Archive Result

Soundfile: 19921228GRWRLR3

Duration: 95:10 (1h 35m 10s)

Speaker: Gelek Rimpoche

Location: Unknown

Transcriber: Kimba Levitt

Topic: guru devotional practice; embracing human life; death; hell realms; refuge

… but it is. And when I look to my teachers, with the exception of the childhood as I told you, some of them I've been saying, "when he's going to die," but with the exception of a few of them, I will never look from the point of their faults. And that's none of my problem. None of my problem. I look for their qualities point. If you look from mthe angle of the quality, you're going to see hell of a quality within those spiritual masters. Hell of quality, which sort of way beyond our reach.

And if you keep on looking from the angle of faults only, you will always see faults. Even during the Buddha's lifetime. Today we look Buddha as a great buddha. Nobody questions Buddha, right? Nobody questions Jesus Christ; nobody questions Buddha; nobody really questions even the Prophet Mohammed. So nobody really questions those. But, during their lifetimes they have been constantly questioned, constantly criticized. Buddha particularly has been questioned and criticized by his own cousin, Devadatta. Constantly. They are always jealous of Buddha and always competing, always there. And even that vegetarian/non-vegetarian issue came from there. The non-veg — one of my teacher, called Gen Sonam Gompo —

0:02:04

Gen Sonam Gompo is one of the great geshes who refused to take a big name. Almost all the Loseling, that 11,000 or 12,000 monks, are students of Gen Sonam Gompo with the exception of monastery political officials. They don't even know much, you know? So they heard his name but they don't know who they really are, who he really is. But all others are almost his students. So Gen Sonam Gompo.

So what happened is I have a cousin who was a disciplinary officer of Loseling. So he's the big guy with all those puffed up and with a stick in hand. And so one day he went to a Loseling gathering. When we have two big gatherings, sometimes over there the group of monks meeting there and having tea served and saying a lot of prayers. Another group come into the meeting place just to collect the money, the distribution moneys. They don't say much prayers or anything. Just sit there. And they will come late and go early. So that is because some people are busy and some are with exempted. They don't have to go there. Some are with privilege and some are just busy. They have to do it. So that systems there.

So Gen Sonam Gompo into one of them and there are about, maybe about two or three thousand there. There are probably about eight or nine thousand meeting the two. And they all got up and moved around. So, moved around because they all sort of — they just meet, circles around and talking. And suddenly they saw Gen Sonam Gompo. Got a little white hair. Looks like very dignified. So walked in and everybody gots up. And the disciplinary action who, he just walked thereafter. Normally he expect everybody sitting down. So everybody moving around and he looked around, "what's happening?" So he saw this little gray-haired guy walking around and so everybody sort of moving around. So he got irritated. He said, "If you are great, you should come and look your face down from the throne." [INDECIPHERABLE] … become abbot of this monastery. So he choose not to become. He could have been long time.

He started scolding him and everybody sort of disgusted, turned around and doesn't say anything. He doesn't know who he's scolding. Scolding. And later on he told, "I didn't realize that is Geshe-la." He says, "I saw one gray-haired guy over there. Normally we don't even see. I don't see him normally around." He said, "I scolded." And he says, "Everybody sort of turned around and I did some mistake and I didn't know what I did it." So later his assistant sort of whispered, "That's Gen Sonam Gompo." And then since he said he cant' do anything. Walk other way. Didn't even look that side.

So that's what happens. some…

[PAUSE 0:05:17 - 0:05:22]

So Gen Sonam Gompo — why did I bring Gen Sonam Gompo here? For what reason I tried to bring this?

AUDIENCE: [INDECIPHERABLE]

RIMPOCHE: Yeah. Even this — yeah. That's right. And even this man, disciplinary action, scolded Gen Sonam Gompo. But that really he's not knowing who he is and scolded, slightly different. And but, but there is a lot of those criticisms are also bound to be. But what do you do if you're a practitioner? What do you do? On the one hand we tell you you should have intelligent questions. And here intelligent — when I say intelligent question, a lot of people thought, oh, you have to know the right question to ask. I'm not talking about that. Here the intelligent question is with your openness, without influence of criticism. With your openness. Open mind directly asking question, in this case, is an intelligent question. Ask politely. Don't ask ruthlessly but ask polite way. And with open minded. It is an intelligent question. Intelligent question does not really have to be exactly you know the right question and ask at the right time. That — we're not talking about that. Openly with sincerity. With open minded. Not with a closed mind. Not with doubt-oriented. I mean, if there is a little bit — if there is no little bit of doubt, you will not even think of questioning. But with little bit of doubt, when you have, is I heard this. I thought about it. I did not know exactly. I would like to know. Is there something do I have to worry about it? Or can I forget about it? Or is it some purpose there? Or why? What is it? So you can ask openly and satisfy yourself. Or, or you can see what benefits you the better. And that way I think that is really way to go.

0:08:03

In the traditional teachings they will say whatever you see, you hear, is not definitely necessary because, they say, the people with jaundice illness you'll see the snow mountain as white — yellow, and white conch shell as yellow. This and that they will give you example.

Even the Devadatta see Buddha as faulty everything. Though Buddha had special purposes, Devadatta always look at Buddha as very mean and manipulative person. I mean, his biggest criticism is mean and manipulating so he always try to project him as better than Buddha all the time. And that is where — yeah, Gen Sonam Gompo told me. The question of non-vegetarian and vegetarian issue came because Devadatta would like to impress upon the other followers that he is better than Buddha because Buddha talks about love-compassion but he eats flesh. I mean, the way he presented, he eats flesh. "I, Devadatta, who are not so much talking like Buddha as love and compassion oriented, but at least I don't eat flesh. I eat only greens." So that is how Devadatta even introduced the vegetarian during the — between Buddha and Devadatta. And his biggest point which where he can challenge Buddha is question of vegetarian and non-vegetarian. On that. I don't mean the vegetarian is bad. OK. I'm not trying to give you a message. Don't misunderstand. Don't overstate it. Just take it as it is. There's no hidden message, OK? I like to say that clearly because otherwise people pick up funny ways. So there is no hidden message. I'm just simply stating the fact whatever I heard, OK?

So, that's that. So like that, a lot of faults you will see it. But way and how you adjust. Again, comes back to the statement that Kyabje Ling Rinpoche makes: I want the benefit. I don't want disadvantages. That is very important statement. If you keep on thinking on that statement, every conclusions will come there so easily on the basis of what I get benefit.

Forget about the spiritual teacher. Even an ordinary friend, and any ordinary being, if you criticize, if you try to follow the criticism part of it, there's no benefit at all. You're not going to be benefitted by anything. And if you don't follow the criticism, there are a lot of criticisms could be true but many of them are jealousy oriented. Jealous oriented. And the jealous oriented and because they are jealous of that individual, so they will somehow say something. Some, with or without intention, with or without intention the jealousy can really throw the poison through community so easily.

0:11:51

Remember those eight fears we talk about in Tara practice? And I talk to you these eight fears are not necessarily fear as fear what we talk, but they are the nightmares of the spiritual practitioners. Huh?

[TIBETAN 0:12:09 - 0:12:20]

I forgot the jealousy. What is it? The snake. Huh?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Yeah. But does the word say?

[PAUSE 0:12:27 - 0:12:33]

How does the word goes?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: What did you say?

AUDIENCE: Jealousy. Envy.

RIMPOCHE: What is envy?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Yeah. No, no, no. I was looking for a particular verse by the 1st Dalai Lama on that.

[PAUSE 0:12:59 - 0:13:08]

I don't have the book with me anyway now. So,

[PAUSE AND TIBETAN 0:13:12 - 0:13:27]

I see this — I remember the last two words but I can't see it. It's sort of hiding between the — behind the ignorance. Behind the darkness of ignorance. And quickly sweep the poison to the around wherever it is.

[TIBETAN 0:13:43 - 0:13:46]

So it is very easy to throw the poison within the community and within the group of people with or without realizing. Maybe it's your personal fault. Maybe the individual others have fault. But with or without realizing, a little hint, a little bit of thing, oh I shouldn't say it because it's not nice but blah, blah. And maybe there is no blah, blah and we say it. That's even more powerful than that of just saying it whatever it is. So in any manner sort of throwing those things are the jealous which does. So which is very, very harmful not only against the spiritual uh, teachers, but even the friends. Even ordinary friends. Even among — not even a member of the sangha but even beyond that. Even in society in general. Anything which that type of thing, wherever it goes, sort of starting behind, is not a great at all. The person who does it maybe for a few minutes, or a few days, or a few weeks, or a few months are maybe your friend look like. But more you realize that this person has been doing the same thing to so-and-so behind, it is sure that person is doing the same thing behind you as well because it is in the blood of that particular person with or without realizing. Whether it is conscious or unconsciously they sort of do that. So person whoever says that, it has the characteristic of saying it even behind your own. So gradually you will know it. But at the moment, for a short time, it is very harmful. And it is harmful for a long run, but short time it looks like comforting, taking you in confidence. But in reality, that's what happens.

0:16:05

So, saying those criticisms against spiritual master — forget it. But even against ordinary individuals are not nice and not good. If there is a problem, say it openly. Speak openly. With open mind. The person whoever you asked the question, that person should also take it as open question, sincere question and give sincere answer. That is your duty. And even after giving that sincere answer, if that doesn't satisfy, that is their problem. It is no longer your problem. It is their problem. Their problem. You should be able to cut that way. Otherwise, you know, otherwise this criticism, criticizing the different spiritual teachers, particularly after they passed away, is not great. And it really puts a lot of problem for a lot of students. It's not very nice.

And so, so that's how you go about it anyway. So briefly I think that is about guru devotional practice. I don't think I need any more on that.

0:17:32

Now the second verse here is the embracing the life. (Can you read that?)

[PAUSE 0:17:38 - 0:17:50]

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] … so hard to redeem and so easily lost. It's brief as a flash of lightening. Seeing this, discard worldly activity like the husk of grain and strive day and night to take life's essence. I the yogi did that myself. You, oh liberation seeker, should do like that.

RIMPOCHE: Good. So that is the embracing the human life. Now we're moving to one step — uh, one step more. One step forward. And we're going — (what do we have here? What is it?)

[PAUSE AND TIBETAN 0:18:39 - 0:18:55]

OK. So here you have to have three important points. Point number one, recognizing the human life, importantness, and difficult to find. And I would like to have a very short summon up. So recognizing the human — by recognizing, by acknowledging importantness, so then you should really embrace the human life. So the recognition of the human life. I wonder if A___ could — can you say something about that and sum up a little bit?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Yeah, only the recognition part of it. Importantness of it I'll talk about it. Put up everybody — I get a little rest and everybody can hear it. Oh, you want this probably. Here you go.

[PAUSE, BACKGROUND NOISE 0:20:00 - 0:20:14]

AUDIENCE: Just a general, general explanation. OK. OK. Um, generally when we meditate on the recognition of a human life, we look at what are called the ten qualities or the ten — there's the ten qualities and eight endowments. But rather than listing those individually, which you can find in any book on the lam rim, the main point of this particular meditation is to see what our circumstances are, to really look at our present situation, to assess what opportunities are available to us, to look at our lifetime and all of the options that it offers and to see that as human beings we have not only the capability of reaching full enlightenment, of actualizing this full flower of buddhahood, but that we also have the circumstances in our life which are conducive to doing such. We have community. We have no oppression in the society around us which would prevent us from such things like, say, as people are struggling within Tibet even today. We have a place where dharma is being taught so we have access to the teachings through living teachers, through community, through texts, through many other avaialble options. We live in a place where it's available. We actually have all or most of our faculties available to us and so we're able to listen to the teachings. We're able to think about the teachings. We're able to meditate upon these things. And we're able to actualize the realizations within ourselves. So all of these things when we concentrate brings to a sense of place, or sense of who we are, what we are, and what we can accomplish and are meant to in some ways strip away the ordinary conventions by which we assess the quality of our life.

I don't know if you want me to go on more but that's just a very basic explanation of the recognition of the life and seeing its — seeing the opportunities that it offers.

0:22:46

RIMPOCHE: There's a life that offers opportunities and that what you really have in front of us.

AUDIENCE: Right. That this is what we at this — if we look at our life at this moment, if we see what we actually have at this time. If we look deeply, then we will come to certain recognitions about our situation which will provide us with the sense of enthusiasm about what our possibilities are. But then that leads immediately into the importance, so, I mean, anyway. I think that's enough.

[PAUSE 0:23:27 - 0:23:36]

RIMPOCHE: So let us make a little more — little perfect way around. A little perfect way of doing it. But on the other hand you also sort of see, you really see this life has providing us all this. It is just there. We don't — we ignore it. We don't pay much attention. But if we pick up, it's there. It is within us. We don't have to work for it. We don't have to starve for it. It's there. So instead of rejecting, we should embrace it.

AUDIENCE: Actually, one of the things I didn't mention that might be worth adding, is um, what's often recommended. And what it is, if you look at the eight leisures in the ten leisures and eight endowments, or one or the other, then what you'll see is that the first four are an examination of what the others are, how we might be experiencing our consciousness, where we would be experiencing different life form. So to reflect upon what it would be like if we were experiencing the consciousness and life of a hell being, or of a hungry ghost being, or of an animal being. Sorry I didn't get into that because I just mentioned the um, just referred people to the outlines. But uh, you know, that we're not — by virtue of the fact that it's not only that we are a human being, but that the state of being a human being is in fact a relative state. And it is relative to other forms of beings we could equally be eligible to be experiencing. And to reflect upon those states of being also brings us to a greater state of recognition of what our present opportunity is. So, I forgot to mention that.

0:26:36

RIMPOCHE: [INAUDIBLE] … now goes on to the importantness of it. This is M___'s territory.

AUDIENCE: Well, I guess the importance is really um, looking at what you can really — at first, it's looking at what you can accomplish with the opportunity that we have now. The fact that we're in this situation that A___ 's describing and that we have these different potentials and really looking to what we can achieve with it. Looking to — in the long run you can, through tantrayana practice you can achieve total enlightenment in this lifetime. And uh, even more um, in a very short term stage you can at least bring tranqulity and peace of mind to your life, and you can deal with a lot more problems, and deal with your day-to-day life in a much more sane way than we normally do. And to just look at how even a small amount of this time can be so fruitful in working towards changing our mindstream, changing our habitual patterns, and you know, even a short period like five minutes, or ten minutes, or an hour, if we really apply ourselves and uh, work, that we can accomplish something, that we can actually do something. And then there's also examples about why or ways to look at the life and ways to um, ways to help you remember how important the time is that we really have. And what we can do with that.

[PAUSE 0:27:26 - 0:27:32]

RIMPOCHE: [BARELY AUDIBLE] Can you give a more specific example?

AUDIENCE: Give an example? Of? Well, the example traditionally given you mean? Or just examples of what…

RIMPOCHE: [INAUDIBLE]

AUDIENCE: Examples within myself. Um, well I guess some of the examples that really comes home for me are, you have to look first at the first part of seeing what, what your other situations possibly could be. I mean, if you just look at the example, I mean Rimpoche wasn't using it as an example, but if you look at the people we see in Somalia that are on TV, I mean, that just shows you right there that there's no way you can ever begin to even think about — think about dharma or anything like that when you just, you can't even walk because you're so hungry. Or, or the other extreme would be people in Moscow who, you know, are just going around and uh, you know, just completely caught up in the whole — the whole game of, of, of this, this whole game of being important and being famous and, you know, being somebody, or whatever it is, and just not even having a moment to stop and question what they're really doing, or is it really going to make a difference, or are they going to be happy, or anything like that. And just, you're not having that chance to stop and uh, and really question that. And so I think both those, both those different sides show you that —

and I also think, it's interesting because it doesn't really say this I don't think, but I think that it's also the importance of a life also has to do with your consciousness at any given time. Like on one day you could wake up and be angry and have all kinds of disturbances and then you wouldn't have — you'd still have the capability. The precious human life is telling you that always have that opportunity to be able to change it, but there's also, I think, sort of very short term obstructions that come up that um, that prevent you from really reaching your full potential and developing yourself the way you can.

0:29:46

RIMPOCHE: [BARELY AUDIBLE] Anybody that would like to raise their hand? Next is easy to destroy, right? Oh, difficult to find. Who would like to do that? Yeah, M___. Don't do too much.

[PAUSE 0:30:07 - 0:30:16]

AUDIENCE: Well, I don't know how traditional my approach to this particular part of the subject is, but when I think about how difficult it is to acquire this human life, I mean there's different ways that you can view it without, as a Westerner, without even thinking about hell realms, or deva realms, or realms of which we might have no experience in our conscious memory. You can look around just at the variety of life just on this planet and see how many different life forms there are in terms of insects, in terms of animals, and in terms of human beings and you realize how rare it is with all the millions and billions of different critters that how rare your station is in being a human, realizing that mind is such a thing that it can find itself in any form. So here we are as humans. And then you look around at all the different humans on the planet and you look at what percentage has all their faculties and opportunity to examine — like M___ talked about the people in Somalia. They're suffering so much that they don't time to deal with philosophical issues or question the nature of their own existence. They're so poor.

So we have — not only are we human but we also have this opportunity to be able to look at this. And then here even in the United States how we have a high standard of living, or in the Western world, in general how we have a high standard of living that affords us the leisure to look at this. How very few people have the inclination. I mean, we could be born in very wealthy family or very uh, achievement, money-oriented worldly family where the idea of anything spiritual is just dismissed with a wave of the hand as being absolute bullshit. I mean, there's no uh — it's just seen as sort of a, some sort of fantasy. So not only do we have a human body in a place where we have the capacity and the inclination to spiritual practice, we've also met with a path. With a path that is unmistaken in its presentations. A complete path, that is, that has all the steps and levels between my ordinary human stage and the stage of complete enlightenment, as well as people that have realizations on all those, as well as teachers that have realizations on all those different places, as well as knowledge of the obstacles we're likely to encounter, and the antidotes for the obstacles that we're encountering at each different stage.

So indeed, if you look at it just from a numerical angle, it's very unlikely that any mind even on this planet would have the deck stacked in your favor as we have at this moment.

0:33:43

RIMPOCHE: What sort of cause is needed for that?

AUDIENCE: The cause here would be, at some point in the past having kept…

RIMPOCHE: At some point in the past.

AUDIENCE: At some point in the past having kept, having kept our commitments perfectly.

RIMPOCHE: Perfect morality, right?

AUDIENCE: Morality, here not in the Western sense that we're usually associated with.

RIMPOCHE: Then what else? What else then goes with that?

AUDIENCE: I don't know.

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION 0:34:19 - 0:34:58]

AUDIENCE: The example usually given in the teachings is about a blind tortoise, a blind turtle that lives in the ocean and only comes up once for air once every five hundred years and a life preserver floating on the ocean. And the odds of this turtle happening to surface that once every five hundred years and his head happening to come up perfectly in the ring, so to speak. It's a traditional example given.

RIMPOCHE: That is a traditional example, which really shows you how to difficult is it. Huh?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Oh it's a very good example! It's an example of almost impossible. Blind tortoise popping up head once in five hundred years and floating yoke and caught in it. Almost impossible, right? Every five hundred years popped up. It is really by chance we have this life. Otherwise, it's a really difficult life. Which makes it more important. Which really makes you, if you think carefully, it really makes you appreciate rather than rejecting. Rather than — rather than just paying no attention where the time goes by; doesn't know what's going on. Where the time goes. The time goes so fast! Without realizing we are passing — we are saying goodbye to 1992! What I remember is beginning of looking forward '92 and now it's already '92 is going.

0:36:48

And that is how time — and when you look at those little babies around, and I thought S___, [INDECIPHERABLE] S___ and R___'s baby the other day. He's big. He's walking around. Can you believe it? Only I know what is last time I remember is brought up like your baby up there. [INDECIPHERABLE] In that manner. And now he's walking around. And so if you look at how our children are growing, you know that much we're talking [INDECIPHERABLE]. [LAUGHTER]. It is, right? It is! So that shows how the time goes. And if you're not paying attention, end of life recognize and pay — acknowledge the, the deserving owner of this life. And rather than the other — little our personal problems letting take over and [INDECIPHERABLE] of life circle. Right? People say that. And that is not the point. So the point here is that life is precious. We mess up and but. [LAUGHTER] Precious and important. People really have to understand. And value.

You know, I give you example a couple of times today. I did give you example a couple of times here. The example what I give is — yeah that's right. You have to look after it. Take care of it. It is really a very precious one.

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION; SILENCE 0:38:43 - 0:39:05]

So that's what it is. I give very, very, sort of usual, normal picture. We say — we have — we are very impressed if somebody ask you what about a million dollar. People are very happy, right? If I'm going to give you a million dollars. You say, "Well, I'll give you a million dollars." Everybody will be happy, right? We will appreciate. We'll look for a million dollars, you say. Right? With surprise. But our life is much more worth to us than a million dollars. Much more. People won't buy it until I tell you, if someone comes up with a million dollars in cash, "I'll give this to you if you allow me to cut your neck." [LAUGHTER]

What's wrong with that? [LAUGHTER] Huh? Huh?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Yeah. That's right. So when you get that question, you know it which one you have to choose. Which one do you have to choose? Cutting the neck? No, you're not going to, right? But you're getting million dollars here! So now you laugh and say, "ha, ha, ha." Why? Because it is much more valuable.

There's another TV commercial here. For a watch called Pulsar. Right? The couple — American couple goes in Europe and they saw a little box. Have you seen it? Right? You did. Right? So there's a little box and they really like the box. And she says, "oh, that's a beautiful box. How much?" And this guy speaks some kind of European language, keeps on saying Pulsar. They have a watch. And she turns around and she said, "sounded like he wants your watch."

"But you give me that. I'm not going to give that watch. You give me a wedding present," or something. I forgot exactly. But I saw that, you know? And then he tooks out his watch and he look at it. He looks at the box. He says, "well, no thank you." Yeah, you saw that, right? You seen that television. And that shows this watch is more valuable than, no matter how great that box may be, but it is more important.

Likewise, if somebody will tell you give you a million dollar in cash and give your life, you're not going to give it. Unless your crazy. You're not going to give it. So that shows you how important, how valuable this life is. If you came to this circumstances, if you really get into it in that, then you know it. Otherwise, we normally taking granted. We pay no attention. We pay no attention. That's we have. Because we can do much more than that. We can do far better than a million dollars. That is, to cut our sufferings totally, once for all. To cut all our problems once for all. To achieve enlightenment.

0:43:07

I'm not saying you're going to get that tomorrow. I'm not saying, if you do this boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you're going to be next year liberated. I'm not saying that. If you constantly, continuously put the efforts step-by-step, it will build up by the time when you go. You have to go. No one lives. You have to go. By the time when you go, you go with something. You go with control. You go — it'll be like, it'll be like children returning home. It is really returning to home. And that's what you can get it. And that is the value why we wanted to save this life even over ten million dollars.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: I can raise more. [LAUGHTER] I know. Huh?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Even? [LAUGHTER] What is that?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Everybody leaves something. You know why we leave that? Hope of returning. Yes! You're not leaving it for — you may say great compassionate. No! You're returning — you're leaving it with hope of returning, hope of continuity. People build memories, so-and-so memorial hall, library, museum, blah, blah, blah. Huh? And all this are hope of return. Try to escape the death. Hope of return. Huh?

[TIBETAN 0:45:22 - 0:45:35]

Some people builds [TIBETAN 0:45:37 - 0:45:41], some people will leave your disciples who will follow and continue your traditions and teachings. Some will leave your children behind. A few of them will build big monuments, monasteries, museums, temples, and so and forth. And some will build a lot of wealth for future to continue. That's what people do to return. With the hope of returning.

[TIBETAN 0:46:15 - 0:46:24]

So even you die with hope of return back, you look back, and everybody build something, leave something, with a nice name. Call it contribution to the human beings, or societies, or something. With beautiful name. But it is the …

[AUDIO CUTS OF 0:46:41 - 0:48:39]

… he says, "the person, the beggar, who does not have neither dharma nor wealth, have nothing to live, but I have a little dictionary to pay the so much food I ate; for the human food that I ate. To pay for that, I leave a little dictionary book." This is somebody who composed dictionary in Tibetan. He wrote that.

[TIBETAN 0:49:00 - 0:49:04]

So this is what we do. It's not necessarily care and love for children. But it is sort of tradition and it leads to maybe you want to change your will probably ten times but you may not have the chance to do the ninth time or something. That goes that way, anyway. But that's really right. yeah. So, so that's — what is the matter?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: It is definitely for most time. I have a problem with that. Actually, the Western people are very fond of reincarnation, right? They're very fond of reincarnation! Why? Why? They want to continue. They don't want to die. That's what it is. Nagarjuna has said,

[TIBETAN 0:50:01 - 0:50:05]

Nagarjuna said try, try your best not to have reincarnation. If you achieve that, you cannot achieve anything better than that. But we are opposite. He said, incarnate lama, you admire it. Something great. OK. Whatever it is. Who knows? So, but we like to look for the incarnation. So we sort of look. People talk to me openly sometimes, "when I get back." They tell me that, right? "When I get back." OK. But you — I mean, it's a good thing that you accept you have to go. But you really don't want to go and you talk about when you get back. So that's what you do, right? So, you say, "when I want — when I get back." Actually, you don't want to die. So that's why the reincarnation is a good escape. Good escape. So is the continuation. The family name. The name of the house continue. You know, all this. Look on the traditional, big European, Asian families. They keep family name. Maybe not so much in America with exception of a few, like Kennedys or something. Not so much in — but European. Look at them. Each and everybody has some big thing, you know. [LAUGHS] So it is the continuing. That's what this. And even you can't have continuation of the individual, you substitute with the continuation of the last name. And uh, so that's how you do, right? So that's what it is. It is the escape for that. And that's what people do. Even I go. You know, we have a saying in Tibetan,

[TIBETAN 0:51:45 - 0:51:47]

So even the water go away, but the rocks underneath the water must remain. [LAUGHS] We have sayings things like that. Funny things. The water may go away but the rocks under that must remain. What you call those rocks?

AUDIENCE: Streambed.

RIMPOCHE: Streambed has to remain. So like that. So we say that. That is the actually a don't want; looking for continuation. Attachment to the continuation. That's what it is.

AUDIENCE: Is there a contradiction between the [INDECIPHERABLE] … and saying not to have an incarnation and the bodhisattva vow to reincarnate to help other people?

RIMPOCHE: There is no contradiction. Don't worry about the Tibetan Buddhism. There's no contradiction at all. You'll get a hundred different explanations. OK. Here I'll give you why. You may say, what Nagarjuna says, not to have reincarnation, is the Nagarjuna is the reincarnation oriented by the cause of karma and delusion should not have it. Bodhisattvas should have reincarnation if the reincarnation caused by the compassion and prayer commitment. Actually it is prayer. Here it is the word in Tibetan is monlam which may translate as prayer but I recognize it is actually commitment. So you're committing. Commitment. So the commitment and compassion which brings you back. That's why the how — I mean, for explanation there's no problem for whatsoever. But for practice, there may be. [LAUGHS] But that's what really is, you know? So anyway, that's what that is.

So, we don't want to die. We want to live. But we have to. Death is definite. The point is, death is definite.

[PAUSE 0:53:52 - 0:54:02]

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE AT FIRST] … 0:54:05 meditation on impermanence. The three main points, um, are the first one Rimpoche just said, death is definite. And when you think about the idea of death being definite, we realize that no beings, even the greatest beings, have been able to escape death. That the Buddha has died. That all the famous people, American presidents, great teachers, great actors and actresses, everybody that we can think of has had to die. There is no way to escape it. And we also will not escape it.

The second point, which is equally important is that the time of death is uncertain. That there are many more things in life that can cause us to die than that can cause us to live. We can be walking down the street and be hit by a car. We can, as Rimpoche said this morning, fail to wake up one morning; die in our sleep. And knowing this lends a certain urgency to our spiritual practice because if we really meditate carefully, and think carefully, and observe life carefully, and recognize that there really isn't anything clear about how long we're going to live. That quite often young people die before their parents. And quite often people just kind of die suddenly for no reason. And even though we tend to think that we ourselves are immune to this, we're not in fact immune to it and that we can die as easily as all these other people that we see on television or that, you know, their car is hijacked, or you know, gets hit by a drunk driver or who knows what.

So what happens is that when we recognize that we are going to die and that we don't know when, then we ask ourselves (and this leads to the third point), what can help at the time of my death? And when we think about that, we recognize that all the things that we have in this life can't help us. We can't take our money with us, no matter if it's one million or ten million dollars. We can't take our friends with us. We can't take our children and our possessions with us. No matter how many memorial libraries we leave in our name, we're still gonna die. So what is there that can help us? The only thing that can help us is the amount of spiritual development that we have placed on our mindstream, the sorts of imprints that we've made, the good karma that we've built up, the merit that we have accumulated, the amount of spiritual development that we have. And when we recognize this, it kind of puts things in perspective and helps us to prioritize what we should be doing with our time. So, when we do this meditation and, I mean, I must say, for me it was — the point when I was doing this for the first time, fairly scary to sit there and think very carefully about the fact that yes, I was going to die, I wasn't sure when, and what was I going to be able to take with me and help me. I — I really — I, I think that what happens to you, and what happened to me (just speaking personally) is that I just got very, very clear about the fact that of all the things in my life, there was nothing more important than what I was doing here and in terms of my development and in terms of my meditation because it just kind of cuts through all the crap of your life and you get to a place where you can get very clear and very motivated and have a real clear sense of urgency toward getting developed and toward doing spiritual practice to help you when that inevitable moment comes.

0:57:52

RIMPOCHE: Thank you. You covered three, all three of them. Anyway, so that is, that is the — I think are we covering the — isn't that second verse isn't it?

[TIBETAN 0:58:08 - 0:58:14]

So, this verse what 110? There — verse is it 10 or 110? Verse 10. That's right, verse 10. Right? Yeah, verse 10 in that Thurman's translation. Anyway. So the verse 10 is covered. So basically what you covered here is from the lam rim point of view, the fundamental root of all development is the guru devotional practice, which was two.

[TIBETAN 0:58:46 - 0:58:49]

The root of all developing profound faith and remember the kindness and respect. Then gain the respect. That two. And for the life: recognition, importantness, difficult to find. The difficult to find is also by nature it's difficult, by cause it's difficult, by it is difficult to find. All of those. So you have to — if you are practicing, you have to spend on time on this, analyzing, thinking and meditating. You really have to. If you do it — if you don't do it, it's not very good for you. If you do it, it will make you — make you feel, Wow! This life is like that. And it is important. I can achieve something. OK.

And it all, as I told you this morning, has to be geared towards making yourself free. Free of ordinary death, free of ordinary bardo, free of ordinary rebirth.

Now since we're linking with vajrayana, doesn't matter. Here we are talking about the death. We don't say a word about normal lam rim teachings. What you really have to achieve is, is the American desire. You have to skip the ordinary death. You don't want to have ordinary death. You want to skip the ordinary death. So when you want to skip the ordinary death, you have to substitute that. What do you substitute with this? You substitute with dharmakaya. The mind which recognizes the nature of emptiness, observing. That will substitute death as total. Then you're really freeing yourself. You substitute ordinary bardo with sambhogakaya. You substitute ordinary rebirth with nirmanakaya. Then you're really freeing yourself. That is the freedom what we're seeking. That is the freedom what we're aiming at it.

1:01:27

We're not seeking an ordinary freedom, so since you practice dharma, all the works whatever you have, whatever you want to touch, it magically pops up [SNAPS FINGERS] big, big, big, big; tak, tak, tak it goes. That is not the point. After some time it is possible to happen. You have — you don't put any efforts. I mean, you have to make — you have to know what you want it and when you decision, it'll appear. So that's — that will happen. But that is by-products. But what you really need to do is put you're here the freedom is you really get that freedom. So, that is the seeking freedom really means. We talk about the samsara, we talk about this, we talk about that. That is because the common with the medium level. So, so common with the lower level, anyway. So, cutting through; cutting through the ordinary death; cutting through the ordinary bardo; cutting through the ordinary rebirth. And that is the freedom. This freedom.

You may disappeared because your body has been no longer serviceable. You don't buy. I don't mean you become ghost, OK? [LAUGHS]

[PAUSE 1:02:54 - 1:03:01]

So, that's what it is. So the determination to be free is really talking here; looking — really, truly looking there. But you don't have it just now. We can make attempt. That's why this vajrayana practice, solid practice of vajrayana, is so important. And there you have opportunity to practice and opportunity to go through with it. That's why it's very important.

Truly speaking, in the sutra path, what can you do? When you die at the sutra level, what can you do? You can think about the Buddha and die. You can think about dharma. You die. You can think about love-compassion just before and that's all. And you can ask a few people to say a few prayers. And try to have good, positive thoughts and you try to, hope to link with that. That's all you can do. In vajrayana it's totally different way.

[PAUSE 1:04:21 - 1:04:28]

So that's why it is important. It is solid. I mean, if it's too early it is not very good but it is OK. As long as you have a better understanding of lam rim. Sometimes you have to make it that way. But it is important. If not really prepared properly then sometimes they say it is like putting the little child on the wild horse. Put a little child on a wild horse, then you know what happens. The horse will jump and go around, you know. [LAUGHS] You see like those cowboy guys. If you put a little children on that what will happen? Throw it away, so ten feet away somewhere. You can just throw it away it's lucky but the horse may drag it, or horse may kick it, or whatever, you know. You never know. So, but that's danger there. But however, if you sort of work hard, it'll be alright. That's what it is.

So, seeking the freedom. That really it boils down to that. Seeking the freedom of the samsaric symptoms. That's what you really seek, right? It is the samsaric symptoms: dying, rebirth, suffering, aging, sickness. All of them are samsaric symptoms. You try to get better with that. Try to cut it out. That's what it is.

So anyway, just now we don't have — among them, that's not only the point. Then when you say rebirth, if we just cut it easily there. But when you talk about bardo, even you talk about the bardo, even when you talk about the dying, it's not so simple. You know, normally in this, in the West, what you hear, they say when you're dying, die with dignity. And that's what they say at the most, right? And die peacefully and all this and that. To tell you the truth, you have no idea how the dying person is dying. We don't! We don't remember when we died. And few people who died remembered; come back and told stories. And I got quite a couple of them. Maybe hundreds I have. Actually I got them from JW. He brought them here. Right?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Yes. Yeah.

[PAUSE 1:07:29 - 1:07:34]

So, you have no idea what the dying person's really going through. We can talk about it. But you really have no idea. It's not that peaceful. Very few people have it peaceful. It is — it is very — the person who's dying is really very afraid. Really afraid. They may or may not be able to express they're very afraid. There's a tremendous suffering. There's pain. You can't breathe! Can you believe it? Think about that. If you can't breathe for a couple of [INDECIPHERABLE] and somebody choke you, what you going to go through? How much, how difficult it is. They really have to go through that. It's not that simple. It's as though you are buried under a mountain. It's not that easy.

Particularly, if you've been doing some kind of bad. Sometimes, you know, sometimes what we call it miserable ones, what we call it, it is is falling into the lower realms. And even this, the feeling of the lower realms already started experiencing just before you really died. That's what happens. I don't know whether many of you have heard or not, Kushog Bakula, a very well-known lama and head lama of Ladakh, and has a friend, or benefactor actually, a Nepalian-Tibetan mixed guy who does antique business from Nepal and sells antiques all over the world. And did a lot of smuggling of even the Nepalese museums and so and forth. And — and they did a lot of, lot of actually by selling the image are not really good. It is very bad for the individual practitioner. And, but this guy sold — this guy sold a lot of things which are in the monasteries which are over there and there. The buyers will come from all over the world. And he take them to the temples and museums and they make deals. And his job is to steal them and cut them out and deliver them outside of customs. That's about it. So, so they do have that, a lot of them. And one of them is they sold one of the very old image of some bodhisattva or something in some big old temple in Nepal. And suddenly what they did is they had this thing gone. They have their team and suddenly went and they tried to rob the image out of that temple. And apparently that image is somehow linked beyond their imagination. On the ground very far rooted down some metal huge rooted down somewhere. They do have a saying it is grown out — whether it is grown out of it or not, but a lot of feets going down there. He had no idea and he couldn't take it out. They have something to cut it. They couldn't even cut it. And then hammered and all sorts of things and they couldn't do it. By that time the temple keeper knew. He had a big bell to ring. He rang the bell. Whole village came and they, they beat them up, and caught them, and put them in jail. That's what — got him in jail. Of course, gradually they let him go, you know. Naturally, you know. It was [INDECIPHERABLE].

1:11:35

So the cut the image. They couldn't cut it. They have done several others but this one they couldn't do it. So. And this guy, you know what he did? Actually, actually he invited late Karmapa for Nepal. And Karmapa went. And he take Karmapa inside the Mercedes car up and down, a number of them. And the same car where he took the Karmapa up, he used that same car to take that image. So stealing and all. Probably whatever the motivation is, he did it. So he was arrested by the Nepalese. And Nepalese let him go.

And Indians got him somehow. They put him in the Indian jail. Then he became a benefactor to Kushog Bakula because he is not only a rinpoche, he is also a member of parliament. So through him they tried to get him released actually by becoming his benefactor. And later this guy died in India. Died in India. There's a medical center called Orinda [??] Medical Institute. He died there. And just before he died, Bakula Rinpoche sent me fifty rupees and a little note saying he's dying, please pray for him. And I wrote a short poem to Rinpoche. I said fifty rupees could not lift him up, it's so heavy. [LAUGHS] But happened, [LAUGHS] but what really happened is, this guy, before he died, you know the Tibetens — he's a mixture of Tibetan-Nepalian, so this guy has a buddha image. They brought a buddha image to when he's dying. And he said, "please take that away." He says, "what's happening?" He says this buddha jumps on him and he can't breathe. He says, "oh, please take those images away." After removing that buddha image, even after that, he says, "oh, take those images." He says all these walls become image and they jump on him. So that is — he's yelling and screaming that.

So definitely it is, it is the, it is the symptom of falling hell realm called dujom. Not Dujom Rinpoche's Dujom. This is really dujom, hell realm called dujom. So dujom where the heavy mountains looking like image, looking like sheep, looking like goat, looking like buffalo for those who are killing them, and come and smash them all. Or there are two mountains going BAH in-between the smashing. You don't die. You live. You suffer tremendously. And then you're reborn again, continuously. And that's — that sort of thing, that is the lower realm there. There are eight hot hells and eight cold hells are there. There are sixteen buddhist hells. [LAUGHS] I'm just joking. Buddhist hell. It's not a buddhist hell, but there are sixteen hells are there. A lot of people think buddhists doesn't have hells. There are a lot of suffering but they don't have hell. That's not true. There are sixteen of them. I rather not ask questions, but there are sixteen of them. And you do not have guarantee of not going to fall either one of them. We do. None of us have guarantee.

1:15:16

But one thing I tell you, this hell are not permanent. It is impermanent. Even you fall into those hell realms, you come out of it. But don't think it's not there. It is very much there. Not only that, there is a bigger hell called vajra hell. The vajrayana practitioners when they go to hell realm, they go to vajra hell. They don't go to ordinary hell. There are vajra hells even deeper and more intense than that of even all this sixteen different hells. And each one of them — each one of those eight hot hells are double the amount of suffering, physical, mental, and you don't have opportunity for emotional sufferings over there. It's too much physical and mental sufferings. So, so that is how they go. How they go. At each one of them increased double the amount. Like the lightest one, called yangsu, rebirth. When you're born in there, you do something, fight, die a hundred times a day, reborn a hundred times per day. So that is the lightest of all. Yangsu. Tigna. Then second one they draw the lines on your body and cut through, like the carpenters draw the line on the wood and then they pull the chainsaw through. And they do the same thing. Dujom is that the mountain type of thing crashing.

[TIBETAN, PAUSE 1:17:10 - 1:17:28]

And then there are certain, certain places and you'll see your friends or relations on the other side. They will call you. And you see that's across the water, across the street. You go towards. All, all happens to be tremendous physical suffering. By the time when you come across, all this — all your, probably all your flesh has been totally cut out. Probably walking only with bones. You'll be like skull on other side. But then it'll be, it will be rebuilt immediately [SNAPS FINGER] and then you have to continue somehow.

There's a tree and you see your friends and relations, dear loved ones, sitting up there and calling you. You go up. All this thorns will be cutted down; will cut you completely. By the time when you reach up there, they are down there. So that is really a delusion. The karmic delusion. That's what constantly goes on and up.

And then, then it is very like, then you're burned; burning like fire. And then after, bigger than that, is namay, which is inseparable your body and fire. You go in that manner. So these are the eight hot realms. And then the eight cold realms.

[TIBETAN 1:18:58 - 1:19:02]

So all this, you know, which you feel cold and you're shivering, and then you begin to crack the bodies like that of lotus stalk. And then it's begin big crack and all this eight different intensified cold realms. Each one of them are there.

If the people dying, feeling very cold, and wanted to have a lot of warmth, is the signal that probably they have developing desire for heat which will probably bring them a future rebirth of hot hell. And people who are feeling so hot, even it is cold but they're feeling so hot they've been throwing their bedsheets off all the time, is developing desire for coolness and which is probably possibility of linking rebirth in cold hell. They're there.

So if that happens, if the death happens to me today, what will happen to me? There's no certainty; no answer. We don't know. If we're lucky, we will link up to positive karma. If we're unlucky, we will link up to bad karma. It is almost as good as gambling. Yeah, it is! There is nothing, nothing to say what's going to happen.

So what we do? We don't have power to cut through. We don't have power to control. So we take refuge.

[SIDE CONVERSATION 1:20:47 - 1:20:56]

So we take refuge. So that is the immediate step we do. So to avoid falling those hot and cold hells, and hungry ghost, or becoming animal, pig in the slum of New Delhi or something. Yeah. Or Calcutta for that matter.

[PAUSE 1:21:21 - 1:21:43]

Or, the lobster behind the Chinese restaurant. In that water tank. Or rattlesnake that everybody will throw a stone at me. We have no guarantee at all. So that's why we take refuge to buddha, dharma and sangha. So sort of, sort of the emergency measure what we take is the refuge. That's why refuge becomes important. It is an emergency measure. Til we get control in our hand, we have to be sheltered. We have to be covered by the refuge. If you get control in your hand, then you don't have to be covered by the refuge. So until then, you have to be covered by the refugee policy. Yeah, that's true. It is. It is it. That's true. It is.

[PAUSE 1:23:16 - 1:23:25]

It is the R Care system, not the N Care but the RK. Refuge care system. So that's really what it is. Take refuge. And so the next step. Then you see. Now here you really see. Here you see what you have, how valuable you have, how impermanent it is, how fragile it is. If it breaks, what happens? There's a possibility of hot and cold hells and so how to avoid. And then comes the refuge in picture.

And also you see how systematic system it works within one's — can't you see how systematic it is? The spiritual path has to work and this [INDECIPHERABLE], it is very systematic. Buddhists call it very scientific but I don't know whether it is scientific or not, but it's very systematic. Very. One leads to another. That's why it called it step. One leads to another. One leads to what next? The moment you raise the question, what next, next is immediately there. That is really — that's what I mean the Tibetan buddhism really gives you substance. Substance. It really has tremendous substance. It's not a simple little thing here and there and disappear. No! It has tremendous substance. It is capable of delivering this naughty individual from this ordinary naughty level to extraordinary level. It's capable of delivering that. And that is a substance. If that's not substance, you don't have anything called substance in this world. Huh?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Substance. It is. It is tremendous. It's rich. And not only rich of that, it is valuable, useful for the individual. It is systematic. It works within an individual mind. And it is capable of leading it without realizing you're moving. That's what it is.

1:26:06

So the now the next is refuge, the emergency measure. R Care system. Hear it? Can you write — can you draft a policy for the R Care? [LAUGHS] We put the R Care business in here.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Right? He just done his law school so he can write the R Care system policy now. [LAUGHS]

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Oh, that is the GH did it. It is the karmic insurance. It's still there. Now we have to write the R Care policy. Anyway.

1:26:59

So the refuge what they do is I'm not capable of looking after just now but I seek help. Whom you seek help from? What don't you write this R Care policy anyway?

[INAUDIBLE, PAUSE 1:27:12 - 1:27:31]

AUDIENCE: Can I ask a question about non-violent action, [INAUDIBLE]?

RIMPOCHE: Yeah?

AUDIENCE: I heard that the butchers, they have a bigger hell they go to because they're killing the animals. But eating the animal is not considered to be a non-virtuous action. Why is that?

RIMPOCHE: Do you eat animals or do you eat animals' flesh?

AUDIENCE: You're asking me?

RIMPOCHE: Yeah.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, I'm saying yeah, why is it if you eat the animals…

RIMPOCHE: I don't eat animals.

AUDIENCE: You don't eat the animal?

RIMPOCHE: No.

AUDIENCE: No, I don't mean you personally.

RIMPOCHE: No, no. I do eat meat, but I don't eat animals.

AUDIENCE: OK. I get that there's a fine distinction there. I'm not quite getting it.

RIMPOCHE: Animal's dead. Animal's dead.

AUDIENCE: This morning you were saying that if you take money from a source that is not kosher, that is not good, that it's uh…

RIMPOCHE: Did I use the word kosher? [LAUGHTER]

AUDIENCE: So I'm saying, if the money comes from not a good source, then the offering is not good. So the same thing, if a butcher killing the animals and he's going to a particular hell, then the person (I eat the animal flesh too), but I don't find that one is considered to be a non-virtuous action but the other is not. And I don't see that.

RIMPOCHE: Eating flesh, eating meat, flesh, sounds terrible. Eating meat is a little better.

AUDIENCE: A little better?

RIMPOCHE: Sounds a little better.

AUDIENCE: Yeah.

AUDIENCE: It might be the same to the animals.

1:29:07

RIMPOCHE: Yeah. Might be the same to the animals, but eating meat is not a killing meat. You don't perform the act of the killing. So, the action is the one which really makes non-virtuous, not the um, not thereafter. So what — but you kill for you, or by you, or you make it killed through someone, it's the same thing. Then it is non-virtuous because you really created that suffering to that particular individual. But somebody else killed somebody somewhere else and you happens to get that a little piece of meat by paying a couple of bucks not necessarily the direct killing. However, I will not deny your contribution towards. You definitely contribute.

AUDIENCE: Can I buy something from a thief? He has a coat and he stole the coat. He doesn't steal it from me but he has a coat and I like that coat.

RIMPOCHE: You buy it. You buy it. That's fine.

AUDIENCE: I bought the coat …

RIMPOCHE: That's alright.

AUDIENCE: … I put [INDECIPHERABLE] … because I was embarrassed. I bought something stolen. I thought that was a non-virtuous action.

RIMPOCHE: Probably not?

AUDIENCE: It's not!

RIMPOCHE: Probably not.

AUDIENCE: OK!

RIMPOCHE: If I could buy a [LAUGHTER] — if I could buy a stolen coat which is good one and I like it, I will not shred it. I will use it. I'm sure.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Well, I don't know whether it's legal or what …

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION 1:31:02 - 1:31:05]

RIMPOCHE: He's a lawyer. He says, "depends on the State." [LAUGHTER]

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION 1:31:12 - 1:31:28]

RIMPOCHE: You know, Mr. A's feeling is a problem in society in general but it's not necessarily a being's non-virtuous karma. So C may buy, or D may buy, doesn't matter. Sounds like what?

AUDIENCE: [INDECIPHERABLE]

AUDIENCE: … art that is …

RIMPOCHE: What is it?

AUDIENCE: Would that be non-virtuous?

RIMPOCHE: I'm sorry, what did you say?

AUDIENCE: What about the people that bought the things from the temple in tibet? Would that be non-virtuous?

RIMPOCHE: I don't think so. I really don't think so. Somebody may have non-virtuous if they've stolen something.

AUDIENCE: What about the buyers?

RIMPOCHE: No, no, no, no. Definitely not. Definitely not. I'll be happy to get one if I can find it. [LAUGHTER]

1:32:33

AUDIENCE: [INDECIPHERABLE] … all the big people in Wall Street

RIMPOCHE: That's right. That is non-virtuous so that's particularly the person who — you know what Buddha said? Buddha said the army generals, or the man who declares the war, in our days it's Bush. Now we don't have to say much. He's running for. — has much more non-virtuous than that of those soldiers who are directly involved, whether throwing bombs or, or shooting guns face-to-face. They have one killing, or a hundred killings, or a thousand killings. That's it. But the commander who issued the order has a non-virtuous of every single — not only a human being but even animals and insects, and consequences thereafter, is this guy's going to pay for it.

AUDIENCE: Wow.

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION 1:34:02 - 1:34:11]

RIMPOCHE: So that's what it is. Likewise, the drug lord who is living a good life in Switzerland collecting all this money will have the non-virtuous karma and consequences of all this.

AUDIENCE: What about the Nazis who say they were only following orders?

RIMPOCHE: That boy has a — that boy has a non-virtuous action of following the order. Whatever is responsible, 1, 2, 3, 4, 200k, whatever it is, that's responsible. But the — but the other guy behind that, the guy with the mustache, has much more. Everything he has.

AUDIENCE: If I bought something from somebody who I knew stole it, I'm buying something that I know was stolen …

[AUDIO ENDS 1:35:10]