Archive Result

Soundfile 19901100GRJHNLLR01

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Netherlands

Topic Primary Stages of Lam Rim

Transcriber andy clarke

Date

… and generate pure thought, thought that for the benefit of all sentient beings I would like

to(00:08)

for the benefit of all sentient beings I would love to offer them ultimate Buddha stage,

within this short life time(00:24) and uh so by opening stage of the Buddha I help, I render

my self for helping all other (00:41) sentient beings. So, order to achieve that , I would like to listen,study,

practice and develope (00:55) these stages, that was made by the Buddha and Disciples , based(01:07)

on experience. And so do with that attitude do two kinds of listen to this ah part of the teaching ah teaching

(01:19)

what you are going to listen is the presentation of the understanding development of the Lam Rim Masters

in order to demonstrate effectiveness of the teaching tradition and the presentation of explainay exceptional(01:42) qualities of the Lam Rim teachings in order to generate appreciation the manner in which(01:48) the introduction transmission was presented and received, the way in which the practice progressively leads the practitioner to the enlightenment. (02:02)These are the basic outlines that we have presented to you without going into the teaching of what Lam Rim is and all this and that. And out of these basic outlines uhm the the presentation of the understanding development of the Lam Rim Masters in order to demonstrate effectiveness of the (indecipherable) tradition. We have covered, we didn’t talk much but very briefly about the life of the Buddha(02:41) and ahm and earlier Indian, did we talk any thing about Indian masters? I don’t think so. So, I think Nagarjuna, Asanga and all these , we consider that these very important (03:03). So, I think , briefly I touched it. Uh, so , very briefly I touched it. , but if you wanted to read more uh the books are valuable like the Indian Mahasiddhas. I think this is called Buddhas’(03:26) Lions or something, what is it called? (student: “84 Mahasiddhas”) 84 Mahasiddhas. Buddhas’ Lions, there’s a book available in english , the biographies of the 84 Mahasiddhas . 84. There’s 80 Mahasiddhas. Normally you find reference there’s 80 Mahasiddhas . So when they talk about 80 they add on 4 Tibetan masters that’s on top of 80 Indian Mahasiddhas(03:51) that’s why you have 84 Mahasiddhas. And among those Mahasiddhas you will(04:03) find Nagarjuna and ahhhh I presume you will find Asanga. I’m not very sure, I think you’ll find Asanga in that, Nagarjuna you will find. So there’s a Gandabarzand(?)(indecipherable) and all this all of them you’ll find(04:16) of all these great teachers you will find in there. So , (?) we look forward to that book(?). So I’m not going to go into great detail of the life of the great Indian teachers.(04:30) We also referred to Atisha , who is also more important because this teaching tradition was brought by Atisha , made valuable to the Tibetans , so we have referred to the Atishas’ life with three outlines and we also referred to the book in your hand, it’s called liberation in(inaudible speech by students) yeah this one , yeah “Liberation in Our Hands” ok.(05:07) other than in your hands(laughter)ok so we have referred to Atishas life story in that. I hope that you have been able to read about it. And I’m sure some of you have definitely read it. So you know what Atisha has. And it’s also there’s a reason why I presented these qualities , the outlines for Atishas’ life(05:41) um um (sentences in Tibetan ) so how Atisha took rebirth, and uh how the qualities they developed , after developing qualities how Atisha helped(06:04) and served , so that’s very important way of breaking(?) ones’ life , actually , if you look at , there’s a reason for that otherwise you can, you can make it , you can cut them any way you want to, so he didn’t, and it’s sort of , both is important and then uh all other activity(06:24) birth is important and we don’t go , this is important because his is the prince and this and that , this is not the reason. His taking rebirth is important , I mean, prince is being important at that time ,if he’s not a prince he may not have been that effective(06:41) because people pay a lot of attention to his prince, right? So that might be a little bit of there , but , its not there not the most important . Most important thing he had been there on the at that time , at that place, what is needed to be served. And then after that we didn’t say how many(07:04) retinue he has how high the throne is how much banners they have , how high they blow their trumpet . We don’t talk about that. And we talked about how Atisha developed qualities. And that is important . That’s what we needed. And that’s what everybody needed. Right? So the qualities (07:28). If you find it’s been translated as education or knowledge , it’s a mistake. It is quality. Quality. Because you know the word (tib.) in Tibetan, a lot of people (07:43)translate it I notice , as educated, or education, or learning , or something like that. That’s not, that’s mistake. It is quality , ok , because if you look back into the Sanskrit, it is (Sanskrit word, (goona?) (07:59) the word is (goona?) (goona?) being quality. The quality what the individual developes. It’s not the educational thing, you know. Ahm. Its not that educational thing . But it is more the quality. So what kind of qualities Atisha developed(08:20) . And after developing qualities within that individual , what did that individual do with that quality . How it helped others? Ok? So this important way of (?breaking?) so this is, it’s not that(08:39) it didn’t (?break?) didn’t go in detail, you know, how the qualities been developed , what kind of qualities Atisha getted, and after getting the qualities, how Atisha helped. Throught that qualities, to others. You know what I mean? So this is important. And so that’s why you can(09:03) train(?) their life story as a role model for us. To plant?us and through us to function(09:12) and that is the important . And it is demonstrate how the practice of the Lam Rim helped to develop qualities and after developing , what they do. (09:30) so get this way of ?breaking is very important. It doesn’t say, ah, all other sort, you cab ?break any way you want, right, and they did’nt do it. What inaudible (09:41) what upper part of what earlier is , and what middle is , what uh what uh at the end, or they can ?break any way they do. They didn’t. They do it where it break is the (09:52) the rebirth is important , and how develop quality and how it helped. that’s really important to look, pay attention to that. Ok? Then we talked a little bit about Tsongkapa. Did we tells it? Did we talk ?(10:13) So then there’s not so much time to actually if you if you read this ah Liberation in the Palm, it should also talk ah quite ah good up to to Pabongka(10:27) if think it will talk up to at least up to Pabongkas’ teaching , very briefly one of those important points and also it will talk how the tradition of the teaching from Atisha been divided into three different roots. The divisions are not Atisha divided . When Atisha taught and give the presentation(10:53) and the individuals when they pick up according to the capability and ability of the individuals so they went like in three different directions and if you read in the (indecipherable) one went into rather detail(11:08) very detail, (inaudible) more , sort of academically, scientifically , (inaudible) I mean scientific, don’t think about the mixing up the materials and (11:24) uh no that sort of you know not working with substances but uhm the sort of ah ( student says analytical) analytical . Thurman calls inner science but ah (11:40) the Tibetans would ah the traditions also give in that books in Tibetan traditional Buddhism talked science a lot . So the word science doesn’t mean the western science here, sort of here , Thurman makes inner science, he calls , didn’t he call inner science ?, yeah, he calls it inner science or something . So what ever it maybe its a sort of a logical (12:07) based ahm normally sometimes when we say it is scientically the right type, do you say that ?, Jack? (student: “I would say systematic” ) systematic (12:19) alright, that’s good. Systematically, I mean, its a very systematic and ah systematic because it’s one will push to the other, really its very nice that it worked out that way. So , Thurman translates and said inner science so , (12:44) so that’s how it works , anyway and uh what else now , ok , so , so thats the life of Tsongkapa, that’s right, I refered to life of Tsongkapa , to the book, (inaudible) Life and Works of Tsongkapa, ok most of the Tsongkapas’ life story this is very short one but you’ll find basic importance of the(13:19) Tsongkapas’ Life and Work. Life and the Tsongkapa’s Life and Work , try to read that as part of it. Because if I keep on talking , on the lives of each teacher, will probably by this time next year be talking the same thing. (13:39)So there be, so , I mean , when I begin to realize when we have only one day in a month, there only twelve months in a year, yeah, really, ah so so out of so its really mixed when you look at it it looks very long years you can have two years three years , but if you really boil down to it is like a couple of hours(14:04)so, ah really, you look ah once, once a month , that’s at twelve, and after twelve you ?cut it ?(14:16) before nine something is out and then nine-thirty before I won’t be here, I won’t be here, so another half and hour goes and then we have all this prayer (?praying) thing to do then we take a lunch break , then we talk, and then we have to close, right?, and so, ahh, (14:36)if you go with me from 9:30 to 5:30 or 9 to 5 or what ever it is , but if you really boil down to it there is two or tree hours , or maybe,maybe 5 or 6 hours, that we’re there . So 5 or 6 hours multiplied by, so far, multiplied by , say 6, (laught)(14:53) multiplied by 12 would be what? (student”72”) 72 hours, so ok , that’s, what are you going to cover in 72 hours? Uh , not much , for Lam Rim. In the traditional Tibetan system , start a like at twelve(15:05) at the time twelve(15:09) noon and it may go to ten, it may go to nine in the evening or may go to 11, 11:30. It depends. So that’s of course every day, it goes on every day , two months , three months. That’s what normally, that’s Lam Rim how it counts. (15:29). So , that’s how it is. So we skip all those. And when the books and information is valuable, just refer to that back, on that. (15:52) and also if you want a little more detail talk you also have the tapes available. Is it available? (female student”we have from the first Lam Rim teaching, we have like nineteen tapes and I haven’t gone through them, but I don’t know how much of the preliminaries there are.”) No , I (16:11)skipped even that time. (fem. stud.” That’s what I thought”) I remember I skipped all the preliminaries at that time. So because uh , I skipped preliminaries, and I don’t know why I did but (fem.stud.inaudible)ok so we’ll start it from uh(16:27) in the suffering.(fem.stud.”?the death meditation,too??? Inaudible) I don’t know how I did it but I remember I skipped the preliminaries ok. Anyway , preliminaries are important(16:40). And why is it important ? Because if the preliminary preparations are not good, the actual practice will not be good. So that’s why we try to stick to the Ganden Lha Gyema (16:54) actually the Lam Rim preliminary is not the Ganden Lha Gyema its called, there’s a separate thing that’s called Six Preliminary Practice which is something like forty pages uh forty pages or something. Uhm, I heard a ?geshes soba? (17:11) in Wisconsin has some kind of shorter version of that . I haven’t seen it. If it’s there, maybe I think of switching it later, if I find it reasonable. Uh think that’s being able to switch it. But , uh, the essence of the preliminary is the the (17:35) ?Seven? Lamp and which is in the Ganden Lha Gyema , so I thought you can have both combination of it. So, (clears throat) so we use the Ganden Lha Gyema plus the foundation. So that will serve two purposes. Everybody can do every day practice, plus(17:55) this will serve the purpose , that’s why we are doing this thingok . Now, I believe we have to say we have covered presentation of the understanding , development of the Lam Rim Masters, in order to demonstrate the effectiveness of this teaching tradition. I do not know how it demonstrated effectiveness, but we have to assume that we covered it. (18:22) (laughs) If you don’t read it , that’s that. You can’t be , can’t help it. Just read it , ok? And if you have questions and doubts then you can talk later. And uh even in that later that Liberation in Our Palm , we are talking Atishas’ thing (18:59) rather (inaudible)…..the Vajrayana way(searches for a word, students suggest ‘esoteric’) esoteric. Thank you. I also talk quite a lot about Atishas’ life in esoteric way. Would you like to open that a little bit , I think its very hot, isn’t it? Is it hot or cold, or is it only me?(stud.agree.its.warm) ok , thank you. I’m glad you had your overcoat with you so you could put it on.(19:32)(stud.”yeah”). So we covered that . Now the outline to , uh , ?that has no meditation? Ok? You can rejoice. You can read the activities of the great teachers and rejoice.(19:46)an uh I you want to you can say uh ( words in Tibetan) shows ah so you can refoice and you can say the Great Master , what ever your way of doing, ( words in Tibetan) I forgot just now, so what ever the way, however the way you have done and uh developed your own developement(20:34) and helped others , I and all other sentient beings, may be able to be like you. Something like that, if you pray , rejoice and pray, and that, that(inaudible). Ok? That’s that purpose. And uh so you can do that. And that’s all, there’s no other meditation on that. (20:56) Now the second is the presentation of the exceptional quality of the Lam Rim teaching, in order to generate appreciation. Ok , now , there are exceptional qualities in Lam Rim teaching. But first you to, in order to get individuals interested, and just now what we are doing so far is , we know spiritual path is something important(21:27) we know. And we also know something in the Tibetan tradition carries something very unique and important in that. And some how we are forcing ourselves , we have to do that because there is something to gain. We don’t know exactly what is in there, what you can really gain . So (21:57) it does (-unsure-?increase a certain amount of thoughts you have to approach?) and uh some people will go through , some people at the middle and get tired(22:04) and dropped out, and some people get burned out, some people get, um , (inaudible) so all these things I was happened . And um some people will think , well, this maybe better than that. (22:22) and this maybe better than that. And that might be better than this. You know? Because when you try to deal with your self , and I don’t have to go back on this point, the point is , that we said the (inaudible) of practice is what? To fight our own delusions and difficulties(22:42) and change our habitual patterns so that we function without , effortlessly function right away, I don’t know if ‘right away’ is the words should be used or not, but to function correctly so that ever action will create a good karma so that we have, we have a good karmic result always we can in our, ah, in our storage(23:09) or in our (inaudible) always valuable to good karmic result and we don’t have bad karmic result. That is how we are changing. So that has to function automatically, rather than you have to tell yourself ‘I have to do this’ and somebody has to tell that ‘hey you have to do that’ . Ok if it were in the old times and we can get little sticks(23:32) and get the behind. And um that’s what it is and uh and this reminds me very funny , and if any body would like to relax and stretch your legs, please go ahead, just , you know stretch, there’s no problem at all. So , we have that all the time we do. So , just don’t lie down, ok? that’s important. Some go to the extent of lying down. So , don’t lie down, but uh, (24:02) just stretch your legs a little, just stretch your legs that’s out, then sleep. (laughter) ok. So, what else, what were we talking, yeah! So , the habitual patterns, ok, the patterns ,it should be automatically functioning and um and if you are if you do yourself, if you bring yourself a certain way all the time(24:36) so then , the automatic effortlessly functioning within you is there, its sort of becomes , some people would say, your, its by natural that (inaudible) this and that. It’s not by natural. Nothing is natural. Naturally you don’t even exist. So at zero level right?(24:57) so, but, we have built up that habit. So , when we built up that habit you don’t have to be pushed by somebody. Until you build up that habit, you’re being pushed by somebody. Being pushed by people , too. And traditionally, uh they push you. By anything, you know? And I was talking yesterday with a few friends and a sort of remembered me, you know, (inaudible)(25:26) ahm, what we see in then tradition really did they bring very big long stick and hit you from the back though you may hurt or not hurt, right? And that is a nice way of doing it. Ah, in the tradition of the Tibetan system, they beat you like anything. I’ve been through. They really beat you , you know , I’ve been through, lot.(25:50) If you don’t behave , don’t do the wrong thing , they tell you and tell you and tell you and if you don’t listen they really beat you. Not only this, not only a little sting in back , they really beat you hard. (laughs) beat you, so , that’s what they do. And when they beat you you also learn that. (laughs) It needs to , it needs to be changed. (26:22) you know? I was talking with some friends yesterday so, things not bad its a (inaudible) even I notice myself and I ask when I’m a kid, little kid , you know? About (26:39) ah eight , nine, ten, eleven, I think up to fourteen, fifteen, I really had a lot of beatings. And I do remember one, it’s about well when I was eleven , I think. I had to go to some ceremonial function, your suppose to ride a horse. I couldn’t! I had to stand up on the horse, most of the time, because(27:07)(? Iwas completely cut up?inaudible) on the lower part of the body(inaudible) I would stand up on the horse back(27:27) and also , I’d learned the habit, I’d learned the habit, and uh and when I’m sixteen, seventeen, I have students maybe, and I’m very easy to hit with (inaudible) (laughter) without any hesitation, yeah, and yeah and next I maybe I (inaudible) (27:46) made it to sixteen,seventeen, I’m told three times , four times at the most and then I’m hit. I’m not angry or anything,(inaudible) I’m hit(27:55) I’m merely hitting at 30 or forty years old, (laughs) hitting it , I did that. You know, and later on when I came to India, and i’m seeing and I met these you know in peoples homes , they’re now senior geshes(28:11)and things like that, (?they’re all?) and when I see them I feel very embarrassed (inaudible)and ah also I notice I pick up that habit , I pick up , I notice that , (inaudible) I tell you what. In 1970, uh no , it might not be ‘70. I think it is either it is ‘69 or ‘70 , round about that time, I have a dog.(28:42) Little dog. So I notice my self , I’m beating those dogs, with mala. And uh one day I did notice that I’m beating my dog with mala. And I said to dog ‘I told you’ and then I (29:03) hearing what I’m saying ‘I told ‘ you , I’m talking , I’m talking to dog, right? ‘I told you, why didn’t you listen to me? Why didn’t you understand?’ I was so stupid. Yeah . It is dog, right? (29:15) (laughs) So of course. My telling doesn’t mean anything. And the I realize I was picking up that old style of habit. What I had , what I had been through. In childhood. So I said ok, I have to change. So since then I don’t use my mala, because that dog, some kind of little brownish dog, nice one, and so I beat him up. (29:50) you know? I said ‘I told you’ (inaudible) I told you. So that’s what I’m called(?) me , ‘I told you”(29:56) I said I told the dog, said you can’t do that , and of course , dog is dog. So, that’s how you get. So the habitual patterns are how we develop is very important. So we have to develop our habitual patterns. So that our partnership or our companionship of the spiritual friends also becomes very important (30:24) to pick out the habit of individuals. So because you intend to pick up, right? If you are smoker , if you are not a smoker and if you have a friend who’s smoking all the time , chimney type of thing, there’s more chance of your picking it up, and you becoming it. Rather than lesser chance of you getting rid of it. (30:51) and ah similarly if you are the spiritual friend or spiritual guide or teacher, who also behave badly like I do , so you are also a tendency to pick up a bad habit. And uh so , so that’s that. So that’s why it is important to also have a good spiritual friend rather than a bad ones. (31:22) that’s one reason. And also , similarly , uh you uh most important , most important, is yourself. Ourselves. If we know how to behave ourselves, and if you don’t know, we learn how to behave ourselves. And uh then we remind ourselves how to behave. And if we constantly remind ourselves, whatever , if you have to writ a note to yourself(31:51) do it. If you have to put some kind of sign that remind you ourselves, hang it on the wall or hang it on your forehead. Whatever you have to do , do it. And get a constant reminder to ourselves so that we pick out the habit of good way of thinking and functioning. It doesn’t matter how you dressed up, or doesn’t matter how you sit, or doesn’t matter how you sleep, does matter a little bit, but, not that much. But the most important thing is how you think and how you act. Because thinking , its body , mind, speech, are the three ways of creating karma. So thinking mind is the most important, the mind makes the body my body and speech function(32:48). So the key is on the mental stage. So if you keep on correcting your mental attitude, all the time, so the result of that mental attitude is the body and the speech function , which will automatically correct it without putting effort. Because of , it is the mind which does (?behind?) . So the Lam Rim is one of the best to touch the key(33:19) that is the mind to put in the correct manner. And that is the most important quality of the , this is right here, quality of the Lam Rim teaching. And so if you realize , you will definitely appreciate it. If you don’t realize that, that’s it , you have to force your interest, you have to drag you in and after some time how long can you try? Yourself. So, nothing. So you’re bound to be losing. (34:06) And that’s what ninety percent of spiritual practitioners , who have an interest, who did not develop appreciation, and they sort of after some time they dropped out. Because , how long can you make yourself do things, which you don’t understand, or you’re doing , (34:21) or you don’t appreciate what you are doing. And you just simply believe that’s what somebody else told you that’s great and so you ‘oh that’s great , I am going in that direction’ but you didn’t have anything by yourself(inaudible) into you. You don’t have the drive and the energy that what you needed, from your own way, you don’t have it.(34:41) Why you don’t have it? Because you don’t appreciate it. When, when you don’t appreciate, why you don’t appreciate it ,you don’t know what you’re looking at it. You don’t know what you’re getting at it. Ok? So , even you read the books , and the books are done in such a way, it’s sort of very dry, and it’s sort of , uh , it’s not juicy. (35:02) so, (laughs) it’s not juicy. So it makes you even uh sort of more difficulty so uh that’s what it is. So, the essence of it , what Lam Rim does, it’s really help you to change your mental attitude , to change your way of dealing with things. So, once you , this is the key, (inaudible) uh, but a number of people who (35:52)(12 seconds of silence) number of people who does things with the different things and all the (inaudible) of Lam Rim, and they appreciate much more. Ah, even within our friends , (inaudible) (sounds like YAP) right, if you talk to Rachael, she will tell you, (silence) we mentioned in the other (?guru vajra?) (36:19) I told you is there. But ,uh, when Rachael first came, how did she came, remember, I think it was in your house. Colleens’ or Kathys’. Do you remember when Rachael first came? (students:’iknowshewasinmyhouse…….’) Yeah , that was the beginning of the time when Rachael came in. And she came in in such a way, it’s impossible, and now , you look at her, (36:58)and she’s big , becoming sort of quieter, solid, and boy, she’s very young. But still , and that. And she does other retreats, too. And she knows she does other things, she appreciated how the Lam Rim affects her. She has more and more appreciation. So she flies alone from France, to get to our retreats.(37:22) So that’s what she does. So, how effective it’s become. And its affect on individuals, and each one of us, if you started looking back, and you’ll see, you’ll begin to see that, not in two months, not in three months, but like you go long time, in years you look back you’ll see it. And uh Lam Rim has that much affect. Without realizing , Lam Rim is not going to make you fly in the air, (37:54)Lam Rim not going to make you uh to develop how to remain under the ground. Not going to teach you how to remain under the ground. No Lam Rim going to teach you how to walk on the fire. no. but that will make you how solid one can become if one really opens and developes. How solidly built up foundation withing individuals. And that is the qualities of the Lam Rim we can relate to. ok. Now let’s go back what this one says. (38:32) So on this tradition. So, what is it. Um, who has the outlines. Somebody has it, or how many there now? I don’t know, about a hundred? Anyway. Presentation of the Exceptional Qualities of the Lam Rim teaching in order to generate appreciation.(38:57)that’s where we were with the (?doctor?) and we stopped there working. Ok? Now there’s A, first we have A . A. What is it. Experiential Understanding of the Instruction , Instruction will knit the Meaning of all Spiritual Teachings(39:20) Into Single Fabric. I don’t even have the Tibetan version. What happened to it? (inaudible students) You have different words, yeah , I know. What do you have?(‘only steve and Rinpoche have copies of it{more inaudible students]) OK , what do you have?(39:53) what do you have? (‘you understand that there are no contradictions in all Buddhist teachings’) That’s right. (mumbles) you understand that there are no contradictions in all Buddhist teachings. And that is the, the carbon copy, says, right? (students inaudible) 2A. So we had said the experiential understanding of these instruction will knit the meaning of all spiritual teachings into single fabric.(40:36) Ok. You want to give me the explanation on that order? Talk a little bit on that? (shuffling of papers) (student:’when one first comes into the Lam Rim practice, Buddhist practices, you look at all these different teachings and different presentations,it can appear to an individual that while these say all these different things , you look at the sutras and it says one thing, so you look at the tantras and it says something else, and there’s this sense that these bits don’t go together, like how can in this thing you should abstain from eating meat, you should abstain from other kinds of conduct, other practices say, oh, you should eat meat , you should do this and do that, and that there’s, um, for the individual (41:26)lookin at it from the outside there’s a sense that, um , how could these things possibly go together, you know , and they just seem so different , and it seems these teachings are contradicting each other , but that when you begin really working with the Lam Rim, um as far as the stages of the path , you understand that the teachings are presented at different times in different fashions to suit the needs of the individuals that are operating at that particular part in their own development and that the words may(42:00) be different , but the nature and the meaning is really the same. So the meaning is there that it connects from whatever angle the individual is practicing it connects them with deeper development inside , awareness, wisdom, compassion, all those things , that’s the meaning. The method and the approach and the things that are presented may may seem contradictory in the sense that the words and the particular directives may be different at different times, so the Lam Rim brings them all together, so you see the interconnectedness, of the , uh , of the teaching. So they don’t appear to be contradictory.’)(42:42) Ok , now. I would like to say one thing here. Normally we talk about this here not only we , we are not supposed to only say about the qualities, the special qualities of the Lam Rim , but also mention the special qualities of the Dharma itself. Or which we say the teachings. um. So we did mention about Dharma a lot. About the quality of the Dharma and what the Dharma really is (43:21) and everywhere. So more or less I’m sure all of you have quite a good understanding of Dharma , including those who are listening to the tapes. I presume. Um, if you have a difficulty of understanding Dharma would you like to raise a question? Presumably no. uh, so you know what Dharma really is and what does Dharma do. We talk to you earlier. (44:00)I just mentioned this a while ago, correcting individual way and functioning and creating better karma all the time. Correcting, actually, it is correction. Correction of the wrong behaviors we have. Do to delusions. Somehow we’d be able to correct it . That is really what it is. That’s what it really is. The word Dharma in Tibetan is (44:30) is ‘chur’. ‘Chur ‘ is the past tense of ‘chur’ which means correction. Which means you correct your wrong behaviors of the wrong thing what you do. So out of a lot of , lot of Dharmas are Dharmas within, a lot of specific divisions are there, out of all which call Lam Rim(44:54) what we do the Lam Rim. This is somehow during the Buddhas’ teaching period, nobody calls it Lam Rim at all. Lam Rim. Nobody. The words Lam Rim came when Atisha came to Tibet. When Atisha first came to Tibet, Tibet had suffered tremendously, in order to develop the pure teaching of the Buddha. Pure teaching of the Buddha. The pure teaching of the Buddha first came into Tibet ,then it was influence by a lot of mystical , magical(45:29) uh, all this, and the Tibetans are very fond of , you know, uh, the daggers flying in the air, and uh, the persons flying in the air, and all this , they are very fond of it, they took very much to that. And the essence of the actual practice is at beginning shaky and weak. And tha’s why those kind , the people , the rulers of that period , are very much concerned and they want to improve uh the quality of the Buddidharma itself, as an individual practice.(46:08) Individual upliftment, rather than showing exercise in power , or knowledge, or healing, or , or anything. Atisha. I’m not into state something magically , mystical at all. I interested in something that affects the individual mind and there on being able to lead to the state what the Buddha had (inaudible). And whatever your excellent practice might be, so kindly give us a short and easy one. We are sort of backward , stupid people, that’s what we always say. They were the stupid Tibetans.(46:54) We don’t know much a deities, we don’t know much intellectual and we need something very essence and shorty to practice. So, Atisha replied to that and wrote a little text , I mean its a very short one, called Lam Rim. Which is The Light of the Path. (talks to students’something’/’part of Enlightenment’inaudible)(47:28) ok Lam Rim. So , not only a Lam Rim he wrote and he said, he said, ‘due to the request of good disciple ‘, and he was referring to the ruler of Tibet, and that’s very often in the teaching under emphasized, why Atisha called good, not because that person had interest to be ruler, but his request was on the point. Not interested in magical , mystical, but pure, clean and real essence (48:01) solid practice. And that’s why they say Atisha referred to as good disciple to the ruler. And so the Lam Rim ,since the Lam Rim , the word of the Lam Rim, which is the path came in (?thought?), so, the Lam Rim of the path, the stages of the path and all this (48:28) sort of so if you read in the Buddhas’ , Buddhas’ cannon, it is scattered everywhere. Even you read Maitreyas’ transendental teachings it is scattered everywhere.(48:41) It is not like Lam Rim (inaudible) the guru devotion comes first and this stage in which you do is not in organized any where else except in this . It is a everywhere but you have to pick up from there this point and from there that point you have to combine them together. So that Atisha combined together, made sort of (49:03) ready made TV dinner, valuable for us to eat. So that’s why , that’s why Atisha teachings are the real ah sort of basis on which whole Lam Rim has been working. Uh, not only the Lam Rim (clears throat) the Gelug tradition, but even the Kagyu, Sakya, and all they call the (Tib.) means a little less than Lam Rim(49:31) but , um, (inaudible) have something else they call it. Lam De. (inaudible) call it Lam De, the Nyingmas call it (inaudible) and (?Kajubas?) call it what? (student) some call it(inaudible) but the (49:48) (inaudible) and the (inaudible) call it (inaudible) ,(inaudible) call it , and all different sort of names , (inaudible) have some different names for that so any way , sort of essence of what Atishas work. So uh so Atishas’ work of the Lam Rim(50:08) is the out of all these dharma things the true(inaudible) fundamental basis , the stages , how it works on that. So, why it is important? Why you do this ? So this is not only a shorter practice but also it has essence of the both sutra path , you know what is the sutra path, suttara, (50:38) eh, you need a little explanation on the suttara path. (?doctor?) (student: something about a discourse pertaining to the practice)(50:53) Suttara and Tantara. (student: ‘oh , the distinction between the two, the sutras represent more of the public , the public discourses, easy practice. Tantra is a fruition practice and uh I don’t know what you…..’) Oh, good. Sutra is the public and Tantra is what?(51:23) um, what do what (inaudible) (inaudible) called what (student ‘exclusive’) exclusive all right(laughs) tantra, I don’t, is it good? Good explanation? (student: “no”) No? (laughter)(51:43) ok. Anybody else want to try? Supa. (‘the only thing is um sutra practice is more cause oriented and tantra practice is more result oriented.) Hey. How does that sound? Better? (laughter) see, Supa says sutra is causal oriented, and tantra is result oriented. That’s that. (52:18) Sutra is known as (tib.) which is a causaliyana and tantra is known as resultiyana. Would you like to clarify a little more? (student: ‘ I guess my lim)ited understanding’) yeah, very limited(laughs) (‘that um I mean itsintripockets youre taking these uh youre considering your self as being ordinary smuck right now and uh youre taking steps to sort of uh gradually you know um get to this um higher place and then you have to do all these various um practices everythings garbled whereas in the Vajrayana practice you sort of uh try to see yourself as um I don’t know that’s maybe totally wrong”) No. Good. (“try to see yourself as enlightened um right now and and um uh not by thinking youre better than anyone”) Yeah the functioning of the the result time of your functioning is also you try to practice even now(53:30) Almost with imaginative activities so, so that is why it’s called result practice. Did I say something wrong ? (inaudible) ok. Ok, anyway. So that is so even the sutras , whether Mahayana, Hinayana (inaudible) all of them are part of sutra. Their principles are the sutra principles.(54:03) So, the Lam Rim covers the essence of both the tantra and sutra and that’s why they’ve been chosen both to work as a basic foundation. That’s one reason. Two reason: the way the Lam Rim was presented is uh actually is focused to deal with the mind , to training the mind in proper direction, to training the mind. Rather than to make it a (54:43) little more detailed or philosophical or metaphysical way, but is a sort of went through a training mind as a measured principle. So its sort of ,its geared towards to train the mind as a important point. That is the second reason and also it makes very easy to individual to practice. So it is geared towards to training mind, and it makes very easy to individual practice(55:18) which is two reasons, um and um and the third reason theres more qualities, more techniques given for anyway third reason’s not that important , but these two reasons are important. It is a short yet it has a concise explanation essence of both sutra and tantra, one. Two, it is geared toward training mind and easy to practice(55:49) And that’s why this is the uh important and why the (inaudible) of this is made. Ok? Now, I forgot. What time do we normally stop here? Is it twelve we stop or twelve thirty we stop? (students: I don’t think there’s ever been a pattern) no I mean for this (laughter) you’re right , there’s never been a pattern. (‘that means we don’t stop’)(56:23) (laughter and chatter) uh maybe we’ll go after lunchtime. That’s another half hour, maybe we stop then. Unless people really have to move for toilet or something if you have to go just maybe, maybe you get up quietly(words in Tib.) So the teachings are not contradictory that was the point we were talking. Ok, now , what is the teaching?(56:52) What is the teaching? That is important. So the teaching here, teaching here is titled ,teaching means, what is it (inaudible). (student: someone, I think its just when someone shows their experience…?...you understand what their experience was…?…) Yeah. In the sturas in the Buddhas’ words recorded here(57:28) it says (Tib.) …..that’s it. Teaching here means, those who are seeking the ultimate enlightenment of the Buddha stage , to introduce them to what to be know and what to be give up and what to understand and what to meditate and what to practice. Did you get it? You need to meditate,or order to meditate you need to know what you’re meditate. Right? Otherwise you can meditate on your girl friends face too. And that is meditation. I made meditation sounds very cheap, but it is. Why not? You can do that. So what you meditate? Meditation is (58:34) a technique. I mean, in English in the West you don’t do that, right? I mean, you make meditation very secret, and some just because they call it meditation is packaged and its make it like look like very secret up there over there you leave it you don’t mix(?) with that something you make division and you leave it up there(58:51) But in reality, when you think what is meditation is nothing but getting mind used to it. By concentrating bringing it up on the point a certain points and you are making that point getting used to it. And almost you become the point within you. Ok? Concentration meditation is you keep on concentrating and you concentrate so much so that any other thing cannot disturb your concentration this and that. Which means your mind is a total observing(59:30) How you get observing by getting used to it. Is there any other way? If there’s any other way, tell me.! There is no any other way. You getting used to it , I mean it , really. You make it very secret. So other way that’s a good way, I’m not criticizing that(59:50) don’t misunderstand. We are talk it looks like criticizing. But i’m not criticizing. Ok? That’s the way to do it. So you can also do you can do meditation on you girlfriend or boyfriends’ face. Why not? You can do that. And that’s not becoming good meditation. So in order to become a good meditator you need to know on what points you have to meditate.(01:00:17) Did you get it? Ok . Sitting, concentrating , sitting and concentrating is the technique how you do the meditation. So what you really meditate is when once you have the technique, once you put it on the point , focal point , and that is important. To be able to linger on that object what you meditate, and the technique what you have of concentrating, combined together , makes the individual better. Or worse. Both ways. Really. It is. If you sit (inaudible) without thinking nothing(01:01:04) that’s keep on sitting ,on that maybe I want to bring you down a little bit , because American life is so busy and like you know ,uh, so much ,(inaudible) we saw last night. that’s really like what we have. Right? b.b.b.b.ch/ch/ch/ch/dz/dz/dz/dz. (01:01:20) That’s what you really have. So it make you to cool down and slow down a little bit. The caffeine affect will be thrown it away a little bit. And it will be settle down a little bit. Beyond that, what can they do? Not much. If you sit too long that way you become even dull.(01:01:47) There’s are danger of that , too. Too extreme way. If you sit there too long. So what you have to meditate is you have to balance , you have to bring down to the level ,slow down and concentrate and stabilize and then you, and then the question arises, on what do I do stabilization? And in the Tibetan tradition , I’ll (01:02:10) tell you what. The bringing down, slow down is not too much emphasized. Because, by virtue of the birthright , we’re brought, we’re born(laughs) , I’m sorry. we’re born in the society which is already in stable level. So, don’t need it. So,not so much emphasized.(01:02:33) So, you find it more emphasized and that’s there , it’s not that it doesn’t have it. It’s there , but not so much emphasized. But on the other hand , you’ll find, in then tradition, and all this, this emphasizing will come there. They make you sit and sit and sit. And sitting is to bring you down. Not going to fly in the air. So maybe you sit for months together.(01:03:05) If you can sit without talking , without doing anything, maybe able to sit for months. That’s great. That way you bring down. Many of us who fly in the air I strongly recommend do that. Go and sit a month. Go to inside meditation. And sit there like Joseph Goldstein, or Sharon. And try to sit there for a month. It will help you to bring you down. Really. And once you be able to concentrate, uh bring you down, then what you focus. And then the Lam Rim will come into picture. To tell the truth, that’s how it works. For the Tibetans, uh , we don’t have that a zig zag thing up there. (01:03:49) so by, sort of by (laughs) birthright, it sort of brought in that way, ok? So. So, now , the my main point is to know what you, what you focus on that. It’s very important. Otherwise, you can be concentrating on anything. Right? You can (01:04:16) meditate how computer works. Uh, you can. Why not? And it help you to work with a computer, sure. The Japanese almost meditate how to work with their hands and uh things. They almost meditate on that. And that’s why their effective. They make more money. (laughs) Just joking. (laughter) (01:04:46) So, our interest is to be able to develop a stage of the Buddha. Ok? So anything, uh, so in order to develop the Buddha we have to , the stage of the Buddha, we have to give up certain way of functioning , and you have to develop certain qualities. Right? So we need to know what qualities we should develop and we need to know what habits we have to throw it out. Otherwise , we’ll be guessing. it’ll be guessing game.(01:05:22) So, so, so without a ?mistake?, correctly showing you that path , that what to give up and what to pick up. That’s what the teaching is. And that also is not that Buddha is something(01:05:44) fantastic and suddenly dropped from the sky to show the way. No. Buddha builds up on his own experience. And shares the experience of his own developments and also the lineage teachers, they share their personal experience. Ok? From this point onwards we have more experience of dealing with the western mind and then the above point, so anyway it’s going to?remove? richer than before. Anyway. How? I do not know. (01:06:23) Deviate(?) the path , who knows. So, that’s why, that’s why, that’s why teachings of the Buddha are sometimes referred as (Tib.) which, eh, which Thurman translated as what? (students)(01:06:50) elegant , what, speech. Speech of elegance. Ok . That’s Thurmans’ translation. Ok? So here , then also the Buddhas teaching is very important. Every single point of the Buddhas’ teaching(01:07:08), every single word has a meaning, has a purpose , a purpose relevant to me. Me, the individual. I’m not talking about the me, the Geleg Rinpoche here. But I’m talking about me the individual, I, always have a purpose and a point. But , Buddha is such a great thing, Buddha say what we call skillful way(01:07:38) Buddha try not to disappoint people all the time, always. So any body says something, does something, somehow Buddha will try to make it right. Make it right and present. So when its suitable people, the Buddha will say “yeah, the world is flat” and when its unsuitable people there, when there’s suitable people there the Buddha says “the world is round” if you read Kalachakratantra Sutra(01:08:11) it is told that the world is round, in that. But if you read any other sutra part the world is flat. So somebody did ask the Buddha, you you said the other places there you said the world is round, here you’re talking about flat, what are you talking, are you crazy?(01:08:26) He said “no. (01:08:22) If I say world is round here this people they all think I’m crazy. So that’s why I have to go according to that.” So the point is the Buddha doesn’t go beyond whats the, Buddha doesn’t go overhead. Buddha can easily go overhead but doesn’t. Why? What are you doing?(01:08:49) (students) ok. (laughs) So, Buddha(laughs) so this thing if you don’t kick that thing it won’t make noise(laughs). So, Buddha does not go overhead people. So sort of talk to the level of the people so it serve the purpose. Ok? So, but, he never (inaudible) anything wrong(01:09:21) So all I had mentioned earlier , yeah you can eat meat, or yeah you can not eat meat, ok? That’s two identically contradicting words Buddha have used it. Both. Yes you can eat meat and yes you can not eat meat. Both. So you say well what is that? It is true to some people you can eat meat and it’s true to some people you can not eat meat. Ok the teachers have given example of when(01:10:00) of when you get some illness and the doctors are treating you in some points , and we’re talking about, we’re not talking about allopathic doctors, ok , we’re talking about, neither are we talking about homeopathic doctors. There again, mind, is such a thing, if you say its not allopathic they immediately think homeopathic. No. (01:10:18) I have Aruvedic doctors(laughter) I’m just joking. Anyway, so, ah, in the Aruvedic Tradition in the holy treatment and its come from India, and its also from Buddha, tradition. They tell you in certain illness you can not eat meat. And certain times you have to eat meat.(01:10:43) You have to , no question. You have to eat meat. For physical reasons, health reasons, even that. So that was given as example to certain people it is a practice they do have that to certain mostly to (inaudible). So that, looks like , this is very gross example given, ok.(01:11:05) Looks like a contradiction, but is not a contradiction. Ok? Not a contradiction. And similarly its good for listen to the music , and some (inaudible) not good for listen to the music. Both, Buddhas’ word. So , good to listen to the music, yah, its very good. So, there’s a reason for it. (01:11:28) And when its not good to listen to the music, there’s a reason for it. And similarly its good to watch television now and not good to watch television. Very simple. So looks contradictory but there’s no contradiction at all.(01:11:49)ok? The ?need? is a gross example, we are giving. Ah, now lets , in other words, thats anger attachment, attachment, anger ,ok in a in a one place when you go to the extent of the same attachment is the glue to samsara. Buddha said that. Samsaric life. It makes you stick to it makes you not be able to get out of it , you’re stuck in it. That’s one way. In the sutra practice it is true . In vajrayana practice (inaudible) attachment can be used as a path of development. Transformation of attachment can become a part(01:12:43) of it. Ok, that’s one word by Buddha, both yes and no, by both, both by Buddha its not contradictory. When the individual knows how to handle it can help. That’s it. So, non-contradictory nature or whatever so that’s why we have mentioned here ah very nicely what doctor said , experiential understanding of these instructions(01:13:14) will knit the meaning of all spiritual teachings in single (inaudible) fabric. If you know good Lam Rim background not only Buddha’s teaching but also good teachings whether its Hindu or whatever you find, anything what just going against ignorance. Ok. (01:13:40) even delusions, out of delusions , ignorance is some how the only delusion where you cannot transform it. You have to get rid of it. There is a (inaudible) view but (inaudible) goes on like that. (inaudible) what you’re saying. So, but , but mostly the ignorance is , there is not the (Tib.) right? There is (Tib.), there is (Tib.) there is uhm (Tib.). the pride can be transformed as path, attachment, anger, but never ignorance.(01:14:17) Never. Even in tantra, no. The ignorance is somehow, somehow totally no. So , what did i’m saying? So , anything which is going against ignorance, hidden ignorance, no matter whoever taught, by taught by Buddha or who ever taught, (01:14:39) so you may one be able to knit it together to one individuals practice of fabric so you can wear it , keep yourself warm, or cool , whatever, but covered it up , you know, you can knit it in and which is the quality of this teaching will give you. We give you very strong example many times. So if you little foundation basis in your house little tea, and sugar , and salt(01:15:11) separate apart if you keep it, and if you find some additional anywhere you can dump them in the one part. If you find a handful of sugar you can put them in sugar part, if you find handful of salt lying there you can mix them up with the salt. Right? So if you have the basis of that if you worked out , you know where to do , what to do. Otherwise if you find a handful of salt and sugar you can mix them together(01:15:38) you ?can? do anything, right? Thats the problem. So what Lam Rim does is provide this basis for the individual to be able to observe so anything where ever you get it whatever. So almost everything where ever you look any point makes some kind of a Buddhist uh message(01:16:00) or Buddhist uh something you work is because it has this basis work in the individual, so where ever you look you can, you can look into the to the to some kind of you can relate and you can make it sense through the spiritual path you can be able to (01:16:17)?meditate? Because thats what foundation worked out. ok. So thats what the quality you get it out of Lam Rim. So Lam Rim has that quality. To be able to develop . So that is the non-contradictory nature whatever we’ve been talking. And maybe that’s good enough for that point. Otherwise I should go a little more detail supposed to be, but . So , when they say no contradictory , I make it , I make a little more clear. What does that mean? The words are contradictory , yes you eat meat, and yes you don’t eat meat. It contradicts, but it (01:17:05) doesn’t contradict with the individual. At the stage of the practice where ever you are. doesn’t contradict. There are times you need it , there are times you don’t need it. so. So in this point all the all of them be able to take by one individual to develop oneself to the Buddha’s stage. Without contradictoring. You know that’s as a path. So some of them become like a principle of the path, (01:17:39) some of them become like a branch of the path, some of them become important, some of them are not that important but somehow it will all help some individual to move up. Did you get it? that’s why it doesn’t contradict. Lets say we are Bodhisattvas. So what is the activities of the Bodhisattvas? What is it? (student: ‘the six’)(01:18:07) Six for what? Why the Bodhisattvas have to be , have to have generosity, patience , all this, why? You just bring the six in. Why the six is needed? (student, inaudible) Why do you (inaudible) Buddha hood? See , the point of the mind , how it works. Ok? When the mind works me me me me I I I I I(01:18:41) ok thats I (inaudible?opt in?) Buddha hood. Ok, looking that direction. (student , partial but inaud) ‘as well as all others’)(01:18:54) ‘that to me , when I think of Buddha hood, I never think of Buddha hood fulfilling my personal objective’) You don’t? However when you want to ?opt in? Buddha hood, what do you think? Yeah Buddha hood is for purpose of two, me and others. But when you are seeking Buddha hood, what do you think? ( student: if you’re thinking I want to be a Buddha’) yeah do you or you don’t (‘the odds are you’re actually thinking of you know I want...’) do you think , do you think you want to be a Buddha or you don’t think you want to be a Buddha? (01:19:30) (‘well I’ve never...’) Be honest, Doctor. (laughs) (‘...honestly , I’ve never had one dream about becoming a Buddha.’) (laughs) You didn’t dream. Do you, do you have desire? (‘..I have desire, yeah. )(01:19:44) Ok. So , you’re thinking of becoming a Buddha. (‘..yeah I’m thinking seriously about it...(laughter)’) Isn’t that a contradiction now? Like that, like the Chinese thing, chinese Charlie, what that, he said “contradiction please” (‘...charlie chan...’) (01:20:07) (laughs) In the television, “contradiction please.” (‘...I have the desire that others should be free of problems and that I could actually , you know , solve them, somehow that I could be in that position….I think of that combination..’) The essence of the Bodhi(01:20:31) the desire of the Bodhisattvas in order to help and serve other sentient beings. In order to get that perfect, one needs to opt in Buddha hood. That’ why all the time we say ‘for the benefit of all sentient beings I would (inaudible) for the benefit of all sentient beings. The reason why, bringing that on the mouth piece(01:20:53) like on the lips and become like lip service, is the Buddha hood is to serve all other beings. Yeah , really. So, therefore the essence of the Bodhisattvas are to help others. Right? So in order to help others , uh like you know you find a lot of different varieties of the people. Some people are simple in to state, just to opt in liberation, (inaudible) that’s that. Some people are interested only ah to become a Bodhisattva and something like that. And some people have interest to practice Vajrayana and become a Buddha very quick. So there are three, four , even for some people are not even interested (01:21:47) and which you can’t help much. Because they are not, when we say you want to be open they say they are not interested, they’re not open. When they’re not open, what can you do. You can bang the door and they don’t open, what can you do? Right, you cannot break and rob them. So they have to go away. That’s what normally it is. (01:22:08) So those who are open and interested (inaudible) they have three different categories. Right? So the three different categories, if you are Bodhisattva and you want to serve and help the three different categories interest, you need to know the three different purposes, three different ways, three different points. Otherwise you can only help the Mahayana one , you will not be able to help the Hinayana ones.(01:22:37) You are already able to help the sutrayana ones, you will not be able to help the trantrayana ones. So in order to serve them three different categories it is absolutely necessary to need to know the principle way how to get at least. So that is the Bodhisattvas’ job. Otherwise Bodhisattva will not be able to help. Like the Chandrakirti(01:23:06) no, not the Chandrakirti , the other one, Dharmakirti. Has said(Tib.): if you don’t know the method, if its a method that’s not known to you , how you can present ? So thats why if the Bodhisattva wanted to help all other beings to lead it is necessary for the Bodhisattva to pick up those methods. Learn it , practice, gain experience(01:23:34) and the present. If you are, if you don’t know what you are going to present you can only show this. That’s that, what else, right? (Tib.) I’m sure you have read that. It is the window game. Um ah Mitreya(Tib.) so the Bodhisattva path is also known as (01:24:09) ?Lam She?, right? The Buddha’s path is known as ?Nam She? And our basic path is know as ?She She? . So the ?she lam de sum? The foundation , the path and the result. The Bodhisattva is the path. So knowing path is the Bodhisattvas’ job. (01:24:33) If you don’t know the path how you can lead, how you can become a guide? When you don’t know where to go. If you have no idea what highway to take to get to Lansing how can you (01:24:52) how can you be the lead the caravan to Lansing? No way. So knowing is important. So what does the Bodhisattva have to learn? Bodhisattvas have to learn, have (01:25:13) to learn three things. (Tib.) Ok? Would you like to say that in English? (student: ‘ you have to learn the path of the listeners to the doctrine , the hearers, the Shravakas they call it in sanskrit’) (01:25:39) Did you all here that? Shravakas , the hearings. (...listeners to the teachings, then the solitary realizers, …’) What is the listeners? Did you get that? What is he’s talking about? There’s a problem there (01:25:55) you did not communicate to the people. You understand, I understand, you understand. (laughs) but you did not communicate to the others. Please, help. (‘...well Rinpoche was speaking about the three types and uh this is also a selection of three types of individuals practicing in three paths that Buddha taught...’)(01:26:23)(‘...uh one, two of them lead to liberation and one leads to Enlightenment, to Buddha hood. So the , of the first category , those two types , there’s those who listen and learn from teachers and those who develop their understanding through, on their own. And of those two types the first is called, its Sanskrit name is called Shakala which means listeners to the doctrine or the disciples or path , I don’t know how its...’)(01:26:51) Did you get it? Did you get it , what he said? What did he say? You have knowledge, ?Chris? has knowledge, what did you understand? You you you , ?chris benson? (‘...i’m not sure, I’m listening to all this information waiting until he gets done...’)(01:27:05) (‘..so I can...’) he did the first part (‘...I heard what he said, but...’) What did he say? ‘...well he said theres this thing called Shravakas and I’m not sure how to spell it...’) Doesn’t matter.(01:27:16) (muddled speech) (laughter) She called that listener. What does that mean? She didn’t give that, that’s why(student ‘...listen to the teachings)that’s what, every body listens to the teachings. Bodhisattvas (01:27:35) listen to the teachings, but they’re not called listeners , why? She didn’t give that.(‘… you listen and learn, yeah he did…,he said you listen and learn...’ the Bodhisattvas listen and learn too. (‘..no , I explained the difference (01:27:54) between the Shravakas and the solitary..’ Pratyeka Buddhas,yeah, but , what is Shravakas , what does listen mean? You didn’t give that. (‘..you know the way that solitary realizers work is that they..’ the point is that you’re missing one important point. Get that point and people communicate it straight away. (‘..who are the listeners...’) (words in Tib.) they’re called listeners , why?(01:28:27) (‘..they study.’ ) huh? They are called listeners , why? (‘..they study from teachers..’) The Bodhisattvas do that too, why are they not called listeners? (‘..their path is a different path, I mean they..’) They practice. Practice what? (‘..they (01:28:53) practice the Mahayana..’) Mahayana. The others don’t practice, but they listen. That’s why called listeners. That, if you compare that it makes easy. The Hinayana practitioners, followers, are called listeners by the Buddha a number of times. Why? They said (Tib.) says “ today I heard you are teaching Mahayana, I cannot practice that, but (01:29:26) I carry your message and convey.” So they listen and repeat. But they don’t practice. So they said this is not my path. I listen to your teachings, I carry your messages, pass it on. I do not practice. (‘..they don’t practice the Mahayana..’) They don’t practice the Mahayana path. Path , Mahayana path what you here. But they have their own practice, right? Theravadan. They listen to the Mahayana path. So they just carry the message and relay out, but they(01:30:00) don’t practice Mahayana path. So that’s why it’s called Listeners. (inaudible(01:30:07) and then all this, but the important point is listener is that is listen , that is the highest job they do for Mahayana path. (‘...Pratyekas don’t even listen...’) Pratyekas don’t even listen, that’s right. They don’t even listen, that’s why. (‘...so solitary..’) So solitary ones they don’t even listen to it. (‘...solitary not a good word to use, they don’t necessarily go along, I mean there’s groups of them..’) Thats all right. (‘...but they’re not necessarily along...’) (G.R. laughing) They like the open air a lot. (laughs) Anyway , lets go that way. So, so if you are Bodhisattva path so you need not only you need to know the Bodhisattva principles but in order to be the Bodhisattva principles you need the Hinayana principles, too. And normally you don’t call it Hinayana, they get offended. They say, “we’re not smaller, you’re not bigger.”(01:31:16) It’’s not the point of smaller or bigger. Here you call it , the purpose of you choose calling it Hinayana because normally we say oh , I’m a Mahayana, this is Hinayana, yanh(!) sort of looking down, you cannot. You don’t, if you don’t have the principle of that you cannot build Mahayana. There was one Indian professor ,a very old friend of mine, he died, he’s called ?Obadeya?

Obedeya used to come to all the three monasteries (01:31:51) ?Drepung?Serra, Ganden, and the teach

were having meetings, we were having meetings in (inaudible) once and Obedeya came and Obedeya give a talk he said “ Oh you, I know(he said) very few (01:31:45) Indian Buddhist scholars will know what really Mahayana(01:32:05)………..cont.next.file.