Archive Result

Title: Lam Rim

Teaching Date: 1994-11-22

Teacher Name: Gelek Rimpoche

Teaching Type: Tuesday Teaching

File Key: 19940719GRAALR/19941122GRLR.mp3

Location: Ann Arbor

Level 3: Advanced

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Audio file

19941122GRLR.mp3

Notations:

[…]: inaudible or could not hear it clearly

[???]: not sure what it means

[Tibetan]: Rinpoche was reading Tibetan

(…): response or question from the audience that is either inaudible or could not hear clearly

Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker 1

Before I go. We'll go through and a number of you people have come here for the full moon day, and did a number of Tara mantra. You can see there.

00:00:24 Speaker 1

The number what I have seen here is 216,181. Ah, that's very nice. Thank you.

00:00:38 Speaker 1

If you translate this 216181 into dollars. We do have a place for Jewel Heart. Ha ha.

00:00:54 Speaker 1

Anyway, I thank you for really doing that. I appreciate it.

00:01:00 Speaker 1

And I was also told that a number of you would like to do it continuously in the months.

00:01:08 Speaker 1

It's good to do it, but if you really want to do the Tara thing and I just thought of maybe there is Tara ritual called four mandala offerings. Something like that. You may do it. Very nice.

00:01:34 Speaker 1

[…] It is very good that you should do this mantra, and I agree that it is very good.

00:01:41 Speaker 1

And however, I don't want everybody in Jewel Heart turn out to be a bunch of people saying only mantras and I have to think and they're all very intelligent people.

00:01:53 Speaker 1

People were there.

00:01:54 Speaker 1

You know everybody is educated, intelligent, and you can really get into depth in the Buddhist message and Vajrayana essence.

00:02:05 Speaker 1

And rather than carrying more around and doing a monthly mantra type, you know.

00:02:15 Speaker 1

This is just a simple joke. I don't want to turn them into some sort of stupid corner village old guy who only takes a mala to say mantras, OK?

00:02:32 Speaker 1

OK, that's it.

00:02:34 Speaker 1

And I just wanted to share that with you, but.

00:02:38 Speaker 3

Yeah, fine.

00:02:43 Speaker 1

But I do see among the followers Tibetan Buddhism, not followers, people who are interested in the Tibetan Buddhist.

00:02:51 Speaker 1

A lot of them go around with mala and just keep on building up the numbers of mantra.

00:02:57 Speaker 1

And if you don't think that's not so much purpose. It is very good. It has so much benefit in all this. I'm not denying that at all. That's there for sure.

00:03:08 Speaker 1

However, you know, intelligent intellectual people should be able to understand deeper in their […].

00:03:16 Speaker 1

And this is secondary for people who don't have that intellectual capacity. They just rely on saying mantras and just go … bum, bum …, whatever it is, so that's what it is.

00:03:31 Speaker 1

Sometimes you have to play something to you […], so that's what it is.

00:03:36 Speaker 1

And but it's still if you want to do mantra, and not do anything else, then it's better for sure.

00:03:43 Speaker 1

But if we can do it something better, understanding.

00:03:47 Speaker 1

It depends on the understanding. The practice is based on understanding and then connecting it and then becoming of it.

00:03:57 Speaker 1

And that is the really and then affecting with the individual with their behavior and with their way of living and affecting that, that's what it is.

00:04:08 Speaker 1

And rather than sort of limiting yourself to certain points, so no.

00:04:21 Speaker 1

If I say too much, then it's not good, you know, so.

00:04:30 Speaker 1

I may be throwing stones, so I’d better not say more than that.

00:04:41 Speaker 1

You know the Tibetan Buddhism has a lot of room for everybody.

00:04:48 Speaker 1

There are rare intellectual people who can be a tremendous great learning intellectual thing.

00:04:56 Speaker 1

You have that […] and you have a middle level.

00:05:00 Speaker 1

You have a basic good understanding, good grasping of everything and then practice and the development underway.

00:05:09 Speaker 1

Aiming at that level all the time, so that is another category and then the secondary category who cannot do that at all.

00:05:20 Speaker 1

So, probably you ended up seeing 1,000,000 of this mantra, around 1,000,000 of that mantra and two million of that mantra.

00:05:27 Speaker 1

And 100,000 of these prostrations and 100,000 of mandala offering, and 100,000 of that. So it is simply that you have reduced yourself to the third category level where you stick to certain you know certain sort of thing.

00:05:45 Speaker 1

So, they're all there. And everybody will reach enlightening, whatever their manner you come and whatever suits you, you can take it, but the group here and I always looked at as an intelligent and intelligence group.

00:06:04 Speaker 1

And they have little more better capacity than that too.

00:06:09 Speaker 1

I'm not saying that your saying mantra, that's bad.

00:06:11 Speaker 1

I'm not saying that, but there are people who just trust that.

00:06:16 Speaker 1

And I don't know what kind of enlightenment they're going to get it, but they do get enlightenment for sure.

00:06:21 Speaker 1

But I don't know what kind, so that's that.

00:06:27 Speaker 1

Especially the Tsongkhapa’s tradition that gives you much more insights. So, I’d better keep my mouth shut before I throw a lot of stones anyway, so.

00:06:45 Speaker 1

OK, so I'll go back to wherever we are.

00:06:50 Speaker 1

Where are we? By the way.

00:06:57 Speaker 1

OK, where are we?

00:06:59

Here and Now, yeah. [Laughs]

00:07:06 Speaker 1

No no no no no no, the root text.

(….)

00:08:12 Speaker 1

As far as I was remembering, we've been talking about karma last week.

00:08:24 Speaker 1

Oh, that's that, right? We've been talking about the 10 non-virtues last time, right?

00:08:30 Speaker 1

So, did we cover all of them?

00:08:32 Speaker 1

I think we did.

00:08:34 Speaker 1

We did.

00:08:35 Speaker 1

And then, what does that say?

00:08:37 Speaker 1

Can I get that?

00:08:38 Speaker 1

No, I don't want that because I don't have my Tibetan textbooks.

00:08:42 Speaker 1

I somehow can't get it in the.

00:08:51 Speaker 1

From the translation I can't get onto Tibetan.

[Tibetan]

00:09:05 Speaker 1

OK, I think the understanding of white and black karma and that's where it depends, right?

00:09:14 Speaker 1

That's the end of the verse, right?

00:09:26 Speaker 1

The next is probable that dealing with the four noble truths, isn't it?

00:09:31 Speaker 1

Tony is that dealing with four ....

00:09:38 Speaker 1

The four powers of purification.

00:09:42 Speaker 1

That's right.

[Tibetan]

00:09:47 Speaker 1

What we talked about basic characteristic of karma is karma is definite, fast growing.

00:09:54 Speaker 1

One doesn't meet with karma which one has not created. One meets karma.

00:10:00 Speaker 1

Whatever time period, whatever it may take and you will definitely meet. That this basic characteristic of karma.

00:10:11 Speaker 1

Then we talk about the positive karma and the negative karma and how one makes out what becomes positive and what becomes negative.

00:10:22 Speaker 1

And I told you this story because […] Buddha died and the Buddha said [Tibetan].

00:10:32 Speaker 1

So, if it's getting close to the positive and it's going opposite of the negative, consider this as a positive.

00:10:40 Speaker 1

It is going more close to the negative and going against the positive ....

00:10:45 Speaker 1

These are the basic guidelines where you see. Really, you know if you don't know those things and we have no way of a holding which is good and which is bad sometimes.

00:10:58 Speaker 1

Sometimes people will say very difficult to find, which is positive, which is negative and the we will lose.

00:11:05 Speaker 1

It becomes very gray and we can't cut [???].

00:11:09 Speaker 1

So, these are the basic points we have raised and regarding karma. Karma is very important.

00:11:20 Speaker 1

And as I mentioned to you, every moment that we do.

00:11:24 Speaker 1

Every thought we generate every act we do.

00:11:31 Speaker 1

Whatever we do, it is karma.

00:11:37 Speaker 1

And also.

00:11:40 Speaker 1

Most important thing karma controls our lives.

00:11:47 Speaker 1

Our lives are very much controlled by Karma.

00:11:52 Speaker 1

That doesn't mean we cannot change it.

00:11:56 Speaker 1

We can change it.

00:11:59 Speaker 1

And then it means that if you can change it, what happens to the concept that karma is definite?

00:12:05 Speaker 1

There's nothing definite because you can change it.

00:12:08 Speaker 1

That's what I mentioned about what the Buddha said. When karma starts giving a result, you cannot reverse. That's what it really means by karma is definite.

00:12:23 Speaker 1

You can make it short term.

00:12:24 Speaker 1

You can go make it go faster.

00:12:26 Speaker 1

You can do all this, but it is definite.

00:12:31 Speaker 1

Our life is basically governed by our karma and who created our karma?

00:12:37 Speaker 1

We create it. That's how we are made responsible for ourselves.

00:12:44 Speaker 1

You know this is a big thing.

00:12:47 Speaker 1

It's a really big thing.

00:12:50 Speaker 1

It is not somebody who made it and they threw them at you and said take it. It is not.

00:12:58 Speaker 1

This is your own creation. The positiveness within our life is our creation and the negative within our life is our creation.

00:13:12 Speaker 1

Whether we are making ourselves better or we're making ourselves worse and that is also in our own hands, nobody else does.

00:13:26 Speaker 1

And that is basically how karmic principle works. So, I just wanted to give you a rough idea of what Buddha said about karma.

00:13:36 Speaker 1

If you want to know the details, you read those books. Basically, I wanted to give you that idea of karma.

00:13:47 Speaker 1

Negative side, positive side. We did not go into anything in detail. Like there's detail that you can go.

00:13:54 Speaker 1

Let's say karma of killing.

00:14:00 Speaker 1

OK and if you want to make it perfect, good killing karma, which is perfect negative karma.

00:14:12 Speaker 1

How can you create it?

00:14:14 Speaker 1

I will give you one example.

00:14:16 Speaker 1

How can you create a perfect killing karma?

00:14:24 Speaker 1

In order to make perfect killing karma, first you have to have a motivation of killing.

00:14:34 Speaker 1

Reason doesn't matter.

00:14:37 Speaker 1

Could it be?

00:14:39 Speaker 1

Reason doesn't matter, but you have a mind of a killing, motivation of killing and that makes motivation perfect.

00:14:49 Speaker 1

Then you have to have action.

00:14:52 Speaker 1

Action is the act of the actual killing.

00:14:58 Speaker 1

And then whether it’s going to be heavy or light killing karma, it depends on the act that you do.

00:15:08 Speaker 1

Let’s taken example, you know what the Tibetan lamas used to give an example.

00:15:15 Speaker 1

They used to give an example of ...

00:15:18 Speaker 1

Do you know what it is called, lice?

00:15:20 Speaker 1

Lice, you know that little thing?

00:15:23 Speaker 1

Maybe Tibetans have a lot of lice?

00:15:25 Speaker 1

I don't know.

00:15:28 Speaker 1

So, they don't take bath. Only once or twice in a year.

00:15:32 Speaker 1

So naturally you're bound to have it.

00:15:36 Speaker 1

So, what you do is if they give you and give you an example, and you've got a lot of issues here and there. Then and finally you've got hold of them. … I forgot, sorry it's not. The fly and what do you call that? [Audience: flea] That's right, a jumping one.

00:16:02 Speaker 1

So, actually you go to bed and you have a flea in your bed and you know just started getting irritated all the time.

00:16:11 Speaker 1

And like everyone to kick them out. And you go back to sleep again.

00:16:15 Speaker 1

You wake up and you get irritated.

00:16:18 Speaker 1

Finally, you cannot get help but get up and throw your coat out and get the torch light or whatever it is and search for the flea and get a hold of that fully and you've got it.

00:16:31 Speaker 1

And now this is the one that is giving me all the trouble over here. So, you're getting in here and rubbing it until you're fully satisfied. Keep on rubbing. You have given me, you know, three hours of disturbance in my sleep. Now you're going to go […] here, you know, that sort of thing.

00:16:58 Speaker 1

And yeah, really, and giving them and as a maximum torture you could in your hands, and finally and whatever that a little blood they have in there, you squeeze that out, and then blood goes out, right?

00:17:18 Speaker 1

So, you say. Now, OK, that is a perfect example of killing, small part.

00:17:27 Speaker 1

You've got a motivation of the killing.

00:17:30 Speaker 1

You got irritated anger that is so strong so that even they can take you off the sleep and get you over there and then give you anger and you're giving them torture as much as they could take it, and finally you are satisfied that a little blood comes out of that, and you are satisfied.

00:17:58 Speaker 1

And then you say, heh.

00:18:00 Speaker 1

So, you have the action of torturing, and then you have action of killing it and finally satisfying it which created a perfect karma of killing.

00:18:18 Speaker 1

Perfect motivation, action and satisfaction at the end. So, that makes it stronger.

00:18:28 Speaker 1

Get it? So, if you don’t have a motivation sort of accidentally stepped over an ant or something, you realize that the ant died.

00:18:40 Speaker 1

Oh, oh, I'm sorry, but you do have a killing karma.

00:18:44 Speaker 1

You don't have a motivation, and you don't have satisfaction. So, it is a weaker karma.

00:18:51 Speaker 1

Because everything is not complete. That is how it's becoming strong or becoming weak. It depends on the motivation, the action, the conclusion and how you take it.

00:19:09 Speaker 1

Get it? So, that's that is an example of the killing part of it.

00:19:15 Speaker 1

Same as lying.

00:19:17 Speaker 1

I wanted to cheat that person.

00:19:20 Speaker 1

I wanted cheat that person, the desire, and then goes around and around, like the used car sellers.

00:19:27 Speaker 1

You know blah, blah, blah.

00:19:30 Speaker 1

You know whatever you have to say, you know all this is a lower mileage and this is advantage. There's this. There's this, there's no rust. Whatever you have to say anyway, I don't think I can copy it well.

00:19:48 Speaker 1

Any sort of using all the trade techniques that you have and apply them to mislead individuals, whatever it is.

00:20:01 Speaker 1

And finally, when you sold your story when that person bought it and it was not true. I mean, that's the used car dealers can tell the truth as well.

00:20:11 Speaker 1

But with the desire of cheating, and finally the other person bought your story.

00:20:19 Speaker 1

And then you are finally satisfied whether they buy the car or not.

00:20:23 Speaker 1

When they bought your story at that time, you have completed your lying karma.

[Conversation with the audience]

00:20:44 Speaker 1

That's that.

00:20:50 Speaker 1

So, both of those are positive karmas.

00:20:56 Speaker 1

The positive also with the motivation of bodhi mind, and with the motivation of a compassion oriented, a love oriented.

00:21:11 Speaker 1

And would be really totally out there going for helping.

00:21:18 Speaker 1

And then taking difficult things within that in order to achieve whatever you have to take it.

00:21:27 Speaker 1

Whatever the difficulties you may have, you have the face facing them and finally making it done and with the rejoicing which is making it positive karma on the positive action.

00:21:44 Speaker 1

And our habit is such a thing that we are very easy to get satisfied within negativities. We're very hard to satisfy with the positiveness.

00:22:01 Speaker 1

You know, we get tired, we get over-burned. All these ideas have been burned out is actually negative effects influenced by our negative karmic result and not to complete. That's what it is, actually. That's what it is.

00:22:22 Speaker 1

So, what happened is even you don't have the enduring, you don't have the effort, you cannot put it on. Even if you have done that half-heartedly. You are satisfied, you are not satisfied. Anyway, good or bad with the difficult time to manage.

00:22:37 Speaker 1

All this will water down your positive karma in it, because of the satisfaction part is in order to say in rejoice, I could be able to do this instead of rejoicing.

00:22:53 Speaker 1

Well, it was a very hard time. Somehow, I managed. good or bad, harder maybe. This actually water down the positive karma that you have put it in.

00:23:05 Speaker 1

Because, you know, motivation, action, completion and at the end satisfaction. And weaken on this.

00:23:15 Speaker 1

We do that very often to ourselves. That is our habitual pattern. We are so used to it to do this. We are so used to it to do that.

00:23:34 Speaker 1

Our habits and patterns will make you do that and make it weaken our good karmas and make you rich in negative karmas because we're so used to it.

00:23:47 Speaker 1

Also another thing that I would like to share with you is not straightforward, not direct. You know, I mean you kill somebody, you pay by killing, losing your life.

00:23:59 Speaker 1

It's straightforward, but there's another thing called [Tibetan].

00:24:07 Speaker 1

Acting whatever you act. So, you are used to it. Acting you like to repeat that action.

00:24:15 Speaker 1

If you have committed a killing karma, as it [… ] you to bring you to closer to the killing and you will like killing.

00:24:26 Speaker 1

Some kids at a young age before they know anything. They only love to kill and you’d better watch.

00:24:36 Speaker 1

[Talking to an audience: And she's pulling all these things. You know, the other one fall on her head.]

00:24:53 Speaker 1

Before they know anything, they like to do certain things. They like to kill any creature that moves. They like to hit and kill, and that is the result of that karma.

00:25:09 Speaker 1

And the people who lie, the liars who would like to lie all the time.

00:25:13 Speaker 1

The killers who love to kill all the time. The thieves who love to steal all the time.

00:25:19 Speaker 1

Sometimes they can't even stop even when they know it is wrong. They cannot stop. You get addicted.

00:25:26 Speaker 1

These addictions are coming because of the karmic result of the action karmic result.

00:25:32 Speaker 1

OK, that's what it is, and that's considered even worse than that of actually paying a life for life.

00:25:43 Speaker 1

Than that of repeating it considered worse, more sort of harmful to the individual than actual killing itself.

00:25:57 Speaker 1

Because that brings you addiction and that makes you continuously create that and that is even considered more harmful to the individual than just losing a life.

00:26:18 Speaker 1

Get the idea?

00:26:20 Speaker 1

But that is the karmic part you have to recognize.

00:26:25 Speaker 1

Your habitual patterns and our usual way of functioning are built up there. All our addictions are built up over there.

00:26:38 Speaker 1

That's what it is.

00:26:41 Speaker 1

Like, if you're drinking one little thing nice, two little things nice, three little things, and so on. Then you get used to it.

00:26:53 Speaker 1

You take one, then you take two. You take two, then you take four. That's how it goes, right? We know that.

00:27:00 Speaker 1

That goes for everything if you let your mind goes for anger, you do that repeatedly.

00:27:07 Speaker 1

If you mind lets it go for hatred, you will do it repeatedly.

00:27:12 Speaker 1

That way if you mind lets it go for lust or attachment or whatever it is.

00:27:19 Speaker 1

You will repeat the same thing and if you don't have it for a while, you don't need it.

00:27:23 Speaker 1

And if you haven't, you need it immediately.

00:27:26 Speaker 1

You know, sort of.

00:27:27 Speaker 1

That is how addiction builds up.

00:27:30 Speaker 1

And that goes for every positive as well as negative.

00:27:35 Speaker 1

If you have a discipline and to your daily products to your daily functioning and you to your daily functioning.

00:27:43 Speaker 1

And then you will get the same thing.

00:27:45 Speaker 1

You get it at discipline and the longer you know, day after day, you can build on that.

00:27:52 Speaker 1

If you go in the opposite direction, day after day, you will build up that way too.

00:27:58 Speaker 1

That is how addictions work. So that's that.

00:28:06 Speaker 1

When you are looking at karma, you should not be looking at only the direct thing. But most importantly, how addictions have been brought into one's life, and that is called the action sin at .... I don't know, whatever, addicted karmic result or so I think that's what it is.

[Audience made a suggestion]

00:28:38 Speaker 1

Similar to 'cause, that's what it is.

00:28:40 Speaker 1

I don't know what this book tells you, but there must be some name for that.

00:28:47 Speaker 1

Common cause, yeah.

00:28:50 Speaker 1

Common cause and common action.

00:28:53 Speaker 1

Maybe they are using a common cause, yeah. So, the only thing they really truly think is whether you call it common or whatever they call it, but actually tells us how they bring up addictions.

00:29:06 Speaker 1

That is what it is.

00:29:09 Speaker 1

So, when you are looking at karma and don't look at the killing karma will pay with the killing.

00:29:16 Speaker 1

But more than that, killing karma will bring addiction.

00:29:22 Speaker 1

Bringing an individual closer to repeating the same thing.

00:29:27 Speaker 1

That is the same reason even in our normal society. The criminals have been locked in jail. I was so shocked the other day.

00:29:37 Speaker 1

Uh, there was a night life third couple talking inside the jail with a group of people. I'm sure a number of you have seen it. A lot of them turned training into punishing these people.

00:29:54 Speaker 1

I never thought the criminals being locked in a jail is to punish them.

00:30:04 Speaker 1

I thought that was done so that they won’t endanger the society.

00:30:12 Speaker 1

[Discussion with the audience]

00:30:13 Speaker 1

Yeah, but punishing is not a big thing, really.

00:30:18 Speaker 1

Big thing, you can't punish much in that way. Actually, it does more, to me, there's more sort of don't get bad influence in the society.

00:30:27 Speaker 1

Make the society say. But I look in that way. When they're talking about the punishment, I was a little uncomfortable.

00:30:38 Speaker 1

[Conversation with the audience] You know how, what and then the nice American jail.

00:30:43 Speaker 1

What a big punishment anyways.

00:31:01 Speaker 1

So, that's what I would like to talk about karma and I would like to open for questions.

00:31:09 Speaker 1

Scott, you've been raising hands there for a long time.

00:31:12 Speaker 5

In today's current.

00:31:17 Speaker 1

Yeah, sorry.

00:31:18 Speaker 5

I don't want to interrupt anything.

00:31:21 Speaker 5

But in the discussion of addiction in scientific terms of the scheme measures, it is said that a substance is addicting if it meets certain characteristics. One of which is that in order to get the satisfaction over repeated time, one has to have more of that substance to get the same reward.

00:31:46 Speaker 1

I don't have a quarrel with that.

00:31:49 Speaker 5

So, my question is, in the way that you are using the term addiction, does that happen also?

00:31:57 Speaker 1

I'm talking about the mental addiction. And in mental addiction sometimes you don't need the substance much or at all.

00:32:08 Speaker 1

The belonging, the desire, serves the purpose for that.

00:32:22 Speaker 1

To make it straightforward, the longing you know you have that and that is, you have this because the desire, desire you have that because of your action. That's what it is, yeah.

00:32:41 Speaker 1

You know, some people just pick up a weapon and shoot anyway, you know what to call it.

00:32:48 Speaker 1

There's something near me recently near Detroit.

00:32:52 Speaker 1

Anyway, so, they don't have any sort of particular motivation of a killing particular person or anything.

00:33:02 Speaker 1

It's just you have.

00:33:03 Speaker 1

There's a karmic thing there, and so that's [imitation of gun shooting] everywhere, that's what happened.

00:33:11 Speaker 1

Killers would like to kill, liars would like to lie, thieves would like to steal, not because of their profession, but because of the development of addiction.

00:33:30 Speaker 1

Yes, Lori.

00:33:32 Speaker 2

Last week we spoke about loopholes, karmic loopholes, and you said you would discuss that.

00:33:42 Speaker 1

I did, I said perfect karma, imperfect karma. Imperfect karma is a loophole.

00:33:49 Speaker 1

To weaken karma is, you know, you make a karma weaker by not completing those.

00:33:57 Speaker 1

And we have a habitual pattern to make the positive karmas weak and negative karmas stronger because we enjoy creating negative karma.

00:34:12 Speaker 1

We have a hard time creating the positive karma. That's the loophole.

00:34:18 Speaker 1

And there's lot of other loopholes there. A lot of those things.

00:34:23 Speaker 1

If you're thinking of stealing and you wanted to steal one shirt and it happens two shirts are together, whether you have two karmas of stealing or one karma. There're all these sort of funny little things, and that's not so much relevant. They're there, you know.

00:34:43 Speaker 1

And the loophole.

00:34:45 Speaker 1

But we can take advantage of the negative karmas. Even if we did [bad things], we do not satisfy ourselves. We then regret it. That will make the negative karma weaker.

00:35:04 Speaker 1

And if you purify, Oh yeah, I'm not going to take that anywhere.

00:35:10 Speaker 1

Sort of, you know.

00:35:13 Speaker 1

[Tibetan]

00:35:16 Speaker 1

There's an example of a piece of iron, whether it's flat or round, and all this sort of thing.

00:35:23 Speaker 1

I'm sure one would pick up that, so.

00:35:23

OK.

00:35:26 Speaker 1

I don't know why I'm taking away from there.

00:35:31 Speaker 1

So, that's what it is.

00:35:33 Speaker 1

That’s the loophole. I did talk about it today and I forgot that I told you about the loophole, but I did.

00:35:43 Speaker 1

So, any other questions, anybody, anything?

00:35:45 Speaker 1

Because I don't think I'm going to go beyond that today. Lori?

00:35:51 Speaker 6

A while ago, not recently. You had spoken about a kind of perfect timing that said, he went and looked at a lobster in a tank.

00:36:01 Speaker 1

Did I tell you that?

00:36:03 Speaker 2

There's a wild.

00:36:05 Speaker 6

If you looked at the lobster in the tank, and picked it up and said cook this lobster for me. And then you ate it. Is that some kind of karma ...

00:36:14 Speaker 1

Yeah, it's not so strong as this one.

00:36:19 Speaker 6

What if you had not actually looked at the lobster, and picked it. [Audience laughed]

00:36:26 Speaker 1

What I'm going to say it, you know, the interesting things.

00:36:37 Speaker 1

If you have a frozen lobster meat by somebody to cook a lobster soup or something, I don't think your karma of killing will be complete.

00:36:52 Speaker 1

But if you don't look in the tank or whether you look in the tank over there, you know it is a fresh lobster and moving, and I think you do have the perfect killing of karma.

00:37:08 Speaker 1

That doesn't have to deal with the look. You knew it.

00:37:11 Speaker 1

And it’s there, and that's going to happen.

00:37:15 Speaker 1

It might not happen right in front of you.

00:37:26 Speaker 1

These are the basic principles and basic structures, and you have the structure within you.

00:37:31 Speaker 1

Then there's all these different questions will come up, but you know the basic structure.

00:37:36 Speaker 1

So, then you know where to find what to do.

00:37:38 Speaker 1

I mean, that's exactly when you throw the lobster back and I did not know I had given you the lobster story before, but when you throw it back, I realized that sort of thing.

00:37:48 Speaker 1

If you have the basic principle and that's how you can really make the judgment and the whole thing.

00:37:57 Speaker 1

You have to have a basic structure. What makes it perfectly negative? What makes it perfectly positive?

00:38:04 Speaker 1

What are they? What motivation, action actually happened and the satisfaction?

00:38:10 Speaker 1

But now, even if you go in a little detail, I would say killing karma.

00:38:14 Speaker 1

When do you really get the killing karma?

00:38:17 Speaker 1

You really get the killing at a time when that being died.

00:38:22 Speaker 1

That is the same time and the moment that being died, you get the karma of the killing.

00:38:28 Speaker 1

However, that has been strengthened and made stronger by satisfying.

00:38:34 Speaker 1

If you regret and that karma is becoming weaker.

00:38:39 Speaker 1

First satisfied and then regret.

00:38:43 Speaker 1

I don't know what happens then I don't know.

00:38:46 Speaker 1

But first satisfying itself will probably make it stronger.

00:38:51 Speaker 1

Then the regret will depend on the actual purification, whatever you do. OK? Luis?

00:38:59 Speaker 7

Can you get killing karma if you're killing people in your mind and you're really enjoying.

00:39:09 Speaker 1

Sounds familiar.

00:39:12 Speaker 1

And I was joking.

00:39:14 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, you do get some negativity, but you don't get a killing karma because that person didn't die by your action.

00:39:24 Speaker 1

But if you are saying mantras for killing that person, then it does.

00:39:32 Speaker 1

OK, lady.

00:39:33 Speaker 2

Would you please talk about purification?

00:39:37 Speaker 1

The purification will be the next subject next week.

00:39:43 Speaker 1

I think it's following next week, right?

00:39:45 Speaker 1

The verses of purification, right?

00:39:47 Speaker 1

Yeah, so that will be here next Tuesday.

00:39:55 Speaker 1

Robert?

00:39:58 Speaker 7

Many years ago, when I was studying philosphy, there was a teaching that says there is a way that one could act without creating karma. One has to keep returning to samsara if […]. Is it possible to act without making karma? Is there a good karma that one has to come back […]?

00:40:32 Speaker 1

Let me try to get your question straight.

00:40:35 Speaker 7

Two questions, is there a way to act even for good that when one doesn't make contact with that one is karma free. Then one can interact in such a pure way that's kind of free? [???]

00:40:47 Speaker 1

Is there such a thing called karma free? To me, no.

00:40:54 Speaker 1

Even Buddha is full of positive karma.

00:40:59 Speaker 1

And Buddha is full of positive karma.

00:41:03 Speaker 1

And if Buddha doesn't have positive karma, we are in trouble. so very true.

00:41:09 Speaker 1

So, personally I will say no and there are people who say karma free.

00:41:18 Speaker 1

I do not know.

00:41:19 Speaker 1

But I personally will say no.

00:41:24 Speaker 1

Free of bad karma, yes.

00:41:27 Speaker 1

Free of good karma, yes.

00:41:31 Speaker 1

But not free of total karma. I will go for that.

00:41:40 Speaker 1

And the second part of your question is need not return, no return, or something like, right?

00:41:48 Speaker 7

Yeah, that one that one gets off the samsara […]

00:41:57 Speaker 1

I don't know.

00:42:00 Speaker 1

No, I do know something.

00:42:04 Speaker 3

Yeah, I don't know.

00:42:07 Speaker 1

I don't know.

00:42:12 Speaker 1

Thank you.

00:42:17 Speaker 1

I do know the sort of expression neither going, nor coming business.

00:42:24 Speaker 1

But I did not know what this getting old, or not getting old.

00:42:30 Speaker 1

Do you know anything or?

00:42:37 Speaker 1

Yeah, Gloria.

00:42:39 Speaker 1

It's about time.

00:42:42 Speaker 8

I just kind of go back to the lobster. The killing the lobster.

00:42:47 Speaker 1

Did you have a lobster dinner tonight? [Laughs]

00:43:03 Speaker 8

One of the things about the lobster is that you have to kill it before you eat it. […] Sometimes, you have to cook it before you kill it.

00:43:10 Speaker 5

You can't.

00:43:10

But so that's.

00:43:16 Speaker 1

Well, we've.

00:43:18 Speaker 1

There are cooks here. They know better. [Laughs]

00:43:32 Speaker 8

For my family, I ordered a fresh turkey. I believe it's already been killed. [Laughs]

00:43:49 Speaker 8

I know. Tt seems to me there's just only a slight difference the lobster in the tank, and order of the turkey that’s fresh and they raised it and killed it for you, or whatever. I know we're talking about little different degrees and shades of this, but it's still.

00:44:06 Speaker 1

You mean between lobster and turkey? [Laughs]

00:44:09 Speaker 8

We don't really have a difference in the consuming part of it. So, for me, I'm just not really clear about how there is a difference? I know there's a difference, but how is it different? I know I didn't pick it out from a tank or a group of birds that I saw or whatever, but I don't […]. I know it is for me. So how is that karma?

00:44:53 Speaker 1

Whoh, I don’t know.

[Recording stopped or muted.]

00:45:37 Speaker 1

Consuming. You said consuming.

Whether you eat or you don't eat doesn't matter.

00:45:42 Speaker 1

It doesn't matter you ordered it, so you get it so.

00:45:46 Speaker 1

Whether you eat it or throw it away.

00:45:50 Speaker 1

One minute.

00:45:52 Speaker 1

I mean this is this is interesting but as well as this is very close and Thanksgiving is in two days or something.

00:46:03 Speaker 1

So, I made this there and killing too. If you order it and on the basis of order they killed it, probably you have the killing karma, whether you know it or you don't know it.

00:46:16 Speaker 1

Ignorance is no excuse in the karmic rules. Really true.

00:46:21 Speaker 1

But do you have a perfect karma over killing?

00:46:24 Speaker 1

Probably not.

00:46:25 Speaker 1

You do not have a desire to kill.

00:46:28 Speaker 1

You have a demand to have a turkey, but you don't have a desire to kill.

00:46:38 Speaker 1

Or what is called before they get killed? Turkey? Even before? OK so? [Laughs]

00:46:49 Speaker 1

I'm sorry I'm thinking of pig and port.

00:46:53 Speaker 1

Yeah, that's true.

00:46:59 Speaker 1

So, you do have a desire of having a turkey for lunch or dinner, whatever it is, and so you ordered and turkey get killed.

00:47:17 Speaker 1

And you do have a karma over killing a turkey, whether it is the perfect completed karma of killing, probably not. Your mind is you just wanted to have a dinner of turkey on the table.

00:47:32 Speaker 1

You probably see it turkey on the table and I'm meeting your family.

00:47:37 Speaker 1

Happy with this, fulfilling the tradition.

00:47:40 Speaker 1

That's what you've been seeing it.

00:47:41 Speaker 1

You've not been seeing that I'm going to kill the bird wherever you go and you're not seeing that. You know what I mean, you know?

00:47:50 Speaker 1

You're not.

00:47:50 Speaker 1

You know the reason why you ordered this turkey is you just wanted to serve the turkey for the dinner, but your reason is not somebody chased the bird and kill it. You know, that's not the reason.

00:48:13 Speaker 1

Don’t say it is because you know it's not.

00:48:18 Speaker 1

So, the motivation part, it becomes weaker. The motivation part becomes weaker.

00:48:25 Speaker 1

Whether that's the lobster or whether that's a turkey, I don't think makes any difference at all.

00:48:31 Speaker 1

Now, part of your question is consuming. Consuming, I don't know whether there is any negativity. Probable or not.

00:48:41 Speaker 1

Whether you eat a turkey or you eat a lobster, you don't have any negativity for that.

00:48:46 Speaker 1

Eating of turkey meat or lobster meat, I don't think that is non-virtuous.

[Audience asked questions]

00:49:05 Speaker 3

Yeah, there's a mantra for everything.

00:49:17 Speaker 1

But I'm trying to tell you from the beginning, mantra is not an answer for us. Why you were not there earlier?

00:49:24 Speaker 3

Ha ha ha ha.

00:49:27 Speaker 1

Yeah, OK.

00:49:28 Speaker 1

So, I'm trying to tell you mantra is not for our problem.

00:49:34 Speaker 1

I was trying to tell you that.

00:49:36 Speaker 8

I know, but why would they?

00:49:39 Speaker 1

Just make it.

00:49:41 Speaker 1

To benefit the dead bird or done with this and that, and to have some kind of connection and to benefit somehow to channel certain positive karma to something.

00:49:51 Speaker 1

Connection is very, very important to karmic effect, you know, really true.

00:49:57 Speaker 1

It's very important. Connection.

00:49:59 Speaker 1

If there's no connection, you cannot help or how much, and if there's a connection there are always means of doing it.

00:50:09 Speaker 1

The connection is really, really one of the real keys in it.

00:50:15 Speaker 7

It seems like the 240.

00:50:16 Speaker 1

Oh, one minute.

00:50:17 Speaker 1

And let's jump start something, OK.

00:50:20 Speaker 7

In the turkey case, someone would say they ordered a frozen turkey or they went to a store and just picked the turkey out of the bin, how would that be different than ordering a fresh turkey?

00:50:35 Speaker 1

Uh, we're presuming she ordered fresh turkey and the guy who's ordering from the farm as of one.

00:50:43 Speaker 1