Archive Result

Soundfile: 19921228GRWRLR4

Duration: 95:34 (1h 35m 34s)

Speaker: Gelek Rimpoche

Location: Unknown

Transcriber: Kimba Levitt

Topic: non-violence; refuge [completes common with lower]; karma

RIMPOCHE: … [INAUDIBLE]

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] … it's the commander is the one whose actually getting the ball rolling by creating … [INAUDIBLE] … it has all this activity going on. Then the larger community on the basis of market availability of supply and demand. Through their demand their actually behaving as the commander and they're having the greater responsibility for the ultimate devouring of the animals.

RIMPOCHE: Sorry. No. [LAUGHTER] The point is, the point is the market will just not order that guy who you really know has stolen it — you're not going to order him, you're not going to order that person for stealing, so therefore you're not responsible.

AUDIENCE: But I'm seeing it as a common …

RIMPOCHE: You may see it but it does not materialize.

AUDIENCE: It's common cause as opposed to specific. It's common cause. It's actually broader. And by being more pervasive it's less visible but it's there. And it wouldn't occur if that common cause as the general populous …

RIMPOCHE: Yeah, but even you don't buy them, there will be somebody else who'll buy it.

AUDIENCE: Well, that's an excuse.

RIMPOCHE: Not an excuse! Not an excuse.

AUDIENCE: Gandhi worked on a principle I think basic to this which is by his passive — passive resistance — I mean, by his active resistance to that, then he was able to contradict that general populous bringing it. So I disagree. I still think that by contributing that you are affecting the condition that brings …

RIMPOCHE: I did not deny the contribution, but I'm still saying that it is not a direct non-virtuous. I definitely say it. And even the — even you bringing the Gandhi-ji as an example, and talking about Gandhi-ji's life and non-virtuous — non-violence is known no doubt is a great movement. But non-violence is not necessarily non-suffering either. If you look at that, it has caused tremendous suffering to a lot of people. People who are asked to take the beatings, people who are asked to be a target of major musket (??) they took in Punjab, people who are being subject of the lucky charge they call it, right? The stick beating, or lucky charge. And all of them are involved suffering. Whether it's violence or non-violence I'm not even sure. I'm not even sure. I'm not even sure. For me, it is very — to tell you the truth, I mean, everybody respects Gandhi. We have tremendous regard on Gandhi. He's great, no doubt. But, it definitely caused suffering. Might not have caused suffering to the British, but it definitely caused suffering to the Indians. They make them pay, make them pay a price for at the end. I mean, either you get something not fully satisfying. Hindu-Muslims divided and even today it's [INDECIPHERABLE]. India's gone in two pieces. Even today it's the same problem.

0:03:32

AUDIENCE: So what you're saying is that not being in samsara is not only inevitably experience suffering but it's also to be involved in causing suffering.

RIMPOCHE: It is!

AUDIENCE: I mean, just being a vegetarian you wear leather shoes, you wear belt, you do commerce with people who do. I mean, there's no great virtue in that sense in being a vegetarian. A little bit in the right direction.

RIMPOCHE: No, no, no. I will say being a vegetarian has a virtue. I mean, it means in the long run it cause a lot of less killing. That's possible. At the same time, you also have a lot of insects are also killed by growing vegetables. And also by driving the tractors around you equally cut those little worms are two pieces. Without any question. So, I mean …

AUDIENCE: It seems like what they said is the real…

AUDIENCE: The question is where is the virtue?

RIMPOCHE: The question is not the question of whether it is contribution or not contribution.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: No, it's not. The question is, the question is how to look after myself. Each and every individual's responsible of one individual karma. Therefore one has to know how to look after oneself. That's the question. That's the point. Really.

AUDIENCE: Isn't it implicit in meat-eaters line that they are happy that there are butchers? [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: I didn't get it.

AUDIENCE: Is it not implicit in the meat-eater's mind that he is happy that there are other people that kill for him? So he takes advantage of their bad karma.

RIMPOCHE: Yeah, he is taking advantage of their bad karma, but he is not also doing it consciously either. You're unconsciously you just walk through the supermarket, you see a nice looking piece of meat and it's quite reasonable. You pick up.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: It's not denial. You're buying it. Nothing's denying there. You're not — you're not denying anything. You're not denying it's meat. You're not denying it belongs to, some time ago, to another living being. But today it's already [INDECIPHERABLE].

0:05:55

AUDIENCE: OK. Well, then …

RIMPOCHE: If it's not separated, you're eating the animal.

AUDIENCE: Are you happy there are butchers?

RIMPOCHE: Basically.

AUDIENCE: You are!

RIMPOCHE: I don't know.

AUDIENCE: You lost [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Probably. Must be.

AUDIENCE: Isn't that — how can that be?

RIMPOCHE: Must be. That's right. That is rejoice of butcher, but it's non-virtuous. Whole [INDECIPHERABLE]. … What you eat is dead fish's body. Somebody had already killed the fish, unfortunately. Especially when it comes out of the freezer, the whole fish will not come out of the freezer.

AUDIENCE: What about live clams and oysters?

RIMPOCHE: That's not good. That's not good. That's why I give the example of the Chinese restaurant with the lobsters. Not only Chinese, but Europeans too. All lobsters are living, you know, really, truly. That's not good. Unless it's frozen we don't recognize we eat lobsters. Unfortunately there's one restaurant here serves the lobster soup. I go there. They just don't kill for me. But I never eat the lobster [INDECIPHERABLE]. If you really has to cut it, I don't want it.

Anyway, we had a very interesting discussion here now.

AUDIENCE: [INDECIPHERABLE]

[LAUGHTER AND BACKGROUND CONVERSATION 0:07:30 - 0:07:58]

RIMPOCHE: Well, I think we should stop here for a minute and um [BACKGROUND CONVERSATION] … said she could help us, if you're interested to do [INAUDIBLE].

AUDIENCE: [AUDIO UNCLEAR] 0:08:37 - eurhythmic dance. It's movement of the arms that … [INDECIPHERABLE]

RIMPOCHE: OK. Good. And you can also do the drumming.

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION 0:08:46 - 0:10:40]

[TIBETAN CYMBALS AND DRUMS, CHANTING IN TIBETAN 0:10:40 - 0:23:46]

0:24:00

RIMPOCHE: If you are meditating on the sufferings of the samsara and then you particularly has to concentrate in the lower realms and that of the hell realms, hungry ghost, and animal realms. Each one of them you sort of have to really visualize. And if you read the Liberation in Palms, they will definitely tell you very simply, easy way. And then you close the book and visualize, almost visualize that each of — that myself is born the lower realm, in the hell realm, and having a huge body, probably three times, ten times the size of this building. Huge body. And have a tremendous amount of hot and cold sufferings. And then begin to raise question. Even you sort of go to the extent of really having those pains, can't help it, very difficulty, and all this. And like in this 35 Buddha Purifications, if you look in that,

[TIBETAN 0:25:15 - 0:26:10]

"So death came and I'm dying. I died. And I'm running around and suddenly those fearful messengers from the Lord of the Yama arrived, driving me, dragging me everywhere." That's interesting, um, interesting. I mean, it doesn't really give you that much but it gives you some kind of idea. There was a movie which I recently saw it. I forgot the name of the movie.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Oh yeah, it's called Ghost. Huh? Huh? It's ghost, right? Huh? Who is the actor in that?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: That's right. And this — and the other woman? Huh?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: The black woman.

AUDIENCE: Whoopi Goldberg.

RIMPOCHE: Whoopi Goldberg. She was acting as the medium. So yeah, that's right. So I saw that movie but in that movie, whatever it is. You know, in that movie, that guy who showed, who showed this — yeah. And when he died and manipulating that banker died you saw suddenly whooo, came and some kind of black shadows came and pulled him out. Right. And that is the picture here. That is the correct picture.

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION 0:27:40 - 0:27:49]

[TIBETAN 0:27:50 - 0:27:56]

"So when I die, I begin to see this fearful messengers of the Lord of the Yama. And I'm so afraid, I was running to the ten directions wherever I could get it. I could not catch anything. [TIBETAN 0:28:15] So now I bow to you the vajra, who holding the vajra" (is referring to the Buddha Vajradhara).

[TIBETAN 0:28:25 - 0:28:27]

So earlier, I sort of ignored the information given by you. Now I saw the fear by myself.

[TIBETAN 0:28:36 - 0:28:38]

I take refuge to you and clear all my fears. So, that is the word I need it. I had to go through all the way down. So that's anyway. So that's what it is. So when you die, actually it's not so simple as a lot of people try to make in this world today, particularly spiritualists will try to make it's so simple and nice and straightforward. And I just — we also just sit there and yes, yes, it is beauty. Death is beauty, no doubt, of its nature. But beauty does not necessarily mean a smooth, comfortable, enjoyable. There are smooth, comfortable, enjoyable too. In that particular movie, after some time, the light comes and takes him up gradually. And it also has the normal American message: we die, we don't want to go. We're hanging around still. All of them in there. Interesting movie I thought. So, anyway. So, did you see that movie Allen?

AUDIENCE: No, I did not see the movie.

RIMPOCHE: Mmm. Interesting. [LAUGHS]

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Yeah, yeah. I know.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: mmm. Anyway. Huh?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: OK.

0:30:10

So it also have that same similar message. And even you read in those — look on those Tibetan paintings, what they have the samsaric drawings. You know, where this these fearful thing and then go. It's there. They also have that black line drawn from one direction, the hands are tied and upside-down, pushing down. Another, they draw a white line and going up while dressed and looking up and bright way. All this are. You seen this. So that is — that sort of experience definitely the individual when they have — when they die, that experience goes. If you are not able cut through the ordinary death and when you go through the ordinary death. After death these two experience, either one of them will come.

So when this dark side (let's call it), dark side experience comes through, it's not that simple and not that easy. It is very fearful, helpless, difficult condition. It's there. It is better that we should work for ourself now while we are not on that level yet. There's — really important. There's nothing wrong for preparing. There's nothing wrong taking — even you don't believe it, doesn't matter. But benefit of doubt should be given and theres' nothing wrong. You lose nothing. Uh, money back guarantee. [LAUGHS] Lose nothing. Money back guarantee. [LAUGHS] Normally, that's what the advertising comes together. Right? Huh? Money back guarantee. Yeah. So, so you lose nothing if you're prepared. But if you gain, you gain. So preparing is nothing wrong. So you should definitely give yourself a benefit of doubt, at least. And sort of be prepared for it.

0:32:33

Some people will say, "let's not think about the worst thing. It'll come materialized." That is superstitious. By not thinking, if you are — if you're not thinking about death, if you're going to live forever — never. It's definitely not true. No matter how many things you [INAUDIBLE] … death will definitely come one day. And even if you think about it, meditate about it, and doesn't come immediately either. So, that doesn't really do that way. So give yourself a benefit to do something. So that you cannot do at that time when you don't have control in your hand. It is not. So taking refuge is the, the sort of emergency measure measurement. So the I care program is the first applicable. So you have to take refuge.

Refuge to — the buddhist will recommend you have to take refuge to buddha, dharma and sangha because buddha is a person who had been experienced whatever we're experiencing. And a person who have been able to free themselves, those buddhas. I'm referring to the buddha many male, female buddhas. They have freed themselves so they are experienced guide. So therefore, it is better to sort of seek their help. So that's why we seek help and we take refuge to buddha who is a guide. And that also the buddha who are fully enlightened ones are the — the Buddha Shakyamuni representing the fully enlightened ones, which is the causal refuge. And our future buddha, that is my, my buddha-nature within me, when it's fully developed, becomes buddha, that's my result buddha. My result buddha is the actual buddha will help me. The causal buddha, buddha who are representing, the historical buddha, can only give us the information and give support and try to help. And that's all they can do. But the result buddha is the really one who does. So take refuge to the causal buddha, the historical buddha who are representing the fully enlightened ones, and concentrate my own future buddha. So that is what we call it in Tibetan, it's [TIBETAN 0:35:36]. So the result buddha and causal buddha. Causal refuge and result refuge. So that is very, very important. That is the buddha. The guide.

0:35:50

Yes. Yes! It's right. Buddha is the guide only. He can guide you. And our result buddha is not developed. It is sort of premature state just now. It could be even a seed level or it's sort of waking up. But it is very much premature thing. So therefore, even, so therefore it might not be able to guide just now so getting the information is through the experience of fully enlightened beings. But the actual refuge, really, let me do this traditional buddhist way. So, so we're having this trouble, the chronic illnesses. The chronic illnesses of delusions. And as a result, we lose our liberation. We lose our joy. We probably getting into a very heavy suffering. So we need to cure that chronic illnesses so we need a good doctor. The doctor who can really be give a perfect diagnosis and give perfect antidote medication. So that's what we've been able to — need to go. Need to seek a doctor.

It's funny. In the West this are not there, but in Tibetan it may be superstitious but the doctors are also every different illnesses, in old Tibet, we go to different doctors. Not that doctor is specialized, but somehow your karmic link and particularly illness for particular thing so we sort of go to different doctors a lot. A lot for different illnesses, different doctor. Though it is all basically there is no allopathic at all, but still we go for different doctors because the karmic connection. Maybe it is room for both doctors and lamas to play. Whatever it is. You know, what the traditional system is, when you get sick, the first person you contact is not the doctor. You contact the rinpoche, whoever that is. He does the mo and tell you, go to so and this and this doctor and get the commission of course. [LAUGHS]

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: There's no commission because the doctor — in old Tibet, doctors are never charged. They never charge. If they give something, that's fine. They never charge. A lot of doctors are very poor and they don't have enough money to make medicine. You don't even pay for medicine. That's a funny thing. The wealthy family, they say, "please make this medicine. Whatever it costs, we will pay." And they may do it, but otherwise, whatever the doctor has, you know, whatever he thinks may help within his [INDECIPHERABLE], they give you. There's no — I mean this is funny, huh? It's supposed to be a buddhist country, supposed to be with great compassion and love-oriented. But that is a very, very neglected area. The kind doctors will really look after the sick patients like their own children and they give you — if the doctor's quite well-to-do and the patient is very poor, and they not only give the medicine, they give the food, and the right food, and right vitamins, sort of, you know, all minerals and whatever the doctor — I mean pay out of doctor's pocket. [LAUGHS] And doctor pays them and gives them all the time. That's what it is. So then you check with certain lamas. They do the check: OK, this doctor will be suitable for you for this illness and not for this one. And also, and also they do a lot of prayers and this and that.

0:40:02

So anyway, when you go to the doctor and doctor will diagnose. It's, "you're chronic illness is nothing but it's called negative karma." So then it's, "OK. What medication should I take?" They say, "take dharma." Dharma is the real medicine. Dharma is the real medicine. That's what it is. Why? And how? Because dharma. Then the question rises, what is dharma?

Dharma is the positivity that you gain by cutting the negativity through within you. If you cut your anger, you gain a positivity of cutting anger. And a small, short karma of one minute anger coming, if you cut it that, you gain positivity just by cutting that. That — these are the, these very positivity is the gain of the individual by cutting those delusions. And that is dharma. So that is the real medicine. That is directly helps. Directly you get it. That is the real medicine.

So all dharma is the spiritual development you gain by cutting negativities. Not by learning how to fly in the air, or swim in the water, or remain under the ground, but by cutting negativity, those spiritual gains are the real dharma of within individual. Fully developed within the buddha and etc. are the representing the bigger picture. But the real nectar for my illness is the real dharma how small, how weak, how subtle it might be. But whatever, big, small, whatever I have, that's mine. That's my nectar, that's my dharma, that's my cure. That's what it is. It's not only the cure of delusions, but also the result of the delusions too. So that is the real dharma and real managing.

0:42:21

The sangha is the community who give you the support, who give you mental, physical, emotional, material, ritual, meditation, whatever. All this. All needs are supporting. The supporting group is actually the sangha. So that is the — there's a bigger picture …

[NOTE: AUDIO IS FAINT BEGINNING 0:42:47]

… of the enlightened Arya sanghas, and also the group of monks, and so and forth, but all of them are sangha. And also in that [INAUDIBLE] really taking [INAUDIBLE]. I remember this. When I was a kid I did this once. And when I saw, went and saw this [TIBETAN 0:43:19], the former Regent, from whom I'm receiving the monk vows, after he retired. After he resigned as the Regent of Tibet, I think it's the early 50's, when he was sitting in his own retreat. And I went to the place called [TIBETAN 0:43:38] during the cold season. And on the way [INAUDIBLE] … and had an audience with [TIBETAN 0:43:48]. And there's a little paper in there wrapped in the scarf. And after offering the scarf and I kept on rubbing this. Little nervous and keep on rubbing. And all papers became just like this.

[AUDIO LOUDER BEGINNING 0:44:03]

And this is second time I remember. I don't know why I'm doing it. I'm not nervous and maybe just — I keep on doing that, you know. So that time I did once. [TIBETAN 0:44:17], I mean politically later people say a lot of funny things, but also great teacher, great kind, and all contemporary of Pabongkha and Khansar Rinpoche and all this. And it is also person from both Kyabje Ling Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche, His Holiness and everybody had taken teachings. That is that — it is really supposed to be, it is said that he is an actual living Yamantaka. The actual living Yamantaka, they say. But politically it is — everybody blames [INDECIPHERABLE], so fall of Tibet totally blamed on he and another earlier one. So anyway, so [INDECIPHERABLE]

And I remember he was telling me, asking — this is the same period where he was asking me about emptiness and this. What do you have to say about [INDECIPHERABLE]. And he mentioned to me, he said, "while you're thinking of emptiness and practicing emptiness, try to understand, I'll be able to help you during that period. Next time I probably can help you more. He was about to die. You know, really quite sick and old that time. And um, so I think a couple of months later he passed away. But he told me that. "I can help you [INDECIPHERABLE]."

So anyway, so I just reminded this. OK.

[LOUD FEEDBACK SOUND 0:46:03]

There you go!

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Oh. What happened? It went down. OK. Sorry about that. OK. So anyway, the actual dharma, the ultimate dharma is the actual understanding of emptiness. That is the real dharmakaya dharma. That what it is. Anyway,

[NO AUDIO 0:46:34 - 0:48:43]

… buddha, dharma and sangha. And um, then you take refuge. Taking refuge is not that difficult. I mean, it is actually rely on them. Rely on them totally for whatever. Whatever. So, whatever. You should make your mind, "if I have enjoyable period of time, great. That is due to my good karmic result and with help of buddha, dharma and sangha, fine. And if it's better for me to have a little suffering and problem, that also fine. It maybe should materialize that way." That is the actual spiritual practitioners do that way. Spiritual practictioners will not pray, "I may have good time. I may have enjoyable life. I may not have much illnesses. I may have this." That's not the way. "If it's better to be well, I may be well. If it's better to get sick, I may be sick. If it's better for me to die, I may die." [INDECIPHERABLE]

Particularly in the bodhisattva ways, it's always like that. That's the way how to. Take refuge to buddha, dharma and sangha; rely on them. And follow the advice. Particularly, in the mahayana, you have to have compassion on that. Not only I'm taking refuge to buddha, dharma and sangha, but in order to help all those beings who are also equally having a problem like what I have, so I seek refuge along with me or on behalf of everybody. On my behalf and on behalf of all sentient beings I would like to take refuge to buddha, dharma and sangha. Whatever you have picture in front of you, whether it is — I'm not, I don't mean the picture picture. Mental picture. Whether it is buddha or your spiritual master or all sorts of tree, I mean the refuge tree (not the tree tree), the refuge tree or whatever you have, you sort of strongly focus on that. If it's a single person, whether Buddha, Tsongkhapa, spiritual master, whoever, if a single person, then its body is the sangha, the speech is dharma, the mind is buddha. So the buddha, dharma and sangha together in one single person. Then you — I on my own behalf and on behalf of all beings, I take refuge to — namo buddha, namo buddhaya, namo dharmaya, namo sanghaya. Whatever you want to say with that, keep on focusing and concentrate and totally rely on. And that's the how it goes.

0:52:04

So up to here we covered common with medium level. Taking - no! Common with the lower level. I'm sorry. The taking refuge to buddha, dharma and sangha is the emergency solution to protect ourself falling into the lower realms. So, then they say you take refuge to them and then answer. They said follow the path. That's what it is. They say, "yeah, we will help you. But honor your natural law." That is karma. Observe karma carefully. So, exactly. So immediately, if you think, and taking refuge, and saying refuge, and you die, it is probably you will not born into the lower realms at all. So, that's that.

And then you go taking step beyond that is looking into the karma very carefully. Karma is definite, fast growing. One does not meet the result if you have not created. If you have created the cause, no matter whatever you — so, even if — no matter how long it may take, you're bound to meet. You will meet the result. So that's four characteristics of karma: definite, fast-growing, one doesn't meet the result if you have not created cause, if you have created the cause you're sort of bound to have the result no matter how much time it takes. Basically karma means cause and effect. You will know. But you should have to look in that sort of direct.

Karma is definite means, whatever the positive karma you do, you created, you do have a positive result. And negative karma will have negative result. You cannot have, you say, "well, I have done quite bad over here. Now let me do something good over here and square it up." Doesn't work that way. Doesn't work that way. The example given here during the traditional teachings, a normal teaching tradition, example is given here is if you have sweet fruit tree growing there, try to make that it's a little unsweetened by growing jalapeno peppers around and hoping it will balance it out. It doesn't. It does not. No matter how much you do, whatever you do, you put more water, more fertilizer, whatever you do, the jalapeno peppers will be hot, the sweet fruit will be sweet. It will not balance that way. Likewise, karma, whatever you have created, in that manner it will materialize. That means karma is definite.

0:55:22

Karma is fast-growing. Example here is when Buddha was going walking through, somebody, some woman came across and throw a handful of peas, pea, into the Buddha's begging bowl. And Buddha liked it and saying Buddha enjoyed that pea and said, "By the virtue of giving me this pea, you will become a buddha in the future." So the company going with her got a little upset and said, "Buddha, for a sake of handful of pea, don't be tell such a big lie. I can give you better than that." And Buddha said, "I'm not telling lie." And he said, "You don't know what karma how it works. Look at that tree over there under which now you can see five horsecarts been parked under the shade of that tree. Then the seed of that tree was this much. It has been grown that much. If the outside can grow that much, inside can definitely grow much more, much faster." So it doubles in 24-hours, anyway.

Positive as well as negative doubles every 24 hours. So that was the danger of the karma — not so much what you really created but it is the doubling business. It looks like 100% interest for every 24 hours. It's like that. Both positive and negative. So it is very dangerous. Even it is a small — the traditional Tibetan teachings, the example they give you is if you pick up lice out of your hair (it was Tibet, right?), so if you pick up lie …

AUDIENCE: [CORRECTS PRONUNCIATION]

RIMPOCHE: … a louse. OK. A louse. If you pick up a louse out of your hair and…

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Yeah, but if you can pick up one.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Pick up a louse and squeeze between your — between your two nails here, and that is a killing karma but not very big killing karma. It is small thing. I mean, it is killing karma. It is a sentient being. It has a life. You have taken a life, but it is not a big thing like killing a bigger animal or bigger human being or something. But when you don't purify it and doubling up, doubling up all the time, then sometimes it becomes even bigger than killing a human beings. That is the doubling is much more dangerous. More dangerous than that of actual creating karma. So, so, so that's why fast growing.

0:58:52

One doesn't meet karmic result which one has not created, but one does meet karmic result what you have created no matter how much time it may take. When the terms and conditions are right, it will materialize. If you can avoid terms and conditions been right, then that is possible. That's where the purifications comes in the picture, that's why where praise comes into picture. That's where all the miracles even have room because terms and conditions are not necessarily to meet at the same time.

What kind of result? When you say result is bound to get, is that one result for one non-virtuous or virtuous? No! Each one of these karmic you have almost four different results.

[TIBETAN 0:59:48 - 0:59:54]

0:59:57

There are four types of — four types of result. And out of four, the direct result if you kill someone you may lose life. The direct result is not bad, but the result which makes you continuously to do. So for example, one of the result is not — if you like killing or stealing. Like take for example stealing. If you're stealing you have — what is it? You stole somebody's thing and that is non-virtuous. You probably lose your wealth, something, something, out of you it goes that way. That is a direct result. But common case result, it call it, common cause result is worst thing. That is the continuation of samsara. The common cause result will build up your habit and habitual. So you have that habit, the habitual pattern which you like to steal all the time. Some of the people who are stealing even can't stop. Now of course in the West you call it it's illness. It's sickness, you say, right? You say this is sick, sickness. But actually it is habitual sickness. It is. That is the worst. That will make it in life it will continue one after another.

It's like killing. The killer will like to kill all the time. They enjoy doing it. And they may become bigger and get to the human beings but they like to. There's no reason why but they like it. It is crazy, you call it. We call it sick, crazy, but it is the common cause result.

1:01:50

So it builds the habit. And this habitual patterns they like to repeat one after the other. Even you know it it's not good, even you know it you should not do it. I mean, we always say that. Intellectually I know it but I can't do it. We always say that, right? Over here, but under here I can't do it. That's what we always say. That is the habitual thing settled. The common result is taking place. It is the worst. Right? If you kill somebody, you lost one's life. That's OK. It is squared up. It's better that way. But the common thing will constantly go and repeat. You will continuously go on doing the same thing. That's why the habitual pattern is really a very important, whether it's going to be negative or positive, effortlessly negative or positive, both way, is the habit. It is really the experience and habit that you build up.

So if you begin to watch from there, effortless will come one day. Effortlessly you can always doing the right thing and good thing and all this will come because you been mindful on your habit and behaviors and that's how it works.

Basically karma this much. Any questions? I mean, if I keep on talking karma there'll be tremendous. I mean, about we probably talk a couple of months on karma, that's true, but there is no point of really talking a lot.

Yes, sir. I did say.

1:03:37

AUDIENCE: Are we allowed to exterminate our apartments? [INAUDIBLE] … are we allowed to do that?

RIMPOCHE: Well, if you can't live with bedbugs, you have to do it.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Well, is there any way that we can live without creating any negative karma? No.

AUDIENCE: I guess the real question is, is it better to have someone else to come in and do that?

RIMPOCHE: Doesn't matter. Whether you order — whether you order the …

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION 1:04:11 - 1:04:15]

RIMPOCHE: To tell you the truth, better you do it yourself. At least you save another person's non-virtuous karma. I mean, but if you can't do it, you have somebody else do it. But you know, we cannot live without creating a negativity. I mean, people are very aware of it and they're very cautious. That's great. But you cannot live in this world today without creating a non-virtuous karma. If you eat meat, you have non-virtuous karma. If you don't eat meat, you have non-virtuous karma. If you eat vegetables, you have non-virtuous karma there too. So you can't live without eating, you'll die. That also have non-virtuous karma on it. [LAUGHTER] So that's that. But …

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: But the question then rises, what to do? You have to balance. You have to know how to balance. You can — I know what you mean.

AUDIENCE: No I mean it's better than if I see an ant and swat with my foot. If I put the poison down, is that better than killing the bugs directly? That was my real question.

RIMPOCHE: How long you have to sit there and kill?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Keep on. It'll be like cats waiting for rat to come out. [LAUGHTER] You can't do that. It's not possible. Waiting for the ants to come and whack! [LAUGHS]

AUDIENCE: I mean, which is less — more, or I mean less non-virtuous. If I put the poison down that's better than killing them?

RIMPOCHE: I don't think that's the issue. I don't think that is the question. I don't think that's the issue. The issue here is how to handle. It's not the question. There is no question you have to wait there 24 hours watching whether the ants coming or not. And every time you sits there, top, top, top, top, top. Or you maybe keep on stepping for 24 hours. So who knows? That's not the way to handle. But the question is, you're bound to have non-virtuous anyway. So either way. So how to handle that. That is the question, rather than — it is impossible to live in today's world. Even those, those primitive period thousand years ago, even then it's not possible to live totally virtuous lives. Those days. If those days not possbile, today is certainly not possible. But way you have to do is you do commit non-virtuous, but you have to know how to purify them. So how to purify them and how to do it better way. That's the issue. That is the question. That's the point.

1:07:15

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: It will come. It will come later. R___ I see your hand up.

AUDIENCE: I have a question about karma. In Christianity they have this idea of grace, in that there's such a thing as a holy spirit's grace that one can be freed of their non-virtue and their sins by grace. And there's even a big song on Amazing Grace where this guy who wrote this song was actually hundreds and hundreds of slaves kept on a ship and he wrote this song because he finally realized his errors and sins and no-virtues. I'm wondering, in Tibetan buddhism is emptiness like a grace in a sense? Is there something equatable to grace? This comes up a lot with friends that I talk to who aren't buddhists and they wonder cause there's one teaching that says karma is absolute and there's no way to get out of your karma, that causes results and reaction. Even Newton made a law, the second, this law that has this kind of idea of action result. Is there such a thing as grace? Is there such a thing in Tibetan buddhism in the same sense as?

RIMPOCHE: I don't know.

AUDIENCE: If one has — if one really has a true understanding of emptiness, can one fall back from emptiness back into relative action/reaction? [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: What do you mean?

AUDIENCE: If I understand correctly certain teachings on emptiness where one can actually be free of some karma, some crazy wisdom Milarepa … Does anybody else understand what I'm saying?

AUDIENCE: Yeah.

AUDIENCE: Can you help me say this?

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION INDECIPHERABLE 1:09:16 - 1:09:43]

AUDIENCE: … blessing. I mean, I think that's what's talked about as the blessing of the lineage, the guru's blessing. I mean, that's what — I think that's the comparable mind-to-mind, lineage-to-mind, you know, pure, I mean the intervention like when you pray to the three jewels, when you purify. Then some of your — you are, you're purifying. You're also creating different causes and conditions so that certain things won't ripen, other things will ripen. That prayer and that intervention through the help of the enlightened ones, through your own lineage masters, would be experienced as a kind of grace to the individual.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, but not a certain result in the sense that you don't actually effectively release yourself.

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION INDECIPHERABLE 1:10:24 - 1:10:29]

AUDIENCE: But you have to create those causes and conditions. But does Christianity have that notion …

AUDIENCE: It usually comes through prayer.

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION INDECIPHERABLE 1:10:33 - 1:10:47]

AUDIENCE: There's the old tradition that a thousand years of bad karma can be wiped out with one, one compassionate thought.

AUDIENCE: Right.

AUDIENCE: Of your own. [INAUDIBLE]

[LAUGHTER]

1:11:16

AUDIENCE: Then again, within the vajrayana practice, that would still be considered the blessing of the lineage. Your own compassion. Because of the way in which your own thoughts and the mind, your mind, the mind of the master, the yidam, they're all related. So that sense. There would still be that sense.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

AUDIENCE: It's the biggest question …

AUDIENCE: No. I don't think ultimately everything.

AUDIENCE: Does the experience of emptiness bring us to a karma though?

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION INDECIPHERABLE]

1:11:58

RIMPOCHE: Emptiness is the antidote of a karma — best purification. But that, I don't know whether the emptiness alone can free the individual out of karma. To me, the buddha is not free of karma. Buddha always have constant positive karma. He may be free of negative karma, but I don't think he's free of karma. And uh, so the negativities are definitely purified.

[TIBETAN 1:12:40 - 1:12:45]

When you obtain the state of arya, which is seeing the emptiness, seeing the path; or mahayana path if you obtain the first bhumi. Out of five paths, when you see the seeing path, then you become special person. What is special about it? It doesn't mean you have bigger nose or, or whatever. You know. [LAUGHS] It doesn't mean that. But it means [LAUGHS] — it means special. Special means,

[TIBETAN 1:13:27 - 1:13:30]

So they have been freed from the suffering of illnesses, aging, death.

[TIBETAN 1:13:41 - 1:13:44]

So they have not reborn by the power of negative karma and delusion. So they are free there. That is — that is the free I know. That's a free. And then you're freed almost thereafter because you're bound to not create that negativity anymore. You may created little weak negative here and there. Imprint of the delusions will still continue until you become an enlightened being. Imprint of the delusions will still continue, but it will automatically purified by it. Automatically by yourself with your habitual patterns you will automatically purified. So I think that is the free business I know.

1:14:57

J___

AUDIENCE: Can we get back to that question that you had insects in your apartment? [LAUGHTER] [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Insects. OK.

AUDIENCE: What was the correct way to deal with that?

RIMPOCHE: What I will do probably, I'll probably have insecticide (what do you call it, insecticide or what?) Insecticide as early as possible. As early as possible. Then that's why the killing will be much less and it's become preventive measure and it's always better. But even though you're bound to have some problems there and you purify it.

AUDIENCE: What more would you do?

RIMPOCHE: I get the — what is the company called? ONC or whatever it is.

AUDIENCE: Orkin.

AUDIENCE: No, I mean … [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Call Orkin.

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION 1:15:50 - 1:16:06]

RIMPOCHE: Purification is the normal purification what we do. That is by application of four powers, which you always know. You know it already. Application of four powers. That is the purification you know. That's what you do. And antidote is recommended. Yeah. Direct encounter with emptiness is the best, then the mantras, and all sorts of things. I mean, antidote. And it is heavier it should be heavier non-virtues should have much heavier antidote and lighter one can have lighter antidote. And application of the four powers is the, is the only way we know. That's answer your question?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: Thank you. M____?

1:17:05

AUDIENCE: Yes. Same question about four types of result karma. And the only I understand [INDECIPHERABLE] … of negative karma.

RIMPOCHE: Yeah. The direct result, by killing you lose life, or something like that. That is the direct result. And habitual result. And then there's a common result. You commonly experience the difficulties or joy by a number of people together. And, um ….

[PAUSE 1:17:42 - 1:17:49]

… I don't remember the fourth one anyway. So, so these are the — that is how they work. I don't remember the third — fourth one.

Yes, C___! Yeah.

AUDIENCE: You talk about [INDECIPHERABLE] and I was wondering, OK, if one of us died because we have that link with you, if thinking about you very, very strongly, the only thing because we don't know, whatever, you know, it seems that we have to have a lot of [INDECIPHERABLE] or whatever and I don't have that. If thinking about you in the morning in my mind would be helpful …

RIMPOCHE: It depends. Depends how you hold me. [LAUGHTER] I'm sorry! [LAUGHS] Sounds funny. [LAUGHTER] What? I mean, I don't mean anything. [LAUGHTER] I'm sorry. Well, if you look as a spiritual master representing enlightened beings and probably it have its affect in that manner. And if you look as just a common friend, it has its own result, affect, and that's what I mean. [LAUGHS] OK. So, I think that's what really is. Yeah. Yes J___.

1:19:53

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] … constantly operating out of a good karma rather than free of karma? Is that what you said? Then karma — is that so?

RIMPOCHE: Yes, yes. I said that.

AUDIENCE: Then is karma is not really operating under the samsara laws exactly. It's out.

RIMPOCHE: No. Karma definitely operate beyond samsara, for sure. Tsongkhapa make very, very objections to some earlier quite well-known Tibetan teachers. And some of them said, "well, I have encountered with emptiness. I'm free of karma so I can sit on the Prajnaparamita text. Or I can sit on the Buddha's image." And some people have done that and some people criticized so badly with them. So, so I don't think it is free at all.

AUDIENCE: so he operates from the pure lands and everywhere?

RIMPOCHE: Yeah! Every — every positive experience that we have is the result of the positive karma and every negative experience we have is the result of negative karma.

AUDIENCE: Higher beings also.

RIMPOCHE: Included everybody. Tom, Dick and Harry, all of them.

AUDIENCE: It seems like if karma isn't that we, um, the natural law within relative existence, then within relative experience that karma is the functioning — functions throughout relative experience. That say that emptiness would eradicate that. Say that emptiness doesn't depend on relative existence. I mean, I don't see how …

RIMPOCHE: Emptiness does — I did not say that emptiness eradicates …

AUDIENCE: I'm saying you're not saying that.

RIMPOCHE: … karma …

AUDIENCE: No!

RIMPOCHE: But I said emptiness — understanding of emptiness eradicates a lot of negative karma.

AUDIENCE: I know that. But I'm trying to understand how there could be a perspective that emptiness would eliminate karma when emptiness and relative existence exists simultaneously at the enlightened level and karma is the way in which relative existence functions.

RIMPOCHE: emptiness…

AUDIENCE: So I just can't see how…

RIMPOCHE: … emptiness. Emptiness, emptiness eradicate the negative karma of the individual being. At the individual level.

AUDIENCE: I don't know if you're understanding my question.

RIMPOCHE: I heard you. When you say at the enlightened level you said the negative and positive as well as the emptiness and relative functions together.

AUDIENCE: No, I didn't say that the negative and positive …

RIMPOCHE: Yeah, it does. At the enlightened level.

AUDIENCE: That wasn't what I was saying. I don't …

RIMPOCHE: No, but even you don't say it, but it functions that way.

AUDIENCE: Yeah. I understand. I just, I just — I don't understand the other way of thinking. I don't understand how, based on what one takes a stand that at an enlightened level karma doesn't function.

RIMPOCHE: I didn't say that.

AUDIENCE: She's agreeing with you.

1:23:27

AUDIENCE: You said that there was this other philosophical viewpoint and I'm not understanding how, out of what that arises.

RIMPOCHE: I'm not even understanding what you're talking about it.

AUDIENCE: If somebody, if some guy sits on a text and says he beyond karma because …

AUDIENCE: … when he's realized emptiness.

AUDIENCE: Just because he's realized emptiness.

AUDIENCE: You know, if he's realized emptiness, in actuality he would have to realize emptiness and relativity …

RIMPOCHE: He might not have realized emptiness.

AUDIENCE: Right. So how come …

RIMPOCHE: He claimed. I said the persons who claims to have understand emptiness, but probably not because the more you understand emptiness, you have more respect in the relativity. You will not sit on the Prajnaparamita.

AUDIENCE: That's what I understand but I …

RIMPOCHE: What do you mean?

AUDIENCE: Well, you just said there's this whole other position and I didn't understand …

RIMPOCHE: Yeah, yeah, the guy claims. I should have said "claims" to have. OK. That's the problem. OK. The person who claims. Yes A___.

1:24:29

AUDIENCE: I have heard some teaching that there are realized beings whose actions don't create any karma. Is there — is there not some …

RIMPOCHE: I don't know, but I don't go for that.

AUDIENCE: That is a school of thought.

RIMPOCHE: Probably. Maybe.

AUDIENCE: I've heard of that. Yeah.

RIMPOCHE: Maybe. Yeah, maybe. But you know, a lot of people will associate, the moment you say karma it will associate with negative karma and when you're free of negative karma you just simply say you're free of karma. But, technically it's not. There's positive karmas are also karma. And the buddhas, the result like the enjoyment body, pure land, and all, everything is a result of their positive karma. So, it is very difficult to say it is free of karma. Then all the red carpets should be pulled out of their feet. If they're free of karma, it also goes together. All the carpets pull out of their feet too. It is difficult.

1:25:40

AUDIENCE: When one transcends the karma, is there anything beyond karma? And does senility …

RIMPOCHE: I think it is the under — people are understanding the negative karma is equals to karma and that's why they're saying it.

AUDIENCE: [INDECIPHERABLE] … beyond karma. Is there any state, any realm, any — nothing is beyond karma.

RIMPOCHE: I don't think so.

AUDIENCE: OK. Then is …

RIMPOCHE: Even, even the enlightened, gone beyond, is not gone beyond karma. Tathagatas have gone beyond the …

AUDIENCE: The negative karma.

RIMPOCHE: No. Gone beyond the samsaric existence and so and forth.

AUDIENCE: Karma is beyond samsaric existence anyway.

RIMPOCHE: Yes, yes.

AUDIENCE: Does senility exist for a person who has enlightenment as long as there is a physical body? Is it possible to become senile if they're real old, say 90 or 100 years old? And does senility exist for those?

RIMPOCHE: Possible.

AUDIENCE: Is it possible?

RIMPOCHE: Possible. Possible. But whether the person is really senile or they have to go according to the act of drama together.

AUDIENCE: Partial senility then. Not full. There is some partial.

RIMPOCHE: Yeah. It is possible. You know, they are supposed to — this is a drama for them. That every existence coming as a human being, acting according to that, walking through this. It is drama. They try to lead people through the drama. So that's why if the scriptwriter has put the senile over there, you have to go through that. If the scriptwriter has done that, it goes through that way. That's what it is.

[AUDIO LOST 1:27:32 - 1:27:37]

[LAUGHTER]

RIMPOCHE: What did he say?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

RIMPOCHE: I don't know.

[NO AUDIO 1:27:50 - 1:27:57]

RIMPOCHE: This old-timer disease, what you call it, right? Old-timer …

AUDIENCE: Alzheimer's.

RIMPOCHE: Alzheimer's disease, you go like that.

AUDIENCE: No.

RIMPOCHE: What is that?

AUDIENCE: Parkinsons.

RIMPOCHE: OK. And they shake the body as well as the …

AUDIENCE: [INDECIPHERABLE]

RIMPOCHE: Yeah, I know that. But…

AUDIENCE: Alzheimer's is just forgetting everything.

[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION 1:28:27 - 1:28:35]

RIMPOCHE: We have one of the great teachers who passed away quite recently called Rato Rinpoche, Gyuto Rato Rinpoche. Rato Rinpoche had that same problem, um, physically going and doesn't remembering this and that. But he didn't go completely blind but even you ask some very important question out of practice of (must be J___), out of practice of some Vajrayogini and all of a suddenly he says, "this is this; this is that." And then goes on off that sort of thing. So it happens that way. OK? May completely not senile or crazy, but. Oh. Hello.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] … is supposed to be very senile but he continues painting very perfectly, but otherwise has to be taken care of. With Alzheimer's. They say. His painting is perfect and he seems to remember what to do there, but everything else is like a baby.

AUDIENCE: It seems like transcendent karma is kind of like when you're a really good piano player, or musician, or painter, whatever it may be, that one just dances with effortless joy and love and compassion. And you're still involved in karma, it's just that you're not entangled. You're not stuck in negative karma. And I think that maybe that is more the answer.

1:30:30

RIMPOCHE: OK. I think we should stop here tonight and those of you who are practicing the lam rim, so today's subject, whatever we have covered, you should meditate twice tonight, briefly, and twice in the morning tomorrow [INAUDIBLE].

[NO AUDIO 1:30:56 - TO END 1:35:34]