Archive Result

Soundfile 20090422GRJHNLDO (3)

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Netherlands

Topic Dependent Origination

Transcriber Eric De Vos

Date July 1, 2021

Session 3

0:07:56.2 Rimpoche begins.

OK, so I think, DE TSE LO DANG DEN PA YI, so we did the third one.

Now the fourth verse,

DE TA LAG NA GÖN KYÖ LA

TÖ PAI GOR NI SU ZHIG GI

TEN NÄ JUNG WA SUNG PA LÄ

NGO TSHAR GYUR PA CHI ZHIG NYE

This being so, who will find, O Savior,

A more wonderful way to praise you

Than [to praise you] for having taught

This origination through dependence?

[Rimpoche softly repeats the Tibetan verse 4]

[Brief translation]

So, I think these last three verses are saying these last verses saying saying Buddha is the base of what you talking about, talking about Buddha as base.

[Brief translation interspersed]

So praising you as master of interdependent origination is the equivalentless, unexcelled praise, because you taught so many dharma, so many dharma for liberate all living beings from suffering. And the most important liberator from the suffering is, is the dependent origination itself. In other words, you have said, you have taught so many things. All are meant for individuals liberate from suffering. The most important liberator from the suffering is nothing but dependent origination and therefor praising you to be from the teaching of dependent origination point, from the teacher of dependent origination point is the unexcelled praise. You know, why I said Buddha is base, there is logical system. The logical system, how it works on basis that you try to establish something, whatever… So, how they work is, how they work is, how they work is, is based on Buddha. Then praising you to through the dependent origination is the unexcelled, because you then given the reason. So a base, point to be established, reasons why to be established. So, you know, like always the logical working system … So, three points, you know. These are the, whenever you work out with the logical points, three things you have to have it. And out of the three things, base, if you don’t establish the base, or if you don’t have a specific base, you say so on anything. But base, point what you want to establish, and the reasons how you are going to establish the point. So they are all interlinked.

[0:13:26.5 translation 0:15:00.4]

So one, when you say the dependent origination and they talk to you two things, two things. Ignorance creates karma. Right? There is a twelve link of interdependent system. If you look at in that, ignorance creates karma, then creates third link, which divided into two, right? And then the first causal level of consciousness, and then there is a fourth dependent and so, fourth dependent link and so and forth, finally lead up to the twelfth, which is aging and dying and all that. And that is the interdependent origination of making it.

[0:16:13.5 translation 0:16:56.0]

Interdependent link of making it, when I am saying it don’t think of picture, of twelve link picture and then circle it. Don’t do that. The think of it how I can be here today, today and all that. Likewise, each and every one of us look at the right, look at the left, look at the back, look in the front, all of us have that twelve link of our own, which is we are using.

[brief translation]

So, that is, that is the one link of coming up. Another link is kind of going backwards.

[brief translation]

[0:18:20.6]

Going backwards, that is, that is by, by locking, by blocking the ignorance. The ignorance creation blocks, ignorance creation blocks, conscious blocks, name and form blocks, and then the senses blocks, right? And then touch, feeling, attachment, birth, all blocks. So it is linking coming in and going out. That is, in other words, you know, you have interdependent origination means origination of all this.

[0:19:10.1 translation and interaction with an individual audience member through 0:20:28.5]

Said, said, interdependent means both ways. Coming up and going out.

[brief translations interspersed]

OK, so. So these three verses actually establish that. And that is why this dependent origination is actually essence of Buddha’s teaching. Also, it is studied when you look at the Pitakas, you know, the baskets, two other baskets are like utensil, and this wisdom is like essence.

This also the reason why Buddha came as official Buddha. Yah, so, Buddha came as official Buddha because that is the main message that Buddha needs. All other messages, everyone has it. Like meditation is available in every tradition everywhere. Morality is available in every tradition everywhere. And everything is available for everywhere. But what is the uniqueness of Buddha’s teaching is that dependent origination. And that is not available anywhere. This is the one important key in Buddha’s teaching, an extremely important key in Buddha’s teaching because, because, you know, sacrificing, taking hardship to reduce negativity is everywhere, every tradition will tell you. Purification, take hardship, you know, sometimes even more extreme in the different teaching traditions than Buddhism. Like burning yourself, burning your fingers, burning your physical things. You know, even the sadhus throw the and fire the body. Some Muslims beat themselves. Shia’s beat themselves up and get blood out of your body. They are all purifications they do, and earlier non-Buddhist teachers and non-Buddhist traditions, you know, they have fasting and even death by not eating. And all of those hardship is everywhere, morality, and discipline, they are all, everybody has it.

[0:24:43.2 translation 0:25:36.4]

That is the, you know this expression in the West? …Don’t work hard, work smart. Everybody knows work hard, very few people know work smart. That is the reason why they said this is the reason why Buddha appeared as Buddha, why Buddha came as official Buddha. Because this, to deliver this particular message.

Anyway, so, I think that covers our first outline.

Then the second actual place… OK. That has three, I think… How does, how does Buddha explain, how Buddha explain.

[0:27:49.4]

You know one important point I am almost getting forgotten is here. That is I said one of the reasons, important reason’s why Buddha came is giving this message, right? And other than that, Buddha has no other way of removing the suffering of people. Neither it can be removed by hand, nor can be washed by water. You know we used to quote “the cannot wash the negativities by water, nor can it can remove, but it can only clear by explaining,” right? So, profound, that’s why it is called profound teaching even.

[0:28:51.4 translation 0:29:23.4, interspersed thereafter]

OK, now how did Buddha explains the emptiness as essence of interdependent, and interdependent as essence of emptiness. It is one verse, verse 5.

GANG GANG KYEN LA RAG LÄ PA

DE DE RANG ZHIN GYI TONG ZHÄ

SUNG PA DI LÄ YA TSHEN PAI

LEG DOM TSHUL NI CHI ZHIG YÖ

“Whatever depends on the conditions, [this line slightly different than in the text]

That is devoid of intrinsic existence.”

What excellent instruction can there be

More amazing than this statement?

You know, GANG GANG KYEN LA RAG LÄ PA, so the GANG GANG it is really, whatever it may be, inner beings or outer phenomena, whatever may be, it is existence is depends in the cause and condition. And that and this. You know, earlier we said, whether it is internal or external, whatever, you know. So no you say this and that. This and that is lack of intrinsic existence, because it is depend on cause, conditions.

[0:32:18.9]

So, then that is, this is the second two. Don’t need explains how wonderful it is, right? [translator questions???] The second two lines you don’t need to explain what an excellent introduction can their be, more amazing than this statement, this doesn’t really need to explain.

The point is this, when we are seeing, sitting, or thinking, we don’t really the moment we use word intrinsic existence or natural existence, immediately we think ahh it is some kind of deeper in philosophy, something, you know. Reality is, when you said it depends, it depends, means, means dependent. Depend. I carry that stick, why? It helps. You can depend on it. When you are depending on it, you need to depend on it, you don’t walk independently. I mean it is really, I mean in my case it is helpful. To some people it is totally depend, you have these walkers, right? You walk, so totally depend because you can’t walk. You depend on the walker. So, by showing depend on other than yourself, which indicates you are not an independent existence.

[0:34:27.9 translation 0:35:21.1, interspersed thereafter]

OK, not only that, GANG GANG KYEN LA RAG LÄ PA. Whosoever depend on the condition, depend on the condition, depend on the condition, also eliminates extreme nonexistence, because you are depending on. So, depending on means something is depending, so extreme end of non-existence, or the nihilistic point is cut. Devoid of intrinsic existence, the second word. Devoid of intrinsic existence eliminates extreme existence. OK? So now, what does that, what does that mean, this one particular point, eliminates both extreme points, the extreme of nihilistic and extreme of existentialist, or not existentialist, extreme of [translator suggests eternalism] eternalism. Both of them are clipsed [0:38:02.1 unclear whether that should be “eclipsed”] together by one reasoning.

[0:38:07.7 translation 0:38:24.5 interspersed thereafter]

So, so, so this is what, what is saying, the essence of emptiness is interdependentness, the dependent origination. Essence of dependent origination is emptiness. That is what the Buddha’s main teaching. If that is the case, what did Buddha say. Buddha said a sutra called [Madröpa… 0:39:14.8], Sutra called, some guy named Madröpa he asked Buddha a question so the answer Buddha giving was [gan shay kye la gya wa…. 0:39:27.6] Whatsoever, grown out of condition, is not grown. Paraphrasing the sutra, yah, name not known, anyway, it is in Tibetan so the Madröpa … [0:40:07.6 hard to hear] I don’t know, so whatever, [hard to hear] [Translation for a while, then the translator asks “could you repeat the quote from the st…” Rinpoche begins in Tibetan, then starts in English 0:40:27.8]. Whatever is grown out of condition it’s not grown. It is paraphrasing. [more Tibetan… 0:40:53.3] So, that one doesn’t have intrinsic growth. Whatever is dependent on the condition is empty. Whoever knows that empty it is the worthwhile.

[Note: an English translation of the “Sutra Requested by Madröpa” is found at the beginning of Chapter one of “The Sun of Wisdom: Teachings on the Noble Nagarjuna's Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way” by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso (Author), Nagarjuna (Author), Ari Goldfield (Translator), Shambhala; 1st edition (March 11, 2003). It reads as follows:

Whatever arises from conditions does not arise.

It does not have the nature of arising.

Whatever depends on conditions is explained to be empty,

And to know emptiness is the way to be conscientious.

End note]

It is another sutra called [Tashi raben dho ????...Tibetan 0:41:39.0] This is normally, normally explained. Oh, Madröpa… [Tibetan]… is some Naga king I think is [Tibetan] is some Naga king I think earlier. And this one is [Tashi raben dho ????...more Tibetan, ending at 0:42:16.1] So the sound… the sound and letters are come out of you know lips and mouth and tongue and all of them, but neither the sound nor the letters are born, born out of gums or lips or, or, or either one of them, but they all came out of collection, combination.

[0:42:54.8 Translation 0:43:28.6 interspersed thereafter]

So, in this commentary here it says it is almost this particular verse carries almost the meaning of the 26 chapters of Madhyamika root text. So, so, so it is important. So whenever Buddha is telling it is dependent arise, it is only labeling, and it is, it is non-existence, it is empty, and all of them are really, really, meaning this is it. [0:44:47.6 ] So, in short lets us think about it. Emptiness. If is something empty, nothing, you are not going to find it. Nor is it useful for us. It doesn’t do any good. If it is empty it is empty, so what. Right? Also it is not true, because it is all there. So, so it is really means true existence, but not the way we think it is exists. And it has its way of existing. And that is almost conditional. Nothing, really nothing, just cause, conditions, just right. When it is just right, just that point of just right, it is functionable. It is serving the purpose. Serving the purpose is definition of just functioning right. Just functioning. Just functioning. Not only functioning well or not well or… Just functioning. Just functioning it is good enough to be exist. You know, you sometimes you have those very subtle electrical points. You just little touch and it serve all the purposes. It is not something huge thing put together, no, but just tiny little wires, very subtle wires, just touch it is good enough to drive a huge car, or whatever. All of them are just right, you know. So that is the meaning of, meaning of terms and conditions right. When the terms and conditions right, serve the purpose. Serving the purpose means, is the meaning of functioning, and that is the meaning of dependent origination. That is the meaning of empty.

[0:47:51.9 translation 0:49:29.8]

Alright, so, umm, GANG GANG KYEN LA RAG LÄ PA, that is what we are talking about, right? The verse 5, right?

GANG GANG KYEN LA RAG LÄ PA… DE DE RANG … SUNG PA DI LÄ YA ... Didn’t we finish talking that? [translator, Yes] What, what’s that mean [audience inaudible] What are we talking now it is the fifth or the sixth? [translator, Fifth] You sure? [translator, Yes]. Alright. Yah, that’s right. Up to the one says, DOM TSHUL NI CHI ZHIG, yah.

GANG GANG KYEN LA RAG LÄ PA

DE DE RANG ZHIN GYI TONG ZHÄ

SUNG PA DI LÄ YA TSHEN PAI

LEG DOM TSHUL NI CHI ZHIG YÖ

You sure we didn’t talk that? I keep on thinking I did already explain that. Right? [Translator …inaudible.. verse 6. Audience: we already talked verse 5 we’re at verse 6, 0:50:43.1]

Ahh, that’s it, that’s it, that’s it. This all goes together, OK, that is why I am confused between where we breaking down today, so… So, [Rinpoche reviews, under his breath, the last two lines of the verse 5 translation], so, what excellent... Amazing than this… which we really talk about it, that’s why.

GANG DU ZUNG WÄ CHI PA NAM

THAR DZIN CHING WA TEN CHE PA

DE NYI KÄ LA TRÖ PA YI

TRA WA MA LÜ CHÖ PAI GO

TEN DI ZHEN DU MA THONG WÄ

TÖN PA ZHÄ JA KYÖ NYI DE

WA KYE LA NI SENG GE ZHIN

MU TEG CHEN LA-ANG TSAM BU-I TSHIG

E MA-O TÖN PA E MA-O KYAB

E MA-O MA CHOG E MA-O GÖN

TEN CHING DREL JUNG LEG SUNG PAI

TÖN PA DE LA DAG CHAG TSAL

So that is verse six, seven, eight, goes together here. [0:51:42.6]

So, GANG DU ZUNG WÄ CHI PA NAM, By grasping at it the childish, childish, childish is childlike, right? Like kid, sort of, they are not looking down, but, sound like looking down, it is looking down. Ahh, why they are looking down, why they are calling childish, childish, because not so intelligent enough to be able to understand. Why not so intelligent enough? Ahh, because you don’t see the cutting the two extremes. Because you are holding the extremes. You are influenced by the views of either extreme. Ahhh, So, you don’t get the idea of dependent origination and therefor you are not matured, childish. They don’t call it stupid, they call it childish.

[0:53:40.7 translation 0:54:22.3 interspersed thereafter]

So you have no knowledge of understanding or explanation of dependent origination. So, so your viewpoints are right tight, either have or not have, either extreme existence, or nihilistic. So either point is the two extreme ends. You are holding it tight because you don’t have knowledge, or information or understanding, or experiencing of a middle. So the cutting these extreme views are your own very special way. So, you are called master. Others are who can’t explain that, who are caught in those extremes, it is life the wolf that wearing the skin of a lion. Lions. You know, lion dance we do. We do lion dance where human beings wear lion masks and dance. [interruption from audience] Oh, coffee break, I am sorry. Lion dance we do, so that is what we are talking about it. So it is become the word of flattery.

[0:57:01.2]

So,

Since this teaching is not seen elsewhere,

You alone are the “Teacher” [or the master],

Like calling a fox a lion, for a Tirthika,

It would be a word of flattery.

So let’s read this,

8 E MA-O TÖN PA E MA-O KYAB

E MA-O MA CHOG E MA-O GÖN

TEN CHING DREL JUNG LEG SUNG PAI

TÖN PA DE LA DAG CHAG TSAL

Says,

Wondrous teacher! Wondrous refuge!

Wondrous speaker! Wondrous savior!

I pay homage to that teacher

Who taught well dependent origination.

E ma-o is a surprising word, right? Ahhh. When you are talking about the teacher or protector, or leader, you are talking, when you are talking about master, you are talking about person who gives you the way to the liberation. When you are talking about the leader or the protector you are talking about the protecting the individual from the two fears, fear of nirvana and fear of samsara.

[0:59:31.0]

And among the masters, the outstanding cream of, cream of, what is it? Icing on the cake. The icing on the cake is the one who taught interdepend, dependent origination. And that is you, the Buddha, I bow to you. So what does this tells us? This really tells us, tells us, the, again, the ess, you know we talked earlier but the essence of emptiness is inter, dependent origination and essence, or interdependentness. Essence of interdependentness is the emptiness. So means, empty means dependent origination, dependent origination means empty. That’s really what this one established.

[1:01:03.2]

Actually I would like to cover this much today but after coffee we can do a little more. Because I am looking at this, and there is like 58 I think 58 verses, and dividing them into, into 4 and so I think today we need to cover seven but we covered eight, so I think it is. But still sometime there may be few verses, most of them few verses less. So that way, try to sort of cover nice way.

So enjoy your coffee.