Archive Result

19901120GRAAQA

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Ann Arbor

Topic Question and Answer

Transcriber Roger Johnson

Date December 16, 2023

Since, uh, tonight here we have a mostly people who have been sort of long time around here so any difficulties and any questions that you have I think maybe we spend more time in that way maybe more useful. Anybody have any questions and difficulties?

Audience: I have a question about something you said a few weeks ago. We were talking about giving and receiving and you said, if I can remember exactly what you said, that when you receive more than you can digest that you must pay for it in blood in the next lifetime. I think that is an accurate quote. Do you remember that? I was wondering what you meant.

Rimpoche: I vaguely remember something like that I said. What I meant is generally a giving is a very, considered as a virtue – good work – one of the bodhisattva activities. And also considered an investment. You give, you receive. Generosity is the cause of a become uh wealthy. And, and so that is good work part of it. Now, from the receiving part of it, receiving there are two kinds, rather several different ways. Several different ways. What I’m referring to here is let’s say for the purpose of dharma, or for purpose of future life, or for purpose of just practice, people give generosity gift and for giving a person is very good. For the receiving person it is not necessarily the best. Uh, you receive today, that is fine. On the other hand, unless you have been able to properly digest, how will I use the word digest. If you cannot digest properly you have to pay for it.

0:03:33.2

You have to pay for it, you’ll pay for it in your probably next life. And uh so, so that means on flesh and blood you pay for it.

Audience: But I don’t understand what you mean “flesh and blood you pay for it.”

Rimpoche: Well, I don’t mean the next life you cut your flesh and give it and feed. I don’t mean that way. You have to feel the pain. You have to experience the pain. The pain will be on your physical as well as mental. So that is what I mean by paying flesh and blood. Do you need further clarification for that?

Audience: I think so. If receive more than you can digest you must pay the next life in pain.

Rimpoche: No. You have to pay in next life. While you are paying in next life it will cause you pain. So, the pain will be experienced you, me, in the physical or mental form, mental pain, in the physical or mental. Did you get? And uh if it is particularly let’s say um according to the Buddhist teaching, Buddhist tradition, if the gift, the generosity was giving towards Buddha, dharma and sangha, or (be)cause of dharma or all this, considered to be much more invaluable – no, valuable for the individual. Valued. It has more value than just giving somebody need it and you give it. Um, so, that is why if you look in the Tibetan, old, as well as the Chinese, and all these customs, if you look at they have no hesitation to give gifts for the lamas and monks, monasteries, things like that there will be no hesitation. They’re really very generous. But when they have to look for, look for, look for some sort of needing, social need or something and then much less. Uh, much less forthcoming anyway. So you, that is what I experience, I see it. And the cause of it I can’t see any other reason except, ah, in the Buddhist tradition the object to whom you give it makes the difference. Okay?

0:06:46.0

So that is why it is considered one of the best object of giving. However, the receiver that kind of gift, that kind of, that kind of that category of gift is not really considered as a gift. It is considered as a (Tibetan word that sounds like “Korf”). I don’t know how to say that in English. I have no idea. It is a, it is not an ordinary gift. It is a gift for some purpose, for spiritual purpose, for an individual to have spiritual benefit, or for betterment or for something so therefore it, to that individual it becomes “Korf.” “Korf” is not only just receiving, it is um a little bit beyond, I mean it is much more than ordinary gift. So, the work, the karmic work, is much more than ordinary gift. So, as a result of this um person who is receiving it also has worth, to worthy to receiving this particular type of gift, otherwise they have a problem.

0:08:03.2

Example, I’m not sure whether it is western tradition to even have it or not. The Tibetan tradition or even the Chinese and I believe the Indian, the old Indian tradition said same thing. It says if there is poison grass, if you give a poison, the peacock can take the poison and digest. Not only digest but it also helps them to build the the peacock feather, whatever that is. But if crow or robin tries to take that poison like the peacock does the crow or robin will die.

So (Tibetan phrase), these are the normal example it give, I’m not sure whether in the western tradition because when I started talking that uh you know senior group they all sort of looked up and down and it probably makes no sense. So, maybe there is no system, right? You don’t say (see?) that at all, (Jeff?). No, I see. But that, the peacocks eat poison or what?

Audience: (Brief comment inaudible)

0:09:34.8

Rimpoche: So this was example given. Peacock and crow, who can digest the poison? So it is not ordinary. If your friend give you something, we’re not talking about that. If a friend gives you a gift to you that is totally different. That is not the point. The point is people who have spiritual idea who know the giving is for something and for that purpose you know so when they start giving and then it becomes different. I believe. Is that more clear or do you need much, still more clarif – I remember, I think you raised the question that time too. Maybe I did not explain very clearly yet.

Audience: Thanks.

Rimpoche: Anybody had any other?

Audience: Would you talk for a little bit about digesting gift?

Rimpoche: Digesting gift. I don’t know in the western tradition much, I don’t know how they gifts, when they do give gift, just very kind way they give, right? They just don’t care, (if?) they like to give it they give it. And, uh, probably that is what it is. Many of them like to say anonymous and this and that sort of thing but, but it sort of the style and maybe a culture. The Chinese and Tibetan, rather eastern tradition, when people will give gift they’ll say, they’ll bring the gift, they give it in hand so please help me, please pray (“GIM CHO NA DA NA “ phonetic) The word “GIM CHO NA DA NA” is not only help, it sort of give, please give protection. Sort of something like that, with that sort of attitude. The idea is I’m going to give you whatever the gift is, I’m going to give you and I’m seeking your protection, your help.

0:12:13.6

And this and that, with that idea they will give you. So, with that idea when they give you and if you can reciprocate know what I mean? Whatever they are seeking and if you have been able to reciprocate – is it reciprocate? – It doesn’t mean return something, gift. But to be able to help, okay? Whatever the help they are seeking. So, then you are digesting. If not, you’re not digesting. Very simple. Clear language. And now, however, and however, a lot of people, lot of particularly monks and lamas, many of them, they receive a number of gifts. A tremendous amount anyway, I mean really a lot. You see? And if you don’t have the power to help and what are you going to do? At least you should be able to pray for it. For it. At least, and be, try to be good (laughs) and uh pray for it and uh try to dedicate the prayer that you do to that individual.

It is not like, it is not like in the west. In the west if you do something you charge for it, right? If you give a massage, if you give a healing treatment, or massage or something you say forty five minutes or one hour or whatever it is and this is my charge you say, right? And you don’t do that in the eastern tradition at all. So the person who is giving keeps on giving it and whatever it is whether it is the treatment or massage or dharma teaching or whatever it is they will keep on giving it and those who like to reciprocate they will pay, without you asking, without anything, they just do it, whatever they have to do. And, uh, that’s how it works.

0:14:47.4

And so when the person receive, or rather organization, not only a person, organization when it receives gift so we, then they say the prayers and they do all this and they pray for the individuals and also pray for the people who are even connected. So we say all these prayers for benefit of all sentient beings and particularly those who are connected. Uh, that is how you try to digest. And if you are unable to do it, digest, then you are probably paying for it (next time?). Because the karmic is something funny. And particularly in the name of spiritual. Particularly in the name of the spiritual. Particularly for the spiritual benefit of the individual. In that name whatever you take. I think it becomes category of “korf.” Rather than category of paying or category of anything else. So it becomes category of “korf.” And as it makes, we look big difference. If I’m looking back to, I’m sorry looks like I’m talking about Tibet only tonight but it is very, the culture of over there, I’m talking about pre-’59 Tibet, the culture is almost completely integrated with the Buddhist thoughts and ideas. So it looks big difference. Person who is giving something in name of the spiritual and who person who hires someone to do a job and is paying for that work or giving a gift to a friend it is a big difference.

0:16:47.8

From the point of the person who is the giver, they will also give big difference. For the receiver it will also look totally different. So that is what it is. Is that a little clearer or do you need more clear? You have a problem with that?

Audience: Yeah. I’m thinking about when you’re examples the receivers are usually, as I hear your explanation, the receivers were, are, receiving a spiritual gift, they’re monks or something that are receiving gifts and the giver has asked them to do something so there’s a…

Rimpoche: Well, even if they don’t ask, even in the words, it is automatically understood.

Audience: I’m trying to relate that to us. If we are receiving because if someone gave us something. Is there a comparable situation if you’re a layperson can you, I’m just trying translate that to the western situation where, and into our personal situation when we’re not monks.

Rimpoche: Doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter. The, a lot of, lot of gifts will be given to a lot of laypeople.

Audience: So how do we digest?

Rimpoche: As a group we say our prayers, we do our practice. And um as the organization receives gift and probably the head of the organization is responsible rather than as a whole, I think that is not really what it is. Um, that is what it is.

0:18:59.1

So you need more, further clarification on that or what?

Audience: Well, I’m just thinking of the gift giving, you know it is about the be the holiday season, are you talking about…

Rimpoche: (Laughing) You are thinking practical…

Audience: Physical gifts. Yeah, presents…

Rimpoche: No, no, no, I don’t think presents are gifts have anything to do with this. This is I think talking about totally different thing. Uhm, presents might be generosity, I think it is generosity of course, and uh gift giving for the needy, for the sick, for the wishing of help is also for generosity, and what we, I, we are talking about is sort of spiritual, I mean as you can see that I receive those gifts from overseas all the time. So they expect something they don’t just send you checks here and there like that, no. Sort of, they do definitely expect, though they don’t write it, I mean sort of you know so they say “May I present these…” and sort of, sort of they are worried about whether accept things or not to accept things rather than whether can they give it or not, you know? That’s what’s happening.

0:20:29.4

So, they do, I mean, without saying they have expectation for sure. They expectation is spiritual help. And particularly they are looking for help when they die. And that’s what it is. Unspokenly, they understand that. So the giver understands that and the receiver understands that. And uh I mean we say spiritually this and that. Probably maybe the concept is quite foreign in America, but that’s what it is. And for they give you, they give you as much as they can and whatever they have and they give you a lot. And what they expect and they expect you do something good for them. They will only give you person that they know, and they will give you person who can think uh this person is able to help. And, um, and then that’s what it is, that’s what it is.

That’s why you know in our meeting remember that Steven says the, the, (Inaudible: “South east Asian people”, or “Selfish Asian people”, or…?) over here they may be willing to give any gift to Rimpoche but not to any other people (laughing) that is the reason what it is, you know? So, that’s only they look, you know, from that angle, totally.

0:21:59.5

And so, so it looks nice when I receive a check in the mail, say oh well, there’s just open the mail and there’s a thousand dollar check, okay something like that. Okay, nice. Great. I mean that is how I survive actually, right, I don’t get anything (laughing). Anyway, so uh so but it looks nice. However, I have the responsibility. Totally responsible for that. I have to pray for it, I have to make sure this properly digest. If I could not melt inside by the, by the, if I did not able to melt, melt it inside, probably either throw off or you have diarrhea. So, that is the problem. So, (laughs) I’m sorry. That’s really it. So, digest. That is what it is.

I mean if you cannot digest you cannot take it. If you take it you are buying trouble for yourself. I think I’m referring to that. Why I said it that time? Because the teachings on generosity will probably focus very often on that one thing. Two, people also take things in the name of spiritual on things like that. With or without knowing what the consequences are. A lot of people do. So, I mean they try to have a spiritual, if you don’t mind I will say openly: They try to have the spiritual way of coming and also the business and they are making your living uh all sort of you know try to make it combined, sort of a mumble jumbled thing. Which is, might not be very good idea unless you really know exactly what you are doing.

0:24:05.7

So, in one way, you people come here to look and to listen something what Buddha’s way if I don’t tell is maybe fairly on my due part of it. If I tell some people may get offended. But I don’t mean, don’t take anything personal. But, straight forward. Um, if you work something and earn money, fine, no problem. And if your friend wants to give you, fine. If somebody is just out of luck want to give you in the street for no reason, fine. But, you say well I give you spiritual help and then I receive gift, then you have to digest. Okay, this is the problem. It comes there. And, um, that is not very easy. Not really very easy. Um, not very easy.

One of the nineteenth century great teacher was travelling in Tibet somewhere, up in north Tibet somewhere, and um there was a big lake, and in that lake there was a huge fish, and HUGE fish, sort of fish type of huge one, where there is a lot of other insects, and um sort of living beings are eating in the body, some of them makes their homes in there, on the back, and things like that there.

And um so that great teaching was travelling and he was, this is early nineteen hundreds not even very late, early nineteen hundreds, the teacher of our teacher like Kabje Ling Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche’s teacher Pabongka was travelling, he pointed out “Can you see that fish?” And they say “Yeah.” He says this is one of the, one person who in that area about 200 years ago who had been there as some kind of spiritual thing, teacher, Rinpoche, whatever, Geshe or something. I think Geshe or something, and could not digest all these things and taken rebirth in that fish and all these, all these beings that are giving at that time is now taking them back, that eating out of their body, so here he said that it must be purposely he said or that particular person might have been a purposely like the bodhisattvas and buddhas have always they make examples for the purpose of the future people to be able to understand better so maybe they have shown us an example or whatever the reason might be but there was a big fish, and the hundreds of other small little creatures even living in the body they can’t move it. Somehow they completely tried and can’t move much and they are not dead but they are living on that and eating and living there. So that’s what, if you really want to know what I mean paying by flesh and blood, okay? (laughs).

0:28:19.7

(“Horrible” or “However”- inaudible due to background noise) that was must be in the back of my mind and then coming out something. So, that’s what it is. So, so I mean in the western language you call in the name of spiritual, right? You have to say something like that to understand, something like that. But, what it means I give you spiritual help. And you give me money. That is not easy. That money is not easy. That’s what it is, okay? Even if you don’t demand and it is something somebody gives you with help of. Anyway, someone else gave me two hundred dollars today. (Laughs). That’s really I mean this other thing. This other part and you have to try to adjust that properly, adjust that properly. If you cannot and then it is your debt, you have to pay. Probably the same person who gives will take it, to that particular person they take it. In different lives, that’s how karma really works. It is very subtle, but very definite.

0:29:35.6

It is almost the same, even in the west. You worked for it and you paid for it. It is almost same way. Here you take advance. If you don’t work you pay it back (laughs). With interest (laughs). So that’s how the spiritual…you know what, people come and those gifts will come with hope of doing something for them, right? And at least even if you don’t pray, if you don’t say OH MANI PADME HUM or something for that purpose, and you’re totally rotten then. That’s what it is. And you definitely pay for it. So, what the receivers, I mean what we do here right, I do not know what you people will think but what we always think even in our prayers if you look those who are even briefly connected that would be worthwhile. We say that all the time, right? So that’s what it is. We will say, what do we say? I don’t remember the exact English word. Those teachers and what do we say?

Audience: Even those who only briefly interact…

Rimpoche: Even those who are even briefly interacted may their lives become worthwhile. Something. Didn’t we say that? We simply translated into English I don’t even know.

So, that is the reason why those, those people who are given pledges. Those people who are paying money regularly and we are praying for that. And, their, you want to read that. Not only praying, but also asking everybody, the protectors to help and all this and that. What do we say?

Audience: We start out by saying “May the holy assemblies which follow this system, and especially the glorious sacred Jewel Heart dharma assemblies whose teachers, leaders and inspired participants and benefactors prosper spiritually and materially while remaining in good health may all those who only briefly interact become worthwhile.

Rimpoche: Yeah, that’s it. That is what we say. So that is why you don’t have to worry about it because you are the cashier, right? (laughs). So, that’s what it is.

0:32:34.5

So if you don’t pray those things and keep on collecting those pledges then, then (laughing) you are going to get it.

Yeah, that’s what it is. That’s how you digest it. Even if people offer like you say semi-spiritual thing that’s spiritual help plus say makes words that go very well with healing. Spiritual help plus healing combined together. And uh even then I would really really dedicate virtue and uh I would say you know say certain particular a few mantras here and there, and you dedicate all your virtues uh that accumulated from the limitless beginning and by and so all this will dedicate to all living beings and particularly those who are connected and um sort of particularly whatever you did sort of thing we dedicated for their benefit and we also pray non-virtuous in general and all other obstacles may be cleared and they may be able to obtain ultimate enlightenment. Something like that we strongly pray, and that helps to digest.

So, otherwise, um, when you sort of you know have this spiritual shop um it is selling the spiritual stuff is slightly different than the selling a pen or grocery or something I think.

0:34:20.4

Uhm, I mean don’t take it personally, but, that’s what it it is, really. As I’m telling you I’m hesitated to say all the time but that’s what it is really (laughing). Okay, so, shall we switch subject (laughing) and are there any other questions? Something else. Unless you have no questions might as well as say it if anybody has anything they wanted to clarify or anything? (Pause) You have no questions? Good.

Audience: I have a question Rimpoche. After the talk we heard last week and then the teaching we had last weekend in thinking about the suffering that we experience and the people we love experience and the people who are in Tibet experience and sometimes I feel really helpless and I know there’s this refuge, right, but it’s still very difficult to somehow to work with that, I just you know it does inspire me to try to get to a point where I don’t feel so helpless but I do and I was wondering if you had any thoughts on that, the feeling of not being able to do anything.

Rimpoche: I don’t get it. What do you mean not being able to do anything?

Audience: Well, it just, you know I mean I know I can send positive thoughts and that’s what I can pray, I can um I can help where I can materially um…I don’t know if anyone else is dealing with that. It seems to be coming up for me a lot.

Rimpoche: I still didn’t get it. Can you make it a little more specific?

Audience: Okay. Well, I mean my mother has cancer…

Rimpoche: Yeah, I know…

Audience: …and she’s…so, I mean what do you, you know…or the people in Tibet the women are having forced sterilization, I mean those are two radical examples of both ends of…I really can’t go to Tibet and do anything about that, but maybe um people closer…

Rimpoche: You can go to Tibet and pick up some arms and…(laughs)

Audience: Yeah, that would help a lot…(laughter). I mean, you know what I mean, I can say yes, my spiritual practice is all I do right now is ultimately really going to help but then I still have that feeling of frustration that I’m not doing more or um I don’t know how else to make it clear.

Rimpoche: Yeah, I think, I think we are seeing sort of a human limit, right?

Audience: Yes.

Rimpoche: So you couldn’t, sort of seeing a limit with , there are certain things you can do and certain things you can’t do. And that is straight forward. There are certain things you cannot do. Certain things you can do. So, the physically, whatever certain things you can do you should do. Help. And when you can’t help it, and I don’t think you should be worrying about it. Um, not only that, I mean whatever we could do we should do and there’s no point of worrying. I think weekend we had that, right? We even talked that Bodhisattvacharyavatara (Tibetan speaking). If there is something to be corrected and something to be done and uh don’t sit there are worry. Do it. And do it to the point of what you can and when you cannot do it there there is no point of worrying it and switch to something else you can do.

0:38:38.8

So, the, you have to look at two different, definitely two different ways, beside that, even when you look at life of people, life of people is limited. Limited. I don’t think people is limited. Life is limited. So, there is beyond that. When you can contribute to this point whatever you can you should contribute as much as you can, mentally, spiritually, whatever. When you cannot contribute beyond that, when you can help it beyond that there should prepare that person in the future, for the future, rather than say “Okay, now we can’t do anything.” I think that is, that is different there. I mean that is a big question whether you have a future life or not is there really something call future life and that’s totally different. But if you look from the angle of future life you see, I mean definitely if you can’t get let’s say if people get sick and people cannot they’re not going to help, they’re not, they cannot be cured, they have to lose their life. So, but a person is not going to be ended. So then the question becomes we should definitely prepare the future one.

Whatever you can, I mean whatever we can. So prepare for the future. That we talked tremendously all the time how we help the future right? I mean there is a lot of major emphasis we talked, taught weekends, normally we had that. So, that is exactly it. Just, the point is that is not the end. It is not ending. So, therefore, I don’t think there is a question of helpless even. If you can’t help from the angle commonly accepted and known and physical, cannot, but there is other way of doing it. So, I don’t think it is ending there at all. Uh, I think there is a big difference between the spiritual and non-spiritual over there. The non-spiritual now you receive that end, and that’s about it. You cannot move an inch beyond that.

0:41:03.5

So it simply has to wait there and say “okay that’s that now.” And try to make as comfortable as possible within there and try to make look as good as possible. So that is because not only the limited view of the material point is ending so therefore you try to make it as comfortable and good and smooth as possible. That’s it. Right? So the spiritual if you look at, and there’s the person, that individual, is not going to disappear along with the body. So their soul, or the consciousness or whatever you call it, being will move. So, where, what and how you can help it.

And to that you can focus. But, on the other hand that individual is totally um what do you call it, if it is within the practice then you can do a lot of things. If it is not within the practice totally say that’s total nonsense don’t even talk to me about it. So then, that person can’t talk. However, there is a second person help, a third person help, sort of you help. That’s what we do all the time. This group probably did not hear it, but many of you have heard. Drukpa Konle. As um I don’t know in what connection, I think I did even mention last weekend too. Drukpa Konle probably many of you did not catch, that’s probably… I just briefly said something and people started shaking head and then I stopped. I sort of thought people understood (slight laugh). Not have. Not, not have, you know. Anyway, Drukpa Konle, one of the very funny sage in Tibet. Very funny. He behaved like a mad person sometimes, was around everywhere. And carries an arrow and bow all the time. And takes one little hunting dog with him all the time. So, that’s what they do, he does, and he is the founder of Drukpa Kagyu tradition, completely they said.

0:43:30.5

There is one old lady (and one old lady that dies) and before she died she had very good turquoise, one of the best. Her biggest wealth was turquoise. It is really good one. I believe she had put on somewhere around head somewhere. So, she told the people living being, she said “When I die please give it to Drukpa Konle, that is the crazy guy you know, sort of, and ask him to pray for me.” So these people decided not to give him that (laughs). But instead they give something else. So they run and chase him and they couldn’t find him. He’s, when they say that he’s in east side of Lhasa he’s on the west, when they go west he go east, they couldn’t find him! Chasing him around all the way. So finally they caught him and then they give him the gift and so and so died and seeks your help. He looks as says “Where is the turquoise?” (Laughter) “Where is the turquoise?”

So, then they sort of, they had to go back and get the turquoise and give it to him. And he picked the turquoise up like this and throw at the bag, actually it went into his uh, huh? (speaking to audience) That word?

Audience: Quiver.

Rimpoche: (Mispronouncing “quiver”), okay. Went in there

Audience: Qui-Ver

Rimpoche: Quiver. Okay. Quiver, alright. Went in there and then he said. (Tibetan). The small turquoise goes in quiver and uh the old lady goes in the path of liberation. And um people do help that way. And this is constantly one of those things. One of those things.

0:45:39.8

They’re always sick and then somebody…

(recording stops and resumes at different point)

And what happened to karma, right? Because in karma you can help yourself nobody else can help. What happened to karma? Second and third person help is also try to somehow they get room to make the conditions right. Original karma cannot be changed at all. But on the conditions they have, whether they can have conditions right or they cannot have conditions right so there’s room for prayer, there’s room for everything it is possible because of the conditions.

Even we mentioned, even somebody who had been doing something sort of very bad throughout their life rather bad, say a profession like a butcher or something, throughout life. However, some help just before they die and some of them have been able to connect with virtuous work and uh there’s ninety percent chance that person will have a better the next immediate life a better one. Because, the good connects with good and the bad connects with bad. That is again the nature. So, that’s why the mind immediately before death could make tremendous difference. Even somebody who have been doing totally perfect, I mean totally in their lifetime, but then something happens just before die some get anger, some get angry or some, something happens it connected with non-virtuous thought. The next immediate life can be bad.

0:47:26.7

Which is possible. And that is the reason why the conditions can connect the original karma. We all have millions of different karma, good and bad. So, the conditions are who really makes the karma works. So that is why at the time of the death (inaudible) becomes important. Uh, just immediately before dying. Because death itself is neither virtue nor non-virtue, it is very subtle mind. The mind cannot be virtue or non-virtue. So, but mind immediate before death can help.

Can be able to connect next immediate to the death because then it becomes a little more gross than subtle. That gross mind can connect that gross mind then you may go through a little subtle stage. A couple seconds or something. So that is what that stage will be up to, that’s what it is.

So, I don’t think we’re limited on this. So there’s much more beyond that. Now the condition in Tibet is different. The speech that you heard is political speech. So it might have been exaggerated a little more than what it really is. Or maybe the truth, who knows. Whatever it is a political thing is again the collective karma. The collective karma of the collective people who are in connected in that it has its own collective karma. Right? And uh that’s it.

Say there’s a war tomorrow between whatever that is, Iraq and Americans down there in the Middle East. Those who are going to die, those who are involved in that is in their collective karma. It is very difficult to change or, or do something when the conditions push so hard. And that condition is collective karma condition it is harder than individual karmic conditions.

0:49:48.2

Individual karmic conditions the conditions are easier. The collective karmic conditions are conditions much harder. So, that’s what it is. So, of course we have to worry, but at the same time. No, I think we have to concern but it is at the same time we don’t have to worry about that. Even Buddha said one of the Buddha’s attendants called Ananda. Ananda kept talking to Buddha and say “Oh, this is the, people are suffering this and this and that all the time.” So Buddha said people are suffering due to their karmic conditions so you don’t cry over their karmic conditions, that is what Buddha said. So, it is, concerned but that’s what it is.

In the case of what your personal thing is I don’t think it is a dead-end at all. You should look beyond that and should not be handicapped. As you see, in the medical, I was just thinking that. In the medical things they give you medicine, medicine, and when the medicine can’t handle it you they can do the surgical things and the surgical things are (get it?) alright. Very similarly, the looks like the material people, when they are just totally material non-spiritual, they can only see to that end and that’s that, beyond that. And the spiritual people sort of have edge over on that.

0:51:29.6

Just like the surgical treatment has it over the medical treatment. That’s what we know, right? At least I hope I’m right (laughing) I’m guessing. That’s what it looks to me, at least. I’m not, I never learned, I never had a western education so I never know, but, that’s look like to me. So, that is same way to the spiritual and non-spiritual person. I mean the differences there. This is place where you show the difference.

Right? Now let’s see, since we are talking (inaudible) let’s look uh senior citizens home. You look after them, right? (to audience member). Senior citizens home, okay. The people in the senior citizens home all right aging home, whatever they call it. Old folks home, whatever you call it, so anyway when you look at that it looks somehow people are taken away, to me, it seems people are taken away from their life and completely pushing in the corner somewhere. I mean looks to me, if you look from one angle, put in, push in a corner sort of slightly, give them a comfortable life but sort of push them away, out of my way and put them over there and looks like are just waiting for, for to leave.

0:53:08.7

You know what I mean? Okay, now if there is a spiritual thing behind that I’m going to be very busy. They are going to have a tremendously busy, they are going to be preparing for the future life. They’ll be, you know, there is a spiritual background. They’ll be lot of different things to do. They’ll be much more busy and more active and more looking forward or afraid or looking forward or understanding of it, how you are going to die, what will happen, how it is happened, and how it works and then prepare, praying. Do all sorts of things. They are going to be very, very busy.

But, uh, when they don’t have the spiritual path they are simply waiting there how to pass the time. And uh sort of how to pass the time and simply waiting there.

Audience: They play a lot of bingo.

Rimpoche: At least there is something to do. Or watch television. Bingo. Tell stories or something. There’s just something to…maybe a soap opera. Soap opera. Okay.

Audience: I guess I want to ask you what you think about political activities. For instance, tomorrow at 12:30 there is going to be a vigil in front of the federal building on, to try to stimulate public opinion in (inaudible) for a joint session of congress to consider affairs in the middle east instead of leaving it entirely to the Pentagon and the president. And I in the past have gotten involved in peace activities and they are very draining, they are not spiritual at all…

Rimpoche: I think they are spiritual...

Audience: …draining and it makes you, you get very committed, you get very frustrated and angry much of the time because you don’t feel that what you are doing is very effective although you still feel you should do it. I’ve done a lot of political work and it is boring and frustrating (inaudible)…

Rimpoche: Hmm mm (agreeing)

Audience: It doesn’t feel spiritual when you are doing it. And I don’t know how to reconcile what I feel is a calling to, to become engaged in this again with the belief that somehow it is the karma of 200,000 young men to be sent to die, some of them to die in the desert. I don’t believe it is the karma I think it’s political stupidity.

Rimpoche: It is. They are providing the conditions.

Audience: …nothing can be done about it besides trying to make it peaceful for them to die when they are dying of poison gas or burns. I don’t think it is possible for them to exit this life into the next one in a good way under those conditions. I don’t see any way of coming to terms with this political reality as you have described Chris coming to terms with her mother’s illness and imminent death…

Rimpoche: First thing. Not only 200,000 people I’m seeing another, another 400, or is it 300,000 Iraqis on the other side, and there’s another 400 this side, so there’s close to 800,000 people you’re looking at it. Like one goal, if the war break it will probably be one goal. I mean I really don’t think there will be one gun shooting and you kill two people here and twenty people here and 20,000 – there is estimating if there is a war we will lose 20,000 people.

0:56:49.5

I don’t think it will, it won’t be. It won’t be. Just probably, probably there will be, biggest thing, probably, both sides will throw most powerful thing which will limit the (throw?) in each side. So, we probably be, probably look at another half of them at least dead. So looking about four or five hundred thousand people on either side. So, so that’s very important work to do, to me it is, if ask me straight forward friend question and I say it is very important to do that. However, if the joint session of congress voted for war then no trouble. You contributed to it. Uh, you never know what’s going to go, you know, at this moment I don’t really know whether the joint session of congress will vote for war. Which (inaudible) can say not going to. But if you, if, if person sort of started advocating for peace I think it is much more safer and more important than that of pushing a joint session. Which if they vote for war then we’re in trouble.

Audience: I think the guess is that they must have (inaudible) this movement can throw itself in the direction of, of what’s likely to be more beneficial, but…

Rimpoche: Yeah, definitely better to leave in hands of congress than that of one persons decision or something, but I mean from the karmic point of view if you looked the thing is, if you work for peace with the condition of thinking with the motivation of saving life, with the motivation of bringing peace, um, when you work for that it will definitely it is good karma I think it is spiritual. Definitely spiritual. I think spiritual or non-spiritual is the motivation makes the difference.

0:59:16.0

The motivation uh with the saving of life. There is no individual interest. It is the saving of life in general. And in particular peace in the world. With that when you do it definitely spiritual. However, we work for the, say for, joint congress, thousand senators or whatever that is, congress, huh?

Audience: 535

Rimpoche: Yeah, 535 people representing how many people? See, that is a big gap. And 535 can vote for war too. And um looking at the mood of the country, say leaders today, I, how, I’m not sure if congress will vote for peace, I’m not really sure (laughs). Sure, but I think peace movement itself is good work. I’m not sure, I don’t know.

Audience: You know, I find it easy, not so easy but, if you think of trying to live with who this virtuous by patience, and love and compassion it is easier to do this in context of living your life, your work, your family that kind of thing it takes attention, you have to think about it and pay attention because somehow we can get, when we get sucked into political activity that’s very angry, it is very very hard to do this with what I would think of a Buddhist consciousness. You become very very frustrated and angry almost right away. It’s hard to do with the right spirit.

Rimpoche: Yeah, but you can do it things without getting angry. You can definitely move things. You can lose a little temper here and there definitely not that. Because it is doing something for good cause. However, the motivation and major effort you can definitely do, with those, without getting angry. I’m quite sure. I mean there is no point. We all get upset what, what, what the total policy they are doing today. When I heard (inaudible name) say no I’m not going to vote for whole (or maybe the word is “war”)

1:01:51.6

Uh, it makes us feel happy, right? Seems happy. That is indication that uh that you’re frustrated. However, when you look at it and uh there is no point of getting angry on the administration. Probably that guy trying to do his best.(laughs) He believes in certain way and probably he thinks he has to do that way or he try, he just stuck there and had to do something otherwise, well its quite clear. Otherwise the people at home will lose their patience. And uh the, the soldiers over there don’t want to stay. They always say, when can you go back? And um the, the people will lose their interest, they will lose their spot. And you have to justify all the expenditure and rush all these people over there. I don’t know, what do you do?

And so they had to do something and um and if they don’t get something in next two weeks in U.N. then this Yemen will become the chairman of the (special/spirited?? Inaudible at 1:03:16.6) counsel and then the possibility of getting all (senators?) even more difficult. So they had to do within a couple of days, something. And, um, that’s what it is. I think so what to do?

So, I think you definitely worth for working for peace for sure. Not only work, it is, it is the virtue, it is spiritual work. It’s saving a life. Even generosity too we are talking about. Generosity of life. Generosity does not have to be money giving at all. If you save a life you are giving of life. Giving of life does not mean you give birth to kid, that’s not the giving of life. The giving of life is saving of life is giving of life. I’m sorry, maybe it is wrong with western concept maybe (laughs).

Mothers give birth to children, but not necessarily voluntarily giving it, (laughs) nor is it…sort of a motivation plan it and then it comes out. That’s (laughs) a different than really gift. And gift of life is really saving of life is gift of life (laughs). Sorry about that. (laughs).

So the problem with the Buddhist influence um, the problem, is that sometimes it is too much checking on mental stage and lesser interpretation of practical and that is a fault and problem in Buddhist things. I mean, (audience name inaudible) was raising that question. I think very valid, practical thing. There is a problem. I do not know how that problem came to being, I have an idea but…I think the, when Buddhism comes to American and society like this, when it is in India or Tibet, you probably say – early India, not, not late India. Early India before, uh, a thousand years before, or in Tibet, pre-50’s Tibet, uh society (movements/moments??) very little. I mean, you probably see a group of people here and there, the monks are here and group of people there, otherwise the rest of the country you probably see one person in one valley.

1:06:33.9

So, right, I mean if you go in Bhutan, I realize, I was a kid in Tibet I left when I was 18 or 19, but I had been everywhere, I didn’t realize. And then I came to India and lived in, there are so many people like this, right? Who lived in that place? But when I went to Bhutan, and when you go into Bhutan and you sort of go cross mountain pass here and there is one big gap and there’s one family in there. You go across there is another family. So, wait a minute, what’s happening here? I had to stop and thinking. And then I realized back in Tibet it is the same condition.

So, therefore, when you are living all by yourself so the, society movement is probably question does not arise. It is not something. So, anything that society has to do something it is responsibility of government. And let them do whatever they have to do, they are not bothered. And there’s not so much (tax?) system in Tibet. Earlier, there is no tax system much. So, nobody will come and bother you for money tax. But if you are subject of some lot(?) then there is a (inaudible at 1:08:01.4) word and this and that and that is different (laughs). But otherwise there is no money system. They probably collected money just once or twice. That is called (UMTA?? Tibetan word inaudible). Whenever you find one ear (?) they say bring one thangka one like, one like one (inaudible) for one ear(?) or something. They probably collected once or twice in 500 years probably.

And that’s what as far as the money tax is concerned. So that’s not so much there. So people are mostly very scattered, society movements are not very much the norm. So, you sit up there in the mountain and have very good thoughts and visualize everybody be happy (inaudible Rimpoche coughs through word).

So, the physical interpretation did not really take place. When you come to India or if Buddhists come to the west, Buddhism comes to the west, it has to participate in this society and that has to come in. It has to be. Has to be.

I do hope all the Buddhists will work for peace rather than for war (laughs). Anyway. So whatever it might be. It depends, I believe it depends on motivation. Motivation no personal interest, totally dedicated of serving, benefitting, and through that whatever you do. Sometimes you may even indulge (?) rather tough and rough political activities rather tough and rough political activities. Or whatever, as long as your motivation is not shaken. As long as your purpose is not shaken. Probably it is going to be a spiritual work and it will benefitting other beings. And um then of course if you dedicate and also while functioning it is also important to pay attention that one doesn’t get angry over for something which definitely cause anger, tremendous anger.

1:10:46.1

But uh still the value of spiritual balance is to be able to use the anger down, and uhm probably it’s sort of replaced by compassion. Ah, and that’s what it is. Late Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche who was the junior tutor to his holiness the Dalai Lama and when we talk about Mao he always said (inaudible – Sounds like “Neen Ja Neen Ja”) no matter whenever you talk about Mao, Chairman Mao, there was very strong compassion he has. Always “Neen Ja Neen Ja” the word “Neen Ja” is very compassionate words. (inaudible) or something like that. Or sometimes we say “Sha Tza Sha Tza”(phonetic spelling of unfamiliar Tibetan word) all feel like pinching, you know. Like feeling compassion. So, if the anger replaces by compassion and which is possible and uh if you try to practice that it happens.

I begin to think Bush must be having strong reason to (laughing) probably trying to do his best, with some kind of reason that he knows (continues laughing). He can get this, yeah. But those (difficult to understand “who struggle are crazy but there might be some reason).

Could even be saving face for America or whatever it is. (laughs).

So, with that sort of thing and the (inaudible at 1:12:39.3) if you have the proper motivation (same inaudible word) action, whatever action is needed which has strong compassion influence, rather than anger. And if you dedicate it. Whatever that virtue. Whether it has materialized or not materialized from the individual point of view, you contributed. You contributed. And dedicate it. That’s what it is, I mean that’s how it works, even completes that. Whether it’s materialized or not materialized it is different.

1:13:12.5

That doesn’t mean you have to forget if you don’t want to and then forget, no. Work for materialization of it. But even if you did not materialize it doesn’t matter. I think that’s how it works, really.

Well, I suppose I waste a lot of time today by talking all sorts of funny things. But hopefully it has been practical. And, um, what is, what is next Tuesday, when is next Tuesday? What day would that be? Towards the seventh. Okay. So we’ll be meeting and but we will mention it also but we have all the group try to combine together on Saturday and Sunday, that is eighth and ninth. And we don’t know where we’re going to meet, but we definitely meeting (laughs). We don’t know where but we’re meeting. I don’t think we can meet here because it is not going to be able to accommodate people here, so.

Audience question on dates inaudible at 1:14:39.1

Rimpoche: December eighth and the ninth. We’re meeting whole day. Like the morning into evening. So that’s Saturday we’re meeting at night too. We will burn the butter lamps at the night. Candle light. There are a number of them. And uh so we’re meeting, I don’t know whether we’re meeting somewhere around here or…

Or somehow we will, by next Tuesday we will know, right? (speaking to audience member) You won’t be here…You’ll be here. Okay.

So, hopefully by next Tuesday I will tell you where we are meeting. Combined group.

Audience member; It’s the study group, and the lam rim group from Chicago, and the study group from Cleveland…

Rimpoche: That study group from Cleveland. There are only five people.

Audience member: Well, five people are coming I mean of the study group five can come. Not everybody can come. Not everyone from the study group in Chicago either. So whoever can come from those groups will be with us.

Rimpoche: And from Toledo too.

Audience member: And the study group from Toledo.

Rimpoche: Study person? (laughter) So we’ll be meeting either here or Farmdale or what? Somewhere. We’re definitely meeting in Michigan (laughs).

Audience member: Or Chicago (laughs)

Rimpoche: Not in Chicago (laughing)

1:17:13.5 End of recording