Archive Result

Sound file:19990830GRSROF04

Speaker:Gelek Rimpoche

Location: Camp Copneconic,Fenton,MI

Topic:Odyssey To Freedom

Transcriber: Jayapushpa

Date: 19th September, 2022

(Prayers..Mig tse ma…)0:04:17.2 The questions.Alright, so who is going to read it? The mic ..give it to Chris. Chris, you have to step forward because then… (*some sounds*) Alright …give it to Marion then. (Audience: Okay) (Passing mic ..) (Audience: Why not we start with some questions about purifications. So the first one is ‘we all think we have good motivation for our actions. But how can we really know for sure if our motivation is good?’) Very simple, if you have a personal agenda, then you sure the motivation is not simple. Even though, give you one example, even though you think ‘Oh for the benefit of people I like to do that’. Suddenly pop up in your mind ‘Whatever I do this, of course I am doing for the benefit of all people. However I get credit , I get this, I get that.’So then it is faulty. So there should not be any personal agenda at all. Period. If that happens you really sure it is pure motivation. Even though some of them maybe little harsh but even though it may be harsh, if you don’t have any personal agenda, then it is pure motivation you know. As soon as ‘I am going to get that, even if it is good positive karmic result, even then it is faulty. I am glad that question because it is very easy to talk in group that way. Individually you have to say ‘it is great and wonderful and maybe you should you should motivate..you should little more…sort of what you called ..mo..(Audience: modify) Modify here little bit this and that. So when you are hearing that from me, you knew it, it is a….there’s a problem, okay? So that’s what it is. (Audience: Okay, the next question is, ‘You said bodhimind and emptiness are the best means of purification. But it takes lots of merits to realize these.So what does one do for purification who has just started and may not have very much merit?’) How do you know you don’t have very much merit?If you don’t have good merit, you won’t be here.You won’t be studying at all. Period. Just by touching with the Dharma and that also not the Dharma with quality, (*interruption) …oh, what are we talking here? What is the question? ( Audience : The question…) Ya, if you don’t have the merit you won’t be here touching with the Dharma, number 1. And that also such a wonderful dharma that you ..sort of thinking, analyzing, dealing with the mind, rather than simply worshiping and saying prayers and doing mantras alone. And you know really thinking and dealing with the life and making a difference in your life, (*Interruption)…anyway, dealing with the life and all these, clearly indicates you have good merit, without which yuou won’t be here. That’s number 1. Number 2, even though you don’t have bodhimind, even you don’t have emptiness, but there’s two things. Realizing bodhimind, and gaining development on this, and gaining experience and copy catting…actually really copy catting, that is, ‘for the benefit of all sentient beings I would like to do his and that’ It is a copy cat. And that itself will substitute for the time being. Even though you don’t have any idea of emptiness, I mean most of us don’t have idea. However just simply, again substituting by saying, ‘there is nothing inherent existence’. Even impermanence is reading as emptiness. That will even substitute. So there is a lot of substitutions are there. So that’s why it is not that difficult. To be ..to have true bodhimind, and to have true emptiness understanding, it’s takes hell of time, energy, efforts, luck, fortune, everything. But to be ab;e to substitute that, and somehow it works along with that. Remember when you do initiations, normally you can do any initiations without knowing about emptiness. And there we substitute that by simply saying, ’there is no inherent existence’ or even to the ;point, which is not great,…but to the point, ‘sky like empty’. and all of those is not good emptiness at all but they will substitute, serve the purpose for the time being. So that’s why the tradition itself at the beginning, said, ‘For the benefit of all beings I would like to,obtain the state of buddhahood, therefore I like to do this and that’. 0:11:43.4 It is substituting , actually making a copy cat. And so, substitute and that will do for the time being. I don’t want to take too long , so there’s so many here. (

Audience: The next question really has to do with Allen’s Ginsberg 4 ‘Rs.’And they are listed here as ‘Recognize, Non repeatable, Regret and Redirecting’. ) That’s right. (Audience: And so the question is where is the base. Which one of those is referring to the base?) Recognition. (Audience: And the question goes on, ‘Where does the base fit in and what is the relationship between the base and the 4 ‘Rs’? ) Recognition itself is the base and recognition not only it has recognized but the period where you are doing your practice…while you are taking refuge, while you are working from the influence of the bodhimind. And that was period where you are coming in and therefore base, what we called ‘base’ is already established within that. (Audience: The next question…) Did I answer that question , whoever coming from? (Audience: I don’t understand that answer) What did you not understand by that answer? What did you don’t understand ? (Audience: Recognition is the base ..) Out of which question….did you understand the question? (Audience: How is recognition is the base?) No, no, it didn’t say that. The question say that how does this 4 Rs …where does the base fall in, what is relationship with that? That is the answer. (Audience: The next question is , if you purify and action will you still experience the karma or any karma of that action) If it is really purified, you will not experience the consequences of that negative karma.That is the reason why the purification is. (Audience: Next question is I think you were talking about depression, at the beginning of your talk and the question is ‘Do you have any ideas of treatment for people who are clinically depressed?) Clinical treatment. (Laughters) What’s wrong with it, you know. You know there are lots of treatments out of chemicals too. You cannot deny that. (Audience: Okay, a practical question. What do we do about pets getting on our altar eating or disturbing our offerings?) (Laughters) Provide more offerings! (Laughters) But you know, leftovers, let’s say if offerings was left there, your cat went up there and ate. You have to empty it and clean it and put new one. Because you can’t leave there the cat leftover, number 1. Number 2, some people may say the cat ate that and put a little extra on . That neither works. You really have to clear, otherwise it becomes insult to the enlightened beings, really true. Although you didn’t eat it the cat did it but you are responsible to making the offerings, not the cat. So really true, it happens. It happens not only here , it happened in old Tibet, you know. All these little mice and all over the place. And sometimes tibetans are so strange, they called ‘Oh, these are…you know this little lice that people get…. So these little mice they called it ‘Oh these little lice of Drolma, the Tara, ..the Tara lice because they go all over and eat everything. So they don’t bother them . They said…people do that. People do that and so ..Okay, I am not going to tell story, that’s about it. (audience: There are a number of questions here that really deals with the lineage and speaking about other aspects of it, rimpoches but some of them maybe answer later) Ah,ha. (Audience: First is a question which could be a kind of request, “is there a translation of the lineage prayer?’) Interesting, if you look in the lineage prayer, it simply says the names of the individual in the poetry form and so..sort of “I pray to you’. That’s really what it is. 0:17:16.9

So even you go to translator, the translator can really have to say, ‘Oh.so and so I pray to you. Oh so and so ..the names will not be translated. If they do, doesn’t make any sense.For example, my name would be ‘Ngawang’ and somebody has to translate that as ‘One who has power over speech’. And then, ‘Gelek’, ‘One who with great auspicious’. So, you know, ‘Oh, I pray to you one who has power over speech and great auspicious’. What does that sound to you? (Laugh) Nothing. So, the translations of names doesn’t work. And beside that it would simply supplication sort of thing, you know. (Audience: There are a couple of questions relate to Vajrayana really and Vajrasttva practice and sadhana practice. So, there is one and ‘Do we need initiations before chanting Vajrasattva mantra for purification practice and also can we pick up either mantras or sadhanas from books without initiations or transmission) The true advice will be ‘No’. Truly people shouldn’t say any mantras without any initiations. That’s a true fact. However everybody does everything. For example like, Om mani padme hung, people try to teach in old Tibet …people try to teach Om mani padme hung the moment the baby started to say ‘ma ma ma ma’, they say ‘mani padme’..that way they go. So truly speaking one should not touch any mantra without any authorization. That is initiation. That is the true way of doing it. However everybody does everything anyway. So I don’t know what to say. And people picking up the mantras and things like out of he book and doing is dangerous, very dangerous. Some are…particularly now it’s little bit better. The earlier books, if you really look into the earlier books, people have no…especially in English, people have no idea what they are talking about. They bring all kinds of mantras in ‘harang harang kling kling soha’, all that type of things , you see all of them everywhere. And number of people, even respectable people will do that ‘heling heling harang harang business. So, really doesn’t make much sense. It is advisable truly don’t do something you don’t know what you are doing. That’s really true fact. Don’t do something you don’t know what you are doing. Okay? It is funny I remember in Washington very recently about couple of months ago, when His Holiness was in Washington, (Audience: *unclear) Huh, that medical conference. Was it last year? (Audiences: November) Ya, ya , last year November. The same question came up when Lati Rinpoche he was giving teaching. And he said, ‘Please don’t say mantras ,please don’t…’ everything don’t , don’t don’t don’t..all the time, he gave answer. Next time I was speaker and I sort of have to say, that question came up and he said ‘Don’t’ Everything ‘should I do this; should I do that ‘ He keep on saying ‘Better not to, better not to, better not to’ . ‘Should I say mantra?’’ Oh, better not to’. And that he answered, ‘Better not to”.And should I do this?’ ‘Oh, better not to’.’should I say Vajrasattva recitation?’ He said, “No no no ,please don’t” and all these. It is a little strange at that time. But he is really thinking for the benefit of that individual. Because if you do unauthorized just simply read somewhere or some lama will tell you ‘say Vajrasattva recitation’. Have no idea ,have no idea. Either the lama who tells you the person to say Vajrasattva recitation has no idea what the knowledge or understanding of that individual has of Vajrasattva. Nor that individual knows what the individual’s asking. So, all of those are very very funny things happening actually. Truly speaking I don’t think you committed any crime in there in the Vajrayana rules, however you are doing lot of unauthorized things. People do very much. Poor Lati Rinpoche everything is ‘Please don’t do, please don’t do’.I mean the ans…the questions and all the answers, ‘Please don’t, it is better not; better not to’.’ Should I say mantra?’ “Oh,better not” Everything is ‘better not’; the whole night is ‘better not, better not, better not, better not’. The answer whole night is ‘better not’.0:23:12.9

So that’s the reason for that. So, that’s what it is. (Audience: So, the next question follows from that. What does one need to enter the Vajrayana. How do you prepare? What are the requirements and what are the commitments in Vajrayana?) Preliminary or rather ngondro, or the preliminary…Vajrayana is built on true solid foundation. That is foundation of Love and Compassion and foundation of Wisdom, without which if you build the Vajrayana, it will be ice castle. When summer comes round, ice will melt, the castle will collapse. Not only simply it will be ice castle, but simultaneously instead of creating a positive karma, you are creating negative karma. And so therefore to enter in Vajrayana, at least what you really need is the Three Principles of the path within your personality, that number 1. You are seeking freedom from negative emotions. Freedom, normally we called it ‘freedom from samsara’ but it is bottomline seeking freedom from negative emotions. 2, you have the development of the bodhimind. Bodhimind, second principle. 3, Wisdom. That is necessary. Even you don’t have it totally, at least some kind of understanding. And some kind of overviewing of it. That is really necessary. That’s why we will not let anybody into Vajrayana initiations unless you have either Lam Rim teachings or complete Odyssey to Freedom or at least Three Principles Paths of teachings , you attended. We will not let people enter in Vajrayana initiations. That is the reason why. The real permission to enter…real introduction to Vajrayana is full fledged initiations. That is basically four initiations, namely vase initiation, secret initiation, wisdom initiation, and word initiations. These are the four initiations. 0:26:42.5

Vase initiation is labelled. Under that label, what you have? Is, introduction to the mandala , entering the person in the mandala, then initiating within the five buddha families, and most important of all, is the water initiation. (Rimpoche quotes in tibetan). (Rimpoche conversing in tibetan) Really it is actually purifying the individual from the ordinary perception and conceptualization.That is the base (Rimpoche asking an audience: Where is your piece of paper that you have? Where is it? ) (Audience: *unclear) Ah? (Audience: *unclear) At the office,okay. Kathy has a little paper which says, explains all those. So anyway, the water initiation really is called water initiation,…the vase means what you put in the vase is holy water. What holy water will do? Baptized (Laughter) Very similar idea. Out the holy waters is purifying washing the individuals ordinary perception and conceptualization. That is initiation number 1, in addition to introduction to the mandala and five buddha families. (Rimpoche quotes in tibetan and also in conversation in tibetan with audience*) So, anyway the second initiation is the secret initiation. The secret initiation transforms the sound and the air and the energy into the mantra.That is the essence of the secret initiation, by tasting nectar. (Rimpoche quotes in tibetan) The third initiation is bringing joy and bliss within the mind. The fourth word initiation, the word is actually introduction to the union, enlightened level. (Rimpoche quotes in tibetan….sung juk..) So the fourth initiation, the word initiation really introduce you to the union, the ultimate union of method wisdom, or absolute relative, or male female, or wisdom compassion. So all of these union are properly introduced. Not only introduced the word should clear your doubts and (Rimpoche recites in tibetan) then you become the ultimate goal is achieved. These are really basically four initiations built in within one set of ritual based on one yidam, based on one mandala. So that’s what really requirement of entering into Vajrayana. However do we really clear the doubts on the union, do we really get the …do we really get great bliss, do we purified ordinary perception and conceptualization, and all of them? It is probably not. However, we are following that direction within the properly arranged certain mandala with appropriate person, to be entering by authorized or correct masters. When you have that somehow it works out okay. So, again it is like copy catting but that’s how you enter into Vajrayana. Is that answer the question? (Audience: Yes, there is one more part asking about the commitments of Vajrayana) Oh, (Rimpoche quotes in tibetan ) The commitment is not the sadhana what you say or the mantra what you do , that what we called ‘commitment’. We labelled them because since then we are going to do the practise. So we labelled them as commitment. That’s not the real commitment. The real commitment is the vows we have taken and that period int eh presence of the Lama and the yidam . (Rimpoche quotes in tibetan;…de che lama…..ngodrup…) Really meaning that commitment the vows that we have taken in the presence of the Lama, and yidam and the mandala. It is the real base on which I can get the siddhi or the accomplishments, so may I protect this like my life. So, that is the real commitment, no it the sadhana, not the mantra; is not the real commitment. Why we have that as commitment? Because …why we took the initiation? We took the initiation, we took teaching to do practise. So if you don’t do practise what is the use of the initiation? So therefore the earlier teachers have attached that , along with your real commitment att he vows. So protecting the vows, that was the ( * interruption) So that’s the real commitment in Vajrayana. 0:35:51.3

Another thing is Vajrayana commitment is also normally, something you can cancel it afterwards. It is not. Before you take that you have to be careful. If you are not careful you took a lot of commitments, and after a little while you don’t know what to do with it, and then it is unnecessarily spiritual trouble. Unnecessarily spiritual trouble than benefit. That;s why Lati Rinpoche keeps on everything ‘better not’; everything is better not; everything is better not. One of them said,”Should I take…” .One of the questions , “Should I take Medicine Buddha initiation?” He said, “ Better not”. That’s about 700, 800 people. Somebody’s written question, ‘Should I take Medicine Buddha initiation?” he said, “Please don’t” (Rimpoche gestures) with two hands. (Laughter) ‘Please don’t” and he was giving Medicine Buddha talk that night. And said, “Please don’t take initiation’. I am sure some people are there that day. You are there (Audience: *affirms) You are there, okay. Keep om saying ‘No’ remember? Everything is ‘No, no, no,please don’t do it, please don’t take it.’, you know. Nobody even know who the question is from. ‘should we take Medicine Buddha….” “Please don’t”That’s right. That’s what it is, you know. Because if you really don’t know what you are doing, create lot of trouble. It is very great like when His Holiness gives Kalacakra, we take. It is wonderful But remember it is all these commitments attached along with that. If you don’t know what’s going on but the commitments is there, because you must have repeated something, “ I do this, I do that’. That’s what it is. (Audience: There are a couple of questions Rimpoche about the origins of Gelugpa tradition and also the transitions of deities from other traditions of former traditions …)What does that mean? (Audience: The deities that…) Why don’t you read it out? (Audience: Can Rimpoche explain the origins of the Gelugpa tradition and what about the transition from deities of former traditions to this buddhist tradition?) To me Gelugpa tradition is nothing new; nothing new. I think you can answer these two questions together. Tsongkhapa did not invented a new Buddha Dharma there. What Tsongkhapa really did is the traditional Buddha’s teaching that developed in India, the pure Buddha’s teachings, he emphasized that. And so…it has been …the reason why Gelugpa came different from others is because Tsongkhapa demystify tremendously the mystical point which is sort of magical , mystical using Buddhism as some kind of power struggle or is control over individual.’s and of that mystical part. Not that mystical part of individual development but the mystical part of power competition …controlling or consciousness transferring or that type of …All these you know additional things added up along with that , I think he clarified so much and also emphasized individual’s grounding themselves into perfect practise like Four Noble Truth, bodhimind, emptiness and then building up Vajrayana on top of it. I don’t want to say it but today , even today,within United States, if you look around, there are certain teaching they will tell you this is very secret, and wonderful fruit not the causal but the fruital , and this and that and instant enlightenment, almost , they give you. However when you enter in that, they will take round and make you round three times and bring you somehow from the ground zero level up. So that’s why they are good. They are good, they are not bad. They are good. Because they bring you down to the ground zero level then bring you up even though it sweated(*?) up there like this fruital, not the causal, this is the result; here it is. But however when you get in there and you circled round three times and get you to ground zero level, and bring it up. And so, really truly speaking, the Gelugpa is nothing new. Like Tsongkhapa himself said Lam Rim., “I am not the author of Lam Rim, it isbased on Atisha’s work. Therefore Atisha is the author. Atisha based on the experience of the Buddha therefore Buddha Himself is the author” Just like that, it is nothing new, it is old, and continuing. And where does the Gelugpa’s got teaching lineage from? Kargupas, Nyingmapas and Sakyapas. It is nothing that is anti Kargupas, anti Nyingmapas, anti Sakyapas. It is from there. However Tsongkhapa sort of really within that demystify everything and it revolutionized and really brought to the ground zero level.that’s why it’s been extremely helpful to the individuals. And that’s why they say the Gelugpas are the largest followers in Tibet.According to the Chinese figure, it is 92% of the total tibetan population, follows the Gelugpa tradition. That’s the Chinese figure, not tibetan figure. So, 92 you left 8% between Gonpos, Nyingmapas, Kargupas and Sakyapas… all of those. And that not because ….that maybe because Dalai Lama came to power 1642, that may have something to do. But mostly important thing what really happened, Tsongkhapa’s disciples are, when he goes round, he had zillions of disciples. Disciples are following round with him, really. Thousands of them following. Some people soate, when Tsongkhapa is leaving the area, they begun to arrive there and then they follow next and everywhere when they are leaving, they arrived. Because that’s exactly what happened. But what happened is Tsongkhapa did not keep the people around. Gave the teachings, those who are around, are around most of them And each one of them he asked go to your own area and go in your own area, and meditate and practised and if you know little bit, try to help other people. Try to teach. And so what happened before Tsongkhapa died, or even after Tsongkhapa died, the Gelugpa monasteries and the retreat areas, popped up throughout Tibet like mushrooms, over the night everywhere. Because every body is doing something. And that’s why it is also disorganized lineage. Like if you look in the Kargyupa tradition, it is completely organized. If you are Karma Kargyu, Karmapa is the head. You have to follow exactly what the Karmapa tells you or whoever Karmapa authorized tells you. They have some kind of system there.0:46:14.2

And if you are Sakyapas, two Sakya families will completely have authority over everybody. Nyingmapas are slightly different whether you are the southern or northern. Northern has the changzerpas(*?) ..chanzerpa means northern. And like the two monasteries that is Dorje Drak and Mindroling , they have some kind of control., some kind of structure. The Gelugpa is the one who has no structure whatsoever, no structure. Ganden Tripa is supposed to be the head of Gelugpabecaause supposed to occupy Tsongkhapa’s throne. So every body will give great respect , more or less not to the individual person Ganden Tripa, but the throne of Tsongkhapa. To some extent it is indivdual like Kyabje Ling Rinpoche for 19 years Ganden Tripa. People have tremendous amount of respect because he is Ling Rinpoche. But after Ling Rinpoche, we had one Ganden Tripa, of course very nice person but with had great difficulty with that guy. So, had great difficulty with that guy. I just want share a little incident. I went to Dharamsala, I went and saw His Holiness and after that it this new Ganden Tripa, sitting next door, in the Namgyal Monastery. He is sitting there. So he has become Ganden Tripa, so I thought I at least to courtesy call. We used to debate a lot too, but…made a courtesy call . So I went to his room. He was reading something, blah blah blah blah..some thing he was reading. So I went to his room outside, and thee was one attendant. And I said, “Is Tri Rinpoche in?” And he said, “Yes, he is in but busy” Then I said , okay. Then I was walking away and somehow he says, “Is this Rimpoche?” I said, ‘Yes” He said, “Oh, oh, just one minute” So he went in and told this Gaden Tri Rinpoche that I am there to see him. “Oh, ya, please come in” So when I walked in, Bakula Rinpoche sitting there and he’s reading some oral transmission to Bakula Rinpoche,. His Holiness was giving certain teaching and Bakula Rinpoche missed one day. He was doing that substituting what he missed it. Then I walked in. He is the new Ganden Tripa, right? So, I prostrated. And then he said,”Oh, look at this emptiness is true emptiness . Look here Gelek Rinpoche is doing prostration ,he he he “ (Rimpoche laughs) I immediately said, “I am doing prostrations to the throne, not to you” (Laughter) So it was so funny. I mean he was a funny person but has a personality. But..that is an example, you know. So there are a number of great people come in and really. Ganden Tripa didn’t have any authority over anybody, zero. Zero. If he issues any order, who’s going to listen? Probably none. So that’s why the Gelugpa is completely disorganized., bunch of guys running round. Really, that’s what it is. 0:50:40.2

That is because (a) Tsongkhapa never emphasized administrative order; never ever.so every monastery is independent of its own, every lama is independent of him or herself, no one has authority over anybody, unless you are member of …current member of certain monastery, then you fall under the jurisdiction of the monastery. And if you don’t listen to them, they can kick you out of the monastery, that’s all. That’s it, nothing else they can do. So, it is totally disorganized thing. And then (2), Tsongkhapa has no reincarnation, named Tsongkhapa. Many great teachers say in their lineage, in their life lineage, Tsongkhapa is there. So many people claimed that. But there is no such a person called a Tsongkhapa reincarnation. My personal feeling is we are very grateful for that, extremely grateful. Because this reincarnation business is sometimes good, but sometimes it’s terrible. Look into the Karmapa, we have two Karmapas. And if you recent article on that New Yorker, now Tibet has damaged the institution of the Panchen Lama and there is two Panchen Lama, and no Panchen Lama. That’s what it is. So we are very grateful there is no such a person called Tsongkhapa reincarnation. We are in big trouble if we have that. Who knows some stupid guy little boy up here and then you know gets into all kinds of trouble. So, that’s why it is very great.it is very free…very free lineage, extremely free, and nobody controls anybody. A bunch of loose canons running round (Laughters) , so that’s what it is. That’s Gelugpa. (Laughters) Even joke in old Tibet, even old Tibet somebody asked somebody during the debate, “What is the meaning of ‘gelugpa’? “That guy replied, “No one controls anybody. Any canon balls, round balls, put in one big sack and then put them together. That is gelugpa”. That was even joke. That’s what it really is. In one way that’s what it is. True freedom (Laughter) I don’t know whether that is democracy or not but freedom. For example last year we had this protector issue, remember? And Geshe Kelsang Gyatso from London, went openly against the Dalai Lama, and had demonstrations going on and did all of them .And Geshe Kelsang Gyatso belongs to Sera Je monastery. And what Sera Je did, ‘We throw you out from here, we drag your name out of our list” they announced that. That’s what they can do, nothing else ; nothing else they can do anything else. That’s about it unless you want to come and fight and beat up. Then that’s different. That anybody, any gunda(?) can do. Gunda, gunda…what is that word …Indian language for …(Audience: thugs) thugs, yes.any thugs can do that; that’s a different issue. So that’s what it is. (Audience: *unclear) Time’s already up? How wonderful! (Laughers) Okay, thank you. You know, I like to inform you two things. (1), You know I thought about this, if I keep on rushing, you know like Brenda or some body even told me in he afternoon ,’last time we did that, and when we reach to the Mahayana level, she said ‘you went all in one second, everything ‘blurr’”So, that’s also true. I don’t see much point. So what I decided, I will do the half this year and I’ll do the half next year if I am still alive. And if all of us in life, and if we meet here, I’ll do the other half next year summer retreat. So, I think that’ll be better than try to finish everything in one short time here.So that’s my information, I wanted to share with you. (*announcements on schedule for tomorrow)0:56:53.5