Archive Result

;;Soundfile 19901100GRJHNLLR03

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Netherlands

Topic Lam Rim

Transcriber Brian Cort

Date March 28, 2021

(Note: The audio file has an echo. The echo is there on both right channel and left - there’s no difference if audio player balance is put all the way right or all the way left.)

0:00.0

From the Buddhist point of view, I’m talking about from the Buddha’s teaching, which has not been given or taught by Buddha, which has not been available in the teachings of the Buddha, whether it’s the Sutra or Tantra - that is the major point I’m trying to make.

0:19

In other words, you try to look for some kind of secret or secrecy, and the major path, major way you get into it, you sort of somehow ignore, not only ignore, but sort of you depart the path, you go away from the path which you are really leading to a better way, and somehow you hold on some kind of branch of a certain little thing which you consider as a secret or something I don’t know whatever it is, so in that, if you over carry that, probably individual would have more … you lose! You have a lot of more disservice than of benefit. That’s what I’m thinking - in those lines.

1:12

Particularly when you are really not sure what you are doing in practice, how and what, whenever there is a certain something comes and talks to you some strange thing, and all of a suddenly and try to be holding you to it, may not be that great. That’s what is the main point here.

1:40

well… this two way two is different than the second of the four outlines that you’ve given us in the original Lam Rim teaching that you gave. But then just based on this one, two way two, <…> where all spiritual texts are to be taken as sound advice

2:12 Rimpoche

OK, that’s what I’m talking about

2:14

Right - that seems to be very tangible (tantamount?) to what you’re talking about now in terms of viewing all the texts as being equally sacred and equal, you know seeing the value of all these things, and not just looking for but that other, whole other piece that you talked about … preceding that, about having the ability to discriminate the value of the teaching, whether it’s leading you… is that part of that, also part of this point here …

2:35 Rimpoche

Under this, yes under this I’m trying to cover it up, under this. Because you have to take everything as a practice - definitely important - but also you have to have the wisdom and the capability of seeing whether everything is something that you want to do it or not. That’s the - I want you to have the wisdom to be able to discriminate - discriminate. And that’s what… nothing to be criticized in the teaching or in the practice, but what is the meant for you, what you can do, what it’s relevant for … that is very very important.

3:19

And also over here, I’m going to mention it, whatever it might be. So a number of us, people, friends here, maybe not clear but , many people are very enthusiastic about taking initiations. Even without knowing what it is, and without knowing what teaching are you getting initiated, what practice are you getting it, and who is this Lama who’s giving the initiation, what is the background of that person, all of them, without this knowing, maybe there’s a small little advertising or pamphlet somewhere, and people want to take so much initiation. And one of the friends who are in this group, they are not in today, I had to spend time with him at that time, and I was sick, trying to go through what he can do, what he cannot do, this fellow has taken so much initiations, and had so much commitment of saying sadhanas, and if he has to do all of the sadhanas, it would take not less than 4 hours a day. Not less than, if he had to do that. So there was no way the person could do it, no way! So this much bundle of (words not clear here: at 04:51 to 04:54) , and so this thing happens , so it’s not very nice - while it’s great if you can take those initiations - wonderful, great.

5:08

But then - for why you take the initiation? It’s the purpose to practice. So then you can’t do the commitment, right? So what is the use? It will only make not serve not only oneself, to go into the Vajra hell, but also to make the person who gave you the initiation also in trouble. So that’s what it is. So the Vajrayana is very dangerous too. So that’s why it is important to know what should be done, what should not be done, so simply where to judge is I’m trying to give you a little simple way, simple way to judge is - is it going to help me, to bring me closer to the enlightenment level, and manageable. Which - each one of those initiations, great! But you’ve not been managing at all.

06:12

So that’s what happens. So when we hear, people say, “well I’ve been practicing for 14 years, I want to come in, in your highest group.” That’s what we get some telephone calls, they say, “I’ve been practicing 14 years, I want to be the highest group whatever you have. I heard there’s some highest group and lower group.”

06:38

It’s not higher and lower. It’s not that, nobody’s higher, nobody’s low. But how much you have done, how much you have studied and how much familiar, how much not familiar, that’s what it’s counting, and that’s very simple, right? It’s not that nobody’s high and nobody’s low, that’s what it is. So I got a telephone call, saying that “I’ve been practicing Buddhism for 14 years, I want to be in the highest group, not in the lower group (chuckles). So, I mean people like that does that, so…. Anyway I begin to worry, 14 years - how many commitments do you have you know? How much you do? You never know, so…

7:28

Some of those they say it’s advice, secret advice, so you take them and then see. If it doesn’t help you to get comprehends in those great teachings, it doesn’t help, it means definitely something’s wrong with that. It’s not necessarily to be great. And that’s what it is. That’s how you - if you have to discriminate, that’s how you do.

08:00

I’m talking from the Buddhist background, the buddhist point of view, so that’s why I’m talking about Buddha. So then similarly Hindus would have the same way of judging, and same that all other great teachers have given, I’m sure their some way of judging, but it’s also important to have a little discrimination too, otherwise everything is grey, and maybe not best if everything is grey.

08:35

Here, what we are talking here is … some people think the great practice is something very secretly taught, and somewhere else, and the major buddha’s work and buddha’s teachings have nothing to do. And all these great Indian saints and Tibetan masters have nothing to do, not relevant, OK? So some people say well, it’s very good for teaching and explanation and debating it’s very good — not for meditation and practice. They say, some are very good, or this is very good for meditation, but not, may not be so great as teaching and debate and explanation, but great for meditation. But that may be great for teaching, talking and explanation, but nothing good for meditation. And that’s the, again wrong point. That’s the wrong point because if you can present well, if there’s something to talk and present and discuss, that means there is some substance. If there is something great secret and great to be meditate, but it cannot stand on the point of discussion then there’s something wrong. Did you get me? OK?

10:22

So,

Telesumka dronpa che

This is the very important point - by learning and thinking, all misunderstandings have to be cut out. So the way to cut out is if your presentation is pure, and pure, then it should be able to stand against contradictions, and against anything that brings you wrong. It should be able to stand out. If you’re right, it should be able to stand. And prove to be right. And if you cannot stand for that, if you have to hide under some kind of

11:09

<“yes” 11:09 - This “yes” may have been Rimpoche answering someone who had asked him something quick (e.g. “do you want me to put your tea here?”)>

just meditate in that manner, don’t talk too much, don’t think too much, don’t discuss too much.” If you have to hide under that, it probably has no … something wrong. So… something wrong. And that’s… I’m not talking… this is here, this book here. Tsongkapa’s Lam Rim Chenmo has said that. It’s saying that great Lam Rim saying that. So that is the point, and you may be able to see and discriminate whether… check yourself, that’s what I mean. Check yourself. It’s not that… I’m not trying to say what we are doing is the best, no I’m not. I’m trying to say, how we can discriminate, ourself — with the limited knowledge of the background, how we can do, so this is the point I’m trying to bring it up, OK?

12:13

Very simply people do that, a lot of people do that. But on the other hand, people who are not that sort of bright intellectual, but certain points where you say, “OK just do this, just do that, just do that” so then people follow it. And there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s perfect. But that also, if it’s brought to a subject of great discussion and debate, and also try to prove its authenticity, should be able to stand it. Right? If you cannot stand on that way, and then it’s great secret business, might not necessarily be right. I can tell you, “go down there, sit in the rain naked, and bring, pick up three pebbles and go around 10 times, and you’ll be liberated, but don’t tell it to anybody else, it is secret.” So what, how do we know that’s not right?

13:21

First you may think I’m joking, if I’ve been able to convince you that I’m no more joking, you may probably do it. Some may not do it. Some may do it, right? Some may try, that’s right. So to make sure… so what you do, OK, what you do, OK, now you try to think. Sitting naked in the rain out there in the city during the daylight, is it something right to do? OK, just forget about the social things, even spiritually, say “alright, what benefit do I get”? Think about it. So don’t think blindly, think about it. And practice, you lose nothing except embarrassment. You may think, oh this embarrassment is meant, for me, purification. Always we have that type of mind, mental attitude comes up to support. That may be for my purification, or that may be, or I read in some diary of some siddhi who did this and that, maybe something like that. So then naturally, some may try it. But if I’m told to do that, I probably will think, what benefit do I get? What is that meant for. Or maybe that Lama of mine has gone crazy. So I would rather not do it, OK? I draw the conclusion that way, I will not do it. Because that doesn’t benefit me. I don’t see any benefit. You may ask, what benefit do I have? If I have something to be able to tell you, I’ll say alright, there’s this and this and this benefit is there. Then you think. If I’m not able to tell you anything, if I say, “well, you will learn later” or what should I say, “Oh, that’s secret. If I tell that secrecy, you’ll lose the value.” OK, well that makes you think more, right?

15:30

So how can you discriminate that? Buddha never said you do that. Buddha never said stand naked in the public and sit in the rain. He never said that. Buddha said,

Tun ne bide chu me chushen sula

He said, you cannot wash away your non-virtuous actions by water. On the contrary. Buddha doesn’t say you can wash it.

16:04

In the Vajrayana initiations - you have water initiations which purify - that’s not water in the public rain, but it’s special water, right? So to be able to discriminate that, it has become very important. I think it’s a time to America, Buddhist practitioners to be able to wake up now. It is important.

Audience: I was going to say… It seems to me that to a certain extent, especially when you’re first beginning your practice, I mean, a lot of people, I mean I know from my own experience, that we have such a huge amount of ego in the way, that you… you just can’t tell what’s going to be good for you to a certain extent, you know? And at some point you have to sort of just go on the faith of your teacher’s experience and just, you might say man, this is not helping me at all, I mean this might take… it might be something that you have to do for over a period of it a year, where it seems like you’re just suffering, and then some day, one day you look back and you say wow, that’s why I was doing that and that’s really making me patient that’s really helped me develop my stability or my perseverance or whatever, so I mean, I think it’s not so cut and dried, that you have to just sort of look at it, like in your mind and stop fighting saying that’s not going to help me you know? I think sometimes you have sort of go through this thing for a period of time, maybe a year or two years and then you see the benefit of it. And that’s where I think you have to at some point really have faith in your teacher - that’s critical.

2nd Audience member: But that’s because you see the results that your teacher has obtained from those things and that’s what inspires you to do it, it’s not that you don’t see any result…

17:44 Rimpoche:

Not only that, certain purifications, things like that, what you have to do is, probably it doesn’t go against the advice of the Buddha, doesn’t go… and clearly it’s not taking the individual away from the progress and practice, so I’m throwing two things here one - going against the advice, and two - taking the individual away from the practice - from improvement. So these are the two basic points may be able to discriminate a little bit. I think it is time really to be able to wake up a little bit too. There are certain people who are really, I mean, especially in our Sangha in here, I don’t think there’s not so much blind faith, I hope, really, not so much, and yet on the other hand a sense of devotion you develop, that’s great - that’s different than blind faith. But the blindly people taking it, it’s also, it’s time to wake up. Otherwise, you lose a lot. That’s what I’m afraid of.

19:12

So non contradictory… that’s not non-contradictory, what’s that? Taking the … whatever that is… whatever that said - advice or something.

19:35

Especially when you come to listen to the Lam Rim teachings, OK? All of this long, long talk, boring, boring, boring talk, all of them you’re going to hear a lot, and all of them, they definitely try to present you the practice in that. OK? So you say, “well I’m going to attend Lam Rim teachings, and so well, I don’t have a practice, but I go there, and listen to Lam Rim.” All right? If you say that, again the same thing is happening. OK? The same thing happening. OK, I listen to Lam Rim, but I have no practice. The practice means I have to go and some whisper somewhere else. OK? That means, the open path, you leave the open path, You sort of, you don’t go on the highway, but especially you’re searching some kind of small little passage where you can, with a bumpy road where you can jump, maybe you can get, maybe you cannot get through, who knows? Sort of thing you’re looking for, that’s what happens.

20:51

So this is the major point I wanted. I been earlier talking to you about the main Buddha’s teaching. The main Buddha’s teaching has been combined either on all of those traditions they have different ways of presenting it. I’m not saying only Lam Rim is the correct way, no. All of those traditions have different teachings. And all these teachings are trying to throw you out, a practice to you. Out of these what you have to pick up is, what you’re taking note, when you’re taking note, you’re not - you don’t have to take a note of every word I say, it doesn’t mean anything. If you find anything useful in that, anything that helps you, anything that brings your mind level up, anything that hits your, hits your ego, anything that hits your anger, anything that you don’t like to hear it, things that you want to hide, and it has to be taking it out, poking the nose inside, poking my dirty nose in your secret hole or something, wherever you have kept it, picking up that, these are the points that really help you. It is the pinpointing, and this is the practice you’re getting out of this, and that you have to understand.

22:20

You know, we sort, sort of we talk a lot, we give you a lot of books to read, a lot of things, and “oh these are the… “, and “Oh I read about it”. Well, what does it say? “Well, I did read, but I mean it was a couple of days ago, I forgot about it.” Or, “Well, I think that’s something, something else…”. So that’s, if that happens, the effort you put in to learn, and practice what you do, is gone separate. If that happens, it’s not going to help you. The efforts, whatever you learn, it’s just simply become only learning purposes, and that also if you forget, within half an hour, and then, that’s it. All effort’s been wasted.

23:09

So that’s another, second point - what I’ve been earlier talking for the text and this and that and the main point, or practical point is that.

23:21

23:43

Here it also goes

Tam den la rala…

24:03

OK now, I think maybe I’m talking too much. So anyway, taking all of the teachings as perfect advice does not necessarily mean, you know a small little sadhana here, small little mantra there, small little this thing there, small little Ganden Lha Gyema here, it doesn’t mean you have taken the actual essence of the teaching of Buddha as practice, or perfect advice. Perfect advice means whatever you can hear, seen, heard about it, be able to take the essence out of it, and be able to put in the, pinpointed in the practice. So those essences you going to find where there are more detail, more profound, more detail, and much more there, you’re going to find much more, rather than something whispering, some corner somewhere, some secrecy, is not necessarily going to lead you in that

25:18

And also but some secrecy some things have sometimes some special quality, as Robert did mention. <(Thurman)? - Rimpoche did not specify>

25:25

But to figure out that, is … how to discriminate that I mentioned earlier - to see how much that’s helping you, and bring you closer to your goal, that is, enlightenment. Is is it going against experience that’s shared by Buddha? If so, best thing is to say goodbye. Otherwise you can waste tremendous, I mean you get caught into it, tremendous amount of time and energy, and after some time, you will find yourself same old mole that goes under the ground - mole. The moles will go under the ground for 6 months in the winter, right? So the same old mole will come out right, in the same old manner, after 6 months, so that’s what happens, OK? So if you have a different development, supposed to you look back after some time,

< ? 26:36 not clear on the word supposed here at 26:36. Sounds like super-set - but I can’t make out an alternative that makes sense here>

you find different within you. And then you’re reaching somewhere, you’re moving. And if you’re the same old mole goes in, same old mole comes out, nothing to be surprised. Wasted time, that’s what it is.

26:58

So I think with this I have to stop, because some people have to leave at 5.

27:12

So what did we do today? We did two outlines, the one the outline which we already did before, and we picked up… there are some people who are taking notes

27:27