Archive Result

Soundfile 20110618grnyse_01

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Jewel Heart New York

Topic Songs of Spiritual Experience

Transcriber David Lynch

Date date finished w/transcription

0:0:00 Starts out with chanting.

0:14:15.4 Rimpoche begins

Thank you and welcome everybody. My apologies I am late this morning because somehow my telephone dead didn’t work. Do please forgive me by the time I realized that telephones not working then little bit late thank you. So welcome everybody again so now we will continue where we left last time. The last time happened to be from Ann Arbor I believe so what verse did you say Mark?

Mark: Selections on suffering the lower realms which is verse 13.

Rimpoche: Are you sure because my book mark is indicating that it is on the how to extract the essence of this life leisure endowment which is chapter six did we do that?

Mark: No here.

R: Not here?

M: Not here the last time you were here you left you finished guru devotion

R: That’s probably…

M: Then we were going to start on verse 13

R: OK

0:17:36.0 Rimpoche begins

So somehow I like to somehow between the…I think we definitely finished guru devotional practice. Basically I like to say a little bit on this guru devotional practice because this is something extremely important in our practice. The guru is the most important, because without guru no one gets anywhere. Guru is the most important; some people may say or think so much emphasized to guru and things like that, maybe not the right thing to do. But the question is where earlier Buddhist masters or practitioners all of them have said where there is no guru there is not even a name of a Buddha. The thousand Buddhas of the fortunate eons are coming are brought out of the guru. Also faith is another issue, and we say this is Buddhism and some people may say Buddhism is faithless. That’s not true, that’s not true. In Buddhism faith is extremely important. It is like the mother who gives birth to child without the mother there cannot be a child no matter how proficient the father may be (Rimpoche laughs) so it is like mother not only gives birth to the child but also nurtures the child bring up the child that is what the mother does so does the faith. Although it’s true that Buddhism totally rejects the blind faith. Blind faith is totally not accepted in Buddhism. So Buddha rejected blind faith but Buddha encourages intelligent faith without which very difficult to function, very difficult to gain any spiritual development. Even beginning guru devotion all importance of life, even that level you will not develop unless you have both devotion as well as the faith. So that is very important, so one has to realize that what is rejected is the blind faith and what is accepted is the intelligent faith, we must draw the line in between what to reject and what to accept. Otherwise Buddhism becomes faithless; the individual person the practitioner should not be faithless.

Last weekend or maybe the weekend before that, today is Saturday so there was a Buddhist conference up in the Garrison; I thought I would not be able to go since I was to be in Malaysia, it was postponed so I went there some two hundred and some 211 or 213 or some Buddhist teachers only, teachers only the lot it was wonderful and great, very impressive. They had the p_ _ ??? they called it (Can’t make out the word starting with the letter p at 0:22:54.8) and the next generations together extremely good and wonderful. Also you realize, I realize at least you know a lack of substance I shouldn’t be saying that but the richness of the quality of the individual is very different so when you are looking back and people in Jewel Heart or many of those Dharma centers and they have a quality and sometimes there is a lack of quality but they are doing their best you know whatever they can it is a wonderful thing. Also there is a question about this faith that is confusion and all kinds of things. But also like to emphasize 0:24:03.3 one thing I almost forgot it. I said Guru devotional practice is important but I also wanted to tell you the utmost T H E underlined THE MOST important guru for us is the Buddha, the Buddha Shakyamuni, is the most important guru; supersedes everybody, everybody no matter whoever in the Buddhism. Buddhism what we practice whether it is Theravada, Mahayana or Vajrayana or whatever Yana you may be. The most important guru is the Buddha nothing else. It supersedes everybody so whether it is like in our case Guru Je Tsongkhapa or Guru Padmasambhava or whoever the Sakya’s and the Kagyu’s may have come up with the dagumpas 0:25:18.2 and all of those and everything Buddha supersedes everything and everybody. The most important guru is Buddha and that of Buddha Shakyamuni. Shakyamuni Buddha because we are in the Buddhism that was shown and taught by Buddha Shakyamuni so we are in that Dharma so the most important guru wherever you go is Buddha. If anyone is saying that more than Buddha is so and so then they are not in this Buddhism it is something else whatever it may be. So that is what one has to remember, so when we say most important guru it is the Buddha because it is Buddhism. So we are not referring to any individual guru here in the guru devotional practice maybe the individual person have individual Buddha connected to you. Even individual gurus are who consider important why because they are buddhas. Like take His Holiness the Dalai Lama, why the Dalai Lama is so important is because he is supposed to be Buddha, a Buddha of Avalokiteshvara the Buddha of Compassion, the Compassionate Buddha and that is the reason why. That is the reason why it is so individual connections may be there different guru, but when you refer to guru the most important guru is Buddha. If you want to put the Buddha aside and put somebody else in the middle then you are in the wrong place. So that’s not right, so when you refer to guru devotion, really the most important guru is Buddha. Whether you are Theravada whether you are Mahayana whether you are Pure Land whether you are whatever the tradition you may be Tibetan, Mongolian, Chinese or Japanese the most important Buddha (guru) is Buddha. Guru is Buddha. Maybe you see the different buddhas some buddhas maybe putting their finger in the air, some buddhas maybe have different mudras but it is Buddha and Buddha is the most important guru. That has to be very clear to our mind and the moment that we mention guru the focus should not be shifted to any other individual other than the Buddha. Buddha is THE (Rimpoche places strong emphasis on the word the here) most important guru and the faith is intelligent faith for example why Buddha is great because is free of all faults and has total knowledge total development, that is sort of a very broad way of saying it, but if you look individually you will find no obsession within the Buddha you will find no hatred within the Buddha you will find no jealousy within the Buddha. This is what happens you know if you started looking any the Buddha will become free of that and if you look for any quality you begin to realize Buddha has all of them and then individual buddha representatives may have some problems here and there and when you begin to see these problems that is the problems of the individual person who is representing it is not Buddha’s problem. So you really have to clarify that within in you otherwise everything will become one thing and then you know the fault of ignorant person like me becomes buddha’s fault and then that is not work individual is individual. Individual when it is an individual problem there that is the individual’s problem but Buddhism and the Buddha are problemless and that it is why it is effect 0:30:51 to be of gentle refuge I talk down at the level of the refu…

hey Rocky I saw you a little later but then you not looking at me what brought you here?

Rocky: I am visiting friends that live here.

GR: Oh alright (laughter)

Rocky: Well you brought me here, but I am visiting friends here in New York City.

GR: I am visiting many of these friends…laughter ah OK, so

So that you have to be very clear in guru devotional practice and faith both and if you are confused on that and then it becomes individualized and then individualized it becomes more and more individualized and then you have a problem with it becoming ??? 0:31:52.2 and not only all of these problems that we face that we faced Jim Jones onwards. Everyone of then are because of lack of this clarity, lack of this clarity and so that has to be very clear. That doesn’t mean everybody needs be all hodgepodge everything either. So honestly, the things whatever you follow, you follow probably because if you started getting everything hodgepodge mixed then you would have hodgepodge soup. So it might serve some purposes somewhere but not necessarily you know no one can really live life on soup people have to have sort of sustenance food without which you cannot sustain yourself so that is how I think it works. Now I like to know if you have any questions on guru devotion or practice or any on faith or all these issues? If you have that, I will be happy to give it a little time and so anybody that has any questions?

This is an important practice, if you look in the Foundation of the Perfections; the foundation of all perfections the guru practice, if you look in the Lam rim the first step is guru devotional practice. If you look in your own mind that should not be there at the beginning and you know you should have something else. So if you have any questions either those of you here or those of you who are online, if you are online asking questions please text them to Jo (Jonas) and if he gets a text message he will read it out like David sends text message for Jo when Richie Davidson was talking in Jewel Heart Ann Arbor, and David start sends Jo text message and Jo asking question like it was in your own question (laughter) just joking…So we do have a question sorry.

Q: My question is if I look at the dividing line between intelligent faith and blind faith I would think that intelligent faith is based on reason and logic but when I look over all the Buddha’s teachings something’s like impermanence and suffering you can see them observably but some things like reincarnation and the teachings on karma are more difficult to prove through logic at least for me so and actually people ask me this often if you believe in it how can you prove reincarnation or how can you prove karma and I always say that the things that I can see that the buddha taught like impermanence or suffering everything that is provable that the buddha taught is proven by science so I am assuming that he didn’t lie about these other things but that is not…it is a bit of faith there it is sort of blurry there in terms for me at least it is not a totally intelligent faith if it’s not proven in a scientific way. So my question then looking at things like reincarnation and karma how do we is differentiate the line between intelligent faith and blind faith?

GR: Let me put this way that’s very important question. Let me put this way Buddha did not knowhow, knowings right know how actually, it falls under the category of knowhow like technical knowhow the technicians that’s knowhow knowledge. Buddha divided the knowledges in three different categories 1. That you can understand it directly that is called 0:36:57.1 mune jut which doesn’t really need much reasoning you can see it you can directly see it you can hear it you can feel it all of our five senses can comprehend and understand that is called category of direct knowledge. 2. Now second point indirect knowledge we call it kon du ru indirect knowledge is like impermanent understanding when you are dying, people dying and all this we can see it but death is inevitable somehow sooner or later it will come sooner or later everybody will go. There may be an exception or this yogi lived 200 years, 300 years and that yogi will appear in the mandala form or something this and that and all of those is a different story other than that it is sort of you can understand by reasoning, by thinking a little thinking is needed, a little analyzing needed and these are called indirect, a little bit of reasoning and you will know that is category. So these two the direct knowledge and a little analyzing it’s not so direct but a little analyzing this is now His Holiness the Dalai Lama now calls that Buddhist science that that is categorized as Buddhist science so that is two out of three knowledge’s that is direct knowledge and a little reasoning.

0:39:14.4

Now there is another one very difficult to understand we call it shin do coi do dura 0:39:26.5

shin do coi do dura so we can never understood by analyzing and thinking so for which we may have to rely on for word such as Buddha’s or anyone who proved to be absolutely reliable so we may have to depend on their until we develop our own capacity to see that and that is like reincarnation. The problem with reincarnation is that nobody has come back and said “hey I’m back” it’s not there but we do have a dependent reincarnation system which has been great for many years and many centuries and that is the weakest point of the incarnation and there are so many problems that inject in it and then so the result we see two of these and two of that and the political reasons look at it like you know Panchen Rinpoche, we have two Panchen Lamas Chinese Panchen Lama and the Tibetan Panchen Lama so we have two and unfortunately the Chinese Panchen Lama is the official Panchen Lama now you know. So that’s what happens, right? Then so does the Karmapa we have two Karmapa’s and so we have all of those so that is sort of not “hey I’m back”, these are reincarnated and reincarnations are recognized, accepted and uh not necessarily everything they remembers, not necessarily that everything is what it really is so that is the problem, so that is why this is one of those that is very difficult to understand the reincarnation and life after death same thing. The hell realms and the god realms according to the Tibetan Buddhism they have six realms and the Chinese have ten so all those realms are beyond. Somewhere out of that somehow the ghosts are a little bit better to understand because sometimes they make a noise, sometimes they pop up you know (Rimpoche is laughing) so that is why it is a little bit questionable other than that the hell realm people are not burning right in front of our eyes or frozen and cracking in front of our eyes, nothing. So we don’t have direct knowledge so those sort of things are a reason also to think except karmic reason. Karma sort of falls in between it falls in between because we can think it with a certain level cause/effect, cause/effect, cause/effect our human mind is cap…our ordinary human mind let me say we all have ordinary human mind and then we have extraordinary human mind in both sides spiritually extraordinary human mind capacity because they adapt on the human mind capacity goes so does the science. Scientific people who want to argue that you can see what you can hear will be further extended by the gauges by gauges. So the spiritual level by the spiritual development is the gauge and science people have their gauges so it goes far beyond our ordinary what we can see, what we can hear definitely it goes beyond we knew, this is our now knowledge science has proved that, proved that. It is going beyond, beyond. So now the beyond our ordinary comprehension is. Now becomes direct knowledge to us it was not though some people will say what is this nonsense nothing will happen it’s just they may be doing it they may be acting it, it may be act and nothing else is going to happen. But now you know it is just not act it is happening in both worlds: spiritual world and the scientific world because of those gauges you add up whether it is scientific gauges or spiritual gauges so it brings up so that your comprehensive knowledge has gone beyond the usual thing it’s going bigger and bigger so you cannot comprehend small. So what’s happening is one of those out of the three categories the reasoning to be able to see almost as direct is much easier for us than 50 years ago or 100 years ago because of our intellectual capacity I am talking about the normal western education makes the individual thinking different more comprehensible out of that comes labels and names you know even different languages develop by itself that’s ok it doesn’t matter but what does matter is the actual information and education and it is becoming that way and it’s going on, on both sides at the scientific level it’s going to be discovery and at the spiritual level we are not efficiently functioning not yet efficient enough and it is not the uncharted territory in the spiritual path in the scientific path it becomes uncharted territory just like Ram Das says when he was experimenting along with Timothy Leary and they keep on thinking ah we found this uncharted territory until they see the book of death Tibetan Book of Death and the Tibetan Book of Death some lady came and give to them and when they started reading they found that whatever they think they had recovered from uncharted territory is all mentioned in there.

Spiritual person were not efficient enough, were not getting there it is not uncharted territory after all we do have the message we do have the information and the information unfortunately only lined on the wo?? of ??? Need help here 0:47:38.2 that’s what’s happening. And scientific people they are coming they are moving forward they are marching and they are discovering you know. So that’s what happening. So Buddha divided to we know is three categories there are two through reasoning through direct knowledge through analyzing you can see the third is through spiritual development until we gain that we rely on reliable persons who it worked for even not, now this is another problem if not what happens if not then you become the wrong view you know this heavy thing they call it wrong view they are warning, warning that it is the wrong view. Like for example we say hey there is no future life because if there is a future life I should have known by now because I am 70 years and 80’s and if I don’t know that then there is nothing there and that would be the wrong view, wrong view and just wrong view is not a problem but if the wrong view contradicts true reality and it try to prove the reality which is not there tried to be that what it is then it becomes huge downfall because it is not only harmful to yourself also harmful to others. There are people who are very wise person you know honestly like our late friend Allen Ginsberg who always said “I may not know the future life I have not seen anyone that has come back and talked to me or I have never shook hand of anybody else but I don’t want to deprive myself the opportunity if it is true.” So he doesn’t have that mind that is saying it is not there he said if it is there what should I do? That is very reasonable, very reasonable thinking because you know as a person who was brought up in the scientific world and Jewish (Einstein’s descendant haha just joking maybe all Jews are not scientists) but their sort of thinking is very practical anyway. So doesn’t deny and couldn’t comprehend perfectly but doesn’t deny, gives benefit of doubt. So the benefit of doubt will give you the opportunity to example to be able to check and if it is true, if it is true and then we will be following.

I did give advice to some close friends of mine who were passing away who doesn’t believe in that. I told them see it is Buddha who told us that there is a future life, we do not know but we rely on it. It is also the Buddha who told us that virtuous life will give you a better future and non-virtuous will harm you in your future. And if it is true both are true and if it is not true then that’s that. So looking back on your life (to the person passing away) you have done the best that you could and that is virtuous not negativities. So your future should be good, if there is a future and Buddha says there is future and if that is true what he says virtuous human being good future should also be true so if true there is nothing to be worried about and if there is no future then there is no future, so why worry? So that is how I talked to somebody. These things are when you fall under that category you cannot reason just now through meditative development stage we will be able to see and understand. So every knowledge is not provable by reasoning alone. Faith is something which you can prove by reasoning that’s true whatever it is. That is how we should look, comprehend our knowledge really there are three categories for Buddha when they talk about it karma and rebirth they go to extreme they say everything is possible the sun, moon and the stars can fall on the ground, the deepest land under the ocean can go and dry and become highest land possible and vice versa but Buddha never tell lie then talks about karma, then talks about reincarnation so they have to prove themselves out and given that statement and then follow up. Even during the Buddha’s lifetime Buddha had to sort of prove it many times. One time there was a big fish so it was pulled out of some sea in somewhere India and left it out over the bay on that and everybody goes and watches and makes fun and all that and the Buddha went there and then enter Buddha’s teachers who accused Buddha of being a name seeker, seeking publicity because people go there so he goes there seeking recognition and publicity. So Buddha went to the friend of that fish and asked in the local language are you so in so, some name there and so in so and that fish replied in the local language yes and who is your non-virtuous teacher? Says my mother they then say so what did your mother taught you? He says mother taught me this and this and that then all they respectable spiritual teachers and he was a reasonably good spiritual teacher and they had debate and he was very worried that he was going to lose the debate. So when they said that you are going to lose debate the mother thought for a long time mother had been a little witty so she said well son don’t worry if you get defeated in the substance then you don’t argue with the substance you start calling them names, calling them names like you with the F word pig and you are the F words bitch and all that type of thing and so they did and those spiritual teachers are not going to challenge him calling them names so they walked away so in public he got this recognition he won they run away but they avoid arguing that and the consequences of that supposed to have those eighty head fish it is in the sutra and you people I think it may be in Pabongka’s Liberation too, it is there isn’t it, right? So yeah it is there.

So this sort of thing Buddha does before Buddha talks about before karma, before Buddha taught about reincarnation even the Buddha went to the extent and saying you 500 you go to your home and collect your little grain from your own house and bring it and I recognize who it belongs to they all had the same package, same color, same size and everything and Buddha picked it out each and said this is yours and this is yours and they have secret remark that it’s correct so Buddha has to do all that before he talks about those very indirect subjects of knowledge. So that is why you have to rely on the words, some of them because of our capacity. OK? Any other questions? Yes:…Jonas starts to speak and Rimpoche asks you have a question? Is it yours and laughs as Jonas says no and Rimpoche says I am kidding…

Jonas: It’s from Tony King, on Skype “Hi Rimpoche, this is Tony (Rimpoche says hi Tony) I wonder about people who have good or even profound Guru Devotion towards someone who appears is not that great. I believe that I have heard that the person gets the benefits of perfect Guru Devotion even from a not so great guru/spiritual friend. But how best for us to deal with such people if they are our friends and having sincere discussions with them? 1:00:30.4

Rimpoche: Can you read again the last part of it?

Jonas: I believe that I have heard that the person gets the benefits of perfect Guru Devotion even from a not so great guru/spiritual friend. But how best for us to deal with such people if they are our friends…Rimpoche asks how to what? Jonas deal with such people. Rimpoche who the not so great gurus? Jonas no the people who believe in the not so great gurus how do you give them advice I guess or talk to them?

Rimpoche: Why do you have to bother? (Laughter in crowd) I don’t understand; if someone is believing on somebody and uh you know that somebody is not great uh I don’t think it’s our business honestly not our business. Maybe in the West people be thinking oh this person is misleading and this and that and all that kind of sort of things is very kind of you but I don’t think you should be worrying much, that is how the Jehovah Witness does and that is how many of those groups they try to save you. You are going to hell so better save you and all of those are coming out of that and we think it is compassion and it might be or might not be but there are lots of other ways of doing it. That makes me recall some old friend very, very old friend in Buddhism that’s been years ago now. Then one day with great difficulty he contacted me and saying that one of the great teachers, many of us good old friend and teacher too and that person wants to save that person, the person calling me wanted to save that person, sometimes love, devotion, compassion all combined together miss mash and confused she believes she has to save him so sometimes we do that but I don’t think it becomes compassionate that may be what Trungpa Rinpoche, Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche calls idiotic compassion. It really may become idiotic compassion because if you try to interfere whether you are really going to help that person or you are going to harm that person you don’t know. It is not proper to point out the faults of the individual because it may or may not be true a); b) it will be unnecessarily shaking the faith of that individual if the false allegations are not true may damage that person so badly. So for me if you have some qualities of the person to say emphasize if not just keep your mouth shut and wish him or her the best. I don’t think it is our job to save that person. Some people might think that it is very unkind but it may damage more than give help. I know in the west people like to talk and try to be you know and maybe instead of being helpful it might become harmful so it really calls for good judgment, good judgment and if you do not know what you are doing best thing is to keep your mouth shut it is not your job unless they sincerely ask you if they sincerely ask you then you say whatever you know if they really want it sincere answer and otherwise it is better not to say anything that’s my opinion. You have any other questions?

David?

David: Maybe this is the same as the first question but I am not sure. With respect to one’s own faith, faith feels like certainty (Rimpoche huh?) faith feels so certain so firm how do you know or test your own faith as to whether it is intelligent or blind?

Rimpoche: David in my opinion faith that suddenly pops up is emotionally based faith and that is not intelligent faith you go a ceremony there are drums beating, things waving, incense burning wooo coming awe coming honestly that is emotional based faith which is almost like blind faith it is not true reliable faith. Faith that comes out of reasoning giving yourself time and thinking and that faith is reliable faith. Emotional faith should not be, if we based our faith in emotional feelings and that’s not right. In the culture in the west a lot of people build things on emotional sometimes many will say I feel it is right or I feel it is not right you know they sort of give you the feelings, I feel, I feel, I feel that is emotional basis. We are good at catching the emotional things particularly in Asian culture, particularly in the tradition of Chinese influenced Asian cultures and they do anything you know the dress, the light you know you see these lights that come up behind the teachers seat and looks like lightening all that show thing with electricity and light circling around and also they insist that you not walk with shirt and pants you wear something with a slightly different look and there will be I don’t know dry ice on the stage and incense burning and chanting and all that certainly moves people’s faith/emotions and with that emotions develop some kind of whoa faith that is the unreliable faith as bad as blind faith maybe not exactly but as bad as blind faith. Thinking day after day dealing by yourself the suffering and the sweat that you share with the challenges you face with your thoughts going through with all this and you know the difficulties you face the contradictions that go through with your mind with your knowledge with your common sense and what you wanted and then after drawing a conclusion then that faith becomes intelligent faith you went through with the reasoning not just the simple but we say we sweat through the difficulties we face, contradictions of the reality that you are facing and the requirement and after that finding a solution and the rely on that these are the intelligent faith and suddenly popping up is the emotional faith most of the west is emotional faith in the east it is many of those set stages almost same as dharma and dharma teachings become similar to certain areas especially eastern remote areas whether it is in China or where the Chinese culture overflows into Southeast Asia or wherever that happens. Many great teachers may have to use that to as to draw their emotions and emotional based faith may be a little bit better than not having faith so they might have done that. It has become part of the culture which is not that great but that you shouldn’t be objective either just like that of Tony’s question. So a not so great spiritual teacher and somebody believes it is not our business to point that out it just like that. Now you….

Audience: I was wondering if you could talk about root gurus and ones relationship with root gurus?

Rimpoche: This is interesting question and the root guru I don’t know in the west there seems to be should I say some misunderstanding or different ways of understanding root guru. Many people think whomever you took refuge that is your root guru many people think that. Many centers Dharma centers will claim the people and tell them our teacher is your root guru and they tell you that and that happens. To me we the root guru doesn’t choose us but we choose our root guru like we choose our gurus we choose root guru. Criteria of root guru in Vajarayana and we call it three kind masters the master who has given us three kindness that is from the Vajarayana point of view that is the guru who give you the initiation of any deity guru who taught you the tantra and guru who gives you the transmission. So these are the three kind masters, the master with three kindnesses that is important and then even if you don’t have Vajarayana style you are choosing but the guru who taught you long time, guru who shares his or her experiences, guru who guides you properly for long time. Whoever has been most effective for you that is what matters. It is you who chooses your root guru. Once you have chosen your root guru then you have to do is take the personality slightly away from the individual guru itself. Slightly for us because then you will begin to see that guru is insuperable from that of a Buddha or yiddam that you have then ultimately. When you have a dissolving system or a heart transplanting system then the nature of that guru, the nature of that yiddam, I don’t mean nature of emptiness but the reality of that guru, the reality of that Buddha, of that yiddam and reality or ultimate mind of your own becomes inseparable. So it is really one of the best methods of achieving the true blessing of guru Buddha, Dharma, Bodhisattvas, Dhakas, Dhakinis and Dharmapalas. So that is why it is the root of development that is why it is so important that is it is KA DRIN SUM DHEN TSA WEI LA MA SANG GYAY KÜN GYI NGO WO NYI 1:19:27.0 it is the three kind guru, three kind root guru nature of all buddhas is that said in the Lama Chopa in the generation of field of merit KA DRIN SUM DHEN TSA WEI LA MA SANG GYAY KÜN GYI NGO WO NYI (Lama Chopa verse seven)

Reality very appear this in that order way that is, but that really is root guru I think that when you referring to one individual person, I think it’s a little more than that. That is everywhere the word lama in Tibetan or guru refers to it is not lama who has monk robes or it is not lama with the title of Rinpoche but it is the real true lama of yourself, the true Buddha, the true guru that is what it truly is. Any other questions?

Jonas: I am just back from Mind Life and one juicy question was how do you modernize Buddhism in the west without losing its core values?

Rimpoche: How it is technology make Buddhism into all the technology you can, big lights going here big lights going there (crowd laughter). I don’t know that’s not my job. To a certain extent a little bit maybe it is. You know you don’t really have to avoid traditional culture but the culture baggage like the Buddhism in Tibet id pure and wonderful but it is full of that cultural baggage. You know the temple, burning incense, putting up the throne, all of these are important but they are not necessary. Whether it is in traditional Indian culture I am sure when Buddha was teaching they set up a throne, I am quite sure it was a stage a little bit of mud built up and that’s where Buddha sits and for thousand years Buddha’s disciples sit in that. Then we go into Chinese culture and Tibetan culture and you have those big decorated thrones. Because of emotional faith they made such a thing to try and draw more people and people came. Just for that there is Altar preparation so that is why any money you spend any efforts that you put in it is not wasted, it is justified. It is very funny two incidents I can tell you on incident was it has to be 20-30 years ago you know Geshe Wangyal from New Jersey Buddhist Learning Center and he is very wonderful person he is Mongolian guy he knows lots of things one thing he knows is the value of old brocade old Russian brocade. So when Geshe-la passed away a number of decent pieces of old Russian brocade that he had kept rolled in acid free paper to protect and stored them in his room , Geshe-la’s dicisiples were around and they paid attention, respect and lots of work done great but they didn’t pay much attention to the brocade probably thought that is was a ritual object but a great Geshe a former Abbott at Losling came and he was a very good seamster very good with stitching so they gave him the brocade and he looks at it and says very nice so he cuts it into tiny little pieces and tried to make those banners and things like that but there isn’t enough so he put them in the middle and put Indian brocade around them, so he put them together and made banners and cut them into pieces so when I saw them I said Geshe-la wanted then saved for something special he had kept them they came out of Russia in the 1920’2 or 30’s and he had cut them into pieces and had stitched them together with newly made Indian grass cloth (Rimpoche is laughing very hard) this grass cloth is fake not real silk it is nylon and all of them mixed up together. So he had mixed them all together he could probably have made one little Tanka out of it or something. So these things happen, so why did I bring that up, I don’t know why I bring that up (audience says Westernization and culture) yeah so what happened then is not only one person great in the quality of the Dharma alone cannot modernize and also whoever modernize must have a good Dharma knowledge. 1:28:36.8