Archive Result

Soundfile 19891112GRAALR6

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Ann Arbor

Topic Lam Rim - Common with the middle scope - samsara - 2nd Noble Truth

Transcriber Matthew McKinley

Date 9/29/2022

[Audio cuts-in] ... already, beginning of the Ganden Lha Gyema. Still, I remind you once again to generate bodhimind. That is at least to the benefit of all mother sentient beings that I would like to obtain enlightenment, the Buddha stage, as quickly as possible. And for that reason I would like to learn, about this practice, and then practice. The learning also, I would like to learn the stage of development which is relevant to me, to my quick Buddhahood, and that is the common, the beginning, with the preliminary practice, then common with the lower-level, common with the medium-level, and Mahayana practice and ultimately Vajrayana practice. So I would like to learn those practice and practice, and then become a Buddhahood, for that reason I would like to spend time here to listen, to think, to discuss, to work. And with this motivation if you do act anything here, whatever you do, will become Mahayana practice, as I very often mention to you. "Chu debe che dempa mechu...", The dharma what you practice is, whether it is Mahayana or Vajrayana or whatever it is, it is not sufficient. The person has to be Mahayana, the person has to be Vajrayana practitioner. How would that happens? There is no difference practice actually, actually take one example say, take generosity, you want to take give piece of food to an animal, hungry animal outside. And the act of giving is act of giving, whether you are giving- act of giving, whether it is by a Mahayana or by a Vajrayana practitioner or by Theravadan, or whether you are common with the lower-level, medium-level, Mahayana, whatever it is. Act of giving food to animal is one act, but that action whether it becomes Mahayana practice, or Vajrayana practice, or Theravadan practice,

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or Hinayana practice, whatever it is, it depends on the person. The person- what makes the difference is the motivation and that's why the motivation is so important. So from the beginning when you generate it properly with the intention of the Mahayana practice, for benefit of all sentient beings, and that changes the quality, though it is same act. Whether Mr. A gives piece of food to dog, or Mr. B gives piece of food to dog, or Mr. Z gives piece of food to dog is giving piece of food to dog is same. Whether Mr. A treats a patient, or Mr. B treats a patient, or Mr. Z treats a patient, the act of helping is the same thing but quality is different. Whether if Mr. A says "Om Mani Padme Hum", or Z said "Om Mani Padme Hum", or C said "Om Mani Padme Hum", saying "Om Mani Padme Hum" is the same but a quality difference. When I say quality differ, benefit the individual gets is different, the level of the achievement the individual could reach is different. Though you do the same thing, the difference is because of the act, not because of the nature of the act but because of the quality of the act. The quality of the act is made difference because in what category of practice it belongs to, what makes that difference is because of the motivation. Is that clear? Anybody have any problem with that? Anybody? Barry is shaking head, it is no problem. But we used to refer you Barry like this, right? And now you have to refer like that, right? [Rimpoche and audience laugh] Like you both ways, whether this Barry or that Barry. [Rimpoche laughs]

Audience: In the new group, Rimpoche, several people

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said they were there because they wanted Buddhism to help them live a better life. And, because we talked to them about motivation before we did the practice, and I think we tried to explain that at the initial level of motivation, that was the way to start, but that as their understanding deepened that motivations would change as well. Is that right? [Rimpoche: Yes.] I mean a lot of people come with that as their main idea, to start with.

Rimpoche: We introduce the motivation a little bit from the beginning and then it keeps on improving it by itself and by their efforts, if they're putting the right efforts in the right direction, it will keep on improving it. And the quality becomes better, and better, and better. It is not that quantity we have to do too much but it is the quality which really counts. So, is there any problem with that?

Audience: I have a question Rimpoche, when you're saying "Om Mani Padme Hum" should you be thinking- should you be dedicating for the benefit of all sentient beings...

Rimpoche: Well the dedication is different matter all together with motivation.

Audience: But should you be thinking I'm doing [indistinct- some extra] for the benefit of...

Rimpoche: During the every word of "Om Mani Padme Hum" I don't think you can think, anybody can think that. So the beginning if you setup that sort of mind motivation, so that's why it is Mahayana practitioners has to develop some kind of habit, habitual pattern that every morning when you get up, the first thing, the moment you see anything around- the Vajrayana practitioners have different attitude, I'm not touching that with this group here, we not touching that. But Mahayana practitioners, if you are- every morning when you get up you say "Oh it's great that I'm still alive, it's wonderful, great and I will see that my time is not wasted. Particularly my time in general and particularly today I will not waste. I will not waste, I will put all my efforts for the benefit of all beings. Every efforts that I put I will take [sort of you know like saying, oh it's great], I take the refuge to the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. Due to their kindness and through their help, kindness, blessings, whatever, my karma, everything together. I'm still in life, it's so

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great, I will not waste my time in general and particularly today's day. I will work for benefit for sentient beings, every breath I breathe in and out will make benefit for all sentient beings." That sort of motivation you should be made into your, sort of, habitual pattern of getting up in the morning. If you do that then, sort of after some time it becomes habitual, right? Habitual, and habitual is- I've been telling you the other day, the habitual is so funny and in that house, the house across- the 508 Cherry, other side, this is the garage, the house over there. I've been living in that room, the down there so long, and everything- only thing when I go up, I only go in to the bathroom, right, there's no other reason. [Rimpoche laughs] When I moved up, twice I went up and I found myself getting into the bathroom. I'm getting into the bathroom then "What did I come here for", begin to think and then I realize, you know, I moved up there. So I'm getting into the bathroom like that, I found that. Ok, that's habitual. Then I've been sleeping in the lower, that futon type of bed you know, and we had a new bed only about- what is it 2-days ago, 3-days ago? Anyway, only 2-days ago. And I get up in the middle of the night to go to toilet, right? I do, so the first night, you know I use to does the lower bed and then I had the wheel, so [Rimpoche laughs] what happens is I went to the bathroom and thinking the usual thing, you know sort of lower thing, came on that bed, bed moved on the wheel, went close to the window, you know? [Rimpoche and audience laughs] Didn't go out of the window. So that shows, I mean that is telling me how the habitual patterns work individually. So in all the good things and good qualities, these are small little techniques which make all your work better in quality and it becomes better. So these things when you develop as habitual pattern, develop as your habit, then without putting efforts its automatically comes in. So without putting efforts it

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becomes a part- I mean it becomes a part of your life, a part of your thing. When that's missing, you feeling uncomfortable and this is what's happened. So I think that will be nice things to get in as a habit, in the morning you think- I mean beginning you have to put lot of efforts, keep on remind you, keep on- I mean if you associate with your alarm clock and that mind, then when the alarm goes off you may think that, you know. So that way it helps to builds up, but then if you too much associated if alarm doesn't go then you don't think about it. But when you pickup that habit and every morning you do it, the whole day of efforts will go a great activity, better act. Even you give a piece of food to the dog or animal it's totally different because of this Bodhimind influence, its tremendous it has. It is some kind of- it is a real miracle in the spiritual practice. It is real miracle, I'm telling you, because the benefit, action, what you get out of it is totally different. It is real miracle, that mind. So if you have habitually if you get it to it, so everyday whatever you do, somehow it becomes Mahayana act. If you look into the, one minute huh [re: audience having a question], if you look into the Maha- if you look like in the Kedrup Je's "Praise to Tsongkhapa" and it says "Gompa chu che tse je...", says if you breath, in-and-out, even becomes the benefit of all sentient beings, all other your activities are no doubt, it is beyond question. Did you hear what I said? Did I say correctly, or you want to correct my english? Sandy? Are you with me?

Audience, Sandy: Can you say it one more time?

Rimpoche: Ok. [Rimpoche chuckles and sighs] If even your breath is becomes benefit of all sentient beings, all your other activities are no question about it. So you want to put it in right direction?... Or is it ok?

Audience, Sandy: It's understandable just as it is.

Rimpoche: Yeah, it helps lot if you have it in the right way, you know.

Audience, Sandy: You're still looking at me to....

Rimpoche: Oh ok, I won't look at you. I'll look at there.

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[Audience, Sandy, giggles] Ok, so on that's how that happens. I think that happens it becomes possible if you're motivated, the motivation was done properly. Doesn't have to be, you know the practice, it's so funny, it is really funny. In our mind, in our rational mind, when we look at when you call it practice, what does that mean to us? We always look for something you sit down, or some different postures, crossed-leg, or hand mudras, gestures, and-or reading books, saying mantras, meditating, or something which will look as practice. Don't we, do we or we don't? Collin shaking head. Do we or we don't? Carolyn [indistinct- hesty (last name?)].

Audience, Carolyn: I think you're saying that we often want to think of it that way but it doesn't need to be that way.

Rimpoche: Why not?

Audience, Carolyn: Because it can be the very things we do all day long. The very acts we have towards other people can be, if we have that sort of intent and motivation-

Rimpoche: Not only towards other people but towards yourself too. Yes, that's great. So, but normally we will consider practice means certain amount of time that you take it out, out of your life, and put it in sort of ear-marked and called "My Practice". It has to be some- a gathering of people, or getting into a temple, or getting into some kind of atmosphere provided, or even if you're alone it have to be sitting down and doing something. Something of that sort of we get associated, our rational mind associate that, don't we. But to me the practice can be while your eating, while your sleeping, while your driving, while you in your office, while your teaching- not Dharma!- teaching language, culture, art, massage, anything! Or when you're in office treating a patient

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or whatever, whatever you do, and every action whatever you do and every action, that whatever you do, can become a dharma practice. And this is so important point one has to look, otherwise if we have to limit it our practices to only the time that we spend, sit-down and sort of, you know, that type of thing, then we are putting very little amount of time to dharma. If you have 60-years, something like that, probably you put total at most 5-years maximum you put, if you put all the time-wise. Yeah, because if you sleep 8-hours a day. Huh?

Audience: It would be 112, I doubt you can put that much in. One-twelve all the time.

Audience, milieu: So it would be two-hours a day. Two-hours of solid practice a day...

Rimpoche: Ok, 60-years, then how much would that be?

Audience, milieu: Two-and-a-half years...

Rimpoche: Only! Not even 5-years?

Audience, milieu: No, no, 5-years. Five-years is 112 to [indistinct- the day]. Two solid hours a day. Two solid hours without losing the.. Everyday, everyday for 60-years...

Rimpoche: But that means the- that's the normal teaching, the tradition Tibetan teachings tell you. If you live 60-hours [years] and you only put 5-years, that's it. So that's why they tell you... So yeah I know you've been raising hand twice, three-time, I'm trying to hold you down. [Rimpoche and audience laugh] But, but I don't believe that's what it is, I believe what it is is counting every action of yours to become a dharma practice, and that is important. Every step that you walk on, on every moment that you do should become dharma practice and that is very profitable, very easy way, and very good way. And that is one of the best purification, that is one of the best accumulation of merit, that is one of the best way contemplating- cultivating! Okay? Cultivation, I'm getting confused. So

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when you're learning dharma means look for those techniques, and this is something which is sort of- I like to call it dharma tricks. It is a trick which you apply on and it makes things different. That is why they talk about them, "Oh the bodhimind is so great, wonderful, and wonderful", what's so wonderful about it? Because of this. Simple little way of thinking makes lot of difference and that is true to everything, even materially. If you know a little technique, you touch a little bit here and then you know it works, right? If you don't know, if you try to get it, you turn everything the path but nothing works. Talking about it, our top lights are not working Sir, doctor. [Rimpoche chuckles] I know it is you, nobody else touch it. Because he said, "That switch is hot, I change it", ok that's what did it.

Audience, Sir Doctor: Maybe you have to bottom one on, this isn't a proper 3-way switch. [Audience and Rimpoche laugh] Turn it on from the downstairs [talking to other audience member].

Rimpoche: Oh, sorry. Gloria raised three, twice hand.

Audience, Gloria: I'm only talking about feelings I have in myself, I can't assume with anyone else but I know that-

Rimpoche: You're safe.[Rimpoche, Gloria, and audience chuckle]

Audience, Gloria: In the process of trying to develop bodhimind and I start out my day, say, and dedicate every action, every thought, every deed to the benefit of sentient beings-

Rimpoche: Gloria, didn't I tell you. I said dedication is not one which counts.

Audience, Gloria: Or, your motivation is towards the benefit of all sentient beings. You think of that and you put this into your daily thought as soon as you wake up, and this becomes a pattern with you. Yet there are other patterns, say you go to work and you're working throughout your day and something comes up and it takes you by surprise and you get angry.

Rimpoche: So what! So what!

Audience, Gloria: How can that benefit other sentient beings?

Rimpoche: Well doesn't matter, the anger- I did not say the anger to benefit other sentient beings, but I said most of your action that you are doing can be benefit. I mean there are- negatives cannot become positive but neutrals can become positive.[Audience, Gloria: The neutrals can be...] Become positive. Negatives will remain as

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negative, okay? There, so what?

Audience, Gloria: I thought- I misunderstood, I thought you said all of your actions-

Rimpoche: Well I did say that, yes, I did say that, yeah. I did say that, what I meant is the negatives cannot become positive, that's for sure. We have to know that, it's not yet. [Audience, Gloria: Thank you.] Yeah really, thank you, I mean to clarify- I did say that, you know, all your actions. All is the word of majority, not necessarily mean every single one. That's what we say in Tibetan, "Pungje tamche tseme...", but you don't say that in English do you? The word- the translation of "All" in Tibetan will be "Tamche", like "tamche", "tamche"!

Audience: So when you say sentient beings, you mean most sentient beings may I recognize? [Audience and Rimpoche laugh]

Rimpoche: No, "tamche", the word "tamche" is plural, it says, is plural. Not necessarily mean every single included, that's what they say. No what happened is, you know- the Dupa Kulye, the founder of the Dupa Kagyu foundation, the Dupa Kagyu religion, sect, or whatever it is called it, not the foundation. And goes on and say "Oh yeah, yeah, all is plural but not everybody", so he goes to a monastery called "Chedrup" and the next monastery is "Muru" in Lhasa. So I take refuge to all the monks everywhere except Muru and Chedrup monks, that's what he started shouting in the courtyard. [Rimpoche laughs] [Audience: Everybody but them.] Everybody except that, you know one of the lamas who's living there, great teacher, says the word of "tamche" means "all" which is plural word but not necessarily count everybody. So the Dupa Kulye goes there and says "I take refuge to all the monks, except the monks from these two montestaries". [Rimpoche laughs] Anyway... that's joke. [Audience laughs] Ok in English, all means all, right? Nothings left out.

Audience: "Most" means almost all.

Rimpoche: Ok almost, ok I didn't go that. The most of them- So would you, if anybody is writing note or something, or on the tape or something: you should think "all" is "most". [Rimpoche laughs] Allright. So your question... Rachael? Also, I like to say, I don't want to really- Oh yeah, ok, go ahead. Go ahead, go ahead.

Audience, Rachael: Ok [Rachael giggles] I was just wondering how, how if you're not doing something that's-

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that's actively helpful or, you know, something that is obviously can be positive.

Rimpoche: For example, for example I can see the Green Peace is actively helpful.

Audience, Rachael: Right, right. So if you do something like that then you know, ok, that you're doing some kind of practice, and thats something you can dedicate and go on. But if you're something- like you said that's neutral, like I'm an editor, so if I'm just going through my copy and I'm saying "No this is wrong, this is right; Oh put this there and do this here". How can be of benefit, how can I make that practice?

Rimpoche: If you have the motivation of helping attitude towards beings. Servicing attitude, helping attitude, everything, whatever you do it become good. I mean but provided if it is not influenced by anger, attachment, and hatred. With the general service attitude it will become helpful work.

Audience, Rachael: Even something that, you know-

Rimpoche: Even if it has nothing to do, even if it has nothing to do with the Dharma. It's something to do with ecological, something to do with- whatever it is, you know.

Audience, Rachael: What if it is something that doesn't necessarily benefit anybody?

Rimpoche: Doesn't matter, all your motivation is helping motivation. At least it is somebody to get something to read. [Audience, Rachael: Yeah.] Yeah, it is benefiting somebody. But you can be- ok, no, ok. Keep my mouth shut, that's it. That should not influence you as editor, right? Allright, that's good I'm helping, I'm benefiting and this-and-that, ok this-and-this, but this information is not going to be very helpful so therefore I should cut it out. But you have no right to do that, right?

Audience, Rachael: No, that would never occur to me, but it does occur to me to change to a career where I'd be more helpful to more people because it would be more inline with my practice.

Rimpoche: Well... look, the career is career. Whatever you have to do, you have to do, okay? So the only way you find is within that career how you can be helpful that is what you should always look for. I think changing career is not necessarily greatest thing to do. If you have karmic connection, karmic relation, your karmic thing, it will be there and when the time comes to change it will appear. I don't think you have to go out, say "Look I'm going to be more helping career and therefore I should go, I should not be editing book or editing paper, or whatever it is, behind the desk rather I should be banner-carrying in the street".

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So, I don't think that will necessarily be great. Yep. So this is from the motivation went in and we did not get into our thing, really. So with that motivation and particularly, you know, like a practice- and that's what I meant it. And if you have such a motivation then you have few committed mantras to say here and there and then you have this Ganden Lha Gyema which is really becomes backbone of your practice. Then you add up this thing on that, what you call it this? Great quality or what? Foundation of good qualities, whatever it is. The name is very strange to me, it's called "Nyun den shedrup je ba", "she" is base and "nyun den" is knowledge, or whatever, quality, and that's good. So I wonder if Brenda or somebody can put them in the computer today. Or even cut them and paste them in or you put them- cut them, paste them is easier for you then do that. If it is not easier type them in the computer, anyway I think you may have to xerox because we have lot of people here. Cause you know computer may not be able to print that much. My printer is bad, it goes on "zzzrr-zzzrr-zzzzrr", may go home and-

Audience: Can we xerox it from the book without typing?

Rimpoche: Yeah, you can cut and paste I mean.

Audience: [indistinct- I think refuge and put a copy...]

Rimpoche: No, no, but I want to put them together. So instead of saying that "from here you go there, from here you go there".

Audience: What would be the order of doing that, would it be Ganden Lha Gyema first and then that...?

Rimpoche: Yeah Ganden Lha Gyema first and before dissolving these [indistinct- Bantsama]-lama Rimpoche, before that you put that.

Audience: Right after the mantras, in other words.

Rimpoche: Right after the mantras- no! After these two-verses, yeah, that's where you put it. And also I would like you to, you people are develop a habitual pattern here. That is those of you, it looks to me, most of you are saying the Ganden Lha Gyeme but you are also becoming like the Tibetans. The Tibetans have bad habit they say "Gandenlhagyematsu...[starts saying GLG very fast]..blah-blah-blah-blah". Sooo, the word goes, the mind is maybe shopping somewhere around here in Ann Arbor. [Audience laughs] So therefore

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I don't want to develop that pattern with you. So how to break that pattern is- like for example you say one verse. What is the translation? The white glove something...

Audience: "From the heart of the protector, from the heart of the deities, and the land of joy"...

Rimpoche: And then what, next?

Audience: "Comes the cloud of assembly resembling a fresh white curd"...

Rimpoche: No, actually, from the what? From the what?

Audience: "From the heart of the protector, hundreds of deities of the land of joy"...

Rimpoche: Yeah, "From the heart of the protector of the hundred-deities of the land of joy". I want you to stop there and visualize and think, the land of joy and protector of the hundred of deities which is Maitreya Buddha, think about that. Then goes, comes, "The cloud resemble a massive fresh white curd, homage Lozang Drakpa together with your sons", then I want you to think about it. "I request you to come here and be on tip", after that you say and stop and think. So, in other words, same word and meditation, thinking, visualization, meditation, I want you to put them together, okay? Please, this is important. Otherwise you will become like another Tibetan, "blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah, BAH-LHA" and then after some time the leader say "Mikme tsewe der chen...", you don't realize where it has gone. It is so short, the seven-limbs will go like this [*Rimpoche snaps-finger*]. If you're not paying attention from the beginning, some people may be paying attention completely. So then it is meditation and saying word, becomes together and it has some meaning behind it.

Audience: The problem we have had is we do the practice the Chicago in English because we can do the visualizations better with the English words. [Rimpoche: That's right] We do it here in Tibetan, I don't know what I'm saying, so I can't get the pictures.

Rimpoche: Okay, so you do in English, I don't care. You do in Tibetan, I don't care. The language for me is easier in Tibetan because it is my habitual pattern and mother tongue. Makes the habitual pattern easier, each word means something to me, I can think about. If I want to, if I don't want to I say without thinking

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anything I write another letter and say "Gandenlhagyme...[Rimpoche recites prayer very fast]", I'm writing another letter, composing something else and "Gandenlhagyme...", and go. I do that very often too. You find lot of Tibetans going down there and early in the morning, in the kitchen cooking and sweeping and cleaning, and "blah-blah-blah-blah [in rhythmic verse]", saying their prayers and [indistinct- teaching], sweeping, cooking. I mean maybe some great people, I don't know, hard to say. But many of them don't think, I know. So it is- there will be no difference a parrot who is saying that and in that way. And what I do want is I don't want you people do so many things, don't want that, because you don't have time, you can't do it. There is million things in the Buddhism and the Tibetan Buddhism, there're million different deities, there is million different mantra. You can't do everything, nobody can, nobody does! I mean we count, that's the trained incarnate lamas, we said how many initiations we have different, we can count and then you know some reaching like, say, couple of thirty-fourty thousand. Will say "Oh yeah, he has a lot, thirty-fourty thousand" and we have somebody who has two-three thousand and we say "Oh, nothing", [Audience laughs] and that with count. But do we practice? No, nobody does. Nobody does, why do they do it? Because somehow remain in lineage, it becomes responsible of incarnate lamas. Just run the lineage because somebody may be specialized in future generations somewhere, doesn't cut-off their opportunity just because lineage doesn't carry. And that's the only reason. You may be doing two, or three, or four, or five at most practice. The rest of them are just like that. So that's what it is. So what I want you people to do is do a simple practice, but it is a worthwhile practice. Worthwhile. How does it become worthwhile? Say the word, meditate, think, and then when you are ready move to the next. If your group gathering together, I mean one can't hold other one, sort of, you know you have to move. Otherwise, allright, give it like you know two-three minutes to think enough and then go, group together. But individually when you finish your thinking move to the next. So this Ganden Lha Gyema may take 5-minutes to somebody or it may take 5-hours to somebody, that is totally difference to individual person. But whatever it does should do a practical thing. But then you don't want migtsema, like if you are saying mantra commitment, when you come to the

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"migmetsewa derchen tse", no I don't want you to stop "migmetsewe chenrezig" and then think Avalokiteshvara and stay for awhile, "Oh jambaya", think Manjushri and stay for awhile, "Dupung jomdze.." think Vajrapani and stay for awhile. Then it is going to take hell of time, so you're not going to do that. Neither are you going to go continuously because there is a number you count, which is time pressure there, so therefore go on doing it. You may be thinking one time, you may be thinking Manjushri, although you may be thinking Avalokieteshvara, second, third time you may be thinking- whatever you may be doing it but you keep on repeating it, go ahead and do it but don't hold it. But others, the other words, each one of them, hopefully, you have to say once a day, right? And that's it, so that will be very useful. I began to notice that we becoming like Tibetan, really going it you know. And then faster and faster and faster, some people go so fast and you don't even catch it. So don't want that happen, okay? Thank you. What shall we do? Twelve-three.

Audience: Pardon?

Rimpoche: It is twelve.

Audience: It's twelve now? It's going to take an hour at least Rimpoche to put it in.

Rimpoche: Twelve-thirty! Would you like to do that? Okay. Do you have to go out and do anything or no? Don't listen to Steve, okay.

Audience: The smoke from the incense is making some people's eyes water.

Rimpoche: Is it? Anybody have eye's in the wat- water in the eyes? Anybody? Ok, you got one spot.

Audience: There are more I can see them but [indistinct- not see them].

Rimpoche: Ok, I'm kidding you know. You're all are kidding.

Audience: So it's best Rimpoche to get a very clear picture when you do visualization at the same time. Like if you just have a general picture it's best to pause and get it very clear.

Rimpoche: No, the seven-limb, you have each one of them have- is all meditation, right? So do that every verse and then it really become worthwhile doing it. Okay? Good. Now, now if we go- what did we do last time, Brenda?

Audience, Brenda: I think we ended with karma, we were talking about the ten dharma viritous [indistinct- happies].

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Audience: We just started the common with the medium-level and you started to talk about the four noble truths. And you were talking about suffering and the causes of suffering. [Rimpoche: Mmhmm.] That was the very end.

Audience: I think you were going to start with delusion causes next.

Audience: That's right.

Rimpoche: Suffering is- I thought it was very good to use the word of sorrow, sa- what did you say Matt?

Audience, Matt: You said sorrow.

Rimpoche: Sorrow. Sorrow is the really good word, I think really true "dukkha" is that one. What do think Brenda?

Audience, Brenda: Dukkha as sorrow? [Rimpoche: Uh-huh.] Something [indistinct] new to misunderstandings.

Rimpoche: Tremendous.

Audience, Brenda: That came up also from the new people, they said Buddhism talks too much about suffering. Such a gloomy religion. And we tried to explain, well this was just in private conversation, that what you think of when you think of suffering is not exactly what this is about.

Rimpoche: Yeah. It is very interesting, some of the words, you know, some of the things what Alex Berzin say, it's very interesting. Alex Berzin uses, what, problem, and that's too light. [Audience, Brenda: That's too light.] Too light. But then I told him why don't you use suffering and then you can say "It's not really what you think of that suffering". You know what he told me? Rimpoche, you may say- call suffering and then you say "I don't mean the suffering what you think", you may say hundred-times under that. He said word suffering is such a powerful word they will register so strong in their head and you may say "I don't mean that exactly" maybe hundred-times you repeat it after that, it will not register. I think he is right. The "problem" is too light, for sure, that is really too light. The sorrow might have been good, good. The other day I was in the [indistinct- Shaman Dan] bookshop and I found Krishnamurti's two or three tapes there, so I listened to that. Krishnamurti's using "sorrow", I mean he talks like Buddhist, this fellow has very good idea of Buddhism. Total I know him, he think that way. He try to talk to the emptiness, somehow I mean he can't get real emptiness in but somehow he really bring through the emptiness, he has lot of Buddhist thoughts in his. So he talks "sorrow". I thought that might be good word.

Audience, Brenda: What it doesn't work is

0:45:00.0

for what we call the "suffering of suffering", because that's not sorrow.

Rimpoche: What is that?

Audience: When you really are suffering, when you're in pain, or with death, or old-age, or illness, or-

Rimpoche: I don't know...

Audience: Sorrow is like a particular kind of heavy sadness. That's a particular type of sadness, its not general enough. I think its too specific.

Rimpoche: Is it?

Audience: Yeah but I think most people connect sorrow, maybe something really sad, as opposed to loss someone dying or house burn down or...

Rimpoche: That is suffering!

Audience, milieu: Yeah that is. Right it is suffering. Sorrow is a reaction to suffering.

Rimpoche: What?

Audience: Sorrow is more the reaction of suffering.

Audience: Not the direct experience, it is the reaction to it.

Rimpoche: Well the direct reaction of "suffering of suffering is pain", and the others are sorrow. No?

Audience: It doesn't speak to all our sorrows. There really isn't one word that explains so well.

Audience, milieu: Torture.

Rimpoche: Come on... [Audience chuckles at the suggestion]

Audience: The broad base of dukkha comes from the connotation of how a joint, like the way a chariot wheel being out of joint from the hub, and so things being out of balance or out of joint.

Audience, milieu: Imperfect. Unsatisfactory. Uncomfortable. Stressful...

Rimpoche: That becomes even lighter than problem.

Audience: I think suffering really hits it right on the head though. Once you get used to it...

Rimpoche: We don't want to hit too hard on the head. You know Gloria, if you hit hard on the head you get dizzy.

Audience: Rimpoche, I think the objection when people say "Oh those Buddhists they just talk about suffering"-

Rimpoche: I'm not worried about that, I don't worry about that at all. But when I'm worried about it and get it enough, a perfect understanding of what really when the Buddha's dukkha means. To get a proper understanding, this is what I'm more worried. I'm not worried about this few people who say "Oh Buddhism is all suffering and all this".

Audience: No, but the point I was trying to make is that the reason there is misunderstanding is that they make an assumption that their definition of suffering, which is just the "suffering of suffering" is the only suffering that is being discussed. They don't acknowledge that there is suffering in the "suffering of change" or this "pervasive suffering". So to get the clear concept you need the-[Audio abruptly cuts-out @0:47:54.3]

0:48:00.7

[Audio abruptly cuts back in @0:48:05.7] -is that there is no suffering connected with those experiences, and they don't look at it the way the Buddhists do.

Rimpoche: Mmmm. We talked at the- suffering great deal, the other last retreat I think. Really I mean, I don't think I have slightest doubt people here will know what we are talking about it. Really I don't think, we really spent long, long time talking about that in the last- right? [Audience: Yes.] So I think it is only matter of selecting an appropriate word for it. Because you don't want to hit so hard, so you don't want get dizzy, and you don't want to hit so light so that you think you can do anything you want to.

Audience: Maybe it's not just one word, maybe its the problem of constant change. Something like that.

Rimpoche: That covers only one suffering, there's three of them, right? [Audience: Mmhm.] There eight of them, nine, ten, sixteen of them if you go detail. We went detail in three of them. Anyway, that's that about it. So and don't want to touch it today otherwise we not going to be anywhere. So, so the first noble truth, I think we presumably covered it well, that last retreat. Which you're not in but you can listen to the tapes if you want to. Last retreat we been praying for, the group been praying for your son.

Audience: He is much better. Thank you all very much.

Rimpoche: Mmhm! So now the second noble truth is- I think that where we're stopped, right? Did we talk about the second noble, Brenda?

Audience, Brenda: That's where we were, cause of suffering, shows how samsara develops.

Rimpoche: Mmmhm. Cause of suffering.

Audience, Brenda: Karmic cause and then delusion cause is more powerful, and then you were gonna- where you ended was we were going to talk about the six-root delusions or the twenty-secondary delusions.

Rimpoche: I like to follow the Pabongkha division back to today again. So, "Pungye chu tsama dem...", ok, cause of suffering

0:51:00.4

and how the cause of suffering develops within individual. So how the delusions develop, number one, number two how they created karma, and number three how one dies and take rebirth, okay? And this we going to talk three-categories. [Audience, Brenda: Just say what they are again, I'm sorry.] Mmhm, number one - how we develop the delusions, how does delusions grow, two - how the delusions create karma, three - birth and death, dying and taking birth. That is called service act. Good. Okay, so before we know how the delusions develop but we should know what are they. Right? So recognizing the delusions and looking how the delusions grow within the one individual, and cause of delusion, and consequences of delusion. Any problems any body? You have to share your note with Colleen, okay, thank you. Any problems, any body, so far? No problem. Are you with us? No problem. And you? Nicholas, Nicholas-Nicholas? Okay? [Audience, Nicholas: I'm here.] Okay. You ok? Stephanos? Okay.

0:54:00.5

So before what we have covered is that we have supposed to have covered the problems that one faces in samsara in general and particularly in particular realms. So we are supposed to be by this time, we are supposed to be fed up with samsara but we might not have been [Rimpoche chuckles] but hopefully we will be. You hear me, Christina? We are suppose to be fed up with samsara.

Audience, Christina: What is a samsara?

Rimpoche: There you go, could you answer that? Kathy?

Audience, Kathy: Samsara is referring to the cycle of suffering.

Rimpoche: I beg your pardon?

Audience, Kathy: The cycle of suffering.

Rimpoche: Cycle of suffering, is that correct? Cycle of suffering. Barry is shaking head. Cycle of suffering, Matt, comment on that will you?

Audience, Matt: I would say.

Rimpoche: Don't say I would say, would you comment on that?

Audience, Matt: [Matt sighs and mumbles]

Rimpoche: I mean you should attack, yeah really. This is not attacking from heart but you know really correcting.

Audience, Matt: Cycle of suffering? That's what you said?

Rimpoche: That's what she said. If you attack, she has to defend. You have to remember that too, she have very strong defense I know. [Extended silence] Matt is thinking.

Audience, Matt: Let Sandy go, go ahead.

0:57:00.3

Audience: We want Matt to think.

Rimpoche: Yeah, he's thinking. You don't want to say it?

Audience, Matt: I can't, I haven't found a good attack.

Rimpoche: Allright, you say give up? I pass.

Audience, Matt: Yeah.

Rimpoche: Ok. Actually I wanted to go to Caroline Hasting, if Matt passes the bucket.

Audience, Caroline: If someone were asking that question that really didn't know I would try to be more exact rather than a cycle of suffering then talk about the constant birth and rebirth that we take in this existence and the fact that its- we are in this cycle of existence over-and-over-and-over-and over again, and we can't get out of it, we're tied like a rope to this, to something that keeps us going around-and-around-and-around-and-around and we can't escape from that and go into a place of enlightenment.

Rimpoche: Or??

Audience, Caroline: Or... I was going to the word nirvana but-

Rimpoche: That doesn't mean anything. You pass your bucket already.

Audience: What do you mean by cycle? You said cycle of suffering, right?

Rimpoche: Ok, there you go.

Audience, Kathy: What I mean by cycle was the continuous repetition of [indistinct-reeming] in only one track and only doing the one thing, because the suffering continues itself and creates itself and continues itself and creates itself.

Audience: How is it continuing?

Audience, Kathy: Going to the root, all actions that are based in ignorance continue to recreate and create suffering.

Audience: All actions based in ignorance continue to recreate and create?

Audience, Kathy: Continue to perpetuate the cycle of suffering.

Audience: All actions based in ignorance continue to perpetuate the cycle of suffering.

Audience, Kathy: Everything based in ignorance from a wrong view continue the wrong, the suffering.

Rimpoche: [indistinct]

Audience: What's that?

Audience: So it's a condition?

1:00:00.4

Rimpoche: Come on...

Audience: I'm losing.

Rimpoche: I mean yeah, you didn't go directly. Nicolas, yes.

Audience, Nicholas: Don't take it personally but did you say cycle was continuous? Because cycle, the word cycle, is doesn't describe continuous.

Audience, Kathy: Perhaps I should be using the circle.

Audience, Nicholas: Well it is cyclic but suffering is only one element of the cycle. If you say like happiness and stuff, that would give you the opposite like the two poles that you bounce off of it.

Rimpoche: Like ping-pong.

Audience, Kathy: What are you saying, you are including happiness and suffering? Are you saying they are separate?

Audience: I'm saying that for somebody that doesn't understand samsara that the cyclic is right, but to understand the cycle is that the fact that you bounce between what appears to be happiness and then what appears to be pain. And also that there is some impulse that drives you towards happiness and that you always get pain as a result.

Rimpoche: Richard? Richard, any comments on that? No?

Audience, Richard: I understand what he's saying but it strikes me that Kathy's comments are accurate in the sense that the balancing between happiness, what we consider happiness, and pain is indeed suffering.

Rimpoche: He's defending Kathy. Barry?

Audience, Barry: I would have went a different way than Kathy on samsara. I would have called it the continuation of my attachment to some form, which then some suffering.

Rimpoche: Yeah, yeah, I think you're picking up my words. Form, that's what I did it, right? [Audience, Barry: Yes, a long time ago I think.] That's right, yeah, I used word form myself. I'm raising question to myself whether I'm using the same correct terminology in English or not. This is just going on in my head when you're saying that, you know? [Rimpoche chuckles]

1:03:00.3

Ok. Not necessarily have to be physical form.

Audience, Barry: No, here it is but here it's form but it doesn't have to be that.

Rimpoche: What did identity, what did identity work better than- but then will Buddha be identity-less? Then becomes opposite problem comes.

Audience: You can say influenced by delusion.

Rimpoche: Well then theres- I'm not sure about that still. Because you know, when the base of the samsara, it has to be working here opposite of it is working at other level. If you use word identity then your be Buddha will be identity-less.

Audience: If you say continuation of identity influenced by delusion.

Rimpoche: Yeah, you got continuation of identity plus influence plus by delusion, right? It will go "do-do-do-do-do", maybe you're right. Maybe that's you have to do. Yes Chris?

Audience: Is one of the things that's out of your- when you're in samsara it seems to be out, or it is out of your control and that you're really trapped.

Rimpoche: Sure, it is control. Trapped, by whom? Who put the trap?

Audience: Yourself! Because you don't know any better.

Rimpoche: Maybe that's- yeah it's a trap, maybe that's true but I don't know. I think maybe that's true. You're trapped in, that's true.

Audience: Trapped by your karma.

Rimpoche: Well, karma doesn't have bad- it looks like karma is evil devil or something, want to trap you down.

Audience: You're trapped by your delusions, aren't you trapped by your delusions and your poisons? By your ignorance?

Rimpoche: She said that already, she said you don't know better which means you're talking about ignorance, which talking about delusions. Already she said it, you know. I don't know.

Audience: I like bad habits. Everyone can understand that, you know?

Audience, milieu: Yeah but it's more than that.

Rimpoche: Yeah, its more than that.

Audience: I like Alex's term in this case, you know like "uncontrollably recurring existence".

Audience: Conditioned existence?

Audience: No he doesn't say conditioned existence, its something else.

Audience: Uncontrollably but its not uncontrollable.

Audience: It is uncontrollable so long as you're in, its uncontrollable. If its in your control, you're not in it. [Audience milieu cross-talk]

1:06:00.5

Rimpoche: No, that's not right.

Audience: Its not something that controls you from without.

Rimpoche: That's not right, that's not right. That's not right, you know why? The pakpas. [Audience: Aryas.] Are in samsara but [indistinct- its not in control].

Audience: Its a level in which you're not completely in samsara-

Rimpoche: What do you mean pakpas are not in samsara! Nonsense. [Audience laughs] Yes, unless you become [indistinct- takchom], you become a- you in samsara.

Audience: But their not a samsaric, they're not a "semchen" Rimpoche. They're not-

Rimpoche: What are there other sangye, pakpas and sangyes?

Audience: A pakpa is still not a semchen as I understand it...

Rimpoche: Oh my god, is pakpa a sangye? [Audience: No.] Then what is it, is there a third kind?

Audience: I understand a highly realized being, they're not part of the sentient "tamchen".

Rimpoche: Oh no, no, no, so that is total mistake. Really, it is big mistake. I'm telling you, really big mistake.

Audience: I'm sorry, I accept it Rimpoche. I heard this specifically...

Rimpoche: That's wrong, that's totally wrong, you know? Why, either you have to be sentient being, enlightened sentient being or non-enlightened sentient being. You cannot be between. Either you enlightened or you're not enlightened, that's all. Either you become non-enlightened sentient being or you become an enlightened sentient being, you can be in between.

Audience: So then your saying "Dag Chonpa", an arhat, is also a sentient- this is another word Alex...

Rimpoche: No a "Dag Chonpa" is sentient being to me. Yes. It's not sentient being of samsaric sentient being.

Audience: Ok, I'm just talking Tibetan, the word sentient being-

Rimpoche: Word sentient being, word sentient semchen. All dag chonpas are semchens, though except sangye they all other semchen. All non-sangyes are semchen. And this is big mistake if you do it, really its great big mistake.

Audience: Ok, I accept that. I've just been very specifically told that, that you know, that's why.

Rimpoche: Well, no, I'm glad you raised that but it is definitely mistake. Either you are enlightened or you're not enlightened, you can't be in between.

Audience: So a 10th-level bodhisattva is still a-

Rimpoche: Tenth-level bodhisattva is still semchen, and that's why Panchen Sonam Drakpa says Maitreya Buddha is semchen not a sangye. Jaiyashava says Maitreya Buddha is a Buddha but that is different, but "gyewa chedu tsema", they call it 10th-level bodhisattva who next life going to be Buddha is sentient being. Of course sentient being, but not enlightened sentient being.

1:09:00.5

They're not enlightened beings, for sure. For that reason they say Maitreya Buddha is not enlightened sentient being. I'm sorry I should not have raised this Maitreya Buddha business but it is big mistake. Whatever it is, it is big mistake to say. All dag chompas, all arhats, all aryas are non-enlightened beings, all of them except Buddha. Whoever becomes Buddha then becomes enlightened being, I mean the dag chompas are called ordinary enlightened beings. They become ordinary conquerors, the dag chompa means arhats, no more learning level of lower-level categories. Out of five paths, by the way where is this chart?

Audience: Well, again, I have it packed up in some boxes that I don't have here Rimpoche. I'll try to get them soon, we can in the meantime get that book out of the library.

Rimpoche: Ok, there is a five-path and ten-bhumi's chart available which is worked out by one of my teachers, many of my teachers actually, together. A friend of mine, a very very respectful Rimpoche called "Tai Rimpoche", whos in Germany, he wrote a Tibetan art book. And in that he had produced this chart, the chart was prepared before him by many great teachers, who are living at that time. Very nice chart made in South India, is available in there. So I want to make xerox and- actually they have copyright it, it's okay we can xerox it and give it, get it for everybody. Then you see it, how the five-path, ten-bhumis, how its working. Its worked out in modern like architecture's chart and he has the copy locked in one of the boxes, in many places, wherever it is, cannot find it. [Audience: I just haven't gotten to it.] Just joking. Anyway, don't say pakpas are not sangyes ok? Sangye pakpa might be sangye but pakpas are not [indistinct-fine]. Okay, now let's go. So before we really go here, we are suppose to really know about fed-up with the samsara, so we don't even know what samsara is before we get fed-up with samsara. [Rimpoche laughs] We are suppose to be there,

1:12:00.3

getting fed-up, but we don't even know samsara. I want to say the continuation of uncontrolled life. Life... lives. Or life, right? [Audience: Uncontrolled lives.] Uncontrolled lives.

Audience: You can say conditioned existence, right?

Rimpoche: Hmm? What does that mean?

Audience: Existence with conditions on it over which we have little or no control. There's always a condition, there's always a catch, and if its conditioned then it can't stand forever. So it would be like relentlessly recurring conditioned existence.

Audience: It doesn't actually say that. [Audience: What?] Conditioned existence, it applys those things only if you hear it now. Conditioned existence on its own doesn't mean any of that on its own.

Audience: So you're saying it could be good conditions?

Audience: I mean it's conditional, which means it is dependent on other things. It doesn't say anything about recurring, it doesn't just address the causes or anything else.

Audience: That would be my addition, something in my definition of relentlessly recurring conditioned existence.

Audience: There's nothing mentioned about cycle and "korwa"...

Rimpoche: No, doesn't have to be Tibetan translation at all.

Audience: I don't know Tibetan.

Rimpoche: Yeah, I don't think it have to be translation. This is problem, you know, we have another problem: problem of try to get Tibetan words and Sanskrit words, both of them try to be correctly coming in and then make sense in English where the word comes and make everybody understand. Which is not working very well, this is why many of the translations are almost unreadable because of that. What do you think Sandy, what Mike say? Because I don't understand, it is beyond my comprehension.

Audience, Sandy: To me, like I said, I'm an advocate for the word delusion in there somewhere. That really, that very clearly differentiates between samsara and [indistinct- the bardo].

Rimpoche: Maybe I'll go and talk continuously what I'm suppose to talk and maybe you can better understand a little bit more. Oh you want to say something, Francis? Oh, datok ma? Only between you and I know what datok means, right? You know, oh yeah, you know too don't you?

Audience: Well you explained.

1:15:00.6

Rimpoche: Allright.

Audience: If its what you mean then.. [Rimpoche: Huh?] If its as you explained it...

Rimpoche: What did I explain? Maybe not, okay. So we suppose to be unhappy, dissatisfied with the samsara and we dislike samsara by now, why? Because we see a lot of faults in samsara which brings a lot of sadness, sour, sorrow. In short, in samsaric- in the normal, in our life sometimes it seems we enjoy, sometimes we seem to be suffering so much, we almost freaking out, sometimes we are falling apart, sometimes we are so much together. Whatever it might be if you look in this grand total conclusion, when you look all of them, the grand total conclusion there is always sorrow in it. If you look at the grand total of wealthy chap or poor person... or happy go lucky, or very serious, the grand total is always there's a sorrow. Something regrettable for the individual, something has to feel loss by the nearest and dearest always. Right or wrong. Which makes us not really happy with this, which makes us to look more, to think more. 1:18:00.3

Which makes us not very enjoyable, the whole thing. Which makes us think more, look for something better, I mean they got to be better, right? Not everything can be end with sorrow, there got to be better. There is better! Which somehow we're not finding it. Are you people with me? Some people are not finding it, why are we not finding it? Because we are not looking, we are not looking at the right direction. We are looking [indistinct-within]. You look at majority of the people when they're looking for happiness, what are they looking?

Audience: Something temporary.

Rimpoche: Yeah, but they look for- I mean normally, normal Americans, when you look for happiness what do you look? If you're poor, you look for money; if you're rich, you look for companion, control, power. Wait a minute Gloria, let me finish. And that makes sure us- that really telling us that we not looking for the right direction because if you look for the companion, you find one companion not good, they throw away, they look for another one and they think they going to find happiness in it. And a few years later, they might not even take few years, few months later or whatever, they find that also the same thing. So all this really shows, it is not the companion, it is not the money, so when we are looking in money, companion, or anything, the house or room, whatever looking for, it is not that one

1:21:00.4

it is something else. So which is indicating we are looking in the wrong direction, people generally, people look for wrong direction. So when you look for the right direction, how you look for the right direction? Tell me, how you look for the right direction. I'm raising this question: how do you look for the right direction? Do I hear anybody answering this? Yes Brenda?

Audience, Brenda: You examine all the things that you think will give you happiness. The new car, the companion, the house, the possessions, the jewels, the clothes, whatever, and you recognize after looking at each one of these things, that each one of these things is only temporary. And that the person that you love dies, and the new car gets smashed up or gets old, and the house falls apart, and that there's nothing in any of these things that can really give you lasting joy and lasting happiness. And after you've gone through in your mind each one of these things and come to the realization that there is no peace and that there is no joy and that there is no, kind of, lasting satisfaction for you in any of these things, then you're forced to ask yourself: well then what else is there? And when you ask yourself what else is there, for me when I reached that point, that for me was the spiritual awakening, that the moment that I knew that there had to be a way that there was happiness that was not available to me through those things. That those things where only kind of temporary stop-gaps in which I was kind of immersing my self and losing touch with anything that would be lasting, more real. And I think that's- I mean that process of analyzation is what I think brings people to the spiritual path and when you do come to the spiritual path then you find that there are things that are lasting. And I know that my recognition right off the bat was that unlike any of those things, the Dharma was something that I wasn't going to lose and not only I wasn't going to lose it this lifetime but I wasn't going to lose it through all my lifetimes and it was something I could hold onto. And that through learning, and studying, and practicing, there was a way that I could transcend these temporary dissatisfactions and get to a place where there would be permanent happiness and satisfaction. That was the process for me.

Rimpoche: You have said very nice things but what proof you got, what you said?

Audience, Brenda: What proof do I have? [Rimpoche: Yeah.] My own experience I'm speaking from...

Rimpoche: No, no, up to the level where you

1:24:00.3

talk about dissatisfaction, beyond that what proof you got, Dharma is not going lose life after life? You simply rely on the words.

Audience, Brenda: That you could hear that that's what I was doing?

Rimpoche: No. I hear beyond that but I wanted to know what proof you got.

Audience, Brenda: Well, that's right, it wasn't an intuitive knowledge, I had to learn and study and I had to also come to- it was a slow process. I think I had an immediate apprehension that this was something that I could hold onto [Rimpoche: Yes.], that was not something I had to learn, that I knew. I said yes, this, I know, I got to have this. Then there was a process of like finding out what this was and learning, and studying, and growing with that. And the other kinds of learning came after but that immediate jump that leap of knowing, that that was what was there, that could be held onto was an immediate thing.

Rimpoche: That is called karmic connection. [Audience, Brenda: That's what it is.] That's karmic connection, or what you call it this- what is "ka-cha"?

Audience: Instinct.

Rimpoche: Instinct, right.

Audience: Instinctive response or something like that.

Rimpoche: That doesn't make- that doesn't... what is "pa-chi", do you know what "pa-chi" is?

Audience: Yeah, well, in the context of like a throwing karma or something like that, potential.

Rimpoche: Matt? [Softly speaks Tibetan]

Audience: Built on habit and certain associations-

Rimpoche: You don't know "pa-cha", that's it. That's ok.

Audience, Sandy: The only thing I was going to say, when you originally asked Brenda that question the answer that popped in my mind is that basic- sort of, I assumed you- we'd already covered the ground of dissatisfaction, wanting to get out of samsara, so then at what point what do you do now? And that my idea was that you look around to see well has anybody else gotten out of this mess? Has anybody else succeeded in getting out of samsara...

Rimpoche: Yeah, ok, that's also fine. But how? How I'm going to find it? I don't care whether Tsongkhapa gone or the teachers have succeeded...

Audience, Sandy: Right, but then you follow in the steps of the teacher...

Rimpoche: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah but that's normal talk, normal what we say but now practically how am I going to find what I'm looking for?

Audience: I think you can only do it yourself.

Rimpoche: I know that, I know that!

1:27:00.3

But how are you going to find it? Yeah?

Audience: This probably isn't what you were looking for but I found for myself it was the process of recognizing my expectations and letting go of my attachments step-by-step to such things and that led me to the mindfulness to be alert to those who have already- so I looked for as Sandy said, and it was like a dual process of not hanging onto one and looking for the other one.

Rimpoche: Yeah, that's true. That's also true. Yeah that's also very fine.

Audience: Do you remember last year when you talked to us about did we really want to be a Buddha and was that really our goal? That started a whole process for me [Rimpoche: Mmhm, mmhm.], the sense of what that meant and whether that was possible for me and the sense of focusing on a place where there was an angerless place. And an almost- you know all of those juicy feelings are just they're not there anymore, and that was a very powerful teaching.

Rimpoche: Ok, that's one good thing but still, how do I find? Gloria, you said gradual process, you look in, within you, how?

Audience, Gloria: Meditation. Practicing the dharma.

Rimpoche: How!? That's not answer that only word you playing games with them. Give me a true correct answer.

Audience, Gloria: You go to the root of your existence and you look and you realize your attachments and you cut them.

Rimpoche: How!

Audience: Emptiness!

Rimpoche: That's ok, that's fine. How you find it? Richard? Or Barry, or Al, or Chris, Caroline, Matt, anybody.

Audience, milieu: It's lam-rim, it's the path.

Rimpoche: Yes, yes but still more. Here in this point what would you do?

Audience: Everytime that I feel the suffering I look for where it is coming from-

Rimpoche: Great, now come on, come on, come on! Get, get, get, get! Get! Get!

Audience: See where my attachments are and that's where I go.

Rimpoche: You are getting- you are pushing, beginning to push the button. What you going to do is you're not going- you know really you realize this, we also talk from here to going there and this and that. But actually it is not from here to there but it is changing here. This is the same life what we are going to have it, this is the same body what we going to have it, this is the same physical form, same mind,

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what we going to have it. So when you wanted really pain or problem or whatever it is, you know what we call it "dukkha", whatever it is. If you wanted a "dukkh-less" in here, so you not going to look outside, something like pure land and you say "Oh, over there, there is no dukkha let me get it over there. How do I get it? Get me taxi. Would you drive me limousine over there?", or yellow-cab take me over there, or plane take me over there. It's not going to work out, it's no way. So it is only way here, how am I going to change it? How I'm going to change it, that is the real question.

Audience: I think it is important to know that it is possible to change it and for that you look at examples to test.

Rimpoche: We do know that, we do that.

Audience: You think we know that but there are people who are existentialists or nihilist who think "This is the way it is, life is suffering, so what? Everybody suffers and that's the way it is and that's the end of it.".

Audience: That's why you research the cause, because you intend to change it.

Rimpoche: I presume people in this room is knows about this. I presume they knew, they're not nihilistic or existentialist here. I mean they don't want to give- alright it is suffering, there's the way, how it is, goes and you don't put full-stop there, I presume. If you put full-stop there, there's suffering, there's the way, there's the how it goes, there's no reason why people have to be here today. People who are here, there's no reason why they're here today and those that are not here, they can definitely think that! But those who are here, you know, driving long way, flying long way or whatever it is. I mean every body has something or another to do and that is reason they don't think this is suffering, how it goes, full-stop. They don't put full-stop, they think hey something follows, it's not full-stop, it is- what you call this? Comma. What is it, comma. So you begin to think, so how do I going to change? That means now the changing there is nothing- its not like white piece of cloth putting into the, dipping into the

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yellow or red color and take it out and become red or yellow cloth. It's not like that, you not going to change it. So its only way to change is eliminating those, what you call it, dukkhas within us. That's why you pushing the button, eliminating the dukkha within us. Are you with me, Caroline?

Audience, Caroline: I'm struggling with dukkha, that's faults within us or sorrows within us?

Rimpoche: That is the suffering what we call it, but we are not finding proper English word for it so we call it dukkha. That's better, I think its even better, if you don't know it. [Rimpoche chuckles][Audience milieu chatter] Ok, now the question comes we eliminate, eliminate right? Means finish, through. Eliminate dukkha within us, which is the key. Which is the key, the key is not magic, the key is not miracle, the key is to eliminate dukkha within us. You want to say or you want to disturb me? [Audience: Not about dukkha.] Then don't say anything else just now, okay? Key is to eliminate. Now, question is how to eliminate? Now the normal English expression is to "worked out". [Audience: Work it out.] Ok, how can you work it out? You cannot work it out dukkha at all because dukkha is dukkha. You cannot work it out dukkha at all. Did you hear me? You cannot work out dukkha at all but you can work it out with the cause of dukkha. That's why Buddha is so important, look how great Buddha is, you know. He give these four noble truths, how it links to each other, how logically linking. Truth of suffering,

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truth of cause of suffering, that's it. The linkage we have to work out within ourselves, if you work it out- we cannot work out the dukkha, we can work out the cause of the dukkha because its all karmic f-[Audio cuts-out abruptly @1:36:17.5-EOF]