Archive Result

12

Soundfile 198881213GRAAEmptiness

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Ann Arbor

Topic Emptiness

Transcriber Lay Tin Ng Elsie

Date 9 December 2021

Rimpoche: They are saying that they didn’t gather. They are having a, after 12th, 13th, 14th, they didn’t gather, that’s what the letter what you give me says.

Audience: ???

(Transcriber’s note: Audience’s voice not loud enough on sound file, can’t decipher much.)

0:00:26.6

Rimpoche: Oh, they say they are on 12th, 13th and 14th, so they say that now running out. Incidentally, we, I mean like to mention here, because the group in Holland, who studying at, very interesting way, they been studying it. What happened is, what they say is, they listen to the tapes, (Transcriber’s note: Rimpoche talking to someone in the background.) They listen to the tape on Saturdays or something like that. Then the second week, and then they meet and discuss. And then, every week on Tuesday nights, they meditate. They discuss, they listen, and then discuss, do homework and debate for almost. And then draw some conclusions, and then they meditate. That’s what they have been doing. So, I think is very nice. Just inform the, the Holland point of view, got a letter from them today. Today. Today, Ya, that’s it right. So, I mean, anyway, I read today, (Rimpoche laughs.) so that’s what they mentioned then. Since there is tape recording, so we mention here. (Rimpoche laughs.) So, I think that is a good way of doing, and we all appreciate and rejoice.

0:02:12.2

Now, we are talking about wisdom. I like to go once again, why the necessary of the wisdom and what kind of wisdom we are talking. And a lot of people will have idea is spiritual development is some kind of a small little thing. Where you can do one, one single pointed something or another, and then you think that is what it is, all about it. In another word, they give you a, some kind of, get some kind of limited scope, saying like you know, for example say if worshipping, or take a certain kind of ritual exercise or, or certain kind of you know, some kind of limited view, and one little thing, and then that’s all about it, and they will go.

0:03:27.9

And I didn’t believe Buddhism doesn’t do that. Buddhism has a very vast way of doing it. The reason why they have to have a very vast way, it is just, the ultimate spiritual development is considered to be the Buddhahood. The Buddhahood is the ultimate spiritual development. Buddha is known as awakened state of mind or enlightened being state. So, when we talk about enlightened being state means, does not mean knowing one thing. Enlightened one certain particular point is not an enlightened state. Enlightened state of the Buddhahood means known everything. And not only known everything of the present but also the past and the future. Future also, countless years and even the countless eons, whatever going to happen at that time, supposed to be, should know exactly at this moment. So, that is what Buddhahood is all about it. And, and it is very, it is unlimited stage. And so, therefore, in order to reach that level, and you also have a very vast way to develop.

0:05:12.1

So, all this different time and different days and different places, whatever we have been talking, try to practise, try to meditate, or try to do a retreat is also moving towards that direction. And, and different stages ever since we came, we start talking here. Ever since we started sort of putting our talks together and looking towards that direction. We are always talking, taking a different step to reach next step. That is exactly what we have been doing. So, people may think, oh, and that is one stages I know about it. And a lot of people think, you know, very strange way. A lot of people go in one place to listen and then heard something about it, ya, I know about Tibetan Buddhism, I heard on so and so talking on one evening in half an hour.

0:06:21.5

So, I mean, that is the idea, a lot of people get in the, here in the West and particularly in the United States. Because a lot of small little thing, you know, any subject you pick up. Small little thing, they have, that’s all and so they will talk that and they will give you that. And that’s about it. So people take that idea and saying that Tibetan Buddhism also is very much similar to that type of thing, whatever it is. One tiny little thing, and you just do this and heard half an hour and you understand the whole thing.

0:07:02.1

And then you meditate and that become, that is end of it, so that is not right. That’s definitely not the point. This is very, very, vast. Ever since we have been here, about over two years, particularly, the Thursday group, over two years. And whatever we have been talking on this, is every day different thing, adding up going towards, towards the, towards, moving towards Buddhahood.

0:07:32.8

I don’t think we have covered 5% of a simple straightforward road. I don’t think we have covered 5% even. So, that is two years of work. I don’t think we have covered 5, 5% even. I am talking about Thursday group. Incidentally, talking about Thursday group, a lot of people are here in tonight. We said we do retreat on weekend, right, right or wrong? So, looking in January, if we don’t fix now, it becomes difficult. Looking in January, the possibility left is, since the Loseling is not coming on 14th, 15th, and that weekend, 14th, 15th weekend, seem to be possibility. So, if it is okay, I think we should try to fix at that time. Because, unless, you people move, I don’t do anything. So, that is my suggestion. 13th, 14th, 15th, around about that weekend, maybe we start once, since we only do once a month. So, you discuss among yourselves and see if it is convenient and where, and what place and where and how. And, preferably for me, preferably, if people come in Friday evening and somehow then they don’t have to worry it about home at all.

0:09:14.6

Going to home, and worry about it at all, just move in, and then do the whole Thursday, and up to the half day of the Sunday. May be something like it, two or something. And so, that will be people can concentrate and think better, rather than I have to drive here, drive there, and go there and go this, and worry about it, what’s happening in home, kids, and so and forth. So, if you make the pre-arrangement. And since it is going to be once, one weekend in a month, so, if you could do that, may be that is nice. And then somebody has to be responsible to informing the people in Chicago, and Cleveland, they won’t be coming in too. So, they also need at least 2, 3 weeks in advance notice.

0:10:12.2

Otherwise, they may be having problems too. Can’t call them and say, won’t be coming tomorrow. That won’t be fair to them too. Okay.

Now, we talking about business. (Rimpoche laughs.)

So, that’s why there is a lot of varieties. But particularly, among the most important thing is method and wisdom. If you don’t have both, method and wisdom, then it is very hard. But most important thing for beginners are people like us, is the method point of it, but not much of the wisdom point of it. Because the wisdom is a difficult to develop. That does not mean you have to throw it away, you sort of you try to pick it up and try to bite it, whatever the way is possible. And in addition to that, proper understanding of wisdom here, particularly, I am talking about Shunyata. I am talking about very specific wisdom, because one or two new people here tonight. So, they may be thinking wisdom is general wisdom, we are not talking about the general wisdom here, we are talking about very specific wisdom which is not really a, not knowing, the clearly ignorance of not knowing but ignorance of wrong knowing. So, that is very specific wisdom, and if you are familiar with the Buddhist terminology what we are talking about emptiness. What they talk about emptiness.

0:12:04.3

So, even people who had some idea about dharma and Buddhism and spiritual idea, even these people will sometimes tell me, oh emptiness is easy, it is totally empty, so it is easy. People tell that. So, it is, so that is clear sign, there is total misunderstanding. And we try to tell you emptiness is not empty. Emptiness is full. And it is full. So, emptiness is full. And fullness is empty. And, this is a tricky part of it. So, when we mention, I mentioned earlier also, I think may be one or two occasions. When you read Heart Sutra, they say, form is empty, emptiness is form. In emptiness, there is no form, no nose, no eye, no tongue, no, no, no all these. That does not mean, we don’t have form. That does not mean there is no form, that does not mean there is no nose, there is no eye, no tongue, there is everything. But yet, it is empty. So, we did mention this, I hope you remember. And when you look for emptiness, try to develop understanding of emptiness, that is what called wisdom here. And you don’t look for empty. If you look for empty, you are not going to find it.

0:13:58.9

So, you look for something existing, something existing. So, through looking through existence and then finding empty, is a very special technique which many people, which many do not apply that. Particularly earlier Tibetan teachers, earlier, I am talking about like pre 11th century, Tibetan teachers don’t do that. They just look for empty is empty. So, when they started looking for empty, then they can’t find total empty. And yet Buddha says is empty, so they have to accept empty, and so, and then go on get a big trouble. Sometimes, they say, well it is empty, but it is not really empty. But that doesn’t mean anything. If empty is empty, that cannot be neither empty nor not empty.

And then they give you reason saying that it is not empty because it is basis of whole karmic functioning. But it is empty because Buddha didn’t see it. So, another word, they say it does not exist because if it exists, Buddha should have seen it. Talking about self, say self, the I, does not exist because Buddha didn’t see it. So, why Buddha didn’t see it? Because Buddha said there is no eye, no nose, no tongue, no ear. Probably Buddha has not seen it, ear or nose too. That is not true, Buddha did see ear or nose. Buddha did see I. (Rimpoche speaks in Tibetan.)

0:16:19.6

So, they say it does not exist because it is fundamental basis. So, it does exist but it does not exist. So, these are because of the wrong way of reading, wrong way of understanding. So, when I say TsongKhapa revolutionizes. What did he revolutionize? He revolutionizes one of these. He said, even it exists, it exists. If it does not exist, it does not exist. There is neither or no, cannot be. If it is there, it is there. If it is not there, it is not there. There is no question of is there, is not there. That is not right. I mean, if you have a watch, you have a watch. You don’t have a question of not having, does not right. Because it is there.

0:17:08.2

If it is not there, it is not there. You don’t question of having does not rise. I mean, there is nothing in between. So, they think it is does what how, it goes on. And then begin to deeper, deeper, coming down and finally that is one of the reasons when we talk about TsongKhapa’s biography, we did mention. TsongKhapa did not satisfy certain explanation and started to looking for Manjushri. This is the reason why. That is the reason why. So, finally, I mean, now we don’t have much time. But since we are going to talk the meditation the next course, meditation, meditation looking inside. Emptiness is the real Vipassana part of it, that is the real Vipassana. Some people try to translate as Maha Vipassana. I don’t know whether it is Maha Vipassana or not. But it is the real Vipassana, looking inside. And then finding the actual emptiness.

So, that it what we call ??? in Tibetan, in Vipassana. Since, we are going to talk the next course, totally devoting whole from January to middle of April, it is going to, we going to devote whole time, whole time to talk about meditation. Meditation, sitting meditation and it is a problem, what problem are you going to face in sitting meditation. How you overcome those.

0:18:55.4

And what are the signs of development of gaining in depth. And also, then the second step, how you going to look inside. Looking, the in another word, Samantha and Vipassana, both, we try to put it in together, next course, I mean the January to April. So, so, we will have time to come back, but the main point here, is the, then the reason is if you look for empty, you are not going to find empty. So, in order to find empty, you look for existence. How you exist? This is the main point. How you exist? How I exist? So, seeing the empty through the window of existence. Happen to be the real trick. The seeing the existence through the window of empty is also a real key to have a better understanding of fundamental functioning of the karma. So, this is sort of link, seeing through each. So, when you looking for empty wisdom of understand of selflessness and you do not look for less-ness. But you do look for how does self exists. So, when you started looking for self exists and we begin to see, we begin to see inherent existence, right this moment, in our ordinary mind, we neither see the inherent existence, nor we see a dependent originated existence. Am I talking with you or am I talking completely different?

0:21:23.2

I hope I am because we have talked several times. So, our mind, just now, we don’t see anything. We don’t see the object, object, you know, the thing what the object, nor we see the thing what they try to establish. We see nothing at this moment. At this moment, we see simply as it is. Whatever it is. It is there, is not there, is not there, right?

0:21:57.8

That’s what we see. I mean, that’s what we see. We don’t see anything beyond this. You say, if I am here, I am here. If I am not here, I am not here. We don’t see anything beyond that. We don’t see how I am here. We don’t look in it even. We don’t even try to think how I am existed, we don’t. So, the answer comes, probably the parents make me, or whatever, something. Or somebody make me and that’s why I am existed. Or they will say, I exist because my karma. My karma because I am born here, so I am exist. So, this sort of thing, our mind is just not at this level, level. So, we are not really seeing anything. We neither see the, we called it, the deluded mind, what you call it? Tell me. Dualistic. We neither have the dualistic view nor we have a single clear view. We don’t have anything at this moment. Why we don’t have it? Because we never thought about it. We never put a time to properly thinking, proper thinking, I mentioned, you are thinking all the time, right. We are thinking all the time. But we did not think in proper direction. We never thought proper direction. You might have thought how do I exist? How did I came about it?

0:23:48.5

And that’s about it. Then you get this all difference our rational mind and try to bring best ourself possible. So, we not talking about whether we have karmically produced or all this. But we are talking about it. When we talk about inherent existence, what do you hear? What do you understand? Again, our rational mind, when the moment the word we use inherent existence, our mind will definitely go big, and bigger, longer, and somewhere from the past, you bring in something like this, something big thing, bring in from the past. That’s what we get when we think about inherent existence. I don’t think that they talking about that either. You see, you read, and you hear, whatever we talk about emptiness, you say there is no inherent existence. I mean, that’s what people give explanation and we sort of rationally accepted that.

0:25:09.7

And but then, we never, did we really think properly what is inherent existence? Have we ever thought about it? I mean, you ask the question to yourself. Have I ever thought, what is inherent existence? What I will talking about it. I am not talking about the language. Okay. Language will come back some meaning to you. That’s your language. But then, the moment you use the word inherent existence, or you try to think on those lines, even you don’t mean the sound, what do you think? Some kind of hollow from the big, some kind of hollow coming from long distance. Don’t we? What else you get in picture? What do you get in picture in here? You understand Mike? Go ahead.

0:26:03.4

(Transcriber’s note: Audience’s voice not loud enough on sound file, can’t decipher fully.)

Audience: For example, that yourself, you see ??? concept, yourself ??? anything, yourself or anything see the concept, ??? result or anything ??? sort of working together.

0:26:26.7

Rimpoche: Wait a minute. You are influenced either by reading or by, by thought? You just look in the rational mind only. When you say inherent existence, what do you think? Something from a very far, like say previous life or whatever it is, something big thing coming. Something like, you know, something very long trip that come out.

Audience: ???

0:26:57.3

Rimpoche: Ya, something, you know, well, ya, that’s what you think, right? And when they say there is no inherent existence, there is no inherent existence then, you not going to cut the truth out? I mean, when I close my eyes and say try to think, when you say inherent existence, what do you get it, what I get in the picture, is something like when you see those banks or in the hospitals. Sometimes they have sent the message from the big tube, ‘whoof’ thing come out, right? Something from long, from inside somewhere it comes out, you know. That type of thing I get in the picture, when I look, try to look at inherent existence.

0:27:42.7

I mean, that, not inside the house, but somewhere inside the previous life or somewhere, and it comes out, something like that. That’s what I get. I don’t know what you get. I mean, if you are getting that picture, something coming from a long distance, something unshaking thing called I which is coming through. And then when you think when you say there is no inherent existence, when you think that is not existing, I don’t think that is true.

0:28:15.0

And there is existence, it did came through some kind of far away. Something comes out, comes out. And when they say there is no inherent existence, I don’t believe they are saying that. They don’t have that. You have to look one more step, one more step. Yes, that have come from a sort of long distance through some kind of a, through, I mean, you know, our mind is such a funny. When you try to think, how we have come from previous life to here, we cannot picture it. I mean, you cannot picture, we don’t, I don’t know, maybe you can, some people. But we cannot picture it. You don’t get any picture at all. Right? You don’t get a picture. When you try to think that, the hospital’s message or the bank’s message, that type of thing, so you can begin to think, some kind of connection, and then you know, some kind of pipeline, in which you come through. Because our rational mind is used to it for that. Like the water come the pipe, the gas come through the pipe, you know, all sort of things come through the pipe. So, we can think through this sort of tunnel type of thing. And that’s why some people when they say, I die, I was died, but when I reach to the tunnel, I was asked to go back. Or they say I saw the light, and then I have been running towards the light, the deep tunnel, so that is, that is the closest picture we can get of the connection between the long distance and the now. And that’s why we try to get picture of the tunnel in. So, when you have that picture, and then we say if there is no inherent existence, then you begin to think, something coming through the tunnel doesn’t existed.

0:30:23.3

And that’s how I interpreted. Without a projecting any information, just leaving the total blank mind, let the, the rational mind contact, how do you perceive inherent existence. I mean, that’s what I get picture. Particularly, I try this afternoon, try to forget all the information and also the, the experience of thinking, meditating before, try to remove totally out and try to pick up raw mind, and try to project and that’s what I get it. So, I, I sort of hope you people are picking that otherwise I will be talking different. (Rimpoche laughs.)

0:31:20.4

So, it become necessary for me, in order to communicate what you are thinking, I have to remove all my information and all the, whatever it is. I don’t like to say experience, but all I try to remove, totally removed out, and leave a raw, totally raw blank mind and try to project how it is perceiving. Then, I can communicate to you better because this emptiness is such a funny, otherwise I cannot communicate with you. I have a problem of communicating with ordinary, sorry, with the, what you called it, not somebody used my, my word, not so used it to thinking. So, we are getting that, that is not existing. That’s what you are get. Really. I think. You should get that, that is also wrong. They are not talking about that at all again, they are not saying that, nothing is not coming from there. There is something is coming from there. They are not saying, because if something is not coming there, then there should not be previous life and future life and all this. If there is no previous life, there cannot be future life, and then whole thing is, what we are talking about. If there is no previous life and there is no future life, we might as well enjoy the best we can here and the ya, be whatever.

0:33:04.4

Whatever the best way you can enjoy, I mean, you should do. Actually, if there is no past life and future life, then there is no, you lose tremendous amount of morality here. And you have to, you have to behave so many things, just because of past and present and future lives. And not only that, many of them, you know, I was talking, I don’t know whether it was the weekend in Massachusetts or somewhere around here, I think is past weekend. I was talking, a lot of reasons, and a lot of time, we indulge ourself in many unworthy activities, in another word, we do things we should not do, or delusion or non-virtuous karma, all this sort of thing, what we do. One of the reasons, how can we stop doing all this. One of the best reasons is, I found, we found, I found two ways, two ways. One, one, reasoning yourself, and the other one, reasoning others. You know what I am talking about. Did we discussed that weekend, right, ya, ya. That is it. One reasoning, self and the other reasoning others. Self-reason is even more important than reasoning others. If I do this sort of thing, if I behave that way, if I do this. People came to know, it will be so embarrassing, I will be shame, that’s you know.

0:35:12.0

That’s one way to stop doing the wrong thing. Now when you get used to it, and when you, when you understand better, whether people came to know or not, I will be ashamed of myself. And that is the second reason, the most powerful reason to behave, to control, to control delusions. If I lose a temper, and I will be ashamed of myself. Is the simple reason how you protect. And why I ashame of myself? Because I am doing the wrong thing. So, what, if you are doing the wrong thing, so what? So, what, then I create bad karma. So, if you create bad karma, what will happen? I will suffer. Not only me, I make others suffer. This and this and that. So, created trouble, pain, problem not for me, for nearest, dearest, for others, and for this and that. And these are the reasons. So, one of the reasons, why people cut a lot of morality is also accepting the past and present and future lives. Which make the, you have to make behave yourself. I mean, if there is no past or present, future lives, you do whatever you like to do, so what.

0:37:08.3

So what? Really. A lot of abuses like, like child abuses, all this sort of thing, especially child, you know, all these are simply because they are not thinking previous and future life. Simply they are not using self as reasoning to feel, well, it is disgrace of myself, I will be ashamed of myself, just not getting that in mind. And that’s why people, sort of people do, if nobody see something, then they can do whatever they want to. And in reality, we creating a lot of bad karma, but how it is made convenient, is because you are not, you are not discipling yourself, that is the word. You are not disciplining, people are not, some people not discipling themselves, by reasoning oneself. If you reason yourself and you discipline it, and that is a very, very, good way to moving in the spiritual path. Otherwise, if you, if you close the door, I mean, if nobody see thing, you can do whatever you want to, right. So, this is the self- reasoning is important.

0:38:50.3

And self-reasoning works if you think past and present and future lives. If you don’t think past, present and future lives, there is no reason why you have to be self-reasoning, it has to be working. Because, all right, okay, I don’t tell anybody, I keep my mouth shut. Then, then what. And I try to forget about it. I don’t want to think about it. And that’s how it comes out. So, not only, the past, present and future life is exist, but it also helps us to discipline oneself through a, controlling the delusions. So, you cannot lose that, by looking into wisdom if you lose a self, then you lose the past, present and future lives. If you lose this, you lose the most important key in all spiritual development. So, therefore, when you say there is no inherent existence, does not mean, does nothing coming through the channel, tube, the tube channel. There is something coming. But then again, you have to take one more step. Who is that coming through that tube? How is that existed? It is the me here today or the, is that something else? In true reality, yesterday’s me is not today’s me and tomorrow’s me is not going to be tomorrow me. But on the other hand, it is the, sort of general me, yesterday’s me might not have been today me. But it is me.

0:40:43.8

It was me. I am sorry. It was me. And today’s me might not be yesterday’s me or tomorrow me. But it is me. So is tomorrow. So, you have to see it is the same person. Did you get it? It was yesterday’s, yesterday’s person is not today’s person but it is the same person. So is tomorrow. Did you see the picture at all? Is there problem from that picture? I think there is. Many people, some people do not get that picture at all? Some people get the picture there is confusion. What I am trying to get here, is a person, I am, I am, there is no doubt. But there is a doubt. Whether yesterday’s me is me or not. And then, if you begin to think, there is a problem. You don’t think there is no problem. You begin to think, there is problem because yesterday is gone, is past tense, it doesn’t exist anymore. So, it only exists today, good or bad, it is today, right? So, yesterday’s me might not have been me. That’s not right. Yesterday’s me was me. So, whatever I did yesterday, I will responsible today. Because it is me, if not me, why should I be responsible for somebody else’s deed.

0:42:38.9

Am I, am I communicating? I hope so. So, what happened is there is a division yet there is a, a general being. This is exactly for the past life, this is exactly for past, present and future lives. Just like yesterday, today and tomorrow. So, you cannot lose the person coming from previous life, to this life, going to the future life. There is something continue going on, like a general thing between yesterday, and today and tomorrow. There is something common going. Is this clear or not clear? There is something common. Are you with me or not Ruby? You sure? Okay. (Rimpoche laughs.) Sorry. That common thing is important. You cannot lose the common thing. You know, something commonly bound together for these 3 things. That is the continuation of a being and that works for the different lives as well. So, can’t lose that. So, the moment you say there is no inherent existence, so, people bound to misunderstand, oh there is nothing coming from this pipe. So, whatever is today, it is today. And whatever that ??? that means there is nothing coming from the long pipe, there is no inherent existence.

0:44:26.4

And that is not talking about that. When they say there is no inherent existence, what are they talking about it. You have to take one more step beyond that. That continuation if it is coming, and how did that continuation existed, what is existed. What is it? What is it? I mean, people are satisfied by giving answer called soul or consciousness or I or me. That’s why people satisfied. But didn’t look back one more step. What is that soul? How does that been exist? And what is this consciousness? What you called about this consciousness? What is that? How that existed? People don’t look back. You don’t look, because one step, one answer, people made and satisfied. So, when you talk about inherent existence, you have to look one more step in still. What is that? How is that? What is that soul? What does that come from? What is it made of it? It is, it is some kind of a, what it is, it is zig-saw puzzle or what is it, sort of what is that? How does that come from? Where does that come in?

0:46:00.9

How does that continuation is (Transcriber’s note: No sound at this point.)

0:46:12.0

Sound starts

… you see, how does that existed. Then, you have to see it is, it is dependent origination. You don’t. If there is something called soul which is permanent, then the person has to become permanent. And then, then we are all permanent. If we are permanent, we will not be impermanent. If we are not impermanent, we don’t change. Did you get me? We can change because we have room. How do we get the room to change, because we are impermanent? If we are permanent, it is permanent, fixture, fixed once for all, fixed there, you don’t move. Remain there forever. It is not, it is impermanent, there is changing. And how did, how did we become impermanent? What makes us impermanent? What is that, when, when we say we are impermanent, what that telling us, begin that one step. What is that telling us? When we see impermanent, what do we say, why we are impermanent? What answer do we given? Do we simply say, oh it is karma? Again, karma no. Karma is not answer. If karma is answer, we escaping under karma. It is not answer. We have to look still more why we are impermanent? We are impermanent because we are collectively produced. Collectively produced. Our existence is collective and is dependent on certain thing. It is combination, it is combination and it is combination, and when certain thing missing, it won’t work. I don’t know what I am talking about. I think I am talking about ??? it is combination of a lot of variety of things put together and out of that, if one thing is missing, we cannot exist. That’s why we are impermanent. That’s why we are fragile. That’s why we are subject to change. These are all reasons.

0:49:27.6

We are very fragile. That is simple reason. If you are permanent, you cannot be fragile. You are permanent fixture like a concrete building. Concrete building, plaster. (Rimpoche laughs.) But that is what we think is permanent, at least. That is also impermanent because there a lot of things are involved, cement, whatever it is. A lot of things are involved, that’s why it is impermanent. Permanent means, one material, one solid, nothing is dependent, nothing is shakable, nothing changeable, it is there, it is there, right? And the moment it is collective, collective, it is not permanent. Moment it is dependent, it is not permanent. That is not true. That is wrong statement I am making. All dependents are not necessary impermanent.

0:50:45.8

Right? I am making a wrong statement. All the dependents, because permanent are, okay, forget it. This is too much. (Rimpoche laughs.) It is not, I don’t think you have to worry about it. I have to worry about that. (Rimpoche laughs.) Okay. So, anyway, looking into the self, looking into self, when we see there is no inherent existence, they are not talking about something, something not coming from the previous life. But they are talking about the, it is fragile, it is collectively produced, it is dependent originated. And so, therefore, when it is dependent originated, there is nothing of what we perceived as inherent existence is not there. But in order to tell that we have to recognize, how do we perceive inherent existence. This is become difficult. This is the most difficult part on this. How our mind perceive inherent existence. How do we perceive? It is very difficult. I did mention the other day, it is even magician, magician, ya, magician, right, is called that the person makes all these different things. If magician produces a snake out of whatever, out of whatever, and we all look at that snake, we are not going to be afraid of that snake. Right? We are not going to be afraid of that snake because we know it is the magician, he is making that snake is not a snake. Did you get it? Why we are not going to be afraid of that snake? Because we know that is not a real snake, it is not going to bite. Even if it is going to bite, they won’t have any poison. As we know very well because it is magician who is making it. You get that picture? Keep that on the side. Now, in the darkness, we see a rope look like a snake, look like a snake. And we see it from a distance, and we say, oh, there is a snake, be careful.

0:54:07.9

So, I tell myself there is a snake. So, then I perceive this as a snake. Then, I am afraid of that snake bite me. I get a fear. Right? So, here I will see snake, the magician’s snake, I will perceive that snake but I am not afraid of that snake. Here, I see a snake, and I project that snake and I am afraid of that snake. Why? Because I know this is not real. You get it? But this one function as a snake. I see a snake, I ask you, do you see a snake, you say, yes, I saw a snake, you acknowledge, you accept, all these. Here, I am afraid, here I am not afraid, because though it is working as a snake, but I know it is not a snake, there is no threat. Here, I am afraid, because, I am sure, I am not sure. I believe when the people who see emptiness, when people gain realization, those people will see every delusion, every attachment, every anger, everything in this manner like the magician’s snake. And we see this manner. This is the difference of looking at it.

0:56:29.3

(Transcriber’s note: The audience’s voice is not loud enough on the sound file, so can’t decipher fully.)

Audience: Your example of magician’s snake, is a little bit ??? here some magicians, you may not know where the snake came from, but they release a real snake, you know, ??? will bite you ??? the idea manifesting something that look and function like a snake, but it was not truly a snake and therefore will not bite you. ??? something I never experience but I can think a lot of examples ??? something that could work a fear like a snake, and but you know that it is not, it look almost, feel almost ??? you know that ???

Rimpoche: Here, the snake, the magician do they really use snake?

Audience: Ya

Rimpoche: Oh, I didn’t know that. (Rimpoche laughs.) Now I begin to be afraid. But, but, and traditional, I mean, the good old magician, supposed to not to use it, they simply using old pebble or any thread or something which make people eyes go just by power of mantra as well as, as material. That’s what the traditionally. But I have no idea now. I am glad you told me, thank you, so I won’t use that anymore. That is old, I mean, it come from old India tradition, not from Tibet, but from India, like 2,000 years ago that what really is. Oh, I didn’t know they really use snake. I always think it is using some pebbles or some thread, they making, pull out of here and out of there.

0:58:33.7

(Transcriber’s note: The audience’s voice not loud enough on the sound file, can’t decipher fully.)

Audience: There is two different kinds of magicians. There is magician really practice his magic. There is magician who ??? have the experience with just making a show, they called ‘sway of hand’, ??? but actually it is all tricks. There is no power involved, anybody could do it, you know.

Rimpoche: Okay. When I am quoting the example, I am talking about the other magician, (Rimpoche laughs.) for using the thing. So, anyway, I mean, you get the idea, what I am trying to come across, is the idea of looking, what does if you see the emptiness. What does that make a difference. So, then you see the delusion will not affect you, when they say delusion is not affect you, the attachment will not affect you, the anger will not affect you. Now, you begin to see the point.

0:59:50.1

Why doesn’t affect you. When that doesn’t affect you, then you begin to reduce the samsaric cause. When the samsaric cause is not there ??? that is how this, what we are talking the wisdom is antidote of ignorance, wrong knowing of ignorance, that’s how we are talking about it. Get some idea about it. Don’t you know. You didn’t get idea of how we get that emptiness. But you just got an idea of how, if you understand, if you understand emptiness, how it effect on the delusion. Did you or did you not get it. This is very difficult subject I won’t blame you. However, we still haven’t talk about, still we haven’t talk about it, what is the really, how we accept, I mean, how do we, we haven’t have the picture how we perceive inherent existence. Still, we don’t have picture. It is very hard. Suppose if we see the rope here with the snake. See rope as a snake is wrong. However, that is not ignorance we are talking about. The fear of, fear, developing fear is also not we are talking about it, of selflessness. But what we are talking about it, is whatever our rational mind will perceive rope as a snake. And another mind will acknowledge that as true, you know what I am talking about. What this mind sees a snake, is a true.

1:02:39.3

The snake is projected, and is mind perceive it, and that’s all one. There is nothing wrong in that. But third mind will come up and acknowledge, this is true. This is true. That is the problem. We don’t even see it. I think, we, this is how we project, we perceive. The word called perceive, right, acknowledging. That is how we perceive inherent existence. I think even, even long before we have to see, I think, we have to see how our mind perceive inherent existence first, rather than that there is no inherent existence to know. You know, before to know there is no inherent existence, it become necessary how our mind perceive. What does inherent existence, how do we perceive that? Which is the mind which is perceiving? I mean, all that. When the mind perceives inherent existence, what do you see, what do you think, what picture do your produce?

1:04:09.4

You know, what I am talking about it? To see that first step is more important, it is become, it is become necessary to see before we say there is no inherent existence. Did you get it what I am talking? I hope so. Okay. I mean, that is, emptiness is a very difficult subject. So, that is good enough. (Rimpoche laughs.) But what happen is, how do we know? Emptiness is right or wrong when we perceive something. This is easy to check. How? If the empty obstructs existence and if existence obstructs empty, then we got it wrong. Then we are perceiving wrong. So, the right emptiness will not obstruct existence-ness. The existence, I mean, it is very easy for me to tell you, if I say, relatively it exists, absolutely it not exist, it doesn’t matter. It is very easy for me to tell you. And it is easy for you to listen. But when you try to sit down and think what does that mean. It is very hard to get the picture. That’s what I try to do the difficult way. If you think empty, and if empty is blocking existence, then that empty is wrong. It is not really true emptiness. And when we see existence-ness, if it blocks the emptiness, perceiving that existence is wrong mind. (Rimpoche speaks in Tibetan.)

1:06:42.5

So, this is so important. Existence should not block empty, empty should not block existence. On the contrary, empty should be able to present existence more clear, and through existence if you see the emptiness more clear. And then, you begin to see the true emptiness I was talking about it. So, it is hard subject we deal with it. So, I think this much, even this much is good enough to shake the samsara little bit. It is true. Because we don’t really think always, this much thinking is our beginning of little bit of step to that right direction. I don’t think I should proceed more than this. Because if I do it, instead of making thing clear, it will make more difficulty and more confusion and totally, you will have no idea for whatsoever.

1:08:12.4

So, for everybody’s interest and then I should stop here. And if there is any discussion to be done, I will be more than happy to do. And the next one session, right, one more session this month and we will discuss sort of general, up to whatever briefly about all these Three Principles, the, what is it, the determination to be free, and bodhicitta, and emptiness altogether. And we will sort of discuss, and all these things we do on next Tuesday. And don’t worry, if you don’t get anything on this emptiness, I am sure you don’t but, don’t worry, because it is empty. (Rimpoche laughs.)

But do remember, if the empty block existence, and if existence block empty, I don’t think you will have picture even that just now. So, when you beginning to get that picture, you realize, you have to realize, that’s all. I believe this is, this is really I mean, not something, you cannot communicate very well and it is something nobody can communicate that well. It has to be, sort of you have to think, meditate, and also bring back, and all sort of things, together it works. This is something which doesn’t work like this. That’s really why, it is difficulty. Okay. Anything else to be discussed? Yes, Mike.

1:10:15.8

(Transcriber’s note: For below questions and answers between Rimpoche and audience (Mike), the audience’s voice is not loud enough on the sound file, can’t decipher much.)

Audience: ???

Rimpoche: What?

Audience: ??? preliminary, visualization ???

Rimpoche: Get into it. Everybody, a lot of people practice Ganden Lhagyema, so why not. How pages you have there.

Audience: ???

Rimpoche: Okay, good.

Audience: ??? This is before you start ???

Rimpoche: Okay.

Audience: Just before you started ???

Rimpoche: This is talking about general every day practice. Okay. Cleaning the room, setting the altar. Then, what?

Audience: ???

Rimpoche: You can, you don’t, does not compulsory on it. OM helps to clear thing, purify thing, that’s why you use, not compulsory or not, not even a part of it.

Audience: ???

Rimpoche: Oh, that’s great. (Rimpoche laughs.)

Audience: We have some contemplating the four immeasurable ???

Rimpoche: Yes. Contemplate the four immeasurable is necessary because as become a part of Mahayana practice. Four immeasurable are necessary. And Bodhi, Buddha’s mind or altruistic mind is necessary. We use this with the Mani, because if you use Mani breaking with the four immeasurable. And that is very easy way and you are saying the Mani mantra, and you meditating love, compassion, and equanimity all of them, so saying mantra and meditating, all work very well. And four immeasurable, if you 25 each and all 100, and do 3 more each, ??? I think that is worthwhile.

Audience: ??? Mani ??? taking refuge ???

Rimpoche: Ya. I think refuge goes before.

Audience: Four immeasurable?

Rimpoche: Yes. No, but you are looking at Ganden Lhagyema text, that’s why. In the text, in the text there is Sangye Chodang – I take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. This is the actual part of the Ganden Lhagyema, not the preliminary. The refuge goes at the preliminary. And Mani, Mani either you can bring it down after Mig-tze-ma or you can bring it before, or you can bring both places.

Audience: Ya, that is my question.

Rimpoche: You can bring both places. Okay. So, if you bring the beginning, four immeasurable is very good. If you bring later, the four immeasurable, four immeasurable may not be suitable, but it’s okay. No harm.

Audience: ???

Rimpoche: Yes, yes, yes.

Audience: So, then ???

Rimpoche: May not be necessary. The Mani, and Tare Ture is not even part of Ganden Lhagyema, at all.

Audience: Okay, we do ???

Rimpoche: Do whatever you want to. Okay, really, doesn’t matter.

Audience: Okay. ???

Rimpoche: That is even not called a guru tree. It’s called refuge tree. The first one. Then you get confused.

Audience: ???

Rimpoche: Doesn’t even exist. There is a Buddha there. (Rimpoche laughs.)

Audience: Okay.

Rimpoche: Okay. No more? Since, we have a small group tonight, it may not be bad. Otherwise, it is not, very relevant either. Ya. Okay. That’s about it. Right? Mike, that’s about it. Okay.

Rimpoche: (Rimpoche recites in Tibetan the short dedication prayer.)

(Sound ended)

1:16:35.4