Archive Result

Soundfile 20010100GRCAHealing1

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location California

Topic Healing

Transcriber Jill Neuwirth

Date 1/17/2022

Male Announcer: Procultura presents From Tradition to Modernity: Asian Therapies for Cancer, an international conference held in New York City, March 2001. This is tape number 26, Kyabje Gelek Rimpoche speaks on Gifts of the Body; A Spiritual Dimension of Health and Healing.

Female Announcer: …Sosa. I’m the Director of Procultura we are the co-sponsors of this conference on Asian Therapies for Cancer and I’m delighted to be here to introduce Gelek Rimpoche. Gelek Rimpoche is an old friend of mine and when I start to think the years how long I know him, I remember that I once had dinner with him in Delhi, in his house in Delhi, and then I say I felt deathly sick and I thought, my God, what have these Tibetans fed me? They hadn’t fed me anything. It turned out that I was pregnant. And my daughter is now in college, Alexandra, so Rimpoche that’s how long I know Rimpoche. Procultura really started as a conversation, in a result of a conversation with The Dalai Lama who really wanted us to create a forum to bring traditional health knowledge on to the same stage as biomedical knowledge, traditional health practitioners to speak as peers and present as peers with biomedical health practitioners. We’ve had a conference on Tibetan medicine as several small meetings we’re doing a big conference on Native American medicine and I always think of Rimpoche as being my partner in this. I feel it’s such a great opportunity to count on him to come and present to you a whole world of- a whole another approach to think of health and healing.

[0:02:00.3] So I overuse him as I have in the past at the Tibetan conference and I am this time. I actually got a call yesterday from Dr. James Gordon who is the chairman of the White House commission on Alternative Medicine, who requested he come and moderate this session with Gelek Rimpoche and Bob Thurman, so that’s how I overuse Rimpoche. So really it’s a great honor in bringing him here tonight when he’s actually sick, so we might have to stop him and send him back to bed because he’s got a bad throat (Laughs) to speak. I could sit and go through his bio you’ve had it. I don’t want to waste your time, I think the best thing is Rimpoche I don’t want to see you standing. I want you to come and speak and we let everyone do their homework in bed tonight. Thank you so much. (Audience applause)

[0:03:04.2] Rimpoche: Well, thank you for the beautiful introduction and most of thing what she said is not really true. I didn’t contribute anything in there because there’s nothing for me to contribute. I’m here to talk to you from the spiritual angle only because that’s all I know. I know no knowledge of Tibetan medicine or anything, so I’d like to make clear- first I’d like to apologize because I had this funny, this laryngitis or that thing, so sorry that you have to bear this funny noise. First of all, I don’t have good voice. When I was a kid, about six or seven, and then about ten, the old Tibetan education system make you to memorize the huge volumes and the way for me to memorize was that I read it loud as I can and also I do have a teachers that sit little farther away and listens, so when they don’t hear very well, they will come back and I get some blessings. You know what the blessings are, the good old Tibetan monasteries, you get some nice little lashes. These are they called blessings. So I used to scream all the time and got some problem, so I don’t have good voice, number one. And number two, this little additional problem hopefully it’s temporary, makes you little hard to hear. My apologies.

[0:05:19.9] And the way I’d like to talk to you today is the from the body’s gift to the spiritual- (Speaks to audience) So I’m looking like two types of body. The physical body and the mental body. So both of them are body. So though normally in the West mental body is not recognized as a body, as mind, you separate and we put body as the physical thing. I’ve been trained and brought in by looking both as mental body as well as physical body. So I’ve been looking to two ways here of the mind’s contribution, mental body’s contribution, towards when people come encounter with the sicknesses and from the bodies as well. I’ve been talking something little strange things to you tonight because what it used to be handled in Tibet was very strange for a number of you. Those of you are familiar with the Tibetan culture, you don’t have much problem. But those of you who are not, it’s a little strange. So, I’d like to talk to you when I was twelve years old I got, I think I got what you call Measles, not the Chicken Pox, but Measles. And so, a friend of mine same age from a noble family in Tibet also got the same illness at the same time. And the friend of mine at this time, in those days in Tibet, it was very difficult to cure. He died like thirteen or fourteen days later, and I somehow got better.

[0:08:11.7] So I’m going to talk to you what they did, you know, when I got sick. The first thing, though we do have regular physicians, to our family physicians and we do have those physicians and everything there, but what they did is they went and check with the various lamas and those protectors comes into trance and saying what to do even though you have a doctor there. So it is in the culture that they check with the spiritual people first because sometimes certain physicians are, even your own physicians, are sometimes doesn’t work exactly should be, should be, should it work. It’s a little strange. The Tibetan medicine is very good medicine, no doubt, it helps a lot. But might not be very scientific as we call it now when we look at scientific, it might not be. The different doctors give you different medicine for same illnesses and it’s not so much the medicine alone, but the individual doctor also, whether it suit that patients or not, that’s the reasons why they check with the spiritual angle. And that includes lamas who do more. I’m sure many of you are very much aware of this Mo business. If you- it’s very funny. On those who works, it works. And those who don’t work, it doesn’t work because it’s simply the throwing three piece of dice and see what number comes up and very much looks like Chinese I Ching type of thing it works.

[0:10:30.8] So, but when it works, it works. It’s a funny thing. But when it doesn’t work it’s just simply throwing dice. And when you throw dice you’re bound to have one number will come up. So that’s the luck. This is our old culture, we do that. We do that, and most of the time depends on the individual person who does the Mo, and some of them are very good, excellent, they can almost tell you exactly what’s going to happen. It’s not so much what you read out of the book what they say if you have this number, you do this and that. It is the individual intuition that makes the difference. And after that, there’s certain those protectors comes into trance and they also tells you take this medicine, and don’t take this medicine, and all this and that sort of thing. Sometimes they’re right. When I was sick and it happens to be right. Sometimes it is wrong, even The Thirteenth Dalai Lama, when he died it was accused that one of the protectors has given a wrong medicine. So whatever the reason is, that’s exactly how it works. So when they do the Mo these days we joke, saying eenie, meanie, miney, Mo. Catch a tiger by the toes, right? So that’s almost like that.

[0:12:20.8] So anyway, in my case, as the Mo, as well as the protector. In the case of the, our own family protector, it is a protector named Samadha (?) [0:12:36.2] So it’s our own family protector, and protector told you should give him a very strong chang, it’s a Tibetan barley beer which is deadly against fever, terrible. So but finally they decided to give me that. It is sort of question whether I’m going to survive or not. So the next day I got better. But my friend other side died. So that’s that. So basically, so from the spiritual angle when we check, and those medicine things comes to, as, not as a second, but whether it is suitable to the individual or not from that way it does. But the important thing is, how about your mind set-up, particularly a lot of people when we have those terrible disease when we encounter with them, what do we do? So in the West, of course we worry tremendously. We really worry tremendously and you have every right to worry because, because the situation. However, does the worrying really help? And that is the question one has to raise very importantly. Perhaps. I’m not saying you shouldn’t worry, but getting upset and terrifying it, and all of those are there, definitely. Because what we look in, what we look in is our total existence, it’s total life, it’s total existence and has been threatened so naturally we have to worry, and it’s we have to be afraid. But carrying the worry over and over again and afraid, the fear of dying carrying all the time, would that be helpful? It’s a big question.

[0:15:12.9] Will it help? I don’t think so. Not only it will not help, it give us additional suffering. There was a great Buddhist master called Shantideva. Shantideva says, if there is something to be corrected, then don’t worry about it, go ahead and correct. Put your total efforts for the correction. And if there is nothing to be corrected, what is the use of getting upset and worrying? It gives us additional suffering. That’s absolutely true. We not only carry the physical pains, we carry much more mental agony worrying about it. Mental agony. Of course, we do have to worry because ending, it might end our life. Perhaps what I look, and what many people look, there’s a slightly different. I look from the point of reincarnation and many people don’t. Reincarnation, it is very funny. And interesting. Honestly speaking, when I first came in the United States, in the mid-80s, and I was very afraid of talking about reincarnation, thinking that people will think it’s something funny. So I’m afraid of talking about the reincarnation. But the moment I started talking about reincarnation, to my surprise people do accept the reincarnation. It was a little shocking to me, very easily people accepted. So I begin to wonder why. So you know what I found? People would like to continue.

[0:17:38.4] People don’t want to die. They would love to live continuously so the reincarnation is beautiful way of continuing. Because you think you can come back as though you went to bathroom and changed. Changed your dress and come out. So people looking that way. That’s not true. That’s not true at all. Though, still, when I look from the reincarnation point of view I see the whole perspective of lives. It doesn’t end in one life. And when you don’t look from the reincarnation point of view, then life begins here and ends there. It is short, and it is nothing so much in there. Whatever you get it here, then you have it. Once you’re gone, it’s gone forever. And that somehow does not apply to me. I do not have a scientific proof to tell you there is reincarnation, but I still do have very strong thoughts and reasons, and I don’t want to say it belief, but there’s a strong conviction within me that I do accept the reincarnation because life simply does not end the day when we die. It doesn’t. Few years ago, one of my good friend, the poet Allen Ginsberg, died in this city. He died about two in the morning. And about six, six thirty, and I was looking at the body and I said, he’s still here, because that’s what I felt it. I don’t have proof, but is still there. So the Philip Glass, who is the composer, said even I can tell he’s still here. So I’m glad there’s somebody else who thinks even I can tell he’s still here.

[0:20:32.4] So the really thing what happens is, when we see the brain dead comes, people just doesn’t completely go at that time. It continues. And according to whatever little we know at that time and looking at it, sort of he continues remain till eleven thirty at night. So we’re talking about it leaving and not leaving. What are we talking about it? We are talking about the consciousness. The consciousness. The real person, the real being. The real individual human being is the consciousness, not the body. Not even the mind, but I don’t want confuse you by bringing that. Consciousness. The consciousness is the person, is the being, so when we talk about being and gone, we’re talking about separation of identity, the today’s identity, it is our physical body what we have, that is our identity because we are identified by this shape, by this look. The color of the skin, shape of the, whatever, body or face or whatever, and all those how tall you are and how short you are and all that. So we identify the individual by the body, so the body really is the identity of our identity and the death, to me, is the separation of the individual person, or being, and its identity- no shouldn’t say its, his or hers identity. That is that separation is called death to me. Doesn’t end.

[0:23:04.8] So when you’re looking from that angle, it is the total separation of the individual and identity. So the individual continue even the after the identity and picks up new identity but the same person, different identity so that’s, I like to call that reincarnation. So when you’re looking at the reincarnation. Your life is not going to end day when you’re separating from this body and yourself. Did anybody see it? Unfortunately no. The buddhas and so and so, they say they did see it, but whether we’re going to believe them or not is different issue. Did I ever see anybody who had come back from so-called future life and shake hands and say, how are you? I’m from bardo. I never had that. Why do I have a very strong conviction of thinking there is reincarnation? I was very skeptical person. Probably a terrible one in the Tibetan monasteries. When I would like not to believe anything they say, whatever. Almost like a troublemaker, some kind of thing you know, because I have very funny mind. Even today I’m very skeptical of anything. I like to raise a lot of question until I’m satisfied I will say why, why, why? And if I satisfied, I don’t say why anymore. So about this reincarnation, I never believed it. Though I’d been labeled as reincarnated lama. I shouldn’t say that. If I do say that, I may lose my job. But I never believed it. Never believed it because I don’t recollect anything on my previous life.

[0:25:45.1] And that’s why I don’t believe. But I’ve been told and when you were kids you did this, you did this, you did this, but I never know whether they’re just telling me stories or it’s reality, I have no idea. However, it is been little while, it’s some kind of internal thing that comes in. I don’t like to say inner voice, people may think it, but not. Some kind of very strong thing inside, from inside, it’s not coming from outside to in. Not because somebody’s telling me, not because I’m reading the stories, not because I have the titles, not because all this but some kind of internally something comes out and tells me that is the reality. Maybe I become a little too old picking up san (?) [0:26:51.4] or whatever. So that’s what it is. So when you’re looking from that angle that’s not the end of me. The day when I separate my me and my identity I still continue. Perhaps it’s the beginning rather than ending. So when, if I been told that I’m going to die within next four or five months or something, will I be worried? Of course I’ll be worried. Are you crazy? Not worrying? Yeah. I will be worried. No doubt about it. But will I be paralyzed and can’t move and can’t think and will I be under the complete control of my anger? No I will not be. I hope I will not be. I must share this with you. When Allen Ginsberg was told he’s going to die, by his doctor, I was in Mexico. In Cancun.

[0:28:22.5] So got telephone call, I picked it up the phone and it was Allen. So Allen has, if you know, he has a funny little, sort of system and character of his own. So he said, first I’d like to report. I said, what’s the matter, what’s report? So he won’t talk to me, he sort of goes on very seriously saying, I was sick and I went to the hospital and they checked me and then the doctors came back with a very gloomy face. So they told me I only have couple of months to live, four or five, he said, for to live, but judging from my own body condition I don’t think I have that, I’ll be lucky if I have a month or two. I don’t think I have two. If I have a month, I’ll be lucky. So that’s what he reported. And then this sort of official reporting business is over, then he began to say, boy, I thought if someone is going to tell me you’re going to die, I thought I’m going to hit the ceiling, but I’m happy today. He says, thanks to you. I said, did nothing. Why you talking about it? I didn’t even get it. He said, I would have hit the ceiling normally, but I’m very happy. So only thing what I have to do is conclude celebration of my life. That’s all I have left. So he really, he didn’t live even a month before that. I think about ten, fifteen days thereafter, that’s about it. But during that period, it’s all total celebration. Really. A celebration is going on, everything. A number of people know Allen Ginsberg, they have seen that. He did that. He knew he’s going. So he doesn’t have the additional worry of dying. He thinks about it, future life. He didn’t buy it, but he give the benefit of doubt. And from that angle he worked it.

[0:30:55.4] So my point here is life doesn’t end there. I think one has to be preparing. Preparation is important. But not getting angry, not getting so worried about it, so worked up. Preparation, yes. Wherever we go, whatever journey we take, we always has to prepare. Perhaps you’re thinking that preparation, he’s now going to tell me we have to be Buddhist. I’m not going to tell you that. Perhaps I’ll be the last person to tell you even though I’m supposed to be Buddhist lama. But I’ll be the last person to tell you that. The preparation, you know, Buddhism or no Buddhism, any -ism or no -ism, any religion or no religion, the principle of our human existence, the total existence, is really based on the good and bad. I’m sorry. The goodness that is kindness, love, compassion are goodness. Anger, hatred, jealousy, attachment are bad. Why? These are all emotions. Anger, jealousy, hatred, all of them are emotions. They’re negative emotions, they give you negative effect to the individual. The others give you a positive effect. Kindness, caring, loving, compassion, patience. Even faith, yes. Not necessarily blind faith, but intelligent faith. They are positive emotions. They give you a positive effect to the individual. This is what I’m talking about preparation. Since we have many more life to continue.

[0:34:08.3] For me, this body, what I have today is a rented apartment in New York City. As long as the circulation, the water running up and down is okay, as long as there’s enough digestive power, heat is okay, as long as there’s roof up here, it’s okay, I’ve been able to live in this. And when that becomes unserviceable, I have to look for new apartment. That is life, all about it. But on the other hand, that very life, rented apartment, is also a very precious, very important. It can give us whatever we want to do. We have the capability. It is the human capacity that gives us tremendous capability. Whatever we wanted to do, material benefit, spiritual benefit, any angle from anywhere, wherever you want to, you’re going to be this life is capable of delivering. So it is very important, and very precious. Although I talked to you earlier, rented apartment, you can have another one and all this looks like it’s not so important. That’s not true. It is absolutely important and very valuable, very precious. There are people who like to reject our own life. That’s wrong. We have to embrace our life because it’s capable, helpful. Tremendously helpful. Honestly speaking, bottom line, we as Buddhists we talk so much about the Buddha. Buddha does not have different life or body than what we have today. Though we see the pictures and images, some extra lump going here and extra this and that thing. I’m not very sure, this is two thousand five hundred years thing, you know, it might have gone a little bit taller and taller and taller.

[0:36:47.7] So you know. I mean I can’t believe if I see a Buddha today will have that extra, no. I mean there may be something little bit, you know, egg-shaped type of thing. Two thousand five hundred years people can do a little exaggerate here and there. But it’s same body. Same human body. Same capability. Wherever you look, great scientific achievements what we have today, same body, same people. Einstein might have little bigger brain than we do. Isn’t that they say something, little bigger in size? I don’t know how big it is, but same type. So this is the body we have capability. We also our bodies also have its own capacity to heal our self. Tremendous practice of healing practice in Tibetan Buddhist tradition. These are the mental body’s contribution to physical body. Basically what we do, our body is based, I mean, our life, the whole body is based on the four elements. The elements of earth, the water, fire, and air. If we look in our body, bones and flesh are all earth element. Liquids are water element. Heat and digestive powers are fire element. Circulation are all the air element. So these elements function equal level, we are well. When they’re upset, and then we get sick. Bottom line. That’s what it is.

[0:39:02.7] So on that basis, there are tremendous amount of healing. Healing practices. Rejuvenating earth element, water element, and all of those. There are a number of these things are called deity practice. Particularly through a White Tara. A very, very effective and helpful. With a personal experience I’m saying it. I’m not saying it because it was written in the books. I’m saying it with a personal experience, it been very helpful. There are variety of different healings. I mean you have so many of them. Even available in the United States today. So these are the, the body is capable of healing too. It really doesn’t have to die. But when it have to die, you have to die at that time you should be able to travel with well-prepared. Making sure the next identity we pick up will be the right one and good one.

[0:40:30.7] I’m hoping if I pick up next identity, I’ll be couple of inch taller than this. Okay, so I think I have to end somewhere because if I keep on talking and there’s no end to it so if you have any questions, it’s not that I have answers, but we can exchange some ideas. Thank you. (Applause) Yes sir? Audience: (Inaudible) [0:41:33.2] Rimpoche: Theoretically speaking, Buddhism does not accept soul. But, practical way to understand, yes. I will say consciousness is soul, but not a soul, the permanent soul, but an impermanent soul. Yes. And also, the funny thing is, what does consciousness do? What is a consciousness anyway? What is it? These are the big questions. And to me, consciousness is such, it’s provided basis for our emotions to function. The consciousness is the mental aspects of being which travels from life to life. Impermanent. Not a permanent continuation, but impermanent continuation. So normally I like the word continuation of discontinuity. The real job of consciousness is to provide the basis to function emotions. Also it provides to acknowledge the feelings, physical, mental feelings. It is the observer who observes. It’s the person who accepts all the messages that coming in from any of those ear, nose, body, whatever. I don’t know whether I answered your question or not. Yes sir?

[0:44:04.3] Male announcer: This ends side one. Please turn the cassette over here and play from this point to continue. Rimpoche: I don’t know about higher self. Yes, it is the spirit and it is me and me the continuing, me the here, me the person who will go to sleep, me the person who will get up. It’s me. I’m not sure whether it’s higher or not. I have difficult to accept it’s some kind of higher being named me. Thank you. Yes, lady over there? Audience: (Inaudible) [0:45:00.6] Rimpoche: This is another important question and very difficult to really say when, what happen. Actually I always like to look at it. I will say like you know I have a very funny way of looking different than perhaps many of you, perhaps not. I always like to look- you know you have those gene, genetic gene charts, right? Those what you call, those gene charts, what they call it? Those charts, and then I like to see the consciousness charts and when these two charts comes across, goes in, when this consciousness gene touch with the physical genes and that’s what we call it, a life. And when these two are separates, then we call it separation and the physical genes goes through one direction, like that of a parents and children and so and forth, mental genes goes different directions everywhere, and when they’re caught together we call it life. That’s what I like to look at it. I don’t know. I’m not good. I don’t even know how to draw a straight line so that makes me handicapped. And I don’t know when it’s happened. At the time of conception, time of birth, or all this, are big question.

[0:46:57.9] I don’t really care who says what, but I really wanted give idea. Idea that I can sort of present, I can accept, I can defend logically. Sorry, did I answer your question? I did not. Sorry. Didn’t you say when its begin? When is entered in? Audience: (Inaudible) [0:47:35.8] Rimpoche: The two identities will join together, and close to somewhere in conception. In that level it has to be somewhere around there. It has to be. Its two genes has to join together. What happens is the individual consciousness is running in the air looking for a new identity. When they find opportunity, the moment they find opportunity they accept new physical identity which is connecting with the physical gene. In that way, that’s what we call it life. It raises lot of other questions too. Especially with the genetic information available now, we can do all kind of thing with our original gene thing, which is great and wonderful. Great scientific development, no doubt about it. Very helpful, useful. Very happy to accept. At the same time, a lot of ethical questions will arise. We cannot and should not ignore those.

[0:49:13.4] Female Announcer: I don’t want to keep you talking and talking, I want to invite everyone on Friday afternoon where he’ll be grilled by Western MDs (Inaudible) [0:49:21.8] And hopefully we give you a few days to recover from your voice Rimpoche. I hate to do this to you but I think we should save some of his voice. Rimpoche: Thank you.