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Tuesday October 10, Friends Meeting House, Ann Arbor MI

“On the Life and Works of His Holiness The Dalai Lama”

Transcriber: Gordon Burgess

[GR] Good evening, everybody. Tonight as you have noticed, instead of talking the subject what is allotted for tonight is a what? What was it?

[Student] Habitual patterns – breaking habitual patterns.

[GR] Breaking habits of patterns. So instead of that, we choose to talk about His Holiness, the Dalai Lama. Since our work in the Jewel Heart is spiritually oriented, and dealing with it, so I really feel happy if we have a little sort-of meditation first. Even thought we don’t have the mantras and all this – but, I would rather have be comfortable – I feel comfortable – so let’s sort of have a little silent meditation for a couple of minutes, as I’ve very much made my apologies. A couple of minutes of silent mediation. And in that meditation, if you could generate – what we call it – a pure motivation; a good motivation. Motivation – the word “motivation”: I’m not very sure whether it’s a correct word we are using or not. But what is really meant is, just to try to think whatever the next hour we’re going to do it – what we’re going to listen, talk, discuss – whatever it is – it is going to be for the benefit of all living beings. For the benefit of peace. To be able to bring the peace in the world. To benefit of all living beings – something like that, in that direction. If you generate it, so it will be – what we call it, a “pure motivation”. But anyway, if it is correction-making, in your thought – in case if you have come here for out of curiosity, or in case you just wanted to know what it is, or something like that – just make a little more better purposeful – better purpose. So that’s to make a sort of a training to the mind. So if you could do that, it’d be nice, and we’d start with a silent meditation for a minute.

[GR] So – Robert, can you – somebody tried to get in the door, and then to get in and out of – can you see that? Thank you.

[GR] Thank you. Tonight we are going to talk about His Holiness, the Dalai Lama. The reason – of course you all know – he had received his Nobel Peace Prize, so that’s where we should talk. Not only that, when we talk in the Buddhist practice – in the Tibetan tradition; the Buddhist practice – when we talk about very special persons, we talk about their lives, and the way – how the individual functions. And how the individual handles the problems that come across – is we will look at a sort of role model. And that’s the – that’s the reason why the lives and words of the teachers have been considered important in the Tibetan tradition. Is not that, “who is that guy?”, and “what did that guy do?”, or “did”, is not really the point. The point is, when difficulties – problems come, how these sort of people have handled, what sort of problems do they get, how they handle, and so – another word is, give an example of another one more choice of how we pick up our lives – problems, when we have to solve, how do we handle with that? That’s a sort of a one example. And another example – how they have put effort in that. How did they study, how did they learn it, how did they meditate? What sort of thing they gained, and how they helped other peoples; what their approach is, and whether it has been effective or not effective. And it is another way of showing us to deal with our problems in life. That’s what how we look in. So we don’t look in – you know – if you look in detail at the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, number of times, even before we do anything, we talk a lot about the lives of the different teachers. Those of you familiar with the lamrim practice who are doing it, you’re supposed to spend a month talking about the lives of the different teachers – though – I mean, it is impossible in the 1980’s in the United States to do that – but originally, it was supposed to be.

So the whole reason is, giving example. And because, you know, when you go through a teaching, when you go through a practice, you are bound to find a problem. Because – you’re not going to be problem-free, at all. Problem is bound to be there, in practice. The more spiritually oriented you go, and the deeper it is, you’ll find a lot of problem within that. You have to! If you don’t find the problem, you can’t solve them; when you can’t solve them, you’re not going to be better at all. So therefore, it is – it is – you found a lot of problems. And when you encounter these problems, how you act, how you handle, is the example you look on the lives of the teacher. So on this context, and putting all-and-all together, so we thought, is very good – not bad – idea to talk about His Holiness, tonight. [8:03]

So that’s the reason why we have changed the [Tib] dō (? [8:10]) from the original plan to in this – so that’s – that’s the reason. And about the – before I go about His Holiness’ life or anything – why this Dalai Lama is so important for the Tibetans? And as you see always, among the Tibetans, you’ll see there are a lot – and a lot of great incarnate lamas; there are a lot and lot of good teachers; there are a lot and lot of the – head of religions, say. I hate to call it “sect”, but head of the relig – head of the different traditions, and [laughs] – I’m trying to find the – some sort of suitable words – uh, they’re there – but among them, and the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama was the two most prominent among the Tibetan tradition. I mean the two most prominent, the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama. And in between the two of them, the Dalai Lama is still considered the more important. So why all this? Because in the west, people are do aware about Dalai Lama, people do aware about Panchen Lama, because it is enough publicity, and then people were head of this sect and that sect, and this and that, all of them – and do hear about it and do think about it, but uh – and a lot of people would think, “why so-and-so’s important?” For example, each one of those teachers – before I go anywhere now (down? [10:07]) – let’s say – let’s you check up all these different teachers; each any one are spiritually higher than others? The answer is definitely, “no”. It’s marked (? [10:22]) because one is spiritually higher than the others? No. These important-ness among the Tibetans is the service what they have rendered to the people of Tibet. According to that, the prominent has been giving.

In the case of the Dalai Lama, it considered so important – why – among the Tibetans? And as a model, the Dalai Lama = the Dalai Lama is considered – among the Tibetan people, I’m talking – I will talk a lot of Tibetan culture here. Among the Tibetans, they do believe – consider the Dalai Lama is the manifestation of a Buddha of love and compassion, Avalokitesvara. Manifestation, actually. Not only a reincarnation, but also manifestation of a Buddha, of Avalokitesvara. The Avalokitesvara – Buddha of love compassion. So not only that – according – I have to go back – a little bit of Hindu Buddhist mixed and myth. Little bit. Hindu Buddhist mixed myth, is as they say – Tibetans are before Buddhism is not the picture of what in the west today give on Tibet. You know, a sort of very romantic picture of a very mystical simple – um – smiling, loving, stupid – whatever the picture [laughs, students laugh] – I’m just putting one word in [laughs] I’m just joking, huh? I mean, anyway, the western did – must have a picture of Tibet like this. It’s not true. Pre-Buddhist, it’s definitely not true. Tibetans are one of the wildest persons – really, very very wild, and very nuts (? [12:51]). And before Buddhism, the Tibetans are so wild, they – I mean, there’s not so much a negotiations – if it’s evidence correct, okay? You came out in life; if nothing – if something’s wrong, you probably not going to come out in life. You go in as life; you come out as dead body, or something. So that’s a wild – so wild, a people – and so wild, so even the earlier great teachers have decided even not to teach the martial arts in Tibet at all. They totally blocked – withdraw all of the martial arts, because of the wildness of the people. So and people are very wild, in uh traditionally, in Tibet – Tibetans are – but what happened is, because of the Buddhism, and they began to look inside, and they begin to see the problems they face is not in created entirely by somebody else and – it is uh – my own contributions are involved – and when they begin to see that, they begin to slow down, and then that little nice picture – what you have in the head, is begin to shave. (shape? [14:18]) Until then, is very wild. And so wild, so – even among the – this is a little bit of a myth I have to throw – among the conference of the Buddhas and Boddhisatvas was, nobody would like to go to Tibet. [14:34] [students laugh] Nobody wanted to. Nobody wanted to – they said, “it’s going to be a very wild – rough – rough – cold – and all meat eaters and skin wearers – they wear the animal skins – we wear animal skins to give a warm; eat meat for survive – and so everybody somehow another, including those great people like Manjushri – the wisdom – and all – so and everybody had some one or another excuse; nobody would like to – to sort of “take it”. but then Avalokitesvara who is the embodiment of love and compassion, sort of volunteered, and said “this is the most difficult, so I will pick it up, and I will carry on the work”, and so that’s one of the reasons – and we Tibetans do refer Avalokitesvara as [Tib] thake-lha or thake (sp [15:42]). If you divided all these different manifestations of the Buddhas to different directions, the Tibetans have got Avalokitesvara as their sort-of divided share, they have earned – so that’s called [Tib] thwake or thwake-lha (sp [16:00]) – or “special deity”. So that is uh – that’s why Tibetans do consider Avalokitesvara sort-of more important – while – can’t say “over others”, but sort-of – it is the one who … I mean – Avalokitesvara can be male and female both, so let me take the feminine gender – so it is she who would take a special responsible for Tibet, and for Tibetans to develop. So therefor they consider it sort-of specially closely linked yiddam. So that is one of the reason. And the Dalai Lama happens to be – considered to be a manifestation of Avalokitesvara. This is the important background where it was builds up, why the Dalai Lama becomes very important to the Tibetan people, is the – because of the Avalokitesvara and (unintelligible – maybe “it is”? [17:16]).

The second question – why the Panchen Lama is also considered very important – almost equal to – because the Panchen Lama considered to be the manifestation or the embodiment of a Buddha, Amitabha. Amitabha Buddha, who happens to be the teacher of Avalokitesvara. So that’s why interlinked there, so these are the two of them – are very prominent among the Tibetans. That’s one of the reason. And uh – the – when you look to the lineage - the lineage of the Dalai Lama, and the present Dalai Lama considered to be the 14th one in the lineage. But that is the incarnation lineage. But if you look it back, in the life lineage, not counting as incarnation, it is – now there is a lot of confusion – it is not be – this is not an out of place to mention. There are a lot of confusion among the young Tibetans today, as well as the western friends make more confused – there are two things: each one of these incarnate lamas carry two lineage – one is the incarnation lineage, the other is the life lineage. So life lineage and the incarnation lineage. And you may say, “what is the difference?” The difference is ever since the sort-of acknowledge identify with the name and the consistent one life after another recognize – that’s called “incarnation lineage”. The other is during their previous lives – then this is the – this is the – this is the lineage of the life. So if you look into the any incarnate lama, when you look into there, there’s always something during the Buddha’s period – it was so-and-so – during so-and-so’s period, it was so-and-so, it was – everybody has that. Everybody. Every incarnate lama – normally, they have that; this life lineage they have. So that was not counted as incarnation lineage. The incarnate – so – that’s true. So incarnation lineage was counted since one after life continues to be recognized. So the present Dalai Lama – the Dalai Lama’s life is fourteen. The longest lineage among the Tibetan incarnated lamas are – is Karmapa. The Karmapa carries – the late, His Holiness Karmapa was Sixteenth Karmapa. Karmapa is the longest one in the incarnation lineage. So I – why I say this? [20:29] Nowadays, I read, western people printed in English comes from somewhere, says 21st reincarnation of this - 34th reincarnation of this – I start reading. So what’s happening is, the writers as well as the - I don’t know – the translators problem, or the individual problem, or – they started mixing the lineage of the incarnation with the life lineage. So the Dalai Lama’s life lineage – if you have to count, you have to count from the Avalokitesvara, who happens to be during the Buddha’s period – two thousand five hundred years ago – it would not be standing fourteen, it should now be standing – about two hundred something. So, it’s not. This is the simple reason. And people getting mixed up nowadays, and started writing all sorts of funny things. [21:27]

So – I mean, it is uh, mainly, the – what happened is uh – I mean, I can very well imagine, uh – there’s a one teacher and who talks about it; there’s a one interpreter, who tries to interpret; and there is a – a western friend who’s writing it – so, three people involved. And then you will say, “oh,” - then the one will say, “who is before that?” And then the interpreter will say, “who is before that?” And then you’ll say, “before that was something something” – so they started counting, and it go thirty two, thirty four – and they started writing that. That’s what’s happening. [22:09]

So I think as the western Dharma friend should know – I mean, there is nothing more than Karmapa – Karmapa is the longest one; it is sixteenth. When the Karmapa’s reincarnation come, it’s going to be seventeenth. That is the longest in the incarnation lineage among the Tibetan thing. So when you see thirty two, twenty one, this and that – it means they mixed up with the life lineage. So that, everybody has. Everybody – when you look through, somebody is a reincarnation of Vimilamitra (?[22:47]), somebody is a reincarnation of Avalokitesvara, somebody’s a reincarnation of Manjushri – they always linked up that. So that is different story altogether. [23:00]

Now, about the Dalai Lama. So the first Dalai Lama is the Gendun Drup, who been recognized as the Dalai Lama – uh – but no – not as Dalai Lama. Sorry. That is the first Indian lineage of the Dalai Lama, is the Dawa Gendun Drup, (?[23:22]) which was dead – I totally forgot. Okay … [laughs] Uh – it is the fourteen hundreds. It is the disciple of Tsongkhapa – (dalek?[23:36]) disciple of Tsongkhapa, great Tsongkhapa. And actually, the Gendun – true – the first Dalai Lama – found[ed] the big monastery in Tibet, called Tashi Lhunpo, where the Panchen Rinpoche’s seat are there today. [23:55] Is the founded by the first Dalai Lama – that monastery was founded by first Dalai Lama. So they – that – they call it a “Tashi Lhunpo”. And if you read western books, earlier, they say, “called Tashi Lama”, and then Tashi Monastery – is all sorts of funny things, they call it. Anyway, they say Tashi Lhunpo is the biggest monastery – one of the biggest monastery – fourth biggest monastery in Tibet. Was found[ed] by the first Dalai Lama. And the first and the second is not known as “Dalai Lama”; the Third Dalai Lama got the title of “Dalai Lama”. [24:35]

The Dalai Lama is come from the Mongolian word – it is not a Tibetan – matter of fact, it is Mongolian. The Third Dalai Lama is the son of one of the fabled (?[24:52]) kings of the Mongols. The Altans –

[GR Aside 24:56] am I right? – Altan. You are the scholar; you understated both that this is true – [student laughs] [25:03]

[GR] Anyway, So – Altan King’s son, and then they gave afterwards – they give title, “Dalai Lama”. “Dalai”, in the – I believe – in the Mongolian language is, “ocean”. The “lama of ocean”. They are saying the knowledge of this particular lama is equal to the ocean. That’s why they named, “Dalai Lama”. It is the Mongolian language, okay?

So anyway, during the Third Dalai Lama’s period, the name of the Dalai Lama – title was given to him – offered to him by one of the Mongol kings. So since then, known as Dalai Lama. But uh – the first two, who went without Dalai Lama’s title – without calling Dalai Lama – do – is considered as lineage of the – incarnation lineage of the Dalai Lama. [26:09]

Then during the Fifth Dalai Lama’s period. Fifth Dalai Lama’s period. Fifth Dalai Lama is very often referred to as, “Great Fifth”. Why he’s called great? Number one, he is one of the outstanding scholars of that period. Outstanding scholar. Not only in Buddhist philosophy, but in medicine, astrology, and everything. The art – so he is one of the outstanding scholar – not only in Buddhism – Buddhist Tantra and the Mahayana – but also – and logic; Buddhist logic. Outstanding scholar. And he always had a great deal of difficulties with the ruler of Tibet. Before Dalai Lama, the ruler of Tibet is a lay people with a sort-of family – and is the – sort-of the – after the son, father, the son rules – that sort of – the family – what do you call it? Can’t call it “dynasty”, but –

[Audience] (inaudible [27:34])

[GR] huh?

[Audience] clan?

[GR] Thank you. So that is the rule going on. So in the 1644 – the 1644, the Fifth Dalai Lama – Lama – gained the – not only the religion’s – he was outstanding scholar. Actually at that some there two outstanding great scholars in Tibet. Two outstanding. Both happens to be from Ganden (? [28:13]) monastery. Both from the Ganden monastery; outstanding at that time. And one is, Drupa Thaye Genza (? [28:22]), and the other is the Ngawang Lobsang Gyatso – the Fifth Dalai Lama. [28:26]

So the Fifth Dalai Lama not only headed the sort-of religion’s – from his scholar point of, everybody respects him. But also gain a political power over Tibet. Because what happen is, the Mongols – some kind of a Mongols people started attacking Tibet, and gained control all over the Tibet. So the Mongols are giving – select truth (? [28:59]) this Dalai Lama up, because he’s Dalai Lama – that’s a Mongol name! [laughs] So he picked it up – the Mongol picked it up, and they also have the previous two Dalai Lamas is from the Mongols. So they have a connection as well. So they sort of support. It is during the king of – almost close to the Ghengis Khan period, so the Mongols are very powerful at that time, throughout everywhere.

[Aside to student] What is Ghengis Khan period? No, I’m wrong. Much after, okay. A little after Ghengis –

[GR] So anyway, there is a Mongol very strong power. So I’m very bad on the date, okay? So thank you for correcting.

[Aside to student] By how much after is it, anyway?

[Student] Uh – a couple centuries I believe, uh – the Altan group is the clan of all these Mongol Khans, and I think – during the time of the Sakya Pandit that was during the –

[GR] Sakya Pandit

[Student] during the time of the grandsons of the Ghengis

[GR] okay – so during the time of the grandsons of the Ghengis – yeah [29:52]

[GR] anyway, so – with that help, and uh the Dalai Lama came over – got all political power in Tibet. And then established the government called Ganden Potang. It was first established in 1644, in Tashi Lhungpo monastery, where the seat of Panchen Lama is. And from there, he started ruling the Tibet. Then – since then, now last 500 years. Uh, over 500 years, right now. Um – uh, I don’t know whether you can carry up to today, or whether you have to stop in 1959 – I do not know. Probably you have to stop in 1950. Because in the ‘51, the Chinese communists took over Tibet, and that’s about it – and I think it’s about it end, truly speaking – though we don’t like to call it end there. [laughs]

But I think that’s about it. So, um – so over 500 years, I think – and that Dalai Lama has been the ruler of Tibet. Both – some call it “temporal and spiritual head of Tibet” – or political head and spiritual head together. [31:24] So that’s why the Dalai Lama still important for the Tibetans. And being the politics and the religion together, we have called this as , “Chos se Samje” (Tib sp? [31:41]) – and Dharma and politics combined. This is unique to the Tibetans. It is really unique to the Tibetan situation. And I’m not going to touch that, because if I touch this, I’ll be talking only about how Dharma and politics goes together. so – so that would not be nice. But the unique Dharma-politics together is based on – the base is the compassion. The basics of the policy is based on compassion. Really. So it is very funny, and very interesting. So it is the politics of compassion which ruled Tibet for 500 years – up to the – up to the Chinese communist took over in the 1950. Uh, to be precise, I think May 1951. So ‘till then – up to that – it was taken. [32:50]

Then all these 500 years, Dalai Lama is considered to be the ruler of Tibet; in between, they have regents comes up. The regent in between – when the one Dalai Lama died, ‘till they find next reincarnation, and until that reincarnation is properly educated. In between that, the regent will take up. The regent comes up. The regent also – is is slightly – I mean – it is an old-fashioned society. So it is a regent that also comes up from a very selected labrang (Tib [33:24]) – you can’t call it “families”, because they’re not married, and they don’t have that title, “family”. But it’s some kind of institution owned by individual lamas – we refer to them as labrangs – so it comes from a selective labrangs – only four or five – later came one, and so it becomes six. Traditionally, only out of four labrangs. So the incarnate lamas of that particular labrangs will come up, and become the Regent of Tibet. [33:59]

So that’s how 500 years of the Dalai Lama’s rule in Tibet had been carried on.

So as far as is at present, His Holiness The Dalai Lama – Tendzin Gyatso – is concerned, it is very funny. This reincarnation of a Tibetan is very interesting. The present Dalai Lama – take this example – is very interesting example. When the 13th Dalai Lama died – the previous, before him – the 13th Dalai Lama died in 1933 – who incidentally happens to be my f... – [pauses] – huh?

[Student] (inaudible [35:04])

[GR] Yeah. I mean sort-of, you know, born in that family, in where 13th Dalai Lama was born. Anyway.

So when she died, what happened is, his body was kept on the throne, facing south. So at night they go out, and they lock the door, right? So one fine morning, when they walked in, they found body completely turned and facing east! They said, “not a single soul is believable in there.” The body turned to the east. A completely turned to the east. The throne is facing this way; the body is completely turned and facing east. [35:49] And then, it is, uh – it is – he died on the thirtieth on the tenth month on the Tibetan calendar, which falls sometime in uh – like the end of November / early December type of thing – it’s very cold in Tibet. And there’s no heating system in Tibet, in the buildings, okay? And all of a sudden they found one big mushroom growing on the pillar where the body is – the other side pillar – again, facing east. Big mushroom growing. [Audience laughs, Rinpoche chuckles] Yeah. And then, another thing is they found – a sned (Tib [36:44]) – in a dagang sned (?[36:51]). It – you – called a different name for that in English – what is called?

[Student] (unintelligble)

[GR] A flower. Yeah, sned dagang (Tib ?[36:59]) You understand that – actual name’s not a sned dagang, it’s called –

[Student] Nasturtium

[GR] Is that right? Yeah, thank you.

So anyway, one of the sned dagang flower grow again towards the east, still – in that cold time – and it’s blooming. So everybody know – so this is some kind of sign, that this reincarnation is going to be from the east. They just know that. Nothing else. So it’s now – the body’s turning, facing east, and the mushroom growing towards the east, and the flower growing from the east – in the winter – I mean, frozen. And the temperature has to be much below frozen level – it has to be! No way! But all of them, happening so, they said, there’s no doubt – the incarnation’s going to be from east. But – east, is east, right? It’s huge, east. They have no idea where it’s going to be, right? That’s – that’s what happened.

So then of course, we have Regent. Regent is a very nice, young, incarnate lama who happens to be only 21 years old. [laughs] Well, it’s a very unfortunate for Tibet, anyway. There are a lot of historical reasons, so anyway – I will not go in that detail. And, uh – so he is very young, and a very young incarnate lama, and a very nice – wonderful – and a great lama, no doubt. Spiritually, very high. Brilliant (?[38:47]), there’s no question about it. What happened is – he was also – before he recognized as Reting Rinpoche, he was born – you know – in the – to some sort of beggar – beggar was going around, and a beggar family. And, uh – so the mother has made a little soup – they boil a little water, and put barley flour – pour that on it, and made this soup. And that’s the only they have dinner to eat. So mother was going somewhere, and uh – the barley – the soup with the barley flour started overflowing, you know? So the little boy – must be like about 3 or a little after – maybe about between 2 and 3 – he doesn’t know what to do. He took out the belt which tied his shoe up – in Tibetan culture, instead of having a shoelace here, they have a long thing up, and they tie it here. [40:06] So he took the shoelace off and tied this pot. And the pot was tied completely like this – and without breaking. I mean – that’s true, huh? You can even see it, even – they kept it in exhibit; I even saw it. So that is the Reting Rinpoche who did that, when he was a little over three years. [chuckles] Mother went out, and he tied that up, because – going – they only had that thing to eat. So he sees it going out, and doesn’t know how to stop it, so he tied that up. Tied it up. [laughs]

So that’s there. And also as a young kid, he walked on the stone – walked on the stone, and footprints was there. And all these I kept. But when he became a regent at that time, at that age, he was very happy-go-lucky, and very, very irresponsible – totally irresponsible. As far as a political leader is concerned, you have – as an excuse – a student of history, when they look back – he’s totally irresponsible. Totally. But he took one responsibility – that is, to find correct, unmistakable reincarnation of Dalai Lama. That, he took personal responsibility. And he really did it. With a lot of aughts. (word? [41:37]) A lot of aughts. Aughts. And so much difficult – because Prime Minister is uh totally against selection of the present Dalai Lama, because one of his nephew was the number two candidate in the list and all sorts of things – there are a lot of aughts there. But he really did stood against, and he did manage to get through, making sure the correct Dalai Lama ascended. (word? [42:10]) That is Reting Rinpoche’s biggest achievement of Regent of Tibet. So I can look at that as history – as student of history, today. Otherwise, he is totally irresponsible! Totally! The cabinet was meeting; they wanted a reporting, something going – one of his – ah – what? - his ah – his sort-of points, where he should agree something. And they can’t go and see him – and the servants they don’t know what to say – the Regent’s servant says, “he’s still praying”. He’s not praying; he’s playing mahjongg up there! Or riding a horse somewhere, at the back [laughs] So the cabinet couldn’t get to see him for six days. [Laughs] Things like that, you know? There’s all sorts of funny things. He was totally irresponsible for that way. But Reting Rinpoche made a correct selection for this Dalai Lama. [43:00]

And he took number of measures – number of measures – and in particularly, he himself as a Regent took a journey to the south Tibet, where he started looking to the great lake. Which is considered to be the live lake of the Palden Llhamo – or the female protector – we call it “Great Mother of Earth”. So her life lake – that’s a lake – we call it “life lake”. So in that life lake, when you look at it, a lot of things you see in it. I mean, just look at and see it; there are a lot of things you have to do it, and you begin to see it. So the Reting Rinpoche went there – and he made a lot of preparations, and went with a big party to the south. I mean, you know – he’s a young Regent, very proud – so he has to have a four – two cabinet ministers accompanied, all the offices have to move, you know - I mean, you look in there – there’s a total extravaganza. So funny, but he went there. With all this he went, and he looked into the lake. And I don’t know how many days he spent. I think there were 14 days over the lake – near the lake. Actually, it is when you look in the lake, it’s not so easy. You have to be early morning; you have to be saying the prayers in the right above – the lake is a huge lake. I’ve never been there; I only saw the picture. I’ve not been myself in that lake. But it is between like four mountain – four huge mountains – it is in the center of that. So you have to be behind the the peak of the mountain, the other side, where you say the prayers. And then you have to cross the mountain down, and [45:00] then one by one – you don’t go two people together – it is, sort-of one individual have to go. And then if somebody else there, somebody else there, somebody else there, and have to hide behind some sort of rock – there’s a lot of rocks there – so behind a rock, and give out a watching them – that’s it. [45:10]

For the whole day – eight hours – they used to go on watching at the lake, that’s it. So if different people see the – different people – you may repeat that – day after day, day after day. I believe Reting Rinpoche once got 14 days in there. Keep on repeating. So what did he see? Is he found Tibetan alphabets. Ah – Ka – Ma. Ah – Ka – Ma. That’s it – he found four Tibetan alphabets – that’s all. Nothing else. Ah, Ka, and Ma. So he has no idea what it is, and so he come back with those four letters. And then try to analyze what it is. It is – actually, it a very clear. The Dalai Lama is born in the province called Amdo. And the Ah stand for Amdo. It’s sort-of actually the first letter of the province. Ka stand for the monastery there – Kundun (Tib? [46:25]) monastery. It is next to the Kundun monastery. So the Ka stand to the monastery next. And Ma – that’s one that I’ve forgot. I’m sorry. [Audience chuckles] There’s the Ma is there. What is that? It’s either one of the parents’s name, or something in the [inaudible [46:44]] – anyway – it’s a very difficult to know. But what happens is, they really looked for – Tibetans really looked for the true incarnation. They did not select one of their – the noble families, or the person with the powers – their relations – or their family members – or anything – they did not. Each one of them had equally powerful, important signs. Because each one of them are – at that time there are four or five very strong candidates. Each one of them happens to be very important incarnate lamas. Very important, you know. So they all have their own very outstanding signs. So everybody would think, “it may be the Dalai Lama” – right? Because that is the biggest king available [or “kid valuable”? 47:32] there. So but they push everything through. But the present one is completely far away from the power center, from the Lhasa. As a matter of [dropout – cassette ends? 47:56 – 48:15]

[GR] … from a very, very poor family. Not a wealthy family. Poor – very poor farmer. And that was like [unintelligible – “likable”? 48:35] So then of course lot of search parties went to various places and lead by incarnate lamas and the government officials, together and all this, to various places went. I will not go in detail in that. But then one party went to this direction – where Dalai Lama – the present Dalai Lama is born, in that direction. They went there. And when the search party actually went – there’s one incarnate lama from Sera monastery. And his party. So what they did is, they changed dress. The lama were dressed up like the servant, and they put the servant dress up like the incarnate lama, and the incarnate lama himself wore the servant dress, so went toward the family. So they – of course, the culture look for whoever is dressed better – they take them in their best room, right? So what they did, the family looked in there, and the somebody with the big – sort-of a yellow brocade robe, and somebody came. So they thought, “well, this is the big man.” So they took him inside the room – started pouring tea, and saying, “why you are here?” and talking to them. In the meanwhile, this incarnate lama himself was dressed up like a servant, sat in the kitchen and observing the kids – where they be, what their kids came, who is where or where is what! [laughs] So how many kids this family have; who is the – what is it. So looking for. And they found this young Dalai Lama. [50:20]

And so this incarnate lama touched this young Dalai Lama, and said, “do you recognize me?” And he say, “yes.” “And who am I?” He said, “Sera Akka” [Tib 50:29] So they – he doesn’t know. Actually, in their local dialect, “Akka” means “lama”. So, “Lama from Sera”. That were he are told – Sera Akka. So he came to him the next day, or maybe – actually, I had talked to the party who went – who selected the Dalai Lama. So all of them said there’s no question in their mind. This is it. They’ve seen so many of them. They’ve seen so many of them. But he said, “this is no question – this is the true Dalai Lama”. In their mind. But they can’t take that a granted. Also, they cannot declare as the Dalai Lama – they have no power or anything. But they – in their mind, they say there is no question from the first day. To he – he just pointed out to him, “and you’re Sera Akka” – Akka is Lama from Sera Monastery. So the family has no way of knowing it. And the family doesn’t even know the project for searching Dalai Lama – what they told is, they – they’re nearby some monastery, where some incarnate lama is they are looking for their reincarnation, and this-and-that. That’s what they told the servant to tell. The servant was sitting inside there, behaving like he is the lama looking for another lama. And the actual lama is in the kitchen and looking for this kid, and the kid told him, “you are the lama from Sera Monastery” So I mean – that’s – that’s it. For him there’s no more. But still, he’s not satisfied – he went through all other tests, and so on and forth, and found there’s no doubt. No doubt. [52:23]

And by about that time, there’s a tremendous political tension between the Chinese warlords of Sichuan Province at that time and Tibet. As well as the Chiang Kai-shek government and Tibet. So the Tibetans don’t want the Chinese authorities to know that they – our Dalai Lama they found in there. At the same time, the Chineses are very suspicious of it. What did really they find in there. So they selected three boys of – there’s a long story, I will not go. I mean – there’s a – if you are interested, you can read the Dalai Lama’s book, called, “My Land and My People”. I’m sure it’s mentioned in there clearly. [53:30]

So finally the Tibetans have to pay a lot of amount of money in the silver coins to the Chinese warlord to release the boy who will be the – one of the big candidates of the Dalai Lama – who – they kept on insisting, going to be one of the candidates out of seven or eight. They’re going to be one of them. Sort-of they kept on insisting on that level. So anyway, all this level, and finally the Dalai Lama was brought in to Lhasa – the capital of the Tibet. On the 26th of the October, 1939 – and with the coincident, it happens to be the day I was born. [laughs 54:17]

So that was that. And so then he was brought to – to Lhasa, and he did declare him the Dalai Lama – be the true Dalai Lama. Because in Tibet where there are the great lamas, oracles, everything is confirming this is the one – this is it. But they kept secret until they crossed from the Chinese border into Tibetan border. The day they they crossed Tibetan border, they declared, “this is Dalai Lama”. They waited ‘till then, anyway. So – I mean – there are a lot of interesting stories in between, so I will not go. [54:55]

And he came to central Tibet, and immediately enthrone him as the Dalai Lama. But he’s a young guy – a young boy there. And he – though he is manifestation of Avalokitesvara – or whatever it is – he is a human being. So in the incarnation rooms, if you are born as a human being, you have to be human being; you cannot be super-human being. If you are a supernatural person you’re a supernatural person – you’re not a human being. So that’s why – one of the reason why Dalai Lama kept on even today – to say, “I’m a simple Buddhist monk.” He always keep on saying, “I’m a simple Buddhist monk.” That means he’s not – not a supernatural being – that’s what he really mean it. “I’m a simple human being”, that’s what he meant. But since he’s a monk, so he can’t say, “I’m a simple human being” – “I’m a simple Buddhist monk” – he can go on saying that. [56:12]

So the young Dalai Lama as any human being has to be educated. Educated completely in the a great Tibetan tradition. And I tell you, he has the best teachers ever available. Okay? Ever available. At that time. The best teachers ever available. And Reting Rinpoche who happens to be the Regent, was the senior teacher, senior tutor, first. And Phakta Rinpoche [Tib 56:40] who was the Second Regent, who came as Second Regent was one of the best master available at that time. The Phakta Rinpoche was the junior teacher. And two assistant teachers – Ling Rinpoche and Tendzin Rinpoche [Tib 57:10] – I mean, the best available in Tibet, was he got it. So one of those best teachers, and the young Dalai Lama also, very very intelligent, and picking up very fast. [57:18]

My recollection – when I was a young kid – first recollection I have the Dalai Lama is when I was recognized as incarnate lama – and first time you have to go and see Dalai Lama – so I remember that. So – [laughs] it a funny rule – a funny rule the Tibetans have. The day when you are taken to see Dalai Lama you’re supposed to – some tea has been serving. I do not know why. The tea – whether you are offering to the Dalai Lama, or the Dalai Lama is offer to giving to you tea – I have no idea. I don’t know. But what you have to do, is you have to take the tea before Dalai Lama takes. [58:25] It’s a funny – there’s an old monk – I still remember with the man who [unintelligible - “did much a beer”? 58:32] – and he brought bring a teapot – and I have to sit like this, and they pour the tea – they put very little tea in my cup. And I have to carry my cup here, inside. So take it out like this, pour four millimeter. So you’re supposed to drink that, completely. He’s standing there. And I can’t – I don’t know whether a Chinese custom, or Tibetan custom, or whatever it is – they call it tuk sel [Tib 58:51] – Means, “there’s no poison” – in that. Actually. So – [laughs] [58:58]

So he will stand there, you know? Holding the – you’re supposed to drink that. It is boiling hot tea. So there’s no time, you know? And he will pour very little, luckily. I mean, there – if you – if you’re the grown-up man they treat – they pour you a full cup. Or maybe – so – I mean, they pour me very little. But you can’t – sort-of half you swallow, and half you poured it through here. [Audience laughs] I remember that! {Rinpoche laughs] Boiling down – could be, not only – boiling hot. But you’re not supposed to – hold that man, holding there for a long time. So somehow you drink it all, hold it inside – that’s what they told me, so that’s what it did it that. I remember the burning, the taste now. [Audience laughs] [1:00:01]

And uh – so immediately I put that – you sort-of – pour, and you clean your cup – you have to clean your bowl – and put it in some kind of napkin there – a slick napkin they give you. They – it’s always there. You roll it into that slick napkin, put it in your pocket, and do three prostrations, and you sit down. And then they will serve the tea to Dalai Lama. ‘Till all these over, the man will be standing there, holding it. So you have to do all very quick. So the hot tea – if you can’t drink it, you pour it in – [laughs] – and then – and the rule is a funny. The Dalai Lama will ask certain questions, and they said you are not supposed to answer; you are just supposed to bow down, like that. Sort-of, bow down, little bit. So he did ask certain questions, and I was kid – and you know [unintelligible 1:00:54] I forgot I was not supposed to answer. I said something, you know – [laughs, audience laughter] – and he kept on talking, and then what happened? Something like – he’s also young – about four years different – four or five years different – that much. So that is first incar – sort of meeting Dalai Lama I have recalled. [laughs] [1:01:33]

And ever since then, he recognized me, wherever he sees me – you know? He recognized. And whenever he – every time, every year, there is a big ceremonial journey of the Dalai Lama, ups and downs, from the Winter Palace to the Summer Palace, and Summer Palace to the Winter. He can go up and down quietly, but ceremonial they have to do twice in a year. So we’re all supposed to go there and stand in a line someday. Some old system they have. So every time he will see me and sort-of – he’s keeping carry – smile at me – and sort-of thing. Since then. So that’s uh – and then of course, we grow older, and we have a – means of contacting each other, and all this sort of thing, and the – then, incidentally, the great teachers of the Dalai Lama – later – the Thalung Tha Rinpoche [? Tib 1:02:26] resigned as – Reting Rinpoche immediately resigned as regent then, and Thalung Tha Rinpoche becomes the senior tutor, and His Holiness Ling Rinpoche [? Tib 1:02:37] becomes the junior tutor. And after a few years – by nineteen fifties – Thalung Tha resigned, and uh – and then Ling Rinpoche became the senior teacher, and Chogyal Rinpoche [? Tib 1:02:51] become the junior teacher. So all the three – Thalung Tha, Ling Rinpoche, and Chogyal Rinpoche – happens to be my teacher too. So – very fortunately, you know? So somehow, sort-of we have the contact, [‘come the info’? unclear 1:03:02]. And uh – so the funny thing is, the other day – when they declared His Holiness – as we know – the Nobel Peace Prize. And one of the station in Detroit called me, “have you ever seen Dalai Lama in your life?” He had to ask me. [laughs] And but “who is this, by the way?” you know. [laughs, audience laughs] So – “do you know him?” So that’s what they asked me. [laughs] [1:03:40]

So anyway, so the Dalai Lama also went through a study, just like any other monk. He had no – no exception at all. Except he has the best teachers available. and also best companions – the learned Geshes, and poets by selected – eight of them – have no other job except to go through whatever the – go to the teachers of the Dalai Lama. Whenever he’s learning something, he would then, after that, be debating with him, discussing with him, or sort-of giving drill in his educational training. There are eight selected people. I mean, they are really best, throughout they select. So – except he has the best companions, otherwise, he had nothing special he have to do, through like everything. And also the exams that he has to take – afterwards, after the study is over, the exams he have to take is also like – just like that of any other Geshes, even more difficult, sometimes. Any other Geshes, he have to take very difficult exams. So though he’s lucky to pass through – whether he did it well or not well – but lucky he passed through. However, very, very difficult exams he have to undergo. [? 1:05:38]

I do remember that he has – he have not only to take exams in Drepung, but also in Sera and in Ganden, and in Malum [Tib? 1:05:50] together – combined together. There were four times, he have to take, in the – within the year. So I do remember when he came to Drepung monastery, where the – where he is taking the exams. And one of the very well known teacher, at that time is called – one of the – lama called Tsugai Lama [? Tib 1:06:13] He is a very proud geshe. Very very proud geshe. An extremely proud geshe. I mean, almost everybody, he will say, “ah, this fellow knows nothing!” Almost everybody, he will say, “this fellow knows nothing”. Actually, Tsugai Lama is a very funny one. Just remembering Tsugai Lama – he – in Drepung you are not supposed to do certain things. Tsugai Lama always does the opposite direction. Totally opposite. Legally not permitted to do in the monastery – he will do it. He has to do it. For example, you are not supposed to wear a certain type of shoe. You have to wear a very dry leather shoe, which – sort-of – wide, one little piece – which you have to wear it. He will never wear it – that – he never wear it. And there’s a very expensive brocade shoe, which is not allowed to wear – it’s the official – high ranking officials in government wear it. He will definitely wear that. [laughter]

And you are not supposed to wear any slip at all. No brocade slip at all. Tsugai Lama definitely wear one, up to here. And he can’t go outside his room, his house. He has big house. Anyway, he became later abbot. And then you are not supposed to wear certain hats. Then he wears one very sharp yellow hat, standing straight. Not like this – this one, at least have a – you know, little hub like this. His is completely straight like this. And he call it’s the “Proud Pandit Hat”. “Pandit” in Hindi language – Sanskrit language is, “Great Scholar”. So he said is “Proud Great Scholar’s Hat” – he pointed out that. And that is Tsugai Lama – he’s very proud. Any other teachers on – many of my teachers are – somehow I never had teachings from Tsugai Lama at all, because he’s too proud. So I have a problem with that – but – but I’ll tell you, almost definitely 90% of the Drepung monks – which may be over 10,000 – are student of Tsugai Lama – more or less. But I never had teachings from him, because he’s too proud for me. So any – all the great teachers that are – are all of them, he would say, “ah!” - you know? Everything is, “Ah!” Even towards Ling Rinpoche, until now he was, “Ah! What does these fellows know? They are little kid – maybe a young lama, and then they’ll be named something, and they had a big name. so that’s what they have. What do they know? So I – I have to debate them. I can make them do anything. Say anything!” [laughs]

[1:09:13]

That’s what Tsugai Lama is. But I heard Tsugai Lama talking – he said, “hey, this Dalai Lama really knows something”. He really says, “hey, this Dalai Lama really knows something”. I mean, that’s what he was talking, you know? He is one of the debaters they have – selected debaters – so he – I mean he really didn’t do very detailed debate, but he – and afterwards, he said, “hey, this little kid knows something”. That’s what really he said – “this little kid knows something”. “He’s begin to pick up very well.” That’s what he said – “begin to” – [laughs]

[1:09:48]

Anyway, so he’s very learned. The Dalai Lama become very learned at uh – because of those great teachers, because of his being the – a reincarnation of Avalokitesvara – whatever it is! All of them count together. But he has really become a great scholar. And then unfortunately, by age of 16 – I think – 16 or 17 – the Chinese took over Tibet. The Chinese Communists took over Tibet. And by that time, the Tibetan politics is develop – normally the Dalai Lamas will never take over their political power before they become 18, at least. Some may take it in 20’s, but uh – but never been in before 18. Never been before. So this one has to take it by about 16 – and he have to take. And that also very bad condition – the east Tibet – the Governor’s seat in East Tibet – Chamdo ([tib – Kham? 1:11:06] was already lost. And the world outside has said Tibet is part of – integral part of China, and uh – all these condition – and uh the Regents – the Thakpa Rinpoche [Tib ? 1:11:26] – in his mind, he said, he would like to continue. He said, “it’s a very bad time; he would like to continue. He would see whatever the condition may go; he will continue as a Regent. Whenever these conditions settle down, he would like to handle – hand it over to Dalai Lama.

[1:12:01]

But all the officials in Tibet and the public is totally against the Regent. And they said, “now is the time the Dalai Lama have to take over”. So it is public demanding. So the Regent said, “okay, fine; I’m happy to quit”. So that’s exactly what happened. And he took over at age of 16.

Since age of 16 – the young kid of 16 – have to deal with a very well matured, seasoned politicians – diplomats like Mao Tse Tung and Cho En Lai and Jawaharlal Nehru. Um – it is very tricky – and very difficulty – but somehow, he managed. He managed to talk to the Chinese. And tried to remain Tibetan and Chinese peacefully together for ten years. The Chinese kept on postponing the – what they call it the – um – they call it the – they call it “liberation” – [laughs, audience laughs] – they said, “we postponed the liberation” – they kept on postponing, two years, two years, two years, and ten years. They kept on postponed it.

[1:13:25]

So anyway, that is His Holiness – he had dealt – I mean, as a kid – I have to dealt – like a enemy – of Mao Tse Tung. Yet talking. You know? And he had pursued it – this non-violence movement – “The Politics of Compassion”. Started from the – the16 years old. Against Mao Tse Tung, Cho En Lai – and actually, it’s a very interesting – in that kid – Mao Tse Tung first thought the Dalai Lama will never be able to talk and negotiate - and when he went there in China and started talking, and he said – I mean, he thought all the Ministers going to talk and not him. But actually he is the one who is negotiating. And the Mao actually told him – actually, His Holiness once mentioned to me – Mao Tse Tung told him, “you are a very bright kid – you know that” – Mao told him. “But Buddhism is poison” – and that was shocking to His Holiness. He really told, “Buddhism is a poison. There’s a this thing called spiritual Buddhism, is a religion – that is a poison. You get away from that”. That’s what he told.

[1:14:52]

Mao really thought – he sort-of – he know Dalai Lama very well, you know? He told him that. So His Holiness also has hope after hope that he can negotiate with Mao and Cho En Lai – he find much easier to negotiate with Mao and Cho En Lai than that of local Chinese official in Tibet. So whenever he had much more difficulty, he go to Beijing and negotiate with them. So he found much more easier to deal with them than the local officials. So he did that, and never indulged in the violence. And that is a principle in His Holiness’s policy. And he sort-of you know – his idea is, “You say, well, it does – it really there’s a way. And this really should be based on the love, compassion and truth, rather than making ones will imposing over others”. Or – or things like that.

[1:16:05]

So we’re really very happy and proud that His Holiness did receive very deserving case of a – deserving reward of a – what is it?

[Student] Nobel

[GR] Nobel Peace Prize – yeah. And we sort-of – really, not only His Holiness has received, but it’s a sort-of a recognition for the Tibetans, who have been fighting in their own way for their land. Um – I mean, America is a great society, so I’m really happy to be here – sort-of adopted. Otherwise, we were kicked out of our own land, and there’s no place. There are 80,000 Tibetans in India, still cannot become Indian citizens, still. They’re not Indian citizens; they’re still refugees in India. And all these sort of things, and they are. America’s a great society, they sort-of adopt everything, so it’s okay here. [laughs] But otherwise you know, it’s that condition there. And the Tibetans in Tibet are still suffering tremendously. Still suffering tremendously. And we all know. Is not a subject of tonight’s talk, anyway.

[1:17:34]

So we’re very proud, and thought that sort-of world recognition – so I was telling is – this is one of the good news we ever received in 30 years. [laughs] So anyway, it is not that His Holiness is receiving the award, but I think it is the Tibetans do receive – did receive some kind of world recognition. And um – and that’s why – and that’s what we are very happy – and believe me about that – about it – and the then the – the one of the Detroit news the other day asked me, “when did you see him the last time?” So I said, “a couple of days ago, in New York”, and before that, and we had a very – [breaks thought]

[1:18:39]

We went to see His Holiness when I was in India, and Matt was with me. Matthew. And we went together to see His Holiness. And he starts talking. And he’s wearing the golden earring, right? So His Holiness asks Matt, “What is the significance of that earring?” - would you like to talk?

[1:19:08]

[Student] that’s okay [Rinpoche laughs, audience laughs]

[GR] And he said, “nothing – there’s no significance” Nothing special significance. The next question, he said, “do you have a girlfriend?” [laughs, audience laughs]

[1:19:19]

So anyway – so whenever you see – there’s a very special quality with His Holiness. That is, definitely. Whenever, whatever, whoever it may be – you go see with the Dalai Lama, you really forget your problems totally for at least one hour. And you gain tremendous peace. Tremendous peaceful. And that effect – that is definitely Avalokitesvara effect. And everybody experienced that. I’m sure those who seen His Holiness before will know – will accept that.

So that is Dalai Lama, and we are very fortunate to have Dalai Lama as Tibetan leader. And I’m very happy to be able to talk about His Holiness tonight – and I guess that’s all about I have to say tonight. And if you have any questions, I’ll be more than happy to answer.

[1:20:40]

[GR] Yes, sir.

[Student] I thought in the beginning you said he had to receive the Nobel Prize? Ia there any …

[1:20:46]

[sound of mic switching - loud garbled sounds]

[1:20:58]

[GR] Huh? I don’t think it’s a burden. And you know – if you remember that in one of his interviews, he said [Tibetan 1:20:56] or something – he said, “actually everybody is” – “has the” – what did he say? “Everybody …”

[Student] “has the ability – to win a Nobel Prize”

[GR] what did he say? that one?

[Another Student] [unintelligible] “… anyone who wants to win the Nobel Peace Prize has to develop their good qualities”

[GR] He said, “everybody’s eligible” – everybody’s eligible to receive the Nobel Peace Prize, but you have to develop your good quality to get that. [laughs] That’s it. I don’t think there is any burden, and he said he’s happy to receive. And he said, “sense of responsibility” – and that’s what he said, I think. So – I don’t think that there’s any obligation or – actually, it was the Gandhi-ji – the earlier – in the – in in India – the movement of non-violent started with the Gandhi-ji, and now of course His Holiness is picking up [unintelligible 1:22:25] the non-violence movement. It’s a very very powerful weapon, I’ll tell you. That is really true. It’s much more powerful than the gun power. The gun doesn’t have that much power, that the non-violence has. Really, no way. No way. There’s no comparison. Non-violence is much more powerful than weapon, or atomic bombs. Definitely. The bombs can destroy the body, and the non-violence attacks the mind. It’s very powerful. Very powerful. Yes?

[pauses]

Well, if there is no other questions, I – we may have some announcements to make tonight, of course. [1:23:23]

[Announcements]