure but you know then it really gets down to a lot of other things you know like the nature of the mind is luminous and all negatives are like a cloud temporary cloud it goes against that too good thought Jonathan I don’’t know what to say okay thank you. Elizabeth you have an answer for that?010303

Audience: no I have a question

Rimpoche: are you coming out you have an answer for it

audience: maybe it’’s not impure because it’’s not a mind of action you know that it just is……

Rimpoche: (you are right?) I think it’’s set too subtle beyond so but it’’s part of Samsara it’’s true you know... So don’’t know what to say okay Elizabeth

audience: Rimpoche I probably missed something but I’’m confused about the part of the primordial mind that is subtle you talked about subtle and gross and if I remember correctly you said that the primordial mind is individual, and here……

Rimpoche: what do you mean individual?

audience: unique to the individual

Rimpoche: unique to the individual yes

audience: and here you’’re talking about subtle mind being collective and there something there I don’’t understand are they different things?

Rimpoche: no.... Collectiveness can be unique individual what’’s wrong with it

Different audience member: you are thinking the collective consciousness…… He’’s talking about the collection

Rimpoche: no I’’m thinking the collective means dependent arise I’’m thinking in that way it’’s not the collection of many minds no no thank you well I guess we have to call it a day, not a day but call as…… we are 10 min. earlier but it’’s okay bon appéétit we go a little bit before (the grounds?) that’’s what it is