Archive Result

Soundfile 20090422GRJHNLDO (13)

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Netherlands

Topic Dependent Origination

Transcriber Eric De Vos

Date January 23, 2023

Prayers through [0:24:57.0]

[Rimpoche]

Do kindly generate pure motivation as normally described in the tradition of Lam Rim. If not, at least for the benefit of all sentient beings, one would like to obtain the ultimate state of the Buddha, for which I would like to listen to this wisdom teaching and practice and get the result. So, with that motivation.

[Translator to 0:26:04.5]

[Rimpoche]

All right. So with this motivation what you listening to the teaching is Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa's praise to the Buddha, his embrace of independent?? origination. I think we have covered mostly everything up to yesterday. [brief translation]. And then here only did completed commemorating Buddha, and then now commemorating the earlier Indian masters, what we call it, [Tibetan, Shing da Chen po ?? 0:27:10.2 ], which really means forerunners of Buddhist masters [brief translation].

He commemorated such a way. First he said what the Tibetan explained so far is unreliable, absolutely unreliable. Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa said, yeah. [brief translations interjected]. And then, second, he said, even in India there is so many different theoretical viewpoints. Finally, appreciating the great forerunners such as Nagarjuna and Chandrakirti.

Ok. The first, unreliable Tibetans. That's 46.

DE TAR ME DU JUNG WA YI

LUG ZANG DE YANG MI KÄ PAI

KYE BÖ BAL BA DZA ZHIN DU

NAM PA KUN DU DZING PAR CHÄ

[Translator reads the Dutch translation of verse 46.]

So, saying, like we explained above, it is marvelous wonderful system.

This excellent system, most marvelous,

Some individuals who are not so learned

Have entangled it in utter confusion,

Just like the tangled balbaza grass.

Balbaza is Tibetan language, not even translated. It is a grass, that grass that sort of goes around and makes a big lump, a kind of balbaza. I never know what balbaza is, you know. [could it be like "tangle weed"?] [brief translation].

[0:30:54.5]

So here comes the... I mean it is a part of Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa himself is expressing his own experience, because you know in his study he had teachers from all traditions. Kagyu, Sakya, because before Tsongkhapa there is no Gelugpa, right? So, from all the traditions he had, particularly Lama Umapa, from the Umapa [inaudible 0:31:39.1]. Anyway, Lama Umapa from Sakya tradition,

who had a personal contact with the Manjushri, be able to speak to each other. Then you also have the Lodrak Drupchen Lekyi Dorje, who also can speak Vajrapani, like person to person. And with all that, but when it comes to the point of wisdom, Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa could not satisfied with all these explanations. So, when he goes and asks Manjushri through Lama Umapa, saying "this doesn't make sense, there is a contradiction here". And so the Manjushri tells Lama Umapa tells Tsongkhapa through Lama Umapa, "yes, you're right, there's a mistake here." So, but they said Manjushri said the Tibetans unable to get it.

[0:33:13.5 Translator 0:34:13.1]

[Rimpoche]

Then it's been confirmed through Lodrak Drupchen Lekyi Dorje, through Vajrapani, and he said the same thing too. [brief translations interjected]. Then Jamyang Lama then wants to go to India to learn. He was really going to go to India. Then, for the finally backed by everyone not to, and also encouraged by the Lodrak Drupchen Lekyi Dorje as well as the Umapa. And when they asked Manjushri, Manjushri said when you go to India it's hard to know now how to get in India. It's not that period where these great Indian teachers are there. You know, neither the Nalanda or Vikramashila are functioning. By that time, you know, it is 1400's. Huge Muslim Mogul movement in India. So almost wiped out all the Buddhist things in there. So, the Manjushri has told even you go to India you are not going to get anything.

[0:36:29.2]

So then they said, "what to do?" [brief translations interjected] And Manjushri... I'm making things short, right? The Manjushri encouraged Je Tsongkhapa to go to retreat. And then, again these, all those teachers beg Manjushri, don't let Tsongkhapa go to retreat because there are thousands of people he is teaching. So don't let him go to retreat, because it will be have a lot of difficult for a lot of people. So, finally, even it was reported that Manjushri has to tell Lama Umapa, "do you think I know better than I do?" Then they have agree, you know they have to agree. And, not only that they have to agree, but Manjushri says, "yes you're going to go to retreat, but you are not going to take too many people with you. I will select who you take, not you." So Manjushri selected eight people. These eight are known as [Tibetan 0:38:29.2], means pure retinues. That doesn't mean others are not pure, you know, so [chuckles]. So, anyway, then they went to this, that is mountain on Southern side of the Tibet, place called Wölkha. I'm sure some of you've been there, you know so, that is the... [speaking to person in audience] you've been there, right. Alfred's been there. Anyway, it is Southern side of Tibet. That's where you got into trouble with Chinese, right? [general chuckles, and audience response] Yeah, OK. Anyway.

[0:39:21.6 ]

Didn't you tell me you have to write there "I know I can't come here", 200 times, or something. [audience member speaks]. Oh, repeat it. [laughter] Isn't that interesting. [Laughter] So, anyway, that's where the Tsongkhapa had done the purification, like mandala offering. There's no, he have nothing, and it's sort of have no silver, no gold, no copper, not even a clay. So they have a little flat rock. The use that as a mandala offering. And mandala offering, prostrations, and all of them. And finally, the lot of visions of those pure enlightened beings begin with the 35 purifications Buddha, like on the peak of the mountain, on the side. And they getting closer and closer, and clearer and clearer. So making short story. And that's where the Tsongkhapa, what he learned as knowledge transforms as spiritual realization. Not only meditating of both analytical and concentrated meditation. But also done purification, and all those. And that purification accumulation of merit, all of them, seven limb practice, and all of them together.

[0:42:02.4 Translator 0:43:16.6]

[Rimpoche]

So, thereafter Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa be able to not only see, but speak to Manjushri without depending on Lama Umapa going in between. But without divide be able to see and speak, and talk to like person to person. And thereafter, the all of them together, retreating, purification, accumulation of merit, meditation, all together, then that is how it is increased. And his knowledge, understanding, knowledge becomes, you know I mean we said Buddhism yesterday, remember, Buddhism has information aspect and spiritual aspect. The information aspects then transform's and becomes spiritual aspects of Buddhism.

[0:44:34.3 Translator 0:45:18.8]

Then, the 47 continues

TSUL DI THONG NÄ DAG GI NI

BÄ PA DU MÄ KÄ PA YI

JE SU DRANG NÄ KYÖ KYI NI

GONG PA YANG DANG YANG DU TSAL

Seeing this situation, I strove

With a multitude of efforts

To follow after the learned ones

And sought your intention again and again.

So,

[0:45:50.5 Translator 0:46:05.1]

[Rimpoche]

Since now Tsongkhapa realized that the Tibetan explanations are not right, so then he had no other source to look after the Indian earlier masters and their teachings, like that of Six Ornaments and Two Excellences. There is sort of like Six Ornaments, Two Excellences, as eight different people are known as outstanding earlier Buddhist masters. And then many of them, but these eight are commonly known.

[0:46:50.8 Translator 0:47:14.8]

[Rimpoche]

[Verse 48]

DE TSE RANG ZHEN DE PA YI

ZHUNG MANG DAG LA JANG PA NA

CHI CHIR THE TSOM DRA WA YI

DAG GI YI NI KUN DU DUNG

At such times as I studied the numerous works

Of both Buddhist and non-Buddhist schools,

My mind became tormented ever more

Constantly by a network of doubts.

[0:47:46.5Translator 0:47:56.1]

[Rimpoche]

So, meaning, DE TSE RANG ZHEN DE PA YI, Buddhist and non-Buddhist schools. So here I am not sure. This translation made Buddhist and non-Buddhist, right. So in Tibetan it says RANG ZHEN, our side and other side. And our side and other side could be Madhyamika side and other, Chittamatran and other schools. Because this commentary what I am reading, that commentary says Madhyamika and other side. Maybe that's true, because the point of wisdom, all five different early Indian schools have its own view of wisdom. And all four, plus one, different all Buddhist schools have its own view of wisdom. So, you can't say Buddhist and non-Buddhist, you know.

[0:49:25.1 Translator 0:49:54.1]

[Rimpoche]

So, according to this, Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa finding much more difficulty, because the early Indian Buddhist masters, among them Jamyang Lama found their way of thinking is much more profound than the Tibetan masters' way of thinking. And more complicated than the Tibetans' explanations. And he got more doubt than answer. That's why he said constantly, "my mind become tormented, ever more". That's because even the Tibetan early explanations, he could easily figure out they are wrong. But when the Indian, I mean this commentary itself says, they are much more profound. Much more deeper, yet, yes there is a different by each. And so he becomes much more tormented than that of reading the Tibetan commentaries.

[0:51:30.6 Translator 0:52:02.0]

What my understanding is this. First, we don't see. We don't have any doubt. Everything looks so clear. And then confusions will arise. And then the doubt will arise. And these are the way how the individuals lead, led to true understanding. Without confusion, without doubt, it becomes very superficial. Particularly, you know like compassion. It's OK, whether it is going to be... whether it is OK. It's easier, in other words. But the wisdom level, without raising confusion, without raising doubt, is almost impossible to see the truth. We are in habit of physical and mental feelings, and experience as measurement of satisfaction or not satisfaction. Or even right and wrong. Which may or may not be in a position to do however we do. We always do that way. So without getting confused, doubt won't arise. without doubt arising, we cannot clear doubt. Without clearing doubt, you cannot get it, the real reality of everything. That's my understanding. So that's why even the Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa keep on saying I was more confused by looking at the... studying the Indian texts. And more confused. And more tormented, even.

[0:55:01.5 Translator 0:56:58.2]

[Rimpoche]

During the last year's Dalai Lama's presented in Jewel Heart, when he taught this level, he even said, "see, even Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa, how much hardship he went through." [brief translations interjected] So it is difficult. We have to be careful not to draw conclusion too early, because things that we've seen, we heard, and things that we have not seen, not heard. And if you weigh them, things what we see, heard, we know, will be less than half percent, even a percent. Things we have not known, not heard is probably 99.9 percent. So is very... our level not to do early conclusion.

[0:58:33.2 Translator 0:59:04.1]

[Rimpoche]

But study, practice, has to go together, definitely. [brief translations interjected] And individual's making progress. Either the point of knowledge, or point of experience. It is clear indication we're not there yet. Anyway, and then actual appreciation of great forerunners, earlier forerunners, Nagarjuna.

[Verse 49]

KYÖ KYI DA ME THEK PAI TSÜL

YÖ DANG ME PAI THA PANG TE

JI ZHIN DREL WAR LUNG TEN PA

LU DRUB ZHUNG LUG KUN DÄ TSAL

The night-lily grove of Nagarjuna’s treatises –

Nagarjuna whom you prophesized

Would unravel your unexcelled vehicle as it is,

Shunning extremes of existence and non-existence –

So this is when Buddha prophesized Nagarjuna. That particular word almost the same as this, YÖ DANG ME PAI THA PANG TE. So what Nagarjuna really did is the extreme view of existence and non-existence, he shunned, shunning. He stopped. Objected, rejected, is it? Yah, but what Nagarjuna did is not objected, or not rejected, but found out it doesn't work. So, this way it works. So, really, YÖ DANG ME PAI THA PANG TE. The Nagarjuna's view, the why Nagarjuna becomes so important, so famous, and so this, even after all this, among all of them Nagarjuna is much more, and because of this cutting of the two extremes, and the middle path.

[1:02:30.8]

I mean, there are no Tibetan schools or sects, or whatever they call it, who doesn't claim, "we are following Nagarjuna", except Bonpos. Bonpos maybe not Buddhist, or Buddhist, I don't know whatever it is, whatever they are now, but there is no one who claims not following Nagarjuna. Everybody claims following Nagarjuna. So, wherever you look, all the Nyingmas, or [chanters??? 1:03:12.2], authors, within the Nyingmas. Or all the Kagyus, 16 of them. All the Sakyas, all three of them, Lotsawa and Sakya. And all Gelugpas. And so many different schools within Gelugpas also, though it is not commonly known, but each different monasteries, outstanding monastery, have its own treatises. And though they commonly accept Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa and Gyaltsab, Khedrup, all three of them. But, however, you know they have their own little treatises. And no wonder why it is Lamaism, you know, really.

So, anyway, then, in addition to that, each individual Lamas have its own little way too. So, not is officially, but unofficially there is hundreds and thousands of different schools. Honestly, within the Gelugpa. And they all claims to be the true point of Nagarjuna. So why Nagarjuna becomes such a famous is because of this, clipping off the two extremes, and showing the middle path, which even he got.. he been acknowledged as a forerunners. Only two of them within the Buddhist tradition, Nagarjuna and Asanga. Asanga because he went, met with Maitreya Buddha and had all this Prajnaparamitas. And Nagarjuna because of this. So, everybody claims to be the follower of Nagarjuna, follow in Nagarjuna's footstep. So what they are claiming is this middle path.

[1:06:03.6 Translator 1:07:46.7]

[Rimpoche]

That is why YÖ DANG ME PAI THA PANG TE, JI ZHIN DREL WAR LUNG TEN PA. And then that garden of [night-lily], it is Kumuda. If you look in the Tibetan it says [Tibetan 1:08:17.1] Kumuda is the flower that is supposed to be growing... it is related with moonlight. Could be. You know there is one little white flower that grow, that blooms once year in full moon. Even today we have them in our own, some individual houses. Yes, there is one that bloom nice, beautiful, with the wonderful fragrance, and it grows quite big and at the night only it grows. One time, I think a year, Yael Crawford has that flower, and it happens to be grown once when I was staying there. And she's been very proud of that. So maybe that's what is, maybe, maybe not. Who knows. But anyway, it is related to the moonlight, you know. You know, that's why Tsongkhapa said, DRI ME KYEN PAI KYIL KOR GYÄ, the second verse [first line of Verse 50], illuminated by the garland of white lights. So, anyway, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It is a flower that is related to the moon. So, it is poetry that Nagarjuna's teachings are considered like that flower, and that is related... it's connected with the moonlight. It is cool, cool, so giving the relieve the heat of ignorance, ignorance and confusion, that's what it's talking about. [Verses] 49 and 50, both. THAR DZIN NYING GI MÜN PA SEL, says the three [third] lines on that 50. THAR DZIN NYING GI MÜN PA SEL.

[1:10:46.1Translator 1:11:25.0]

[Rimpoche]

I think the word is, illuminated by that garland of flower.

[1:11:32.4 Translator 1:11:56.2]

[Rimpoche]

And then second one, the second, the last sentence of the 50,

LOG MEI GYU KAR ZIL NÖN PA

PAL DEN DA WAI LEG SHE KYI

Ö KAR TRENG WÄ SEL JÄ PA

The three of them, three lines [in the text these are the last line of Verse 50, and the first two lines of Verse 51 1:12:26.7] [Note: in this section of the teaching Rimpoche does not speak the complete verses, but later will recite the whole text at once to complete the lung]

LOG MEI GYU KAR ZIL NÖN PA, PAL DEN DA WAI LEG SHE KYI, Candra, whose stainless wisdom orb is full. Talking about Chandrakirti, like his teaching is like moon, the full moon. [brief translations interjected] Who dispels the darkness of extremist hearts. And outshines the constellations of false speakers. So, referring to Nagarjuna's explanations are more clarified by Chandrakirti. The Eloquence of Speech, not the short one, the longer one, in that, Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa himself says [1:14:32.1 Dze lä kye pe ken gyur ....???? Recites in Tibetan verses by Tsongkhapa through 1:15:01.4] In that Speech of Eloquences, Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa said [1:15:07.6 Dze lä kye pe ken gyur .. Tibetan 1:15:13.4] He said all the great explanations of the earlier Indian learned I have great, highest respect to all of them. However, Samsara and Nirvanas, dependent origination reliable logical backed. Logically supported statements, which finally destroyed extreme holdings, this I received from the moon of Chandrakirti. And thereby, my nightly, the flowers bloomed within my mind. So, when that bloomed, I saw the what it meant by Buddhapalita's talking about it. By seeing what Buddhapalita is talking about it, knowing what Buddhapalita is talking about it, then who cannot respect and hold the banner of Nagarjuna? That's in the other, these are all comparison.

[1:16:42.2 Translator 1:18:05.3]

[Rimpoche]

Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa mentioned here the Nagarjuna, Chandrakirti, Buddhapalita. Buddhapalita directly doesn't say in this word, but the other side, Buddhapalita all mentioned among the all other great Indian masters, because I believe the reason is the day before Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa has realization of the wisdom, he has dreamed [1:19:04.3 Gel say... 1:19:19.0]. This, Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa's secret biography is written by Jamyang Chöje, who is the founder of Drepung monastery. However, his collected work of seventeen are banned. Banned completely. And whatever reason is, somewhere, spiritual, political, whatever reason is, his seventeen volumes are banned. The founder of Drepung, that is huge monastery, the Drepung, and has been banned. Very interesting. I think the reincarnation of that is I think the Khalka Jetsun Dhampa, in... [unclear to hear 1:20:15.7] Mongolia. I think he must be the lineage of this, because Drepung somehow doesn't... does acknowledge but doesn't acknowledge. So the seventeen collected works are banned. They are supposed to have one volume left. One set. One set kept, supposed to. Because, and when we went to Drepung we asked and they said no. They are not available at all. But Gene Smith told me it is available. So probably Gene Smith is right, because they find everything, everywhere, anyway, so.

[1:21:01.5 Translator 1:22:31.5]

So Gene Smith seems to be getting any book available anywhere, whether it is a sealed Chinese library I mean, completely inside Tibet, or it is in Potala, or it is in anywhere, he seems to get it. And somehow, some of them he's been able to buy it. Some of them he borrows, and make copies and send them back. And I think the dealing is done with the librarians or, whoever is keeping, you know. They probably send three or four volumes out and then comes back and another three or four volumes out, and that's what they are doing. So seems like everything is available, almost like what, Forty or fifty thousand volumes, right? Forty or fifty thousand volumes at least in made into electronically available. So it makes very easy for us.

[1:23:35.0 Translator 1:24:10.4]

[Rimpoche]

And strange, he is not a monk, but he is a real monk. He has nothing, no life for whatsoever. He is a former diplomat who studied Tibetan Buddhism and language, particularly literature, history. And now he lives in a small little apartment and he sleeps on the couch every day. And he has a computer. And he has all this huge collection of those Tibetan books. And that's it. That's his life, total. Day in and night, that's it.

[1:24:53.3 Translator 1:25:18.6]

[Rimpoche]

So he get all these books because he also employed a member of parliament from China, an incarnate Lama, so he goes around and get everything for him. [brief translation interjected]. I think he is employed by the Oxford and Gene together. And he is a member of parliament in China too. So they don't have to sit there all the time. [inaudible 1:26:00.7] Anyway, so the Jamyang Chöje had said the dream of the Tsongkhapa is Nagarjuna and five other Indians, and those day there's no photographs. So Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa described the Indians as dark faced, big nose, you know, funny looking people. So, honestly, five of them talking about profound emptiness. He couldn't understand what they are talking about. He could hear it. He could hear the word, sound, everything. But did not understand what they are talking about it. So then Buddhapalita turned out from the conversation and looked back to the Tsongkhapa, and he give a book to him, and put on his head, give blessing of his book. So that's what he dreamed. And the next day someone came and give a copy of the Buddhapalita. Tsongkhapa read Buddhapalita a number of times. I think maybe thirty some times. But then while he is reading that day, chapter 8th or 18th, I forgot whatever, so then he began to realize as understanding of emptiness, not as realization, but understanding of emptiness.

[1:27:47.0 Translator 1:28:36.8]

[Rimpoche]

Then, anyway, then after the Tsongkhapa's retreat, near that mountain there is at the below the mountain, at the foothill of the mountain, there is a monastery, which, I think, right?, which, the monastery, it has a Maitreya image, which all gone, broke, destroyed, and all that. And Tsongkhapa determined to rebuild that Maitreya image. And all these eight people collected whatever the possession they have. It came less than one, whatever the measurement at that time. It's almost like 5 cents, or something. So eight people's all property together. And then they used that as basis, and donations. And be able to build that Maitreya Buddha again.

[1:29:51.5 Translator 1:30:22.3]

[Rimpoche]

And that show how rich Tsongkhapa is [chuckles] [brief translations interjected] At that, before I just finish that, I'll do one more story. At that moment in Tibet, there are a number of Jamyang Lama Tsongkhapa's critics, particularly when the Tsongkhapa doesn't agree with their view of the wisdom. Then, a lot of them become his critics, right? And there many, among them is Bodong [unclear 1:31:15.7] Chockley Namgyal.??? [I think this may be referring to Bodong Chockley Namgyal with a couple extra middle names or titles thrown in??].

Bodong was very learned, and collected works of the Bodong has over a hundred and twenty volumes. [brief translation] It's not Butön, it's Bodong. Yeah, it is a different. Bodong, Butön, it's I think... Didn't you give a picture, oh you gave Atisha picture, right? Anyway, so Bodong is Southern Tibet, is very, very famous learned. Very strong critic of Tsongkhapa. And then, a beggar was going to begging, memorized this Ten Drel Töpa, and saying. So, the Bodong Rinpoche is in his room upstairs somewhere, and the beggar is saying this. So, when he is listening what this, you know, [Rimpoche mumbles to illustrate what Bodong is hearing]. So the Bodong was sure this is some translation of Nagarjuna's work. Whoever translated, he was sort of thinking, "who translated this, Nagarjuna's words?" And then comes out LU DRUB ZHUNG LUG KUN DÄ TSAL. So, the Nagarjuna's, you know, like the moonlight guy there. Well, it's not Nagarjuna, then yeah, it should be Chandrakirti. And then says, you know, the moon of Chandrakirti rises. So then they said Bodong jumped out from his sitting cushion and came through the steps and running after that beggar, saying, "where did you get this, where did you learn this?" So he said it is written by Tsongkhapa. And Bodong says, you mean say that big nose guy? So, normally called, they named Tsongkhapa "big nose", big nose from Amdo. So that's, "You mean the big-nose from Amdo?" So he said yes. So then he got the guy to repeat, say again everything. Started taking down, and then Bodong Rinpoche packed up and go to Central Tibet to see Tsongkhapa. By the time when he reached to the Central Tibet, Tsongkhapa passed away already.

[1:34:09.1 Translator 1:35:21.6]

[Rimpoche]

Thank you, I am sorry I delayed your coffee for longer.