Archive Result

Soundfile 19891209GRCHLR2

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Chicago

Topic Lam Rim

Transcriber Dimitri Ehrlich

Date 1/1/23

[audience asks question about it decreases your good deeds and makes yourself and others

impure through no fault of yours]

I don’t think Buddhas and Bodhisattvas will do something to harm another being.

[audience: I said Inadvertently.]

What does that mean? I’m sorry, I don’t know English. What does inadvertently mean?

[audience: without knowing, without conscious intention.]

I don’t think Buddhas will do it without conscious intention, anything at all. If they do it, they are

not Buddhas. Yeah. We are putting a limitation on the Buddha.

[audience: Also Bodhisattvas.]

Maybe. Possible. So what happened?

[audience: Would they still take action, if you’re talking about someone they dislike, would they

still not take some direct action to attempt to remedy that situation or not?]

They will take direction to what?

[audience: To attempt a situation that caused harm to another person.]

Yeah, they will try. They will try. They will try whatever is possible, and–

[audience: They wouldn't just avoid somebody they didn’t like?]

They don’t avoid. They will try. But when they can’t help it and then they avoid. Why? Because

they are wasting their time. Because they are neither going to be help to that individual nor

going to benefit others–you could have benefited others with that time. So they’ll try and they

will postpone for the time being, if they can’t help it.

That’s what it is. You don’t give up. But they postpone for the time being.

OK, now the next, what is it? Oh yeah, this has some notes I should really go through it,

otherwise it will be incomplete. So, when we recognize—advices continue.

So when you really look into those delusions and when the delusions grow within our mind,

immediately, what shall we do? What will we have to do?

Recognize. There you go. Recognize as real enemy. Recognize as real enemy here. OK the

sentient beings, the beings are not enemy. The person and people are, whoever may be

whatever they’re trying to do, they are no enemy. But the delusions are. Because delusions

really either you and other are totally common in the delusions.

So the Bhodisattvaaryachara about this, on this point it goes beyond this, and goes and said,

in case, if all the gods, the samsaric gods and demi-gods, and all the sentient, all the people,

everybody, if they become my enemy, if all of them become my enemy, but none of them can

take me into the lower realms. Even all the sentient beings become my enemy they cannot

take me into the lower realms.

Did you get it? But the powerful enemy of this delusion, will destroy me completely.

Powerful delusion will destroy me completely, So what do you do? Avoid.

The moment in grow, immediately recognize not only recognize as delusion but recognize as

powerful enemy. So try to get away from it. Try to avoid. This is the real enemy.

OK?

Like say, ordinary, what we call human beings, sometimes irritated and we call them enemies.

And some of them, even, you try to sort of, you know, recons–what you call it? Reconcile. If

you try to reconcile? Ehh, it works. Unless the person is crazy. So it works. But the delusions

you cannot reconcile at all. If you try to reconcile the delusions, and sure you’re going to be

loser.

These delusions made us to have problems today. We have experienced tremendous amount

of pain, misery, problems before and we experiencing today, and we sure to experience in the

future. So ultimately, truly speaking, who makes us to be in samsara? Who makes us suffer?

Our delusions. Not me. My delusions. Me? A pure person. But the delusions make us to be

circle. They will come and appear in us in the form of anything. In the form of habitual patterns.

In the form of addiction. In the form of self-protection. In the form of self-respect. In the form of

best solution. In the form of no choice. Yeah. In the form of no choice. In the form of no choice.

Any possible excuse that, whatever can get it. The delusions will come in that way.

[audience: can you make a distinction between delusion and self-respect–delusion can come

in the form of self respectÉ]

Oh yeah. Because you know, ÒI have to protect myself, I have to respect myself, so I have to

fight, I can’t help it, I have to fight, because it’s my self respect.Ó

[audience: What’s the difference between that and having no self respect?]

Well, you can have self respect, you don’t have to go for the delusions.

If you don’t have delusions, the self is beautiful. There’s no problem, the delusions really are

the one that’s making the problem. You don’t recognize that, you don't recognize that, and you

go in the beyond and started blaming all sides, and then you know, ÒI have to earn my

self-respect, so I have to fight, I have to lie, and I have to cheat, I have to do this and do that,

just to gain some respect.Ó Delusions will come in any form, any way they can get you,

whatever the manner, there's no one way of telling you delusions will really get you this way,

there is no blanket sort of way, they really use anything, anything that’s possible.

[Audience: is the desire not to suffer valid, that depends on self-respect.]

I did not say you should not have self respect. Don’t misunderstand me, ok. You should

definitely have self respect. That does not mean ino order to have your self respect you should

go beyond your limit, that’s what it is.

Within the truth, yes, to honor your self respect, why not. But you can't go beyond that and

indulge in all sorts of things, delusions normally take you, normally deteriorate your view,

normally deteriorate your sort of perceiving truth, that’s what delusion is, really.

[audience: (starts to ask question)]

OK, excuse me, I have to go through. Excuse me, you have asked a lot of questions. OK, I’m

sorry but I have to cut you, OK? OK.

Now what is it? Where are we? I’m lost, too.

Turn away as much as possible. And we’re still talking about the consequences of the

delusions, right?

The Kapampa lamas, there is a teaching on this by Kadampa lama, this is so important, I don’t

want to miss it. Kadampa lamas said, you know, I don’t know whether it is western system it

works same, way or not, the Tibetan system, if you wanted to express your dislike, you look at

side. Do you do that in the west? You do that?

[audience: You look at something sideways.]

Ok, so what we call it, there is a technical name for that, we call it, Òshow the side,

Ònot straight, show the side. Look sideways.Ó OK. Beware of that look. Look aside.

The Kadampa advice is, look sideways at the delusions and try to be as harmful as possible .

Try to be so mean as possible to the delusions. Mean and harmful. And look straight to the

beings and be helpful as much as possible. OK? I do not know how to put nicely in English. I

have to ask Ginsberg how to do that. Allen Ginsberg. Probably, he will probably have some

beautiful way to put that.

That is the advice of the Kadampa lamas on that. Another thing, there’s a Geshe Ben Gungyal,

one called Geshe Ben, I’m sure you are all familiar, one of the Kadampa lamas. Geshe Ben is

very interesting person. Ban Gungyal. He was the first–he have family, and he have land

where he grows crops and all this, and later he has a fight with the family, quarrels with them,

and he got divorced, lost his wife, lost his children. But he kept the land and the house, kicked

them all out. Kicked them all out! And finally Geshe Ben Gungyal is become a thief. And he

used to go and steal things from the people round, at night. And later on he’s become more

than that. He’s become a robber, and uh, sit up the mountains and get the travelers and rob

them all! So it is interesting. One of Ben Gungyal’s talks, he says, earlier, when I did not

recognize the delusions as the enemy, so I used to, he said, I used to carry the [unclear

Tibetan words] the arrows and sword and spear. Not like this day, nowadays, think like the

metal American frame, not like these days. Soi he said, during the day time, I used to carry

those three things, that is sword, arrow and spear, all three things, and sit on the mountain top

where the difficulty path, some difficult path, that’s where they attack, and at night I used to go

in the villages and steal things but he could not feed his one mouth by two hands. But later

when I recognized the delusions as enemy and I run away from these three things, this arrows,

sword and spear, and foods could not find my mouth.

Did you get it?

[audience: no.]

Before I used to work so hard, I used to carry all these weapons, I used to grow food, I used to

rob people, I go and steal, but I could not find enough food to feed my mouth. Did you get that?

Now when I recognize delusions as my enemy, and I run away from that, now the foods could

not find my mouth. Because he’s getting so much everywhere, everybody wants to give it to

you. Not only food could find it, there are more food waiting there, more food than what he

managed to eat;. That is the culture again. A lot of food is looking for his mouth. Does that

make sense now? Did you get it?

Now what Ben Gungyal says on here, he says, what do I do? He says, I now throw the spear

out, hitting the sentient beings, I throw that away. But I’m carrying awareness spear and

waiting at the door of my mind to catch the delusions.

When the delusions are working hard, I work hard. When they relax, I relax.

[audience: so you ambush the delusions.]

Yeah. That’s what the Ben Gungyal says. Says, before he used to ambush the travelers. Now

I’m ambushing the delusions. OK?

What’s done? Alright, if all the food’s done, let’s eat. Let see if the mouth finds food or food

finds the mouth.

[BREAK]

OK, now, we have a talk about Geshe Ben, that’s Ben, how do you spell it? Ben.

OK, so that’s about Geshe Ben’s story, now let’s go on the second. What is second, Aura?

[audience: how to develop karma.]

I didn’t hear from Aura. I heard from Matt.

[audience: the second one was how to develop karma.]

OK, now, how does we develop karma? With that you have to have two divisions.

Now this is difficult. In Tibetan it goes like Semba and Sampa. [speaks more Tibetan]

OK, There’s thought karma and action karma. Those of who you know Tibetan, normally the

division is [speaks Tibetan].

Those who you know half-Tibetan, you think it is the same word, and if you’re thinking it is the

same word it shows you don’t know. Because the past tense of the sem is sempa.

Anyway.

OK, so now what is this, the karma of thought?

So, what is that What is that? Karma of thought.

Thought. Karma of thought.

Rachel?

[audience: resulting from your intentions?]

Ok, you.

[audience: You have thought, that creates karma.]

Like what? Give me example.

[audience: Like wishing–]

Wishing is a different word. Wishing is different thing. It is about time for you to say something.

You’re shaking head.

[audience: Like having the feeling of animosity toward someone, very negative karma.]

I cannot deny that butÉ OK, let me talk a little bit so that it can make a little more sense.

When the moment you talk about karma one thing you have to remember, you’re not

immediately thinking of bad karma at all. There are good karmas, there are neutral karmas,

too, OK. OK, soÉ

Whether it is good or bad or neutral karma, whatever it is, mind, pre action–pre action mind,

call it motivation or mind which makes you to do something, which sort of compels you to do

something, you know what I mean? Those mind are–now for example, if you wanna said, if

you wanna use a harsh word to somebody, directed toward somebody, so you have a thought

before you use the word, you have a thought: it said, Òoh, I have to do that,Ó or ÒI like to do

that,Ó or sort of ÒI’m forced to do that,Ó some sort of thought which makes you to use those

words, before you time the words. OK.

Are you with me? You’re not. You’re stuck.

Why you’re looking like that?

[audience: I don’t feel stuck.]

OK Good. If you’re not, then it’s fine. When you look at it, you give me the look that, I’m stuck.

That look! OK. Anyway, that mind which sort of you know, makes you to act through body or

speech, which sort of you know mental thing makes you to do, OK? That is the mental

category is one and then there is action category is another one. Because of that mind you

either use some harsh words, or you hit, either physical or speech. Which follows.

[audience: Intention, Rinpoche? I intend to do that?]

Yeah, wellÉ I don;t the word intent means you sort of making decision and you–, right, but

sometimes without any intention, but some kind of immediate mind goes before you say or hit,

thought we like to say automatic reaction but you have given example earlier of doctor hits on

knee and leg goes up, gives sort of automatic, but even though automatic but there is a mind

which also without realizing that happens, you know. If that mind, immediately before that

when the doctor hits here and the leg moves right. But if there is a mind that doesn’t

correspond that immediately and doesn’t move, no matter how many doctors keep on kicking

it, it won’t move.

[audience: Actually, that’s not true in this case. It’s called a reflex arc.]

I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. But if there is mind, mental functioning, therefore

definitely. You’re only seeing it as a physical thing, but it has to be. Has to be. The body mind

has to function, yeah other it is impossible. Impossible.

So anyway, the thought part of it intentionally or unintentionally, I have to say those things, that

type of thing is one. They really talking about the thought karma and then the action.

According to the Abhidharmakosa they even say, the thoughts are the pre action and the

action by the body and speech will be followed after the thought action. Abhidharmakosa says

that. I’m not very sure if there is time for there to be a cause and effect functioning in there or

not. But still there is definitely pre thought there for sure. Anyway, when you have some sort of

division, the mental karma and physical karma, if you like to say it, or some time like that you

should say mental, which is no physical involvement only mind alone does, that is the mental

karma. And mental karma followed by the physical thing becomes the physical karma.

Is that OK, Aura? Huh?

[audience: Well if physical karma includes speech.]

Well speech is not physical. What do you say? Question. Mental action is action,, too.

[audience: Is one category more serious than the other?]

No. Try to get some kind of idea in English.

[audience: But if you have the thought that you're going to speak harsh words but you don;t

speak the harsh words, you create mental karma but no physical karma. Is one category more

serious?]

No, it’s just different. Mental karmas are equally heavy. Equally heavy, yeah.

OK, so then how does that grow? The delusions grow unlucky karma. Anyway, you sort of

divided karma into three categories, sort of unfortunate karma, fortunate karma and lucky

karma, or sometimes also called that unshakeable karma, they also call it. Unshaking karma.

The divisions become more clear when you come down. So, like say, for the benefit of this life

alone, say you indulge into the killing etc. etc. etc, will be the example of unfortunate karma.

And why is this called unfortunate karma? Because the result of this karma will directly

become the lower realm birth. OK?

Then we have the fortunate karma. Fortunate karma is the–OK, now this is one example,

Unfortunate karma, and then you have fortunate karma, the fortunate karma is the karma

which seeks the happiness in future life. Which brings like samsaric gods’ realm life or even

human rebirth. OK. Even human rebirth and all this, this type of karmas are categorized as

fortunate karma. It is fortunate it will bring good life but it is not the right type for us. OK?

OK?

Is that clear to you? Aura?

Now, what is third karma?

Unshakeable. What does that do?

That also we have to divide it into two. We are getting little more divisions, little more dividing

it. OK.

Now what does lucky karma and we seek happiness and pleasure in our future lives, so that

mind is still seeking happiness and pleasure something with external it.

Now when you talk about unshakable karma here, you also dislike it, even seeking pleasure

and happiness in future life, then you sort of the external pleasure, you’re no longer interested

and then you are interested in internal harmony, or rather samadhi or the meditative pleasure

this internal mental pleasure, and interest on those and as a result of this, what does that

bring? That brings, the samadhi number one to threeÉ

[audience: contemplation, concentrated absorption]

Anyway, there are 17 different stages in the samsaric level, so we are dealing with those. So

when we are talking about samsaric gods, we are talking about god level, level of the gods

what we can see and hear and possible. So here we are going beyond that. Beyond that.

Here we are going beyond that, so from the first to the third level of samadhi state of god, this

is because they have–they are no longer interested, even the external pleasures or anything,

so they are only seeking the internal mental harmony and all this. That’s why up to the third

level.

So after some time, even the individual will fed up with even the mental harmony and mental

pleasure stop so then you seek stable, neither too much pleasure, no problems but sort of

mental stabilization, not so much emphasized on the pleasure-ness but yet sort of stabilizing.

Did I make clear?

Ok so what does that bring? That brings ummÉ the fourth level samadhi and above.

So fourth level samadhi is the highest, the birth with form. Then after that, it becomes formless.

When you talk about 17 different stages within samsara.

[audience: unclear]

They are all in samsara. They are all in the desire realm, even 17, don;t argue, the 17 is all

desire realm, people get confused. Formless is the desire realm. Not in those three realms, like

form and formless, desire realm that is formless desire realm. But when you talk about

samsaric as form, desire realm and non-samaric, this is samsaric. OK.

So anyway, there are 4 formless realms. All this unshakeable karma will become, all this

different gods levels. OK?

So why these are called unshakeable? Because very difficult to change in that level. Very

difficult to change. But fortunate karma and unfortunate karma, it is possible to change. For

example, let’s say unfortunate karma. Sayt, if somebody died and that person, individual

person is going to take rebirth in lower realms. And not only they're going to take rebirth in the

lower realms, even the lower realm is already established, the bardo is informed.

And already lower realm bardo. The bardo has lower realm bardo, and higher realm bardo,

there’s a lot of different bardos. The lower realm bardo is already formed, established.

Even then, there is possibility to change. By power of some good yoga, yogis, or yoginis, or

some great master, some by power of matra or ritual, which is possible to intervene, even from

that bardo level, which the person already established to be, let’s say to be taking rebirth in hell

realm, and hell realm bardo is already established, however by the power of rituals and by the

power of different things it can change.

But if the karma connected to the unshakeable karma, just before dying, if connected to

unshakable karma–that’s why this is called unshakeable karma. Called unshakeable karma.

Named as unshakeable.

[Tibetan words unclear] and above, this first samadi and above level, and the moment the

person, the previous person has died there, and if they are taking bardo shape in that manner,

or just before the death it somehow connected to that karmic of taking rebirth in the form or

formless, somewhere. But if you connected with the form bardo, you have to go to that level. If

the formless bardo it will be happen then and there itself, where you die, there itself, the

formless bardo has been sort of established there.

I remember this very clearly, one of my teachers named [name unclear] who was long-time

abbot of Loseling, very long time, really different. Normally Loseling abbot will remain like six

years, or at most two times, 12 years. [name unclear] remained for something like 22 years, he

came to India and that’s where he keep on remaining. So Gen used to and all of a sudden, gen

asked,, says, Rinpoche, where does the formless bardo start. And I started looking up, and

you’re looking up. And I remember that. He said, it doesn’t start up there. It starts here.

Because you know, I don’t have the answer. All of a sudden. It was in Delhi. All of a sudden.

Sort of middle of something else, some telephone conversation, suddenly he said, where does

the formless realm start. I sort of looked up. He said look at you, you’re looking up. It doesn’t

start there, it’s here. The form bardos has to go up. The formless–I was debating in my–

[tape cut off]

So all these formless and form bardos are both changeable. Once the person who’s dying, it’s

some sort of death mind connected to that karma, that’s why it’s called unshakeable karma.

Does that make sense to you all? What about you? Are you all listening? Or too tired? Or too

much food?

[audience: unclear]

OK, which can be changed–now, let’s make easy this way. There’s two karmas. Actually,

karma is definite. Remember? Once karma started giving you result, no matter what you do,

you can’t change at all. That’s general karma. There are four rules, remember?

Now within that. One karma–let’s say, if I die, If i’m going to take rebirth into lower realm, OK,

rebirth in lower realm, if I’m going to take rebirth in lower realm, and say I died and I

established, I experienced, I established by bardo, of lower realm bardo, then if I establish

lower realm bardo, even then there’s room for me to change that karma.

[audience: that’s where I was confused because you said it would be by virtue of someone

else doing rituals? Someone else change my karma?]

It’s not changing karma. There’s still room for reconnect different karma, by praying by your

teachers or by powerful person through rituals, or you know, by the great yidams, that’s why

we do a lot of those yidam practices, we sort of pray at the time when the bardo comes we will

meet them there and they will take you, and all this sort of thing, which is the–which is

possible.

So even after forming the lower realm bardo, you can still change it. The next immediate birth

could have been different. There’s room.

That’s one of the reason why this 49 days period it becomes important, and every seventh day

it becomes important: because every seventh day there’s some small death there, in the

bardo, the fellow in bardo has a small death every seventh day.

So that’s why every seventh day becomes important for the dead person, the person who died.

And within the 49 days, we somehow do, I mean like Tibetan culture if you look, if somebody

dies in the house you try to indulge some kind of guru work, some guru activity, for 49 days.

And then every 7th day, like say if the person passed away on Saturday, by then the Friday it

becomes special day. Like a day ahead. Not saturday to Saturday, but Saturday to Friday. Like

that. If it’s third, then the second day becomes important day. So because of the bardo period

there’s a small death.

So there’s room, when you have the small death. Let’s say if the person has a lower realm

bardo, and due to certain prayers and things like that, and it’s been possible to influence and

change and that second time when bardo is reborn, it’s a different bardo. So there’s room for

those. So in case if you’re connected with form level and formless level of the higher realm,

you can’t change it. So that’s why it’s called unshakeable.

[audience: question about whether every individual has a 49 day bardo]

Not necessarily, I’m not saying it is necessary. I’m not saying. I’m so glad you raised that, I’m

taking granted people will know that, it’s not necessary that people will spend 49 days, it’s not

necessary, but it is necessary to have a bardo. Bardo could be as short as this period [snaps]

or bardo could be 49 days. Not more than 49, not shorter than one second, one 75–they

divided his period [snaps] to 75 and one part of it.

[audience: Question about unshakeable karma and whether if someone commits the 5 heinous

crimes, there would be no bardo at all?]

I didn’t say that. Everything has bardo there.

[audience: So even if there’s unshakeable karma, there’s a bardo?]

Yes. There is [Tibetan word] the formless bardo is there. That’s why I told you, where does the

formless bardo start. Yeah, so there is bardo. But that bardo is not interchangeable with other

bardo.

[audience: So what about with these 5 limitless crimes?]

Well, technically, there is bardo. Sometimes they say there is not even time to have bardo, and

go straight away, it is sort of a little forceful way of presenting it but technically there is bardo.

OK? Good. So is it a little bit clear now? The division between the lucky karma, unlucky karma

and unshakeable kara. Oh so fortunate karma we use that word. We use the words fortunate

karma, unshakable karma.

[audience: What is the mechanism for connecting to the unshakeable karma? Is it entering the

state of samadhi?]

Is she completely confused?

[audience: No.]

Why not?

[audience: But she is confused.]

[laughter]

Are you just saying it just for sake of saying it? Or are you really saying it? Chris says not

confused, yet you are confused.

[audience: That’s very helpful, thanks. Are you not understanding the question.]

I’m tired.

[audience: It seems like the question is, the only way in which somebody connects with this

unshakeable kara is through a state of samadhi?]

Mmm-hmmm.

[audience: Would an example be beyond the 9th stage of shamata?]

All these dhyanas, dhyanas, these big meditations. So you know the problem here, do you

recognize, all these big long sitting meditations, doing this, the result of those long sitting

meditations will bring those things.

[audience: Do you have to die in samadhi to connect with this unshakeable karma?]

Do you have to die in samadhi? No. No. The person has a very strong samadhi karma, let’s

call it samadhi karma you carry, and when that person dies, then the result of those samadhi

will–they will give you good result, they have to give you good result, because it’s good work

but they don’t take you out of samadhi, so what they will do. they will give you very high level,

very high level, hierarchy birth within samsara.

[audience: you talked earlier about two divisions within unshakeable karma]

Yes, form and formless. OK, formless are even higher than form.

Now the point is, I’m hoping everybody is communicating, you know. Are we all together?

This is become little technical, and little more, it becomes little more, uhh, what you call it, I

don’t want to say philosophical, it’s not even philosophical, it is become a little academic.

So even here it’s very clearly mentioned [quotes in Tibetan]. The same thing what I said. Then

given Drom Rinpoche [quotes more in Tibetan]. Did you hear that?

[laughter]

You heard? Ok, Drom Rinpoche is the Atisha’s disciple, attendant, companion, whatever. The

senior most Kadampa lama. So Drom Rinpoche’s monastery is Reting Monastery. So what

Drom Rinpoche suggested is that all the people who are living in Reting Monastery, the monks

and the lay in the Reting, and particularly those Upasika we call it, not monks but lay people

with vows.

So Drom Rinpoche suggested all the Retings people there, like Upasika practitioners, share

their wallets, he suggested everybody become–sort of I don’t know what you call it.

[audience: Communal]

No, no, not only communal even the commune you can keep separate things.

[audience: well, communal can also be an adjective that has a sense of group sharing. Well it’s

like that, I used to live in a commune, I didn’t even own a pair of clothes, everything was

shared]

Yeah that’s like that, something like that. Everything shared. Kibbutz, right? What you call that?

More than commune. The CHinese introduced commune, but then communist, that’s different

commune. Alright.

So anyway, the Reting Rinpoche–same thing anyway– the same thing, earlier it

is known as Drom Rinpioche then later it is known as Reting Rinpoche because

he built Reting Monastery so then place named after person. So Reting

Rinpoche, as Drom Rinpoche, he suggested everybody share their wallet

together, everything belongs to everybody nobody has a thing, And the whole

idea of his doing this is when somebody dies there, and those who are

remaining, will be doing some kind of ritual and some kind of virtuous work so

that effect will carry to the dead person, those who died, because whatever their

usage, the usage of that wealth belongs to that person. And in the Tibetan

system, we do have a system called [Tibetan word unclear–Ngoden?] base of

dedication. [Tibetan word unclear: Ngoden?] This is one of the biggest, when

somebody dies–what we call it khorr, which is very difficult to digits. What is

khorr? You know the word? What does that mean?

[audience: it means–I mean I know the situation where it arises]

When I was traveling last year, in Summer, Matthew is Korr manager. It is very heavy thing. We

get a lot of gifts, Money, clothes–a lot of things, right? When person dies, somebody dies, they

say, Òthis is belongs to this person, that person, please pray and do this and do that.Ó

So what happens is this is become a very very heavy thing for you, if you misuse this, this

particular money or gift or whatever it is, if you misuse it, I mean it is really a tremendous

amount of heavy debt for whoever is misusing.

But if you use it properly it is good, beneficial for that person who dies. So this material, what

we call [Tibetan word unclear: Ngoden?] [Tibetan word unclear: Ngoden?], we categorize

[Tibetan word unclear: Ngoden?]--so the Reting Rinpioche’s suggestion for everybody sharing

together, then you don't have to give [Tibetan word unclear: Ngoden?] to anybody because

everything belongs to everybody so the whole monastery can pray and do all this, and you

have the same effect. So that’s why Reting Rinopiche did once, it didn’t last very long but, it’s

not going to work well. I think during Drom Rinpoche’s lifetime, they lasted. But anyway.

OK? That’s one way.

Another way, now suppose there are 4 form levels, and 4 formless levels. If you have created

karma to be reborn at the first form levelÉ if one created karma to be reborn on the first form

level, that karma can never be changed and become a part of taking rebirth in the second form

level, either. That’s why it’s again called unshakeable. If you have karma to be born as a form

level, it can never contribute to rebirth in the formless level, it doesn’t change. It doesn't even

contribute. NO. Doesn't do it. So that’s why it is called unshakeable.

That’s maybe too technical and too academic. So let’s forget it.

[audience: are you saying it’s impossible to change?]

Impossible. Doesn’t change. Alright. If the first form level karma goes, nothing else, that’s why

it’s called unshakeable.

[audience: So if you’re born with the unshakeable karma to be a maggot and you stay a

maggot for the rest of your lifetimes, what about the stuff about how everybody’s going to

reach enlightenment?]

No, you don’t reach enlightenment there, you stay there as long as this karma allows you to

stay there, one lifetime. Those lives doesn't have enlightenment at all. That particular life, yes.

Where are we now? [quotes in Tibetan] Now this Abidharmakhosha trying to prove it, how this

unshakeable mind works, maybe not be relevant to us so let us skip. Now, what

makes–[unclear] Excuse me. [laughs]

OK, so now why we are all talking about this? Just to give you a little idea about–is that

relevant to me? Probably not. Yes, you should know it. But is it really relevant? Might not be so

relevant about this unshakeable karma, form, formless, and all this, it might not be so relevant,

so now we are going to talk about relevant to us. So what is that?

So good karmas, that we are doing good works, brings, becomes fortunate karma or

unshakeable karma. Bad works we do, brings unfortunate karma. OK. How in hell am I going

to get out of samsara? That is relevant question.

Where am I going to end all this circle?

What I am going to get it to that, after all this? Alright, sometimes I go up and one lifetime up

there, and sometimes I go down, and one lifetime down there. Sometimes I come here, one

lifetime here, but where is all this leading me to?

Is this relevant question?

Like some other day, somebody’s asking, alright all these things happen with Gorbachev etc

whatever it is, now where are all these things leading to? Remember that, Aura? So that is

really question we ask ourselves. What is that leading us? Any answer? I give you answer.

Everybody too tired to give answer so let me give answer!

Over exhausted, too tired.

Any good or bad or work, whatever you do, any good or bad karma, whatever you created, if it

has no influence of either of the three principles–three principles of the path–you know what

are they?

Rachel?

[audience: I can’t remember.]

Wow.

Don’t tell me that. You gotta be joking!

I’m just joking. Try to give you a little hard time,

OK, somebody’s hiding.

Three principles of the path. Anybody, Any volunteers? No, Brenda, not you.

Al, go on.

[audience: renunciation, bhodimind, emptiness]

Is that correct or not? Rahcel?

[audience: I honestly don’t know]

How come? Oh, you came later, right? Oh, I’m so sorry. I’m sorry, this is a fault, sometimes I’m

taking for granted.

[audience: unclear]

You were there that time. No? Alright. Anyway, Three principles of the path is the key answer

right now. What are they? I call it determination to be free. Followed Alex Berzin here.

Determinationto be free, number one. I don’t like to use the word renunciation because then

you get completely different image in your head, and then we have to say, you don’t have to

give up this, you don’t have to give up that, I don;t mean that,, you have to explain it, so just

withdraw that word and use determination to be free. OK?

What is second?

[audience: bodhicitta]

What is bodhicitta? I don;t know that word. Is it English?

[audience: No, sanskrit]

You know sanskrit?

[audience: I know it when I see it.]

I’m joking. OK, how do we communicate to a general people, non-technical word, we should

be able to communicate to the people, the moment you use the word, they have to understand

something. You are the expert.

[audience: I’m not]

Well, you raised your hand.

[audience: compassion and loving kindness.]

Compassion and loving kindness. Yes.

[audience: unclear]

I don’t know. I’m not a translator. Lot of people use altruistic, lot of us just use sanskrit words

there. Doesn't matter whatever you use, but we need perfect understanding. Perfect

understanding that is–I mean, people here, I’m sure mostly everybody knows when you talk

about bodhicitta, everybody knows what it means. You know what bodhicitta means?

[audience: Me?]

Yeah, you seems to be the target here today.

[audience: I think so.]

You think so? Say it.

[audience: Well, it means awakened heart or mind, and I think of it as the desire and you could

say altruistic desire to free all living beings from samsara, including oneself.]

Mmmmm.

[audience: Are you asking me to comment on her definition?]

Mmm-hmmm.

[audience: I think she’s basically right, it’s the wish to attain enlightenment for the benefit of all

sentient beings.]

[audience: motivation for action that transforms the action into a cause for enlightenment]

Slow down, slow down.

[audience: The example that you gave was if you give food to an animal as a selfish person

that would not lead to enlightenment, but if you are a bodhisattva that same action could

become a cause that would lead to enlightenment.]

Rachel is becoming geshe-la now.

[laughter]

Yeah, I mean, she really got you there. No you are talking about effect of the bodhicitta on

bodhicitta, you are talking the effect.

[audience: that’s why you said I am going too fast, and I was jumping ahead]

Yeah, because I got a mouthful of tremendous Buddhism here.

[audience: does it have to contain an awareness of the cause of suffering]

I think Kathleen hit it on the point, but she didn’t explain it, she made it some kind of easy little

ball, thrown it like that, BOOM.

[laughter]

[audience: question about the difference between enlightenment and the result of

enlightenment–unclear]

Aura. I need to drink this water. Just elaborate a little more, make a little bit more elaborate.

[audience: the only thing I would say is that bodhicitta is like two prongs coming out of the

same source and one prong is the desire for enlightenment for yourself]

I question the words Òfor yourself.Ó I mean you desire.

[audience: You desire enlightenment and the other prong is to liberate others.]

To be for their service, obtaining enlightenment for their service. That’s the other prong.

[audience: the part I wasn’t getting is everybody was talking about love and compassion but

nobody was saying, wanting to be enlightened. The self has to be there. The desire to be of

service is inseparable from the achievement of enlightenment. You can only have ordinary

liberation]

Are you sure?

[audience: Yeah.]

Good! [laughs]

You need some proof for what you said. Quote something.

[laughs]

Probably Matt would help you to quote something. You want to borrow a quote?

[audience: I don’t know any quotes off hand.]

You have one? He’s a doctor you know.

[audience: Actually what just came to mind was [something in Hebrew] meaning if I forget you

Jerusalem, take my right hand.]

[much laughter]

Maitreya, in the Abhisamayalankara, has just two words [quotes in Tibetan] means bodhicitta is

for the others, seeking enlightenment.

SoÉ did you get it? Bodhicitta is for the others, seeking enlightenment. And then you go more

than that, Geshe Sonam Drakpa [name?] goes even beyond and even he gives the definition

of bodhicitta in the [mundane?] sense, the two pronged mind. That’s what Aura was saying.

The two-pronged mind.

[Audience: it’s a funny word, I used that word.]

The [mundane?] sense. Sort of two, T-W-OÉ or is it T-O-O? It’s not T-O-O for sure.

So anyway, two desire it has. It has desire of obtaining enlightenment and it also has dedicated

completely. So in other words, what for you want to obtain enlightenment? Because I want to

help and serve. Because of that. Sort of looking that way. That is a very brief definition. But

bodhicitta is going to come much more because our next retreat is, hopefully, going to spend

more time on the mahayana path. So therefore it is going to be bodhicitta.

I don’t think I will have time to read the Bodhisattvacharyavatara together but maybe essence

of it, somehow we’ll compile it a bit.

But Éso just give you a brief idea of that OK. That’s one thing.

Now determination to be free I don’t have to explain to you all now, I’m quite sure all of you

know well. Don’t you?

Madam Target?

[audience: I think that once you examine the conditions of your life and mind and think about

your actions and consequences and get some insight into the circular nature of samsara, the

more familiar you become with the endless circle of that, the more you desire to be free of it,

and then you seek ways to be free.]

You know what I heard? Look for [unclear]

[Audience: I said seek ways to do it]

You agree with that, Ed?

[audience: Yes and I would add that the piece that was news to me when I read it, is that it has

to being really exhausted with the world out there. There’s a sense of being tired and really

sure that it’s not out there. That’s part of the basis for your renunciation.]

I don’t like to use the word renunciation.

[audience: I know, but if you just say it’s a desire to be free, it’s like an option. It’s not like that,

it’s like you have looked and feel certain that what is important, isn’t out there. And that’s the

determination]

Dr. K like to smooch you.

OK, well that is from your heart, that is really a heart answer, I think far better than technical

answer. Don’t you agree?

Good.

And then forget about the perfect view, we don;t know. Third one, OK. So if we have either of

the influence of either of these, so whatever we do, now the effect, what Brenda was talking

about, giving food to animals or anything, generosity or patience or meditation, or whatever

you do, good thoughts, whatever you do, with influence of either this determination to be free

or the bhodimnd, or both. Whatever you do, the category of the karma completely changes. It

doesn't– it will not become neither an unfortunate karma, nor it's going to become a fortunate

karma, nor it’s going to be an unshakeable karma. It’s going to be a karma that brings you to

liberation. Liberates you

Liberate you. Is that a word?

[Audience: is there a name for that kind of karma? Karma of liberation?]

No. It doesn’t say it. It says leading out of samsara. OK?

Is that clear to all of us? You OK?

[audience: If any of the three principles are involved–

If influence

[audience: if any of the three principles influence–]

Influence means through thought, right?

[audience: then that karma will lead you–]

Whatever karma you create, it will lead you–

[audience: not of the three categories we’ve mentioned but–]

Another category, which leads you out of that, which really beginning to see the three levels,

Leading towards the three levels. OK? Good. So which now see, which now means how

important these three principle of the path. Thank you. If there is no influence of either of the

three– [tape ends]_