Archive Result

20081011GRGRwisdom4

Question and Answer Session:

Gelek Rimpoche : It was great to hear this wonderful teaching from HH Lochö Rimpoche today and translated by Geshe Lobsang Tendzin Negi. Geshe-la himself is a great scholar, very learned and he also has wonderful English. I have no idea for example how to translate into English words like dok pa.

Geshe Lobsang: That means "isolates" or "exlusion".

Gelek Rinpoche: So when he was translating I was anxiously watching and he came up with these terms. I have to learn these terms. I don't have much to add anything to (Lochö) Rimpoche's teachings, unless you have questions that you thought were not clear. I will be happy to discuss these.

At the same time those who are new to Jewel Heart need to be updated. It may be a little bit difficult to catch for you. So if you have any questions, please go ahead and with Geshe-la's help and the little that I know maybe we will be able to clarify it more.

Audience: This is about space being permanent. I thought Lochö Rimpoche said it somewhat differently than you did at other times.

Gelek Rinpoche: I think (Lochö) Rimpoche gave a perfect answer. He was kind enough to say this morning that whatever you are hearing from him is the same you are hearing from me. But I might have said something different at one time. Who knows. Wherever I open my mouth it is being recorded. So you did get a clear-cut answer this evening. What we think of space and is called in Tibetan nam kar and par nam. nam kar is space or sky and par nam is the space between. Within Buddhist terminology it is said that space is permanent. (Lochö )Rimpoche did give the explanation quite clearly in the afternoon.

Audience: What is the difference between things being impermanent and dependent arising?

Gelek Rinpoche: I think Geshe-la translated that in the afternoon. What I heard (Lochö) Rimpoche say was that being permanent does not necessarily have to remain long. Nor does remaining for a long time make something necessarily permanent. So I thought he gave very clear explanations.

Audience: What is the meaning of "phenomena"?

Gelek Rinpoche: the word in Tibetan is chö. That means dharma, but not in the sense of Buddha-Dharma but generally it means "existents". Geshe-la, do you have any more explanation?

Geshe Lobsang: In Buddhist philosophy, when you divide phenomena or existents or established phenomena, which are synonyms, the main point is that whatever exists is a phenomenon. Phenomena are divided into two: permanent and impermanent. While impermanent phenomena arise from causes and conditions permanent phenomena do not. Nonetheless, from the Middle Way Schools point of view, both are dependently originated or dependently established. So in that context dependent arising does not mean arising newly from causes and conditions but dependent origination applies not only to causal dependence but also to dependence on imputation.

Phenomena are imputed, dependent on the terms of designation and the thoughts that impute them. All phenomena exist in relation to the basis of designation, as Lochö Rimpoche explained. In that sense, space is also dependently originated. Space is understood as the mere negation or absence of obstrucibility and tangibility. If you walk into a wall it will obstruct you. It is tangible. But space, even the empty sphere that changes color depending on night and day (bu gar nam kar), in dependence on this the mere absence of obstrucibility and tangibility is designated. That part is permanent. Though it is impermanent, nonetheless it is dependently originated. It is not originated from causes and conditions, yet is a dependently existing phenomenon, depending on that empty sphere. Depending on this we can designate the lack of obstrucibility and tangibility.

All permanent phenomena in this way are also dependently originated, according to the Madhyamaka tradition. Then, because they are dependently originated, they are empty of intrinsic status. Therefore, there is nothing that exists intrinsically.

Audience: Is there a difference between the realization of emptiness and nirvana or are they one and the same? Is it possible to raise kundalini without having experienced nirvana or emptiness?

Geshe Lobsang: The realization of emptiness is necessary to attain nirvana. It is necessary not only for the attainment of buddhahood, but also for nirvana. That is according to the Madhaymaka Prasangika perspective that Je Tsong Khapa holds. Why is the realization of emptiness necessary to attain liberation or nirvana? Liberation is understood as the extinction of ignorance that grasps at or misconceives phenomena, instead of seeing them in their true, actual nature. When the mind that grasps at phenomena as having true, intrinsic or objective nature, that is misconception. We call it grasping at the self. That kind of misconception that is distorted with regard to the nature of reality is to be uprooted. The transcending of it is nirvana. To uproot the misconception that phenomena exist inherently one must cultivate the wisdom that understands that phenomena lack inherent existence. Existing inherently and not existing inherently are two opposing positions. Therefore the wisdom realizing emptiness is necessary to bring ignorance to an end.

Just merely cultivating the wisdom of emptiness itself is however not enough to attain nirvana. You can develop the realization of emptiness conceptually and then intensify it further until it becomes the direct perception or realization of emptiness, which is characterized by lacking the duality of subject and object. Through repeated meditation on emptiness, little by little the deep impressions or the conditioning for the misconception is eroded. When that is completely eradicated, the absence of that ignorance and the absence of the resulting negative emotions is nirvana.

Now, to the kundalini. I take it you are referring to Inner Heat. (tib: tummo). From the Buddhist point of view it is not necessary to have developed the realization of emptiness for the practice of Inner Heat yoga. You can find the Inner Heat Yoga also in systems other than Buddhist traditions, where the existence of an inherently existing self is maintained. The yogis or practitioners who are engaged in kundalini practice do develop inner heat.

What makes the Buddhist tantra unique is not so much the meditations on energies or winds per se, but pursuing those with the understanding of emptiness - varying degrees of the realization of emptiness - not necessarily only the Madhyamaka view on emptiness, but also the Chittamatrin view - and the practice of bodhicitta. The motivation for full enlightenment gives the practice a special characteristic.

Gelek Rinpoche: And I don't blame you. There are people who tell you: the moment you understood emptiness you have obtained enlightenment. That is not your fault....

Audience: I heard today that nirvana is permanent. But things can't arise without certain conditions being met. So, if conditions have to be there for nirvana to exist how can it be a permanent phenomena. And if those conditions erode, then how can it stay?

Geshe Lobsang: Excellent question and quite difficult. I don't know if my answer can be satisfactory. To a certain degree, when we study and maintain these positions, it is based on what is said in the texts.

There are two forms of negation: affirmative and non-affirmative. The non-affirmative negation is always taken as permanent in any situation. Nirvana is a non-affirming negation. It is simply the extinction of ignorance, the mere absence of ignorance. In the case of space, the mere lack of tangibilty and obstructibility, there are not a certain set of causes that create or produce that tangibilty and obstructibility. It is simply that the empty sphere of space (bu kar nam kar = bar nam) that can change from bright to dark, does have the lack of tangibilty and obstructibility. It is just there. So from that viewpoint it is said that this is not created by changing causes and conditions.

With regard to nirvana, it is simply the total extinction of afflicted emotions. It is true that this only comes into being when the afflictive emotions are negated but the extinction of afflictive emotions is not the cause for nirvana coming into being. The path that brings an end to afflictive emotion is also not a cause for that mere absence. The paths and realizations are what is tackling the afflictive emotions. The paths are the antidote that makes them weaker and eventually transforms them. But the absence that arises from that is not produced by the paths. The paths remove the afflictive emotions and the absence or negation is simultaneously there. That is why cessations are called drel te, separate effects. This is quite an elusive concept.

Audience: Is silence, the absence of sound, similar a non-affirming negation? Not produced, but permanent?

Geshe Lobsang: The literature on debates in philosophy it says: dra me pa - tak pa yin. The absence of sound is permanent. For that matter the non-existence of anything is permanent. But I don't know if you would call the silence permanent or not. Silence to me has a certain quality. It has a component of absence but also it has an experiential dimension.

Gelek Rinpoche: Silence may also change. So I don't know.

Audience: A particular tree has arisen and is therefore permanent. The idea "tree" is a concept that has dependently arisen, but it is permanent. Is that right?

Geshe Lobsang: That is an important question. This debate has actually been waged between the Samkhyas, the Numerists, and the Buddhists.

In epistomology you learn: how does a tree come to be a tree? Tree is a certain universal, like Plato's form or idea.

The Samkhyas say that there is something universal that pervades all trees. That is abstract and permanent. But the Buddhist logicians refute that you can have a universal "tree" that exists of its own and is substantially separated and different from the individual particulars. Such a point is logically inconsistent. To say that the idea of "tree" is there by itself, then nobody would be deprived of trees. If a hundred of us think "tree", then 100 trees should be right here. Through that Buddhists refute that there is no universal tree, only particulars. The particulars collectively can be referred to as tree, but removed from the particulars there is no general "tree".

How do we understand tree? Through exclusion of isolation (Skt: a-poha). Psychology has that understanding too. We understand things by way of certain features that are exclusive of other things. You can have a tree because of features that other things don't have. Thus you can develop the notion of tree. You don't need a universal to form the perception of tree. The knowledge depends on the particular features.

Audience: But the idea is unique to the perceiver too. Of hundred people in the room each has a different idea of tree. Isn't that permanent? Because it doesn't necessarily go through an evolution.

Geshe Lobsang: The tree as a universal is not accepted in Buddhism. But a conceptual thought of a tree is not an actual tree, but a meaning generality. In some cases people use the term "universal" for that also, but that is confusing because different people use it in different contexts. Not only the Samkyhas, but also the Vishekas, another Hindu tradition. So lets stick with "meaning generality". And that is indeed permanent, not impermanent.

Audience: Nirvana is said to be permanent. We have been ignorant from beginningless time. But what is the cause of that ignorance or why is that our original state of being?

Gelek Rinpoche: My understanding is that we cannot trace the time where we could say: this is the beginning of the individual. Then we cannot also not trace the beginning of ignorance. Probably that has been there all along. I am not saying that ignorance has no beginning and end, but still it will be very hard to trace its beginning. But we can definitely see the clearing of ignorance. When it is cleared you see that it comes from clearing obstacles. When you have no more obstacles you don't have anything blocking the understanding. I am not sure whether philosophically that is right or wrong.

Audience: I am still confused, but I can see that it may be impossible to trace the beginning.

Gelek Rinpoche: So why does that bother you?

Audience: It just seems odd that the original state should be deluded or impure.

Gelek Rinpoche: I see. If you think there is some kind of original sin we are carrying, probably not. It is not our nature. It definitely came in and is definitely going out.

Audience: When you have achieved cessation, is all that's left your buddha nature?

Gelek Rinpoche: I think that is going too far. That is not going to bother us much anyway.

Audience: Having a good intellectual understanding of dependent arising, one begins to meditate on it. Are there practices to increase the understanding of that in a non-formal setting, like when you look at someone sitting next to you and think how they exist?

Geshe Lobsang: Do you mean from the beginning, or having developed the understanding of emptiness? There is a saying in Tibetan:

A yogi who sees all the appearances as examples and indications of the dharma has an abundance of practical instructions.

So surely, without getting very intellectually analytical, there are examples one can bring to mind that show a lack of a fixed status of things. Buddha used examples in his teachings like the shooting star, like the optical illusion, like a magician's play, like a dew drop, like dreams, like a flash of lightning, etc. You can view all compounded things that way. I think these are powerful metaphors to remind us of things not being fixed in one absolute way, but they change and it is useful to see the discrepancy of what appear to us and what is objectively there.

The other part is that observation is helpful, like mindfulness. In the mindfulness tradition one observes one's thoughts, feelings, etc. That is not necessarily done in an intellectually-analytical way, but one simply pays attention to it. The nature of the thoughts and sensations is fluid and transitory. If one pays attention that reality can become obvious.

Those are probably some of the non-analytical ways to arrive at some degree of seeing the lack of solid, substantial nature of the phenomena. From the Gelug tradition comes a very unmistaken, accurate experience of emptiness. That does involve a certain amount of analysis. The presentation of the meditations on mahamudra by the First Panchen Lama offer two approaches: to approach meditation from the analysis or view or to approach the view, vision or understanding through meditation, meaning focussed meditation.

The approach the First Panchen Lama goes with is actually approaching the vision through the fixed meditation or shamata that observes the mind. Through shamata one recognizes the conventional nature of the mind, the luminosity and awareness. From there then the analysis of the actual genuine emptiness is approached. He cites Nagarjuna that way who says:

A person is not water, not earth, not fire, not wind, not consciousness and not other than all of these. Since that is the case, where is the person?

That kind of analysis would be very focused. Analysis is a must, because emptiness is a concealed, abstract phenomenon. By definition such an object must be understood through inference first, based on logical reasoning.

Gelek Rinpoche: I have nothing much to add but I can almost guarantee you that no one will find emptiness non-meditatively. Not only you are not going to discover emptiness non-meditatively, even meditatively, analytical as well as concentrated meditation combined together might also not be enough. You definitely need tremendous amounts of merit. The combination of all this together with purification plus effort plus the blessings of the lineage masters. All of that combined together one may be able to make it through. With so much effort and the combination of all these factors one may be able to find something. Other than that, simply just sitting and looking into the sky you can wait till the cows come home. I doubt very much that anything is going to happen. Sometimes it may not be that difficult. You can look at it, this thing happened, that thing happened, everything happened. Intelligent people probably see emptiness even before they develop bodhimind. All of those things may happen. That is all true and a fact. But on the other hand, trying to gain emptiness without all these things, it is never going to happen. Non-meditative development of the understand of emptiness is very difficult.

Not only emptiness, also compassion and bodhimind, are just not going to happen without putting in lots of efforts. Honestly, it is never going to happen. You can be a kind person, do the right thing, you can say compassion, compassion a million times. I don't think it is going to develop bodhimind. So both of these, compassion as well as wisdom, need effort. Theoretically there is the possibility to do without, yes. I don't know whether bodhimind can be developed without putting in efforts, but maybe, everything happens. But practically it is never going to happen. That is the bottom line.

One has to think about that. We always think of easy solutions, but probably there is none. If there were, Buddha would have shared it and every great master thereafter would have made it known as much as possible. That means it is not there. The whole idea of non-meditative development of wisdom and compassion is probably not possible.

You know the advertisement of the "Yellow Pages" book? They are trying to do a goose chase and find out it is better to look into the yellow pages. That is the answer for me.

Before I conclude, I want to say that Geshe-la is doing wonderful work. He himself is a great scholar and he also represents the whole Loseling in Atlanta, Georgia. He is a professor in Emery University. Geshe-la is doing wonderful work in Loseling and Emery combined. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has been there and he is doing great work. I am not going to say much because he is going to present and we look very much forward to that.

Geshe Lobsang: Thank you Rimpoche for giving this opportunity to share something about the work we are doing at Emery University in Atlanta. I won't take long - I have only an 8 minute presentation. His Holiness the Dalai Lama, in his most recent book, "The universe in a single atom", says that today in the first decade of the 21st century, science and spirituality have the potential to be closer than ever and to embark on a collaborative endeavor that has far reaching potential to help humanity and meet the challenges before us. Emery - Tibet partnership is not only about the convergence of science and spirituality. It is a very comprehensive program, with exchange students, exchange scholars like Lochö Rimpoche, who has been a distinguished professor in the past and Geshe Yeshe Thabkhe-la is going to be there in a few days as a distinguished visiting professor and will stay for five weeks to teach a class on mind and mental transformation. There are various other programs. The Buddhist study program is really strong.

One of the most recent and perhaps most important programs is what is called the Emory Science Initiative. It is there to develop a comprehensive program in modern sciences and implement it in the Tibetan monastic institutions as a core curriculum. That is what His Holiness the Dalai Lama wished for and has long wanted to see it happen. He truly believes that the convergence of science and the techniques and the knowledge in the inner sciences of the mind is so important for our present day situation of humanity. Modern science, needless to say has made tremendous advancements. The physical sciences, on the macro- as well as microcosmic levels have made break throughs, regarding the smallest particles and the cells and also on the genetic field. That is so important to find a way to harness the inherent properties for our well being and so forth.

There is a big part that has to do with training the mind, developing our inner perspectives, that is very important. Merely arranging the physical environment is not going to bring inner peace and happiness and joy. The inner resources we have in our mind, cultivating a good heart, mindfulness and so forth, these tools are so important. So how do we train this and bring it into the modern education? How do we instill this very knowledge in the modern world, so that we have a balanced education that educates both the heart and the intellect? That is such a necessary thing for the future. Many educators and others are recognizing that tremendous work has been done. In the scientific community is also a growing understanding of how contemplation can actually have an impact on our bodies, our health and well being.

The work of "Mind and Life" has been enormous in that area. In our own university we have been doing a study on compassion meditation. We have worked with our undergraduates and fresh men. My colleague Chuck Raisin who is a psychiatrist and experimental scientist and I have been doing this study for 2.5 years and our findings are coming out in P & E. It went on line a few days ago and the Times of India has picked it up and reported that compassion meditation has been found to be a stress buster. But really, it is quite effective, not in an elusive sense, but looking deep into the immune system. There are particular cells that seem to correlate with depression and other kinds of ailments. The compassion meditation seems to help reduce that. That is quite clearly shown by those who put time into this meditation: 5 hours a day over 6 months. They show a much lower level of the IL 6 (interlucent 6) than the control group.

That is not the only thing we have measured. We based our research also on questionnaires, measuring heart rate and so on. But this knowledge is just in its infancy. It is at the very initial level. It is growing very fast, but it is still in its infancy.

Teaching the science to Tibetan Buddhist monks and nuns is not simply that they would be missing the knowledge of the modern sciences. That is true, of course. But the long term goal is actually to prepare the monks and nun who train in the contemplative field to become literate in the scientific methodologies and concepts, so that they can actually collaborate with the scientists and help to understand this inner mind and particularly how to harness the qualities that are so important for our health and well being, whether it is mindfulness or compassion and so on. I am sure that before too long, wisdom will become the topic of research. At the moment that seems to be still a little far.

But if you look back a few decades only, what made meditation attractive in the scientific field was the basic TM meditation with Herbert Benson. That was easy. So now compassion meditation is becoming the focus of research. That is a little bit more complicated. But the Tibetan tradition has mapped it so beautifully and it is such a time-tested method that it is a living tradition. So many meditators are still there. So the wisdom will no doubt will come up as well. It is a huge field.

The Emory project of Science Initiative has become the subject of a book, both in English and Tibetan. We have produced 3 volumes, one about physics, one about neuro-science and one in biology. The first year course was offered to monks and nuns for one month. We left them with this book. The professors teaching them who used this book came back afterwards with some changes and additions. So now we are in the final stages to send it to Dharamsala, so that they can print it in actual book form.

Our project is aiming in the next five years to produce a curriculum, providing materials and teach each year two groups of monks and nuns. This year we had 33 monks and 38 nuns. Next year we are going to add another 60 or so, bringing it up to about 100. That will remain for the next five years. The curriculum will be developed and tested and after five years it will be available to be implemented at any monastery or nunnery that chooses to make it part of their academic program.

That is what I wanted to briefly share with you. When His Holiness the Dalai Lama accepted to be a distinguished professor at Emory University he was not an honorary, but a real professor. Emory has made a commitment to help His Holiness in developing and implementing this program. We did not realize how vast it is. There is an endless need. I wanted to share this to make you see the importance of our spiritual tradition, which is deeply based on reasoning, experience and contemplation. But also, if you have any ideas as to assist me in this project, I would like to show you my 8 minute presentation.

Playing an 8 minute video clip from Emory (ETSI)