Archive Result

1010

Default Page Style; 1010

Soundfile 19980428GRJHNLOTF06

Speaker Gelek Rimpoche

Location Netherlands

Topic Odyssey to Freedom

Transcriber Christine Brennan

Date at which you finished the transcript

When he started giving he first initiation, it's for all of us compulsory, you have to go whether you liked it or not (laughs). It is the political and religious hand of Tibet, so you just have to go. Luckily, it happens to be a great one.

Now by telling that story, what I'm trying to establish to you is you have to choose your own guru. Nobody else can choose your guru. Gurus are not appointed, they are selected. Selected by you, not by the guru. I always tell you, sometimes people will say 'I am your guru,' if anybody tells you, I am your guru, just run away, five hundred miles without looking back, go! Then sometimes organizations like a dharma center, organizations they will say, so-and-so is your guru or this and that. That is also not good. The organization is an organization, it's like a Jewel Heart type of thing, it's sort of the organization is built me. Am I right or am I wrong? So if that is so, so whether the choice is whether you're in Jewel Heart or not in Jewel Heart, but that is the organization's function. That doesn't mean you have to follow it. You can run away five hundred miles, straight away (laughs).

0:03:41.0 Then there are certain organizations I have noticed, and they say well you took refuge here so you belong to us. I remind you, nobody belongs to anybody. Maybe you belong to your wife, but besides to that, nobody belongs to anybody. No one has any claim on you, guru or organization or group or whoever. So we have to really make it absolutely clear, first. If you want to pick a guru, it is you who are the only one who picks, nobody else.

So what are you picking? You're picking a connection, you're picking a source of information, you're picking guidance, you're picking a role model. So that's what it is. If you look in the Lam Rim books, they probably tell you eight benefits of this and that and advantages are these and disadvantages are these and there are lot of them there and I'm not going to speak to you about those, but I leave it up to you to do your own work.

0:06:17.9 Then the question comes, how do we select? It is not a job application, so you don't need recommendations. The moment you're putting in the recommendations, I've noticed recently, I went to California and one night I would give a teaching in the Sogyal Rimpoche's Rigpa center in California and they made a big public statement and in that there were two quotations from Allen Ginsburg and Philip Glass, so that is the credential (laughs). So the recommendation, we are not seeking a job, you don't need a recommendation.

So what are we talking about? I know, but where? Oh, there you go.

0:08:39.6 You have to study the individual. Traditionally Tibetan teachings will tell you whether you can eat that or not, then at least smell it. Whether you can wear that or not, just try to measure with your body a little bit. So if it's good and it fits you, then it's ok. Even if it's very good, Italian, what is that called, those model wools, Tuscany? Yes, is that Italian or Australian? Even if it's Tasmanian wool, worked in Italy, designed by Giorgio Armani, even then if it doesn't fit you, useless. So you have to find out whether it fits you or not. That I think is a very important point.

0:11:06.4 Then you also have to study what quality that individual has. If that person is compassionate enough. That person, is he or she a well behaving person or another crazy one? Did that person work with their negative emotions? Is that person too conservative? Too liberal? All of those, and will that person know how to handle my strong negative emotion that rises? Does that person have a true understanding and experience of the path that person is going to share with me? Is that a person who really, honestly teaches and shares on the basis of Buddha's personal experience in according to the lineage teachers way, or he'll be just simply making up stories and passing along times?

0:13:32.1 Can that person prove each and every statement that he or she made is correct according to the Buddha? Is he or she a stable person or crazy? Maybe heavily depressed or maybe too wild, crazy, gone. Can he or she teach me something, if there's nothing to teach then what to do? There's no job. If he or she can teach something. Can he or she present whatever the teaching is in according to what I can understand and accept? Does he or she have the art of presentation? Can he or she be willing to take a little hardship? You have to sit up there hour and hour, hours and hours, or will he go to sleep while talking. I'm just joking there, that is a joke.

0:15:40.3 So these are a few points for you to consider. If you look at it, in the Lama Chööpa it will tell you. There is a verse there that will tell you ten qualities of the Mahayana spiritual master and the ten plus ten for Vajrayana. So all of them are there, and I'm sure with the commentary you might have counted each and everything because ten plus ten, twenty. Twenty qualities and so accordingly you make your own judgment and the recommendation is a fifty percent discount.

0:17:11.8 Because you're never going to find somebody who exactly has all the qualities. Certain qualities you do not compromise. That's the quality and information and capabilities. The quality here is compassion. Information based on wisdom. Capable to be able to function as a role model, which means well behaved.

So these are the basis on which you can pick and make your decisions. It is important because it's a connection with the enlightened. I remember once I went to Ganchen Rinpoche's center in Milan, Milano, in Italy. Talking about Foundation of Perfections or something I did and I said the guru is the ambassador of enlightened society with the credential addressed to you.

0:20:00.3 When I got to Brazil there's a t-shirt that says guru is ambassador of enlightened. So I thought that was rather interesting and good. You're really looking at the representative of the enlightened beings. That's why the relationship becomes important. You call that devotion or whatever, but truly speaking it's a relationship. Maintaining good, pure, wonderful, respected, maybe not wonderful but pure, respected, close, honest relationship is necessary. Disrespectful means it might not make much difference to the guru itself but it effects all the enlightened society. It's like you know if you don't treat well to the ambassador of a country then actually you'll have a diplomatic disaster, right? That we know.

0:22:18.9 So devotion or no devotion, honesty, straightness, good relationship. Directly or indirectly, both are ok. Because you're not really seeking the individual human being too much, you're seeking the support beyond that. So recognizing spiritual master is not that important, as much as oh yeah, I have them here, I'm sorry. Recognizing spiritual master is gone, investigating the quality of the spiritual master is also gone, see, that's what happened. Reflect on the qualities of the student, so that is whether I'd like to behave this way or not. We're talking about the role model.

0:24:17.4 And I told you, cultivate a pure relationship. So good, we have come up to number seventeen.

Translator: What about the importance of the Sangha? You may feel connected to a teacher, but you may not feel at home at all in a certain group of people, a certain organization. He's not talking about Jewel Heart now but this happened to him in the past.

Rimpoche: Sangha is equally important. Sangha represents companionship. The sangha is the family member. Sangha helps each other for your path. It's very important, but not so important as much as a good guru is. The quality of the guru and the quality of the sangha differs. Sangha is companion, and not role model. Sangha can give you information, but it is different than information that you get through teachings.

0:26:30.8 We will talk during the refuge, but to tell you the thing, Buddha is treated like a doctor and dharma is treated like medicine and sangha is treated like one who takes care, either nurse or family or whoever is taking of that. So that is the quality that you seek.

Translator: So you cannot say that the sangha is a reflection of the guru? So the sangha makes certain mistakes or behaves not right, that's the guru's fault?

Rimpoche: No, maybe. Basically no. The sangha is the collection of the individuals and an individual will have their own behavior. Each and every one of them. They also have their own advantage, they all have their own disadvantage, and they bring them together. The beauty of it is you can sort it out.

0:28:45.8 I don't remember exactly, Allen Ginsburg used to have a poem called guru dead, no father dead. In that he says, teacher dead, your words are true. Sangha dead, we sort it out or we figure it out or something. What? We work it through, that's right. That's it. So you can work it out, work it through, because it is a collection of individuals so you can work it out. You can work through with it's own discipline and ways and means. In other words, is sangha necessary? Absolutely. Number one, it is a part of three refuge. So in other words you'd be left with only two refuge.

0:30:27.9 Number two, practically it is absolutely necessary. If you don't have anybody to talk to, to help you to what you want to do, what you need to do, you're not going to make any headway at all. Soon you'll drop out. So there's a lot of reasons, you yourself can think of a lot of them. Sot it is necessary and it is important and almost we cannot do without. Since you raised the sangha question I mention that, but it's not my [0:30:27.9 sounds funny] such to right here at least.

Ok, my subject is Guru, right now guru. Am I done? Devotion or no devotion, a pure relationship, that is very, very important. That doesn't mean you cannot contradict and you cannot express your opinion, you cannot say what you think loud. It's not. A lot of people will think that way, it's not true.

0:32:55.6 I just remembered an incident that Allen Ginsburg told me, when Chöögyam Trungpa Rinpoche was alive in Boulder, Colorado and they decided to buy them a huge building in downtown Boulder. It's a big building now that they designed. They're having a meeting discussing whether they should buy that building or not. So Allen said he was adamant not to buy that. So when he insisted Trungpa Rinpoche told him in the meeting, in public, stupid. So Allen said, person who is calling me stupid is the sign of the stupidity of Mukpo, Mukpo is Trungpa Rinpoche's family name.

Translator: What are you saying, again?

Rimpoche: So they're calling me stupid in public is the sign of Mukpo stupid (laughs). So somebody will call you stupid, you call them back stupid, so what? That doesn't break the relationship. That doesn't destroy the pure relationship. So the pure relationship is broken if you really wanted to harm, physically, mentally, emotionally, with hatred to the person and want to destroy them with harm. Then the pure relationship is no longer pure. That is the base and on that you can build whatever you can.

0:36:25.4 Ok, I think that is good enough, so we're on to number seventeen. Do we need question and answer or can I go through?

Translator: Who is right afterwards, Trungpa Rinpoche or Allen Ginsburg?

Rimpoche: I believe Trungpa was right, I think Ginsburg might be right too, you know? You know why? Because they both built their house and built their houses very useful for them, big, big, huge houses downtown. Allen told me he was wrong and he was wrong because he thought they could never pay for that house. So then what happened is, somebody who is attending their summer school wrote them a five million dollar check, so that is why. They don't know that five million is coming when they bought the house, so a lot of people went together, put their credit lines and all this and then some young lady who is sitting at the end incidentally comes up and wrote a check and says maybe this can help.

Audience: [0:38:41.2 off mic, cannot hear]

Rimpoche: [0:38:47.0] That's mine, yes. There you go [laughing]. Thank you.

Ok, now I think, thank you. I think we have to stop here, but if you think tonight and it's really bothering and difficulties with ideas then we can talk tomorrow. [recording stops ]

0:39:39.2 [Next recording starts] As we are looking here we sort of have a preliminary preparations for practice or training of mind for number one through number twelve. When I say number one through number twelve they are the preliminary, it does not mean it's not the actual part of it. It's definitely actual part of it, but still we call that a preliminary, but the actual practice begins at number one, not number twelve or thirteen.

0:41:06.0 At this level since we have been dealing with the Ganden Lha Gyema at this level if you look in the Foundation of Perfections, the first verse there says, why don't you read that in Dutch? Yes, first verse.

So it is important, that's why it is even called Buddhahood development. To understand it clearly, like we talked yesterday is it necessary or not necessary, if so what kind? All of them we talked. The one question we did not deal with yesterday and what about visions? What about visions? What about, what you call that? [0:42:37.7 can't understand] and all of those are another question completely from this.

0:43:19.5 So this is important questions, since we are touching the Guru subject we have to touch a little bit. Exactly personally, I don't know. I can only tell you what Buddha said and what the lineage teachers have said because I don't personally know. Many of the modem talking to you, is I'm talking to you because, I'm talking to you because I know it. So that's really why I'm talking to you. In these case, I don't know. But still what the Buddha said is, and what the lineage teachers have said is, and they say no you cannot.

The Guru must be, one must contract with the Guru, it must, it has to be a living person not some kind of spirit or somebody in 14th century, you know that type of thing. They said no and I don't know the reasons why they say no, number one. Number two, occasionally there are visions and these and that are also there too, so I'm sharing with you what is Buddha said and what the teaching tradition says, it must be living and I don't know the reasons. I mean I can guess, but I really don't know the reasons why.

0:45:59.7 [recording stops during translation then re-starts, both sections in Dutch]

0:46:23.4 On the other hand we talk about visions, on the other hand we look at historical points and this lama has taken teaching in terms of this and that you find they pop up here and there occasionally, so there is a general decision saying no, but then they always seems to be a little specific excuses or in these cases special. You know, seems to be things like that, that's why I don't know.

0:48:13.9 But one thing I do know clearly is, sometimes some people will think, all right I made my deal with the Buddha and screw you. That doesn't work. Right? That doesn't work. In a way Buddha and enlightened beings work for us, connecting with us is through a reasonable being, a reasonable person, a living person. It is much more solid and much more effective than that of visions or all that other type.

The moment you deal with visions, the moment you deal with the spirit, the moment you're dealing with these we have to take a fifty percent, at least a fifty percent off things due to our own psychological psychological emotional and maybe there is truth of twenty percent or fifty percent. If you have truth of forty, thirty percent, you're very lucky. If you have truth above fifty percent you're extremely lucky. So there's always that big question which comes in between and that's why.

0:51:09.5 Then you have another one there, what we call psychic or people who contact with different spirits and be delivering messages back and forth and all these are there. In that case, these people are not lying, they're telling the truth. What they perceive as truth. But what we don't know is whether it is exactly spirit who claims to be or not, it is a big question. You have to look in this way, when you are spirit you're beyond our law of physics. Many of them have unlimited access to any information. Many of them might have been there when this and that happened. Many of them will identify with the name and physical appearance of each individual. So then they can communicate with the family of those who knew who, who seek the communication. They come in and they tell you, this thing happened, that thing happened, this and that. Not lying, but that might not be the individual person you think you're contacting or spirit.

0:53:41.5 There is no way of confirming that. They will say, I am Paul, but which Paul? You don't know. So like that, like Maria, which Maria? So many of them here, so it's like that. It's true because that spirit may pick up a name and then I am Paul, that's fine because it's a label, right? Nothing is fixed and that's how it works. Well now I'm going to conclude this part in short. In short, recognize respectable reasonably good spiritual master.

0:55:00.3 When I say recognize I mean after investigating the quality and acknowledge this person as your spiritual master, that's what I'm referring to. One most important point here is whether would you like to reflect his or her qualities to you, that's important. In other words, would you like to behave or would you like to function, dealing with your problems, as that other person does. If that suits you then you’’ll reflect the quality is ok, if it doesn’’t suit you then reflecting the quality is not ok. That’’s what I mean reflect the quality of the student.

0:56:29.4 If you look here, it says reflect on the quality of this student, that is only one, that’’s me. All right? This student, rather than students. As we talked yesterday, cultivate a relationship, pure relationship. Pure relation, it’’s very important. If it’’s impure it’’s not right. There are a lot of things pure and impure in this materialistic samsaric world. Each and every one of us would like to have a very special relationship with your own guru or teacher. We all do.

0:58:22.3 We go out of our way to get that. So whatever it may take, and a lot of people do that. I don’’t know what to say. I think what I’’m thinking I shouldn’’t say, so that’’s why I don’’t know what to say. People sort of go completely out of the way, whatever means to get a preferential treatment. Whether it is sexual, financial any kind of [0:59:22.1 unclear] business, you know? [laughs] Even bowing down, even you know all sorts of things. And that’’s not good. Unless it is honestly straightforward from the bottom of your heart, no agenda involved, then it’’s fine, nothing is wrong. Otherwise, you are crafting the person. So instead of helping it could be harming.

1:00:48.2 Having said that, when the pure relation is really true, honestly seeking help from the enlightened beings through that person and that person, individual person, since we have a number of teachers here, that individual person also has to treat everybody the same. You cannot treat the right eye with the honorific quality che Tibetan. In Tibetan che is honorific, the left eye no honorific mig. So you know this is cheng and this is mig, you know right eye has the right side of the eye has honorific title and the left side of the eye has no honorific title, one can’’t do that. You understand? This is old Tibetan saying.

1:02:29.2 Then they also have a personal relationship which has nothing to do with, well I mean has something to do but from the eye, from the window of the individual teachers the personal relationship has nothing to do with your spiritual dealings. Above all, total dedication. Whether you’’re tired, sick, or whatever might be, whenever whatever needed is to be able to give it. To be given to such a way it will make sense to the individual rather than making a big presentation and went over head or talk about crazy things. If you have experience and understanding, it’’s great. If not, whatever you say you should have proof out of recognized authentic teachings.

1:04:40.6 It is also important to keep, you know stories as well as to the explanation everything whatever is related in what label, keep it there. Rather than picking this story try to fit down here and picking that story and try to fit up there, which sometimes become a disservice. No pride whatsoever. No hope of becoming popular, you know seeking popularity. If you notice that withing you, then it is disqualification that you have to correct yourself. Nobody else will correct you.

1:06:25.7 Then of course even the Tibetan Buddhism, it has it’’s own traditions. We have Sakya, we have Nyingma, we have Kagyu, even in Kagyu there are sixteen different Kagyus, and then even Sakya has three different Sakyas, even Nyingma also has two, [1:06:59.7 hard to understand] chengdra and votdra, Northern and Eastern. There’’s no division among the Gelupas, but each one of the monasteries have their own little traditions. They don’’t label it so far, now this is beginning to pop up, but so far there is no such a thing called a distinction among the Gelupas.

1:07:39.8 So if you are following a traditional teaching, and meditating and practicing and trying to help others, it is important you follow one tradition. There’’s nothing wrong with any tradition, they are all perfect, but it is not, in my opinion, it is not right when you try to pick up something from here, something from there, something from there, and then you can make a nice new age soup. I say this with great hesitation, because His Holiness and everybody is emphasizing that they all become oneness.

1:10:03.6 It is important for His Holiness to do that because the unity of Tibet is a total political basis on which you can fight independence. I mean you cannot fight, but you can hope to gain independence because if there is no unity, we have only like 100,000 Tibetans in our society outside Tibet right? There are 6,000,000 Tibetans in Tibet, there’’s maybe 100,000, 150,000, maybe 200,000 at most outside Tibet. So when there’’s 200,000 claims to be on behalf of 6,000,000 fighting for your own country’’s freedom, which is very difficulty. Truly speaking, it’’s very difficult. Look at the ratio, there’’s 6,000,000 here and here’’s 200,000, it’’s not only a minority, it’’s almost what? How many percent is it? 3%, that’’s not so bad, I thought maybe less than 1%, but if 3% try to act as representative of 97% of the total population you’’re not only fighting a reasonable society or nation, you’’re fighting against the upcoming economic power with communist ideological social system that can shut down anything any minute, it is very hard for the Dalai Lama.

1:13:22.8 That communist, that socialist is also not the good one we think of in Europe or America. Sometimes there’’s some socialist ideas and communist ideas, not bad, but that’’s not the one. This is the dictator type of communism rather than true socialist. Remember Mao? And Chow, and Deng? All of them, it’’s one person. The one person is the executive. One person is the legislator. Once person is the judicial chief. Whether it’’s Mao or Chow or Deng and now what is this name? Jiang Zemin, they’’re all like that.

1:14:41.0 It’’s not the usual nice idea of socialism, what you see in Sweden or thing like that. It’’s not, it’’s totally different than that. Anyway, having said that, and His Holiness has no other alternative. I mean three percent plus Dalai Lama, so he has no alternative unless you really become sort of oneness. And what alternative he has? Nothing, but he has to call for unity whatever it may take. So we must support that. We should definitely support.

Yet, whatever you’’re stating, whatever you’’re working, you have to work according to this because this is organized. There are steps, there is a way of looking or going up, or you’’re going down. Checking if you’’re making progress or you’’re not making progress. There’’s a framework here.

1:16:41.7 If you bring something from there, something from there, something from there, and then you try to put them in and then try to look in the framework, you’’re not going to get it. Tibetans have saying, funny things, you can neither get the cow dung from the other side of the hill nor you can maintain your own basket and after a little while you don’’t even have the rope to keep the basket together, it will all go. Did you get that?

Translator: Do I didn’’t get it

Rimpoche: You did not. Ok, it’’s a good old nomad’’s house, so what they do, they pick up the basket from here, go to the other here pick up cow dung? You know cow dung are the fuel in Tibet. So that’’s why they pick up all the cow dung and dry and burn it. So sometimes you can pick up your basket and go and get cow dung if it’’s good, but sometimes you can go there you cannot get any cow dung or anything else but by the time you come back you also forgot your basket over there. You not only don’’t have cow dung, but you lose your basket and then the rope which tied the basket together is also gone. In other words you’’re left with nothing at the end. I don’’t know whether you made it right or wrong. When you say that in English it doesn’’t make much sense, I’’m sorry.

1:19:32.0 That doesn’’t mean you cannot go and take this teaching from this person and cannot take teaching from this person. You can take it if you can maintain a pure relationship you can take it from anybody. However what you do, that makes a difference. But on the other hand, no matter wherever you look, at the Sakya, at the Nyingma, at the Gelupa, the Kagyu, wherever you look these type of Lam Rim type of practice, they all give you. If you look in Sakyas, they don’’t call it Lam Rim they call it [1:20:58.4 ] deng rim.

1:21:05.7 If you look in the Kagyu, the Jewel Ornament of Liberation by Gampopa it’’s one of the main principle texts of all Kagyu sects, all sixteen of them accept it, this important text. Which is nothing but Lam Rim, you can see them in English. If you look in the Nyingma, either the Kunzang Laméé Shyalung or all of those, if you look in there that’s very much Lam Rim, even though the Dzogchens will tell you, you just sit there and open your eyes and wait for the five daikinis appear and this and that and then the one [1:22:05.0 unclear] yet but in order to receive so they’ll take you completely down to the Lam Rim once again.

Tsongkhapa says here, it is the essence of all the teachings of the Buddha. Whether it is love compassion oriented or wisdom oriented. It is made easy to develop the result with the individual. Tsongkhapa did not make this easy. This system was seen and understood with Atisha’s way. Where did Atisha get this system? It’s the Vikramashila, one of the most important monastic learning centers ever existed in India, early part. There’s two, right? One is Nalanda, the other is Vikramashila.

1:24:30.6 You know two most important Buddhist learning centers until the Buddhism been destroyed completely in India by the Muslims, are these two Vikramashila and Nalanda. This is the place, this source, this is the, I hate to say university, but this is the real source. So Atisha’s style of bringing individual on the steps is the most accepted Indian early Indian way of bringing individual.

If I don’t say anything about the tradition, I may be failing for the tradition. So Tsongkhapa was very proud of this way. Tsongkhapa and the disciples very proud of this way, and they used to call it essence of essence of gold. Essence of essence, there’s no impure anything left, they used to say that. So the pure of the pure most. To be able to prove each and every one of them, to be able to prove with quotations and experience and statements of earlier teachers.

1:27:13.2 There organized in such a way that you can easily use it together or separately and any way the experience and gains will add up on the exact organized matter. This is the key which you can open the lock of treasure of Buddha’s experience. This is the paintbrush which you can pick up any paint you want to and make your drawings. This is the ocean which has collected all different types of pure rivers in it. These are the traditional way of talking.

1:28:39.5 If you don’t say it, sometimes it’s not good. If you say it too much, it becomes sectarian propaganda. So before it becomes that sectarian propaganda, I’d rather stop here. But on the other hand we have a responsibility. The responsibility particularly those who are leading the groups and all these people. We have a particular responsibility. That responsibility is to be able to deliver the goods to the people who you’re leading. Individuals have responsibility to be able to take it by you and make use of it improve yourself and these are the responsibilities.

1:30:14.2 Within that you will not function, you will not function like you’re leading a cult group. This is not a cult group. So don’t function like a cult. Even Tsongkhapa himself said, or Atisha, all of them says this is the ocean which has collected all the rivers coming from all different villages. Within your Guru or within your thing you will have good ones and bad ones, bound to have it if there are two people, at least even two people there will be good one and bad one. That does not necessarily mean one is good and one is bad, you turn around you know we always do that it is human nature. That’s not the point. The point really is the sincerity. Actually need of the individual and service that one would like to render. That must be pure and that’s how we proceed. Anyway, so we have mentioned the qualities of the spiritual master and then you have to know what are the qualities of the spiritual master and you try to gain all these qualities with you. The most important two words by Aisha, ran gyu ma [Tibetan quote, tape cuts out]