Archive Result

Odyssey to Freedom Transcript II, Talk dated 09/24/2000 in New York

Thank you and welcome for this Thursday, so, now, we’re talking about guru devotion and practice. We’re talking on the basis of Odyssey to Freedom. So the last time I gave you a copy of that today. That kind of copy was too late. Not the Odyssey to Freedom but that little piece of paper that day, remember? Do you remember we had that one piece of paper that day, so did everybody get that? You got one? No, I think that’s what it is. Okay, acknowledge the spiritual master, reflect on the qualities of the student to cultivate a pure relationship. So we also gave you the reading list Odyssey to Freedom transcript for page 91 to 111. So I hope everybody reads, otherwise, it won’t make much sense. So what did I talk about last time. Does anybody remember? Qualities and stories on the question that we need or don’t need. The we talked about the qualities. Basically, there are ten qualities. It is mentioned in the Odyssey to Freedom, I am not going to repeat, but it is out of the (Tibetan), so well behaved and well controlled and all of these are described in a number of different places. So, I am not going to repeat here. So the quality of the masters; so I also told you the stories. Then those qualities there are seven must qualities. These are the three higher training of the mind. So according to that there must be a must quality. There must be (long pause)… 4:44

4:44 The spiritual master must have good ethical contact. Then we talked a lot about ethical things on that. I am not going to repeat. Then we also taught a spiritual master must have experience of whatever he or she is teaching. Otherwise, it is not going to help much. So that is the concentration and part of. The spiritual master must also have good wisdom. Otherwise, again, he’s not going to be helpful.

5:33 Why are we talking about these qualities? Because one must observe, the spiritual masters. We talk about that all the time. Just because somebody said so on so one, just because it’s advertised one, just because it looks good, just because its famous, just because there’s (something 6:04), banners are flying, all of them are not a valid reason at all. So, these are not valid reasons. Valid reason is one must be well maintained. Another words one must have a good moral ethical conduct, because you are mental, that’s what people copy. When there’s a spiritual master who likes to be drinking, then everybody will begin to drink. So, it’s not good. I’ve been blamed for making everybody eat meat. Laughter! I didn’t ask them to eat meat. So, I’ve been blamed for that. That’s a disqualification. That is a simple example. Though in one way it is the spiritual master or whatever he does, or she does, crazy wisdom or something like that. I think crazy wisdom is very big issue. 8:37. There is very exceptional cases of one or two might have benefit out of crazy wisdom. On general, it is always better and safer if we don’t count on the crazy wisdom, too much. Because it has also become an excuse. There also becomes a lot of …, there’s a tremendous disadvantage here and you would be better off not notice too much of crazy wisdom. So be on the ground, be grounded, be straight forward, be normal and sort of work with that. You will be much better off rather that looking for some kind of crazy wisdom, which is very very few cases. 9:54

Even though, the spiritual masters may have the quality of all crazy wisdom qualities, however, we, the individual who are going to get the benefit out of this, must not have that much good fortune to be able to do it. So, the disadvantages are much more than advantages. Advantages will probably be effective on one or two people at the most. The rest of them are going to be in big trouble. So, we are better off not to follow so much of the crazy wisdom, but just let your normal mind in your creation and your intelligence here, let it work. 11:01

11:01 Because it is definitely important to observe. I told you the story of a certain lama invited by the Chinese Emperor and observed for twelve years. Today I found a tantra which says in the dojay towan (Tibetan ) that’s a ratna mala, or (Tibetan), observe the disciple for twelve years and likewise, the lama should be observed twelve years. But in times like this, conditions like this, we don’t have twelve years. But, still, we should have some observation. One should not be associated by a fancy broacher, fancy advertising. I think we should be very careful with this. Otherwise, if it totally depends on our total spiritual development on this. Afterall, if you are taking the individual person as your spiritual master, there is no translation. If it were something you could cancel, that would be great and easy. But nowhere else Buddha ever mentioned of cancelling your spiritual master. I don’t think it works that way. So, it is important to observe and you can’t cancel it. That is the problem; there’s no cancellation. We can think we can leave it, but sometimes we have to under certain circumstances, certain spiritual teaches, we have to leave them alone. It comes in just because of situations and circumstances. But even then, you can’t cancel it. Not only you can’t cancel it, I told you that ultimately, when you become enlightened, do you become enlightened, enlightened within the nature of the mind, the guru, (__________) and that’s why there’s no cancelation. 15:32. So, that’s why it is important.

15:38 It is also important that the teacher or guru not only be more knowledgeable than I am to be my guru to be my guru. The guru must have good experience. One, they must have good knowledge, knowing whatever he or she drinks, they must know what they drink. It’s very important. If you don’t know, what he or she drinks, it’s a big problem here. I found a good story book, that’s why. That story is: 16:27 There is a village in Tibet. There is one person who knows something about dharma. What does that person really know, is he knows how to say the long mantra of Buddha Amartya’s? A long mantra Amartya’s. He’s very good. He’s totally devoted. So, he goes, and he says that. And that’s the only person available in the village. So, everybody sort of look at him as a guide, teacher, spiritual master, and he’s good. He sticks to what he knows. He’s very good. He’s doing good service for the people, and that’s fine. But one day, he happened to be going some other village or town where there is one known lama can give a teaching. So, all the people are sitting down and listening to the lamas on the thrown and talking. So, he doesn’t know what’s going on. So, he sat there, and he asked people what’s going on? He’s giving teaching now. Oh, this is teaching. So, he thought “Oh, he only knows one mantra. So, he keeps on saying he’s okay. But now he seen this teaching given. So, he would like to sit there and listen. The teaching happens to be talking about suffering in hell realm. And he happens to be there and that happens to be the teaching. So, he doesn’t know anything about it, but he heard there is torture and suffering and hell realm and this and that. He also heard about emotion removed and he committed himself that he would give teaching to his village. 18:47

18:47 So he goes back. He goes back and he announces to everybody that he was going to give a teaching. So, every village person was very happy this and they make a big thrown for him. Then he sat on that and he’s got a big volume of the Prajnaparamita text. So now I am going to give you this important teaching of the Prajnaparamita. So, he shows the wrapper, in which they wrap the Tibetan books. So, what the hell this is called wrapper, and this is the blood, this is the nose (???). Then he read the title, this is called the Prajnaparamita text, and this is written by gold and this is written by silver. This is written my copper. This is written ink; you know the five lines there. He showed them everything. Then at the end of that he’s going to say now I have completed this great teaching. You have to be practicing well or otherwise, you go to hell realm. 20:09.

20:09 And, there is tremendous suffering in the hell realm. So coincidentally, there is somebody nearby and has a new pot, cooking pot, a clay cooking pot. So in the clay cooking pot in there happens to be boiled water in it to be useful. So somebody made a big fire there and (?) clear water and boiling it (?) there’s a tootootoo. Then he gives examples and look at looked at this pot here, it is suffering in the hot hell realm here. There’s a big strong fire underneath. There is a boiling water inside. So that is suffering. That pot is making noise of boiling water. So that is how he gives the teaching when he doesn’t know anything else. Where if he had said doing the good mantra, he’s doing good service. But he’s gone beyond that level and that’s what he did. 21:34.

21:34 So there was a monk visiting, who happens to see the teaching going on. So, he sat there and listened from (?). So, he was very upset and very disappointed because he sat on the big thrown and did all this and knows nothing about it. So, he was very upset. So, the monk started crying because he was very upset. So, the people around him took him to understand that he knows so well to the other (?). The story doesn’t end here. It goes more than that. So then what happened is the village people went to that monk and said our guru is so great, so wonderful, so knowledgeable, giving us Prajnaparamita teaching today, within a very short period, and we’re all very fortunate, would you mind please compose a praise. The monk said yes, I will. So, he wrote a praise to that. The praise says: To one who had understood the first link of the twelve link. I am not going to tell you what it is. The one who well understood the first of the twelve links. One who was surrounded by the first disciples out of twenty celibacies. One who is going to claim the dessert of the first three in the second category. I bow down to the great voice, the great throat. That’s what he wrote. So, the villages are that they don’t know anything, so they think this looks great, wonderful. So, they’re going around. So actually, what he had said (25:14), the first link out of twelve is what? Ignorance. One who understood ignorance completely is full of ignorance. And, when you come (there are twenty different divisions of those celibacies), first they call is streamliners. And the first streamliner is the stupid ones. So, you are surrounded by the first category of the second level the higher realms. What are the six realms - the human realm, god realm, demigod realm. And in the second category comes what? The Animal, the Hungry Ghost and Hell Realm. And so the first to be reborn is going to be animal. This is a great beautiful sound (in Tibetan) that really means donkey. 27:43

27:43 This is an idiom for a donkey. I bow to the donkey who has been very well quality (qualified) together with ignorance, who’s surrounded by the stupid ones and who is going to take rebirth into the animal realm, and I bow to you, the Great Donkey. (It’s not the Democratic Party). So that gives a very strong message. The message is “Not only you have to have, you have to observe the spiritual teachers’ masters, but you must also use your intelligence, otherwise you will become that first category of twenty celibacies, okay. So means one should become stupid. One should not be simply buying because someone with credentials, whether it is right or wrong credential. You bought me because I was called Rinpoche. That’s about it. So, like that you shouldn’t buy because you don’t know you’re going to get it. So, it is so important to observe. And also check what the person tells you. Whether the person telling you, is telling you correct with the teachings. Whether the teaching coming to you with the books that has been available, not new books. I am not talking about the translated guru ones. Are they really telling us? Let say, someone is giving a Lam Rim teaching, whatever that person telling you, is that person telling you from the different Lam Rim books available, how it is works. The word doesn’t help the sense. It doesn’t matter. But the message, the actual message, has to telling you. Otherwise, some is telling you some strange things. So you have to make sure it’s not a donkey 30:22. So, you know somebody who knows out there can write and says about the donkey, who looks around at the stupid ones who are well qualified and will number one of the twelve links and who will be reborn as the animals. So, even then it will be in your own hand and you don’t even know. So, that really sort of tells you the quality is a must. 31:02 A simple announcement or fancy flashy credential, fancy flashing broachers advertising, is not good enough. So that’s why it’s important to know about. 31:27

31:27 Not only that, the spiritual master must know who to present, has to be able to present it nicely, has to be able to adapt, and that is very important. I’ll give you two different stories here. Today I am giving you those stories because I’m reading story books. So the story goes like this: 32:00 There was a great teacher called (Tibetan name). I’m giving you those names, but it doesn’t mean that much to you. however, that mean some … seventeenth century and one of the best well known teachers’ kind of like that dwelled in Tibet. So he was giving Lam Rim teaching. So, the Chinese amin, they call it, really, I don’t know what the Chinese (?) they have in Tibet. So here in Tibetan we call them the Chinese ambassadors, but the Chinese says more than that ambassadors they’re governors, so that was the way it is. So anyway, there are two amens, those two amens came and (?) were going to listen to Rinpoche’s teachings. So again, it happens to be the guru devotions. So, the guru tells the people you have to have good respect, you have to treat the guru like a buddha, you have to be behaved, you have to do all of those and there was a translator who valid translating what the Rinpoche was giving teaching rather that whatever was suitable and that’s doing a bad translation. So, members of this two are talking to each other for a little while and after the first session they left, and they didn’t come back. So what they talked about is this is crazy lama. He said that we should serve him, we should be his servant and we are the representative of the intra of China, how can we serve him? He must be crazy one, let’s go. So, that’s how they left. So that is an example of not nicely presenting it. He couldn’t benefit these Chinese amens at all, because, in other words, what we said what he said and what they heard and what they thought did not sound right. So, it was not a good way of doing it. You must know the art of presentation. 34:50

34:50 Now another example along with this is the teacher of the Eighth Dalai Lama, a very great teacher called (Tibetan Name). This was in the Nepal Tibet border over there sitting and there was a village person, a local person who the whole town respect him very much, but actually he was not that great person. So, he came to see (Tibetan Master) and he told him I have denounce and eradicated negative emotions completely for a very long time ago. But, however, occasionally this anger and attachment pours back to me very often, what is this? So, you know if you the Master is not a nice one, not very clever, he doesn’t have the art of presentation, he could have said, well, it’s a clear sign that you have not really cleared this so it’s coming back. So, if he did that would be an insult to him because he claims to be the village great teacher, and people respect him. So he had a certain look around and it happened to be summer and he was sitting outside. There was a tree that has been cut and some new branches coming out from the side. 36:47 So he’s really thinking, it is true, yes, it is just like that tree trunk. The tree has been cut, but the branches coming, that’s what is is. So he says, yea oh, that what happens we can see the tree is cut here but the new branches coming out. So actually, new branches coming up, because the root there. Give the message to him that the root is there, and you didn’t say it in exact words, so he’s very happy. 37:37

37:37 So he went back, and he told the village, that lama is quite okay. He comes to my level and you can all learn from him, that will be good. And even he told me why my anger is coming back. So actually, you can’t give the wrong thing. If you every give the wrong thing, you’re misleading. But here you see the root of the tree is still there. See, the pointing out to the tree trunk still there is clear cut. And, yet is shows coming up because the tree trunk is there. He didn’t say because the tree trunk is there it’s coming up, right, you can see it. It happens. So, he learned there. It happens. So, he got opportunity to teach about it and he can hear himself realize, that because the tree trunk is there, so it comes back. So, you begin to realize that I have not eradicated from the root. I have not really reduced completely. I have not eradicated. He will know that if he thinks and meditates. If it doesn’t then what can you do? If the Master told him, you have not eradicated from the root, he’s going to be angry and he’s going to create more negative karma after a while. 39:31 And, that’s how you of a wise way of doing it, so it’s very important. 39:32

39:32 I was talking with a lama in a retreat up in (?) The lama had developed it, sort of a pattern, and he said a since we talked last time, I developed sort of a tree. I see a tree-self. The self is the ego, and the self is the soul, and the self is the one who invited that. So, this tree, I see these two together and this will go over here and this one will go away, meaning the ego goes away getting enlightened, the soul continues. So, he tried to me. So, I thought about it and I said, “I can live with that.” He said, you can live with that. Oh, you can, but I tried to discern John Halifax, both of them tried to tell me Buddha said this, and Buddha said that. So, I said “I can live with this.” Later he said, why? I said, “Why not?” 41:11 I said “Ego is vine, and this is the level what you call a soul or consciousness or whatever. It is the level that you put in and we’re not in the level where the Nagarjuna and the Shakya carrier, where whether the self exists or not exist. We are not at that level at all. It doesn’t matter. What we need is the ability to hold something, that is you want to call soul, that’s fine. I’m going to call it consciousness. So, then he said that becoming enlightened, nothing wrong with this. 41:56

So that is okay. Then you turn around and those who are not okay what is the problem with them? What is the problem with them is the soul, yea, why they beat up soul all the time? What is wrong with it? It is not beat up, the soul, what I understand is that is has to be permanent. If it is permanent it cannot develop, it cannot go over here, it cannot come from here, it cannot go over here. That’s the problem at the level is means a teleological problem or theoretical problem and let’s not bother. 42:42 So, the problem was in believing it was the tree trunk.

42:53 I mean that really, it is true for us at this moment we’re way below the level of soul or consciousness of what it is. if is impermanent it’s going to die and not going to exist. So then I said it is it that they call it continuation of discontinuity. And he said it’s very clear. So that’s really true. So, if its continuing is continuing as discontinuity because it has to be impermanent. So, whether you’re going to call it soul or consciousness doesn’t matter. So, you don’t have to fight that I’m a Buddhist, so I am not going to call that soul. I’m going to that consciousness. If I’m a Christian I am not going to call it consciousness, I’m going to call it soul. 43:52 Whether that makes a difference we don’t have life there. It continues anyway, even if it discontinuation of discontinuity, even then it continues. 44:08 So, for our level, we don’t make it. So that’s is the reasons, why we have to be open mind. We can’t be very rigid on, particularly, on terminologies. Terminologies are not going to work very well. Ego, we talk about ego, it’s a psychology group, phycological people had to develop that terminology, or they’d use something else. We try to use for something else. These are the points where we have to pay attention. So, we can’t be so rigid in saying, well, I don’t accept the soul, I accept consciousness, as a Buddhist is supposed to. It is not a point of argument. It doesn’t make sense to me. If you are going to call it soul, I am fine with it. if you are going to call it consciousness, it’s fine, as long as you take that as impermanence, rather than permanent one. 45:34

45:34 Permanent is unchangeable, you can’t change. You can’t change the personality. You cannot improve. Number one, you are working at the spiritual path, where you are not going to improve anyway, not well as enjoy life, where you can, while you can. So, this is the point, so as long as there is impermanent is continuations of discontinuity, fine, whatever you call it. Right? So, the art of presentation is including whatever the people can understand and grasp it at the level you should be able to talk rather than talking overhead. Other, if you keep on talking overhead, then what is the use? They’re not going to get any message. The Tibetans have an example for that. And, again, it is the donkey. The donkey’s ear. Whether you are going to put gold dust in there or whether you are going ot put sand in there it’s will move. 46:59 Silence. 47:19 So, that’s the point. So, why do I say this here? Because many of us would like to be helpful to other people. When you want to be helpful for other people, you have to be able to help yourself, first. And, if you can’t help yourself, you can never be able to help others. 48:00.

48:00 Atisha has said, (in Tibetan) Unless you have worked yourself and developed yourself and have attained (trained) your own mind, until then, you will never be able to train the others. You can become a professor. You can do research and write a nice book and get a nice lecture. That’s fine. But that is not a spiritual guide. The spiritual guide of the spiritual master’s let’s calls it old guru or whatever, you are guiding the individual on the path. And, if you don’t know the path, how can you guide. Knowledge alone, intellectual knowledge alone, cannot do. It needs some insight, some development if you don’t have that. Actually, what you need is good development. I am asking that in my head. In the West if you have some different drinks, if you have a little bit of high (a buzz) if you call that experience. You say, I have experience, you may call that development. So, I am not talking about that at all. I am not talking about that development, not that experience. I am talking about those experiences I am talking here; the individual has practiced that, meditated that, and made a point where you developed unshakable understanding and you are incorporating it in your life. That is the experience, I am talking about. I am talking about that development. I am not talking about development and experience you had in the dreams, or you are a little too high and so so many things. I am not talking about that, okay. So, the word experience is very tricky. So that it. That is what Atisha is saying. Unless and until you have had that with yourself, then you cannot help. 50:49

50:49 A lot of people ask I would like to be teacher. Sure, Great! But what are you going to teach? That’s the question. You can read a book and teach out at the university and get a job. One big academic professor, right, nothing wrong with that. But if you really want to guide some individual to the path, you must have experience with the path. Whatever you are guiding, you have to have that experience. If you don’t, you cannot. I think I shared with you, I went to a conference of Buddhist teachers, in California, where his Holiness was also attending. So every time they would like to have some sort of validation, and some kind of teacher appointment, and I keep on thinking, even one of the attendees even to ask to speak in how to transfer authority. However, I don’t have any authority to transfer. Number one, really true. I don’t have any authority to transfer. I don’t even have an appointed even at Jewel Heart. I came in and had a few friends and you people came in and that’s how became. I wasn’t appointed by Dalai Lama. I was not elected by the members of Jewel Heart; I have not been appointed by anybody. 53:00. That’s how it is. So, if you have something to share with people and you share that, that’s how you become a teacher. 53:14

53:14 Spiritual teachers are not appointed. Even one person told me in that conference. Every tradition had appointed teachers. Why not every Tibetan Buddhist ever appointed Western teachers? Actually, they do. A number of are appointed. This teaching business is the individual when you have something, people will come, and that how you become. There is not some kind of authority to give to you. There is no such system in Tibet, before. Every teacher, they are great teachers. They have become a teacher because of their quality. Not because, somebody, yea, all the monasteries appointed a sealed politics spiritual all together fields damned, but within certain traditions only. 54:40 (revisit as unclear).

54:40 Spiritual teachers are not that. So, it is important to remember that, so I am talking about spiritual masters. It is not in wrong place to mention. That is how it is. In some ways it has become sort of disorganized manner. But on the other hand, the spiritual path is never organized, never ever. If it is so organized, it is not necessarily great. What happens to the Christian churches, you know? I don’t have to tell you, you know better. It is too organized, that’s the problem. So, the spiritual path is always having to be (?) disorganized, is okay. Really, it’s okay. But this is not going to go well with the today’s thinking. 55:48

55:48 If you are two organized, it is not good. Then you become a good institution. It is good but it doesn’t have it own traditional values. It has a developed a morality. That’s what it is. It has to be solid, that’s all I ask. That’s fine. Yet, we shouldn’t waste so much energy to be disorganized to repeat repeated what Queen Mary, at that level you have to be organized. Actual thing should not be so organized. And, they you say you’re going to appoint all of those. Then you get all of that problems. It is always better the individual should choose their own teacher, their own guru, their own master. Whatever the reason might be. It has to be. Never, the guru never chooses (?) a disciple. I can’t say never right? Even James Bonds says, “Never say Never,” right? No, but mostly this, students choose gurus and teachers; not the teachers choose the disciples. That’s the tradition. That’s why I cautious, to say “I’m your guru.” You know it happens in Jewel Heart a number of times. And if somebody calls you in the middle of the night, I’m your guru, you have to run away five hundred miles without looking back. I tell you that all the time. That’s what happens, really. 57:54

57:54 It happened, a couple of people called and said, “I’m your guru, you know.” When someone tries to tell you “I’m your guru anyway.” Never ever. But also, the organizations should not claim over people. I think that is another important step. It happens in the West. It never happens in Tibet, saying you take refuge to a guru who happens to be our guru or something, so you belong to us. Some so of teachers do that. That is wrong. No one belongs to anybody. I only belong to myself. I am not even sure I belong to myself or not. Sometimes, I wonder. You never know. Usually, in America you say, “I belong to my wife.” I doubt it very much, that, too. I don’t think so. I don’t think anyone belongs to anybody, anybody. No one belongs to anybody. Even you belong to yourself, I am not even sure about that. Therefore, no one has claim over, just because you took refuge, or that’s because you took initiation, or that’s because you are too certain teachings belong to me. That is absolutely wrong. No one has any claim. If you want to be a member of that, you’re welcome. Maybe, that’s my problem. Maybe I almost turn to become a nun/member (?) 60:00.

Really, if you want to become a member, you’re a member. It doesn’t belong. That’s a different belonging. (?) 60:17 It is a different sense of belonging that changes over there. That is important to remember. Yes, guru is necessary. I have told you a couple of examples I shared. Right? It has to be right. If it is wrong, I talked to you about this very deep familiar business and Jim Jones, Hell Bark (61:00) all this are wrong. An outstanding example of this is Angulimala. During the Buddhas reading. Remember, I shared that all the time. The one wrong spiritual guide said that person, if you can kill one thousand human beings a week and cut their tongues and put a stick and wear it and come back to me, I will liberate you. So Anguliamala goes killing 999. That is the wrong spiritual master. Angulimala must be very stupid, too, to listen to it. So, what’s the first category of (?) division. So, all of those, actually this, the story that I shared with you today, this is the book, this is the wrapper, this is the thing obtains (?), Ling Rinpoche said that story a number of times actually. So, I think this is the first time I shared with you, because I happened to read the book today. But that was actually a story Ling Rinpoche told me many years ago a number of times. That’s what it is. So, the teacher must know. 62:38

62:34 Even though there are no ten qualities, at least there’s five. Then there is no five, the three higher level training is a must. That is must. One with less than that one should not accept. The art of presentation is very important. But sometimes, is (?) is that important, in the terms of (Towala Mongay ?) , who was a great teacher, Towala Mongay. His teachings are very short but, on the point, but whoever is able to listen to him, is extremely helpful. But he doesn’t have art of presentation. He’s (?). Moreover, he doesn’t even have the art of sitting. He’s always being in a rush (?) and he rubs them down, and ball headed. And sometimes when we rub to much, it sticks over here and there. That’s Tanshihow is a great being. And one who listens to him, it has been very helpful. So, they forget about art, you know. And that shows you it is not a part of must quality. But it makes a hell of a difference. It makes a hell of a difference because if someone is really is over their head, they have no idea. All of those traits, that I told you earlier, he does that, and he does that and (?) does that, they are all over head and themselves great. But actually, they are doing a terrible thing. So, look sounds great. That happens. 64:54 [Very difficult section to transcribe]

64.54 So, the teachers’ qualities. Likewise, the qualities of the teacher you have to observe. Likewise, there is a disciple quality as well. Students has his own qualities, too. The worst part is a prefabricated mind. You have some idea that this person is going to say about this and about that thing. So, when you have that idea and you come with that idea, so the teacher may not say that. So, when the teacher says that, you are happy. He said the right thing. That’s right. If he says something else you say, well I am not so sure. That’s not the color eyeballs, right. So that is there. That is the prefabricated idea, preconception idea. And that doesn’t actually not right. Even is you are hearing spiritual master guru, really. You should not actually look for faults, searching for faults. 66:39

66:39 Searching for fault or contradictions cannot not be. All observations should be done the observation period, you can do whatever you want to do. But once you have accepted, you should not be looking for faults. I am not sure whether I share this with you or not. Ling Rinpoche told me, that he went to see (another Rinpoche) to get some oral translation along with (another Rinpoche) together. Do you know (?) Rinpoche is dyslexic. So, Demo Rinpoche told Ling Rinpoche, well “If I make a mistake correct me.” This is what Ling Rinpoche told me. So, the other Rinpoche is reading the book he’s reading upside down, doing dyslexic. So, Demo Rinpoche kept on correcting a couple of times. Actually, quite a couple of times. And after a little while, (?) Rinpoche picked the book up like this and while reading it he and while reading it he said, oh you two have come here to citizen me. No come to citizen me and then I didn’t say a word. Whatever he said, I sat down. So that thing happens. 68:24 So then he’s not serving any purpose. But when you have a genuine question, not looking for contradictions to point it out. If you are Tibetan, you don’t find the contradictions. But you are not here to debate. So, you should not be looking for contradictions all the time. Because you will go the rest of your life looking faults in other people and never find the faults of yourself. If all your doors open outside searching for faults of others, we are very good at it, actually. But if you have to search your own faults, we’re not good. We’re terrible. Every fault everyone will deny it. If you cannot deny it, you have great excuses, one after the other of them. Excuse, one can always find. The traditional Tibetan saying is: “Even is some who killed his own father, will have good excuses. Always, they can find. Excuse after excuse, you can always find. That’s not right. 69:51 Again, I am not saying you have bought everything I am saying, like the story of the two Chinese I don’t want in here. We are talking about relationships. We are talking about quality. The deals between the guru and the quality of the guru and the quality of the disciple, because you have to (?) resist like that on yourself. That’s what we’re talking about. 70:33

70:33 Now I want to touch the relationship a little bit. If you read those reading that I give you, it will definitely touch, in particularly detail “Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand.” It is very detailed in there. There is mental relationship, the is physical action relationship, all to them are there. So read those. Don’t overlook. Think about it. It is important. But I have also discouraged in Jewel Heart in here or wherever any part of Jewel Heart. I have totally discouraged it, people together bowing down. doing prostrations, bringing scarfs, all of them. All of them, I have completely discouraged. I have reasons for that. Though if you read Pobongka book or any Lam Rim here, if you read it, it will very much encourage. There is reason for that, and I have discouraged. I am not going against them. I have discouraged because of reason. It becomes show biz and when it becomes show biz, it is useless. Number one, I myself, is such a person, that I don’t like people to, you know, to make you look like “doll.” 72:34 I don’t like that, personally. As a person, I don’t like to be “doll.” Like Rush Limbaugh on the radio after the Dalai Lama interview with Larry King. The next morning (Russ Limbaugh) said “Hello Dolly Lama. How are you Dolly Lama?” I think you remember me and Deepak Chopra. Deepak Chopra and His Holiness was on the television with Larry King the next morning. “Hello Dolly Lama and Deepak Chopra.” Don’t you remember Deepak Chopra. S0, I don’t want to be dolly. That’s why I discourage right from the beginning, discourse it. There’s a reason is Darrow Rinpoche, a great teacher, who passed away a number of years ago now, and he came for a visit in the United States. And, he had been invited by Thurman. And so, he started with Amhurst and ended his thing is Hawaii. So there is a number of people following him throughout from Amherst to Hawaii, twenty, thirty, forty people followed him wherever he go. 74:10 So he came to visit me. That was the beginning of Jewel Heart. There was me and maybe ten or fifteen people there. So, I called Thurman and said I would like to invite (? Rinpoche). He said, “Yea, I don’t know what to say, he’s a Dara Rinpoche is a big lama and very important and time is very limited and he (?), and I don’t think it’s appropriate and I think is would cost a lot of money and not be able to work out. 74:42. So I said, “Okay, fine.” Then two days later Thurman called me back and Dowa Rinpoche want to come see you. I didn’t call him at all. He says, “you want to come and see me. So, I say, okay and fine to he came to see. So, we’re sitting there, and he says, “Don’t you think this was those people are so great unlike Tibetans.” So, I said “What is so great about it”? He said, “look at their devotion. He said how long ago these young Tibetans will never do. When you go in there they stand up, the bow down, they do prostrations, the sit down, all of this. Look at the devotion, it is so amazing. They are brand new in Buddhism. So how can they do?” I said, you think they’re devotion. Is that devotion?” He says, “Otherwise, why are they doing it?” So, I said “Let’s find out.” 75:48

75:48 So he has a teaching session. So, he went ahead. There were two elderly ladies follow him. I don’t know where they come from. So anyway, sitting like this. So, I’m behind Dowa Rinpoche so I asked, “What are you doing?” And one of them asked “Did I do something wrong? And I said, “No, no, no.” So, the other lady says “He’s a nice guy, so, I’m trying to be nice. Then the third one says, “Isn’t that Tibetan custom”? So, there are lots of times, so they give teaching over here. (?) So, you would? Yea, I heard. So, I say that’s what it is “They think it is Tibetan custom and someone told them you have to stand up, and folding hands and that’s why they’re doing it. They think it’s Tibetan customs. They might have seen this when His Holiness comes around. That’s because they have devotion, and other’s become sort of show biz.” So, then Dowa Rinpoche says, “Yes, you are right. Yes, I heard about it.” But he understands English, but he used a translator. He said, “I never thought about that.” I said, “Yea, I begin to know the culture here, outward.” Not a lot of devotion. They think it is a part of ceremony or a part of _______, or is that a part of Tibetan culture. What did I do wrong? I am trying to be nice to him because of his culture. So, all of those tells you 77:41So, that is one reason why I completely discourage it. I don’t even want you to get up. I don’t want that to become a culture here.

78:00 By objecting that and if you have something to benefit the individual and the appreciation of the benefit is really going to pick up in the heart, in their mind. That is the seat (or seed) of devotion. You cannot force devotion. Otherwise, all the army generals have great devotion but all the solders ritually or not is really not there. Right? 78:44 When the generals come, the will solders salute and do all that. Right? That’s because you are supposed to do it. Do you think the solder’s have great devotion to the general and that’s why they’re saluting? Certainly, not. Nineth-nine point nine of the solders do that, because they are supposed to do that. That’s their job. They are paid to do that. They are not really doing that out of devotion. So, you cannot force them. But is you are benefiting, if you benefit, there’s appreciation? That is feeling natural, the appreciation will come. That appreciation is the seed of guru devotional practice. That (?) cannot be forced. It must grow within the individual. So, by objecting artificial show biz gesture, sometimes it helps to ________ appreciation. 80:06. What you are really looking for is that (which is) within your heart - appreciation. That is the seed. The rest of them is show biz. 80:25

80:25 So, the show biz will do no good. We’re working with our minds. We’re looking for internal development. External gestures will not help that much, in internal development. Actually, that appreciation is the first spiritual development one develops within the one individual. So, that is the seed of guru devotion. And, that seed will develop and then every American people, who are in the spiritual path, will act just like Asian people, knowing your ________. It is not in your culture at all. Even if your culture tries to make you do it, not only will it be show biz, it will only last a couple of days. The more that you know people, the more you are not going to do it, that way, anyway. So, there is no point, and it doesn’t develop. It doesn’t help anything. Appreciation at the heart is the seed; and, that you find within yourself. 82:45 That is the root of all development, guru devotional practice is root of all development is that. Yea, you don’t have to do that. Do you fight with your guru and use all the “f” words and swearing may not? May not, because that may create some negativities. Actually, the “f” words should not be used on anybody else. That is what it is. Not only a guru but anybody, especially, not a guru. That may create some negativities. 83:47

83:47 So anyway, basically, the more I am going to refer to what you read “Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand,” because also the “Odyssey to Freedom” there is about twenty pages and I am not going to talk too much on that. I might have talked too much of the devotional, physical. You need to know. But you don’t have to do it, if you _______me. But, over here, not everybody is my disciples. So, don’t worry about it. So those who are, don’t have to do that. You don’t have to do that. But sometimes you are not doing with me, but some other lamas you may do it. They may find it insulting. So, you have to go way out back too. (?) 84:47 So people do like you to do it. So, that’s their business. It is between you and them and not between me and you. That’s how it is. And, for me, it sounds pretty useful buy not doing it. So, I guess with that much I (conclude) my talk today and if you have any questions I will __________it went quite fast. 85:18

Question & Answer Session (85:18)

Very difficult to understand the question. Are you saying that enlightenment it takes place in the guru’s mind?

Rimpoche: In the natural guru’s mind, not inside the guru’s mind.

So, what happens if the guru passes away before you become enlightened. Rimpoche, do you think the mind is dead, too? Audience: What happens if (guru) incarnates into another person.

Rimpoche: So that’s a good question for Western people. It’s a good question. I don’t know that I am capable of repeating your question. I guess you said, that if the guru dies before I am reincarnated and I have to altered enlightenment within the mind, within the nature of the mind of a guru, then what happens. Do I become within the mind within the guru’s reincarnated mind? I think that’s a very good question for a Western mind. Yes, this is really a good question. To me, it does something different. Yes, I do accept reincarnation. Otherwise, I’ll be out of job. I do accept reincarnation. However, when I am looking at mu guru (_______________ in Tibetan, Rinpoche). When I am looking at their mind and when I am looking and their reincarnation mind. In my view, the reincarnation must be the same as _______Rinpoche it was. However, in my own mind, I never change that image and my mental projection. I am not going to search that from the previous one into reincarnation, even mind, even body, everything. if that if true reincarnation, may be, must be. I accept that. But I don’t total image that my mental object the total guru with the physical mental thing had not become this one. It remains in this level. If it remains within the enlightened mind, never. Not necessarily Dharmakaya, or Sambhogakaya or Nirmanakaya, but it remains there, a manifestation of, point of something comes out. And that mind occupies another body we call it reincarnation. I don’t think the whole thing becomes this. if you ask me if they are two separate persons, certainly not. Is this a whole person, in my mind, honestly speaking to you, no. This is another whole object. This is something spark come out of it. It is not the whole fire there, it is some kind of a spark that came out. Nothing more less every reincarnation is like that. Sometimes there may be too many sparks. So, we have two Karmapa’s two Panchen and who know. You could have seven Panchen lamas of karma (?) 90:48

Next Question

If the relationship so unique that is doesn’t have spark to reincarnate? That also I don’t know. But in my case can I have the total projection of a Ling Rimpoche or a ________Rinpoche to the reincarnations, no. Do I respect them? Tremendously! But I don’t see the whole nest in there. That is my personal. Don’t check it. Nothing against to anybody. I just simply sharing my personal view of this.

Nest Question

Do all sort of great minds work like one.

Rimpoche:

There is a wholeness. There is a wholeness of the enlightened mind and becomes a big wholeness within that. So that reincarnation, I don’t think that wholeness is. If also depends how the incarnate lama behaved themselves, too. As like me, I have been labeled because I behaved very badly. Yes, I am not joking. I used to smoke. I used to drink. I fell from the monkhood. What’s worse than that? (?) So, that’s about that. I might have converted a little bit of sharing dharma with a couple of you people. That maybe the only good thing I did. Who knows? And there are some other incarnate lamas are not out. There originally is nothing wrong. But some behave very funny. Some have been labeled with no knowledge. But knowing some not training, circumstances. Some have bad behavior. Whether there is one incarnate lama, I will not name it. One of the biggest lama’s in Kandan Monetary, do no different than _______Rinpoche has been stealing something (End of Tape)