Archive Result

;;åSoundfile 1988GROMCOMTalk09A

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Ann Arbor

Topic Meditations on the Tibetan Path of Love

Transcriber Jill Neuwirth

Date 1/17/2023

… and get that box. You know that box? Box, yeah, the prayer flag and all this. So even if you could get that, it’d be great, thank you. So I do have the order form here, too. So, that’s it, I mean, so that is the om mani peme hum but it developed and that tune, okay? So tune doesn’t matter at all. And as close as possible sound, but you can’t go on and say somebody said “ka” and you cannot say “oo” or something, right? But as close as possible, there it should go. Okay, any other questions regarding this? And most of people have a lot of, how do I continue this? Okay. Again, I’ll repeat. First, motivation. Reason, because that will sort of, make things work for this enlightenment. So generating the equanimity, and love and compassion to all. And then Buddha mind. And then going, taking refuge. You don’t have to say the number what this tape says. You can say three times. Namo Buddha, namo dharma, namo sangha. Three times. Do. Or, if you want to say thousand times, great.

[0:01:48.3] And then this seven limbed prayer, followed by mantra. And during the mantra, meditate. After mantra, if you want to meditate, fine. If you have time. Okay. Then one thing, as I told you, do a very slowly, do not try to jump up, say ha, for a few days, ah, great, wa wa wa wa wa. And after some time you forget about it, oh, it doesn’t work for me and maybe it is not the right thing to do, or maybe I feel doesn’t belong, or whatever. You know, if you pick up, you pick up, and go slowly. And then you will be steady. And then, you go through it. As I told you, beginning people will jump in, and after some time, they just get burned out. And that is an obstacle. That’s obstacle. One trick also I have to tell you, when you do mantra or meditation, of course if you have time, if you don’t have time, then it’s different. If you have time, the question rises, when do I stop? This is very important point. You have to stop at the time when you are enjoying the most. Yes. I know a lot of people are raising their eyebrows, but yes. At the time when you’re enjoying the most, before you get tired and fed up you have to stop before that. The simple reason, it is mental trick. The mind will be willing and happy and looking forward to do it again. If you drive yourself too hard, till you get absolutely tired, and then you have hesitation, and sometime you have even forced yourself, and that’s not good. So the time to stop is at the time when you’re enjoying the most.

[0:04:05.9] It’s clear to everybody, time to stop is at the time when you enjoy the most, okay? Okay, that’s about it now. So any more thing that you like to discuss and anything left out? Joana (?) do I leave out anything? Audience: (Inaudible) [0:04:29.7] Rimpoche: Yes? Audience: I wanted to ask if (Inaudible) [0:04:57.0] Rimpoche: Well, I can’t answer that because I don’t know anything much about Zen at all. Yeah, really. And but what I do understand of Zen, I don’t think there is much difference. I don’t think there is much difference. And as a Buddhist, taking refuge to Buddha, dharma, and sangha, I don’t think there should not be any difference at all that is the, where you draw the line of Buddhist or non-Buddhist is the take refuge to Buddhadharma or not. That’s the thing drawing the line. That’s one of the reason the first practice what you do is taking refuge. So all the time you’ve been saying namo Buddha, namo dharma, is that’s the reason. And the techniques will be different here, there, here, there, here, there a little bit. That is not so important either.

[0:05:54.5] But what is important is where you’re aiming. What is your aim of the spiritual development, okay? When you say spiritual, okay, that is something else. When you say specifically, I wanted to develop this, this, that type of spiritual development, I want it. Say I want to be a buddha, or I want to be arhat. I want to be able to just sit down, meditate as much as I want to. So level where you are aiming, what’s your aim? And once you know your aim, then you sort of gear towards that which method to get to what. I think that is the- and the techniques are always sort of do that way. Like if you look on the Tibetan Buddhism, no matter whatever, whether Sakya, Nyingma, Gelug, red, yellow, green, I don’t know, multicolor, whatever it is, so they’re always geared towards obtaining buddhahood. On the way, they may be different. Somebody will say, this mantra is better and somebody will not say better, somebody will emphasize do this mantra more, and somebody will say that mantra more, somebody- these are the technical thing and is not important. Should not considered as important at all. That’s my personal feeling. But that doesn’t mean, again, that doesn’t mean you do half here, half there. That’s not right. Because then you’re not going to get anywhere. Yes? Audience: I wanted to ask you something about reincarnation. And that is, when one reaches enlightenment does that mean that that is your last life, or does that mean that you come back enlightened? Or what is the idea here about reincarnation? Rimpoche: Okay. Well, there is no individual who has not been- there is no beginning of any individual at all, and there is no end of any individual at all. The question rises, whether you- there is end of suffering and pain, misery reincarnation, there is end for that. There is no end of reincarnation, but there is end for the reincarnation with pain problems and misery. In other words, now I might made even more confusion you, way I answered.

[0:08:45.4] In other words, when I work here, try my best develop, and when I see the nature of emptiness, or if I reach at third level of the path, then, I stopped the circulation of delusion, I stopped the circulation of karma forcing me without my control to born here, there, here, there, is gone. That’s ends. But, after that, I come back. Come back to do a work. Or sit somewhere. Even people who are sitting in nirvana, they didn’t end their life. They’re at nirvana stage. It’s like a frozen in the ice, that’s what I think the nirvana is, like frozen in the ice box. Temporarily relaxed, and no functioning. That’s what really ordinary nirvana is. (Audience laughs) But, when you reach at the extraordinary nirvana, you will come back. You are not forced by karma to come back, however, your compassion will tell you go, go, go. I can’t sit idle. So you come back with the your free will, joyfully, happily, not only you come back, but you come back and to help a number of people that you’re supposed to help. That’s why buddhas are always reborn. They will reborn as an ordinary human being just like you and me. If they come as extraordinary, then everybody will run away. Right? So therefore, they will born as just an ordinary human being like you and me, and behave like each one of us, and give you slightly kick here and there, and sort of that’s how you do it. Okay? So, yeah. Yes? Audience: You may have already answered this, but are they aware that they’ve already attained enlightenment? Rimpoche: Well, if you attained enlightenment, you supposed to aware you did attained. Otherwise, what’s different of not attained it? (Laughs) Yes. They’re aware of it. It also depends at the level, what level they are. When you’ve obtained fully enlightenment, awakened position is awakened position, you are aware of everything.

[0:11:52.7] But if you are in the sort of in the category one, or category two, or grade one, or two, you may or may not halfway yes, halfway not, halfway remember, half don’t, or is it a dream or what is it? Did I wake up? Or something like that. And for that, they also need some kind of help also, remind them, you know, getting used to it. Yeah, I mean, bring them to contact, though they’re used to certain things, but if they are not brought, if they did not get contact- I mean people like you are quite keen here and interested. As I told you from the beginning every one of us has karmic connection. That’s why you picked this up, and when you come here, we talk about it, and you begin to awakened your imprint that you had in previous life. So you’re interested. And some people may not have that much awakened situation and they will find it difficult and whatever, you know. This is what goes through spiritual path all the time. So that’s how it works. So, that’s what I say when you’re half awake, half is it a dream or whatever it is, needed help. The help is what we’re going through. So you came in contact with the thing, and you begin to say, hey, yeah, this makes sense, and it may be. I’d like to go through it, let’s see how it is. It is the awakening the previous imprint. Okay, any more? Yes? Audience: (Inaudible) [0:13:55.9] Does it matter if you say things out loud or if you’re in a situation where you have to say it softly? Rimpoche: Thank you. The rule for the mantra is not supposed to say loud. Group like us, when you chant and sing, you should sing very high voice, yes. But when you are alone, you say- the level of the voice should be you hear it, but others won’t hear it. Okay?

[0:14:36.6] As I told you this morning one story, somebody going with mala all the time, and try to listen. And when I go like this, he says, om mani peme hung! So that’s what it is. So they chant, the sound they hear it, but others not hear it. That was the rule. But it’s not that important unless if you have problem, some kind of certain problems, you know? Problems of element, or problems of, you know, some animal attack, or danger or something, you chant mantra loudly. Yes, yes, yes, it helps. As a matter of fact, now when you go back, you have two important mantra to carry. That is one is om mani peme hung- or three. One is mig me tse wei ter chen chen re zig, tri me ken pei wang po jam pel yang, du pu ma lu jam tse sang wai dak, gang chen kai pei tsu gyen Tsong kha pa, lo zang drak pei zhab la sol wa deb. Okay. I said this because you hear it and get the transmission, that’s why. That one. And, om tara tuttare ture soha. So you got three powerful mantra to carry. As solid weapon to hit if you meet a tiger on the road. (Laughs) Okay? Okay, sir? I’m sorry, you’re the next. Audience: Yeah, I was just wondering of you could just say a little more about the stages beyond the first nirvana? Rimpoche: Stage beyond what? Audience: You said like the first stage of nirvana (Inaudible) Rimpoche: Yes. Oops- what happened to the order form? (Laughs, speaks to Virginia) [0:17:09.8] Okay, stage beyond ordinary nirvana, when I say ordinary nirvana and extraordinary nirvana, it’s not necessary one individual should go through the ordinary nirvana first, and then try to reach extraordinary nirvana later, no. It is not a thing. As a matter of fact, mahayana point of view, they will recommend you from the beginning to join in, join with the- aim towards buddhahood rather than aiming to arhat level. You understand what I’m talking about it? Audience: Yeah. I think I- there were two stages- Rimpoche: Three stages. Audience: Well, three beyond, yeah. Three of them. Rimpoche: Yeah. Two ordinary enlightenment level, and one extraordinary enlightenment level. What happened is, well, take it easy sort of thing. Can somebody draw something for me?

[0:18:30.2] There are five paths, okay? Five paths. So, you have to go through the path of accumulation, path of action, path of seeing, path of meditation, and path of no more learning. It’s five paths. It’s five path sort of in a two for- ordinary enlightenment there are five paths, one set here, and another set here. It’s called pratyeka buddha and shravaka (?) [0:19:11.5] buddha, sort of this two different levels a parallel line goes. So each one there has five, there has five. And buddhahood also gives three five paths. Same name. But the meditations and things what you do is different. You understand? So, now what happens is when you get this ordinary enlightenment level, so they like to stay there for a while, enjoy it. Because there is no greater compassion to pushing them in. So they like to enjoy, so they become frozen for a while. And after that, the buddhas and bodhisattvas will see there, oh this fellow is long enough in frozen, let us wake up, and we need help. So they come and wake him up and then he comes out, act. When he comes out act, then what happened is he is not at the level of the Buddha, so he will go from here, when you go in this mahayana level, they go in the third level, seeing path. So actually, the ordinary enlightenment level is almost equal to the third path of the buddha path, bodhisattva path. Did I make you more confused now? Audience: No, that helps. I’m just wondering right now if that is the reason for the bodhisattva vows to keep from getting stuck in the first one? Rimpoche: Both is the reason why bodhisattva vow is you try to not gear towards arhat or ordinary thing, and the gear you from the beginning towards this. So gear you means, put your energies directed toward this direction. Towards choosing the buddhahood as goal rather than choosing the frozen stage of ordinary arhat level. It makes more clear to you? Audience: Yes. Rimpoche: Okay.

[0:21:36.0] Audience: I’m a little confused about what the meaning of main lama and Rimpoche- Rimpoche: Doesn’t matter. Forget it. Lama means, what? There’s spell it with L-L. (Audience laughs) Two L. It’s nice to have at the backyard. Excuse me, yeah? Audience: (Inaudible) [0:22:14.4] and that’s why I’m asking for clarification. When you’re doing the Tibetan path of compassion, and you’re meditating, do you have to relate directly to the buddhas that we learned about, or did you say we can substitute another being and still be just as powerful? Rimpoche: As long as this being is enlightened, fully enlightened, it’s perfectly alright. Does not have to be Shakyamuni Buddha or Amitabha or Avalokitesvara or anything, doesn’t matter. As long as it enlightened being, that is condition. Audience: How do we know if he’s enlightened? Rimpoche: Well, people, those most of enlightened beings are we know, sort of outstanding ones are, no doubt. Well, I don’t think I can take you and me up there, so because we’re not very sure about it. But like a Buddha, and like a any other outstanding ones, sure. Why not? As long as they’re enlightened beings, that’s a condition. If you- why? If it’s not enlightened one, is then you are aiming to- though you think you’re aiming for the enlightenment level you may be aiming something else. And you will only know when you get halfway through. So, that’s the- (Laughs) when you get halfway in the river, and then you get, you’ll know. When you get in water up to here, then you’ll know. Audience: Would Christ be considered enlightened? Rimpoche: Sure, why not?

[0:23:54.4] Audience: Why is Christ considered enlightened? Rimpoche: I consider it’s enlightened being. Ordinary person will never, never, never be able to do to the extent of help and self-giving, no. No way. This itself is a clear sign it is being of enlightened. Audience: Thank you. Rimpoche: You’re welcome. So any more questions? Yes, sir? I hope it’s brief now. (Audience laughs) Audience: No, we’re- Rimpoche: No, not brief? I’d better run away (Laughs) What happened to the tapes are not running around, what’s happening? The mics are not running around. The microphone’s not running around. (Audience says they can hear) Yeah, but the tape may not be hearing. Yes? Audience: The question of reincarnation. We hear about it, and we accept it, and we’re I guess all here for some reason that we relate with reincarnation. Okay, my question is about- (Inaudible) [0:25:17.5] (Mic is turned on) Okay, the question is about reincarnation. Just what really is reincarnation? I know we’re talking about enlightenment, I know we’re talking about living before and all of this, but, how do we prove it? How do we put our hand on something even more concrete that says, yes, reincarnation does exist? We take it for granted, but- Rimpoche: I don’t think we’re taking for granted. Audience: No, I am. Rimpoche: Oh, you are? Audience: I am, but at the same time, we’re talking so freely about it- Rimpoche: Yes. Yes that’s good, I mean you have to talk. From the beginning, I told you this is informal, you should not think it’s formal.

[0:26:11.5] It’s informal. So you should really talk everything free. There is no religious law here apply, you can’t say that. It is against something, no. You can say anything. Yes. You are taking granted, very good. (Laughs) I am not. (Laughs) Audience: I take it for granted and sometimes I feel it is an actual fact, and then other times I find myself questioning. I just find myself questioning it. Rimpoche: Yeah. As I’ve been telling you about the karma, the reincarnation question is the same category as karma. Unfortunately we just now cannot prove like, you know, black and sort of white drawn here. Nor we can say, well, if you mix yellow and red you become orange, you can see it here. We can’t do that. However, when you look at it, it is the human mind question. When you look at it, there’s a lot of incidents, a lot of incidents. It’s very interesting. You look around with people, and what does people pick up at the childhood? Some of the memories they pick up amazing. And where they come from? I’m talking about here. Few years ago, I happened read a newspaper in India, it’s somewhere in Punjab area. Now everybody knows what Punjab is, right? Punjab is, that’s what Americans call it. Indians call it Punjab. Americans say “Pinjab.” In Pinjab area, (Laughs) I read in sort of- a girl was born, a really, a girl was born in place called Washalpol (?) [0:28:16.3] It’s not very far from Dharamsala where His Holiness’ residence is. And ever since she started speaking, she refused to acknowledge her parents as parents. Her father and mother, she said, no, you’re not my father, and you’re not my mother, she kept on saying all the time, all the time. So they have a big problem to convince that child to call the father the father and mother the mother, and keep on saying no. And after some time, a few years, you know, really when she be able to move and speak and all this, and she kept on demanding that she want to go home. And the parents keep on telling, this is your home. She said no, this is not my home. My home village is somewhere else. So finally the parents decided to go with kids wherever they wanted to take And so they took the kid, packed themselves up, and went on the bus. It’s not very far, sort of two village or three village or something next, whatever it is. But they came there, and they land in the middle of the town, and they say is this your village? And she says, yeah, it’s my village. So now let’s go home, so where’s your home?

[0:29:31.9] And she’s pointing finger and some different direction. So they went this small little village, and there’s some kind of downtown market, small market area, they went back of that. And for distance they see a yellow house. So they ask, is this your house? She said, no. Below that. So from there, they have to go up to the yellow house then go down, then they have to cut some kind of cross small bridge. And bus goes up and down on that bridge. So when she came to the bridge, she sat there for a minute, She said, this is where I was killed. I was killed here. Yeah, he said, so and so is driving the truck, the bus, and says, next I saw him coming, and next thing I remember is I’m gone. And then, the parents are sort of overwhelmed and doesn’t know what to do, and so anyway where’s your house? She said, down there. Went down, there’s another little house. The child pointed out to the house. And there’s a senior lady, elderly lady, looking through the window. And they ask, is this your mother? She said no, this is grandmother. And she started calling her by name. And the grandmother surprised, and says who are you? And she said, I am so and so, something the girl would. And she doesn’t understand what’s going on, and then she just sort of went and started hugging her, and saying that where’s my mother? You know, mother by name. And grandmother got a shock, and you know how India is, so the grandmother started crying and shouting, said so and so had come back. And she started screaming and so the whole village comes out. (Laughs) How come that come back? So by that time, parents are not there. And they had a photo there and the child went in and introduced his own parents, this is my mother, that’s my father, this is my sister, this is so and so, that’s so and so. And even the school friends she remembers.

[0:31:52.7] And introduced. Up to that level. And I think four or five years ago, I read in newspaper. And it was carried over the Tibetan papers, you know, local Tibetan circulations. I think I read one of them, and they’re just quoting from the local paper. And not only that, and then by that time, the parents came, and she said where is my bangles? You know the girls wear a lot of bangles in India, the bangles. And mother brought out some kind of bundle and showed the bangles. She went, she said, one bangle is missing. And she started crying, that was so and so your auntie giving you, it was gold, and we had difficulty, and we had to sell it. And she started crying and telling the kids like that. And it’s a long story. And this is one incident. Quite clear, but one incident. There are a lot of them. Every one of us had- I can’t say one of us, most of people at childhood, do have some kind of reflection, previous recollection. They weren’t sure whether it was a dream, or children just saying nonsense, or the recollecting a dream, or whatever it is, do have it. And this is clear, it’s indication there is something. I always say about twenty years ago, if I’m in the United States, and say there is reincarnation. They probably, the scientist community will say, what a rubbish. Today, I don’t think any educated scientist- educated, I mean, not educated. A good scientist, I mean, scientist, really true scientist I don’t think they can say rubbish. At least you can give a benefit of doubt rather than, what was it? What did you say, you accept it, or what did you say? Audience: No, I take it for granted. Rimpoche: Granted. Okay, well, it’s good.

[0:34:24.2] So at least rational mind, can also give at least benefit of doubt. Thank you. Well, yeah- you never asked so. Audience: Well, this is a follow up question to reincarnation. Would it be better if we do take it for granted, would it be better to just say, okay, that’s there, that’s the matrix from which we grow, or do you delve into this, and try to find out something about it in order to learn more about yourself now? Rimpoche: Now, it may be easy to take granted. But the problem is, even you’re taking granted, if someone will totally say, that is a total rubbish, I don’t believe it, you cannot believe it past, this is terrible, blah, blah, blah. Something goes on and you may develop, not you as individual, I said one may develop doubt. Or even say, yeah, he is right, or she is right. Maybe I’ve been fooled. But when you go through it, like we had this incident, and then there’s many other incidents, when you say, when somebody says, ah, it’s total rubbish and this and that. And then you say, well, that’s also not true. That fellow has been too extreme. So when you go through things like this, and you have one or two incident at least, so you cannot be sort of easy to blow it that way out, you know? So, if you have intellectual understanding, and logical understanding, reasoning, it’s perfect, great, better, than taking granted. But if you cannot gain that at all, but then it is better to taking- it’s also no harm to taking granted because it is true. So yeah, that’s my feeling, yes.

[0:36:35.9] Yes? Audience: Well, since we’re on the subject, could you explain to us a little bit of the Tibetan view of the death experience and reincarnation? Rimpoche: I don’t think there is such a thing as Tibetan view of death experience. I’ll object that. (Laughs) I’m just joking. I mean it’s the same death will go, people experience same thing. Whether you’re Tibetan or American, or whatever it is. Okay, wonderful. Yeah. Same thing. Audience: (Inaudible) [0:37:13.2] Rimpoche: Okay, then can you just wait? Okay- what’s your question? This is going to be the last question. What is your question, go ahead. Audience: You don’t want to answer her? Rimpoche: I will. But you go ahead first. Audience: Mine was about the (Inaudible) [0:37:28.8] My question was about the enormous grief I’m feeling for the planet right now and the urgent call to do something if it’s any comfort that Buddhism can bring to this? Rimpoche: I’m equally afraid and concerned. Just two days ago, I was telling Paul, in New York City, that the amount of the usage that we take on this earth is beyond limit. I mean, it’s frightening, sort of any minute it go blow up. I mean really frightened when you really look, it’s frightening. And then the ecological damages that we human beings make on it, I mean it’s beyond limit. Wherever you go, I mean, look at this little Earth, or look at this big Earth, I mean, wherever you go, it’s everywhere you know, the damage is done is so terrible. I mean, it’s really done so much. I do not know. I mean, except cutting it back, and trying to try our best to cut it back, try to save and let the Earth heal itself. And there are a lot of rituals through rituals we can do, and we can pray and that’s a very important question, I mean really, the damage tremendous. Tremendous. See if you look at a river, and you go back, try to trace the river, how far can you reach without having a hundred different boats going around here and there? It’s terrible. Since the ecological question you raised up, I was originally planning to release the balloons tomorrow morning, and Dena (?) [0:40:12.8] wrote me a note saying the ecological problem yesterday. And since she didn’t speak, I said what about like two hundred balloons, what will that make difference? I said in such a forest, you know, this will be dissolved. (Laughs) So she said, well, if you think okay, sort of thing. Then I went down and talked to Julia? Audience: The department head of the office. Joy Leah. Rimpoche: Joy Leah. And she said, would you like to do that? And I said, well, we’re planning to do. She said, there’s an ecological problem, and they said the balloon goes down, and fishes die, and this and that and all this. So she said, I’m not aware of it at all. Said please cancel it.

[0:41:05.8] So, so the balloon business has been- but there’s a twelve balloon there, but most of them been canceled tomorrow too. So, we should really try to save the earth. Because, I mean as far as this life’s concerned we’re based on that. And our future generation will have to base that. So really think- physically, I think let the earth heal itself. If you allow it heal, it will heal. But if you don’t allow, and go to the extent of damaging now, so far what we’ve been doing, it will give up one day. And like when you go and see moon, what’s up there, will be something like that. And that’s that. And if you think it is a process, and you go through, you go through. That’s fine. But that’s what’s going to happen to for sure. So we should really try to save as much as possible. Thank you. I can’t say more than- there are rituals. People who does, they’re doing it. They always do it. In Tibet, the old Buddhist tradition in old Tibet, the Earth saving will do so much. We keep bury lot of treasure vases with ritual to have nutrition on Earth. Tibet, old Tibet, with no chemicals. With no wheels except dharmachakra. Worries about this Earth problem. That’s why they do this Earth rituals, bury the treasured vases to bring a nutrition value to the Earth. And that’s what they do. And here in the west, with a million different wheels, except dharma wheel, (Laughs) there’s all this, you know? So I mean to say, important we should- it has limit. Everything has limit right? And they can’t take it, it collapse one day. Why not? Nothing to be surprised if it collapse. (Laughs) Well, I said it’s last question. Audience: If it collapses, can maybe it collapses enough that it heals it? Rimpoche: Well, it may take another million years to recycle and-