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19901127GRAAPTF1

GR: Tonight should have been the meditation night, however now it is sort of turning to discussion group, but. Ehm…Since we’ve had one Tuesday you were given a talk on Tibet, since then we’ve got on our schedule…I don’t know what happened then, so we’re not in there probably yet. So, however, most of the people here tonight are mostly familiar with it. We practice what we do.

I would like to raise certain questions. The questions we have very constantly been talking about. However, we’ve been talking and dealing with it but we’ve not much emphasised directly, only talking indirectly. Directly we have not talked too much. It’s not going to be a very nice question. Sometimes it is difficult and sometimes even painful and sometimes it makes sense, or total nonsense. Hahhhh. That is the question I have in mind: We look in our life. We see it is valid and we see its importance and we work for it. Either to give comfort to this life, either material or some people say material is not the point, spiritual. Whatever the point we’re making we try to give a comfort to this life.

0:03:41.7

We say to eat meat is not good for you. Brown rice is good, green grass is good. Vegetable. We also say all that eating of junk food is nothing and eating the good food is spiritual. We say that don’t we? I’m sure we say if we eat brown rice it’s spiritual, right.

Audience […]

Gr: So all of that. Once we look very carefully, all of them are aiming for what? Aiming to have a long life, lesser illnesses, more healthier life, more clear mind. That’s what we look for. At the same time do we ever look for our future life? That is the question that rises in my thought. Especially with the…Lately I’ve been situations around here and had questions that come from friends who deal with that. People will talk too.

Why don’t you come in a little bit. Just sit on the steps, just come in a little bit. Why don’t you move? Is it difficult …?

Aud:[…]

GR: Is it raining?

Aud:[…]

GR: So, all these questions, did we ever look? What we call future life. What is it? How is it? […] to shape it. And especially: Which is more important? This one, or the future one? These are the questions, we’ve been talking, we’ve been dealing, we’ve been studying, we’ve been practicing all this indirectly. Have we aver raised direct question: Which is more important, this life or future life? For me, when looking at our own behaviour our normal way of living and thinking is giving us the answer all the time, only has something to do with this life, not so much in the future. Some things are not good for you. That’s why I’m getting at meat and brown rice. All of them seems to me we are only looking, those of us who say the spirituality is important, those of us who say: the material is something which we leave aside, these are the people I’m talking about okay? People who think material, think how to deal with the material; for them it’s a different question. Totally. Doesn’t even realise, doesn’t reach, doesn’t even get to future life. How do I know it’s there? I only know we can see people and deal with them till they die. That’s different. Those of us who claim to be in the spiritual path, do we really think which life is more important for us, this one or the future?

0:10:08.1

Atisha, the person who has brought Buddhism from India to Tibet, 11th century Indian scholar, gives the answer for this. He says: The future life is much more important and much longer in duration and [the passion is much far away to go]. So to the individual it is much more important. If you compare this life to future life, the future life is going to be much more important, much, much more important than this life. And the reason that Atisha is giving is he says: This life is something we can look and plan it and work for. Within a certain framework it functions. And the future we cannot, we cannot do anything, manipulate as we plan our next two or three years of functioning. You can’t do that in your future life. Yet, it is much longer. You’ll spend much more time in your future life rather than this life. So, it is very important. More important than this life. That was Atisha’s answer. Now, I don’t know how it is relevant to us. We have to see. Each one of us has to sometimes raise that question within ourselves and say: For me, point the finger to me, for me which life is going to be important? This one, or the future?

I believe we have to think a lot on that and it is worth to spend time, worth to do research, worth to analyse and worth to discuss with friends. And then try to reach some kind of conclusion. If you reach the conclusion saying that this life is somehow important. Our normal habitual pattern will tell us, our mental habitual pattern will tell us normally this is important. If I have to feel it, I have to feel it before I die. If I have to experience, I have to experience before I die. And after that, somehow we feel it is slightly distant. Maybe to the extent of seeing that the future person is somehow separate from our self. These sort of ideas we may have very often. If we have that idea it is clearly indicating to ourself that we are not really getting into the Dharma at all. At all. Because according to the Buddha the lowest spiritual person should be considering for the future life, at least. That is the lowest category the Buddha has given. We all try to opt at the highest category. We always like to be very high mahayana, rather than hinayana. We like very much to be vajrayana rather than ordinary Mahayana. The higher it is that much attraction we have. But, in reality… Remember we’ve been saying very often wether the dharma that we practice is mahayana or vajrayana dharma it doesn’t matter. It makes no difference As long as the person who practices does not become mahanaya or vajrayana. No matter whatever you do, the level where you practice is not being judged by what practice you do. You know what I mean? It’s been judged by the individual’s way of looking, by the capacity of the individual. That’s the way it is judged. It is not what you do. In the normal western sense thay say: Oh, this is a very high practice. Not for us for a couple of years, but I’m looking forward. We say that don’t we? Look in our Jewel Heart sangha, even in that some people say that: Oh yeah that’s what a few people do, I’m not at that level yet. We say that, don’t we?

0:17:20.0

Some people think about that. Doesn’t matter! It’s not the practice that you do, it is the person who practices what, that makes the difference [Tibetan] Similarly, the question that I’m raising tonight: is the future life important or this life, have we ever thought about that? If so, what is our answer? Steve? Don’t give me intellectual answer. In other words: Don’t talk from your head but talk from your heart.

Steve: […]that you believe in a future lifetime which is a very difficult point to get to, then just the consideration of how ones future lifetimes samsaric onwards.

GR: That is a very good answer you gave. So, do we have to believe in future life. I don’t know. Do we? Do you believe in a future life? Actually believe is a totally wrong word, but do you believe in a future life? I don’t really want to say do you believe… It sounds rather funny, right. Is it necessary for us to convince ourselves of having a future life before we engage in practice? And Steve’s answer indicated if you believe it, it will be very long and difficult, but if you don’t believe it, it doesn’t matter, right?

Steve […]

I try to put word in your mouth, right?

0:20:46.2

I think it is a very important question. Why? Most of our practice, what do we do? We are focussing it to benefit for a long time and even the Buddha’s way of measuring people whether it is really spiritual you look for, it has three divisions, three different levels: Whether a person is spiritual oriented or not oriented, the Buddha’s way of looking is totally whether it is going beyond to future life. Otherwise, no. Buddha made it very clear. Which is not easy for Americans to buy, naturally, because of a lot of things. When I’m talking about this, I’m not trying to say, don’t misunderstand me, that health is not important. I’m not saying that this life is not important. Don’t hear that. But I’m raising questions whether the future life is equally important as we consider this life is important. Which is more destinate. This or the future? This is what we are looking at. It may be very hard. If we have to convince ourselves there is a future life before we even enter any spiritual practice I think it is going to be a little hard too. So, how do we compromise?

0:22:48.9

Normally in the Tibetan tradition of course it is taken granted. I remember one evening, was it during the weekend? Somebody raised that question. We talked about it. Normally we take it for granted, true because the fortunate thing for the Tibetan born in Tibet, like me, when you’re born in Tibet this sort of question is somehow already answered. There is no question. Nobody ever thinks there is no future life. There’s not a single human being amongst the Tibetans, including Tibetan christians and muslims, all think there is definitely a future life. Even the christians talk about a future life. So, another funny, but they do. So somehow environmentally it is already answered. And I don’t really think it is necessary for us to believe it. Somehow it is too much obvious, obvious, but unfortunately it cannot be proved in black and white because there is death and the changing of life is in between. So we cannot really prove it in black and white. Like when we say when you put red here and yellow here you get orange. Something like that you can’t do. However it is too much obvious. Talk to kids, a lot of kids remember something. During the younger age there is much more possibility of memory recollection. Even our older people we get a […] sometimes, we see a situation where you try to think: I have seen this, where have I, when was it. So, somehow it is a recollection of something else. Besides that people see beyond that to have all these diffent…even through drugs people do see. We get too much of incidents. At least it [..] benefit of doubt. I don’t think anybody, even a very very strong materialistic human being, if he is intelligent enough will give it the benefit of doubt, if there’s a future life. I think. But as a spiritual person I think we should always…really think about that. Because if there is say if there is not such a thing called future life we are waisting our time totally. We might as well enjoy whatever, whatever we have to do. But for a buddha today has been repeatedly, repeatedly talking about our future life. Even ourselves we have a lot those funny instances, that we try to recollect: What was it, when has this happened, where did I know this person from? Many of them indicate. Not picking up some funny story where some guy has done some [challice], picked it up in India, this and this. I’m not thinking of all that. I’m just simply saying try to look into ourselves and try to see it. At least reasonably. So once we begin to see reasonably there is something like a future life, we have to raise the question which is more important?

I know a lot of people are willing to say, of course future life is important. Without thinking. Some people with thinking they will say future life is important, but I believe we have to convince ourselves the future is much longer and much more and maybe difficult, maybe easy. So, the whole of buddha’s teaching comes in. Then you say, all right, how will all that happen? What is happening now is taken as an example and it will show you what will happen in the future. What is happening now is the result of what we did in our previous. So, Buddha goes sometimes beyond that. Not Buddha, but one of the great teachers following what Buddha has said: [Tibetan].

To the extend, they say, the future life whatever it might be, we’re very grateful to this life and its opportunity. But present great spiritual person please do not let me down in the future. Do you get that? This is a saying which indicates what is happening now, whether we have good, bad, enjoyable, miserable, whatever is happening within our life just now, is done by nobody else except ourself. As we can see we created conditions things can be right. Even in everyday life we make the conditions right thing will turn out to be right. We work for the condition to go in a certain direction. Always push our energy effort in shaping the thing in the way we want to shape them. Even if it is materially we do that. So why would we…If the conditions are right things go the way you want it, we try to shape the conditioning that way. Similarly our karmic system works the same way: The conditions be right and this karma comes up and we experience. Good or bad sad, happy, painful, joyful, all of that. Similarly to this and as it is happening here, the same thing repeats in future life. Same thing, nothing else. So the essence of it tries to tell you: How are you going to look for your future? It is in our own hands. We can shape our future. That is the whole idea.

0:31:46.2

That’s the whole reason why we practice and why we meditate. We’re not meditating to have a calm and quiet mind. It comes as a side effect. We don’t put in our energy for it. We do not say our prayers, mantras or meditate, to get more money. We do all this to shape our future better. To shape all other sentient beings. We talk about love and compassion for all sentient beings, blah blah blah. And all our blah blah blah, if we cannot see, if we don’t recognise the future life is more important than this life. This life, to some extend we do have control. We can govern and we can change it, shape it. We do have something. Of course there are a lot of things we cannot control but al lot of things we can control and make it work. You can go to school, you can choose a subject. You want to be a lawyer to make more money. Whatever it is we try to shape it to some extend. We do have some control and the future we don’t. It totally depends on karmic situation. Who makes the karma? We make the karma. And when do we make? We make it now. That’s the reason why we practice and meditate. That’s the reason why we are spiritual about it rather than being straightforward, you know. The very simple reason why we’re here and not in the bar or dancing somewhere, or singing or drinking. Okay, drinking is bad for my health, we understand that don’t we? But why we are different. Why are we not watching a movie now rather than sit here and try to meditate here? So we’re looking for something. We try to shape a better future. And that better future is when we’re not trying to get the answer in the next two years or three years. We’re really trying to look for our future life. Somehow we have to know our future life is much more important than this life. This life, yes we need all the comfort, all the good things. We have no satisfaction how good we get it but still we want to have the good. Fine, there’s no problem. You can have that. But also look for future. This should be the real, thinking somewhere behind our conclusion somewhere. So constantly should come up: there is something beyond that. You don’t disappear. It is not like a candle light. You blow it and no more. But human life, human beings, or rather: beings, have some continuation. Goes on. And when that continuation goes on, what happens? Don’t ever think my future person is different from me. Never! If my future person is different from me I should be ended when I’m dead. I don’t, I continue. Did you get it, Susan?

0:37:22.9

Audience: [consciousness…]

GR: Whos’ consciousness is. When you say consciousness do we point out some third person? Do we look at something different than me? No. What I leave is this. This very [moose]. This I leave, but the so called me will is identified me. When you say: Hey you! Who, me? Me? That me will continue. Simple reasoning: If you start shouting at a dead body: Hey you! That body will never say: You mean me? Because the me is not in there. So that me inside…When you have somebody at the door, rings the bell, you say from the inside: Who are you? Who is it? What do you want? What you see is only the door and the doorbell. The door and the bell is the same as this nose here, right. It says me like the doorbell. But who is answering is within the me. Hèhehè, me inside me, hèhè. Something inside is answering. Whetther you call it consciousness or the being, or whatever. Like when you ring the bell. The bell goes drring and you say: Who are you? Who is it? The door doesn’t say ‘who are you’. Maybe some computerised machine may say it, but normally it doesn’t. Similarly the inside, the me is more than this one. A clear sign: When you’re dead you start saying ‘Hey you’ they won’t answer because that inside is gone. And that inside is the real me.

0:40:04.6

That inside real me has gone to our future. Going through the practice of getting into future. And if you begin to look at that separation a whole lot of purpose in the future. If that somebody is called my consciousness, or my soul, plain language which is familiar with people, If you look that is separate from me…when I’m ended here, all my deeds are enjded here, good or bad it’s finished, ended here. It doesn’t, it continues. Inside is gone somewhere, gone in the future. That very person called me is going in the future. I may look different. I may have a hole, I may have a […] I may look different I may have a beard or something else, but the same me. I think it is a very important point to think all the time. Because the moment you separate all our purpose is gone… I don’t mean that religious purpose depends on future life, I don’t mean that at all. What I meant is we are shaping our future as we can see if you eat brown rice iti s good for your health. We can see it, understand, we can comprehend how it works. Who knows whether it is good or bad. Sometimes somebody will say something like [caving] is bad and now they say it is good. Or whatever they say. Oh if you eat […] it’s all right better than… Egg was very good I remember and then it was very bad and now it’s not so bad. So all of them will come, but now atleast there is brown rice is good for us. Especially …hohoho. That’s because we can see how it reacts. How it reacts within our system what happens that’s what we can see. Very similarly our spiritual practice will also…so we have to work in that same mechanical and has to be good for us, otherwise there’s no purpose. Otherwise why do we spend time, why we sit cross legged? Why do we have to spend time thinking here and reading books? Everyone of you has a lot of work and cut off from there you had to run and spend hours here, travel here, out of all the busy schedules, we take time sit hours and think and say mantras and all that. The purpose is the same. We have to see that is [hum hum] benefitting for us. Not only benefitting, it is shaping our future completely. Okay? It is not only contributing, but making our future. That is what we have to see, otherwise the full purpose of the spiritual is for what? That’s why once you realise that, once you see that, then it becomes important for the individual. Then it begins to occupy top priority. Otherwise we have to push, that is the last thing we push aside.

0:44:45.6

[Tibetan] If we filled our stomach, this is the Tibetan lamas talking among the Tibetans, If your stomach is filled up and you’re warmed by the sun, Tibet is cold, warmed by the sun when you have noting else to do then you remember dharma and do something, right.[Tibetan] You look like spirituality. {Tibetan] Otherwise if you have problems coming across it becomes worse than ordinary person who has no spirituality. And that is the example they’re giving. Once we see the spiritual practice is the one which is shaping our future, like brown rice is correcting our health. Whether it is helping or whatever, but it is better than junk food. Somehow we see how the process goes within our system and how it is good for your health. We know that, right? We don’t see it, but we know it. And similarly the spiritual practice shapes our future. We have to see that. Unless we see that, our spiritual practice has a weakness. Tremendously weak, because it could be: when you have a filled up stomach and warm with the sun nothing else to do… I might as well do it. There’s no urgency, no priority. Right? No priority. What for? This is my commitment my [papers] must be giving otherwise…I must sleep otherwise I’m too tired tomorrow. I must go to see a movie otherwise my friend will get upset with me. You know what I mean? All these priorities…we have so much priorities in our life and the practice will become the last. Simply we don’t know what it is for. Maybe it is fashion. Maybe it is fashion, some people go there. It makes some sense. What I don’t mean actually, they say: It answers my questions. A lot of people tell us. A lot of people tell me it makes sense…What does that mean? That means you have a prefabricated answer. Prefabricated answer you have. You come and you hear the same thing confirmed what you had pre-thought about it. You say ‘Ah it makes sense.’ And it doesn’t go with that you say: ‘Oh, it doesn’t make sense…It’s no good!’ Even when you say it makes sense it shows you have a prefabricated idea already. Maybe I’m too hard on that, but that’s really what it is.

0:48:43.9

So the most important thing is our present practice is shaping our future life. The present practice is the brown rice of the future life, hahahah. Yeah! If we see that. Truly it is. Why? For the karmic principle, if you look: Every minute in our life is the result of some or another karma we have created earlier. Otherwise where does this come from? I don’t buy: The god has come down giving you this. Then the god should be giving all the good ones. Why do they give the bad ones? We always have the difficult ones here, always. If you look into it, it is full of suffering in this life. Who doesn’t have it? [Tibetan] The Seventh Dalai Lama has said: Whether you look for the higher people or the lower people, the weaker ones or the wealthier one, whoever you look: Some people dress better some for worse, some people have more show-off, some people have lesser show-off. But if you look carefully everybody has equal misery and suffering. No matter if you spend some time with anybody, rich or poor, higher or lower, educated or illiterate, whoever you look: They my smile or make jokes, but when you sit down and go deeper in it everybody has some suffering or sadness, problem, misery, difficulty, everybody, from A to Z, everybody has that. Everybody. If not this then that, if not this then that. If not the girlfriend then it’s the boyfriend, if not the boyfriend the husband, if not the husband then the wife, something or another. If not then the […].If not that, then the health. Something or another, everybody has suffering, misery. From our face we smile nicely, but under that we have misery and sadness. Everybody. It is the nature of life. It is the result of bad karma. It is the samsaric life. It is not the creation of the good ones. It is the creation of bad karma. So therefore it is suffering. Where does this karma come from? Our previous deeds have created it. This is not bad. Could be worse! We could be like a dog running around the street. Everybody’s maybe throwing stones at it. Maybe a skunk! Nobody wants to come nearby. Could be. But it is not bad. But however it is, bad enough, each one of us may think: I have a problem. I’m difficult.

0:53:22.3

I am sick, I don’t have enough, I don’t have this. I can’t manage, I can’t bear it. I can’t take it anymore. Each one of us will have that. Nobody will say ‘ I’m happy, completely happy, cannot be better.’ If they do it, it’s a lie. Because you have a lot of problems within. Either you try to cover it up, Try to avoid or try to run away from the problem. Something or another, everybody will have. This is what we share common. A commonly shared thing. Because it is karmic result. Each one of them shaped by every deed, every minute whatever we did in our previous life makes this happen. So, knowing that, seeing that then if you look in our future, then our present spiritual practice really makes importance. Otherwise it is not valid for whatsoever. We think there is value, because so or so thinks so. We think it is good because all good people said so. That is simply our reasoning. That’s not good enough. Not good enough.

0:55:19.0

We have to personalise our practice. Personally we have to see that the practice makes difference in our future. If we cannot understand now, clearly, we should work it. We should pray for it. We don’t pray for to have more money. We pray to get better understanding. So, once we begin to have that, spiritual practice begins to make sense. Otherwise what? You sit here and say…Luckily we have English right? Otherwise you go: ‘Sangye…’ and the words doesn’t mean anything. You don’t even understand what the word is. You go on: ‘Yayaya, chapchapchap’ what is that for? No purpose whatsoever. That’s what I think. We should sometimes raise this funny question to ourself. And that question, whatever is the answer I receive whatever I see, what will be my future, is equally to everyone of us. It is equally the same as to my friend, same answer to my dear, to my nearest, same answer to my father, to my mother, same answer to my girlfriend, same answer to my boyfriend. That makes what really spirituality is. We begin to understand. That makes us to think going beyond. That should have been the source of inspiration. When I receive complaints and seeing that we have no source of inspiration. When I hear that, what I am hearing is: I have no understanding of spirituality. That’s what I hear between the lines. Between the sentences I hear that.

0:58:14.0

So, that’s…the life, when you begin to compare, this life is a very short period. Whatever it might be, a very short period we have. Compare with whole life it is nothing. Some of them even refer to it as within a minute [Tibetan] There it is even referred to like a minute. It is almost that. So, the future is more longer, more difficulty, more harder and more deeper and much more than the present.

We … When I was watching from the window over there…we see these squirrels around here. Picking up the food. Even the apples! They pick up whole apples with their little tales they pick it up and carry. And what are they doing? They save for the winter, right? They’re taking it, bury it somewhere for winter. Right or wrong? Squirrels do that. Why? They know the winter is going to be difficult for them. So they know they need it to eat. That’s why they carry and save, the squirrels. We as spiritual persons should know that the future is difficult. We should know that’s the me, the only me that goes through. Not a second or third person. We have a tendency to look, although we accept ‘I go from here to my future’, although we accept, somehow whatever the reason may be we do accept. Within that acceptance a degree, we can see it, somehow it looks like another person came out of my body and is going. Maybe some lice comes out the body. Like that. Or some…hehèhè… Maybe some people…it has lice in the body, it comes out, right? We look in a similar manner to what’s happening. Similar, in that manner we look: Some kind of third being is coming out of our body and is going into some kind of future we see. And this is our problem. This is a fault. The same Me who is answering ‘Hey you” ‘You mean me?’ That same person who says ‘me’ is going and that very same person who carries the thing. We have to acknowledge that. If there’s a third person coming somebody has to appear in between and pop up from nowhere. It’s not going to happen. It’s continuation of a being. Otherwise there should be some being created within no cause, nowhere, in between some…pop up out of nowhere. It is not going to work. It is this way we’ll be continually going. It’s the same being. Not a piece of something else. Lice or a flee jumping of a dog’s body. It is not. It is the real same being. So once we begin to associate ourself and seeing this as a part of me. It is me who is really going, not a movie we’re seeing. We see movies, people die in the movie and they get up and become a ghost. We see that, right? So it looks like a third person we see. It is not. It’s the same being. It’s not a movie. It is real.

1:03:38.9

Audience: I have this question that what some people do they just so shape whoever they are right now and they try to become this other thing and they think that they. Are you saying that if one is really right where they are, if this is who we are, we’re not gonna make some big jump. In other words to get to the future life you have to make it happen now in the sense that this present life is the only place you can really purify and do dharma-work and you can create a future life by the work you do wherever you are, right?

GR: Well at this moment where are we? We’re only where we are. We can do nothing anywhere else except at this moment in this life. We can do nothing anywhere else. This is the only life we have. Right? So from here we’ll go to our future life and that’s going to be the only life we have. Thereafter another future life, another future life, another… But at this moment we only have this one. Nothing else. Nowhere. Right? It is like a poor man’s bank balance. Only one account in one bank with one number. It is not: An investment there and here and there… We don’t have that. So, only this life. That’s all we have, nothing else. So, that’s only this one. They say there’s only this one, that’s true. Then you move to another one which will be the result of this, and then you only have that one, nothing else. And I’ve talked very often about this life as an apartment. This life, this body is like a rented apartment. We live in the apartment as long as we can. The moment the apartment is no longer usable for us, whatever the reason might be, we move out. Either we cannot afford, or the house is collapsing, or you get a better opportunity, or the ceiling falls on your bed, whatever the reason might be, when we cannot, we cannot. We have to move. Just like that our life is the same thing. As long as it is serviceable to us we remain in there. The moment it is not serviceable we have to move. But we only have one life. We want to have two lives.

1:07:39.8

A lot of people think there are two lives. I don’t believe it. I think there’s only one life.

Audience: …lower life is really…

GR: What do you mean by higher and lower? There’s only one life. If you show me another life either you or I have I will be very happy to look at it. We cannot. We may project some kind of spiritual life behind this shadow blablabla. Or some people may say you carry a bag. Some kind of shadow bag and you pour things in there. I don’t think it is really reality at all. Yes we do talk about shadow and body, but the shadow is our karma which will follow like the shadow follows wherever the body moves. That’s the karma. The karma is the karma. I don’t think it’s a separate body. It is not a separate life. This is the only life. Whether you make this life spiritually oriented or material oriented, or virtuous oriented or non-virtuous oriented that is in our hands. I think that’s what we call spiritual.

1:09:06.7

Doesn’t make sense?

Audience: If we take refuge in Buddha and we establish spiritual practices and Mahayana practice. Does this mean that in this next life we’ll be brought to that path again. Will we be brought to that knowledge again? Or does that mean nothing of the sort?

GR: Interisting question. I like to have somebody else’s opinion. Supa?

Audience: I don’t know for sure but judging by other things I see in my life. Cause and effect. Some effect is that what we actually do seems to be geared toward that ….We dedicate. That was about the last thing you said. You gonna have to create the causes for that to happen. . In theory it will happen but I think we have to actually make some effort in that direction. Just like if you want to take up some kind of skill you’ll have to go to school for it. You create the causes. We’re learning right now. Just like when you learn a certain skill, somebody tells you ‘you have to do this’ to get good at it. At first it might not make sense but you just keep doing it and then you start to realise after a while ‘yes it makes sense, even those little mundane things…it just all came together. I know I can do this more complicated thing. You need all these little causes to be able to do it. Then it makes sense.

GR: Let’s look this way: Taking refuge to Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. Is it like signing a contract or is it like throwing in an application for school? I don’t believe we sign a contract. The whole idea behind…Buddha has nothing to give, Buddha has nothing to take. It is only me and me alone who can do or undo. You know what I mean. My future I have to shape, and I have to [perfect]. Not by Buddha. So signing of a contract will not rise. We cannot say we take refuge to you. You guarantee for our future. It’s not like that. When that is happening then Buddha has something to give you. He doesn’t. Making habitual patterns change is also I have to do it. Not by Buddha. Buddha doesn’t change my habitual habits. Otherwise Buddha is my driver. Buddha will be driving me. No.

Audience: If we make practice. If we…

GR: I have a question to you: When you say we make practice habit. What does that mean? I know what we mean. Could you give me a little more about practice habit. You mean to say Every day I meditate, or what do you mean?

Audience: Turn your consciousness and awareness and your focus…That’s my question, I don’t know if this happens. When you die is that retaining your practices so that you come back again to it and find the path again in your next life. Or what you can do to make that happen. Or is it just automatic because you made vows. I don’t think in my heart that is so because you made vows that’s what you want but it doesn’t make it happen. How do you do that.

GR: Supa made it quite clear didn’t he?

Audience: Is it like courtship…How is it different…You said Buddha doesn’t drive us, maybe we drive Buddha. We try to have this union relationship with a potential within it with that person. Like a dream. But also if someone say Buddha found enlightenment he is not teaching Buddhism. He is showing a path that you can travel yourself. By travelling this you don’t become buddha, external buddha. You gain these, you have this relationship with earth…

GR: You say you don’t become external buddha but

Audience: …coming through. You try to find these qualities within yourself.

GR: Within yourself…How would you findthe qualities of the buddha within yourself? Is it a matter of one fine morning hit, or is it matter of greater process?

Audience: Greater process

GR: Right. So the very gradual process means developing buddha within you. As long as you see it is not: One fine morning you wake up and become a buddha. Okay? As long as you don’t see this you’re on a right track. As long as you see: One fine morning you’re going to find you’re a buddha, it’s never going to happen. Never. When you become a buddha you don’t become an external buddha but internal buddha. The internal buddha gradually builds up from today. Even today when we talk about it we’re building. We’re saying: Future life is more important than this life. Future life is linger and more deeper and much more dangerous and valuable and more urgent than this life, we’re building a certain path and it might even be one percent out of one percent of the buddha-path. We’re building that portion up. And these portions when you build up, that is how you rise the buddha within yourself. Rather than looking for something to pop up like that. And coming back to the students question: What happens to build up the knowledge and information or the development or the qualities that we build up now, do we carry that over? As far as the information part of it, as far as the knowledge part of it, we don’t. But as far as the quality part of it we do. That is the whole reason I keep on shouting: the practice has to be habit. It’s not something you like to do. Something which you have to do. Try to make it habit. The reason is if it becomes habit or habitual pattern of a being that becomes personally associated. It becomes a part of the habit of that individual which will be able to move beyond that. Carry it over. If it is only information, whether it is intellectual or academic information, we have to leave it here and go. But when it becomes part and parcel of your character and your habitual pattern, it goes with you. The qualities that you build in is not something externally that comes in. It is something more than information, more than intellectual, becoming part and parcel of the individual. It becomes the life of the individual. You’ll be able to move it. You may be. You masy not be apble to remember, you have it. Some children when they’re born, immediately from that time onwards they say Hey killing is bad. When they see somebody killing they cry, scream, run away. Some children, the moment they’re born they like to kill. Even little ant that goes around they like to step on it. They like to kill it. They like to see that. Where does that come from? It is the previous habitual patterns […]. I always tell: The parents always like to say ‘Oh this movie the children cannot watch’And it says: Don’t watch by children under certain age without parental guidance. We try to hide. Children cannot see it. But the children learned before us. We are good at hiding but they learn better than us. Why? It’s the previous life’s experience and habitual patterns that is repeated. You don’t have to teach them. They know it. We try to hide it. But you’ll be surprised: At age of seven say and doing thing…that’s their previous. Automatically some like to kill some like to see even killing. It’s a simple example we’re giving. That is what we’re talking about: Nothing happens in this life. As ordinary being we’re that and we take rebirth in future. Even then our habitual patterns will carry on. Sitting talking thinking of the Dharma will go a long way into that future life because it becomes part of us, provided if we take it as a part. The person who presents dharma will try to present dharma as part of life rather than the book says this and that says this, it becomes a dry academic subject. It is good to hear it Maybe it is dharma, but otherwise… If you become part and parcel of it in your personal life and every single minute we spend on, will count a lot in the future.

1:24:48.9

Similarly, vice versa if we’re taught how to kill, how to murder, how to steal, it will do the same thing and it becomes personalised. The next life will do the same. It is very heavy one it will be directly result oriented. If it is soft one it will go like that, the child will show the same way. Otherwise why should you? Two kids: One will not like to kill, one will like to kill. We see that very often. Why? No reason. Same parents, same mother and father, even same food go to the same school, learn the same thing, why come out two different ones?

Anyway, I talk a lot of rubbish, I’m sorry. But I think it is important as a spiritual practitioner we also have to see the future. If we never think that, if we just keep on building in this life, it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t reach very far. So, remember the future is more, is much longer. Compared to our future the present life is like a minute or a second. Much longer and much deeper and more harder and more difficult, or more easier or better it depends. The key lies here, today. And when you realise that the spiritual practice makes sense. Otherwise…

Audience: All the argument…I feel very strongly that having the conviction of rebirth, this is first of all the basis for beginning a spiritual practice. And second that is an enormous step that shouldn’t be overlooked. Let’s just assume that once you have this you begin spiritual practice. In fact I think it is essential to make the connection of once’s very own immediate existence with the future lives before you begin to operate on the basis of I’m here for the benefit of future lives.

1:27:53.0

GR: I don’t even say that.

Audience: You’ve mentioned that whenever it sounds logical, when you come to the point that you think about future lives…You taled about Tibet. We never had to face this because we all are born, sort of assuming because of our culture and society, we never have to doubt about future lives. Everybody thinks about future lives. My feeling is for Tibetans they never really get a change to get convinced about future lives, because somehow it is already settled for them. And that means they never confront the issue of are there future lives. They never think about it. That’s their loss. I think for Westerners it’s an obstacle for initial practice, but it is a benefit for getting into practice when they really question. And some of the arguments and the logic is used to promote the answer. We use logic to really shape the answer and support the answer to such an extend that the question really becomes irrelevant. And then the logic is also expendable if it doesn’t really support the answer. So, Buddha says there are future lives and there are all these arguments that support that. But there are so many things that you could say, to use the same logic to refute future lives. And will come up with an alternate view of explanation about future lives. I think that that doubt is essential for people to confront to really have a basis. Otherwise at some point or another their conviction about future lives will give in on itself and they don’t practice anymore, somehow being lost.

GR: I totally agree with you. However if we realise that every single thing is a result of our before action, if we see that, then this danger of collapsing never rises.

Audience: Buddha never said that the basis for spiritual practice begins at the point in which you act in consideration of future lives. Je Tsongkhapa started with the system of the three scopes as far as I know. Buddha didn’t say to [Ayunumala] when he tried to kill him: Don’t do this because think of the effects in your future lives are so much longer.

GR: That’s different because [Aynungulumala] you can’t say ‘think about the future life’ I don’t think he thinks about a future life. But, actually he thinks ‘future life’ and that’s why he is killing. Because he was told: If you can kill one thousand human beings within seven days you’ll be liberated. That’s why he is going around and killing everybody. So, he is thinking about a future life and that’s why he is killing. Therefore Buddha doesn’t have to say: Think about future life… But I never knew Buddha has not mention it for the karma.

Audience: He mentioned karma.

GR: Essence of Buddhism is [Tibetan] Avoid all the non-virtuous, create as virtuous as possible. Most important: Control your mind. That is Buddhism, right? [Tibetan] This is Buddhism, that’s what Buddha said, right? So Buddhism is avoid non-virtuous and create positive and control mind. Why avoid non-virtuous? Because it brings bad result. Why create good, positive? Because it brings good result. Why you have to control your mind? Controlling your mind is the key, because the mind is the one that creates good and bad karma. Therefore the key is the mind, so be mindful. That is the essence of Buddhism. Whether buddha said it at the beginning, or medium or at the end, it is the essence of Buddhism. It is really the key.

Audience: Mindfulness reveals the key and the interconnectedness of the present and the future as being present. So, I don’t think people are sitting here in this room because of thinking of future lifetimes and it compels them to practice. I think that raises the question what really sparks people’s interest in spiritual practice. Whether it is anything. Lot’s of people prepare for future lifetime, so in burials lots of food and money is left for them so do Chinese emperors. Does that help them? If we make preparations four our future lifetime without acknowledging really, who am I?

GR; Okay, according to you the priority should be: Who am I is more important than what the future life is.

Audience: At this stage, yes.

GR: Does anybody know who am I? Beside being a buddha can you tell a single person who can tell who am I. Do you know? Who are you? Can you tell me who are you?

[End of recording]