Archive Result

Soundfile 20090422GRJHNLDO (2)

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Netherlands

Topic Dependent Origination

Transcriber Eric De Vos

Date May 17

Rinpoche begins. 0:00:08.0

Well, before we continue with the TEN DREL TÖPA, and I like to wish everybody a green day today. [chuckling from audience, translator asks “what?” Rinpoche says “Green Day today”, translation follows]

0:00:52.0

Rinpoche: I am trying to wear green today. And I am just thinking how wonderful, if somehow we get international law that Earth day, one day at least you don’t cut the trees, you don’t cut… even you don’t cut the grasses. Chuckles.

[some translation interspersed]

Maybe it become, one day, you never know, but all these logging companies, the companies will cutting the trees everywhere, they’ll be very much against. But at least if you don’t cut trees one day, 24 hours, a year and that will also help +save a lot of trees, anyway.

Ahh, so, I don’t know whether Buddha saw that or not, we don’t know.

0:02:39.7

So, so, in generally speaking, he who speaks. He who speaks on the basis of seeing. It is referring to the person who does work. Doer. And it is refer that doer as Buddha as doer, and what did he do is he saw the subject that… that dependent origination. And… so, so, the dependent origination, what Buddha really saw as dependent origination, and when he share what he saw, that, no… the share might not be the right word. When he explain what he really saw, and that is why he is become the conqueror.

[0:03:53.5 translation 0:04:22.5]

And then… then there is an important point here, that point to be noted. Then they say that is unexcelled, unexcelled teacher. Unexcelled master. The reasons why it is an.. eq.. an.. eq… in.. inequivalent master, because what you taught is a un.. un.. in... [asks “how do you say it?” Translator suggests “unexcelled?”. Yeah, what you taught is an.. unexcelled. Because there is no equivalent or better. Anything else for those of us who are seeking liberation. So your knowledge is unexcelled knowledge. Your experience is unexcelled experience, and your guidance is unexcelled guidance. That because it tells you the stage and how in your teaching, how does one individual do lead to the liberation was actually explained.

[0:06:03.0 translation 0:06:58.1]

And also it is said dependent origination. Did not say interdependent... interdependent nature. Just… just did not say depen… uhh… interdependent. Ih… the interdependent and dependent origination has difference. Interdependent is the interconnection, interrelation. It is explained, we are all connected, we are all dependent. Dependent origination meaning the the.. the meaning or the essence of emptiness is interdependentness. And the meaning.. and the essence of interdependentness is emptiness. In other words, emptiness meaning, the meaning of the emptiness is interdependentness, and interdependentness meaning is emptiness. And that is why dependent origination rather than interdependence. Did you get it?

[translator “I hope so]

[tranSCRIBER note] In the preceding paragraph (beginning at 0:06:58.1) I have tried to get the words exactly as spoken. The difference between dependent origination and interdependent is made clear. But Rinpoche then uses the word “interdependentness” which is neither “interdependent” nor “dependent origination”. A similar question arises in the paragraph after 0:58:22.4, where the unity of "void" and "interdependent" is discussed. Various words of this kind have been used in various ways by various translators, and I am wondering whether Jewel Heart has established some standardization of terms that would make this sort of paragraph easier to untangle]

[0:08:28.4 translation 0:09:20.9]

OK Good. So… [long pause until 0:09:40.5]

OK. Maybe, maybe that much is enough. [pause until 0:10:09.9]

OK, so that should be covered the first outline of the praising in general and specific. [some translation interspersed] So now the second is the actual body of the teaching, and the conclusion. Actual body of the teaching itself has… let’s say… Actual body of the teaching will be to increase intelligence faith to Buddha. That is one, and two should be made into… into, because of that, remember the kindness of the earlier masters. And then developing profound respect to the masters. Developing compassion for living beings. Dedicating for the longevity of Buddha’s teaching. So, got like five points, right?

0:13:09.7

The first what we got is to develop intelligence faith to Buddha, right? So let us say how we going to establish that. We going to establish that… that… by establishing Buddha is faultless. By establishing Buddha is the only reliable, faultless. Faultless. Only reliable, faultless.

Sorry, I am sort of doing both together. Making the outlines and try to see how it going to work.

Buddha is faultless. You can’t stop there. Buddha is faultless because it is the reliable...ble guide those who are seeking liberation. I should have done that yesterday, but I was running around yesterday, you know. Then because of that, Buddhism, Buddha’s teaching is the reliable path to lead to the… to the liberation.

0:15:57.0

OK. Third, because of that, we co…co… co… we commemorate a Buddha. OK. OK. So the Buddha is the reliable, and can be established by the idea of establishing Buddha’s teaching is faultless. Because of Buddha’s teaching is faultless, and then Buddha is faultless. Because Buddha is faultless. Buddha’s teaching is faultless because it is dependent origination. OK. Because it is dependent origination it is reliable for liberation.

OK, now, uh.. what do I have, Tong Pa Gye Mey .. ????? Tong Pa Gye Mey La … [Rinpoche is mulling over some words as a whisper] Ten Jung ???? Oh…. …

0:18:29.5

OK, Maybe that will establish, I think.

OK, so, now, if you move it to the second verse.

2 JIG TEN GÜ PA J NYE PA

DE YI TSA WA MA RIG TE

GANG ZHIG THONG WÄ DE DOG PA

TEN CHING DREL WAR JUNG WAR SUNG

3 DE TSE LO DANG DEN PA YI

TEN CHING DREL WAR JUNG WAI LAM

KYÖ KYI TEN PAI NÄ NYI DU

JI TAR KONG DU CHÜ MI GYUR

4 DE TA LAG NA GÖN KYÖ LA

TÖ PAI GOR NI SU ZHIG GI

TEN NÄ JUNG WA SUNG PA LÄ

NGO TSHAR GYUR PA CHI ZHIG NYE

These three verses, verse 2, verse 3 and verse 4 should be able to established. Should be able to established the … the.. … Should be able to establish the.. the dependent origination explanation is makes you reliable for the liberation seekers.

OK

0:20:49.5

You people are doing homework with me, right.

OK, how you going to establish dependent origination explanation is .. is. is.. becomes reliable for those who are seeking liberation.

OK, Number one. Is… is liberation is possible or not? Is it really true when you say I can be liberated? Is it really true? Is it .. can I be really liberated? Or just, change, change, change, and you know become older and die, and that’s end of it? Or, how is it? That itself is big question in our mind. You know, all of you are here because you wanted to help yourself. What kind of help you want it to yourself? Make yourself better. What kind of betterness you want it? The Buddhism tells us else you can be liberated from the suffering and the cause of suffering. The principles of the four noble truths. Suffering and cause of suffering are the two truths which tells us how we enter in Samsara. Cessation and the path, which is the cause of cessation, two last truth tells us how to get out of it. The first two, how did we wind up down here, and then second last, second two, how do we get out of it. So that is sort.. of sort of we are told, said “hey liberation and total enlightenment is your goal”, that is what we heard. We heard for centuries. Liberation and enlightenment. Total enlightenment is the best. Liber… just simple liberation is second. So but are we sure, is it possible? And that is the most important. If it is possible, it is worth for us to put efforts. If it not possible, why should we bother? Might as well have it, some fun.

[0:24:07.0 translation 0:25:34.0]

There was a school in India during the Buddha’s time. One of the Indian sch.. The earlier. Earlier one of the non-buddhist school. And does not accept liberation, does not. Does not prove there is liberation to the school to taught. Not only they don’t accept or proved, accept is you know, in earlier, today we say accept, believe. But those days there is accept or belief is based on reasoning, convincing, rather than just our teacher said so, or tradition said so. It is not. It is reasoning, because it is the teacher himself and the teaching tradition at that time. So not only does not only be in liberation, but does not even believe in past, present, and future lives. So, so they, they name is to make happy in this life. And so much so that in their system the father can marry daughter, because the daughter resembles to the… to your… wife. So… so they think it is fun to get married to daughter, and not thinking of the daughter’s well being. But is male chauvinist society, so , so , so where if you don’t acc… if you don’t have it, idea of liberation, if you don’t have the idea of past, present and future, then what is wrong with you getting married to your daughter?

[0:28:06.0 translation 0:29:11.1]

And because there is no consequences. [brief translation interspersed] Also no morality issue. To right, because there’s no consequences. Today we don’t do that because afraid of law or anything else, you know. But there was somebody who kept a daughter in basement or something, remember, just last month or last couple of months ago, right? So, to the mind of that people, to the mind of that people, that particular person, within that mind it is nothing wrong. Right? So, so this is important for us to see. See, all of them, you know, to see all this. Liberation. See past, present, and future. Not lives, but past, present and future, cause and effect, and they are very important aspects in our life and lives, because all of those, if there is no consequences, either reward or consequences, then everything becomes funny and crazy. Everything can become funny and crazy.

[0:31:26.1 translation 0:31:52.3]

So ignorance of not knowing, or the wrong knowing, is the sources of all our problems and difficulties. [brief translation interspersed] So, so the word here, the next word JIG TEN… Whatever degenerations there are in the world, the root of all these is ignorance. Again, whatever, whatever it is refers to outer environment, inner inhabitants, even in inner habitants itself we’re referring to like birth, aging, illness, death, or obsession, etc.. Obsession, fear, etc.. are… are… are, you know are coming out of ignorance. And when they say coming out of ignorance it means the ignorance is cause, and these are the result. The result also there is direct result, indirect result, similar causal result, and.. and all of those are the, the causing of… causing of causal karma, or delusion, including imprint of delusion.

[0:34:48.5 translation 0:36:29.5]

In short, what we don’t want it, what we wanted get rid of it, whatever is there, they are all rooted to the ignorance. [brief translation interspersed] When you go to read the word, that is what it tells you, right? So what is ignorance? Self, and the identity of self, what we call it phung po. Or collection of heap. Heap, collection of heap, phung po or collection of heap. Right? And then thinking, that is what the word what we should use is “inherent existence”. But that may hurt us, you know, but, you know, really, thinking heap as collection and self as identifing by this collection, identify, both of them are [ell???] solid, strong, permanent, but again word permanent, inherent, they may becomes philosophical through logical, you know, but real solidness and.. and accepting that as somthing very solid, which is actually stupid. And that particular mental faulty is called ignorance.

[0:38:53.9 translation 0:39:57.0]

It is difficult one, because we don’t think about it. [brief translation interspersed] We don’t think about it, we just say I. Something very strong, very solid, and that’s... that’s how we perceive. Also we perceive that as important, most important. That very idea what we have is the idea not analyzed, not thought about it, sort of simple the moment they say “hey you”, you say “me?”, I. There is nothing wrong with that idea, nothing wrong with that idea. It is… it is unanalyzed, unthought, nothing process thought-wise, simply you, me, there is nothing wrong with it. Nor you have to negate. Because that is, that is sort of normal, everyday. Everybody’s acceptance of “me”. At the moment you begin to think deeper, “what is it, is it permanent, impermanent, is it person or is it other-than-person. Is it form, or energy, or whatever. The moment you begin to think, think, then we get into difficulties.

0:43:09.2

And then you may say, OK, if I get into trouble because of that, then I shouldn’t think about it. [brief translation interspersed] That also not right. You know why? If you don’t think, you are never going to be liberated, honestly. Although, that acceptance of “me” is nothing wrong, nothing wrong. Nothing wrong is fine. Nothing wrong will not going to liberate you. So, you have to think about it. When you think about it, then things go wrong. But it is necessary, because we have to find object of negation. Otherwise, what you going to negate? When you can’t find object of negation, then you have to say, yes, yes, yes, I have, I exist, no, no, no, I don’t exist, neither I exist nor I don’t exist. All of them come in, because you can’t find object of negation. Some people will say, don’t think, just sit. And watch your mind is understood as “do nothing”. Anything what you doing, right? by mind, is not to be done. It looks like in Holland, in Holland, particularly, and people talk about meditation, mindfulness, it looks like separately they are talking. I wonder what that mindfulness is all about it. Probably watching your mind, thinking nothing, doing nothing, my… I am afraid it might be. Anything thoughts come in, peel it like peeling the orange skins. And you know, like throwing off, throwing off, throwing off. If that is mindfulness you are talking about it, you don’t have go and to tell outside. According to the Buddha that is wrong.

[0:46:55.6 translation 0:47:22.0 ]

And easy for me to say according to the Buddha it is wrong. If you leave it there that is not fair. You have to say why is this wrong. [brief translation interspersed] You know, by not entertaining any thoughts, sitting, reduce activity of mind. Mind activity has both positive and negative both. Pure love and obsession. Compassion, hatred. All kinds of. Jealousy, appreciation. All of those are the mental activities. When you see right or… when you see what is right or wrong, see nothing, just suppress everything. Anything comes up, start to throw it, start to throw it. Sitting dull is very relaxing, no doubt, extremely relaxing. What that’s doing is suppressing the all emotions, both positive and negative. So you also suppressed all negative thoughts, so the negative thoughts are very… very strongly reduced. Doesn’t’ come up, doesn’t pop up. Very calm, very quiet. Very nice, wonderful. But you did not get rid of it. You put them to sleep. You putting them to sleep. You did not get… it is very good, happy, at that moment, for a while, until a condition arises.

0:49:57.2

There is a praise to Buddha by earlier anti-Buddhist master who became Buddhist later, who says, he says, [??? dzi tses par du tsong nye gyen tong…??? 0:50:15.8 Tibetan] He said it went to the peak of Samsara, highest they could go, yet… yet suffering come back, and Samsara returns. So, which is very important point. That person… that the person’s been meditating, doing nothing, you don’t need to eat, you don’t need to drink, you don’t have to do anything. Go. Hair grow so long, and going even at the ground level. Then suddenly they found the mice making a nest in their hair, then get.. then get angry and returns back. So that is return to Samsara. Returning. So it is Samsara revising [reviving ???], and that is because it’s only suppressed, not get rid… not… not… not… eliminated.

[0:51:37.0 translation 0:53:26.4]

OK, so, so that is the problem. You are reduced, almost non-existence of negative emotion. That is also not so bad. Some level it reduces intelligence completely and increases it is almost like childlike. Lack of knowledge of right or wrong can sometimes pop up. [brief translation interspersed] And almost like made individual like a senile person. These are the mediation problems. OK, what did we do, what did we do?

JIG TEN GÜ PA J NYE PA

DE YI TSA WA MA RIG TE

Right? [translator “yes”] So, so, that ignorance is self and self… identity of self. Is a sort of knowing. I use the word “knowing”. There is no valid reason through which that mind knows, but mind accept that. That is… that is… that is called ignorance, right? So, when you see the reality of everything, me, you, every existence, when you see the reality that reality will contradict with this idea of unquestionable solidness, will be contradicted. Will be contradicted by this. And so… so, because when it is contradicted, that power of that contradiction will clear that sort of mystical darkness of the solidness will be clarified. It is lighted out. And, so, so, when you light it out, it defeats that ignorance. And that is why we call it wisdom contradicts ignorance.

[0:57:36.2 translation 0:58:22.4]

And what makes that clear? That will make clear by the unite... unite… two things unite. Unite of void and interdependent. [brief translation interspersed] Interdependent is dualistic activity. And empty is void activity. But the combination of that un… is uni.. ity... is unite… uniting [unity??? 0:59:38.9]. Not only unity [uniting???] two different things, but essence of void is… is interdependent. Interdependent essence is void, becoming one. Really completely united. So, that is what Buddha saw, and that is what Buddha experienced. That is what Buddha taught. OK? So, that is the first “he who saw what… he who speak what he saw”, and that all refers to this.

[1:01:12.2]

Yea, I think it is lunchtime. But… I, might well as do the second one.

DE TSE LO DANG DEN PA YI

TEN CHING DREL WAR JUNG WAI LAM

KYÖ KYI TEN PAI NÄ NYI DU

JI TAR KONG DU CHÜ MI GYUR

That third verse is easy, you can just read it. So how can an intelligent person not comprehend that is, that, this path of dependent origination is the essential point of you, the Buddha’s teaching. Unless you are stupid, right? So I think that is the third verse. Does not need lots of explanation.

OK, bon appétit. [Rinpoche ends at 1:02:22.0]

[blank space from 1:02:35.0 to 1:02:42.4, where it continues only in Dutch, no English beyond]