Archive Result

66

20120527GRGRHS07

00:00 Protector Prayers

0:08

Questions and Answers:

Audience: What is the difference between gross and subtle impermanence?

Rimpoche: That is a very interesting question. Gross impermanence is the situations that are taking place, let’s say for example today in Lhasa, people self-immolating. That’s gross impermanence. Death and dying and all of those are gross impermanence. Subtle impermanence is very subtle, very tiny, little change. It is almost like a matter of seconds, just snipping your finger once. Within that period we count 364 moments, I think. Somehow the number escaped me. Maybe it is 360. That is not very obvious change, but it is changing. These are examples of subtle impermanence. Even ourselves, our looks, our physical condition, what we used to look like 20 years ago and what we look like today, that difference is gross impermanence, a big change. The difference between what we look like this morning and what we look like this evening is much subtler than that. Whatever the motivation behind the question maybe, might be something other than this. That is probably whether the subtle impermanence is emptiness or what is the difference between subtle impermanence and emptiness. That could have been the motivation behind the question. Presuming that this is the case is that the subtle impermanence is not emptiness. However, that helps to lead the individual to understand the emptiness-wisdom itself.

Because of this minute to minute very quick change it almost shows you there is no solidness in it and all of those. That helps to lead the individual to get onto emptiness.

Audience: In a similar vein, can you talk about the difference between space and emptiness? How do you define space?

Rimpoche: These are two different questions. When you talk about space and emptiness, there is something called space-like emptiness (Tib: nyam sha nam kha ta bu’i ting dzin)

0:15

The definition of space I am thinking about maybe not right scientifically. But what I know of the definition of space is that open-ness where nothing blocks. Free of anything blocking – that is space. If I raise my hand it blocks space. If I take my hand down the blockage is gone. So that’s space for me. Being free of block, that’s space. Whether that is the big, open space, or whether it is a small as a little hole for a hair pore, whatever it is, the definition of space is being free of blockage. Like in space there is no block, the meditative state that is free of obstacles is called space-like meditation. The question was: what is the difference between space and emptiness. I don’t know what to say, honestly. I did mention just now what is space. We talked about emptiness earlier and there you are.

Audience: Is space permanent and is anything else permanent?

Rimpoche: There are lots of other things that are permanent. Space is definitely permanent. Enlightenment is permanent. Samsaric suffering is not permanent. Again, I don’t know whether I am going to make any sense. The glass is impermanent. Now, in that very space there is something else other than the glass. I am not talking about water that may be in the glass. That is the opposite of what is not-glass. If you ask me what that is I will say that it is the glass. But the opposite of what is not-glass is permanent, because that is always there. So it is permanent, but the glass itself is impermanent. If you ask me what is the opposite of not-glass, it is glass. Then you may say, “Is glass permanent then?” But the answer is no, because it is the opposite of not being a glass. It doesn’t matter.

What is the use of this opposite? There is no use. It is not useful and it is not used. That’s why it is permanent. The definition of impermanent [things] is: changing in a matter of seconds. But there is a synonym of impermanent [thing] and that is ngö po and the opposite of that is permanent (Tib: tak pa). The definition of that synonym ngö po [functioning thing] is: usefulness. So it boils down to that impermanent things are useful and permanent things are not useful. But that is not really defining what it is, but it is getting close to it.

If you ask if there are other permanent things, there are plenty of them. I don’t know whether that makes any sense or not. In the words of Water Cronkite: that’s what it is.

0:23 Audience: what does the experience of emptiness feel like and how do you know you had a direct experience? That is very interesting. Let me answer it the other way around. If you don’t know what you have experienced, you have probably not experienced anything. (laughs). You can imagine experiencing. You can make it up. Your mind can make it up and you can try to be that. Sometimes then you may almost feel like you see what you are projecting. You almost sometimes have to look twice and it is like it slipped through your eyes. This is because you are projecting and making this. But that is not experiencing. Your mind is pushing it so strong and even visualizations are not the actual experience. Then you have to look again and it is the same old door or balcony that you are seeing, nothing more. This mind can push that much. But it shows you you are really not seeing and experiencing anything, because you don’t know.

What does the experience of emptiness feel like: here I better share a story:

When Jamgön Lama Tsongkhapa began to experience the emptiness that was supposed to have happened in Chomolung, one of the early Tibetan monasteries. This is before Sera, Ganden and Drepung, the three great monasteries in Tibet, were founded. Chomolung, Sangpu and Khatog were the three great monasteries at the time before the late 1300s and early 1400s. Jamgön Lama Tsongkhapa happened to be one of the monks in Chomolung. And he was experiencing the emptiness while leaning on a pillar. The prayer meeting was over and everybody left. Jamgön Lama Tsongkhapa still stayed there and the pillar was supporting him. But something happened. The pillar bent. Nothing happened to the building structure, but the pillar bent. He was probably leaning against the pillar and was leaning too strongly, so the pillar bent. If we push a pillar it won’t bend.

People strongly meditate and focus on a spoon and the spoon bends. All this we all know. We may treat them as trick or reality, that is a different story. So while focusing on that it happened. Before he focused like that he was continuously holding the collar of his robe. People noticed that. He was making sure the collar was there. Sometimes, when you experience emptiness, it becomes so naked. It looks like you are not having a dress or even a body. Sometimes you yourself is not there. It becomes part of so many. All of those different experiences were made by different people. I don’t know whether there is only one experience to describe. I can only tell you what the earlier lamas say and what their examples are. So I repeat the same thing. Other than that I cannot say whether it disappears or appears or becomes nothing.

0:31

If you want to talk about ghosts I can talk about them. I had a very similar experience as kid. Maybe I will share that with you, but that’s not emptiness – no way. But I am just telling you. During the winter time, back in Tibet, in the 11th month of the Tibetan calendar it is end of December, early January. It is the coldest period and we used to go to a village retreat area. Almost all the studying people from the three great monasteries used to go there and spend a month. We totally focused on the subject of vartika, the studies on logic. In Drepung Loseling, where I was from, we didn’t have logic classes at all. We had 15 years of courses, but no logic class. For that we would go to this very place and study there. The governance of that monastery in that period, no matter if you were from any of the great monasteries, would fall under Ratö. You know in New York you have Ratö Kyongla Rinpoche. He is from Ratö. So everybody would fall under the Ratö administration, whether you were from Drepung, Sera, Ganden or wherever you were from. Then all of us would talk about ghosts. There was particularly one ghost called “donkey headed ghost”. He is supposed to have two long ears. I don’t know whether that is really true or not. There was a geshe who was a debate expert. Somehow he didn’t really develop, though he became very learned, because he had very good karma. So he passed away and became that ghost. So they say that he would come to the debates at night. All the debates were done at night, after 7.30 – 8 o’clock at night.

There was a funny culture. All the monks would stand up and one would clap, then the next would clap, then the next, one after another, all the way round. They said that they were making sure that no one was lost to that ghost. I don’t know what the reason was. I did that clapping for a couple of years there too. After that you would go to the debate area and sit there and debate. Then some people would say that they had seen the ghost, others would say they had not.

0:35

Many of the monks would cover their heads with their robes, because it was cold. Then some would say they saw ears coming out, but others said they didn’t see it. Some people run away and some don’t. But sometimes – and that is a fact – that ghost would take some people. He would take them away. You would find there is a missing person. Then system was this: you go to the Ratö authorities and you tell them that one monk is missing. The Ratö authorities will pick the most senior Rinpoche who practices the protector Setrab pa – who we practice too -. Then you have to go on the roof of the general assembly hall, say a certain Setrab pa prayer and then they give you a little gong. With certain words you have to hit this gong hard, three or four times. This has happened during my life time, although I have never seen it myself. But the person who was taken by the ghost travelled so much, sometimes in the cliffs of the mountains up there and they have no idea how they got up there, but they landed there. So the next morning when the sun comes up he will scream or do whatever and people will see him and line up and try to take him down.

0:38

Or they would find them 15, 20 miles further away, somewhere and if they had brand new shoes they would be torn from walking so much. These things happened. That’s the reality. That was not my personal experience, but that happened during my time.

My personal experience was so funny. There was an afternoon assembly meeting. As we were coming from Sera, Drepung and Ganden we always made jokes on Ratö, because it was a smaller village monastery and much less. Drepung had 8000 monks, Sera had 5 – 6000 and Ganden 3 to 4000. Ratö had probably 2 – to 300 monks and they were controlling the whole thing. People always made jokes. But they were the authority. The joke is that if there was a big distribution of money, they would beat a big drum and they would also serve porridge, which was almost like pasta. All the monks of Sera, Drepung and Ganden would joke, saying that you had to go there, because there was a big distribution of money. Whether you liked it or not you would go because you would get some money.

When they beat that drum on the roof and it would go bang! And they would bang for quite a long time, maybe 20 minutes. Then, when it was almost getting to the end they would beat double, dang dang – dang dang – dang dang. So the monks joked, when they first go dang – that means dang gi dus – enough. Then, when it goes dang dang, dang dang – it means dange mindu – not enough. Then afterwards they would blow a conch shell - phuu And the monks would say that means chu lu – put water in it. That’s the joke.

To collect the money at the offering everybody would get together. And I was in a house next to the big assembly hall. I had to go to the Loseling house to get a teaching from our ex abbot, Gen Pema Gyaltsen. I was late, because I had been teaching a group of monks myself and they were asking questions and didn’t leave. So I was late. I put on my shoes and walked through the assembly. Being incarnate lamas, we had those little privileges like j – walking. We could walk across the cushions where people were sitting. We could do that. Particularly me, being of Nyare Khangtsen, had extra privileges in Ratö. I walked across a sea of monks sitting in a courtyard. Between two houses I walked and there was not a single person, because everybody was down there for the distribution of pasta and a lot of money. I walked through this area, past two, three houses and then there was a short cut and I walked that way. When I took the corner, suddenly I saw a beautiful donkey, so beautiful, more beautiful than a peacock. It had all these different colors, like green, orange, red, so nice. It was not very big, just as big as me if I could have touched it. I must have been 13, 14 years old at that time. I thought, “Wow, what a beautiful donkey.” I was walking right towards it and getting closer. The donkey was looking at me with beautiful eyes. I can never forget. There were also rainbow colors of green, yellow and so on at the neck, and around the eyes too. And the ears were moving. It was so beautiful. I went near and tried to pat that donkey, but when I touched it, it was empty! There was nothing, nothing, no donkey, nothing. What happened? Suddenly I heard the sound of somebody walking and looked back and there was one old man carrying cow dung fuel on the back, walking across. The donkey is gone. That’s not emptiness, but that’s what happened. I went near it and when I tried to touch it, it was gone – not there. So I wanted to go to the teaching and tell Gen Pema Gyaltsen about it. But Gen never let me tell him. I began to tell him, “Hey, I saw that donkey”, but he said, “Oh, doesn’t matter.” So that’s it. So this was a direct experience of a ghost, not of a direct experience of emptiness.

0:46

Audience: You gave the example of how form is empty, like the moon reflected in the water or in a mirror. Could you do the same with how consciousness is empty and emptiness is consciousness, emptiness is not other than consciousness, etc.?

Rimpoche: Sure, it does say that; the text itself says that. Consciousness doesn’t have any physical shape, so we cannot give a similar example as for form. That’s the problem. Thank you.

Audience: Earlier today someone asked you what the source of emptiness was and you answered: you are. But isn’t emptiness the nature of the universe and dependently arisen and therefore has no source? And the mind is the source of understanding emptiness, but not emptiness itself – although empty in nature?

Rimpoche: Mind is emptiness, no doubt. The nature of the mind is also emptiness. When you think of emptiness as permanent, yes, there is no source, you are right. However, the individual understanding and perception of emptiness has a source, has cause and result, everything. The emptiness of self is coming out of self. The emptiness of mind is coming out of mind. So it is. Maybe that’s enough.

Audience: When you say that things do not arise, how does that tally with cause and effect?

Rimpoche: Don’t forget we are talking about the mind which is perceiving totally in emptiness. In that presence, at that focusing thing, there is no cause, no result, no eye, no ear, no nose, etc. But otherwise there is cause, there is growth, there is all this in general. Very specifically, when totally engaged in emptiness, there is not. We have talked about the Third Path, the path of seeing, which is directly focused only on emptiness. At that time there is no duality. The moment you entertain notions of rise and increase and decrease, growing, not growing, staying or moving, etc, that is a dual perception. Non-duality means there is nothing there. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t grow. It does grow.

0:51

Audience: To revisit the playground of politics, can you explain the difference between actual and projected consequences?

Rimpoche: I don’t know what to say. The actual consequences is what we experience through wrong policies which cause a lot of problems. For example, the wars. They cost so much money, every week. Because of those there is so much killing, losing people’s lives, losing money. How many people get wounded and lose their legs, arms, eyes, nose, ears – so much. The human cost is tremendous. The life expense is tremendous. And there are money expenses, which are tremendous. These are real consequences. Projected consequences is what we are projecting, like thinking, “If the Republicans get in we will lose this. If we get a Democrat, we will lose this.” People talk about it, write papers and argue. All these are projected. I think, we don’t exactly know, until it happens. I think even those who are managing don’t know. After all is done, when the total zero, zero comes, then they really, “Whow, that’s gone.” Right? That’s the difference between projected and actual consequences. Those who want war may project the loss a little bit. They will say, “Not so many people are going to be hurt, not so many lives will be lost. We are going to fight the electronic war.” Remember, during those wars in Iraq, on television it looks like video games. The bombs are hitting, but it looks like a video game. It doesn’t bring the feeling across. Maybe the politicians and beaureaucrats play tricks, but whatever it is they project the loss of life as much less, because they want war. Those who don’t want war project the loss of life as very high, much beyond, because they want to prevent war. That’s how the human mind plays with all of us. Did I answer the question or did I talk something else? Maybe I am drunk.

0:55

I think the First Dalai Lama said,

De shar po chok tso ne pa la

Le nu pu tong war dön re chong

The ghost is a the eastern gate

But you try to do your exorcism at the western gate.

That has no value. So I don’t want to do that.

Audience: After all negativities and obscurations are all eliminated, what is left what is left? Is that an enlightened mind?

Rimpoche: Pure, absolutely pure, free of obstructions, which is enlightened mind. What else? Thank you. I guess that’s it, for tonight.

0:56 – brief announcements

0:58 Rimpoche: Well, there may be some people leaving early tomorrow, but I will do my dedications tomorrow. I guess that’s it. Thank you. Let’s do some migtsema

0:59 chanting of migtsemas – 0:60- thank you - end