Archive Result

Soundfile 19900922GRLR4

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Ann Arbor

Topic Lamrim

Transcriber Robin Trimarchi

Date 04082023

(Note: student comments and questions are quoted, paraphrased, and edited to give context to Rimpoche’s responses)

0:00:00.0 … this equanimity is out of Seven Stage development. Out of the Seven Stage development from the equanimity to love, you have to put in this equanimity here. Huh? He did not understand. (Name) did not understand. Did (name) understand? Then could you say it again? [student replies: that in this system, of the five points, equanimity that you develop contains all the points that in the seven points of developing go from equanimity all the way until the development of love. In other words, remembering the seeing mother beings, remembering the kindness, desire to repay, like that, and then until you get to love. So, all that is contained here in equanimity. Love is before compassion.] Okay. [students talk among themselves] Huh? Seven. Seven. Okay, seven only, their talking about seven. Now, okay, any problem with (name)? Okay. So, okay everything? Now on top of that, does anybody have a Lama Chopa book? [side talk. Tape stops and resumes] … look in the Lama Chopa, that uh, verse 84 (note: verse 55 in more recent JH prayer books). ‘There is no difference between ourself and others. No one wishes even the slightest suffering or is ever content with the happiness she has.’ This book has [?] ‘he has.’ Okay. (chuckles) Ah, ‘Realizing this, we seek your blessing that we may enhance the bliss and joy of others.’

DUK NGEL TRA MO TSAM YANG MI DHÖ CHING

DHE LA NAM YANG CHOH SHEY MEY PAR NI

DAG DANG ZHAN LA KEY PAR YÖ MIN ZHEN

ZHAN CHE GA WA KYE PAR JIN GYI LOP

0:03:02.9 Why they say ‘bliss and joy?’ Why? Why bliss? [student inaudible] Why? They did say b-l-i-s-s-, [?], right? [students reply: just to make more syllables] Huh? [student continues: I think they’re just trying, the sentence is too short …] Or maybe the bliss is little more, more romantic. [students comment, inaudible] Even (name) laughing. Okay.

DUK NGEL TRA MO TSAM YANG MI DHÖ CHING

DHE LA NAM YANG CHOH SHEY MEY PAR NI

DAG DANG ZHAN LA KEY PAR YÖ MIN ZHEN

ZHAN DHE GA WA KYE PAR JIN GYI LOP

The Tibetans say ZHAN DHE GA WA KYE PAR JIN GYI LOP. ZHAN DHE GA WA KYE PAR JIN GYI LOP. ZHAN DHE GA WA KYE PAR JIN GYI LOP. ZHAN DHE GA WA KYE PAR JIN GYI LOP. DUK NGEL TRA MO TSAM YANG MI DHÖ CHING. There is no difference between ourself and others. What is ‘no,’ what is ‘no difference between ourself and others’ of what? No one wishes even the slightest suffering. DUK NGEL TRA MO TSAM YANG MI DHÖ CHING. That’s a very good translation. DHE LA NAM YANG CHOH SHEY MEY PAR NI. Or is ever content with the happiness he has. DAG DANG ZHAN LA KEY PAR YÖ MIN ZHEN. That’s good. ZHAN DHE GA, the fourth word’s not right. ZHAN DHE GAR, the Tibetan says, ZHAN DHE GA WA KYE PAR JIN GYI LOP, meaning here, the other’s happiness, I may be blessed to be able to make, to be able to cherish other’s happiness. [side comment] ZHAN DHE GA WA KYE PAR JIN GYI LOP. Okay. That’s it. So, that is how we have to think. This is giving you the meditation on that. Okay?

0:06:00.3 (long pause) [side talk] … we have to think here. [student: that’s what we have to think, ok] This is the major meditation of equanimity here. Okay? So, the equal between you, me, and others, there is no difference what I want and want they want. And no one wishes even the slightest suffering. That is equal between me and other. Or is ever content with the happiness he or she has. That is equal between me and others. So, what I need to do, is I need to recognize that. I need to recognize that. Unless, until I recognize that, I will be having the barriers, the barriers, you know, these days we see a lot on television when these, ah, American forces go into the desert and the African desert, not African desert, the Middle Eastern desert (chuckles). Wrong year. And uh, and uh, south Arabian desert, and they build up all this, uh, um, what you call those? Barriers. So, barriers are to protect. Right? To protect, um, the bullet coming. Right? If the Saddam Hussein chose to attack, so they wanted protect this bullet [?]. So, what we normally do, we build ourself, we build a human barriers. With or without realizing. If anything comes on my way, so you have to, to, to, if you’re going, if anything comes on your, my way, I want get them out.

0:09:02.1 Not to go on my way. But anything attack comes on me, I want them on the way, so that I not been hurt, and others. So, we sacrifice others for my happiness. Don’t we do that? We do. That is what we’re building, eh, sentient, other sentient beings’ barrier, whether we can or cannot, but we’re doing it. Not only we’re being other sentient beings’ barrier, we’re building a barrier of, uh, um, human beings. We sacrifice other human beings for our, whether big, small, whatever way, we do it. Right? Bigger way. Somebody’s shooting bullets, you hide behind some human beings. So, or you push that human being in front of you, whatever it is, you do. So, that’s the bigger way we sacrifice them. I don’t think we will hesitate to do that. Hide behind somebody. And uh, that might not be often happen to us. But what will, what happen normally to us is to save our embarrassment. To save my embarrassment, we try to sacrifice lot of others in between. And that is a clear sign we have not recognize the equal of my needs and others’ needs. I need comfort, you need comfort. And I don’t recognize that. Right? [student comment: inaudible, something about the barriers] Sacrificing other beings for saving your own face. [student continues: way you call it barrier?] It’s like, eh, when the bullet comes you hide behind. [student comment: human shield]. Yeah. [student comment: inaudible. Second student: Are you saying then that we should put, then we should be the barriers.] No, not saying it. I’m not saying that. I’m not saying that we should be barrier. I’m not saying, yet. I’m simply saying that, that we don’t recognize the importantness of the equalness. So therefore, we will have no hesitation to put human barrier. And that’s what Bush is doing.

0:12:03.4 We know very well. It is the quarrel between Bush and Hussein, personality issue or whatever it is, is eh, and he had no hesitation to put American people there to fight. Because he doesn’t have to [?], he doesn’t have to go, his son doesn’t have to go. [student comment: But Rimpoche, what you said at first was about building barriers between ourselves and others.] I didn’t say that. I’m using human beings as barrier. We do. [student comment: Okay, that was not, it wasn’t what I heard, and that’s not what (name) wrote down, too.] What did she write down? [student continues: same thing as I did. Putting barriers between ourselves and others. Second student: that we have barriers that we erect, whether we’re conscious or unconscious of it.] Yeah. I’m glad, uh, (name) raised that question clearly. Because he said she’s not clear. So, probably not, probably I’ve not said clear. Did you hear clearly, okay, (name)? [students repond: maybe have Rimpoche repeat … barriers has another meaning in English. (comment inaudible). Second student: I think, too, people think a lot about this kind of thing and it’s easy to make a mistake.] Alright. That’s no big deal for me. What did you hear, (name)? [student replies: I think the word ‘barrier’ is not the best English word …] Okay. Okay. So, should I use ‘shield?’ [student: that’s better] Uh huh. Now, the idea, what I’m having is, we’re not recognizing the equal needs, equal, we’re not recognizing. The sign of not recognizing that, is we’re willing and capable of sacrificing others. That is the clear sign. It is that better now? Sorry I used the word ‘barrier,’ ‘shield,’ and all this type of thing. (Name)’s not happy (chuckles). Why didn’t you say that from the beginning? I don’t have to write that. What are you thinking? [student replies: I sort of like the other, the other concept was easier for me to work with than this present concept.] Okay, so. We, we, I meant the, the, the sacrifice is also not a great word. Because the moment we say ‘human sacrifice’, you get different picture. Right? [student comment: I think that what you said about the trenches and protecting yourself is actually really clear.] That is actual sign. We, we protect ourself, ah, at the expense of the other. We will have no hesitate … (name) want say something. [student comment: I think that hiding …]

0:15:00.3 [… the ‘hiding’ might work the best. If somebody’s coming at you, really trying to say you’ve done something, so you deflect it, you hide behind somebody else, you say, ‘well, no, actually it might have been them.’ Or the idea that somebody’s threatening you and you’d rather hide behind somebody else rather than take it, you’re not thinking that the other person doesn’t want to take it either.] That’s also true. On the other hand, if the threat doesn’t harm the other person, and the threat harms you, then I don’t think there’s a [?] problem of taking shelter behind that. That’s, that’s another, on other hand. But the whole idea is, you know, suppose if there’s somebody comes up and, with a gun and started shooting you, and we will have no hesitation to hide behind of somebody. [student question: hide behind another person?] Behind another person. I’m quite sure you will do. [student comment: what do you mean, Rimpoche, is the idea of, uh, that we don’t see that we are all equal, so we see ourselves as more important. And for the sake of our importance, we sacrifice others …] We sacrifice. That is, that’s, yeah, that is what I have this barrier in mind. Okay. [students talk over.] That’s what I have the barrier in mind. [student comment: the opposite example would be that if there’s a plane crash and they find the body of the mother shielding the child that was saved because she put her body between the impact of the crash and the baby.] That’s right. That’s that. [students continue to talk over] That’s it. That’s it. That’s it. You know why? The mother’s love and care for baby has no hesitation to sacrifice mother itself, so therefore, that’s what happened. So, when you develop the bodhimind, we should not have sacrificing our own body for the benefit of others. That’s exactly how it, I’m glad you raised that. Opposite of it. But we don’t have that, yet. That is very difficult to reach. So, but in order to reach there, first we have to see the equalness (equal needs?) of it. To develop importantness. I seek happiness, you seek happiness, you’re a human being, I’m a human being, what difference there? And sign of our, you know, lot of us, we have a problem. Lot of us will think, ‘I’m not bad. I have great care, I have great love for others,’ this and that.

0:18:02.4 Nobody will say I don’t care for others. Whatever the reason might be. Some do care, truly. Some don’t care, but however, they think they care. Some people, they like to, to be that way because that’s the good way, at least. So, they do it. So, we need of, also sign to ourself. The sign of recognizing myself that I have not developed equal because if somebody walks in the middle of it, and started shooting, we’ll be hiding. I mean, if there is furniture, of course, we will go behind it, for sure. No question. But if there is nothing, we’ll go behind another human being. And uh, so, that is clearly tells you, uh, the self-cherishing’s more important within me. I mean, this is sign to use to my own self. You know what I mean? So, that’s why I use the word ‘human barrier,’ ‘barrier,’ and blah, blah, blah. And then this shield business. And hiding behind, and all this came in because of that reason. But if you love somebody, and you care so much for somebody, you have no hesitation to go in front of it and putting that other at your back. So, that is the sign how it works in the mind. I mean, it is without intellectual influence, without thinking, what you call it? Instinct, or, instantly happened is, that’s what will happen. If you care, if you look in somebody who care and love somebody, they will jump in the middle. Right? [student comment: So, our goal is to have that response instinctively for every sentient being. Like a mother’s care for her child, jumping in front of to save the life of, or do whatever.] Well, that is, eh, extreme of the other side. But eh, for equanimity, you don’t need that far. [student continues: I understand. But the development of the bodhimind.] Yeah, yeah. I mean, development of love, actually development love and compassion will be like that. Just opposite way what functioning now. Yeah? [student question: I want to ask about (GR calls on different student). Second student: I may be repeating, but, very often we talk about thinking of other being as our mothers … here when we talk about developing this compassion, it might even be reasonable to think about, realize, that we have been the mother for all these other beings, too.]

0:21:03.4 Yeah, you can think that way. Doesn’t matter. There’s no objection. [student continues: in other times I have been this person’s mother] Yes, mom. (chuckles) Okay. That’s fine. [student comment: discusses a book written by a holocaust survivor who was a bitter man and in poor health. He began to go into his past and realizing that he in fact had been saved by some kind German family that protected him. And in the last 20 years had done exhaustive research on what makes a person altruistic. It’s called “Compassionate Beast Within.” It’s about interviews with people who have jumped off bridges to save people, who have gone into tunnels to save people, and so forth. They invariably said that they could not live with themselves had they not done that. Their instinct was to act altruistically, to act to save, and usually with strangers, people with whom they had no former contact but saw that they were in great suffering and they need to help. So, it was interesting because I think so many of us think of survival of the fittest. That we would … maybe one doesn’t know until one is confronted with running in front of a car to save someone until that very moment, would we do it. He was making strong case for altruism, or that instinct being within each of us, as well.] Mm hmm. That is very important point. Yes? [student comment: … talk about a more middle kind of case, we talk about cases on either end, and that would be like in the (?) ethical teachings, they site an example of, maybe there are four people in the desert and there is enough water for two of them to survive, but all four won’t survive if they share the water. What should one do?] I’ll tell, I’ll tell you what you do. One should take all the water and go and get help for the others. [student continues: that’s very practical, but the way they set it up, that’s not possible.] Why not? [student continues: because they up the example so that is not a solution.] There are lot of examples there. I mean, true examples what had happened. [student continues: but what they say is, that’ s it’s all up here …]

0:23:58.9 Yeah, there’s a lot of, lot of other things. What happened, there’s a family stranded some place where there is nothing, and no food available, one day they found some kind of dead dog or something. The father eat all of them, ate all of them (the dog), and then he went and got help and saved everybody. And if it’s divided all of them, eh, divided to all of them, they’re not going to, to survive. That sort of, there are lot of those examples. True, true, true things had happened in India. And uh, there lot of those stories are there. Why you want middle? [student continues: because, that’s a sensible answer you’re giving. But they why they set up the example, it’s not possible, and what they’re saying is …] Is it true incident that happened, or somebody’s clever that thought … [student continues: … they create all these conditions] Well, well, then that is, eh, that’s like, eh, that’s like a jigsaw puzzle problem, right? [student continues: well, rabbis like to do that. But the answer they gave, is that your life is as sacred as anyone else’s, so, you shouldn’t give up your part of the water. But that never made sense to me because (pauses), I like your answer better.] Thank you. [student continues: and if one dies, one dies waiting for help. Second student: not even waiting for help. With the understanding that by giving up their life, they may be able to save others. First student: I read a story once about a case in the holocaust where there was a nun who gave her papers, she knew she would be allowed to live because she wasn’t Jewish, and she gave her identity papers, she traded them with another woman. The nun was killed, and the other woman survived. But her reasoning was that she wasn’t fearful of death, or what would happen. Her motivation was, it was more important to save someone else.] Or, or she thought she can be protected under the gown of the nuns. It’s not that easy. [student continues: she wasn’t wearing the gown of the nun, she was dressed like a normal person. But she had identity papers. She gave her protection to someone else.] Good. That’s, that’s, that’s altruistic. Unquestionable altruistic. Anyway. So, these are the example. But what we are trying to do here, we’re not trying to give even example. We’re try to say, to find myself, whether I really have this equal mind of considering me important or other important. Do I have that equanimity or not is the question when somebody comes up here with a gun, and then we will know.

0:27:05.0 So, that is the, that’s (what) I’m try to say. Okay? So, you can, you can imagine, somebody walked in and then, then don’t make it up. If you make it up, you will see that you’re jumping around and acting hero. Don’t make it up. But if you don’t make it up, and somebody just walk in with gun, and they just stop there, and see how your mind work, it’s immediately you’re hiding. There’s not furniture in the house. And then a lot of people, you’ll be jumping behind people. Straightaway. So, that is the sign. Huh? [student comment: we’ll jump behind you] Well, I’ll be jumping behind you. (chuckles) What happened? [side talk] Good. So, tell you it, now, tell, that sort of position comes, so, then, it’s very hard for us to accept that we do not cherish others. Ah, we don’t honor other’s things. So, we all like to be, admitting to be champion of, um, [student comment: I just want to say something to that. Sometimes, I think that in extreme situations, that sometimes people act more compassionate, more altruistic, than they do in daily life. And for me, the test isn’t so much, would I jump behind somebody else and let them get killed. I think that’s less likely than the daily situations of my own comfort versus somebody else’s, my this versus somebody else’s, my job versus somebody else … all those things, and I thinks that’s true for a lot of people, that that reflects more, very often in extreme situations something does come out of someone, and they go, wow, everybody’s suffering, or everybody’s afraid, or everybody’s having that problem, but often that isn’t present moment to moment in the smaller things that comprise our daily life and our attitudes and behaviors.] Yeah, I did give extreme example, for sure. But eh, yeah, daily life is also, also important point. But um, [student comment: daily life is even more difficult, because you have to maintain it so many times during the day. There’re so many opportunities to do something like that.] But we, it’s not necessary you have to do it that way.

0:30:00.0 You know, my point is, my point is, it’s not necessary you have to do it that way. Uh, my point is to check oneself, whether we have that mind or not is whether you can, whether we are capable of doing that or not. And that is the main point. Okay, so, it’s not the main point of there have to be gunman comes in, and you have to be jumping around. That’s not the main point. The main point is to check, to make cross check, whether, do I have that equanimity or not. If I’m capable of doing that, then I do have equanimity. If I’m not capable of doing that, it is sign of I’m not having this equanimity. Is that clear. Okay. That is the point. It’s not the point that what you have to meditate or not. It is the point is, you know. That’s what it is. [student comment: … taking advantage of others, in general, means that there’s no equanimity.] Taking advantage of others is clearly showing that person doesn’t really have equanimity. That’s why all business people doesn’t have equanimity because they have to take advantage of others. Or that means we forgot to talk the business yesterday. (chuckles) We forgot to talk taking advantage of others. [student comment: just practically speaking in a business situation, where you are in a position where you’re confronted also with people whose idea, I’m understanding now that basically, a person’s needs for happiness and for comfort and all of that is the same within each of us. I get confused when people’s needs, what they think will make them happy, and I’m in a work situation with them, and it clearly would not be good for the group or something. I used to get walked over because I’d say, well your, you, and then I’d feel bad and end up creating a non-virtue by getting very angry about that. I’m trying to figure out the balance of how you work with people whose idea of what will make them happy, and the idea of what might be better … is this making sense?] I think there is some kind of problem there. What is that problem? (Name), can you clarify that problem? All this questions, and then simultaneously, there lot of other questions comes up saying that, ‘well, if I do this, am I taking advantage of others …

0:33:07.9 … If I do this, I, am I sort of overriding my, my priority over others. Lot of those things comes up. Why? What is the problem? [student replies: I figure the problem is a matter of … ] If I remember correctly, I talked to you, didn’t I? [student continues: … the balance and compassion for the self. (GR: yes) Yeah. I mean, (?) the word out. That the problem is that both those things have to be present. You can’t really be compassionate and be affectively compassionate if you lack that compassion for yourself. You can’t skip that and say okay, I’m just going to leap into being compassionate for other people.] Now, the preliminary here, Common with the Medium Level and Common with the Lower Level is totally focused on the individual. Okay? So, the Lamrim stage, when you build up, you don’t lose, you don’t destroy what have you have built earlier. And uh, you keep on building it up, on top of it. You don’t, you don’t destroy what you built earlier. So, you keep what you built earlier, and on top of that you build up. So therefore, you can’t lose the balance. (Name) [student comments: what was said by (name) is really something that I come by often. That you can see that what the group consensus is, is something what they want to do, is something that you perceive to be non-virtuous. And because you’re part of the group, and in a democracy, majority rules …] You have to go. [student continues: … you have to go along] Oh, yeah, sure. And if you don’t go along, you become coo-coo. [student continues: that’s right. I know about that.] You do know about that. Good. [student continues: … so, how do you purify that within yourself. You’re taking part in something that you view at non-virtuous.] That’s alright. That’s alright. Doesn’t matter because it’s not your decision. You’re going along with the other people. So, you purify that. It is not your particular karma, it is common karma. And uh, I mean, you can’t, you can’t. You have to go along with that. You can’t say, ‘this is non-virtuous, you shouldn’t do.’ No. It doesn’t work. [student continues: but if you see a potential problem because of this idea, is it appropriate to speak up …]

0:36:08.5 [… or is it better not to say anything?] Well, the, I, what I will do under circumstances, my voice is not going to carry out anywhere. So, I might well as keep quiet. Even you raise, even you raise your voice, you’re not going to be, going to have effect at all. So therefore, fore, might well as keep quiet. Why? You have compassion to yourself. Why you paint yourself different picture than the others do? So, keep yourself, keep quiet, and purify. Though, people will argue, if you voice yourself, and then, ah, then somebody else will voice, somebody else will voice, in the larger context of the country or such a thing, it is possible. When the smaller company grew from where they are, profit-making oriented idea, where they are is not going to be, not going to be effective at all. So therefore, instead of helping by voicing, it get more harm. So, sort of thinking, this fellow thinks totally different, it’s not good. So there, [student talks over GR] the people look you as negatively, so therefore, not only it helps, but it becomes double negative. So therefore, better to avoid. Better (?) just keep quiet, go along with that. Do yourself purification. That’s about it. [student comment: that reminds me of a concept of Buddhism being the middle road. We have so many …] Too much adjustment, isn’t it? [student continues: we have so many examples of the heroine, for example of Karen Silkwood, who knew of something going wrong and she sacrificed herself, an example of where her company was putting out all sorts of poison, and she sacrificed herself and was killed. But in the long run, her company’s abuses became known … So, I guess we have a lot of examples of where that is not looked upon as being a very virtuous way of doing it.]Well, if you’re, if you’re capable of doing that way and become a her(o)…, becoming that way and effect to, capable of doing it. And that’s neither tremendous amount of luck, or fortune, and karmic, all sorts of things. And you know, that might be one example of somebody what had happened. But you don’t get a thousand of example. You can get tens, maybe about hundred or so, but you don’t get thousands, or you don’t millions out of millions and millions of population.

0:39:05.3 You don’t get that. Why? Because you need a lot of karmic connections there. Really. You need lot of karma, lot of, lot of those things there. So, more or less, um, ah, I mean, it’s just way of thinking. More or less, uh, more or less I may not make much dent on it, and uh, you know, what you do is, you have self-compassion. And uh, you purify yourself, go along. I will do that, that’s me. [student comment: another example might be in the Nixon years. Many of us watched many people say that they only did it because he did it, etc. And we might be hearing again in this S&L crisis. It’s fine for me to go along with it if this other did it.] Yeah, but eh, but eh, but eh, but eh, but eh, yeah, that’s true, but eh, I think you, somehow, you have to draw line. I mean, this is going too far, isn’t it, in case of Nixon and Oliver North and all this type of thing is going too much. I mean, there’s no question. That’s just now two years ago that that happened, right? So, there’s no question Reagan told them, lie to Congress. There’s no question. It is very clear. Right? Reagan told them to lie to Congress. That’s no, there’s no doubt about it. You can make, you can see between their faces. Right? Very clear, you can see it. But eh, yeah, but eh, uh, but they followed because he said so. Right? They follow it. And that, that they should have got in writing or something, you know. (chuckles) [student comment: I think you need to make a distinction between extremes, too, Rimpoche. Different to go, oh, you know, I don’t know if that’s the best way to handle a particular business problem … but it’s different if you’re in a weekly meeting and it’s something very small, and it’s a question of politics in your department or whatever it is. But if it starts to become something, like deciding to make nuclear missiles, you not going to just sit there and keep your mouth shut …] Yeah, but you know, what you, what you do is, you quit then. You have to prepare to quit. [student continues: right. I just think it's important to know that there is a line where you go, this is not the right thing to do and I’m not going to do it] There’s definitely not for me to practice [?], now quit. That’s what, that’s what you do. That’s for sure you. I mean, you don’t want cover it up [?]. I mean, I’m talking about, about, I’m not talking about a big thing like that. I’m talking about some mediocre thing.

0:42:04.2 [student continues: … people who really put themselves on the line to do what they think is the right thing are heroes in this culture … they’re the crème of the crop.] It is. It is crème of crop. They’re definitely crème of crop. (pause) [inaudible student talk] Not their loss. Right? [inaudible student talk] Okay. Because I saw both are jumping here. (chuckles) So, it is, eh, sort of important point. So, [TIBETAN], this is how we make equanimity of self and others. Okay? [student question: repeat the translation of the line that you didn’t like?] Oh, don’t change translation. I’m not good in English. Don’t change it. Okay? Just don’t change. Yeah of course, it is printed and published, so, so, we have to go along with it. You can say, you guess wrong. But um, but eh, but you say, you say you’re wrong, but you don’t have to correct it, printed thing. You make a note. It’s not that big deal. I mean, it’s making totally different sense than it’s, eh, something. But you can interpret it that way, that’s also possible you can interpret that way. So, it’s okay. [student question: but is it right?] It’s not right, for sure. But still, you can interpret it right way, too. Okay. Bliss is even better than the happiness, ordinary happiness. And then we choose to the others, bliss is more important than. You can go that way. It’s interpretable. [student comment: (?), if it’s not in there at all, it’s misleading. Students discuss] Then you have to have something, no, then you have put up some new words there, it has to be poetical, move on their tongues, and all of them has to be function, too, you know.

0:45:02.5 And that’s what I hear very often. They say that it’s very poetic, and it’s very easy to say, and very, eh, thing, and uh, sort of thing. Yeah, that make, and it’s not that bad, so it’s okay. I mean, that’s what, then you have to change everything. Every single thing you see written in English. Really. Everywhere. Lot of thing. [student continues: well, then do it. It’s important and it’s right] (chuckles) Do it. I’m not hero, I’m not doing it. (chuckles) And as my duty, and when I’m reading here with our friend here, and I should point it out, that’s all. Then that’s about, that’s about my job. That’s the line where I draw. You can do yourself, whatever you want to, you know. (chuckles) That’s, that’s a thing. But that’s where I draw my line, so. That’s, I mean, also it’s important to also know where you draw and think, to some people. I mean, yeah. Okay. Now, let me do little bit of work here, so. So. So. So, just now, in our own interest, when we sort of talk about me, and myself, and my interest, ah, we consider it very important, very precious, very valuable, um, it looks like most superior than others. But I don’t believe we are that much superior than others at all. That’s what it is. So, we are equal as (another?) human being. And our desires (side comments, long pause). Okay. So, the (tape stopped 0:47:39.0)

0:48:05.6 … I think that’s what it is. And out of, eh, out of Seven Stage of Development, the recognizing as mother being, remembering their kindness, promising to return to their kindness, and that is three plus, um, plus the special mind. Plus bodhimind. Okay? Did you get it? Recognizing mother, remembering kindness, promise to return, that’s three. On top of that, special mind. Okay? And then bodhimind. Okay? Becomes what, five. The same. Whether it is Seven Stage or Exchange Stage, there’s no difference for that. For those five. There is difference between love and compassion. Of this Exchange Stage love and compassion, and Seven Stage love/compassion has difference. The difference is, not a separate love and separate compassion, but eh, the force, how strong it is. [student question: does that go to the term when they use great love and great compassion?] No. No. Great love, great compassion, both, are great love, great compassion. But eh, but the difference. The Seven Stage and this one has a slightly difference. The difference is the force. How much stronger force you have. [student continues: how much more I feel it?] How much you feel it. How much strong you feel it. That’s it. That’s what it’s difference. [inaudible student comment] Let, let, yeah, let me just come up here, okay. Okay? So, what a different is coming, let me talk to you here. For the difference, how this one makes more powerful than the Seven Stage is, I think Tarab Rinpoche did mention the other day, too. So, what happened is, eh, in the Seven Stage you mostly recognize, then recognize all the sentient beings as mother beings,

0:51:02.9 … and how kind they have been when they’re remembering their kindness, during the being, during that period when they been most closest and nearest, and what they have done to me, and how might they save my life, this and that. You remember that kindnesses, right? But here what they do is not only, not only remembering kindness during the being a mother, but also during the period where they’re not been mother, they have been kind, too. Right? So, that means it’s always been very kind to me. It doesn’t depend, their kindness doesn’t depend to become a mother. The mother business has been just put it in to make our mind how mom has been kind, we normally acknowledge, so therefore, this was just put it in. In actual reality, the, they been always been very kind, otherwise there is no time. Not only they been kind to, kind to me as a mother and helping, but also when they’re not mother. When they’re my enemies, how kind they have been. That’s where your need the attitude of Madam Positive. So, the positive attitude. So, that’s the way it works. I don’t, I don’t believe it always works, but here it works. (chuckles) It’s very, I’m very grateful, I got the ticket, and very nice, but I did not, they didn’t charge me for not having registration, this positive way. That’s what Madam Positive does. So, I’m really happy with him, with the police. Not only he give me my ticket, but he didn’t charge me for not having the registration. I’m really grateful to him. That’s positive. So, the compassionate police not only give me ticket (chuckles), but also did not give me another ticket. So. That’s how it really works. So, that, eh, is become more powerful. I mean, it really shows you more clear how the mother has been introduced just to soothe the idea of a certain group of people at that time, you know. It was during that period, when they talk about mother …

0:54:03.4 … it was very, I mean, the idea which nobody will reject. At that time of the year. The time of the period, so introduced. In actual reality, the mother alone is not the important point. But the sentient beings been kind and compassionate. Even they’re not in mother. So, that’s why this considered more powerful and forceful. Right? The earlier path (part?) will only build you the connection as mother, and compassion, kind. But here, not even a mother, but kind. So, that’s much more American style. Right? So. Okay. Now, that is, that’s about it. That’s about equanimity of self and others. But before you change, exchange, then we have obstacles. What are the obstacles? The obstacle is self-cherishing. Right? Self-cherishing is obstacle. Self-cherishing. Not self-compassion, but self-cherishing. So, so, in order to clear that, we have to see the faults of self-cherishing, and you have to see the quality of cherishing others. So, the point, number two, will become seeing the faults of self-cherishing. So, how many time do we have? [side talk]. (pause)

0:56:58.6 So, now, to see the faults of, erm, self-cherishing, if you turn to the Lama Chopa, verse 85 (note: verse 56 in more recent JH prayer books).

RANG NI CHË PAR DZIN PEI CHONG NE DI

MI DHÖ DUK NGEL KYE PEI GYUR THONG NAY

LE LEN DEY LA KNÖN DU ZUNG JE TE

DAG DZIN DHÖN CHEN JOM PAR JIN GYI LOP

The English goes: This chronic disease of cherishing ourself is the cause giving, what? Rise to our unsought suffering. What is ‘unsought suffering?’ [student: you didn’t look for it] I see. [whispers in Tibetan] Perceiving this, we seek your blessing to blame, what is this? Begrudge and destroy the monstrous demon of selfishness. [student corrects his pronunciation] Monstrous demon of selfishness. Okay.

RANG NI CHË PAR DZIN PEI CHONG NE DI

MI DHÖ DUK NGEL KYE PEI GYUR THONG NAY

LE LEN DEY LA KNÖN DU ZUNG JE TE

DAG DZIN DHÖN CHEN JOM PAR JIN GYI LOP

So, if you were [TIBETAN], if you have to have some kind of enemy (mispronounces this), if you need enemy, so, that is your enemy here. So, that’s what it is. Right? Why this is enemy? RANG NI CHË PAR DZIN PEI CHONG NE DI. This is a chronic disease which you cannot get rid of it. It give you all sort of trouble. I have to see, this sort of doorway where I’m getting all the sufferings. [?] good translation here. Um, where the, this sort, the doorway, all this, uh, unsought sufferings are coming in. [side talk] [whispers in Tibetan]

1:00:00.2 That’s, that’s the real thing now here. It’s very simple when you go with Lama Chopa together. Makes simple. And when you say the Lama Chopa, then you also know what you’re doing it. Okay? And then, in addition to that, Bodhisattvacharyavatara goes [TIBETAN]. So, it is all the sufferings in this world and samsara, is all created because everybody wanted self, self-cherishing. So, self-cherishing makes the whole sufferings are created, for sure. There’s no question. If there is no self-cherishing, if there is no American interest, there’s no reason why we have to be in the south, where is it now? Saudi Arabia. I almost said South America. [side talk] We don’t have to be either. Right. Actually, what’s happen is, South is, the South African government has been asking the world police to come and help them to stay between the two black, nobody’s going. What’s happening? (chuckles) Nobody’s really going. [student comment: I’m just pondering this thing, that all the suffering in the world is created by self-cherishing. What about natural disaster, or famine, etc.] It is self-cherishing. [student: how so?] Due to the self-cherish interest of a group of people, we created that karma. And it a common karmic result. It, it has nothing to do just now. It has nothing to do just now what we did. But it is a common karmic result. All natural disasters are whoever experience that people’s common karmic result. And some have more, some have less. That depends on their creation of karma from the beginning. And because of that, conditions differ. Some people capable, be able to get out of it. Some people will be able to carry their things out of it. Some people could not get out of it because of the conditions. Even some very intelligent, or very well-informed who really are sort of most, eh, wittiest person in the town, somehow could not manage to get out of it because of certain reason, is that’s because of their karma. [student continues: so, their previous self-cherishing caused the negative karma] Definitely. It's a common karmic result.

1:03:02.1 There’s no question about it. Okay? [TIBETAN] That was the, the Shantideva’s Bodhisattvacharyavatara. I should have looked in Bodhisattvacharyavatara, see what that chapter and all this sort of thing. Can you find it? [student replies: is it in the first chapter?] No, no, no, no, no. It should be [side comments looking for it]. (pause, tape cuts off, restarts) There’re two of them. One says, [TIBETAN]. Another one is long one. [TIBETAN]. So, it says, this is the greatest ghost, what should I do with this? And uh, this is one who brought all the harms, sufferings, and uh, that is the, that is considered as, um. Okay. And also, and also, this is Seven Point Mind, the, the, the, the, Lojong (tsawa?), the root text of also says, um, root text [TIBETAN], all the, all the blames are one point. So that means, self-cherishing, here you’re, it’s not saying everything is because I did it wrong. Don’t misunderstand it. To turn our mind, to lose this, so you’re focusing all the blaming, putting all the blames on the self-cherishing thought. Drukpa [?], eh, the founder of Drukpa Kagyu tradition, he’s very interesting person. He’s very wild, completely wild guy. And um, he rove around, roams around carrying some bows and arrows and, uh, walks around. And um,

1:06:00.3 …when some people die, and they go and ask [Drukpa (?)] to pray, and please help that same person. And to some, she say, yeah, to some he say, no. And that type of thing. And um, they always have something to offer, you know. Offer. If you don’t have anything to offer, even then the person try to do something, doesn’t really work because of some kind of karmic connection. So, some old woman died on the street somewhere, and uh, she has the best on her body is, they found, very good turquoise, piece of turquoise. So, so, they picked it up the turquoise and walked few steps and [Drukpa (?)] comes round. So, they told [Drukpa (?)], say, please pray for some old woman died there, and uh, he said, ‘where is the turquoise?’ (chuckles) So, they give him the turquoise, and he says, he says [TIBETAN]. That’s what it is. [TIBETAN]. He said, the small turquoise goes in my, that uh, case where he carries the arrow. And he says, turquoise goes, huh? [students: quiver] Quiver. Okay. Turquoise goes into the, small turquoise goes in my quiver, the old lady goes into the liberation (snaps his fingers). (chuckles) [TIBETAN. Snaps his fingers] There was a Tibetan ruler at that time, a ruler that time, and son of the ruler was very sick. And whatever they do, they couldn’t help. They got different, great, ah, monks and monasteries and Rinpoches, everybody doing this, this thing and that thing and this thing and that thing, and all different rituals and exorcisms and all of them doing it. And normally, Tibetans considers very bad omens, when you throw torma out, and uh, if the, if they did something wrong, you know, doesn’t throw torma on street, bring back home, or even they throw torma out like this, if torma doesn’t go that way, someone turns round, and they consider it’s bad omens, and they do much more thing on that. And that’s what they do. And so, they ordered [Drukpa (?)], the ruler ordered [Drukpa (?)] to do a, a ritual of exorcism. So, [Drukpa (?)] did it because it is the king’s order, you have to obey, uh, otherwise, you know, they forcefully get you and tied you, and beat you up, and you have to do it, so they do.

1:09:06.2 That’s what old time. So, [Drukpa (?)] went there and did, and that day when he has to throw the torma out, his carrying torma and going everywhere, couldn’t go. Normally, people take the torma outside, and throw out. Right? So, he’s carrying it round and he said, ‘I can’t find anywhere to throw!’ (chuckles) He brought them back in the house and started going round, and finally went into the bedroom of this ruler, his son was very sick. He said, ‘Ah, here it is!’ He started throw torma on the ruler. (laughs) He throw the torma on the ruler, and he said, ‘There you go. This is place where I’m looking for.’ So, he throw torma there. And of course, he was asked questions and all sorts of things. But the son get better. He got better. And then they sort of respect him, and say, what is it? He said, ‘I throw the torma on self-cherishing. And your self-cherishing. Not the self, but father’s. That is the, that is the prince, you know, and who’s going to take the throne and this and that. He said, ‘I throw on that.’ That’s what he said. So, so, the basis of the blaming. So, that is the [Drukpa (?)]. It is [Drukpa (?)], it is the founder of the Drukpa Kagyu tradition. (pause) Did you find, (name)? [side comment] So. So, in short, what do we have to do? All our sufferings, everything has come from the self-cherishing. [TIBETAN] Okay. Anything, here it goes. Even the weapons, poisons, and uh, harmful effect of the spirits, like gods and uh, and uh, this nagas, and all other spirits is harming, and going, falling into the lower realms like hell realm, hungry ghost level, and taking rebirth into the animal realm. All of them are the result of self-cherishing.

1:12:01.1 How is it? Because we always wanted some kind of benefit. With hope of getting benefit to ourself, we kill other people. We have stinginess of not being generosity. Insulting other people. All this type of work, we do in order to gain some kind of gain for ourself. Because of seeking gain to ourself, we indulge all this, and uh, that karma brought us those sufferings. Is that quite clear? Quite clear. Even, it says, our illnesses, like lung, that is, whatever that is. Lot of people knows. Jaundice. And [Tibetan word] I believe it is tuberculos. Tuberculosis. [Tibetan word] And Tibetans don’t know it’s called tuberculosis, but they do have lot in Tibet, keep on coughing all the time. Cough, cough, cough, in the morning all the time. So, I believe, then the person becomes thin, thin, thin, thin. Yes, I believe it’s tuberculos. That’s, that’s normally called [Tibetan word]. You know what is very helpful, drinking a glass of hot water early morning is helpful for that. Very helpful. (chuckles) [Tibetan] Huh? [different Tibetan word] Is kind of jaundice, isn’t it? [student comment] Bile, okay. [side talk] (pause)

1:15:00.2 So, yeah. All this illnesses and uh, the, then ah, anything, like the, the fear, and uh, even our cases against us. And uh, and uh, getting caught in the law, court of law. Court of law here means easy, but in Tibet it is the, not court of law. It is the leader with Kagyu. The, unfortunately, in old Tibet the legislative, executive, and judiciary all three falls in one person. So, the power in the village chiefs are so big, and it is one person. It’s becomes small ruler by his self, again. So. Anyway. And that’s, uh, all of them. And all of them, he said, is caused by self-cherishing. Because self-cherishing could not satisfy what you should eat, and how much you should eat. And so, that’s why you get sick. This book says here, [TIBETAN]. I mean, I’m not saying, it’s here. Eat the wrong thing and eat too much. [TIBETAN]. So, says, your own benefit, whether it is food, clothe, or even your name, you can’t give up. You cannot, you cannot bear it. You cannot bear it, so you challenge. Ah, [TIBETAN]. So, something which somebody did to you, and you cannot, somehow you said, ‘I cannot take it, I have to, to, challenge it back.’ So, [TIBETAN]. It says, higher, the higher level where there is fighting between the kingdoms, that is the country. Now, in this, this is the period where, the old period, right, there’s kingdoms fight. That is the highest fight. Right? There’s no world war. (chuckles) The kingdoms fight, so. And uh, it says, lower, said, eh, one to one, one to one person fighting, and uh, even those monks, even (chuckles) they’re fighting each other among themselves like, eh, in the name of the monasteries, higher in name of monasteries, medium in the name of their colleges, and uh, lowest is one to one.

1:18:04.3 Ah, one versus you against me is fighting all because of self-cherishing. It goes on furthermore. And if you do not self-cherish, he said, try to prove it here why it is. If you do not self-cherish, if you say, ‘well, it’s okay for me, doesn’t matter,’ if you keep on saying, if it’s okay doesn’t matter, whatever you like, go ahead and do it. If you keep on saying that, he said, all these problems will not rise. If you say, well, doesn’t matter for me, you take it, whatever you want it. So, this problems will not rise at all. That’s true. [TIBETAN] This he says, in order, even this thieves are coming, the robbers are coming, in short, even those little mices comes up and make a hole in your food bag, making hole and, uh, inconvenience caused, even that, even that and [?] are because of self-cherishing. [TIBETAN] Some people who got a poisoned, food poisoned, and some people who cannot digest properly and got sick and died, is also, and also because of self-cherishing. Because you would like to taste so many different, eighteen different foods. (chuckles) Eighteen different foods, and so you get all this. He says, it's been killed by the poison, but killed by self-cherishing. [TIBETAN] Even this time, I didn’t do nothing, but I was totally blamed, and everybody bought it that I was a thief. Somebody, I didn’t steal anything, but I was totally blamed, everybody agreed, so I was blamed to be thief is, I have nothing done wrong, even then it is the, the self-cherishings. Because of self-cherishing we have, I have harmed other people in earlier in life, different life, so that result I’m getting now.

1:21:00.7 So therefore, it is the self-cherishing made me to blamed to be thief or anything. I mean, the thief is something very bad in Tibetan society. You know, it’s a small group of people, it is very little, right? In the mountainside, small group. When they’re known, somebody’s known to be thief, (chuckles) they’re known to be thief forever. And uh, so, that is bad one. Like in, if you, if you go and steal something in Chicago, uh, not, not so many people will know, and even you know, you be locked up, you come out and nobody will know. Right? And that’s small little village, and it is sort of said, he is the thief, and everybody know he’s a thief, and that’s till you die. As long as you live there, and even your children will say, oh he’s son of thief. So, really, really, that’s what goes through. And that’s how small villages function. So, he said, even those blames, he said, blamed, blame is totally you didn’t do, is the result of self-cherishing. [?] says, not only that, [TIBETAN], the butcher who kills the, the liberation and better future life is, this is the butcher, self-cherishing is the butcher who are killing the, my liberation, and uh, my future better life. Because of self-cherishing kills the cause of taking better rebirth, getting out of samsara, obtaining enlightenment, so it is the real butcher. And [TIBETAN] this is the thief who is carrying the bag of the, bag of the three poisons, that is anger, attachment and hatred. And stealing all my virtures, and this is the real thief who’s carrying big bag at the behind. Get the picture, a primitive society, the thief has to carry something, put in the bag and has to carry because there’s no way to transport. Right? So, they have to carry at the back, so they have to have big bag where they can put everything. Right? So, it has the big bag of three poisons, that is anger, attachment, hatred bags. And what they’re stealing is my virtues. So, that is the real thief who’s stealing my virtues and putting them in the bag of anger, attachment, and hatred.

1:24:02.4 [TIBETAN] He says, the farmer is bad farmer, bad farmer who try to grow the crop of samsara, who’s using the field of ignorance, and who’s, on the field of ignorance they’re putting the seed of bad karma and developing the crop of bad result. So, it is the bad farmer who’s building, who’s eh, who’s eh, growing the bad crop. [TIBETAN] Okay? So, if there is something to gain, this self-cherishing, if there is something to gain will not hesitate to do, even you have to use knife or spade, it’s called, right? [students: spear] Spear. [Tibetan word] Or arrow. So, these are the three biggest weapon they have, earlier. Right? So, there’s no missiles or anything. Not even gun. So, what they have is the knife, and um, spear, and arrow. [student comment] So, [TIBETAN] So, it is [?], out of three non-virtuous of mind, which is saying, if I get this, if I get this, you know, sort of, you know, there are of them, right? Three mind non-virtuous. What are they? [student replies: envy, ill-will, and … GR asks to clarify … Student: ill-will, bad feelings toward others. GR: the other one. Student: envy. GR: what does envy mean? Student: jealousy. GR: no. (Cross talk) GR: the other one. Student: bad feelings toward others, holding a grudge. GR: there go two, what is the other one? Student: wrong view] [TIBETAN] Okay. [student: envy, ill-will … GR: envy, what is envy. Student: desiring … GR: okay, that’s what I mean] Desiring, I wanted that, if you look somebody’s very nice thing and, huh? [student comment: envy is when you’re jealous of what they have. Translated as envy sometimes. Coveting is wanting something that somebody has …] Oh, that’s what you wanted.

1:27:01.6 And that is, that is the real [Tibetan word], okay. Out of three, three non-virtuous of mind is, if you see somebody’s good one, good things, you say, oh, I wish I could get at that, you know. That is the, that is the real one. Okay? So, he said, the person who’s having that mind, what that mind is now? [student: like a coveting mind, covetous mind] Covetous mind. Covetous mind who will try to take any advantage, even by using knife, spear, and arrow, whatever is possible. And that is this one. [TIBETAN] So, he says, he’s giving the name to them. The covetous man, covetous one who will take, who will no hesitation to take any advantage, material advantage, even by using all these three things. Okay. And, also saying, a bad man. Bad person. Shameless person who has no hesitation, if there is loses, they can without hesitation, they can give it on your own lama, [Tibetan word]. So, there, if there is a, if there is loses, without hesitation you can pass on that, even to your own parents, children, and teacher, and lama, and Khenpo, Khenpo is person from whom you took the vows. He’s not mean the abbot monasteries. Khenpo means. Yeah. The monasteries abbots are called Khenpo because they’re supposed to give vows to them, to the monks. That’s why [?]. Okay. When you read in the books and the text says Khenpo, doesn’t mean abbot or monastery, it means person whom you took the vows [inaudible]. Pratimoksha vows. Because that is Vinaya vow, so. Okay? Shameless. Okay. Now, where is it? [TIBETAN] (chuckles) This is not nice language. They said, you know, in the Tibetan society there are certain people who cannot achieve anything.

1:30:01.7 There’s some person is sort of labeled. Good for nothing. Who can do nothing. If the person try to do something, it goes wrong everywhere. So then, you know, after some time, in small society everybody will avoid that person to be involved on anything, because somehow they said, this person has bad karma, so, so, anything. Interesting, this might not be the right thing to do, [side comment]. that’s not the true case, anyway, just joke. And uh, so, here he still goes and says, [TIBETAN] He says, who had achieved nothing, not any single good quality from the beginning, so empty-handed one. That is blaming to the self-cherishing. [TIBETAN] So, this is creating doubt. Where there’s no need to be doubt, they created tremendous doubt and become empty-handed. And uh, hope, make you hope and hopeless cases, and uh, and lose other opportunities and become empty-handed. They’re all self-cherishings. [TIBETAN] He says, those who are higher than you, those who are equal to you, those are lower to you, they will have jealously, and competition, jealously, and insulting. So, you’re jealous to the higher people. You’re, you have competing, competition feeling to the equal. You are the insult the lower ones. And that’s the one who are the self-cherishing does. [TIBETAN] He says, the self-cherishing also does, if somebody praise you, you like it, enjoy it. If somebody insults you, you get angry. That is the self-cherishing. [TIBETAN] Or they invite, the person who invites all this undesirable things (chuckles) [TIBETAN]. The source of all non-virtuous. [TIBETAN] You know, all, all that’s, you know, the, the bird who sees at the night, owl. Somehow Tibetan culture considered owl as bad sign. Yeah, it's cultural thing.

1:33:01.1 I do not know why. Specially if owl laughs at the night. Says ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Okay. If owl, if the owl laughs at the night, that is considered bad sign. Huh? Huh? That’s bad sign, considered. That reminds me interesting thing. Ah, Tarab Rinpoche, when he’s in India, and you know, was studying with Kyabje Trijing Rinpoche, and Kyabje Trijing Rinpoche’s one of the greatest poet in living Tibetan. Really, great poet. Tremendous poet. So, Tarab Rinpoche, you know, Kyabje Rinpoche respect Tarab Rinpoche so much, and so, because of Tarab Rinpoche’s been [?], also Rinpoche himself’s great. Rinpoche keep on asking Kyabje Rinpoche to write a poem with Tarab Rinpoche’s name. Sometimes Kyabje Rinpoche writes very good, wonderful poems. And Tarab Rinpoche’s praising. One day he wrote very funny poem. And many of, many people thought that is the sign when Tarab Rinpoche’s not going to remain as monk. So, Kyabje Rinpoche wrote [TIBETAN], right, the name is [TIBETAN] So, Kyabje Rinpoche wrote [TIBETAN], so, he said, the [TIBETAN], the upper part of the rocks, they’re all laughing is the sign of bad. [TIBETAN]. [Tibetan word] means somebody who’s calling all the bad things, calling the bad things come, come (chuckles). [TIBETAN] That’s what he’s saying, inviter of all the sufferings and problems. [TIBETAN] Unless you try all the efforts, try to return it by bigger way, small way, whatever the way …

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